What does it say when a man won't pay for dinner?

[sunnieb]

I don't either. Most of the time the server will just put the ticket together and place it in front of the man. I don't say a word, reach for the ticket, etc. I will toss an additional tip on the table for the server though.

I agree with your entire post, especially the bolded.

Ladies, do whatever you want, but in my opinion - please stop taking these sloppy leftovers so many of these men seem to be tossing out nowadays.

The following came straight from my husband's mouth - "If a man won't pay for a woman's meal when he asked her out, he doesn't care about her and is just trying to have sex with her. During the dating stage, a man is going to put his best foot forward for a woman he wants to keep. Paying for meals is the least he can do. A broke man has no reason to be dating. He should just be hanging out as friends and make it clear to the woman that that's all he's doing."

I know, I know this doesn't apply to all men, but I'm just telling you what a man said.

 

[luckiestdestiny]

Quote Originally Posted by RoxyScores View Post
No, I don't feel like I'm putting my self up for sale. Yes, I'm using my body to provide a service, but that's no different than a hairdresser using their hands to cut hair. The only reason why people would call it "selling your body" is because they have weird guilt/shame issues about their own naked body.

At my job I'm not trading real sexual favors, I'm flirting and dancing while naked. Like any job, it's well understood that customers have to pay us for our time. But in my real life, I have genuine relationships. I demand equal treatment and refuse to take a submissive role in relationships. I'm not trying to get anything out of men because I'm more than able to take care of myself. It's f*cked up that women are mainly valued for their youth and beauty and I won't use my femine wiles to take advantage of men in my real life. I'll only use them fairly, in the club where men know what to expect.

I enjoy subverting gender roles and get a kick out of switching between femme/submissive and masculine/dominant at work. I think my job's made me a better feminist. I've spent so much time with men, experienced patriarchy firsthand. I've seen them be ugly, controlling and competitive. But also I've seen men at their most vulnerable, have gotten paid to hold them while they cry and listen to their secrets. I have a much better understanding of masculinty now.

---previous quote by roxy scores

that's interesting. there are ppl who would consider stripping a sexual favor, but clearly you're not one of them and that's fine. i don't agree that viewing stripping as "selling your body" means that you have some guilt/shame about your own body lol... i think that's reaching. but the rest of your post was interesting.

its good that you're empowered in your personal relationships. i wasn't trying to imply that as a stripper that shouldn't be the case.

I, too, agree and understand some of what Roxy Scores is saying and also believe parts are reaching. If one sees stripping as a sexual favor (had an ex roomate who was a stripper. Came in at night saying her "pus-y" was sore from lap dances." I was like wha? Then she explained... Basically she sat on and pretty much masturbated a man, yes the clothes were a barrier, but she grinded him until he "released"...not sure if I see that as flirting as roxy put it. She was always soaking wet after stripping at the club, from grinding men, and of course performing on that bar, and she joked that she smelled like "pus-y juice and sweaty men" and needed a bath. I just don't find that empowering and I mean she also knew that. But to each their own.

I will say that it seems a contradiction if you think it's f--ked up to take advantage of men with sexual wiles, to do it in a club, but not in real life. It's like me as a writer, hating shucking in jivving and writing a madea movie for tyler perry, but I don't shuck and jive in real life so it's okay because I have standards....the idea doesn't seem quite noble.

As for the date thing, I'd never ask a guy out and I think the guy should pay. I think chivalry goes a long way, it's all about manners. I would occasionally offer to pay in a relationship(and mean it) but I've never met a guy that took me up on that. My fiance wouldn't hear of it.

I will say though that I don't think that if say, a guy makes less, that he should have to pay for expensive stuff. He can take you out for pizza, etc (depending on his salary).

 

[HollyGolightly]

I, too, agree and understand some of what Roxy Scores is saying and also believe parts are reaching. If one sees stripping as a sexual favor (had an ex roomate who was a stripper. Came in at night saying her "pus-y" was sore from lap dances." I was like wha? Then she explained... Basically she sat on and pretty much masturbated a man, yes the clothes were a barrier, but she grinded him until he "released"...not sure if I see that as flirting as roxy put it. She was always soaking wet after stripping at the club, from grinding men, and of course performing on that bar, and she joked that she smelled like "pus-y juice and sweaty men" and needed a bath. I just don't find that empowering and I mean she also knew that. But to each their own.

