Yes, It's Another 'single Black Woman' Thread.....

[Bunny77]

Thinking about the chick on the ABC video, she was talking about talking to a white dude at bar and he didn't ask for her number. So what? What was wrong with just talking to him using him as a flirting/socializing with a man experience and KIM. I just think we're way too literal and overanalytical at times. What men do, is how they feel.

Wow, finally, someone else says what I've been thinking and saying!!!!

Everyone got so caught up in that white dude story... saying she should have given him her number OR getting into the whole, "See, white dudes don't like black women and won't take them home to mama and this proves it!"

Geez louise, can't a man have a conversation with a woman in the bar and it just be a CONVERSATION???? The whole blogosphere is analyzing her story about why some random white dude didn't ask for her number and coming up with 50-11 scenarios or saying that WW would have gotten the number and that's why BW are single...

It was just a conversation. Leave it at that.

 

[gymfreak336]

Regarding the first question... but what happened? I think a lot of men of my father's generation (he's 66) are like him. So why are the educated 20-something black men who actually have never lived through Jim Crow, never had to worry about the Draft, never been flat-out legally denied access to things because they were black "not in that place?"

And why do black women seem to be able to overcome the effects of racism AND sexism a little better, including the sexism directed at them by their own men?

P.S. on that... I think my brother, who is in his mid-20s, has adapted my father's mindset. I've had some discussions with him about this to see if I'm missing anything -- since I'm not a black man -- and he is the same way. Probably because my dad never made it an "excuse" in our home.

Now, I agree that the home should be a refuge from the troubles of the outside world... but if black men want black women to understand this, black men also need to be more understanding of the sexism that black women face as well. It's not like black men are the only ones out here feeling the effects of the outside world.

Bunny, my father was like your father. One of the biggest issues that that people have gotten to reap the benefits of another generations hard work without fully understanding just what that involved. They however still want to be able to claim the same hang ups. People want to be Kings with no kingdom and that doesn't work. They don't understand all of the hows and whys so they don't appreciate it.

IMO much of this whole issue is a side effect of the transitions black people in this country have/are/need to be making. On one hand, we try to operate as a collective but on the other we don't. You can't have it both ways hence the source of many of our problems.

 

[JustKiya]

I do'nt think women take the time to befriend men. I think you should date with a mission in mind if marriage is what you want but what about going into a date with no expectation and just trying to socialize and get to a know a man?

I knew and still do know lots of men and what WE think men want vs what they REALLY want are polar opposites. I think it would behoove single women to befriend some men and really just get to know them. You will find they are very simple in fact, and it's not as serious as we make it out to be. I don't think it's luck or chance in meeting dateable men but if you dont' even befriend men initially you fail to find out how to date a man when you find one. I don't know if that makes sense. We over-analyze and over think.

Thinking about the chick on the ABC video, she was talking about talking to a white dude at bar and he didn't ask for her number. So what? What was wrong with just talking to him using him as a flirting/socializing with a man experience and KIM. I just think we're way too literal and overanalytical at times. What men do, is how they feel.

YES! I want to bold your whole post - exactly.

I'm still going through that 'Black Men and Marriage' googlefuu, and came across this one.....

The Benefits of Marriage for African-American Men

....finds overwhelming evidence that getting and staying married has a significant beneficial effect on black men’s well-being. Married black men have higher incomes and are less likely to experience poverty. They enjoy better physical and mental health than their unmarried counterparts, and are less likely to engage in unhealthy or antisocial behavior. Moreover, the benefits of marriage are transmitted from married parents to their sons, and these boys do better in life from childhood into adulthood.

What follows is a HUGE list of benefits to black men for being married......

Has anyone heard of the Institute for American Values? They seen to be all about the benefits of marriage...but for some reason, I'm suspicious.

 

[amara11]

My whole viewpoint is... if you carry yourself as an exceptional woman, despite what is said about you, you will prove yourself to be the exception to these rants and raves. I am an example of this. There are beautiful, slimmer, lighter, darker, healthier and prettier women with more to bring to the table (and this keeps in mind that perception is the true judge of this).... and I am happily married.

