Why is it wrong for the wife to stay home.

[Zaynab]

What about some of the ladies who go to professional/graduate school for specific careers? Medicine, Law, Business, Finance, Accounting, Pharmacy, etc.

How does the that play into your decision to consider staying at home should your husband ask you. I think the decision is relatively easier for people who have bachelors and maybe even masters..

But when you go through 4+ years of post graduate schooling (often times even more in research, fellowships, internships, etc) to get into your career, not to mention loans, and the contributions/sacrifices of you/your parents- does it make it harder for you?

I think the SAH thing is great for some women, but being that I'm in school for medicine because I love it and not b/c of the $$, it's hard for me to say that I'd drop it as long as my husband could afford to support our family. B/c I went into the field for reasons other than financial, this reason alone would not suffice for me to leave it....

Thoughts?

I have a post graduate professional degree. I chose my career based on the fact that I knew I wanted to be a wife AND a mother and I wanted total autonomy over that. I work PT in my field and its the best. My kids don't even really know I work. And yep, I *fart* around with a cleaning lady that comes by 3x a week

 

[Zaynab]

I agree! I don't plan to be a SAH anything, but if I decided to be, I'll be damned if you expect me to have fresh cooked meals every day, to wake up when you wake up to make you breakfast, to make sure your clothes are ready, to make sure the house is clean every dang day, etc. Oh please!

A Black friend of mine grew up in a home where her mom stayed home. The mom had things to do during the day like philanthropy, etc., so she had a maid service on the regular. Nothing's wrong with that, IMO.

Moreover, this disdain for SAHM in the Black community should be examined and broken down by socioeconomic class. I haven't noticed upper middle class Blacks having such a disdain for it, even if their wives have degrees from top schools. I think the disdain is moreso for the wife of a someone who is working class/lower middle class and it comes from other working class folks. Just saying...

Pretty much. The whole crabs in a barrell bint referred to.

 

[Belle Du Jour]

So true. I don't plan to be a SAHM b/c I'm going into medicine and I feel like I've worked too hard thus far not to have a career, but most importantly I love medicine. However, my feelings may change when I do get married and have children. Ideally, when my kids are young (younger than 3 or 4), I want to practice only 3 days a week and finish seeing patients by 3.30-4 for the latest (that's why derm is looking better and better each day...lol, j/k).

All the ROAD specialties (Radiology, Optho, Anesthesia and Derm) are great for that (which is why they are extremely hard to match into ). However, if you happen to fall in love with a specialty that's time intensive, you can still make it work. For ex, even OB/Gyns are working part-time these days. Even as a part time physician, you can make 6 figures.

 

[Te'TahHead]

Pretty much. The whole crabs in a barrell bint referred to.

Disdain?

Who expressed disdain? I missed it. It's a crabs in the bucket mentality if one chooses not to be a SAHM? Is this also when a woman states that she doesn't understand it?

When we say people are wrong for not agreeing with us, we are essentially doing the same thing that we didn't like that they did to us.

Wow.. this is turning to be a different kind of thread.

 

[SparklingFlame]

I said I would never give up my career for a kid, and Im sure you can find evidence of that in posts on this board. Now here I am counting down to day when Im home. Funny how things change.

A child will do that to you.

I said a lotta things before I had mine but I turned around and did the opposite.

I was NEVER gonna be a SAHM now look at me.

 

[DayStar]

i plan being a SAHM once i bring kids in the world( and i will make sure to marry a man who can afford me that luxury)...at least untill they can speak up for themselves. Could i do it forever probably not but thats ME..i might even change my mind...i think a SAHM is such a fulfilling job...and any woman spitting venom at you for being one is JEALOUS cause her babydaddy or husband has her working like a slave...you are a fortunate woman..

 

[Bint Yusef]

Disdain?

Who expressed disdain? I missed it. It's a crabs in the bucket mentality if one chooses not to be a SAHM? Is this also when a woman states that she doesn't understand it?

When we say people are wrong for not agreeing with us, we are essentially doing the same thing that we didn't like that they did to us.

Wow.. this is turning to be a different kind of thread.

