Is Marriage for White People? by Ralph Richard Banks

Brighteyes35 said:
Crystalicequeen123

Girlfriend, now you got me thinking. Why do we as black women put up with the poor behavior of black men to begin with? We can all agree that a woman who stays in an abusive (mental or physical) relationship with a man, clearly has self esteem issues so I'm wondering, is this an issue with black women? Is there a collective self esteem problem? And it's not just ghetto women who put up with this, I know some educated smart sistas taking mess from men. I'm scratching my head and highly confused???? Anyway, I'm all about interracial dating, I love it and recommend it. I do however, let sistas know, it ain't easy so you have to work extra hard to prove that you are a "different" black woman. My last boyfriend was a fullblood Native American and distance is what broke us up. I was willing to do a longterm relationship but he was not. We are still good friends though. If he asked me to marry him tomorrow, I would!!!
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*** that.
*character limit*
 
Brighteyes35 said:
Crystalicequeen123

Girlfriend, now you got me thinking. Why do we as black women put up with the poor behavior of black men to begin with? We can all agree that a woman who stays in an abusive (mental or physical) relationship with a man, clearly has self esteem issues so I'm wondering, is this an issue with black women? Is there a collective self esteem problem? And it's not just ghetto women who put up with this, I know some educated smart sistas taking mess from men. I'm scratching my head and highly confused???? Anyway, I'm all about interracial dating, I love it and recommend it. I do however, let sistas know, it ain't easy so you have to work extra hard to prove that you are a "different" black woman. My last boyfriend was a fullblood Native American and distance is what broke us up. I was willing to do a longterm relationship but he was not. We are still good friends though. If he asked me to marry him tomorrow, I would!!!
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[mention=14554099] Brighteyes35 [/mention]

Could you please embellish further by what you mean by this statement? What do you mean by a "different black woman"?? And in which ways do you prove this? :confused:

Not trying to stir up contentions...just genuinely curious, because Idk if this may have come off the wrong way..... :look:
 
Flawless_JYM said:
^ I don't know you so don't take it personally but you sure come off like one of these black women that take the same amount or more stuff from men of different races. I hope thats not the case and it just looks like it in the thread. I'm also intrigued when people regardless of race/gender would prefer dating someone different than them if there is the equivalent of the same race as general you. How do y'all come to that determination? Not judging just curious cause I would choose my own if everything was equal or close enough where it wasn't a big difference.
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@Flawless_JYM

Girlfriend I assume you are talking to me but not real sure since you didn't address anyone in particular. Dating wise I have dated mostly black men and if I could find a black husband..........hello!!! Having lived in Atlanta most all my life.........ummm that was next to impossible. Them brothas there ain't trying to settle down cause they know they don't have to. I could bore you all day long of the men I came into contact with in Atl. A hot mess!! I eventually opened up my options and I must say, the treatment was waaay better. Not to say that there aren't a-holes in other races but apparently there is something going on when you look at the marriage rates of other races and then look at the marriage rates of blacks...........that's all I'm saying girlfriend. Now if you wanna talk to a group of people who really do prefer another race over their race then that should be Asian women and their preference for white men. I haven't figured that out yet. Funny thing is, it's accepted by our society as ok!????? :perplexed
 
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Crystalicequeen123 said:
@ Brighteyes35

Could you please embellish further by what you mean by this statement? What do you mean by a "different black woman"?? And in which ways do you prove this? :confused:

Not trying to stir up contentions...just genuinely curious, because Idk if this may have come off the wrong way..... :look:
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Most races buy into the stereotype that black women are loud mouth, aggressive, have poor morals and don't have great family values so basically you as a black woman have to debunk this myth. Black women certainly aren't the only ones who get stereotyped. Asian women get stereotyped too but their stereotypes don't carry as many negative connotations. When I dated this one Asian guy, he was shocked that I came from a two parent home and that my parents were both my biological parents and had been married for years. Yeah.......stuff like that. You'd be surprised at how other races perceive black women. Even I was appalled when I first starting dating out. I dated guys who were like "what..........you aren't gonna go off on that waiter. I thought you guys don't play". Ummmmmmmmm............not all of us are neck twirlin bad mama jamas ya know. Stuff like that. Perhaps I ran into this because I was in the south. Maybe people are more open minded in different regions. Either way if you are gonna interracially date just be prepared for those kinda things. Once you are past them you are past them and things are smooth sailing.
 
