Yes, It's Another 'single Black Woman' Thread.....

[LoveisYou]

ALL women are flawed...that's a side effect of being human!

I simply think that BW need to rethink what they ARE responsible for and NOT responsible for. You are in control of how you feel about you, not some random stranger. I'm not the world's most optimistic person, but people should be suspicious of ANYTHING that tells them to be down on themselves too. You are probably no worse than the next person, remember that!

The Hurston thing needs to be REJECTED as being outmoded and defeatist. I don't think her intention was for people to actually model themselves this way, she was just noting a sad tendency in the BC way back in 1937 (2010).

I am not questioning myself personally, my post was to make a general point. I'm also fully aware that Zora was not creating a "model" with that quote either. I believe that she was commenting on the challenges that black women face(d).

On a very basic human level, we all know we're flawed. However, since the discussion is beyond that basic fact, I'm commenting on the covert messages that the media delivers by the way they cover these issues.

 

[jamaraa]

RE: BW being undesirable originating from BM

BM have sadly and most definitely run with it, but some of you need to do some research into the actual origin of the Angry Black Woman, the a-sexual Black female identity, etc.. I once took a really interesting class on just that subject, there has been extensive research and work written about it's history in the U.S..

And BTW precisely who's values do you think BM are trying to conform to when they look down upon BW and appear to uphold only the beauty of WW? Do you think that's random? Who's prize are they trying to steal in order to show they measure up? Right exactly. Who precisely do you think created that one standard that BM now idolize that is so in contrast to the aesthetic attributes of most BW?

This of course doesn't justify any of BM's nonsenses, but I need for folks to make their arguments in a way that sticks to the facts and truths.

Who's values do you think BW are conforming to when they go around talking about how "undesirable" they are? Nobody I can see is denying this....however, I refuse to pass the buck. If Blacks are the ones primarily PERPETUATING these stereotypes, they are being "the dog that barks" (as in "why bark when you have dogs to do it for you?).

I fully believe in individual choice and agency. For every BW or BM that behave in certain ways, there are 5 that don't. History and all that's good to explain those that behave in this manner, but what of those that don't?

 

[Galadriel]

I'm conflicted. We as a group could use a few improvements, but the other side must change their approach too, no.

They definitely must, Love . Even without necessarily having a dad, isn't there SOME type of positive male role model? Or how about common decency and responsibility? Or how about "Man, I know what it's like to grow up without a dad and I don't want to live that way or do that to my future/potential kids." Men definitely need to get a whack over the head and come back to reality.

Unfortunately, none of us can be the behavior police and none of us can force another's will. So on a practical level, I can only control *my* life and decisions and who I *let* into my life and into a relationship with me, and who I *let* share my bed and father my kids.
Lots of men get away with their indecency and foolery b/c some woman at one time or another will put up with it.

Earlier this week I posted a thread about a relative who asked me to be at her house on Wednesday @ 4:30pm b/c her baby daddy (who she's been seeing for 5 years despite the fact that he also during part of that time lived with another woman with whom he had another OOW child) was going to propose to her (by the way, the proposal was canceled).

Here she is, a young lady with 3 kids by 3 different men, and she clearly wants to get married b/c she constantly talked about it and kept telling friends and family to expect her to be engaged soon--but is it happening? Even if he had proposed to her, the guy isn't necessarily the catch of the month, you know?

Is the guy foul, a jerk, irresponsible, and not good marriage material? Sure! And I don't think he should be let off, or coddled or anything. However, unless one of us invents a mind control device, he's going to keep on in his pattern and his ways and get what a lot of men are getting nowadays--sex without responsibility.

He's wrong, and I have no respect for him--but HE doesn't CARE--everything's going great for HIM. It's the woman who's disappointed, embarrassed, upset, etc.

 

[LoveisYou]

To the 1st...no I don't.