I dont think a woman is a crab in a bucket if she choose not to be SAHM. Being a SAHM is a choice everyone woman and family must make for themselves, if they even have the choice as many dont. I think mostly people are getting at the mentality that causes some folks to look down on those who choose to SAHM. It is understandable if a woman believes that it is not the best choice for her or she plain doesnt want to. What many of us are getting at, and I will be honest and say Ive seen some of that in this thread is a certain mentality that black folks carry about what the role of SAHM should be or she is useless, lazy, her degrees are going to waste etc. She should be cooking 10 meals, folding 20 baskets of laundry, etc. Basically she should be struggling inside the home the same way those who choose to and have to work do. We had a thread on here not to long ago about black folks and having "help".


The point I was trying to make in this post, is that if you want to do all of that fine, if your man expects that of you that is fine too. However, some of us have other agendas and will be doing a different type of work as it relates to the elevation of our family, and imho that isnt lazy, that isnt wasting your degree, etc etc. Its one thing to not understand it and lack exposure to certain type of lifestyles its a whole other ball of wax to get into what can be perceived to be a crab mentality....well I have to do ""50-11" things and if you arent doing all of this why are you home?" And yes crabs do exist, on this issue imho, there are a lot of people who wish they were even in a position to even have the choice, I know plenty of them as I am related to them. IMHO this is most definitely a class issue for the most part and yes we are generalizing in this thread, but that facilitates discussion because we are talking about general patterns. No one leads a struggle free life, however, there is no convincing me that there isnt a pervasive mentality and hyperglorification of taking the "hard" road that is the result of the AA experience in this country that permeates a lot of our thinking on various issues, sometimes good and sometimes bad. I also believe a lot of black women use that struggle as a barometer they measure themselves and others against. I definitely believe its a class[how can it not be when we are talking about the ability for a family to maintain their lifestyle one income? of coruse class has to do with it] issue, and while yes we are generalizing that doesnt mean it isnt based in some reality.

eta:tetah it wasnt my intent to offend you, if i did so, i apologize.

 

[Bunny77]

^^^Again, you said what I was thinking.

The problem is not in the choice to be a WM, WF, SAHM or SAHW... it's in the expectations that if a woman is staying at home and not "doing something," that it's a waste of a degree and time and how dare she not be catering to her husband's every whim at every second because she doesn't work and why doesn't she need help and blah blah blah.


On a different note, another poster said this... maybe on another board, but I think it fits well here.

We seem to recognize how difficult it is for working people to complete certain tasks and have no problem if they ask for help. But in terms of motherhood, probably the hardest job of them all, we expect one woman to do it by herself and then call her "lazy" if she seeks helpers.

What's wrong with this picture?

 

[SparklingFlame]

Ya'll remember back in the day when a SAHM was the norm?

No one looked down on that.

Now that some of us have options its sad that the ones who can SAH are looked down upon.

 

[SparklingFlame]

^^^Again, you said what I was thinking.

The problem is not in the choice to be a WM, WF, SAHM or SAHW... it's in the expectations that if a woman is staying at home and not "doing something," that it's a waste of a degree and time and how dare she not be catering to her husband's every whim at every second because she doesn't work and why doesn't she need help and blah blah blah.


On a different note, another poster said this... maybe on another board, but I think it fits well here.

We seem to recognize how difficult it is for working people to complete certain tasks and have no problem if they ask for help. But in terms of motherhood, probably the hardest job of them all, we expect one woman to do it by herself and then call her "lazy" if she seeks helpers.

What's wrong with this picture?

PREACH!!!!!!!!!

 

[Zaynab]

Disdain?

Who expressed disdain? I missed it. It's a crabs in the bucket mentality if one chooses not to be a SAHM? Is this also when a woman states that she doesn't understand it?

When we say people are wrong for not agreeing with us, we are essentially doing the same thing that we didn't like that they did to us.

Wow.. this is turning to be a different kind of thread.

I'm sorry. I was typing really fast but I meant that "crabs in a barrel meaning....IMO *some* women will blast other women for being SAHM's because they are silently envious/jealous resentful that they don't have that same option OR because they haven't reached or thought high enough to have gone after that same option themselves, i.e. marrying men that would and can give them that choice. It's like, well I can't do it, so I'm going to blast others that choose to do so.

I'm not saying anyone in here is expressing that type of sentiment but I've seen it happen IRL. I've done it all, worked three jobs and worked zero jobs, been poor and been rich and all times I've had 50-11 folks give me the reason why one choice was better than the other. But the women that worked and HAD to, thought that was best. The women that didnt' work and didn't have to, thought that was best. I think you have to do what works for you.

 

[Zaynab]

A child will do that to you.

I said a lotta things before I had mine but I turned around and did the opposite.