^^^ This doesn't sound all that different from the games we're asked to play to keep black men.

I say be yourself and let the chips fall where they may. If dude of any race has half a clue he'll figure out he's with a quality woman without having to jump through any hoops to prove yourself.
 
Brighteyes35 said:
Most races buy into the stereotype that black women are loud mouth, aggressive, have poor morals and don't have great family values so basically you as a black woman have to debunk this myth. Black women certainly aren't the only ones who get stereotyped. Asian women get stereotyped too but their stereotypes don't carry as many negative connotations. When I dated this one Asian guy, he was shocked that I came from a two parent home and that my parents were both my biological parents and had been married for years. Yeah.......stuff like that. You'd be surprised at how other races perceive black women. Even I was appalled when I first starting dating out. I dated guys who were like "what..........you aren't gonna go off on that waiter. I thought you guys don't play". Ummmmmmmmm............not all of us are neck twirlin bad mama jamas ya know. Stuff like that. Perhaps I ran into this because I was in the south. Maybe people are more open minded in different regions. Either way if you are gonna interracially date just be prepared for those kinda things. Once you are past them you are past them and things are smooth sailing.
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Thanks for the clarification! :yep:
 
Brighteyes35 said:
You'd be surprised at how other races perceive black women. Even I was appalled when I first starting dating out. I dated guys who were like "what..........you aren't gonna go off on that waiter. I thought you guys don't play". Ummmmmmmmm............not all of us are neck twirlin bad mama jamas ya know. Stuff like that. Perhaps I ran into this because I was in the south. Maybe people are more open minded in different regions. Either way if you are gonna interracially date just be prepared for those kinda things. Once you are past them you are past them and things are smooth sailing.
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It's not like some black men don't have these assumptions too. One black guy I was interested in had the nerve to ask me if I was an 'angry black woman' just because I disagreed with something he said and was not afraid to tell him so. Around a lot of black guys I feel I can't get too passionate about something or they'll chalk me up to be an 'angry black woman' even though that's not how I am.
 
ScorpioBeauty09

You are so right. That reminds me of this brotha who I recently met online who I no longer talk to or date. The first time we talked, the first thing outta his mouth was are you an angry black woman and what makes me mad and when was the last time I got angry and then he started asking me how would I react to specific scenarios he was giving. I was thinking to myself.............are you serious!!! He was a nice brotha but what killed it for me was he spent the entire time trying to see if I was that angry black woman. It was like he invested his whole time in trying to find my faults and what made me tick.
 
Brighteyes35 said:
Most races buy into the stereotype that black women are loud mouth, aggressive, have poor morals and don't have great family values so basically you as a black woman have to debunk this myth. Black women certainly aren't the only ones who get stereotyped. Asian women get stereotyped too but their stereotypes don't carry as many negative connotations. When I dated this one Asian guy, he was shocked that I came from a two parent home and that my parents were both my biological parents and had been married for years. Yeah.......stuff like that. You'd be surprised at how other races perceive black women. Even I was appalled when I first starting dating out. I dated guys who were like "what..........you aren't gonna go off on that waiter. I thought you guys don't play". Ummmmmmmmm............not all of us are neck twirlin bad mama jamas ya know. Stuff like that. Perhaps I ran into this because I was in the south. Maybe people are more open minded in different regions. Either way if you are gonna interracially date just be prepared for those kinda things. Once you are past them you are past them and things are smooth sailing.
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I've done a lot of interracial dating, and I haven't experienced that. Usually the guys that are open to dating me have plenty of experience with dating outside their race. They already knew that the stereotypes about Black women aren't true before they started dating me. But then again, most of my interracial dating experience was in a big city, not down South.

