Yes, It's Another 'single Black Woman' Thread.....

[jamaraa]

nicola The socialogists apparently ASSUME that theses kids will share their parents' values! Strange assumption considering many people clearly DO NOT share their parents' values.

Yes interactions have differening levels of intimacy. If you merely share a workplace w/ people, that doesn't mean you are "interacting w/ them" in a social/cultural way. Workplaces are rather "neutral" grounds compared to other social venues.

I can't account for what you notice about BW vs BM in mixed settings tho I certainly see the same, but BM DO seem more open and confident about interacting w/ others. You hardly ever see BM criticize their looks or feel as if they are undesirable either. Perhaps it comes down to how BW and BM are raised? Maybe BW are raised to primarily socialize w/in the group whereas BM are expected to be able to interact outside of the BC for reasons of acquiring resources. One more issue in terms of IR specifically and interactions/friendships in general, the military is a primary place where people interact across the race lines. BM are quite likely to join the service...hence where many IRs originate. When BW are in the service the same is true I've found, many of them are more socially/culturally open than non military BW.

It's curious.

 

[SleekandBouncy]

While there is a self esteem/racial confidence aspect I think part of it quite simply is that the terms of interaction/inclusion is quite often predicated on one side (the Blacks and Browns) making the cultural concessions. In other words cultural neutrality is to be on the part of the Black person (woman) and their is the expectation of conformity, to a White defined standard, something that is harder for some BW more so than others, but in some form has an impact on most. That is overall not conducive to cross racial harmony. Also it's in some part it's sadly what all groups do which is stay within social circles that are self reflective, but of course this is only noted when BP do it.

White people living a world that's White by default so they don't have to worry about asking if it's a "Black" event, they can clique up (as many cultures/ethnicities) do without having to ever make that request, situations in which they are a minority are so few that of course it's not much of an issue.

With that said I do think BW/BP in general can work on playing the game in such a way that they get the best of both scenarios and I personally won't allow the above to hold me back from enjoying various social settings dictated by race.

 

[kbragg]

This is just what I was talking about on selling yourself. Two strikes from birth? How defeatist is that?! BW constantly say things like this about themselves and other BW....not good, IMHO.

Actually the benefits of marriage to men in general (as opposed to women) are great...perhaps more for BM than men of other races even.....however, BM don't seem to feel they have an INCENTIVE to marry. Please don't act like BM are doing this because BW are sitting around singing song about being "independent". If this were the case, why is their marriage record so low w/ non BW?

Those songs came along after this issue began. LOL...Beyonce didn't cause this problem, she just talked about it...tho perhaps in not the most useful/productive way. Nobody blames country music for CAUSING probs w/ White folks, so why does music get drug out as a cause for Black folks' issues? Mehtinks the problems came 1st and then the songs about it!

As far as the "2 strikes" comment, I don't mean we are doomed because of it, but rather than we can and have achieved in SPITE of it. One thing I will credit my teachers with is they would say "Now girls, you already have 2 strikes against you; you're black, and you're female. What that means is being average and just getting by isn't going to cut it. You need to be exceptional. Your very best." I am very thankful for those teachers because they instilled in me a Spirit of excellence that has stuck with me my entire life. I know our black male teachers said the same things to the boys, I just don't understood why we as black women have latched onto that attitude and our brother have not.

Beyonce IS the cause of all problems in the black community. She sends us mixed messages. First she says find a man who can pay your bills, bills, bills. Then she said be an independent woman and pay your own. She tells us to stay with a cheating man and ring the alarm and don't let another woman take him from you and all the things you have because of him. Then she said send him do da left to da left but make sure and leave the car and clothes and stuff we bought him. She tells us to make him put a ring on it, but then turns around and tells us to let random dudes in the club tape us on their video phone. And the worst offense of all....after all the empowering women songs and messages she marry's the most misogynistic man in the rap gameerplexed Beyonce has destroyed the black community and I think it's about time that we as women call her on it

Back to being serious Incentive is probably a better word If I was a black man though, and wasn't saved, and I could get all the sex I wanted, a hot meal and a warm bed every night, have children, and a woman who would stay by my side for 5 - 10 years without even the promise of marriage, just the hope that it may happen one day, who put up with my cheating ways and instead of fighting me went after my jump off, well shoot why would I get married? I have all the benefits of marriage without any of the responsibility and a line of women willing to replace my current wifey if she get's tired of me and decides to move on.