I was NEVER gonna be a SAHM now look at me.

Oh you want to go down that road......

I said I would never give my kids food in the grocery store before paying for it. As if?! That's what the mexicans do right ....HA! Then I had a child that screamed to the top of their lungs in Publix for a 'nak" And we all know that when you're in public and your kid screams, you know w/o a doubt people in the next town can hear you and everyone is looking at you like you're crazy.

I said my children would always look nice, neat and presentable. Then I had a child that went through a phase where he would never leave the house in some type of get-up. i.e spiderman, superman, cowboy boots, football outfit. And who really wants to argue with a five year old when you need to just LEAVE the house?

I said I would BF but never in public because I don't want to make folks uncomfortable. But I've had to whip it out (covered of course) in some places like the airport, restaurant...

 

[Zaynab]

I dont think a woman is a crab in a bucket if she choose not to be SAHM. Being a SAHM is a choice everyone woman and family must make for themselves, if they even have the choice as many dont. I think mostly people are getting at the mentality that causes some folks to look down on those who choose to SAHM. It is understandable if a woman believes that it is not the best choice for her or she plain doesnt want to. What many of us are getting at, and I will be honest and say Ive seen some of that in this thread is a certain mentality that black folks carry about what the role of SAHM should be or she is useless, lazy, her degrees are going to waste etc. She should be cooking 10 meals, folding 20 baskets of laundry, etc. Basically she should be struggling inside the home the same way those who choose to and have to work do. We had a thread on here not to long ago about black folks and having "help".


The point I was trying to make in this post, is that if you want to do all of that fine, if your man expects that of you that is fine too. However, some of us have other agendas and will be doing a different type of work as it relates to the elevation of our family, and imho that isnt lazy, that isnt wasting your degree, etc etc. Its one thing to not understand it and lack exposure to certain type of lifestyles its a whole other ball of wax to get into what can be perceived to be a crab mentality....well I have to do ""50-11" things and if you arent doing all of this why are you home?" And yes crabs do exist, on this issue imho, there are a lot of people who wish they were even in a position to even have the choice, I know plenty of them as I am related to them. IMHO this is most definitely a class issue for the most part and yes we are generalizing in this thread, but that facilitates discussion because we are talking about general patterns. No one leads a struggle free life, however, there is no convincing me that there isnt a pervasive mentality and hyperglorification of taking the "hard" road that is the result of the AA experience in this country that permeates a lot of our thinking on various issues, sometimes good and sometimes bad. I also believe a lot of black women use that struggle as a barometer they measure themselves and others against. I definitely believe its a class[how can it not be when we are talking about the ability for a family to maintain their lifestyle one income? of coruse class has to do with it] issue, and while yes we are generalizing that doesnt mean it isnt based in some reality.

eta:tetah it wasnt my intent to offend you, if i did so, i apologize.

thanks that is what I meant to say And I wasn't trying to offend

 

[Crackers Phinn]

I just had to highlight this. In our community we really romanticize struggle in a way that has become unhealthy like you insinuated.