This reminds me of an excerpt from Pablo Neruda's poem "The Queen":

I have named you queen.
There are taller than you, taller.
There are purer than you, purer.
There are lovelier than you, lovelier.
But you are the queen.....​

Kinda true. BUT black woman have to play the game as well because we (as all individual blacks) are "representing an entire race of people" and we cant be upset or even express how we really feel about certain situations because we will automatically be seen as the ABW. Also, dont have child care issues or wear your hair a certain way or have interest and mannerisms that are not considered mainstream. We most certainly have to change up some things. ESPECIALLY if you are a higher up. Black women dont usually go to work blabbing all our business, and that can make us seem unfriendly and cold so we have to make up stuff or try to make ourselves more friendly for them. You know, most of us can go to work and not say a word and be ok about it, we dont have to be mad just focused on other things but it wont be seen as that. Lets keep it all the way treal.

I totally agree- and this is why I don't buy that argument that only black men face the repercussions of fulfilling other's prophecies. BW have to face a similar issue to BM in that regards. Having to make sure that they don't fit the expectation that others have. In committee meetings, team projects, debates, etc, we often have to be careful not to be to "expressively" passionate, lest it be read as "aggression" or "anger" further perpetuating the stigma.

I was following an online debate the other day, and a BW was making a point. The only thing about her points were that they were in opposition to what BM were saying. She disagreed, that was all. She had smiley's lol's and lmao's and yet their responses were "Why are you so angry?".

I was like

With all the information out regarding "what men/women want", why is it so hard for us to relate to one another?

IMO- What women want has only been a concern recently, evolving with the fruits of the feminist movement. Men are now more concerned (often having no other choice) with what will not only please themselves, but will also please women.

Men generally- want the same thing in a relationship. Women- totally do not. (Some want to SAHM, WAH, WOH, have kids, not have kids, etc) Again, I think this is largely due to the fact, that the freedom we now have to stake a claim for our own desires is relatively new. So we're still testing out this freedom (in a relative sense).

Since men are so simple- all the "different needs/wants" of women are confusing for them, so not only do they have to get women in a general sense, they have to understand the ones they are interested in as a future partner. A task that can be somewhat daunting (for both sexes).

All of these modern activist movements, have a period of reshuffling after them, where the different parties have to figure out their new roles and come to a new "steady-state". I feel like we are in that reshuffling period right now.

 

[Carolina Girl]

I knew and still do know lots of men and what WE think men want vs what they REALLY want are polar opposites.

I'd say 90% of the time, women listen but don't hear. We can change him, he doesn't really know what he wants

 

[gymfreak336]

This reminds me of an excerpt from Pablo Neruda's poem "The Queen":


I totally agree- and this is why I don't buy that argument that only black men face the repercussions of fulfilling other's prophecies. BW have to face a similar issue to BM in that regards. Having to make sure that they don't fit the expectation that others have. In committee meetings, team projects, debates, etc, we often have to be careful not to be to "expressively" passionate, lest it be read as "aggression" or "anger" further perpetuating the stigma.

I was following an online debate the other day, and a BW was making a point. The only thing about her points were that they were in opposition to what BM were saying. She disagreed, that was all. She had smiley's lol's and lmao's and yet their responses were "Why are you so angry?".

I was like



IMO- What women want has only been a concern recently, evolving with the fruits of the feminist movement. Men are now more concerned (often having no other choice) with what will not only please themselves, but will also please women.

Men generally- want the same thing in a relationship. Women- totally do not. (Some want to SAHM, WAH, WOH, have kids, not have kids, etc) Again, I think this is largely due to the fact, that the freedom we now have to stake a claim for our own desires is relatively new. So we're still testing out this freedom (in a relative sense).

Since men are so simple- all the "different needs/wants" of women are confusing for them, so not only do they have to get women in a general sense, they have to understand the ones they are interested in as a future partner. A task that can be somewhat daunting (for both sexes).