 

[LoveisYou]

As far as the "2 strikes" comment, I don't mean we are doomed because of it, but rather than we can and have achieved in SPITE of it. One thing I will credit my teachers with is they would say "Now girls, you already have 2 strikes against you; you're black, and you're female. What that means is being average and just getting by isn't going to cut it. You need to be exceptional. Your very best." I am very thankful for those teachers because they instilled in me a Spirit of excellence that has stuck with me my entire life. I know our black male teachers said the same things to the boys, I just don't understood why we as black women have latched onto that attitude and our brother have not.

Beyonce IS the cause of all problems in the black community. She sends us mixed messages. First she says find a man who can pay your bills, bills, bills. Then she said be an independent woman and pay your own. She tells us to stay with a cheating man and ring the alarm and don't let another woman take him from you and all the things you have because of him. Then she said send him do da left to da left but make sure and leave the car and clothes and stuff we bought him. She tells us to make him put a ring on it, but then turns around and tells us to let random dudes in the club tape us on their video phone. And the worst offense of all....after all the empowering women songs and messages she marry's the most misogynistic man in the rap gameerplexed Beyonce has destroyed the black community and I think it's about time that we as women call her on it

Back to being serious Incentive is probably a better word If I was a black man though, and wasn't saved, and I could get all the sex I wanted, a hot meal and a warm bed every night, have children, and a woman who would stay by my side for 5 - 10 years without even the promise of marriage, just the hope that it may happen one day, who put up with my cheating ways and instead of fighting me went after my jump off, well shoot why would I get married? I have all the benefits of marriage without any of the responsibility and a line of women willing to replace my current wifey if she get's tired of me and decides to move on.

lol, nevermind

 

[MissMeWithThatIsh]

Now it's Beyonce's fault?

And then y'all get mad when she says I am black culture ... lol( i know u kid)

 

[aribell]

nicola The socialogists apparently ASSUME that theses kids will share their parents' values! Strange assumption considering many people clearly DO NOT share their parents' values.

Yes interactions have differening levels of intimacy. If you merely share a workplace w/ people, that doesn't mean you are "interacting w/ them" in a social/cultural way. Workplaces are rather "neautral" grounds compared to other social venues.

I can't account for what you notice about BW vs BM in mixed settings, but BM do seem more open and confident about interacting w/ others. You hardly ever see BM criticize their looks or feel as if they are undesirable either. Perhaps it comes down to how BW and BM are raised? Maybe BW are raised to primarily socialize w/in the group whereas BM are expected to be able to interact outside of the BC for reasons of acquiring resources.

It's curious.

Funny thing about the bold, because I experienced exactly what you're talking about while canvassing for the Obama campaign. We had lists of people who had in some way indicated support for Obama and were going door to door to remind them to vote/see if they were still for Obama. Well...I can't tell you how many confused and/or angry middle aged Republican parents I encountered, as I was asking if their son or daughter was home. Basically, the college aged kids were pro-Obama, the parents clearly were not...and were not altogether happy about it.

I do think that we're at a point where very strong societal forces seem to be doing more to shape the thoughts and minds of young people than their parents are...unfortunately.


As far as the diff. b/w black men and black women in socializing, I guess men and women tend to be different in that women are simply more communal and so will seek that out. It could be that women--black, white or other--will always be more prone to seek out a comfortable group where they can belong.

 

[jamaraa]

While there is a self esteem/racial confidence aspect I think part of it quite simply is that the terms of interaction/inclusion is quite often predicated on one side (the Blacks and Browns) making the cultural concessions. In other words cultural neutrality is to be on the part of the Black person (woman) and their is the expectation of conformity, to a White defined standard, something that is harder for some BW more so than others, but in some form has an impact on most. That is overall not conducive to cross racial harmony.
White people living a world that's White by default so they don't have to worry about asking if it's a "Black" event, they can clique up (as many cultures/ethnicities) do without having to ever make that request, situations in which they are a minority are so few that of course it's not much of an issue.

With that said I do think BW/BP in general can work on playing the game in such a way that they get the best of both scenarios and I personally won't allow the above to hold me back from enjoying various social settings.