I will say that it seems a contradiction if you think it's f--ked up to take advantage of men with sexual wiles, to do it in a club, but not in real life. It's like me as a writer, hating shucking in jivving and writing a madea movie for tyler perry, but I don't shuck and jive in real life so it's okay because I have standards....the idea doesn't seem quite noble.

As for the date thing, I'd never ask a guy out and I think the guy should pay. I think chivalry goes a long way, it's all about manners. I would occasionally offer to pay in a relationship(and mean it) but I've never met a guy that took me up on that. My fiance wouldn't hear of it.

I will say though that I don't think that if say, a guy makes less, that he should have to pay for expensive stuff. He can take you out for pizza, etc (depending on his salary).

Whoa, if your vadge is sore from grinding during a lapdance, then you're definitely doing something wrong! You are not supposed to be getting the guy off during a dance. One, that's gross. Two, that's bad hustling. Once you get a guy off, he's done spending money. The idea is to keep the custie entertained and spending money for as long as possible so that you can drain their bank account. Was your roommate an inexperienced stripper or did she work in a grimy club? Because most experienced strippers know how to play the game and how to keep clean while at work. (Baby wipes, spray deoderant, body spray, and the club shower). Strippers are supposed to smell delicious, I don't understand how she could sell dances when she's all sweaty and funky.

I don't feel bad about being a good salesperson. It's fair because customers know that when they step into the club that women are going to be trying to sell them dances. But in real life, things are murkier. Men don't know if the woman they're dating actually likes them or is only trying to get a free meal. I don't feel the need to hustle men in my real life, so I only use my persuasive techniques when it's fair and appropriate.

 

[luckiestdestiny]

Whoa, if your vadge is sore from grinding during a lapdance, then you're definitely doing something wrong! You are not supposed to be getting the guy off during a dance. One, that's gross. Two, that's bad hustling. Once you get a guy off, he's done spending money. The idea is to keep the custie entertained and spending money for as long as possible so that you can drain their bank account. Was your roommate an inexperienced stripper or did she work in a grimy club? Because most experienced strippers know how to play the game and how to keep clean while at work. (Baby wipes, spray deoderant, body spray, and the club shower). Strippers are supposed to smell delicious, I don't understand how she could sell dances when she's all sweaty and funky.

I don't feel bad about being a good salesperson. It's fair because customers know that when they step into the club that women are going to be trying to sell them dances. But in real life, things are murkier. Men don't know if the woman they're dating actually likes them or is only trying to get a free meal. I don't feel the need to hustle men in my real life, so I only use my persuasive techniques when it's fair and appropriate.

Maybe she was. She said it was up scale...and she was stripping for a while (several years) and had been to different clubs. I just assumed that's the way it "was". You've given me something to think about.

about the whole sweaty funky thing. ...I just thought the whole thing was pretty disgusting if you have to go through all that for some money. I guess she sold dances because she only stripped one-2 weeks and was able to pay her rent, buy everything she needed, and she was always shopping. So I guess she got the job done.

 

[ThickHair]

Summa ya'll setting yourselves up to be in some messed up future situations and thats all Imm say about that.

Girl you know they independent and don't need a man to pay for their meal and want to be treated equal, but want a man to be the head of the household.............................(replaying the animated skit)

 

[Chocolate_Silk]

I can't get with that... She could have gone with her girlfriends if that is the case.

 

[MsYoYo]

If a guy pays for your meal he could STILL only want sex from you.

 

[BrownBetty]

That he dooesn't need to be dating.



A good friend of mine has a brother who a lot of my female friends are interested in. They have been trying to get his attention, but he hasn't responded to any of them. Finally, his sister asked him about it. And he stated he is currently unemployed, and though he is searching for work, and he isn't broke, he isn't in any position to be able to take care of a woman, so therefore he is not asking anyone out. Makes perfect sense to me.