To the 2nd....I think the modern views of Blacks are based more in modern stereotypes, not historical ones. History certainly has a role in both the stereotypes AND the realities, but I think most of what BW are dealing w/ today are based in the stereotypes of today. Example...the "angry Black woman" stereotype had little currency in slavery-maybe the 1960s. If I could say it started anywhere, it would be w/ Daniel Patrick Moyihan's "War On Poverty" studies that claimed BW "emasculated" BM. This meme was picked up strongly by the Civil Rights Movement and the Black Nationlaists Movements of the later decade. Add feminism/womanism to the brew and it morphed into "angry Black woman" syndrome.

Of course, nothing's this simply simple, but I think that particular stereotype evolved as the times changed. Stereotypes, unfortunately, change w/ the times. How often to do hear the old "stealing chickens-watermelons" stereoytpe these days?

The stereotypes themselves may have evolved, but slavery set the foundation that affected the way blacks were viewed and treated in this country. Slavery was the source that created the many of the ills that the black community is facing today including poverty and self-hate.

I'm not one for focusing on the past or encouraging victim mentalities, but I am fully aware that the past continues to shape and influence the present.

 

[jamaraa]

I am not questioning myself personally, my post was to make a general point. I'm also fully aware of the fact that Zora was not creating a "model" with that quote either. I believe that she was commenting on the challenges that black women face(d).

On a very basic human level, we all know we're flawed. However, since the discussion is beyond that basic fact, I'm commenting on the covert messages that the media delivers by the way they cover these issues.

I've already addressed "the media", ad nausem. Honestly, I think people put far too much stock in it as an explanation of social ills in general. At the end of the day, people have interactions w/ people in real life. I would think real life, more than some portrayals on TV and in the print media, really have more to do w/ how people see each other than not. After all, when someone wants to talk about their NEGATIVE experiences, they always pull out a "real life example", right?

Besides, folks sometimes act like "the media" is simply beyond their control. People can turn it off and/or choose what it is they watch/intake. People have choices in these matters. They aren't being indoctrinated without their consent.

 

[jamaraa]

The stereotypes themselves may have evolved, but slavery set the foundation that affected the way blacks were viewed and treated in this country. Slavery was the source that created the many of the ills that the black community is facing today including poverty and self-hate.

I'm not one for focusing on the past or encouraging victim mentalities, but I am fully aware that the past continues to shape and influence the present.

Sorry, but who's denying that? Certainly not I. Plain and simply, these histrocial facts are unalterable. Individuals HAVE to make decisions based on their PRESENT lives. The past is just that.

Our ancestors were DENIED agency and the ability to make choices regarding their own well-being...we are not. That is my focus.

 

[LoveisYou]

I've already addressed "the media", ad nausem. Honestly, I think people put far too much stock in it as an explanation of social ills in general. At the end of the day, people have interactions w/ people in real life. I would think real life, more than some portrayals on TV and in the print media, really have more to do w/ how people see each other than not. After all, when someone wants to talk about their NEGATIVE experiences, they always pull out a "real life example", right?

Besides, folks sometimes act like "the media" is simply beyond their control. People can turn it off and/or choose what it is they watch/intake. People have choices in these matters. They aren't being indoctrinated without their consent.

Right, but the people who are affected by these stereotypes aren't the only ones being indoctrinated.

 

[SleekandBouncy]

Ok Ima get labeled a black man basher but this whole black women aren't desirable thing came from BLACK men and I've only ever heard BLACK MEN say it. White men have always been attracted to black women and I don't mean the rapist slave masters either. And I don't mean the fetish seekers either. They just don't see us as approachable. Not because of the ABW stereotype but because we totally miss their signals. They're not even on our radar.

Plus if we even show an interest in a white male the comments from black men come. "What a white boy gone do for you?" "Oh you just tryna get that money." "You know he can't work it right." Then the comments from black women come "Oh he only wants you for sex cuz he got a video girl fantasy." "He won't take you home to momma." "You won't fit into the 'white world."

It's wild really. I mean the Serena William ESPN issue was their best selling for a reason.

