Why is it wrong for the wife to stay home.

[SparklingFlame]

Ya'll may think this is nutty, but once y children are gone, I am going to school to be a Dr. I dont know a doctor of what yet, but that is my plan.

I am willing to sacrifice myself for my children for a while, then Imma do me.

Hell I may not even do that. I might just get my travel on. Who knows....

 

[Te'TahHead]

I dont know how you can get around the class issue on this, the topic is somewhat about money so imho there was no skirting it. I also dont understand how black women look bad in this?

We could get into a discussion about quality of juggling 30 things at once, and who or what gets short changed, but I think that might take the discussion somewhere else. Im glad you dont measure yourself by that , but a lot do.


I dont believe in not examining the issues because it makes someone happy to avoid the discussion. There is absolutely nothing wrong with asking why.

I agree with this and I guess I was not clear. I was stating that those that have a certain mentality see it that way. That is not my view, inside or out, imho is hard work.I do not look down on women who choose to or have to work, nor your DH I apologize if it came off that way. What I do take issue with is statements like these, that were made..."I don't agree with a SAHM hiring ongoing outside help" and the implications that it insinuates laziness(not the fact that you dont agree), and yes I do believe its a class issue and im unapologetic about that. It was stated a few times in this thread and specific examples given on how a family will have different needs and why a SAHM would choose to have help and that doesnt make her lazy. IMHO it is a lack of exposure about all the other things she could possibly be doing with her time, other than cleaning up. I stand by that because Ive been there. Im also unpologetic about pointing out the pervasive martyr mentality in our culture, imho that has a lot to do with this discussion whether on or offline, but I digress.

But, what I don't get is HOW is this topic about money. The majority of the SAHMs in the world aren't rich (ie RHWA) or close to it. The majority of AMERICANS are middle class with incomes from 40-100K a year. I think it's an overstatement to imply that a woman cannot fathom SAHM'dom because she hasn't been exposed to the life of luxury. It seems as though we are forgetting that everyone who is a SAHM isnt one by choice of additional finances, but there are some women who stay at home because they cannot afford Childcare. In fact, most women I know who SAH are "struggling" to make ends meet just like the next woman. Everyone doesn't have a husband who brings in high class dollars and she shouldn't have to feel inferior, or be perceived as infererior, if she doesn't. It's truly okay if your husband and my husband has different ideals for their wives, and vice versa.

It's not about the amount in your checkbook, it is several other variables involved. It's way too much to correlate being a SAHM with a life of "luxury" while working is considered to be a by product of the "slave mentality". I am all down for a woman working either at home or outside, but FOR ME, I value hardwork and dedication to ANY PROJECT. There is nothing wrong with having your values in different arenas. There is nothing wrong with valueing how hard you work. It doesn't make you more or less than a mother whatever route you choose. if a woman measures her worth by how many she juggles, the quality of her work or whatever, I don't see what's wrong with that? If one has a goal or objective for themself, who are we to look at the race or class and say that they are wrong for it? It's also ironic how people say that working outside of teh home is wrong and "too hard" but on teh same breath say that being a SAHM is the "hardest job on the planet". I mean, which one is it? Is it a life of luxury or is it too a "struggle"? I know women who say it's both.

I wasn't asking you to be apologetic, but to simply not do what you don't want done to you. I just want you to not judge anyone's stance, especially if it wasn't in judgment of yours. I just don't like the classist nature of the turn of this thread and its notion that all working mothers are poor people who struggle and aren't anywhere as motherific as a SAHM.

 

[Te'TahHead]

I wanted to comment on this--In my experience, and all we can really do is bring our anectdotal evidence to the table in these discussions, socioeconomics trumps race most of the time. The two most critical women of my not working (once recovering from an illness, another time just because, and currently in school full time) have been my SILs--who are working class and white.

They've both worked since they were 14 (along with my dh and his other siblings). I was pretty much forbidden to work in highschool--AP Physics, Chem II, debate team, etc., came first--though I was far from well-off. They married/had kids with men who were similar in background/class. I married their brother--I call him the super striver--he, and only one other sibling out of 6, has completely surpassed them in every way socioeconomically--who saw his mom struggle and basically told me within months of dating his number one priority was giving me a good life.