All of these modern activist movements, have a period of reshuffling after them, where the different parties have to figure out their new roles and come to a new "steady-state". I feel like we are in that reshuffling period right now.

My brother in law says this all of the time. He really has faith and confidence that some of the next generation won't go through this in the same way. I hope he is right.

 

[amara11]

Anybody googled percentages of unmarried/single black men lately?

Journalism math/statistics is also partly to blame for the fascination with this subject.

Seriously google Black men and see if most of those results aren't statistics for Black women and what percentage of them are single. It's like okay? Thats not what I asked for.

"Journalism" stats can be very sketchy, sensationalist, and myopic.

It would help to also have a better picture of what percentage of BM are single, but that info is clearly not as readily available. The way this story is spun, one would assume that BM are married in much greater #s. We know that's not the case.

I would appreciate some broader (preferably US Census bureau) stats on the percentages of BOTH BW and BM that are in jail, homosexual, etc in addition to percentages of BW and BM that are single (and viable candidates for marriage).

Lastly, BM are by and large marrying BW- so that paranoia about "our" men being "stolen" is unfounded.

Another point:
Someone asked why BM aren't getting married. I've often heard the argument about money, and mistrust.

I think that's semi-laughable b/c BW are out degreeing, out-performing, and out-earning these men on a general scale, and IMO have much more to lose if the rlp goes sour and there's no prenup. So I can't help but to chuckle when BM don't get married to protect their own pockets, but BW are told to settle for the pizza delivery guy therefore shouldering the financial burden. If that's not the cool whip calling the cloud white, IDK what is.

And don't get me started on the copper bearers swearing somebody is gold-digging on them. Get some gold first dude.

 

[Galadriel]

Just stating that I think a girl can have both ...sometimes we ladies can get caught up in either/or and it doesn't have to be that way.

Where did I say she COULDN'T sweets? I'll repeat this one more time....telling a woman that she should seek marriage IN LIEU of education isn't a winning proposition. Women can and should seek to find a balance that fits them.

There are NO guarantees in life for anything you do, people should understand that and make informed decisions hoping for the best.

 

[gymfreak336]

Anybody googled percentages of unmarried/single black men lately?

Journalism math/statistics is also partly to blame for the fascination with this subject.

Seriously google Black men and see if most of those results aren't statistics for Black women and what percentage of them are single. It's like okay? Thats not what I asked for.

"Journalism" stats can be very sketchy, sensationalist, and myopic.

It would help to also have a better picture of what percentage of BM are single, but that info is clearly not as readily available. The way this story is spun, one would assume that BM are married in much greater #s. We know that's not the case.

I would appreciate some broader (preferably US Census bureau) stats on the percentages of BOTH BW and BM that are in jail, homosexual, etc in addition to percentages of BW and BM that are single (and viable candidates for marriage).

Lastly, BM are by and large marrying BW- so that paranoia about "our" men being "stolen" is unfounded.

Another point:
Someone asked why BM aren't getting married. I've often heard the argument about money, and mistrust.

I think that's semi-laughable b/c BW are out degreeing, out-performing, and out-earning these men on a general scale, and IMO have much more to lose if the rlp goes sour and there's no prenup. So I can't help but to chuckle when BM don't get married to protect their own pockets, but BW are told to settle for the pizza delivery guy therefore shouldering the financial burden. If that's not the cool whip calling the cloud white, IDK what is.

And don't get me started on the copper bearers swearing somebody is gold-digging on them. Get some gold first dude.

THIS.....A friend of mine got pregnant from her boyfriend during her last year of graduate school. I remember the day she invited his mother up to tell her and the mom tried to suggest that she had "trapped" her po son. I was mid bite of my rice at Outback when this woman spazzed out and my friend quickly had to remind her that she was the one in graduate school and with the corporate job while her son was still trying to finish his last engineering BS classes. Girl, I fell out That was the end of that.