@ the bold.
and all that had absolutely nothing to do with the fact that for generations beauty was defined by White womanhood? and this sold across the world as to make White men and Women the standard for all things positive?
This had nothing to do with the fact that BW beauty and sexuality was actively presented as alluringly primitive and that WM still have a hand in devaluing Black beauty (they still own the mags and tv stations, right?) So none of BW's behavior was/is a reaction to racial dynamics (granted which are changing) in the U.S. as created by White (incl. White men)? That just came about randomly, BW just have really bad signal catching skills and just decided to be mean and ignore White men solely out of insecurity?

So this negative view of BW has only influenced BM, but not WM? and was also created by BM? The dissing of BW in the face of a pale, skinny, long haired, light eyed ideal was just something BM came up all while WM fervently disagreed?

Granted I do think Black women of present times underestimate the appreciation men of all races have for attractive women be they black, green or purple and too often underestimate their appeal to non-BM, but I think your post oversimplifies, ignores, and actually rewrites the facts involved.

 

[LoveisYou]

Sorry, but who's denying that? Certainly not I. Plain and simply, these histrocial facts are unalterable. Individuals HAVE to make decisions based on their PRESENT lives. The past is just that.

Our ancestors were DENIED agency and the ability to make choices regarding their own well-being...we are not. That is my focus.

You made a comment about modern stereotypes, and I responded to demonstrate that these modern stereotypes have a connection with the histroy of this country.

Although our general viewpoints and appraoches may be different, like you, I do think personal responsibility is necessary for any kind of change to take place.

 

[naturalmanenyc]

I did not even remember all those songs at the time. I don't own any of her CD's but I guess there are lots of mixed messages being put out there by some of these artist.

I agree though that Black men have so many options with respect to women who will tolerate BS that they do not always have to step up. And don't let the man be attractive, educated, have a good salary, his own house and no kids. Those men tend to have 2 - 3 women jumping through hoops like those in the ABC video - the men who call to check in with them every year or so to make sure that they are still single. I know a guy like that and a woman who was with him for over a decade. He cheated a few times and ended up with a kid so she dumped him; however, she did mention all of his marriage "qualities" to me despite his
being a cheater.

As far as the "2 strikes" comment, I don't mean we are doomed because of it, but rather than we can and have achieved in SPITE of it. One thing I will credit my teachers with is they would say "Now girls, you already have 2 strikes against you; you're black, and you're female. What that means is being average and just getting by isn't going to cut it. You need to be exceptional. Your very best." I am very thankful for those teachers because they instilled in me a Spirit of excellence that has stuck with me my entire life. I know our black male teachers said the same things to the boys, I just don't understood why we as black women have latched onto that attitude and our brother have not.

Beyonce IS the cause of all problems in the black community. She sends us mixed messages. First she says find a man who can pay your bills, bills, bills. Then she said be an independent woman and pay your own. She tells us to stay with a cheating man and ring the alarm and don't let another woman take him from you and all the things you have because of him. Then she said send him do da left to da left but make sure and leave the car and clothes and stuff we bought him. She tells us to make him put a ring on it, but then turns around and tells us to let random dudes in the club tape us on their video phone. And the worst offense of all....after all the empowering women songs and messages she marry's the most misogynistic man in the rap gameerplexed Beyonce has destroyed the black community and I think it's about time that we as women call her on it

Back to being serious Incentive is probably a better word If I was a black man though, and wasn't saved, and I could get all the sex I wanted, a hot meal and a warm bed every night, have children, and a woman who would stay by my side for 5 - 10 years without even the promise of marriage, just the hope that it may happen one day, who put up with my cheating ways and instead of fighting me went after my jump off, well shoot why would I get married? I have all the benefits of marriage without any of the responsibility and a line of women willing to replace my current wifey if she get's tired of me and decides to move on.

 

[naturalmanenyc]

Where does this idea come from that BM do not desire BW or that the idea originated with BM?