Their comments are irritating--but they just truly cannot fathom my lifestyle because of the circumstance they were born into and the choices they made later in life (failing to pursue higher ed, bad marriages to broke men, children they couldn't afford, etc.). They also seemed conditioned to living their lives on the edge and full of stress--always waiting for the other shoe to drop-always waiting for proof that "all men are scum--how can you not work?"--

So I know intimately that it's not just black women . . .

Edited to add
Wanted to add--their comments are not just towards me--but any woman they think is living "high on the hog"--their words . . .

But, isn't this where everyone gets their opinions? From their wants, needs, perception of their environment AND their experiences? Are experiences as teachers not adequate measures of where an opinion should come from?

I don't see how YOU don't understand why THEY don't understand...

 

[Princess4real]

But, what I don't get is HOW is this topic about money. The majority of the SAHMs in the world aren't rich (ie RHWA) or close to it. The majority of AMERICANS are middle class with incomes from 40-100K a year. I think it's an overstatement to imply that a woman cannot fathom SAHM'dom because she hasn't been exposed to the life of luxury. It seems as though we are forgetting that everyone who is a SAHM isnt one by choice of additional finances, but there are some women who stay at home because they cannot afford Childcare. In fact, most women I know who SAH are "struggling" to make ends meet just like the next woman. Everyone doesn't have a husband who brings in high class dollars and she shouldn't have to feel inferior, or be perceived as infererior, if she doesn't. It's truly okay if your husband and my husband has different ideals for their wives, and vice versa.

It's not about the amount in your checkbook, it is several other variables involved. It's way too much to correlate being a SAHM with a life of "luxury" while working is considered to be a by product of the "slave mentality". I am all down for a woman working either at home or outside, but FOR ME, I value hardwork and dedication to ANY PROJECT. There is nothing wrong with having your values in different arenas. There is nothing wrong with valueing how hard you work. It doesn't make you more or less than a mother whatever route you choose. if a woman measures her worth by how many she juggles, the quality of her work or whatever, I don't see what's wrong with that? If one has a goal or objective for themself, who are we to look at the race or class and say that they are wrong for it? It's also ironic how people say that working outside of teh home is wrong and "too hard" but on teh same breath say that being a SAHM is the "hardest job on the planet". I mean, which one is it? Is it a life of luxury or is it too a "struggle"? I know women who say it's both.

I wasn't asking you to be apologetic, but to simply not do what you don't want done to you. I just want you to not judge anyone's stance, especially if it wasn't in judgment of yours. I just don't like the classist nature of the turn of this thread and its notion that all working mothers are poor people who struggle and aren't anywhere as motherific as a SAHM.

I've done both and I hated being at home!!! There is only so much you can freaking clean. I appreciated my kids more when I went to pick them up after I got off of work. I didn't like being around my kids all day everyday and nobody was bringing their rugrats over to my house. I am very funny about people coming to my house especially with their kids. I love bringing my own money home and buying things for the house and having some place to go everyday. I love being around other working women, but I wasn't your regular officer wife either. I didn't want to talk about the things they wanted to talk about and buy crafts and crap.

 

[MD_Lady]

Everyone has a right to live their lives as they see fit and everyone is entitled to an opinion. So, everyone choose what's best for you, but realize not everyone will see the value or agree with it. At the end of the day it is you and your home.

My personal opinion is I have high respect for SAHMs. I also respect working moms. My mom was one, and she never missed a recital, a play, a PTA meeting and was home when I got sick, all balancing a full time job. On the other hand, IMO I do not respect women (not retirement age) who stay home and do nothing. If you can do it, good for you, I won't say anything to you, but don't expect a thumbs up from me.

Thank you SO much for this!!! The very same people who get bent out of shape when others "disapprove" of their lifestyle have absolutely NO problem disapproving of another person's choices (only they call their disapproval "having an opinion"). At the end of the day, people should neither offer nor solicit views to or from others and K.I.M.

 

[Te'TahHead]

I've done both and I hated being at home!!! There is only so much you can freaking clean. I appreciated my kids more when I went to pick them up after I got off of work. I didn't like being around my kids all day everyday and nobody was bringing their rugrats over to my house. I am very funny about people coming to my house especially with their kids. I love bringing my own money home and buying things for the house and having some place to go everyday. I love being around other working women, but I wasn't your regular officer wife either. I didn't want to talk about the things they wanted to talk about and buy crafts and crap.

Your husband is on the force?

 

[Princess4real]

Your husband is on the force?

As of October 1st he is my ex, he is still in the army.