This!

My cuz asked me would I date a guy who was unemployed. I told him the type of man I like realizes that he shouldn't be dating if he isn't employed. Tell ole boy I said biggups!

To the post, the guy should of suggested something cheaper and nice. I've gone out to really nice local spots where the bill is cheap.

 

[Chanteuse]

Oh, I'll just post that portion too.
We both sort of decided to meet for dinner a few days earlier. She was like we should do dinner sometime. And I told her yeah lets meet at this nice Mexican place on Tuesday.

And clarifying these sort of things before meeting up just makes me really uncomfortable. I never really know how to deal with such matters.

So - technically she made a general suggestion that they have dinner at some time in the future and he formalized the suggestion by putting forth a time and the place. That does not qualify as her asking him out IMO. I'm curious to know if he was interested in the girl or saw her as just a friend. If he was interested then he absolutely should have paid - regardless of who suggested it. If he wasn't interested then - well he got his point across

Personally, I have never dated a man that had the audacity to ask me to pay for my portion of a date. If a guy did ever ask me to pay then I would assume that a)- it wasn't a date and b)- he wasn't interested in anything more than a platonic relationship - which is all he would eligible for by then anyway . There are just entirely too many men out there who would love an opportunity to spend money on me for me to be dealing with a cheapskate. Not to sound arrogant but . . . #kanyeshrug

That's not to say that I would never spend money on a guy - if I really liked him and he had already spent lots of money on me - but he must never, ever ask me to pay.

Disclaimer: I'm talking about the initial dating stages where you are getting to know someone. Once you're in a relationship the "rules" can change a bit.

 

[sunnieb]

If a guy pays for your meal he could STILL only want sex from you.

Of course! They're MEN! A man could see a woman walking down the street and want sex from her. However, I seriously doubt a man who ONLY wants sex from a woman will continue to take her out to nice places and pay for everything. He's just going to move on to his next victim.

 

[zzirvingj]

It not only says that he is cheap, but that he's just not that into you. You aren't worth paying the meal for. Usually the guy asks the girl out, or at least is the pursuer, then he needs to pay. Its a first date, it really isn't that serious. If he can't do that then then there's a problem.

Now, the woman should offer to pay on subsequent dates, or at least to split in half, particularly if she is the one to initiate. I'd feel uneasy as a guy if I was always pressured to pay for everything for months. I still believe in chivalry though. And I think men who claim they are into feminism are just using it as an excuse: most of these same men would never make the plates or feed the kids later on down the line, but act like you're wrong for expecting chivalry. They only pick and choose when they want to invoke the "feminism" excuse but largely denounce feminism in public.

I'm honestly tired of the way men have responded to the feminist movement by "allowing" us to work and do what they do, but doing nothing to help ease our burdens anymore while retracting chivalry at the same time. We've only got more work and sacrifices now and they have less. There were once wives/mothers and working men; now there are working wives/mothers/women and working men. Most men haven't adopted the working husband/father/man role that it would take to balance things out. To the point where now they can't even pay for a damn $8.50 plate.

One of the realest (is that a word? lol) posts EVER.

 

[CurlyMoo]

I see a lot of people need to learn dating etiquette. It's a lost art, folks are just milling around doing whatever. Men pay for dinner unless otherwise agreed upon who will pay. Regardless of feminism and modern age blah blah. If it's a dutch date then that should be made clear before the date not after the check arrrives. If a man does that, it means he is a poor communicator, disorganized, cheap and manipulative. A major red flag.

Due to the fact that poor communination and awkward situations are the norm thses days, if I ask the guy out, then I will do so with the intent to pay. In fact I am very upfront with telling him that it's my treat when I ask.

The problem with this situation is that it appears the girl is interested in the guy, so she asked him out. Most men would go ahead and pay for the date regardless of who asked. He should have been upfront and said he was strapped for cash, so that she could decided if she wanted to proceed.