 

[paulina_grop]

Amara11 I think the difference in conversation might also be that do black men really want to get married anyway? You bring up a good point that the numbers for unmarried BM are high and may be similar to that of BW. I do also agree that journalistic sensation plays a role in what is being reported but it seems you do not even hear any chatter about black men worried about their statistic.I do not believe their low marriage rate is a "problem" from their perspective. If they wanted to get married they could that does not seem to be the same situation black women are in. Black men get everything they want without the responsibility of being married but it seems black women are at the mercy of men namely black ones. I cannot see what the journalist would report :"70% of Black men happy to get free sex and babies all without ever getting married, news at 11"? Black men get lots of negative press where it hurts and I don't believe them being unmarried in large numbers is their biggest worry. They also have lots of choice and can exercise whenever they just choose not to.

 

[Zaynab]

Wow, finally, someone else says what I've been thinking and saying!!!!

Everyone got so caught up in that white dude story... saying she should have given him her number OR getting into the whole, "See, white dudes don't like black women and won't take them home to mama and this proves it!"

Geez louise, can't a man have a conversation with a woman in the bar and it just be a CONVERSATION???? The whole blogosphere is analyzing her story about why some random white dude didn't ask for her number and coming up with 50-11 scenarios or saying that WW would have gotten the number and that's why BW are single...

It was just a conversation. Leave it at that.

Oh did you say that too? I missed it sorry but yea she was like "what happened" Hell,nothing that's what. All the ladies at the table were like "I know right" I'm like gees, do you all interact with men just because or rather, IF you do interact with a man are you always looking like some pathetic waif, ok you had a convo with a man, no big deal.

I don't get what's so hard to figure out about men, they show you what they want, they really do, we just don't take the hint. He wanted to talk and have a nice convo, so they did. He didn't want her number because he didn't ask. And it had nothing to do with her being a BW. *kanye shrug* sometimes its just not that serious.

 

[Mortons]

THIS.....A friend of mine got pregnant from her boyfriend during her last year of graduate school. I remember the day she invited his mother up to tell her and the mom tried to suggest that she had "trapped" her po son. I was mid bite of my rice at Outback when this woman spazzed out and my friend quickly had to remind her that she was the one in graduate school and with the corporate job while her son was still trying to finish his last engineering BS classes. Girl, I fell out That was the end of that.

Snap My line sisters future MIL got the mean cuss out because of this. She told my ls "yeah, everybody be wanting to trap my sons because they have good futures". My ls told her and I quote "Your son doesnt have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of unless you lend him the pot and let him open one of your windows".

 

[Zaynab]

I'd say 90% of the time, women listen but don't hear. We can change him, he doesn't really know what he wants

They don't say alot but the few key things they do say or DO, we ignore or try to read WAYYY more into that is necessary.

The thread in relationships comes to mind where the guy didn't buy a present, and I said well...because he didn't want to Nothing to analyze. So when a man does something it's up to you to recognize it or ignore and think "maybe he meant this".

 

[gymfreak336]

Snap My line sisters future MIL got the mean cuss out because of this. She told my ls "yeah, everybody be wanting to trap my sons because they have good futures". My ls told her and I quote "Your son doesnt have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of unless you lend him the pot and let him open one of your windows".

Well Dayum

 

[amara11]

Snap My line sisters future MIL got the mean cuss out because of this. She told my ls "yeah, everybody be wanting to trap my sons because they have good futures". My ls told her and I quote "Your son doesnt have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of unless you lend him the pot and let him open one of your windows".

 

[Detroit2Dallas]

Well Dayum

Man this is OT but that cake looks so GOOD! I really like when you post

 

[Bunny77]

Oh did you say that too? I missed it sorry but yea she was like "what happened" Hell,nothing that's what. All the ladies at the table were like "I know right" I'm like gees, do you all interact with men just because or rather, IF you do interact with a man are you always looking like some pathetic waif, ok you had a convo with a man, no big deal.