ETA: I didn't work because we were poor, LOL I worked because I wanted to work! Yeah, this is a very touchy subject, but I agree with your posts.

 

[Te'TahHead]

As of October 1st he is my ex, he is still in the army.

I'm sorry didnt mean to get up in your business. I wa sthinking he was a police officer. I know NO wives of Police Officers. Just hoping I found one.

 

[DanaDane]

But, isn't this where everyone gets their opinions? From their wants, needs, perception of their environment AND their experiences? Are experiences as teachers not adequate measures of where an opinion should come from?

Maybe, but not always--sometimes we have to evolve past . . .well, our pasts--that is, if we want to understand a different point of view--which brings me to the next thing--

I don't see how YOU don't understand why THEY don't understand...

I'm not sure I communicated that in my post (that I didn't get why they felt that way about my life), but I'll address it anyway.

With respect to them personally, I'l tackle their two main issues with SAHMs--

Fears/Concerns from their end:

--I get why they think the bottom may drop out for me. Because it has for them. Time and again. My point was that it's an unfortunate fact that it's a combo of the way they were raised and what they were born into and how they chose/choose to live. Am I saying their fears have zero legitimacy/credibility? Or course not, but it seems borderline pathological to me--the obsession with all that can go wrong. I truly do think it's become habitual and not just an opinion or value judgment like any other. I'm all about being prepared--there's an old post of mine somewhere where and I talk about the contingency plans dh and I have made because a woman without her own, separate money, etc., is vulnerable. But that's not what they're saying (a calm, logical approach to planning the domestic/houehold workload that doesn't leave me in sh*t if things go to hell in my marriage)and that's certainly not how they live.

The idea that SAHM = lazy from their end:

-Well, that's really a matter of perspective--I get it--but I don't have to respect it. I don't have to honor this idea that only paid labor has value or worth. Period. As for it being a classist view. Maybe it is. That needs to be examined. Most SAHMs sacrifice a lot in order to make it work. But the "choice" to SAH still implies some sort of privilege to have a choice at all. I guess where things get sticky for me is this idea that it's then therefore wrong to desire it, promote it, feel proud of it, whatever, just because some will never want or have it (this can be applied to many thing, like education, a job that doesn't require backbreaking labor, etc.).

Back to the SILs before I get off track-->I understand that's "where they come from"--except their two brothers, raised in the same house, same neighborhood, evolved to appreciate a different point of view. How we interpret our experiences seems to matter as well. The SILs' response to their upbringing has been either go along with what they know or its simply reactive. Dh's has been proactive ("how can I lead the life I want")-again, IMHO.


I only responded because I happened to agree that SAHM is not purely a "black" or "white" cultural value. Most of the response I have received (about my not working now and maybe not in the future with kids) have been from people of various racial, religious, and ethnic backgrounds--the responses tend to line up along socioeconomic lines and/or political ones (ex. politically-left leaning women with amazing careers, etc.)

That's all I have to say. I wasn't trying to totally jump into the fray .

 

[DanaDane]

I also wanted to add that it's amazing how this plays out on different boards. On a majority-white femininst board I've been a member of for, like, 7 years--the division is between the perception of "poor SAHMs" and "elite Working Moms". Interesting.

 

[Princess4real]

I'm sorry didnt mean to get up in your business. I wa sthinking he was a police officer. I know NO wives of Police Officers. Just hoping I found one.

It's ok and it's funny because I never wanted to get to know an army officer's wife. They were corny and boring to me. They lived totally for their family and their husband's career was their career. I was like, where is the party at? I wasn't a cookie baker and could careless what their lil Bob said today or what lil Susie wore today. I had a life outside my family and they were like the stepford wives.

ETA: I don't think it's about money, but I do think the SAHM has to loooooove being around children all day everyday in order to do it!!!

 

[lwilliams1922]

I was a single mom till my oldest was 8.
I worked because I HAD to work.

I made a nice salary and my priority was holding it down enough to keep her in a good private school.
At the time I have to admit I didn't think very highly of SAHMs. I think it was just not possible for me at the time
so didn't give it much thought.

After getting married and having 2 little ones things changed for me.
I made much more than my hubby but when I held my 2nd baby in my arms I could not bear to leave her with anyone.

My priority is now my kids. It's a very different life to go from money to NO money. But I tell you I work much more now. My kids are early risers. I'm on the go for 14 hrs a day. i don't buy things like i used to but i never could have imagined the joy in having my 1 yr old walk up to me all day saying 'read this' or the stories and hugs i get from my 3 yr old. Not to mention I am home schooling the oldest now in 8th grade.