I have yet to meet a Black man who stated that he does not find Black women desirable and I have dated 99% Black men in my lifetime. I am approached by lots of WM and Latino Men too. I think that all men are attracted to BW. DH for one has never and would never date a WW. His son by elementary school already knew that he could never bring home a WW to meet his dad.

I have a few male family members (3) who married WW but for the most part the Black men that I know are with BW. In fact, 2 of 3 male family members are now married to BW (divorced the WW). Of course BM find BW desirable....and many other men do too. Like lots of people, BM are prone to sterotyping and media influences. We are bombarded with images of beauty that focus on skinny, blonde WW. Chris Rock even discussed it on Oprah with a row full of bleached blondes. Even WW struggle with attaining the media influenced standard of beauty - White, skinny & blonde. And of course, who owns most of the media outlets (magazines, tv networks, filmmakers) = White Men!

RE: BW being undesirable originating from BM

BM have sadly and most definitely run with it, but some of you need to do some research into the actual origin of the Angry Black Woman, the a-sexual Black female identity, etc.. I once took a really interesting class on just that subject, there has been extensive research and work written about it's history in the U.S..

And BTW precisely who's values do you think BM are trying to conform to when they look down upon BW and appear to uphold only the beauty of WW? Do you think that's random? Who's prize are they trying to steal in order to show they measure up? Right exactly. Who precisely do you think created that one standard that BM now idolize that is so in contrast to the aesthetic attributes of most BW?

This of course doesn't justify any of BM's nonsenses, but I need for folks to make their arguments in a way that sticks to the facts and truths.

 

[jamaraa]

You made a comment about modern stereotypes, and I responded to demonstrate that these modern stereotypes have a connection with the histroy of this country.

Although our general viewpoints and appraoches may be different, like you, I do think personal responsibility is necessary for any kind of change to take place.

I thought that was understood and went w/o saying. Frankly many times "the ancestors" are trotted out to shut down many good convos about our present life, so I'm always leery when they come up in contexts such as these.

 

[jamaraa]

Where does this idea come from that BM do not desire BW or that the idea originated with BM?

From what I can see, it's mostly online and that infernal Wesley Snipes piece from years back! IRL I've never seen it so blatantly stated as I do online, but I have seen men w/ marked preferances. Those I've spoken to generally deal in the basic stereotypes (usually some variation of the ABW) and their own preferances, FWIW. Never have they been just nasty about it nor have I ever heard anything about "undesirablility" tho I have heard "unfeminine" once or twice.

 

[jamaraa]

Right, but the people who are affected by these stereotypes aren't the only ones being indoctrinated.

Ya don't say? Well, what should we do then...cry in our soup about how life is so unfair or get on w/ the biz of living? As I keep saying, people have choices about what they choose to believe and not. The fact that this stuff is out there, oh well.

People will choose or not to allow outside influences to derail them from their full potential and goals. How many people use this stuff as an EXCUSE to not try anything?

Nobody will be liked by everybody, period. Much of this comes down to people beliving the approvoal of others is how to define self. Tired argument.

Black beauty, since that seems to be such an issue, will NEVER be the norm in a majority White country. However, that doesn't mean YOU aren't beautiful NOR does it mean that others won't find you so.

 

[LoveisYou]

I thought that was understood and went w/o saying. Frankly many times "the ancestors" are trotted out to shut down many good convos about our present life, so I'm always leery when they come up in contexts such as these.

I am not sure where ancestors are trotted out to "shut down" discussions, but that's besides the point. I used slavery to draw a correlation and make a point. I'm not leery of historical accounts used in discussions, history serves to further my understanding. Frankly, I believe that we could use our history to improve our lives.

 

[SleekandBouncy]

Where does this idea come from that BM do not desire BW or that the idea originated with BM?

I have yet to meet a Black man who does not find Black women undesirable and I have dated 99% Black men in my lifetime. I am approached by lots of WM and Latino Men too. I think that all men are attracted to BW. DH for one has never and would never date a WW. His son by elementary school already knew that he could never bring home a WW to meet his dad.

