Cut Buddy

[Mortons]

Expecting a man to take you out for a a meal, lend you money for your phone bill, or pay for a new purse isn't sex work.

What do you think sugar babies and escorts do? That means all successful women navigate relationships In a similar manner to them, which is perfectly fine imo.

 

[aribell]

So why champion casual sex for money? Either it's bad or it's not. Either it messes up the game or it doesn't. Either it keeps men from getting married or it doesn't.

I didnt champion sex for money. If you are referring to my post, I said that women used to be able to easily establish their worth, whatever that was; but men expected and accepted that they would be required to make an investment on that woman's terms of they wanted access to her. Thats not necessarily about money. His devotion and commitment would be the investment the "marrying kind" required. I actually think the post made the distinction pretty clearly. Devotion might be shown through things he does for her, but devotion is the point.

But most men would choose commitment over prostitution if those were the main options available. I'm on my tablet so can't get into the arguements for why, but women at all levels have gotten much more out of men when sex cost them something.

 

[Femmefatal1981]

I agree about relationships being reciprocal. You can get all this without sex though because as a woman, your time is valuable. But that's not what people were alluding to and y'all know it.

I don't know about that. What I see being said is being some dude's f-buddy is stupid. You you simply must engage in that type of thing at least get something besides a nut out of it.

 

[Southernbella.]

I don't know about that. What I see being said is being some dude's f-buddy is stupid. You you simply must engage in that type of thing at least get something besides a nut out of it.

So then what is being said is that casual sex is cool as long as you are getting something out of it. Which still doesn't solve the problem people were complaining about in the first place.

 

[barbiesocialite]

Dating is never free, I agree. We're talking about sex though. And in the latter half of this thread, there have been several posts about geisha life, p*ssy ain't free, if you're gonna have casual sex, get more than fun out of it, etc. Like I said, I agree with all of it. But I don't see how it's any less harmful to marriage than one night stands or cut buddies.

I can only speak for myself but if your number is saved in my phone I see you as an investment. You are a commitment. Be it short term or long term, still a commitment. Emotional and social investment. If not, that means you aren't worth my time. I dont need to know you. Cut buddies and FWB are clear investments. They benefit men more than women. Women produce oxytocin, men don't. So if you are climaxing, dude knows your spot you are sharing and investing yourself HABITUALLY and CONTINUOUSLY with a man that will give you absolutely nothing in return for your investment besides a good time. This is not about money. If a woman is sharing herself--again, her body, her time-- on a regular basis with a man she needs to ensure all of the effort will work to her benefit in the long run. Cut buddies and FWB are poor investments. Boyfriends are more likely to be better investments. One night stands are virtually no investment at all but still less emotional and social cost than having a cut buddy.

eta: let's be clear, I dont advocate heauxdom. Some women are hell bent on being heauxs or having a heaux phase. no problem, if that's the case usually FWB and cut buddies dont work out long term. I've rarely seen this setup end positively for a woman. The women that say they do are silly broads like a few I know who are really hurting on the inside after enjoying their orgasm because they really like they guy which is why they keep calling him to come hit it.

 

[Femmefatal1981]

So then what is being said is that casual sex is cool as long as you are getting something out of it. Which still doesn't solve the problem people were complaining about in the first place.

*if* access to free, easy sex is the problem. If it's not free or easy how does that not solve the problem.

 

[Southernbella.]

I didnt champion sex for money. If you are referring to my post, I said that women used to be able to easily establish their worth, whatever that was; but men expected and accepted that they would be required to make an investment on that woman's terms of they wanted access to her. Thats not necessarily about money. His devotion and commitment would be the investment the "marrying kind" required. I actually think the post made the distinction pretty clearly. Devotion might be shown through things he does for her, but devotion is the point.

But most men would choose commitment over prostitution if those were the main options available. I'm on my tablet so can't get into the arguements for why, but women at all levels have gotten much more out of men when sex cost something.

I wasn't referring to your post. My question was rhetorical given where the thread was headed. But I agree with this. And I don't think sex has much to do with it.

 

[Southernbella.]

*if* access to free, easy sex is the problem. If it's not free or easy how does that not solve the problem.

Because it still doesn't require marriage.

 

[Southernbella.]