There are days I feel like I don't want to wash ANOTHER dish but I've also learned to cook in the last year, and make the majority of our meals from scratch now. I think it's a calling. I'm not making $45/hr anymore but i feel my work is more important so i give it my all.

I guess ultimately it's a personal decision for each persons situation.

 

[Te'TahHead]

I also wanted to add that it's amazing how this plays out on different boards. On a majority-white femininst board I've been a member of for, like, 7 years--the division is between the perception of "poor SAHMs" and "elite Working Moms". Interesting.

OMG.. On my parenting board people aren't even allowed to make threads with the two in there together. It was horrible.

 

[Bunny77]

-Well, that's really a matter of perspective--I get it--but I don't have to respect it. I don't have to honor this idea that only paid labor has value or worth. Period. As for it being a classist view. Maybe it is. That needs to be examined. Most SAHMs sacrifice a lot in order to make it work. But the "choice" to SAH still implies some sort of privilege to have a choice at all. I guess where things get sticky for me is this idea that it's then therefore wrong to desire it, promote it, feel proud of it, whatever, just because some will never want or have it (this can be applied to many thing, like education, a job that doesn't require backbreaking labor, etc.).

Yeah, I think the thing on this whole topic on this board that created some conflict was the idea of what constitutes "work."

One poster said that if a woman is a stay-at-home wife (but not mother, at least that's what I understood) that she better be attending to her husband's every beck and call. Other folks disputed that... and I'm on the side of the disputers... it just seemed like the idea was that a woman who didn't work (and had no kids) HAD to justify her existence as a SAHW in some way and do SOMETHING... but then as JCoily came in and showed in her post, "something" can be very different from class to class.

A man can have his wife stay home and not expect her to do ANYTHING in terms of cooking, cleaning, etc., but that doesn't necessarily mean she's doing NOTHING. It could be that her contribution is something that works well for her class and station in society... and is helping her husband move up in the world. I see nothing wrong with that, and I don't think that a stay-at-home anything should have to fulfill a certain amount of duties to justify her staying at home.

(Just don't raise no bad a-- kids or neglect 'em... then your role SHOULD be questioned!)

I also wanted to add that it's amazing how this plays out on different boards. On a majority-white femininst board I've been a member of for, like, 7 years--the division is between the perception of "poor SAHMs" and "elite Working Moms". Interesting.

I've seen this too... and really, before learning more about upper classes, I always saw SAHMs as mostly lower-class, but super-religious conservative rural white women who weren't educated enough to "work," unless it was at Wal-Mart, and then, what would be the point?

It was only after college, when I heard of the Rhodes Scholar who married the future almost-Supreme Court justice that I realized that there is a class of highly educated SAHMs who married their intellectual equals (heck, many might be smarter than their husbands), and they married into a situation in which their gifts were used for the improvement of home, family and the continuation/beginning of a strong lineage of wealth and power. I kinda like that. (Can my sorta-kinda struggling journalist behind get in on that? )

It's ok and it's funny because I never wanted to get to know an army officer's wife. They were corny and boring to me. They lived totally for their family and their husband's career was their career. I was like, where is the party at? I wasn't a cookie baker and could careless what their lil Bob said today or what lil Susie wore today. I had a life outside my family and they were like the stepford wives.

Okay now see, those were probably the SAHMs I was thinking of when I first was exposed to the idea -- those women who just seemed to be "trapped" in living out lives for others and had no identity of their own. I wouldn't want to be bothered with those folks either -- they sound rather boring! But hey, if they like, it, I love it!

I'll associate with the braniac SAHMs who are probably writing books and consulting and theorizing and all that stuff while holding it down at home!

 

[amara11]

But, what I don't get is HOW is this topic about money. The majority of the SAHMs in the world aren't rich (ie RHWA) or close to it. The majority of AMERICANS are middle class with incomes from 40-100K a year. I think it's an overstatement to imply that a woman cannot fathom SAHM'dom because she hasn't been exposed to the life of luxury. It seems as though we are forgetting that everyone who is a SAHM isnt one by choice of additional finances, but there are some women who stay at home because they cannot afford Childcare. In fact, most women I know who SAH are "struggling" to make ends meet just like the next woman. Everyone doesn't have a husband who brings in high class dollars and she shouldn't have to feel inferior, or be perceived as infererior, if she doesn't....