I have a few male family members (3) who married WW but for the most part the Black men that I know are with BW. In fact, 2 of 3 male family members are now married to BW (divorced the WW). Of course BM find BW desirable....and many other men do too. Like lots of people, BM are prone to sterotyping and media influences. We are bombarded with images of beauty that focus on skinny, blonde WW. Chris Rock even discussed it on Oprah with a row full of bleached blondes. Even WW struggle with attaining the media influenced standard of beauty - White, skinny & blonde. And of course, who owns most of the media outlets (magazines, tv networks, filmmakers) = White Men!

Ditto. I'm really at a loss to explain that one.
Another poster said that it's Black men who created the BW aren't undesirable thing so I was responding to that. Now all that is news to me esp. since I know it's the minority of BM I've ever encountered who aren't attracted to BW and any sentiments strictly to the opposite are generally in relation to them having bought into a mainstream beauty ideal and trying to prove their own worth by degrading BW.

Someone also mentioned Serena and how ESPN had their highest rating during that time. I don't really get how that's relevant esp. since that proves/disproves nothing in regards to who does/doesn't find them attractive esp. if you were on the tennis forums (as I was) during many of their matches and observed many of the comments which I'll refrain from repeating.

It's quite simple. A percentage of BW and BM got hoodwinked into thinking lowly of themselves, how it manifested differed between genders, but it is on us to take control of how we feel about ourselves.

 

[LoveisYou]

Ya don't say? Well, what should we do then...cry in our soup about how life is so unfair or get on w/ the biz of living? As I keep saying, people have choices about what they choose to believe and not. The fact that this stuff is out there, oh well.

People will choose or not to allow outside influences to derail them from their full potential and goals. How many people use this stuff as an EXCUSE to not try anything?

Nobody will be liked by everybody, period. Much of this comes down to people beliving the approvoal of others is how to define self. Tired argument.

If only it was simple as not being liked.

If only images of black men didn't affect the way that some of them are treated by the legal system and victimized by law enforcement.

If only some people in power didn't use these very stereotypes to further unjust aims.

If only the media didn't have an impact on the psychology of our young

If only this "stuff" was simply "out there" doing no harm.

What a wonderful world it would be.

I'm glad there are people who recognize that one-sided choices are necessary but not sufficient.

I am not sure how recognizing the ills of the media equates to crying in our soup....go figure.

 

[jamaraa]

I am not sure where ancestors are trotted out to "shut down" discussions, but that's besides the point. I used slavery to draw a correlation and make a point. I'm not leery of historical accounts used in discussions, history serves to further my understanding. Frankly, I believe that we could use our history to improve our lives.

I know why you used slavery....that's frequently the reason it IS used. Frenquently....very frequently.

I certainly believe history CAN be used to make one's life better, but is that HOW it's being used? That's MY question. Color me a skeptic. I usually see history being used as a way to justify current Black Community dysfunction as opposed to being used to help build useful stratgeies for the present. Yes, we carry tons of krap from the past, but how does one use that to move forward in life? I rarely see usable solutions.

 

[Kurlee]

Funny thing about the bold, because I experienced exactly what you're talking about while canvassing for the Obama campaign. We had lists of people who had in some way indicated support for Obama and were going door to door to remind them to vote/see if they were still for Obama. Well...I can't tell you how many confused and/or angry middle aged Republican parents I encountered, as I was asking if their son or daughter was home. Basically, the college aged kids were pro-Obama, the parents clearly were not...and were not altogether happy about it.

I do think that we're at a point where very strong societal forces seem to be doing more to shape the thoughts and minds of young people than their parents are...unfortunately.


As far as the diff. b/w black men and black women in socializing, I guess men and women tend to be different in that women are simply more communal and so will seek that out. It could be that women--black, white or other--will always be more prone to seek out a comfortable group where they can belong.

Totally agree

 

[jamaraa]

If only it was simply as not being liked.

If only images of black men didn't affect the way that some of them are treated by the legal system and victimized by law enforcement.