 

[Ms. Alainious]

My SO always pays. If I offered (and i did at one point), he would say that my company was payment enough. He sets aside money every week (the entertainment fund) for us to do things.

When I was in college, yes I was broke, but I can't recall ever being asked to split. Even when I went out with my male friends, the most we'd do was alternate (He pays dinner, I buy movie tix, etc.)

If I like someone enough to ask them to share a meal with me, then I like them enough to pay for their food.

 

[ScorpioBeauty09]

If a man won't pay for dinner, it says this guy is not someone I should be spending time with. I've been out with guys who are just friends who end up paying for dinner sometimes. Not always and I don't expect it if it's not a date but please... NEXT!!!

 

[Lovelylife]

He's not willing to sacrifice for the family. Although paying for the female's meal is a small, small issue the meaning behind is significant. He probably wants the girl to play her womanly role while he receives all the benefits and gives nothing back.

 

[Lovelylife]

In the wrapped portion, he said "dinner date". If he's a broke Uni. student, he shouldn't be taking girls on dinner dates. (Is there a link or something, cause I didn't get this 'meet-up' thing from what was posted)

Exactly, he wants all the sex and companionship but he's not even willing to provide for female.

 

[frida1980]

Curiously, I've found the best way to get back at a guy that has the audacity to ask that. I'll just pay WHOLE check, with my Amex diamond. And I will make it sound like he's poor and of need of assistance. Just like this:

"We need to split this."

" Huh. Ok."

As soon as the servey drops the check, I put my hands on it stick a credit card in the pocket and hand it back to him/her.

" Thanks so much, we really liked the meal."

"You don't have to pay for..."

"Well I know your broke because of your situation, so I decided I'd treat. We're friends aren't we?"

Nothing more emasculating than like announcing to the public he's poor and can't pay for his own meal and he's just a friend.

 

[nappystorm]

^^Child please. That ninja is just going to be happy that he not only got out of paying for you, but he also got a free meal out of the deal. Trust, he will be laughing at you a few hours later with his partnas or the chick he does likes enough to treat. Men don't care about stuff like that especially if they are not into you.

 

[lesedi]

^^Child please. That ninja is just going to be happy that he not only got out of paying for you, but he also got a free meal out of the deal. Trust, he will be laughing at you a few hours later with his partnas or the chick he does likes enough to treat. Men don't care about stuff like that especially if they are not into you.

Bolded for emphasis.

 

[frida1980]

^^Child please. That ninja is just going to be happy that he not only got out of paying for you, but he also got a free meal out of the deal. Trust, he will be laughing at you a few hours later with his partnas or the chick he does likes enough to treat. Men don't care about stuff like that especially if they are not into you.

You're right. I keep forgetting that the men that won't pay or don't pay have no pride in themselves as a man. So who cares if a woman pays for him. That's exactly what he wants.

It reminds me one night when I saw a woman buying a PS3 and Xbox 360 for her man, when she had a small infant in tow. It was obvious she didn't have a lot of cash to throw around, so it was sad to see her wasting money on a man when she had a baby to feed. What's worse than having a man that is so cheap that he refuses to pay for a $10 meal, is that he wants overworked women to pay him to stick around.

I changed my mind again. If he asks me to split, I'll consider going to the bathroom and sneak out when he's not looking. j/k I'll just pay my half and ignore him.

 

[zzirvingj]

Don't mean to go slightly off topic but I wanted to chime in with an experience I had last week. I went out with a guy and I was the one to pay. I've only known him for a couple of weeks and this was our second time going out.

The thing was this: when he asked me out he suggested the dinner spot. It's a popular spot and not exactly cheap, but I had a bad experience there and do not care for their food, service or even their atmosphere all that much. So I suggested a couple of other spots (places I had Scoutmob/Groupon certificates, etc. to ...and we agreed on one of my spots.

He took his wallet out when it looked like the waiter was about to bring the check and I told him it was going to be my treat tonight. He was honestly pretty shocked, as in I had to repeat myself. Then he looked a little confused and insisted he pay. I was like, it's okay, I just told you it's my treat. He said he didn't want things to be "weird" and when I asked him what he meant by that, he kinda stuttered a little and before giving an explanation I said exactly what was on my mind, that, "I really wasn't putting that much thought into me treating you tonite, and I don't think you should either." He finally gracefully said "Thank you" and put his wallet away. (But boy did he have the most appreciative looking smile on his face after that...)