It's not about the amount in your checkbook, it is several other variables involved. It's way too much to correlate being a SAHM with a life of "luxury" while working is considered to be a by product of the "slave mentality".......It's also ironic how people say that working outside of teh home is wrong and "too hard" but on teh same breath say that being a SAHM is the "hardest job on the planet". I mean, which one is it? Is it a life of luxury or is it too a "struggle"? I know women who say it's both.

......I just don't like the classist nature of the turn of this thread and its notion that all working mothers are poor people who struggle and aren't anywhere as motherific as a SAHM.

This is why I posted my original question. I completely agree with you

I also wanted to add that it's amazing how this plays out on different boards. On a majority-white femininst board I've been a member of for, like, 7 years--the division is between the perception of "poor SAHMs" and "elite Working Moms". Interesting.

Thanks so much for mentioning this! This is why I hopped off the conversation. The decision to SAH wasn't one I equated to a monetary decision. From my exposures and background the women who SAH were the ones who didn't have prominent professional careers of their own. They didn't have to leave seats as CEOs of corporations, Presidents of Universities, Chief of Staff at large private hospitals, Judges. They normally had college degrees, but their schooling wasn't focused enough to make choosing between home and work an issue. I'm not saying the degree makes one a better mom or woman than the other- but the this type of specialized degree does impact the decision of most women to SAH- especially when she went into the field for reasons OTHER than MONEY. This is also true for those who didn't originally plan to be a SAHM (cuz there are the outlier examples of women who get MDs/JDs etc knowing full well they'll never spend a day actually working- but these are an exception). Which is precisely why I asked the question that I did.

It's also why when the argument came up about motives for education- again I couldn't relate. Yes many go to school for the luxury of just being educated, but most ppl don't enter fields (especially like the ones I mentioned above) just to be educated. And just because they don't enter into college and beyond for the sake of *saying that she did* doesn't mean she can't understand that luxury! I know many wealthy/upperclass women- who don't get their degrees just for educations sake- they got them because they wanted to enter that field. I don't know of any lawyers, doctors, judges, CEOs, etc that did this. They may temporarily or even permanently leave work to SAH, but that decison came later, after a need arose. They didn't go through all that education and work just to say that they are *schooled*. That's what college degrees are for- but highly specialized doctorates? No.

This also ties into why I don't fully buy the $$$ argument. B/c on one hand we're claiming it's only certain ppl who can understand education for luxury vs. education for work. But in my opinion- ppl who think that education for work= only for those who can't afford not to work are the ones who can't appreciate that many women of the upper middle to upper class (as you mentioned-elite) aren't working because of the $$$. They're working because they love the field, they have a vested interest in their craft and they want to make a contribution to it. This is why I too was perplexed by the claim that the misunderstanding of SAHMs by the WMs was because of money or class? I know many examples to the contrary- which tells me that this can't be it.

I still think it all boils down to an argument many ppl are thinking but won't say- and that is one about motherhood.

Again, the OP asked the original question and my answer was that it's because of the presumptions on both sides that one or the other isn't as good of a mom. I still think with all the running around in circles and pretending its this issue over that, that the "I make a better mom than you" argument is the reason why this whole thing is so heated.

Which is precisely why this is still a debate in the predom. white forum that you mentioned- where the opposite class money/dynamic reigns true. Clearly that's not the explanation.

If everyone really appreciated that BOTH SAHMs and WMs could be excellent mothers and the thing that makes a great mom great isn't where or how she works- then I doubt this debate could continue (on any forum). This is why I feel the key lies in those hurtful insinuations and not in $$ and class.

 

[barbiesocialite]

I hate working.

If I dont feel like working or dont want to, I dont, simple as that.

I've never actually worked because I had to.

I hope I never have to do that either

I def would never have children with anyone where I HAD to work either Id only do it p/t with use of my degrees to have a nest egg hidden away for myslef.

 

[barbiesocialite]

i also would like to add that I know several women that are married to very well off spouses (homo and heterosexual) and these particular women work because they love their jobs and it gives them personal satisfaction and a sense of fulfillment.

Whether or not one feels like these women are enacting good mothering skills by willingly taking on such high-powered positions is irrelevant, its what makes these women happy as individuals, wives and mothers so more power to them.