Truth be told, most of the negative assumptions have come from Black men. *shrug*
 
^^^^^ same here. Dated in the South and North. I was typically the first Black girl they approached, but we shared a link somehow so it wasn't weird. Common friend, common interest/favorite bands, ending up in the same spot and eventually talking. They never threw any stereotypes up about Black people, though a few said some innocently dumb things. Or well, asked some dumb questions, usually about genealogy. Like, we should make a tree! Umm... no. I can't. :-(

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HauteHippie said:
^^^^^ same here. Dated in the South and North. I was typically the first Black girl they approached, but we shared a link somehow so it wasn't weird. Common friend, common interest/favorite bands, ending up in the same spot and eventually talking. They never threw any stereotypes up about Black people, though a few said some innocently dumb things. Or well, asked some dumb questions, usually about genealogy. Like, we should make a tree! Umm... no. I can't. :-(

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Out of curiosity, what were some of the innocently dumb things they said?
 
vtoodler said:
Out of curiosity, what were some of the innocently dumb things they said?
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A guy I was planning a wedding with asked my mom if we could trace our ancestors back to a plantation in the area. He wanted to go to it! I was like, "He's from California! He doesn't understand!" My mom didn't hold it against him, though b/c he is such a genuinely great guy. And her bf is from Chicago and even though he's Black, too, he's asked his fair share of similarly dumb questions.

Also, I've caught a few guys staring at my feet! Like, the part where the brown meets the sole. I'm like, "It's a sole, look! ...Freaking weirdo. Haven't you ever seen a Black person's foot up close before!" That kind of stuff.

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Ugh I HATE these discussions because NO one ever talks about the REAL reasons why there is a low marriage rate in the Black community.

1) Mass incarceration and lack of LEGAL employment opportunities - Many Black men either are incarcerated or have been thus limiting their employment opportunities, leading to a cycle of repeat offenders. In addition, even more are unemployed/underemployed/make menial wages. Because of this, it not only means they do not have the economic means to support a woman or family, but much of their manhood is devalued, especially since the hegemonic ideal of manhood in America is to be the breadwinner of the family. If you are not a stable breadwinner, you are basically emasculated. Michelle Alexander's book "The New Jim Crow" talks about how America is creating a permanent caste system/system for Black men like Jim Crow through mass incarceration. This leads into my second point....
2) Economics - like I said previously, Black men have a harder time creating a stable income high enough to not only support themselves, but their children and families. The simple reality is, most men do NOT get married until they are financially stable. Since most Black men have issues getting there, they are less likely to marry ANYONE, regardless of race.

These topics too often focus on how all Black men hate Black women and only want to date interracially, which is not true because statistics show only 10% of Black men are married outside their race, which means the other 90% is either married to a Black woman or NOT MARRIED PERIOD. We need to focus on granting Black men the tools to create economic stability within their lives, whether it be through education initiatives to get more Black men in college, or just simply creating skilled jobs with steady livable pay. The more Black men we get employed with steady wages, I bet you the marriage rate will increase dramatically.

To go into why Black women are not dating interracially, one reason is the racial dichotomy of this country that some other posters alluded to earlier. Interracial dating to Black women has mostly only been sold/marketed as dating White men, and due to the tumultuous relationship/linkage of Black women and White men, it makes many Black women very hesitant to dating White men. In addition, Black women are the "least desired" by other races, which basically means that men of other races are more apprehensive to dating Black women more so because of social stigma rather than actual attraction. Black women, and women in general are gonna date men who express interest. If most men of other races, many who are physically attracted to Black women are hesitant to act on their physical attraction to pursue a relationship with a Black woman because of what society thinks, that obviously is gonna reflect in how many Black women date interracially. If men of other races are always too chickensh*t to approach you in fear of being "seen" with a Black girl, do you honestly think we will date interracially much?? For that reason alone, I do admire men of other races who are proud and embrace their attraction and relationships to/with Black women.
 