Why IS this harder for BW tho? One of the costs of doing biz being a minority in a majority society is the expectation of some conformity. Not fair, not right, but this fact exists not just for racial minorities, but religious, ethnic, etc.

 

[barbiesocialite]

Beyonce IS the cause of all problems in the black community. She sends us mixed messages. First she says find a man who can pay your bills, bills, bills. Then she said be an independent woman and pay your own. She tells us to stay with a cheating man and ring the alarm and don't let another woman take him from you and all the things you have because of him. Then she said send him do da left to da left but make sure and leave the car and clothes and stuff we bought him. She tells us to make him put a ring on it, but then turns around and tells us to let random dudes in the club tape us on their video phone. And the worst offense of all....after all the empowering women songs and messages she marry's the most misogynistic man in the rap gameerplexed Beyonce has destroyed the black community and I think it's about time that we as women call her on it

I agree and understand where you are coming from tho....

 

[kbragg]

Now it's Beyonce's fault?

And then y'all get mad when she says I am black culture ... lol( i know u kid)

She even admits it in song!!! When will we WAKE UP!?!?!

 

[LoveisYou]

It's easier for BM to bond with men of other races, because male bonding is different from female bonding. Sometimes all it takes is a can of beer and football for men to bond as buddies. Female bonding requires more depth, trust and emotion.

Confidence plays a part in black men's approach to women of other races. It seems that many black men believe that they are desired (at least sexually) by women of other races. Black women are more uncertain when it comes to their desirability. Afterall, we have a very troubled history with white men and are told that we're undesirable by the mainstream culture. The history and psychological conditioning shape how we react to people of other races.

 

[SleekandBouncy]

Why IS this harder for BW tho? One of the costs of doing biz being a minority in a majority society is the expectation of some conformity. Not fair, not right, but this fact exists not just for racial minorities, but religious, ethnic, etc.

Because for Black people there exists little validation elsewhere and active villainizing of that which is associated with "Blackness." For BW that problem is tenfold because they are both Black and women. The nuances that go into race-culture conformity can be quite different and/or more intensive than the examples you gave. If ppl feel that their race-culture AND gender is invalidated they are even more likely to stick to familiar social environments.

The history of race in this country makes it a much more complicated issue that I don't think is reasonably compared to the people hiding/conforming to religious or non-visually identifiable ethnic identities.

We pinpoint BW/BP keeping apart when really Whites (and increasingly more Asians) do the same thing. White ppl just don't have to actively do it because everything is largely White majority/defined/controlled. Any deviation from that is just temporary. We see White ppl with all White friends, organizations, etc. and that's just "normal" of course they don't have to question whether it's a Black thing The main difference is that Whites can afford to do that, Black ppl esp. professionals cannot. I do think it's important for BW to understand and utilize the power of cross racial socializing, but I understand why many don't.

 

[jamaraa]

Because for Black people there exists little validation elsewhere and active villainizing of that which is associated with "Blackness." For BW that problem is tenfold because they are both Black and women. The nuances that go into race-culture conformity can be quite different and/or more intensive than the examples you gave. If ppl feel that their race-culture AND gender is invalidated they are even more likely to stick to familiar social environments.

Also the history of race in this country makes it a much more complicated issue that I don't think is reasonably compared to the people being expected to hide/conform to religious or non-visually identifiable ethnic identities.

I also think we pinpoint BW/BP keeping to themselves apart when really Whites (and increasingly more Asians) are doing the same thing. White ppl just don't have to actively do it because everything is largely White majority/defined/controlled. Any deviation from that is just temporary. We see White ppl with all White friends, organizations, etc. and that's just "normal." The main difference is that Whites can afford to do that, Black ppl esp. professionals cannot. I do think it's important for BW to understand and utilize the power of cross racial socializing, but I understand why many don't.

I hear ya, but Blacks are always TOLD how "different" they are given their history in the US, but that doesn't deal w/ the realities of today. I sometimes think we overestimate how much history plays in the minds of non Blacks....Americans aren't known for being history buffs, ya know! Most of the negative stereotypes of Blacks are based in the present and immediate past, not in the antebellum period.

Native American Indians arguably have far more reason for complaint than almost everybody, yet Blacks are still the ones constantly saying this. A study of the overall historcial racial situation in the US, actually shows a more complex picture of how non Blacks and ethnic minorities got on and (in some cases) moved more to mainstream acceptance.