 

[Bint Yusef]

But, what I don't get is HOW is this topic about money. The majority of the SAHMs in the world aren't rich (ie RHWA) or close to it. The majority of AMERICANS are middle class with incomes from 40-100K a year. I think it's an overstatement to imply that a woman cannot fathom SAHM'dom because she hasn't been exposed to the life of luxury. It seems as though we are forgetting that everyone who is a SAHM isnt one by choice of additional finances, but there are some women who stay at home because they cannot afford Childcare. In fact, most women I know who SAH are "struggling" to make ends meet just like the next woman. Everyone doesn't have a husband who brings in high class dollars and she shouldn't have to feel inferior, or be perceived as infererior, if she doesn't. It's truly okay if your husband and my husband has different ideals for their wives, and vice versa.

It's not about the amount in your checkbook, it is several other variables involved. It's way too much to correlate being a SAHM with a life of "luxury" while working is considered to be a by product of the "slave mentality". I am all down for a woman working either at home or outside, but FOR ME, I value hardwork and dedication to ANY PROJECT. There is nothing wrong with having your values in different arenas. There is nothing wrong with valueing how hard you work. It doesn't make you more or less than a mother whatever route you choose. if a woman measures her worth by how many she juggles, the quality of her work or whatever, I don't see what's wrong with that? If one has a goal or objective for themself, who are we to look at the race or class and say that they are wrong for it? It's also ironic how people say that working outside of teh home is wrong and "too hard" but on teh same breath say that being a SAHM is the "hardest job on the planet". I mean, which one is it? Is it a life of luxury or is it too a "struggle"? I know women who say it's both.

I wasn't asking you to be apologetic, but to simply not do what you don't want done to you. I just want you to not judge anyone's stance, especially if it wasn't in judgment of yours. I just don't like the classist nature of the turn of this thread and its notion that all working mothers are poor people who struggle and aren't anywhere as motherific as a SAHM.

Okay first off I never said that women who didnt want to be or cant be SAHMs dont understand a life of luxury. Luxury is not even a term that I would use for it because imho its not the concept of luxury Im getting at. I was speaking specifically to those who look down(and if this doesnt apply to you, dont be offended) on SAHMs and specifically those who implied that SAHMs who have help arent doing enough to justify their existence at home to being unexposed to possible lifestyles that more than justify their existence at home with help. It was a handful of folks in this post who posted their laundry list of qualifiers for what SAHMs should be doing or otherwise she is worthless, and questioning the fact that one went to college and decides to stay at home. If you agree that a woman has the right to juggle how many ever tasks she chooses and sets a goal for herself why the implication of SAHMs with help? Maybe she needs the help because she is busy with her own laundry list of tasks that doesnt include mopping and folding clothes. Secondly, I dont look down on working mothers I will be one as soon as this child makes it to kinder, as I dont believe my life should completely revolve around a child and I particularly love my profession and cant see myself abandoning because I started a family. I love my career, I dont have to work I choose too even at the insistence of my DH to be a SAHW. I definitely understand why someone would choose to not be a SAHM and I dont think that makes a person less of a mother. Saying someone is unexposed to things is what it is, it doesnt mean someone is looking down on you, thinks you are a bad person for not being a SAHM, or any of the other accusations in your post. Im not judging you or your DH for what you chose to do.

About the money part, the SAHMs I know are all SAHMs by choice and none of them are struggling and all of them are degreed and made the choice to be with their children for whatever amount of time because they can afford to and many times its expected of them by their families. They have suspended prominent careers and positions and opted to be SAHMs some permanently some temporary. I dont know any black women giving up their careers whose husband cannot afford it, thus making them struggle more. Thats why I say its a money issue in some regards. Im not saying the people you mentioned, i.e. are out of work because of high day care cost, dont exist. Im just saying those arent the type of folks I know so I didnt frame my thought process around them. If my stance is short sighted Im more than willing to admit that.

 

[oldcrayons]

Why do you care so much about what people think?

 

[MizzBrown]

Why do you care so much about what people think?

Its called human nature. You'd be a liar if you said you didn't.

 

[amara11]

i also would like to add that I know several women that are married to very well off spouses (homo and heterosexual) and these particular women work because they love their jobs and it gives them personal satisfaction and a sense of fulfillment.

Whether or not one feels like these women are enacting good mothering skills by willingly taking on such high-powered positions is irrelevant, its what makes these women happy as individuals, wives and mothers so more power to them .