If only some people in power didn't use these very stereotypes to further unjust aims.

If only the media didn't have an impact on the psychology of our young

If only this "stuff" was simply "out there" doing no harm.

What a wonderful world it would be.

I'm glad there are people who recognize that one-sided choices are necessary but not sufficient.

Yes...if ONLY. Reductionism at it's best!

 

[Kurlee]

It's easier for BM to bond with men of other races, because male bonding is different from female bonding. Sometimes all it takes is a can of beer and football for men to bond as buddies. Female bonding requires more depth, trust and emotion.

Confidence plays a part in black men's approach to women of other races. It seems that many black men believe that they are desired (at least sexually) by women of other races. Black women are more uncertain when it comes to their desirability. Afterall, we have a very troubled history with white men and are told that we're undesirable by the mainstream culture. The history and psychological conditioning shape how we react to people of other races.

I agree, men are much more shallow that way

I super agree with the second paragraph

 

[Kurlee]

Hmmm....
It's not simply lack of validation, though that alone is an issue. Most Black people can look around and see that "Blackness" is in general invalidated. In other words things that are associated with Black people/Black culture are generally given little/zero consideration; lack of media representation, historical Black figures excluded from school books, creations of Black/AA culture "white washed" before found acceptable and rarely credited back to Blacks, etc.. This would obviously make a group feel invalidated and marginalized.

Why Native Americans sooner gained acceptance would be too long to explain, but suffice it to say it's not entirely comparable.

I also said it's not limited to lack of validation, but rather active villinization from skin tone, hair types, body types, styles of speech/dress, historical origin (Africa land of savages or at best starving marvins), to the innocuous ways in which small things associated with Black ppl/non-Whites are viewed suspiciously or negatively.

So I stand my original statement. I understand why BP esp. BW self segregate because of the nature of the conformity expected.
Do I think it's a smart thing to do? No, but I understand why it occurs. I also find it peculiar that this mono-racial socializing is all low self esteem for BW, but "normal" when Whites and others do it.
When they don't explicitly ask about the racial nature of an event, org, have one Black friend it's noteworthy when in reality of course a majority group is not racially aware in the same way.

so on flippin point!

 

[SleekandBouncy]

Rewinding for a sec to the mention of how men make friendships. The nature of male relationships are vastly different and arguably less complicated than women.

Women more often look to social circles that they can relate to in multiple ways and are familiar. Men will compartmentalize and have friends for different purposes (sports friends, business friends, etc.). It's not unusual for men to talk/think disparagingly of a "friends" race, ethnicity, profession, etc. because really of those 50 friends only 4 might be real friends.
I've observed many professional Black men chumming it up only to talk later about "white folk ways" and clearly show that they seem themselves as separate.

BM also receive more validation from the mainstream for physical/athletic and entertainment value that might bleed into imbuing them the confidence to explore unfamiliar social settings.

Also, I think some ppl might be overestimating the degree to which BM socialize across racial barriers. It could be said that some of the achievement disparity between BM and BW has to do with just how poorly many BM are accepted or fear they'll be unaccepted and therefore never attempt to cross into certain professional/academic settings.

 

[Kurlee]

RE: BW being undesirable originating from BM

BM have sadly and most definitely run with it, but some of you need to do some research into the actual origin of the Angry Black Woman, the a-sexual Black female identity, etc.. I once took a really interesting class on just that subject, there has been extensive research and work written about it's history in the U.S..

And BTW precisely who's values do you think BM are trying to conform to when they look down upon BW and appear to uphold only the beauty of WW? Do you think that's random? Who's prize are they trying to steal in order to show they measure up? Right exactly. Who precisely do you think created that one standard that BM now idolize that is so in contrast to the aesthetic attributes of most BW?

This of course doesn't justify any of BM's nonsenses, but I need for folks to make their arguments in a way that sticks to the facts and truths.