I wonder what "validation" many folks are seeking? I've never quite understood that part of it. I expect NOBODY to validate me or my culture, I do that for myself. If I waited on others, I'd be waiting until the moon turned blue.

Everything you said should actually be more applicable to BM given how BM are constantly villified in the media as criminals/problem people, yet this doesn't seem to be the case. In short, your argument would be more applicable to BM, yet it's BW who use this old standby.

At the bolded...clearly you aren't Muslim.

 

[Bunny77]

It's easier for BM to bond with men of other races, because male bonding is different from female bonding. Sometimes all it takes is a can of beer and football for men to bond as buddies. Female bonding requires more depth, trust and emotion.

Confidence plays a part in black men's approach to women of other races. It seems that many black men believe that they are desired (at least sexually) by women of other races. Black women are more uncertain when it comes to their desirability. Afterall, we have a very troubled history with white men and are told that we're undesirable by the mainstream culture. The history and psychological conditioning shape how we react to people of other races.

Agree wholeheartedly on the bolded.

My brother is a great example of this. I look at his Facebook page and he'll have photos of one party where everyone is black and he's having the time of his life. Then the next day, he'll go to a party and be the only black person there and still have the time of his life.

Where did he meet all these white people? (Who invite him to their weddings across the country, etc.) In college, he was a member of the student section for the basketball team and just got to know the other people (mostly white) in his section. These are the same dudes that invited him to their weddings years after college... and my brother will go too!

I have no idea how deep these friendships are, but all that matters is that they cared about the basketball team and that was enough. Some of them invited him on road trips to St. Louis or Indiana when the basketball team was in the Final Four.

Your second paragraph is telling so much truth I can't' say much more. I ain't NEVA heard a black man wonder if that white girl really likes him or if he should holla at the cute Filipina chick because she might not like black men. Please. They think EVERYBODY wants them. Now I know that women in general are more hung up on these issues, so it's not just a black woman issue, but the supposed "challenges" that BW talk about all the time or want to "address" when it comes to IR dating are simply non-existent when BM want to engage in IR dating.

 

[Detroit2Dallas]

Ok all you sleepless and single women, go check out the lhcf love connection thread, subscribe and add your additions if you have any and keep checking in as it gets updated regularly. Lets put something in motion, this should be fun if ladies arent just TALKING about being single an actually step out and meet some nice guys. Let's help each other ladies.

 

[jamaraa]

It's easier for BM to bond with men of other races, because male bonding is different from female bonding. Sometimes all it takes is a can of beer and football for men to bond as buddies. Female bonding requires more depth, trust and emotion.

Confidence plays a part in black men's approach to women of other races. It seems that many black men believe that they are desired (at least sexually) by women of other races. Black women are more uncertain when it comes to their desirability. Afterall, we have a very troubled history with white men and are told that we're undesirable by the mainstream culture. The history and psychological conditioning shape how we react to people of other races.

If anything, the "mainstream culture "is far more inclusive of BW...positively or negatively...than other women of color who are not Black or White. I'm not sure where this idea of "undesirablilty" comes from that's specific to BW. If anything, BW are overrepresented in the media vs our actual numbers in society. BW certainly seem to get more positive press than BM, so why is it that BW seem to have the lower self-esteem among the two groups?

Asian women are usually stereotyped as being the ones seeking approval and BW the ones as being confident, but I'm starting to wonder if that's reverse of reality?! erplexed Asian women hardly ever see themselves represented AT ALL and when they do, it's usually very stereotypical. Many resent the stereotypes, yet few seem to internalize those negative stereotypes of AW as applying to themselves.

 

[kbragg]

Agree wholeheartedly on the bolded.

My brother is a great example of this. I look at his Facebook page and he'll have photos of one party where everyone is black and he's having the time of his life. Then the next day, he'll go to a party and be the only black person there and still have the time of his life.

Where did he meet all these white people? (Who invite him to their weddings across the country, etc.) In college, he was a member of the student section for the basketball team and just got to know the other people (mostly white) in his section. These are the same dudes that invited him to their weddings years after college... and my brother will go too!