My sentiments PRECISELY.

 

[oldcrayons]

Its called human nature. You'd be a liar if you said you didn't.

It's not inhumane, I just lack the ability to give a f**k 99% of the time. But that's just because I'm insane.

 

[barbiesocialite]

simple math:

SAHM ≠ LAZY, SELF-ENTITLED, SUBMISSIVE, ANTI-FEMINIST WOMAN

WORKING MOTHER ≠ NEGLECTFUL MOTHERING AND MATRIARCH

to each her own, whatever works for someone being a devoted mother in their eyes and having happy children and family life is the right method. Its only when one factor ruins the other is when u have the problem, and as you can see extremities on either side can be detrimental.

BALANCE.

 

[DanaDane]

Which is precisely why this is still a debate in the predom. white forum that you mentioned- where the opposite class money/dynamic reigns true. Clearly that's not the explanation.

Definitely--I mentioned it because I didn't do a good job in my orginial post in this thread explaining that I was talking about only one side of the coin--that a heated debate about the overall issue rages on the other. I think I chose the example I did because it was the closest personal example I had of criticism and I wanted to specifically address the racial angle as far as what people assume certain races value.

--If one were to spy on me on the other board, you'd see a totally warped post from me because the dynamics there (what they tend to value and judge) are so different. For example--because the assumption has already been made that of course women should work--you have to have a damn good reason NOT to--so it's SAHMs who are on the defensive (depending on a man for money, buying into this "false" ideal that actually traps women, Hirshman's manifesto , you're letting down other women and saying a giant **** you to women who've come before you, wasting your education, homeschooling is a no-go and bad for women, you must be poor, ignorant, and unambitious to stay home, what about your daughters? do you want them to SAHM--why bother educating them, and therefore all women, at all?, etc) and a LOT of the nastier attacks are rooted in ideas and assumptions of class and privilege--but from a totally different perspective. So yet another reason I don't feel comfortable with the assumption that "certain races really value SAHMs." It's fascinating.

 

[Zaynab]

I've done both and I hated being at home!!! There is only so much you can freaking clean. I appreciated my kids more when I went to pick them up after I got off of work. I didn't like being around my kids all day everyday and nobody was bringing their rugrats over to my house. I am very funny about people coming to my house especially with their kids. I love bringing my own money home and buying things for the house and having some place to go everyday. I love being around other working women, but I wasn't your regular officer wife either. I didn't want to talk about the things they wanted to talk about and buy crafts and crap.

'

Exactly why I have a babysitter come in my house. Just cause I'm at home doesnt' mean I want to do all that other stufferplexed I work a schedule that allows me to be at home during the day but whatever about being suzy homemaker, it's not me Luckily I get to enjoy both worlds but even if I didn't work AT ALL, I still would not have my kids at home all day with me alone. That is ALOT of work

 

[Zaynab]

simple math:

SAHM ≠ LAZY, SELF-ENTITLED, SUBMISSIVE, ANTI-FEMINIST WOMAN

WORKING MOTHER ≠ NEGLECTFUL MOTHERING AND MATRIARCH

to each her own, whatever works for someone being a devoted mother in their eyes and having happy children and family life is the right method. Its only when one factor ruins the other is when u have the problem, and as you can see extremities on either side can be detrimental.

BALANCE.

My thoughts exactly

 

[Farida]

I don't think I like the idea of daycare. I know some parents have no choice or no problem with it. When I was growing up in Kenya, practically everyone's mom's worked - most families couldn't afford it any other way. There it was cheaper to pay to have a nanny and maid, then to stay home yourself. Life was different though because work was very flexible for family. Many jobs would allow parents to go home during lunch, no work on weekends - esp Sunday the whole city virtually shuts down. 30 days paid vacation, lots of national holidays. So, even as a working parent you could be a very involved parent.

when I worked my first full time job in the states, I was amazed at how stressed I was. many errands I needed to do could only be done during work hours - the places closed at 5 opened at 8. I had to spend my weekends catching up on errands. Not to mention how tired I'd be, it seemed like I got home in time to cook, clean and go to bed. I hated it. I couldn't imagine throwing kids into the mix.

My hope is that I will either be able to work from home, in my career or start a business, or at least be out of the house a few hours of the day. When I watched DHs little siblings for entire weekends I felt to so cooped up in the house and by the time the parents came home I had my bags at the door, ready to go. They say it is different with your own kids so I guess I will see.