Damnit, some white chick brought in an article abt this book to class today. I'm so sick of the Black Woman's Plight in the media at every turn. It's exhausting and no one is offering new solutions.
 
MsSanz92 said:
To go into why Black women are not dating interracially, one reason is the racial dichotomy of this country that some other posters alluded to earlier. Interracial dating to Black women has mostly only been sold/marketed as dating White men, and due to the tumultuous relationship/linkage of Black women and White men, it makes many Black women very hesitant to dating White men. In addition, Black women are the "least desired" by other races, which basically means that men of other races are more apprehensive to dating Black women more so because of social stigma rather than actual attraction. Black women, and women in general are gonna date men who express interest. If most men of other races, many who are physically attracted to Black women are hesitant to act on their physical attraction to pursue a relationship with a Black woman because of what society thinks, that obviously is gonna reflect in how many Black women date interracially. If men of other races are always too chickensh*t to approach you in fear of being "seen" with a Black girl, do you honestly think we will date interracially much?? For that reason alone, I do admire men of other races who are proud and embrace their attraction and relationships to/with Black women.
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tumblr_lud4ihmCRP1qmuc1p.jpg
 
BEAUTYU2U said:
Damnit, some white chick brought in an article abt this book to class today. I'm so sick of the Black Woman's Plight in the media at every turn. It's exhausting and no one is offering new solutions.
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Is it a Sociology class or is she rolling up in Biochem with this?:lol:
 
MsSanz92,

Sorry, I was just messing with ya. I always wanted to use that gif, and this was the perfect time for me to use it. :lachen:

The general consensus on this board is that non-black men in general are interested in dating black women and aren't afraid to show interest if the black women is slim, attractive, educated, poise, etc. If you have problems attracting non-bm, something is wrong with you. The reason that there are a low numbers of BW involved with IR is that most BW are not interested in non-bm, not the other way around.
 
lushcoils said:
@MsSanz92,

Sorry, I was just messing with ya. I always wanted to use that gif, and this was the perfect time for me to use it. :lachen:

The general consensus on this board is that non-black men in general are interested in dating black women and aren't afraid to show interest if the black women is slim, attractive, educated, poise, etc. If you have problems attracting non-bm, something is wrong with you. The reason that there are a low numbers of BW involved with IR is that most BW are not interested in non-bm, not the other way around.
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I disagree. Under that assumption, that means that all White/non-Black men are a collective group that desire the same kind of Black woman which is not true. Usually, White/Non-Black men of a certain status/environment will be interested in the type Black women that you described, however what about the "wiggers"? (I hate that term but I'm using it to prove my point.) I'm pretty sure they're not checking for the Aisha Tylers of the world. Also, I don't think there is anything wrong with a Black woman who does not attract men of other races! Some people might only be attracted to a small minority of men, who might just all be Black. I'm not saying Non-Black men are not interested in Black women; that's my whole argument I'm just sick and tired of all the blame being put on Black women as if we have to date interracially or be seen as "close-minded" and that we don't live in a society that is set up to portray us as less desirable. We do just turn onto any reality TV show we are shown as crazy b*tches. To deny that the way Black women are portrayed to non-Black and heck even Black men in the media influences the ways in which men in general interact with us is bogus. I personally don't have issues attracting men of other races but I do still prefer Black men. Am I closed off to the idea of dating interracially; not at all since I've done it before already. This apprehension comes from BOTH sides! We cannot just accuse Black women of being close-minded or blame non-Black men of being racist in their dating practices; it's a two way street.
 
vtoodler said:
Excellent point, lushcoils. There are beautiful women in ALL races, and a man will approach a woman regardless of her race.