I don't get what's so hard to figure out about men, they show you what they want, they really do, we just don't take the hint. He wanted to talk and have a nice convo, so they did. He didn't want her number because he didn't ask. And it had nothing to do with her being a BW. *kanye shrug* sometimes its just not that serious.

Right... I mean, since I travel a lot, a lot of times, I'll go down to the bar to eat or have a drink just to have some company.

I've talked to all sorts of men at these bars... usually men on business trips. Most are married, some are single (at least not wearing rings), some are gay... the point is, we're both by ourselves away from home, so the idea of having a conversation with an attractive woman is very appealing.

And then after that, the straight ones can get up, say, "Nice to meet you. Good luck at your event tomorrow," go back to their hotel/drive home and see the wife and kids. Or call the girlfriend. Or go back to their hotel room and watch football. The end.

What I said in the other thread is that no one knew the status of that man. He could have been married for all we know. Or attached in some way to a girlfriend... or in and out of a relationship... whatever it was, he was only interested in a conversation at that time, but some women try to analyze any level of friendly behavior from a man and determine that it "means something."

Let's not forget too... it was a BAR!!!!! I really hope that women aren't getting their hopes up over dudes they meet at a bar or a club... geez.

 

[SleekandBouncy]

We have many people who are quick to jump into a convo to let it be known that there is no such thing as a Black community or that the Black community is not a monolithic group and yet on this topic during the myriad of discussions there seems to be an abundance of one size fit all answers to the problem.

I believe there is a Black community, but like all communities it has different facets. The stats we're discussing cover a cross section of Black women (and men) and therefore the problem which is already multifaceted becomes even more multifaceted. I believe all the factors commingle, but in different degrees dependent on what part of Black America you're looking at. I think to some extent (not here, in general) there is some piggyback going on or at least oversimplifying of the issue. Why Linda n'em are single is not necessarily the same reason, in the same way why Jana n'em are unmarried.

Slightly OT and probably less to do with the OP than I'd like, but I think Black people have become somewhat apathetic (in general) to the number of Black men AND women incarcerated. If not solved it will destroy a community in a myriad of ways including that those individuals will eventually be released back into the community and their absence creates structural voids. It's staggering the number of Black women in jail, but to stay on topic I'll put the focus on BM. Those are potential doctors, scientists, authors, and even hard working blue collar men. With a huge section of a community made ineligible in that way, forget marriage you're looking at innumerable consequences and snowballs consequences. I just wanted to mention that because I feel it relates in a myriad of ways to the Black family unit beyond the single BW stat and it makes me very sad.

 

[MissMeWithThatIsh]

I don't think it's as simple as that. These articles are apart of a cycle....a psychological warfare, if you will. There are women who feel this way and state it often enough in real life/on the net/etc and the articles act as "covering a story" of some "phenomena" happening in our society. It's a cycle, a very destructive one, IMHO.

If anything "creates" women like this, it's people in their families and social circles, IMHO. That's where people get their primary ideas of their worth and potential. Real life is alot more influential than the media, but some people use the media/net/etc to "confirm" their real life experiences. Bad cycle.

I agree with this idea as well... but I also think there are some impressionable people who absorb this as who they are supposed to be... whether the belief is counterintuitive to what they need to do or not.

 

[LoveisYou]

To me, a lot of the male/female guidebooks stuff can become 'baggage' in it's own manner. You get so bound up it what 'should be' or what 'the book said' you can't clearly relate to what 'is'.

I think that the guidebook stuff is useful - very useful - to winnow through the masses - I'm talking really superficially. But when it comes to actually knowing each other and what you need - you've got to go to the source.

Does that make sense?

Thanks! Makes perfect sense.

 

[Galadriel]

Snap My line sisters future MIL got the mean cuss out because of this. She told my ls "yeah, everybody be wanting to trap my sons because they have good futures". My ls told her and I quote "Your son doesnt have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of unless you lend him the pot and let him open one of your windows".

........