I can only speak for myself but if your number is saved in my phone I see you as an investment. You are a commitment. Be it short term or long term, still a commitment. Emotional and social investment. If not, that means you aren't worth my time. I dont need to know you. Cut buddies and FWB are clear investments. They benefit men more than women. Women produce oxytocin, men don't. So if you are climaxing, dude knows your spot you are sharing and investing yourself HABITUALLY and CONTINUOUSLY with a man that will give you absolutely nothing in return for your investment besides a good time. This is not about money. If a woman is sharing herself--again, her body, her time-- on a regular basis with a man she needs to ensure all of the effort will work to her benefit in the long run. Cut buddies and FWB are poor investments. Boyfriends are more likely to be better investments. One night stands are virtually no investment at all but still less emotional and social cost than having a cut buddy.

eta: let's be clear, I dont advocate heauxdom. Some women are hell bent on being heauxs or having a heaux phase. no problem, if that's the case usually FWB and cut buddies dont work out long term. I've rarely seen this setup end positively for a woman. The women that say they do are silly broads like a few I know who are really hurting on the inside after enjoying their orgasm because they really like they guy which is why they keep calling him to come hit it.

I get this, and I think it takes a certain type of woman to have a cut buddy and not become invested. But I have known a couple. One is currently married, the other WAS married (and not to the cut buddies ). My point is, some women are able to do this and don't care about the long run or what else they are getting. Some women don't even want to get married. But bottom line is it's happening, it will continue to happen, and while these ideas are good in theory, they do nothing to change the reality.

 

[barbiesocialite]

I get this, and I think it takes a certain type of woman to have a cut buddy and not become invested. But I have known a couple. One is currently married, the other WAS married (and not to the cut buddies ). My point is, some women are able to do this and don't care about the long run or what else they are getting. Some women don't even want to get married. But bottom line is it's happening, it will continue to happen, and while these ideas are good in theory, they do nothing to change the reality.

I know one loose woman with cut buddies and about 4 fakes that claim they can maintain a cut buddy.

The married sluts usually arent the cut buddy type. They are the college one night standers or the ones that can't maintain a long term relationship so they have a bunch of boyfriends that didnt work out so they slept their way to one that finally stuck. These are not the women we are discussing. We are discussing the average type of women that solicit and maintain FWB/cut buddies. IRL that mess is ugly. So selling to young women the idea they will be the unicorn woman that can maintain sex with no strings attached is toxic, irresponsible, dangerous and detrimental to young women.

I dont believe in advocating things to others that I havent done myself and lived to see that it works IRL. Living vicariously through other women is not the way to go. Because again, you never know what others are going through in the reality. That said, I'd like to hear from the successful casual sexers? Not just one. since there are numerous women that have commented in this thread, I'd imagine there must be numerous women that have happy casual sex stories with no strings attached with no regrets?

 

[FemmeFatale]

I didnt champion sex for money. If you are referring to my post, I said that women used to be able to easily establish their worth, whatever that was; but men expected and accepted that they would be required to make an investment on that woman's terms of they wanted access to her. Thats not necessarily about money. His devotion and commitment would be the investment the "marrying kind" required. I actually think the post made the distinction pretty clearly. Devotion might be shown through things he does for her, but devotion is the point. But most men would choose commitment over prostitution if those were the main options available. I'm on my tablet so can't get into the arguements for why, but women at all levels have gotten much more out of men when sex cost them something.

Yep...

I think the conversation transitioned to how the hookup culture is partially responsible for "cheapening" the dating scene which is a fair assessment. Many guys now expect to hit it by the second date and instead of the women telling them politely to gtfoh they now feel pressured and hopeless.

Women say they want a la carte sex (like Samantha) but also want loving marriages and babies (like Charlotte) and instead of being strategic and focused they're wasting time and clouding their judgement w/ senseless d*. Many never learn how to leverage the many opportunities much less close the deal. And let's not forget the potential to get caught up in drama, become a single parent, or infected with some STD..it's just not wise to me at all to me.

 

[barbiesocialite]

btw, can I add that marriage isnt the end all and be all on the issue of sex.

However, being a woman of value is.

Being a woman of value means that one can look at your life, witness and experience how men treat you that's a clear indicator that you are a woman of value. This means the men in your life respect you and treat you like queen. You are always on a pedestal. You dont have to call a man for sex. Men arent calling you for sex. The issue of OOW babies isnt an issue because any man that knocks you up would naturally demand and want to marry you.....

 

[barbiesocialite]

I didnt champion sex for money. If you are referring to my post, I said that women used to be able to easily establish their worth, whatever that was; but men expected and accepted that they would be required to make an investment on that woman's terms of they wanted access to her. Thats not necessarily about money. His devotion and commitment would be the investment the "marrying kind" required. I actually think the post made the distinction pretty clearly. Devotion might be shown through things he does for her, but devotion is the point.

But most men would choose commitment over prostitution if those were the main options available. I'm on my tablet so can't get into the arguements for why, but women at all levels have gotten much more out of men when sex cost them something.

I refuse to believe that intelligent women would believe that worth = money. That's so basic.

 

[Southernbella.]

I know one loose woman with cut buddies and about 4 fakes that claim they can maintain a cut buddy.