I have no idea how deep these friendships are, but all that matters is that they cared about the basketball team and that was enough. Some of them invited him on road trips to St. Louis or Indiana when the basketball team was in the Final Four.

Your second paragraph is telling so much truth I can't' say much more. I ain't NEVA heard a black man wonder if that white girl really likes him or if he should holla at the cute Filipina chick because she might not like black men. Please. They think EVERYBODY wants them. Now I know that women in general are more hung up on these issues, so it's not just a black woman issue, but the supposed "challenges" that BW talk about all the time or want to "address" when it comes to IR dating are simply non-existent when BM want to engage in IR dating.

Never underestimate the power of Sports with men. It's a bond like no other. Heck Nelson Mandela used Sports to unite a whole frickin country

Yes black men do think everyone wants them, even the ugly ones This is all due to the myth of the giant black diamond studded peen. In reality, most peens are around the same size. Now tall skinny guys with big feet ears and hands.....this is where the giant peens lie in all races. Giant peen is over rated IME

 

[jamaraa]

Agree wholeheartedly on the bolded.

My brother is a great example of this. I look at his Facebook page and he'll have photos of one party where everyone is black and he's having the time of his life. Then the next day, he'll go to a party and be the only black person there and still have the time of his life.

Where did he meet all these white people? (Who invite him to their weddings across the country, etc.) In college, he was a member of the student section for the basketball team and just got to know the other people (mostly white) in his section. These are the same dudes that invited him to their weddings years after college... and my brother will go too!

I have no idea how deep these friendships are, but all that matters is that they cared about the basketball team and that was enough. Some of them invited him on road trips to St. Louis or Indiana when the basketball team was in the Final Four.

Your second paragraph is telling so much truth I can't' say much more. I ain't NEVA heard a black man wonder if that white girl really likes him or if he should holla at the cute Filipina chick because she might not like black men. Please. They think EVERYBODY wants them. Now I know that women in general are more hung up on these issues, so it's not just a black woman issue, but the supposed "challenges" that BW talk about all the time or want to "address" when it comes to IR dating are simply non-existent when BM want to engage in IR dating.

This is all very true. I never see BM worrying about these things online or in real life.

This all leads me back to the issue of socialization and cultural isolation. Given that BM and BW both labor under terrible stereotypes (BM arguably worse), the difference in the level of confidence is quite astounding. Of course, male privilege pays a HUGE role here, but I'm starting to wornder if some BW are being socialized to specifically "keep the home fires buring" and internalizing it while BM and others simply reject any such training they may get?!

There seems to be a passive-aggressive anger from BW on the matter....they feel left out so they sit out in protest? Instead of questioning the socalization, they masochistically hold on to it even when/or especially when they see BM reject it? I'm far less into "the media" as the main issue and more in what's going on in the BC at large. Are BW supposed to be the "keepers of the flame" even at the cost of their well-being and personal happiness? There seems a BROAD streak of this mentality out there......what else can really get at this NEED to see yourself as "undesirable"?

 

[SleekandBouncy]

I hear ya, but Blacks are always TOLD how "different" they are given their history in the US, but that doesn't deal w/ the realities of today. Native American Indians arguiably have far more reason for complaint, yet Blacks are still the ones constantly saying this. A study of the overall historcial racial situation in the US, actually shows a more complex picture of how non Blacks and ethnic minorities got on and (in some cases) moved more to mainstream acceptance.

I wonder what "validation" many folks are seeking? I've never quite understood that part of it. I expect NOBODY to validate me or my culture, I do that for myself. If I waited on others, I'd be waiting until the moon turned blue.

Everything you said should actually be more applicable to BM given how BM are constantly villified in the media as criminals/problems people, yet this doesn't seem to be the case.

At the bolded...clearly you aren't Muslim.

Hmmm....
It's not simply lack of validation, though that alone is an issue. Most Black people see that "Blackness" is in general invalidated. In other words things that are associated with Black people/Black culture are generally given little/zero consideration; lack of media representation, historical Black figures excluded from school books, creations of Black/AA culture "white washed" before found acceptable and rarely credited back to Blacks, etc.. This would obviously make a group feel invalidated and marginalized.

Why Native Americans sooner gained acceptance would be too long to explain, but suffice it to say it's not entirely comparable.