 

[Zaynab]

This reminds me of an excerpt from Pablo Neruda's poem "The Queen":


I totally agree- and this is why I don't buy that argument that only black men face the repercussions of fulfilling other's prophecies. BW have to face a similar issue to BM in that regards. Having to make sure that they don't fit the expectation that others have. In committee meetings, team projects, debates, etc, we often have to be careful not to be to "expressively" passionate, lest it be read as "aggression" or "anger" further perpetuating the stigma.

I was following an online debate the other day, and a BW was making a point. The only thing about her points were that they were in opposition to what BM were saying. She disagreed, that was all. She had smiley's lol's and lmao's and yet their responses were "Why are you so angry?".

I was like



IMO- What women want has only been a concern recently, evolving with the fruits of the feminist movement. Men are now more concerned (often having no other choice) with what will not only please themselves, but will also please women.

Men generally- want the same thing in a relationship. Women- totally do not. (Some want to SAHM, WAH, WOH, have kids, not have kids, etc) Again, I think this is largely due to the fact, that the freedom we now have to stake a claim for our own desires is relatively new. So we're still testing out this freedom (in a relative sense).

Since men are so simple- all the "different needs/wants" of women are confusing for them, so not only do they have to get women in a general sense, they have to understand the ones they are interested in as a future partner. A task that can be somewhat daunting (for both sexes).

All of these modern activist movements, have a period of reshuffling after them, where the different parties have to figure out their new roles and come to a new "steady-state". I feel like we are in that reshuffling period right now.

Love that poem

ITA with the bolded. I hope by the time my boys come of age,this reshuffling is over.

 

[Zaynab]

Right... I mean, since I travel a lot, a lot of times, I'll go down to the bar to eat or have a drink just to have some company.

I've talked to all sorts of men at these bars... usually men on business trips. Most are married, some are single (at least not wearing rings), some are gay... the point is, we're both by ourselves away from home, so the idea of having a conversation with an attractive woman is very appealing.

And then after that, the straight ones can get up, say, "Nice to meet you. Good luck at your event tomorrow," go back to their hotel/drive home and see the wife and kids. Or call the girlfriend. Or go back to their hotel room and watch football. The end.

What I said in the other thread is that no one knew the status of that man. He could have been married for all we know. Or attached in some way to a girlfriend... or in and out of a relationship... whatever it was, he was only interested in a conversation at that time, but some women try to analyze any level of friendly behavior from a man and determine that it "means something."

Let's not forget too... it was a BAR!!!!! I really hope that women aren't getting their hopes up over dudes they meet at a bar or a club... geez.

I often wonder if some women are as well socialized and traveled as they claim to be It seems like the more exposed you are to different situations, you would know what plain social interaction is.

@ the second bolded- It reminds of that scene in "he'sjust not that into you" when he tells what's-her pathetic-name- not to look at all men being friendly as a "sign" of something. It's just that being friendly.

One other thing I know that when you perfect this art of socializing with men, you become confident about talking to men and dating. I think it gives you an edge when you go on a first date and a man doesn't feel so examined or analyzed. When you keep it a casual social date with no expectations perhaps he's more open to dating again and seeing if something develops.

 

[SleekandBouncy]

I often wonder if some women are as well socialized and traveled as they claim to be It seems like the more exposed you are to different situations, you would know what plain social interaction is.

@ the second bolded- It reminds of that scene in "he'sjust not that into you" when he tells what's-her pathetic-name- not to look at all men being friendly as a "sign" of something. It's just that being friendly.

One other thing I know that when you perfect this art of socializing with men, you become confident about talking to men and dating. I think it gives you an edge when you go on a first date and a man doesn't feel so examined or analyzed. When you keep it a casual social date with no expectations perhaps he's more open to dating again and seeing if something develops.