Say it again.

~~~~~~~~

Regarding women with higher degrees becoming SAHM's, to me it's money well spent on my education if i can give my children a head start in theirs.

 

[MJ]

What about some of the ladies who go to professional/graduate school for specific careers? Medicine, Law, Business, Finance, Accounting, Pharmacy, etc.

How does the that play into your decision to consider staying at home should your husband ask you. I think the decision is relatively easier for people who have bachelors and maybe even masters..

But when you go through 4+ years of post graduate schooling (often times even more in research, fellowships, internships, etc) to get into your career, not to mention loans, and the contributions/sacrifices of you/your parents- does it make it harder for you?

I think the SAH thing is great for some women, but being that I'm in school for medicine because I love it and not b/c of the $$, it's hard for me to say that I'd drop it as long as my husband could afford to support our family. B/c I went into the field for reasons other than financial, this reason alone would not suffice for me to leave it....

Thoughts?

Isn't that something the couple would have decided on before marriage?

 

[Bunny77]

Regarding women with higher degrees becoming SAHM's, to me it's money well spent on my education if i can give my children a head start in theirs.

That reminds me of something.

When I was in college, my professors often bragged about the first person from our school to become a Rhodes Scholar. She was selected in the 1970s.

They did an update on her when I was in college (late 90s) and it was noted that she homeschooled her children and wasn't working.

21-year-old me thought, "What a waste!"

31-year-old me is thinking, "Good for you."

Oh, her husband is a guy she met at that same college... he was rather smart too... let's just say he was a finalist for the last Supreme Court opening and many legal scholars thought that Bush was definitely going to appoint him. He's also a professor too.

For some reason, I don't think husband or wife felt that her education and Rhodes studies were a mistake and I don't think ole boy spent much time venting about his wife who "stayed home" and "wasted her education."

That's an extreme example, I know, but then again, I'm meeting more and more "power couples" like this these days... and it's telling me something!

 

[hopeful]

I dont think a woman is a crab in a bucket if she choose not to be SAHM. Being a SAHM is a choice everyone woman and family must make for themselves, if they even have the choice as many dont. I think mostly people are getting at the mentality that causes some folks to look down on those who choose to SAHM. It is understandable if a woman believes that it is not the best choice for her or she plain doesnt want to. What many of us are getting at, and I will be honest and say Ive seen some of that in this thread is a certain mentality that black folks carry about what the role of SAHM should be or she is useless, lazy, her degrees are going to waste etc. She should be cooking 10 meals, folding 20 baskets of laundry, etc. Basically she should be struggling inside the home the same way those who choose to and have to work do. We had a thread on here not to long ago about black folks and having "help".


The point I was trying to make in this post, is that if you want to do all of that fine, if your man expects that of you that is fine too. However, some of us have other agendas and will be doing a different type of work as it relates to the elevation of our family, and imho that isnt lazy, that isnt wasting your degree, etc etc. Its one thing to not understand it and lack exposure to certain type of lifestyles its a whole other ball of wax to get into what can be perceived to be a crab mentality....well I have to do ""50-11" things and if you arent doing all of this why are you home?" And yes crabs do exist, on this issue imho, there are a lot of people who wish they were even in a position to even have the choice, I know plenty of them as I am related to them. IMHO this is most definitely a class issue for the most part and yes we are generalizing in this thread, but that facilitates discussion because we are talking about general patterns. No one leads a struggle free life, however, there is no convincing me that there isnt a pervasive mentality and hyperglorification of taking the "hard" road that is the result of the AA experience in this country that permeates a lot of our thinking on various issues, sometimes good and sometimes bad. I also believe a lot of black women use that struggle as a barometer they measure themselves and others against. I definitely believe its a class[how can it not be when we are talking about the ability for a family to maintain their lifestyle one income? of coruse class has to do with it] issue, and while yes we are generalizing that doesnt mean it isnt based in some reality.

eta:tetah it wasnt my intent to offend you, if i did so, i apologize.

One of the best posts I've seen on this board ever. Thank you for taking the time to write it and post it.

 

[amara11]

Isn't that something the couple would have decided on before marriage?

1) No, not always that's why I asked. Maybe in a perfect world- but not in real life.
2) Even if it were, situations change- where you are as a couple before marriage (and the choices you make) isn't necessarily who you will be and doesn't always coincide with the what you will do.
3) My question is pretty general when I say husband you can take that as future husband/ husband whatever. Either way, the question was how does this affect your decisions, what are some compromises you might make, how do you find a balance, etc. Whether you have the discussion before or after your married wasn't my focus. My focus was the *content* of that discussion (assuming it applies to you).

 

[Bint Yusef]

That reminds me of something.

When I was in college, my professors often bragged about the first person from our school to become a Rhodes Scholar. She was selected in the 1970s.