The married sluts usually arent the cut buddy type. They are the college one night standers or the ones that can't maintain a long term relationship so they have a bunch of boyfriends that didnt work out so they slept their way to one that finally stuck. These are not the women we are discussing. We are discussing the average type of women that solicit and maintain FWB/cut buddies. IRL that mess is ugly. So selling to young women the idea they will be the unicorn woman that can maintain sex with no strings attached is toxic, irresponsible, dangerous and detrimental to young women.

I dont believe in advocating things to others that I havent done myself and lived to see that it works IRL. Living vicariously through other women is not the way to go. Because again, you never know what others are going through in the reality. That said, I'd like to hear from the successful casual sexers? Not just one. since there are numerous women have commented in this thread, I'd imagine there must be numerous women that have happy casual sex stories with no strings attached with no regrets?

Nobody is selling it to them. They already believe it and are doing it. So what is the end game? To make casual sexers feel bad? Because from what I've seen, that doesn't work.

I don't think anyone here has advocated for teaching young girls to do this. Just that it's reality and folks need to navigate the scene accordingly.

 

[barbiesocialite]

Nobody is selling it to them. They already believe it and are doing it. So what is the end game? To make casual sexers feel bad? Because from what I've seen, that doesn't work.

There is no end game. This is about real life. Helping black women live productive and successful personal/romantic lives that work to their benefit not to their detriment.

I don't believe in playing with people's real lives via theory, hypotheticals, speculating and using them as guinea pigs. Part of the reason I'm no longer a feminist, but that's another thread....

Some things work. They are proven to work. Being a heaux rarely works. Being a 40-year old virgin rarely works. There is a middle ground. Casual sex ain't it.

 

[Southernbella.]

There is no end game. This is about real life. Helping black women live productive and successful personal/romantic lives that work to their benefit not to their detriment.

I don't believe in playing with people's real lives via theory, hypotheticals, speculating and using them as guinea pigs. Part of the reason I'm no longer a feminist, but that's another thread....

Some things work. They are proven to work. Being a heaux rarely works. Being a 40-year old virgin rarely works. There is a middle ground. Casual sex ain't it.

Unfortunately, everything in here is theory because reality doesn't line up with anything any of us have said. That's all I've been saying. The game has changed. Folks are having casual sex because they enjoy it. People need to figure out their own game plan and act accordingly because nobody is going to stop doing what they like so that other women can get mates.

 

[barbiesocialite]

Unfortunately, everything in here is theory because reality doesn't line up with anything any of us have said. That's all I've been saying. The game has changed. Folks are having casual sex because they enjoy it. People need to figure out their own game plan and act accordingly because nobody is going to stop doing what they like so that other women can get mates.

You are correct.

It's looking pretty hopeless for many women. Specifically black women. Which is why I have no investment in feminism or saving people that can't be saved. Sad scenario. It is what it is. Those of us that can do well and have been taught better will survive and progress. The rest...wep....kinda sux for them....

but better them than me.

I try to care though. Hence my posts in this thread and why I give a damn what my frivolous loved ones do even though I know it's all going to end up pretty tragic in the end. Life, Womanhood. It';s survival of the fittest woman. some women arent fit and will never be, But just like with other groups throughout history some people will eliminate themselves....

 

[Mortons]

^^^Plenty of tragic yet married men and women. Plenty.

 

[Southernbella.]

You are correct.

It's looking pretty hopeless for many women. Specifically black women. Which is why I have no investment in feminism or saving people that can't be saved. Sad scenario. It is what it is. Those of us that can do well and have been taught better will survive and progress. The rest...wep....kinda sux for them....

but better them than me.

I try to care though. Hence my posts in this thread and why I give a damn what my frivolous loved ones do even though I know it's all going to end up pretty tragic in the end. Life, Womanhood. It';s survival of the fittest woman. some women arent fit and will never be, But just like with other groups throughout history some people will eliminate themselves....

I know you do. I think you have a really good heart and you want the best for black women but you are right in that you can't save everyone. And everyone doesn't want our kind of saving. Tradition is dying, for better or for worse. Who knows what the landscape will look like in 20 years.

 

[barbiesocialite]

I know you do. I think you have a really good heart and you want the best for black women but you are right in that you can't save everyone. And everyone doesn't want our kind of saving. Tradition is dying, for better or for worse. Who knows what the landscape will look like in 20 years.

I've enjoyed this debate Southernbella. good luck on your doctoral journey.


IDK. This is just one of those things. I'm just not sure if there is a right answer. Or maybe I just don't know it.

 

[barbiesocialite]

^^^Plenty of tragic yet married men and women. Plenty.

why are you in this thread talking to me about married people.

you just got off of work? read the posts.

 

[Mortons]

why are you in this thread talking to me about married people. you just got off of work? read the posts.

Hell no yall talk too much. I ain't catching up lol.