Something else for women to remember esp. since I'm of the school of thought that's in between "not every friendly man wants you" and "he wants to boink you" since gender greatly influences even the most casual of male-female interactions, is that men often operate with a basic level of interest in regards to women. They are scavengers and opportunist, they like to guesstimate who is/isn't easy/their odds of getting nookie *if* they wanted (ego stroking)

In other words sure there may have been a little something extra behind that momentary interaction, but it may be passing interest. Where women sometimes go wrong is in overestimating the degree to which a man is interested, they either conclude that men are just like women so their friendliness is without artier motives or they conclude he wants to marry them on the spot.

So yes I do believe me being a woman and attractive influenced who said hello to me this morning, who went out of their way in some regard, who had extra incentive to strike up a "harmless" convo, etc., but I don't let it convince me that all interest is equal. Also, men like talking to women, sometimes it's just that.

 

[jamaraa]

I often wonder if some women are as well socialized and traveled as they claim to be It seems like the more exposed you are to different situations, you would know what plain social interaction is.

@ the second bolded- It reminds of that scene in "he'sjust not that into you" when he tells what's-her pathetic-name- not to look at all men being friendly as a "sign" of something. It's just that being friendly.

One other thing I know that when you perfect this art of socializing with men, you become confident about talking to men and dating. I think it gives you an edge when you go on a first date and a man doesn't feel so examined or analyzed. When you keep it a casual social date with no expectations perhaps he's more open to dating again and seeing if something develops.

The art of charm and flirting is one that many women seem to lack (sorry girls...had to say it ). Not every flirtation is about a "connection" but sometimes simple flirtation. There's tons of pleasure to be had in just plain interaction w/ nothing more than just that.

I think some women are simply used to men "coming on" to them and meaning what they mean . If you're used to a specific type of approach, you simply may miss more subtle approaches. Let's just say, different cultures have different "norms" in communications...even if said sistah is traveled, educated, and all that good stuff, that doesn't mean she's used to other approaches/male-female interactions.

 

[Serenity_Peace]

Always the black woman's fault, eh? When are we as a community going to hold our black men accountable? We make it far too easy for them! Teach them HOW TO BE MEN!!!!

Oh, well...

 

[jamaraa]

Wow, finally, someone else says what I've been thinking and saying!!!!

Everyone got so caught up in that white dude story... saying she should have given him her number OR getting into the whole, "See, white dudes don't like black women and won't take them home to mama and this proves it!"

Geez louise, can't a man have a conversation with a woman in the bar and it just be a CONVERSATION???? The whole blogosphere is analyzing her story about why some random white dude didn't ask for her number and coming up with 50-11 scenarios or saying that WW would have gotten the number and that's why BW are single...

It was just a conversation. Leave it at that.

JustKiya mentioned those "guidebooks" and I've thumbed thru a few just to see what they say. YIKES! Women (the ones most of this stuff is marketed to) are supposed to read "something" into everything a man does and behave in set 1-2-3 ways as a reaction to it as if all men are the same (or all women, for that matter). erplexed Those "Rules"/"Surrendered Single" type books have created an almost paranoia in some women about what's "right" and "wrong" in "reading" a man. Guys feel "head hunted" and women feel "desparate" reading that stuff. LOL...the Amazon reviews will curl your hair.

The fact that those women are using that TV piece as "proof" of anything shows how much "relationship experts" (how many of them are multi divorcees? ) and all these "rule books" are kinda killing it for so many folks. Of course, that ignores the WM/BW couples there are in real life. All these "studies" seem to be doing is teaching people to be presumptious and defensive even before they get started. I honestly wonder how anyone can find a mate these days w/ so much krappy "advice" out there?!

The art of conversation is seriously being lost, dare I say.

 

[kbragg]

Always the black woman's fault, eh? When are we as a community going to hold our black men accountable? We make it far too easy for them! Teach them HOW TO BE MEN!!!!

Oh, well...

But why? I mean we don't need a man anyway right cuz we're INDEPENDENT!