They did an update on her when I was in college (late 90s) and it was noted that she homeschooled her children and wasn't working.

21-year-old me thought, "What a waste!"

31-year-old me is thinking, "Good for you."

Oh, her husband is a guy she met at that same college... he was rather smart too... let's just say he was a finalist for the last Supreme Court opening and many legal scholars thought that Bush was definitely going to appoint him. He's also a professor too.

For some reason, I don't think husband or wife felt that her education and Rhodes studies were a mistake and I don't think ole boy spent much time venting about his wife who "stayed home" and "wasted her education."

That's an extreme example, I know, but then again, I'm meeting more and more "power couples" like this these days... and it's telling me something!

Sometimes its just a difference in mentality on what education is about. Being a first generation college student, my family urged me to go to school as a means to getting a "good job". Education for the sake of being educated is rare and a luxury with a lot people, especially us. It was through exposure at school that I learned that everyone did not think the way I did in fact I believe I was the minority in that view. IMHO another example of the class factor in this debate.

 

[Te'TahHead]

I dont think a woman is a crab in a bucket if she choose not to be SAHM. Being a SAHM is a choice everyone woman and family must make for themselves, if they even have the choice as many dont. I think mostly people are getting at the mentality that causes some folks to look down on those who choose to SAHM. It is understandable if a woman believes that it is not the best choice for her or she plain doesnt want to. What many of us are getting at, and I will be honest and say Ive seen some of that in this thread is a certain mentality that black folks carry about what the role of SAHM should be or she is useless, lazy, her degrees are going to waste etc. She should be cooking 10 meals, folding 20 baskets of laundry, etc. Basically she should be struggling inside the home the same way those who choose to and have to work do. We had a thread on here not to long ago about black folks and having "help".


The point I was trying to make in this post, is that if you want to do all of that fine, if your man expects that of you that is fine too. However, some of us have other agendas and will be doing a different type of work as it relates to the elevation of our family, and imho that isnt lazy, that isnt wasting your degree, etc etc. Its one thing to not understand it and lack exposure to certain type of lifestyles its a whole other ball of wax to get into what can be perceived to be a crab mentality....well I have to do ""50-11" things and if you arent doing all of this why are you home?" And yes crabs do exist, on this issue imho, there are a lot of people who wish they were even in a position to even have the choice, I know plenty of them as I am related to them. IMHO this is most definitely a class issue for the most part and yes we are generalizing in this thread, but that facilitates discussion because we are talking about general patterns. No one leads a struggle free life, however, there is no convincing me that there isnt a pervasive mentality and hyperglorification of taking the "hard" road that is the result of the AA experience in this country that permeates a lot of our thinking on various issues, sometimes good and sometimes bad. I also believe a lot of black women use that struggle as a barometer they measure themselves and others against. I definitely believe its a class[how can it not be when we are talking about the ability for a family to maintain their lifestyle one income? of coruse class has to do with it] issue, and while yes we are generalizing that doesnt mean it isnt based in some reality.

eta:tetah it wasnt my intent to offend you, if i did so, i apologize.

I understand your perspective, I do. In some ways, I agree with you. But, it seems as though you are saying people are looking down on SAHMs and I don't see any of that in THIS thread. IRL, probably, but people also look down at working moms. It's a catch 22 regardless of your situation. I am sure there are some people who would LOVE to be on the opposite spectrum of both situations, but, in the end you have to do what's best for you and your family. If your family cannot afford it, so what? Does that make your a bad person? No. If you happen to be poor but in parallel you don't agree with being a SAHM, so what? Is it really that bad that one side doesn't agree with another? I can understand if there was blantant disrespect but I think we are underestimating the ladies in this thread by insinuating they have a "crabs in a barrel" mentality. I thought this discussion was going well until we brought race, and percieved class into it. I kinda thought this was ONE issue that wouldn't ONCE again make the BLACK woman look bad. I didn't think it was a race issue, but more of a woman-to-woman issue.

I know *I* don't measure myself but how much I do a day, but the QUALITY, of what I do everyday, whether it is the summer when I am a "SAHM" or when I am working 7 days of the week. If a woman being a workhouse gives her some sort of satisfaction and feeling of completion; give her that. We, as black women, don't ever get a standard to be proud of ourself through. I know I pride myself in being able to maintain an attractive apperance. Another woman may think it's phooey, but if it gives me satisfaction, that's what life is about (Assuming I don't put down another woman)

I went back and re-read every single post and didn't find it where someone was "looking down" at another one. I also don't agree with the choice to work as being "the hard way". I don't believe that working outside of the home is struggling. I believe that workin outside of the home is simply..working outside of the home.