Now, I'm usually not a persistent person, but I know he's a good guy and wanted to pay. That makes all the difference to me. I would have let him do it but I just happened not to mind that night. Especially since we ended up at the spot I really wanted to go to and not necessarily where he wanted. And the fact that I had the Scoutmob coupon for HALF off made me think, "Hell, if there's any time I'm going to be treating someone, it's going to be tonite!" lol I mean, I basically paid for drinks and dinner for what I'd pay for just myself anyway. And I honestly don't know when I will be treating anyone to dinner again...probably no time soon at all.

**Question: Do you think I have set a precedence now for this guy to expect me to continue doing that sort of thing (offering to pay 'all' the time)?

I tend to think, at least my intuition is telling me...that he would not expect it, but consider it to be a bonus if it happened. But the fact that we had a short conversation about it says he's not used to it and although he would be open to it, does not prefer it to be that way.

 

[lesedi]

^^^^^^
It's a tricky one. I get what you are saying but this shouldn't have happened on a first-date scenario. The fact that he offered to pay gives him points though.I just don't think you should offer again for a while.

 

[zzirvingj]

^^Why do you say it shouldn't have happened?

It was actually our second 'date' out.

Like I mentioned, it would probably be a long time before I had the opportunity to offer again also...

 

[lesedi]

^^^^^
I feel like you may have put the idea in his head. He sounds like a great guy but maybe subconsciously he won't feel the urge to chase as much?? JMO
I completely get where you are coming from but men's logic has a tendency to differ from ours.

 

[zzirvingj]

^^^^^
I feel like you may have put the idea in his head. He sounds like a great guy but maybe subconsciously he won't feel the urge to chase as much?? JMO
I completely get where you are coming from but men's logic has a tendency to differ from ours.

Oh ok...I totally get where you're coming from. I thought you were going to say that maybe he is now wondering if *I* was looking at the dinner as more of a dinner between friends than a 'date' since I offered. That is actually what I'm thinking he may be wondering about now...I am not sure...

But....to be completely honest I don't even know if I want to be pursued by this person now. I think in the back of my mind that was a big part of why I didn't care and offered without much of any thought.

 

[ThickHair]

zzirvingj, I would have let him pay. Other than you not liking the 1st place for personal reasons, I don't understand why you were so pressed to pay? What's up with that? It seems you are a bit controlling. I know that may be over stretching but come on lady.

 

[nappystorm]

You're right. I keep forgetting that the men that won't pay or don't pay have no pride in themselves as a man. So who cares if a woman pays for him. That's exactly what he wants.

It reminds me one night when I saw a woman buying a PS3 and Xbox 360 for her man, when she had a small infant in tow. It was obvious she didn't have a lot of cash to throw around, so it was sad to see her wasting money on a man when she had a baby to feed. What's worse than having a man that is so cheap that he refuses to pay for a $10 meal, is that he wants overworked women to pay him to stick around.

I changed my mind again. If he asks me to split, I'll consider going to the bathroom and sneak out when he's not looking. j/k I'll just pay my half and ignore him.

That would be your best bet. I've had the good fortune of having brothers and lots platonic male friends. Men take from the women they aren't really feeling and provide for the women they are. No matter thier financial situation.
One of my brothers had women buying him clothes, furniture, shoes, jewelry, etc.erplexed The girl he wanted to marry, he provide for her and her daughter. My best friend is the same way. My friend's BD does not support his child and only come around when he needs something but he has always provided for his current gf (who used to be her friend but that's another thread).