I also said it's not limited to validation, but rather active villinization from skin tone, hair types, body types, styles of speech/dress, historical origin (Africa land of savages or at best starving marvins), to the innocuous ways in which small things associated with Black ppl/non-Whites are viewed suspiciously or negatively.

So I stand my original statement. I understand why BP esp. BW self segregate because of the nature of the conformity expected.
Do I think it's a smart? No, but I understand it. I also find it peculiar that this mono-racial socializing is all low self esteem for BW, but "normal" when Whites and others do it.
When they don't explicitly ask about the racial nature of an event, org, have one Black friend it's noteworthy when in reality of course a majority group is not racially aware in the same way.

 

[kbragg]

If anything, the "mainstream culture "is far more inclusive of BW...positively or negatively...than other women of color who are not Black or White. I'm not sure where this idea of "undesirablilty" comes from that's specific to BW. If anything, BW are overrepresented in the media vs our actual numbers in society. BW certainly seem to get more positive press than BM, so why is it that BW seem to have the lower self-esteem among the two groups?

Asian women are usually stereotyped as being the ones seeking approval and BW the ones as being confident, but I'm starting to wonder if that's reverse of reality?! erplexed Asian women hardly ever see themselves represented AT ALL and when they do, it's usually very stereotypical. Many resent the stereotypes, yet few seem to internalize those negative stereotypes of AW as applying to themselves.

Ok Ima get labeled a black man basher but this whole black women aren't desirable thing came from BLACK men and I've only ever heard BLACK MEN say it. White men have always been attracted to black women and I don't mean the rapist slave masters either. And I don't mean the fetish seekers either. They just don't see us as approachable. Not because of the ABW stereotype but because we totally miss their signals. They're not even on our radar.

Plus if we even show an interest in a white male the comments from black men come. "What a white boy gone do for you?" "Oh you just tryna get that money." "You know he can't work it right." Then the comments from black women come "Oh he only wants you for sex cuz he got a video girl fantasy." "He won't take you home to momma." "You won't fit into the 'white world."

It's wild really. I mean the Serena William ESPN issue was their best selling for a reason.

 

[jamaraa]

Hmmm....
It's not simply lack of validation, though that alone is an issue. Most Black people can look around and see that "Blackness" is in general invalidated. In other words things that are associated with Black people/Black culture are generally given little/zero consideration; lack of media representation, historical Black figures excluded from school books, creations of Black/AA culture "white washed" before found acceptable and rarely credited back to Blacks, etc.. This would obviously make a group feel invalidated and marginalized.

Why Native Americans sooner gained acceptance would be too long to explain, but suffice it to say it's not entirely comparable.

I also said it's not limited to lack of validation, but rather active villinization from skin tone, hair types, body types, styles of speech/dress, historical origin (Africa land of savages or at best starving marvins), to the innocuous ways in which small things associated with Black ppl/non-Whites are viewed suspiciously or negatively.

So I stand my original statement. I understand why BP esp. BW self segregate because of the nature of the conformity expected.
Do I think it's a smart thing to do? No, but I understand why it occurs. I also find it peculiar that this mono-racial socializing is all low self esteem for BW, but "normal" when Whites and others do it.
When they don't explicitly ask about the racial nature of an event, org, have one Black friend it's noteworthy when in reality of course a majority group is not racially aware in the same way.

The thing is, NAs HAVE NOT gained more acceptance than Blacks...at least according to them. On this matter, I'd agree w/ them.

Most of the skin color-hair issues regarding Blacks are far more an issue in the BC than in the mainstream society, let's be honest. It's Black folks that are mostly responsible for putting these images out there. Who else is constantly sitting up talking about the color/hair texture of Black people? No, I'm not even considering racist sites like Stromfront, I'm talking about your everyday non Black? This is far more of a Black issue than a non Black one, IMHO.

As for Black culture being "invalidated and white washed", I don't see this. Certain Black cultures are held up and others ignored, true enough....but to claim that Black culture in general has not become apart of "the mainstream" I don't find true. If this were coming from Asian Americans, I'd agree....but Black culture and Black people are hardly invisible and hardly invalidated, IMHO. It may not be totally in the ways we'd choose, but it's there.