Interesting~

Just from a bit of my experience. I grew up in a school where their were too few BM, and that meant white, asian, latina--all girls went after them. So there was no real chance there, and at my school, guys of other races didn't date outside of their race without being kicked in the shins by well...girls of their race :drunk:

In college, the most strange thing started to happen. Guys of other races--yes nonblack men, were giving longer stares, and even giving flowery compliments. :yawn:

And interestingly a good amount of my nonblack guy friends slowly started to ask if I 'wanted to catch dinner with them' and even when we spoke, they always asked if I 'dated anything else beside black guys'

My conclusion is this: Guys of all races can and will be attracted to a pretty girl. It seems that they have to get over the stigma that we only 'date within our race'

Heck, if anything my nonblack guy friends jumped through hoops and turned tricks to get me to see them as something 'more than a friend' :lol:
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lushcoils said:
Views similar to Banks' always interest me.
The belief is that black men as a whole have a disdain for BW. The answer: date WM.
But um, are wm as a whole approving of BW? (For most BW, not referring to the ones on this board who get asked out by them several times a day).

IME, no, wm in general are not uplifting BW. If fact, most prefer to date their own race. That's why I never get the simple of answer of, oh, just date wm and problem solved. It's not that simple.
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I don't think anyone said that this would "solve the problem" but that it would increase the odds of meeting someone who is your peer. Not limiting yourself in this way gives most women more of a chance of being married as opposed to being a career girlfriend, that's all. :look:
 
vtoodler said:
If anyone is interested, USC hosted a long conference about Mr. Banks' book. The conference features an Introduction and Q&A session.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4La-Pi_KXY&feature=related
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vtoodler - Thank you SO much for posting this! Usually when he's on a talk show or being interviewed, the interview is either edited or he doesn't have enough time to explain his point in full. This allowed me to hear his voice and to truly understand where he's coming from. This is one of the most intelligent discussions I have heard in awhile. Anyone who doesn't see what his motives are from listening to this really does not WANT to know!

:thankyou:
 
This whole subject has added layers to my dating life.

Went on a date last month with a Jewish NYU Prof who wanted to know if I would marry out. If not, why? He, daring, curious man that he apparently is has asked Black men what the issue is with Black women dating or marrying out and if the response is that it is the responsibility of the Black woman to maintain the Black family (common response within our community), his response is that it then must be the responsibility of the Black man to lead it and if they do not do so, then it is the responsibility of the Black woman to find a suitable man who will do so. I've tried to tell him that them is fighting words. He had a lot more to say until finally I was like, "Kinda heavy for a first date..."

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HauteHippie said:
This whole subject has added layers to my dating life.

Went on a date last month with a Jewish NYU Prof who wanted to know if I would marry out. If not, why? He, daring, curious man that he apparently is has asked Black men what the issue is with Black women dating or marrying out and if the response is that it is the responsibility of the Black woman to maintain the Black family (common response within our community), his response is that it then must be the responsibility of the Black man to lead it and if they do not do so, then it is the responsibility of the Black woman to find a suitable man who will do so. I've tried to tell him that them is fighting words. He had a lot more to say until finally I was like, "Kinda heavy for a first date..."

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Oh WOW! He was bold!!! :lachen:



In all honesty though.....he DOES have a point. :look:

But yea, kind of heavy talk for a First Date. :ohwell:
 
HauteHippie said:
This whole subject has added layers to my dating life.

Went on a date last month with a Jewish NYU Prof who wanted to know if I would marry out. If not, why? He, daring, curious man that he apparently is has asked Black men what the issue is with Black women dating or marrying out and if the response is that it is the responsibility of the Black woman to maintain the Black family (common response within our community), his response is that it then must be the responsibility of the Black man to lead it and if they do not do so, then it is the responsibility of the Black woman to find a suitable man who will do so. I've tried to tell him that them is fighting words. He had a lot more to say until finally I was like, "Kinda heavy for a first date..."

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Click to expand...

Your whole date makes so much more sense with the first bolded :lol:.

2nd bolded --- he's right

3rd bolded --- Yeah... He kinda went in. I can't talk too much since I tend to have interesting, random conversations too on dates. I'm wondering if you knew him prior?
 
This is a deep conversation for a first date but I appreciate the fact that he had great insight about this issue. Usually people are quick to blame black women instead of acknowledging that both bm and bw has ownership in the break down of our relationships.
 
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