I recently had one of those post break up convos with an ex that I left a few years ago. I explained that I left because he was emotional unavailable, he never wanted me He explained that he did want me and even took a "loss" by being with me He started telling me about all the girls he had buying him and his friends things, treating him to dates, giving dome without anything in return. He would have girls pick him up at the curb because he didn't want them to meet his family (he had his own place but he lived next door). Again

Now this came as a complete shock to me because he always treated, he always initiated contacted, he always came to see me, he always gave me money when needed, his mom said he would come home check his phone and if I hadn't called he would give them hell all day We had our issues but him leeching was never one of them.

 

[zzirvingj]

zzirvingj, I would have let him pay. Other than you not liking the 1st place for personal reasons, I don't understand why you were so pressed to pay? What's up with that? It seems you are a bit controlling. I know that may be over stretching but come on lady.

Hhmmm...let's put it this way:

I mentioned this scenario because I wanted to know what women's opinions were about it. I am definitely seeing a difference. I mentioned this same scenario to two guy friends of mine (close platonic friends) and their reaction was both basically, "Who the h#ll cares?" lol

In regards to asking me why was I so pressed to pay...why didn't you ask why 'he' was so pressed to pay? Would he be considered a bit controlling since I offered and he countered my offer? I am just playing devil's advocate here. Which is why I asked if people thought I had set a precedence. I didn't give much thought to paying at all that night and I didn't because I think of things like this:

If a guy changes up his actions in a negative way based on me treating him to dinner one night, one thing's for sure; he ain't the one for me and that would become apparent real quick. I just don't see something that simple having that much of an effect on a real man's intentions is all. Am I wrong or naive to think that? I don't know.

***The most interesting thing I'm seeing is the difference in women's and men's opinions about this very scenario, though.

In regards to being controlling, I have to honestly say to you that no, I'm not a controlling person. I'm actually pretty submissive/passive. I can kinda see why you may have made that assumption though since there was a little bit of assertiveness on my part that night...just a little. Which I admit was nice to experience because like I said, I can be a pretty passive/laid back person.

 

[nappystorm]

zzirvingj, I would have let him pay. Other than you not liking the 1st place for personal reasons, I don't understand why you were so pressed to pay? What's up with that? It seems you are a bit controlling. I know that may be over stretching but come on lady.

Hhmmm...let's put it this way:

I mentioned this scenario because I wanted to know what women's opinions were about it. I am definitely seeing a difference. I mentioned this same scenario to two guy friends of mine (close platonic friends) and their reaction was both basically, "Who the h#ll cares?" lol

In regards to asking me why was I so pressed to pay...why didn't you ask why 'he' was so pressed to pay? Would he be considered a bit controlling since I offered and he countered my offer? I am just playing devil's advocate here. Which is why I asked if people thought I had set a precedence. I didn't give much thought to paying at all that night and I didn't because I think of things like this:

If a guy changes up his actions in a negative way based on me treating him to dinner one night, one thing's for sure; he ain't the one for me and that would become apparent real quick. I just don't see something that simple having that much of an effect on a real man's intentions is all. Am I wrong or naive to think that? I don't know.
***The most interesting thing I'm seeing is the difference in women's and men's opinions about this very scenario, though.

In regards to being controlling, I have to honestly say to you that no, I'm not a controlling person. I'm actually pretty submissive/passive. I can kinda see why you may have made that assumption though since there was a little bit of assertiveness on my part that night...just a little. Which I admit was nice to experience because like I said, I can be a pretty passive/laid back person.

I don't understand that "lets fight over who pays the check" game either. I agree with the bolded but some of my more traditional male friends and relatives says it makes them uncomfortable when a woman insists on paying. I remember being rather uncomfortable because some dude insisted on greasing my scalp because "it's romantic"

 

[zzirvingj]

I don't understand that "lets fight over who pays the check" game either. I agree with the bolded but some of my more traditional male friends and relatives says it makes them uncomfortable when a woman insists on paying. I remember being rather uncomfortable because some dude insisted on greasing my scalp because "it's romantic"

@ the "greasing your scalp" comment: You almost made me spit out my banana just now LOL...

It really would have made for an uncomfortable moment if there had been *any* more conversation about who paid beyond what happened that night. If he had said anything else about it he would've been paying LOL. I don't want to make anyone uncomfortable.