 

[aribell]

Ok Ima get labeled a black man basher but this whole black women aren't desirable thing came from BLACK men and I've only ever heard BLACK MEN say it. White men have always been attracted to black women and I don't mean the rapist slave masters either. And I don't mean the fetish seekers either. They just don't see us as approachable. Not because of the ABW stereotype but because we totally miss their signals. They're not even on our radar.

Plus if we even show an interest in a white male the comments from black men come. "What a white boy gone do for you?" "Oh you just tryna get that money." "You know he can't work it right." Then the comments from black women come "Oh he only wants you for sex cuz he got a video girl fantasy." "He won't take you home to momma." "You won't fit into the 'white world."

It's wild really. I mean the Serena William ESPN issue was their best selling for a reason.

ITA!! It's such a false perception.

 

[kbragg]

Hmmm....
It's not simply lack of validation, though that alone is an issue. Most Black people can look around and see that "Blackness" is in general invalidated. In other words things that are associated with Black people/Black culture are generally given little/zero consideration; lack of media representation, historical Black figures excluded from school books, creations of Black/AA culture "white washed" before found acceptable and rarely credited back to Blacks, etc.. This would obviously make a group feel invalidated and marginalized.

Why Native Americans sooner gained acceptance would be too long to explain, but suffice it to say it's not entirely comparable.

I also said it's not limited to lack of validation, but rather active villinization from skin tone, hair types, body types, styles of speech/dress, historical origin (Africa land of savages or at best starving marvins), to the innocuous ways in which small things associated with Black ppl/non-Whites are viewed suspiciously or negatively.

So I stand my original statement. I understand why BP esp. BW self segregate because of the nature of the conformity expected.
Do I think it's a smart thing to do? No, but I understand why it occurs. I also find it peculiar that this mono-racial socializing is all low self esteem for BW, but "normal" when Whites and others do it.
When they don't explicitly ask about the racial nature of an event, org, have one Black friend it's noteworthy when in reality of course a majority group is not racially aware in the same way.

See I dunno about this. Right now being black is cool Will Smith is like the hottest actor right now. We have a cool black President and a hawt First Lady A brotha won So You Think You Can Dance (finally lol), Even though Beyonce is the cause of all the problems in the black community, her, Rihanna, and honorary black card holder Lady Gaga are the hotness right now, Harry Potter even tried to holla at a sistah!

 

[Galadriel]

Always the black woman's fault, eh? When are we as a community going to hold our black men accountable? We make it far too easy for them! Teach them HOW TO BE MEN!!!!

Oh, well...

I'm so with you on teaching our boys to be MEN and not letting them be man-boys. Especially since I have another son on the way, I think about often how I would want them to grow up and what I expect of them. I would like (if they choose) for them to be outstanding husbands and fathers one day.

With this said, it's hard to teach a boy to be a man if he doesn't have a father around to teach him how to be a man. You're right that the onus shouldn't fall only on women, but then we can't ignore the fact that a lot of our boys are growing up w/o fathers to teach them to be good husbands and fathers in return when women are letting men into their beds and giving them children when said men aren't FIT to be in her bed or fathering her kids.

 

[jamaraa]

Ok Ima get labeled a black man basher but this whole black women aren't desirable thing came from BLACK men and I've only ever heard BLACK MEN say it. White men have always been attracted to black women and I don't mean the rapist slave masters either. And I don't mean the fetish seekers either. They just don't see us as approachable. Not because of the ABW stereotype but because we totally miss their signals. They're not even on our radar.

Plus if we even show an interest in a white male the comments from black men come. "What a white boy gone do for you?" "Oh you just tryna get that money." "You know he can't work it right." Then the comments from black women come "Oh he only wants you for sex cuz he got a video girl fantasy." "He won't take you home to momma." "You won't fit into the 'white world."

It's wild really. I mean the Serena William ESPN issue was their best selling for a reason.

BINGO! It's usually BM and BW talking this sort of nonsense. If a non BM doesn't find BW "desirable" usually he doesn't harp on it...he goes about his biz. Usually the BM save it for Black based sites like BlackVoices, weird YouTube vids, or every so often on an IR site. However, you see it from BW on all sorts of sites including THIS one. If ever there was a site devoted to the beautification of BW of all shapes/sized/hair textures, wouldn't LHCF be it? Why do we see that even here in the absence of men?