I don't have a problem being self sufficient but women go around sangin these dang anthems about needing a man and then wonder why they ain't got one

Sarcasm aside I agree with you If we stopped being so dang willing to play baby momma and name only wifey I think we'd see an increase in marriage numbers. Black men don't get married because there's not a real benefit to them. I mean if they can have kids, a woman to play wife, a hot meal, a bed to sleep in, booty at will, and the freedom to come and go as he pleases why the heck would he lock himself down with just one woman?

Black men need to step their game up seriously. I mean black women have 2 strikes against them from birth yet we came up so what's their excuse?

 

[jamaraa]

But why? I mean we don't need a man anyway right cuz we're INDEPENDENT!

I don't have a problem being self sufficient but women go around sangin these dang anthems about needing a man and then wonder why they ain't got one

Sarcasm aside I agree with you If we stopped being so dang willing to play baby momma and name only wifey I think we'd see an increase in marriage numbers. Black men don't get married because there's not a real benefit to them. I mean if they can have kids, a woman to play wife, a hot meal, a bed to sleep in, booty at will, and the freedom to come and go as he pleases why the heck would he lock himself down with just one woman?

Black men need to step their game up seriously. I mean black women have 2 strikes against them from birth yet we came up so what's their excuse?

This is just what I was talking about on selling yourself. Two strikes from birth? How defeatist is that?! BW constantly say things like this about themselves and other BW....not good, IMHO.

Actually the benefits of marriage to men in general (as opposed to women) are great...perhaps more for BM than men of other races even.....however, BM don't seem to feel they have an INCENTIVE to marry. Please don't act like BM are doing this because BW are sitting around singing song about being "independent". If this were the case, why is their marriage record so low w/ non BW?

Those songs came along after this issue began. LOL...Beyonce didn't cause this problem, she just talked about it...tho perhaps in not the most useful/productive way. Nobody blames country music for CAUSING probs w/ White folks, so why does music get drug out as a cause for Black folks' issues? Mehtinks the problems came 1st and then the songs about it!

 

[aribell]

Only the fundamentalists will still be getting married. That's actually scary on a couple of levels.

Slightly OT...sociologists have been commenting on this, saying that all the liberals are going to die out because they're the ones not having kids and not doing their 2-kid replacement duty. The conservatives are "being fruitful and multiplying."

Man, this. Co-freaking-sign.

All these threads about totem pole-ness, how we are viewed as the crap of the earth, and how we will never live up to the beauty of white women and others in the eyes of men...like Bunny said y'all can DEF. keep that "we" crap bc it sure doesn't include me, LOL.

ITA. Besides, I think that this "bottom of the totem pole" perception also reflects cultural isolation on the part of black women. It's so much easier to feel like the odd man out when you really don't feel like you connect with the people around you. I know that someone mentioned before that black women interact outside of their race more than black men, but that doesn't mean that black women are forming significant relationships (friendship or otherwise) from those interactions.

My mother has worked in corporate American for 25 years, talks to and works with white people all day long, has them as neighbors, at her children's school, etc. Nevertheless, for all that time spent, there is still a cultural divide. I can't say that there is one white person that she would consider even a good friend. I see it in the other black women she works with as well. It is very common. Now, they are of a different generation than myself, and are free to form relationships as they wish. However, you can see the same phenomenon on college campuses in the younger generation. But in the workplace and on campuses, there are those people that are able to somehow bridge that cultural gap so that they don't feel marginalized by their race. And those are the people that are going to be more likely to be able to make a genuine connection with someone of another race. They aren't going to be sitting on the sidelines feeling like no one must want them because they're not blonde or latina.

Also, for what it's worth, I've noticed that black men I've seen in white settings do a much better job (on average) of simply fitting in and connecting anyway, regardless of what type of setting they are in. They will make friends and connect no matter what--even if at the end of the day they go complain to their black friends and family about the struggles of being a black man and talk about how they're still "down." In my experience, it's always been black women who are more cliquish on the basis of race. It's not a criticism, just an observation that could point to why bw seem to have more difficulty with the whole interracial dating thing. If bw don't feel like they can genuinely connect with white men, or men of other backgrounds, then interracial dating is not going to be a viable option.