 

[kbragg]

Ditto. I'm really at a loss to explain that one.
Another poster said that it's Black men who created the BW aren't undesirable thing so I was responding to that. Now all that is news to me esp. since I know it's the minority of BM I've ever encountered who aren't attracted to BW and any sentiments strictly to the opposite are generally in relation to them having bought into a mainstream beauty ideal and trying to prove their own worth by degrading BW.

Someone also mentioned Serena and how ESPN had their highest rating during that time. I don't really get how that's relevant esp. since that proves/disproves nothing in regards to who does/doesn't find them attractive esp. if you were on the tennis forums (as I was) during many of their matches and observed many of the comments which I'll refrain from repeating.

It's quite simple. A percentage of BW and BM (we can debate the percentage) got punked. It manifested differently. Some BM aspired to WM's power and status by procuring a WW (or as close to) and some BW aspired to some of the attributes possessed by White/non-BW believed to be admired by men esp. BM or aspired to have children which reflected desirable traits (light skin, good hair, etc.).

If you go back and look at the context of my comments I said the whole myth that black women are undesirable to men of other races primary comes from or perhaps a better phrase would be "pushed by" Black men. The message is men of other races would never want a black women so stop being stuck up and give Tyrone with 3 baby mommas a chance if you don't want to be single for ever

I used the Serena cover issue as an example that obviously men of other races find black women desirable because the demographics of the subscribers to that magazine are primarily other races. Tyra Banks & Naomi Campbell are also BW that are desired by men of other races.

The myth is pretty effective at keeping a lot of women as back pocket girls IMO.

Regardless of who created the Myth it's still a myth. And not to be little what our ancestors went through but that was their struggle not mine. I have never been a slave. I have never had to use a white's only rest room. I was born with the right to vote and freedom to be anything I want to be. I think if our ancestors could talk to us now they'd tell us to get off the Slavery is the cause of every problem in my life tip. They suffered through it so we wouldn't have to. The white man hasn't messed with our community in years. He may have started it, but we've taken over and are doing a much better job. It's like Christians who are contantly blaming the devil for everything. They devil can't be in more than 1 place at a time, he is not omni present. He may have planted the seed but you choose to water it and let it take root.

 

[SleekandBouncy]

If you go back and look at the context of my comments I said the whole myth that black women are undesirable to men of other races primary comes from or perhaps a better phrase would be "pushed by" Black men. The message is men of other races would never want a black women so stop being stuck up and give Tyrone with 3 baby mommas a chance if you don't want to be single for ever

I used the Serena cover issue as an example that obviously men of other races find black women desirable because the demographics of the subscribers to that magazine are primarily other races. Tyra Banks & Naomi Campbell are also BW that are desired by men of other races.

The myth is pretty effective at keeping a lot of women as back pocket girls IMO.

Regardless of who created the Myth it's still a myth. And not to be little what our ancestors went through but that was their struggle not mine. I have never been a slave. I have never had to use a white's only rest room. I was born with the right to vote and freedom to be anything I want to be. I think if our ancestors could talk to us now they'd tell us to get off the Slavery is the cause of every problem in my life tip. They suffered through it so we wouldn't have to. The white man hasn't messed with our community in years. He may have started it, but we've taken over and are doing a much better job. It's like Christians who are contantly blaming the devil for everything. They devil can't be in more than 1 place at a time, he is not omni present. He may have planted the seed but you choose to water it and let it take root.

I went by what you wrote. You said it "came from BLACK men" and "undesirable." Period. You didn't say "to men of other races" or "pushed", though you did go on to reference BW and WM.
You also blamed BW for being perceived as unapproachable because BW miss WM's signals, nevermind that BW were socialized to expect less than positive attention or that WM continue to uphold WW as the beauty standard so it's a bit simplistic to put the blame on BW. It may not have been your intention, but I got from that a very rosy view of race in which BW have long been the peach of WM's eyes and it's BW who didn't notice. I may think many BW's view too narrow, but I don't oversimplify it's origins.