Just meant to say that because they are tragic doesn't mean they won't get married. The one who recently asked me to marry her is semi tragic and has been married 2 times. Keep hope alive for your homegirls. Don't play them short.

 

[Southernbella.]

I've enjoyed this debate Southernbella. good luck on your doctoral journey.

IDK. This is just one of those things. I'm just not sure if there is a right answer. Or maybe I just don't know it.

Thank you. I've enjoyed it too. It made me think about some things.

I'm mad you wished me luck. I was in here avoiding homework. How did you know?

 

[barbiesocialite]

Hell no yall talk too much. I ain't catching up lol.

Just meant to say that because they are tragic doesn't mean they won't get married. The one who recently asked me to marry her is semi tragic and has been married 2 times. Keep hope alive for your homegirls. Don't play them short.

Aye don't play my homegirls. I got sense and the gift of discernment. my girls got da game down packed! *bloop*

These are people I'm bonded to by blood and/or marriage. The ones mentioned--by marriage. ish ain't the business. Can't shake em. If I wasnt the oldest I would be mean as hell to their silly butts! so glad they can't read my posts.

Then again, if they could, I can fix it.

*you know you like my swag girl* yea, I'm winkin at you @Mortons

 

[FelaShrine]

Expecting a man to take you out for a a meal, lend you money for your phone bill, or pay for a new purse isn't sex work. If that's the case I've been a sex worker since I was 16 when my Aunt sat me down and gave me the best advice ever: your time is valuable, and any man who wants to spend time with you should know that & act act accordingly.

Relationships are supposed to be reciprocal. If I'm not getting something I want out of it then what's the point? And since I can get my own "happy ending" he's gonna have to do better than that.

however if people wanna call that sex work, thats fine too as I find that to be western logic.It's accepted and common everywhere else.

 

[CurlyMoo]

lol

I feel bad.

sometimes.

I'm in trouble about a topic similar to this. I have to fix. It ain't lookin good. Pray for me. She's not a heaux but she's mad. I think I effed up. We might need to talk. All these women and their emotions.


but yea so about this free sex idea........

I had a friendship end over this type of conversation.

 

[DrC]

Women just need to do what they want to do stop worrying about what people think and what other women's vaginas are doing. Some women enjoy sex and some women don't, and some only enjoy sex in a committed relationship - just do you, there is someone for everyone.

True. I'm also wondering why people make it as it's black and white. Like women are incapable of having sex without emotions and/or (in some countries) aren't allowed pleasure. The biggest lie made by men was that women are prohibited to be promiscuous as they choose. Now even though I don't agree with some forms of promiscuity, however women have the right to do as they please with their vagina.

The problem here is you have many of women who can't separate sexual feelings from emotional feelings thinking they can handle a cut buddy/FWB situation. And that's where all the drama and problems come in.

 

[Naveah2050]

Unfortunately, everything in here is theory because reality doesn't line up with anything any of us have said. That's all I've been saying. The game has changed. Folks are having casual sex because they enjoy it. People need to figure out their own game plan and act accordingly because nobody is going to stop doing what they like so that other women can get mates.

If you can't get mates because other women are casually sexing that's the least of your problems - if anything if you are truly a prize and carry yourself as such the fact that you hold out in a world of 'yes' sayers will distinguish you to the right man that values that sort of thing and make you a rare commodity.

If he doesn't value it then maybe y'all are not compatible - women just need to do what they are doing and what they feel comfortable doing.

The biggest 'sluts' in the world are all probably married now- outside of high school I didn't even know grown women really thought being 'sluts' would stop women getting married and having kids. Some of y'all need to get out cause the world has changed.

Also many in here have clearly reference the legalization of prostitution (in those words) so I don't know why people are acting brand new. Attaching a financial price to your pussy doesn't mean you value it - if you really valued yourself and your sex it would be priceless.

 

[aribell]

I feel in many ways people are passing like ships. No one is trying to control anyone's sexuality. But do see things for what they are. Sure, this works out for *some* in that they still get what they want in the end. No, it certainly does not work out for most. It is, at this moment, not working out for most. It would be a great thing, imo, if there were an 18 year old lurking who decided not to hop on the merry go round and instead thought more about acting in accordance with her longterm interests and not just what may be fun today or for the next few years. *People who actually care* will be honest with her about that.

The resistance to these ideas would make more sense if there were also a willingness to openly acknowledge and accept all of the consequences and impacts of these societal-level shifts in values. But there isn't, just more and more complaints, as if no one expected there to be any fallout. The next time there's a thread expressing anxiety, confusion, discouragement, etc. about how it is women (and black women in particular) aren't getting married or can't get what they want romantically, don't waste the energy, just reference this thread.

 

[SophieDulce]

Id rather be a prostitute( if it was legal) than be some mans cut buddy.