All I am saying is whenever it's a race issue, it becomes a class issue. Everyone doesn't have the same ideals and I would be a fool to say that we should. I, became offended, as one of the only working moms, because the thread diverted to working vs. satying at home, and it appears that your stance "looks down" on my decision to work, whether it be prsonal, financial and a DH that doesn't have the same ideals (which mine happens to be a combo of both).

I guess since I don't have the "option" to do it at this time, I probably shouldn't have mentioned I don't agree with a SAHM hiring ongoing outside help.

 

[Bunny77]

Sometimes its just a difference in mentality on what education is about. Being a first generation college student, my family urged me to go to school as a means to getting a "good job". Education for the sake of being educated is rare and a luxury with a lot people, especially us. It was through exposure at school that I learned that everyone did not think the way I did in fact I believe I was the minority in that view. IMHO another example of the class factor in this debate.

Very true... and I really hesitate sometimes to criticize black folks on this because it's difficult to see things differently if you simply haven't had that exposure to a different way of life.

I'm a second-generation college grad, but my parents were very non-traditional college students. Dad got a college degree 12 years after finishing high school (did military, factory work, etc.) and mom took about six and attended three different schools. They were supportive of me going to college, but like you, it was a means to finding a good job and not much more.

I think my mom is now seeing the bigger picture (and dad too) in terms of achieving higher education as the end in itself, not a means to an end, but I don't fault them for not recognizing it before. Why would they have? I'm just glad they're the types capable of expanding themselves once they see other options.

To me, that's the point of struggle... you struggle with an end in sight. Yes, my parents struggled (and still struggle a little too much for my tastes), but they struggled so I don't have to... it would be an insult to them for me to pick a life of struggle too out of some silly sense that there's something noble about struggling when you don't need to.

I know I'm way off topic here, but yeah. That's my general point. Struggle is fine when there's no other option, but more of us have options now than we realize!

 

[Ramya]

I just want to say that I love yall for reminding me about what the heck I'm supposed to be doing while in school. I'm a Junior and a lot of the black people I meet on campus seem to have that idea about struggling+flashy stuff=success and they had me thinking that I was the crazy one for a while! I am not rethinking my standards b/c there's nothing wrong with them. Though I can understand the value of a working mother who still does everything at home, it's just not something I see for me and I date accordingly. To the diverse group of LHCF'ers

 

[LunadeMiel]

I just want to say that I love yall for reminding me about what the heck I'm supposed to be doing while in school. I'm a Junior and a lot of the black people I meet on campus seem to have that idea about struggling+flashy stuff=success and they had me thinking that I was the crazy one for a while! I am not rethinking my standards b/c there's nothing wrong with them. Though I can understand the value of a working mother who still does everything at home, it's just not something I see for me and I date accordingly. To the diverse group of LHCF'ers

LHCF has made me step up my standards...

 

[Bunny77]

LHCF has made me step up my standards...

Me too! Seriously... I'm not even lying!

 

[Ramya]

LHCF has made me step up my standards...

See the thing is I've always had high standards, I blame my grandfather for that . But now that I'm on my own, I meet a lot of people with different priorities and standards and i start to question my own. I chose a school where most of the 35% black population are first generation or their parents recently finished school and seem to share a lot of the same concerns that were raised in this thread about what will happen to my degree (as if it disappears ) and how I shouldn't be so "picky" about who I date. I've come to realize that I already KNOW what I want and what I expect so why should I date someone who doesn't fit the bill .

 

[Crackers Phinn]

When I was in college, my professors often bragged about the first person from our school to become a Rhodes Scholar. She was selected in the 1970s.

They did an update on her when I was in college (late 90s) and it was noted that she homeschooled her children and wasn't working.

21-year-old me thought, "What a waste!"

31-year-old me is thinking, "Good for you."

21 and 31 -year-old me did think exactly the same way.

What I wasn't able to see at 21 that was crystal clear at 31 and on is "Why would I spend my life putting my education to work for a corporation or public that don't give a 'f' about me when I could invest that knowledge into my child which would be my love and my legacy?"

It became crystal clear to me during the Enron scandal, which I was 6 degrees of separation from, that sometimes investing your life into moving up that ladder can bite you in the ass.

 

[LunadeMiel]

See the thing is I've always had high standards, I blame my grandfather for that . But now that I'm on my own, I meet a lot of people with different priorities and standards and i start to question my own. I chose a school where most of the 35% black population are first generation or their parents recently finished school and seem to share a lot of the same concerns that were raised in this thread about what will happen to my degree (as if it disappears ) and how I shouldn't be so "picky" about who I date. I've come to realize that I already KNOW what I want and what I expect so why should I date someone who doesn't fit the bill .

I used to be that girl who knew exactly what she wanted. A few "bad" friends and a lot of bad advice got me all...

 