Since you are amending it to "pushed" I agree that BM (and in a different way BW) are the foot soldiers of an ideology they did not create though it's naive to think White ppl don't still have a hand in propagating.
And yes it's BM who often claim BW are of little value to non-BM, to a great extent it's a universal male practice of downplaying the romantic options of women while they embrace multiplicity. Many WM claim (as my white GFs often mention) that BM are only using them for sex or only marry them to get back at "da White man" never mind that WM are marrying Asian women in high numbers. Men seem to be good for this. Biases often prevent us from seeing the consistency of human behavior acros various lines.

Also, the fact that BM more often say X about BW or BW say Y about BM is to be expected. Most commentary about a particular group usually comes from others within that group and is little evidence that others do/don't share the same thoughts. How often do WP even talk about BP or Chinese about Indians?

I am certain and happy that you are not a slave, do not use White only restrooms and all the rest I didn't even mention slavery

 

[Crackers Phinn]

Maybe this is the topic of a spinoff thread but I really would like to know more about how the college/career driven women are supposed to be super aggressive about finding a black husband during their "peak" youth and beauty years.

Because when I was in undergrad, doing the black student union, football-frat parties and singles youth group at the local black church in hindsight I can say that marriage was the last thing on the minds of men in my age group and the much older men seemed more focused on getting young booty as opposed to settling down.

Ya'll can call it settling if you want to, but when I graduated I walked out of school with a degree in one hand and a white fiance holding the other. And I know how folks feel about the I/R topic but phuck it, I got tired of coming up short ripping and running to all the 'black' events when all I had to do to find a man was show up to class and smile.

We talk about the tragedy of the black women who put all their energy into getting a career and then find themselves 30 something and alone, but really where are you going to tell a 18-28 yr old black woman to find a marriage minded black man? From all the reading I do around here and some other boards, the young'uns are having the same damn problem finding men to commit to monogamy let alone any talks about marriage.

 

[MA2010]

^^^^ Way OT but that gif in your siggy is HILARIOUS!!!!!

 

[UmSumayyah]

Always the black woman's fault, eh? When are we as a community going to hold our black men accountable? We make it far too easy for them! Teach them HOW TO BE MEN!!!!

Oh, well...

That would require men checking and providing consequences when other men act up. When does that happen?

I'll wait...

 

[Galadriel]

Great points. That's why I think our culture does us a disservice by devaluing marriage and hyping booty calls/casual relationships, promiscuity, and shacking up (I still say let's bring back courtship).
I was speaking with a single BFF and she *hates* the current dating scene b/c her personality and values don't match with men of the current climate (even men who she might find at "safe" events/places such as a church-related function for young adults). I swear, if anything ever happened and I was single again or widowed, I'd probably not even bother. erplexed
God bless single ladies b/c there are a lot of sleaze bags and devils out there.



It's a good move to find a fiance/husband at your "peak", but then I think you correctly pointed out that most guys in their 20s are just out for casual relationships.

Now, obviously the decent and marriage-minded 20-something guys exist--hmm...anyone have suggestions on where they're at?

Maybe this is the topic of a spinoff thread but I really would like to know more about how the college/career driven women are supposed to be super aggressive about finding a black husband during their "peak" youth and beauty years.

Because when I was in undergrad, doing the black student union, football-frat parties and singles youth group at the local black church in hindsight I can say that marriage was the last thing on the minds of men in my age group and the much older men seemed more focused on getting young booty as opposed to settling down.

Ya'll can call it settling if you want to, but when I graduated I walked out of school with a degree in one hand and a white fiance holding the other. And I know how folks feel about the I/R topic but phuck it, I got tired of coming up short ripping and running to all the 'black' events when all I had to do to find a man was show up to class and smile.

We talk about the tragedy of the black women who put all their energy into getting a career and then find themselves 30 something and alone, but really where are you going to tell a 18-28 yr old black woman to find a marriage minded black man? From all the reading I do around here and some other boards, the young'uns are having the same damn problem finding men to commit to monogamy let alone any talks about marriage.