What's odd for me is how outta left field the "undesireable, unfeminine, totem pole" meme can be. On a site like Racialious, it can come up even when the convo has NOTHING to do w/ BW or Blacks at all! It's like what's going on w/ these sistahs?

If I were a non BM or even if I was a BM, I'd find many BW unapproachable too. Sorry .

 

[kbragg]

I'm so with you on teaching our boys to be MEN and not letting them be man-boys. Especially since I have another son on the way, I think about often how I would want them to grow up and what I expect of them. I would like (if they choose) for them to be outstanding husbands and fathers one day.

With this said, it's hard to teach a boy to be a man if he doesn't have a father around to teach him how to be a man. You're right that the onus shouldn't fall only on women, but then we can't ignore the fact that a lot of our boys are growing up w/o fathers to teach them to be good husbands and fathers in return when women are letting men into their beds and giving them children when said men aren't FIT to be in her bed or fathering her kids.

ITA with this. I been posting all day so I have no idea where I said it but modeling is the most powerful part of parenting. You can talk and teach but in the end they will copy what they see. This frightens me because the first couple of year of my marriage I do not want my kids to model but I can't change the past. Thankfully hubby and I have both matured and are modeling a much better picture of what a family should look like. I just hope my kids see the BIG picture especially my oldest. I still got time!

 

[LoveisYou]

Black men aren't marrying us: we are to blame
white men aren't approaching us: we are to blame

Implicit in the above: other women are great and black women are flawed.

Makes me think about Zora's quote about black women being the mule of the world.

I'm conflicted. We as a group could use a few improvements, but the other side must change their approach too, no.

 

[SleekandBouncy]

RE: BW being undesirable originating from BM

BM have sadly and most definitely run with it, but some of you need to do some research into the actual origin of the Angry Black Woman, the a-sexual Black female identity, etc.. I once took a really interesting class on just that subject, there has been extensive research and work written about it's history in the U.S..

And BTW precisely who's values do you think BM are trying to conform to when they look down upon BW and appear to uphold only the beauty of WW? Do you think that's random? Who's prize are they trying to steal in order to show they measure up? Right exactly. Who precisely do you think created that one standard that BM now idolize that is so in contrast to the aesthetic attributes of most BW?

This of course doesn't justify any of BM's nonsenses, but I need for folks to make their arguments in a way that sticks to the facts and truths.

 

[LoveisYou]

Err, so you guys honestly believe that slave owners had a positive view of black women during slavery?

Don't you think that those negative views originated during slavery?

hmnn...

 

[jamaraa]

Black men aren't marrying us: we are to blame
white men aren't approaching us: we are to blame

Implicit in the above: other women are great and black women are flawed.

Makes me think about Zora's quote about black women being the mule of the world.

I'm conflicted. We as a group could use a few improvements, but the other side must change their approach too, no.

ALL women are flawed...that's a side effect of being human!

I simply think that BW need to rethink what they ARE responsible for and NOT responsible for. You are in control of how you feel about you, not some random stranger. I'm not the world's most optimistic person, but people should be suspicious of ANYTHING that tells them to be down on themselves too. You are probably no worse than the next person, remember that!

The Hurston thing needs to be REJECTED as being outmoded and defeatist. I don't think her intention was for people to actually model themselves this way, she was just noting a sad tendency in the BC way back in 1937 (2010).

 

[jamaraa]

Err, so you guys honestly believe that slave owners had a positive view of black women during slavery?

Don't you think that those negative views originated during slavery?

hmnn...

To the 1st...no I don't.

To the 2nd....I think the modern views of Blacks are based more in modern stereotypes, not historical ones. History certainly has a role in both the stereotypes AND the realities, but I think most of what BW are dealing w/ today are based in the stereotypes of today. Example...the "angry Black woman" stereotype had little currency in slavery-maybe the 1960s. If I could say it started anywhere, it would be w/ Daniel Patrick Moyihan's "War On Poverty" studies that claimed BW "emasculated" BM. This meme was picked up strongly by the Civil Rights Movement and the Black Nationlaists Movements of the later decade. Add feminism/womanism to the brew and it morphed into "angry Black woman" syndrome.

Of course, nothing's this simply simple, but I think that particular stereotype evolved as the times changed. Stereotypes, unfortunately, change w/ the times. How often to do hear the old "stealing chickens-watermelons" stereoytpe these days?