[Bint Yusef]

I understand your perspective, I do. In some ways, I agree with you. But, it seems as though you are saying people are looking down on SAHMs and I don't see any of that in THIS thread. IRL, probably, but people also look down at working moms. It's a catch 22 regardless of your situation. I am sure there are some people who would LOVE to be on the opposite spectrum of both situations, but, in the end you have to do what's best for you and your family. If your family cannot afford it, so what? Does that make your a bad person? No. If you happen to be poor but in parallel you don't agree with being a SAHM, so what? Is it really that bad that one side doesn't agree with another? I can understand if there was blantant disrespect but I think we are underestimating the ladies in this thread by insinuating they have a "crabs in a barrel" mentality. I thought this discussion was going well until we brought race, and percieved class into it. I kinda thought this was ONE issue that wouldn't ONCE again make the BLACK woman look bad. I didn't think it was a race issue, but more of a woman-to-woman issue.

I dont know how you can get around the class issue on this, the topic is somewhat about money so imho there was no skirting it. I also dont understand how black women look bad in this?

I know *I* don't measure myself but how much I do a day, but the QUALITY, of what I do everyday, whether it is the summer when I am a "SAHM" or when I am working 7 days of the week.

We could get into a discussion about quality of juggling 30 things at once, and who or what gets short changed, but I think that might take the discussion somewhere else. Im glad you dont measure yourself by that , but a lot do.

If a woman being a workhouse gives her some sort of satisfaction and feeling of completion; give her that. We, as black women, don't ever get a standard to be proud of ourself through. I know I pride myself in being able to maintain an attractive apperance. Another woman may think it's phooey, but if it gives me satisfaction, that's what life is about (Assuming I don't put down another woman)

I dont believe in not examining the issues because it makes someone happy to avoid the discussion. There is absolutely nothing wrong with asking why.

I also don't agree with the choice to work as being "the hard way". I don't believe that working outside of the home is struggling. I believe that workin outside of the home is simply..working outside of the home.

I agree with this and I guess I was not clear. I was stating that those that have a certain mentality see it that way. That is not my view, inside or out, imho is hard work.I do not look down on women who choose to or have to work, nor your DH I apologize if it came off that way. What I do take issue with is statements like these, that were made..."I don't agree with a SAHM hiring ongoing outside help" and the implications that it insinuates laziness(not the fact that you dont agree), and yes I do believe its a class issue and im unapologetic about that. It was stated a few times in this thread and specific examples given on how a family will have different needs and why a SAHM would choose to have help and that doesnt make her lazy. IMHO it is a lack of exposure about all the other things she could possibly be doing with her time, other than cleaning up. I stand by that because Ive been there. Im also unpologetic about pointing out the pervasive martyr mentality in our culture, imho that has a lot to do with this discussion whether on or offline, but I digress.

 

[DanaDane]

I wanted to comment on this--In my experience, and all we can really do is bring our anectdotal evidence to the table in these discussions, socioeconomics trumps race most of the time. The two most critical women of my not working (once recovering from an illness, another time just because, and currently in school full time) have been my SILs--who are working class and white.

They've both worked since they were 14 (along with my dh and his other siblings). I was pretty much forbidden to work in highschool--AP Physics, Chem II, debate team, etc., came first--though I was far from well-off. They married/had kids with men who were similar in background/class. I married their brother--I call him the super striver--he, and only one other sibling out of 6, has completely surpassed them in every way socioeconomically--who saw his mom struggle and basically told me within months of dating his number one priority was giving me a good life.

Their comments are irritating--but they just truly cannot fathom my lifestyle because of the circumstance they were born into and the choices they made later in life (failing to pursue higher ed, bad marriages to broke men, children they couldn't afford, etc.). They also seemed conditioned to living their lives on the edge and full of stress--always waiting for the other shoe to drop-always waiting for proof that "all men are scum--how can you not work?"--

So I know intimately that it's not just black women . . .

Edited to add
Wanted to add--their comments are not just towards me--but any woman they think is living "high on the hog"--their words . . .

 

[Farida]

DH's adoptive mom is a SAHM, the dad works, the 5 little kids are home -schooled. When I first met this woman I thought she was crazy. She is a rocket scientist. I am not exaggerating. Before, she worked in engineering and worked on a lot of bombers and military equipment we use/used to use. Once she got married, she quit and became 100% a SAHM. I thought it was a waste. No, her kids are well-behaved, well-rounded and her educated background enables her to be a great teacher for her kids.
Plus, she told us about how sexist men in engineering can be, she is actually happy she doesn't have to deal with that anymore. When I asked her what she'd do if her DH died, she said she'd liquidate their assets except for 2 homes, one for rent and one to live in, cash his life policy and live off of the money and stay home with the kids.