 

[Te'TahHead]

Okay first off I never said that women who didnt want to be or cant be SAHMs dont understand a life of luxury. Luxury is not even a term that I would use for it because imho its not the concept of luxury Im getting at. I was speaking specifically to those who look down(and if this doesnt apply to you, dont be offended) on SAHMs and specifically those who implied that SAHMs who have help arent doing enough to justify their existence at home to being unexposed to possible lifestyles that more than justify their existence at home with help. It was a handful of folks in this post who posted their laundry list of qualifiers for what SAHMs should be doing or otherwise she is worthless, and questioning the fact that one went to college and decides to stay at home. If you agree that a woman has the right to juggle how many ever tasks she chooses and sets a goal for herself why the implication of SAHMs with help? Maybe she needs the help because she is busy with her own laundry list of tasks that doesnt include mopping and folding clothes. Secondly, I dont look down on working mothers I will be one as soon as this child makes it to kinder, as I dont believe my life should completely revolve around a child and I particularly love my profession and cant see myself abandoning because I started a family. I love my career, I dont have to work I choose too even at the insistence of my DH to be a SAHW. I definitely understand why someone would choose to not be a SAHM and I dont think that makes a person less of a mother. Saying someone is unexposed to things is what it is, it doesnt mean someone is looking down on you, thinks you are a bad person for not being a SAHM, or any of the other accusations in your post. Im not judging you or your DH for what you chose to do.

About the money part, the SAHMs I know are all SAHMs by choice and none of them are struggling and all of them are degreed and made the choice to be with their children for whatever amount of time because they can afford to and many times its expected of them by their families. They have suspended prominent careers and positions and opted to be SAHMs some permanently some temporary. I dont know any black women giving up their careers whose husband cannot afford it, thus making them struggle more. Thats why I say its a money issue in some regards. Im not saying the people you mentioned, i.e. are out of work because of high day care cost, dont exist. Im just saying those arent the type of folks I know so I didnt frame my thought process around them. If my stance is short sighted Im more than willing to admit that.

Where I am coming from is that this issue has been made a race AND class issue. This always happens on this board. On all of my parenting boards, this issue in itself cause the women to throw hell parties. At the time of my heavy posting on them, I was a SAHM and was reluctant to give any opinions on the subject. But, the one thing I have never came across is that it is a racial and socioeconomic debate. The women of the board, seems ironic looking at it, always considered the WM to be "elitest" while the SAHM were looked at by the WM as "struggling". I think it is extremely important that I dually note that ALL of my parenting boards were predominately white. It's funny how the issue is a differnt one once we speak to black women about it.

It seems on this board everything comes about because of how much you have in the bank. It seems as though it is the popular consensus that having "money" is what sets you different from other black people; therefore your ideals as a black woman with money is superior to those ideals of the BM without it. That's just my opinion and I am seeing it a lot in posts that speak heavily of marriage.

I have seen both WM and SAHM who struggle and those who don't. "Struggling" (evidently this word is subjective too) is not mutually exclusive of ANY woman.

That's all I'm tryna say.

 

[DanaDane]

It seems on this board everything comes about because of how much you have in the bank. It seems as though it is the popular consensus that having "money" is what sets you different from other black people; therefore your ideals as a black woman with money is superior to those ideals of the BM without it. That's just my opinion and I am seeing it a lot in posts that speak heavily of marriage.

Economic status is a popular way to explore the root causes of certain social phenomena. I've done it here. But putting the way you have above--that it comes across as a judgment about what's better or superior--that the worth of a person's personal goals is based on the wealth of the person--I can see how it would be offensive.

I admit that in my own personal example, to defend myself against judgment, I was judgmental. It's not productive.

 

[Ramya]

I don't think I like the idea of daycare.
when I worked my first full time job in the states, I was amazed at how stressed I was. many errands I needed to do could only be done during work hours - the places closed at 5 opened at 8. I had to spend my weekends catching up on errands. Not to mention how tired I'd be, it seemed like I got home in time to cook, clean and go to bed. I hated it. I couldn't imagine throwing kids into the mix.
.

These are also factors for me. I HATE the idea of daycare and I REFUSE to use daycare until my kids are at least "speaking" age. I hate working 8-5 though I do it now, I have no plans to do it later. It's inconvenient on so many levels. Hell I might even be a SAHW if my husband needs me to be or I feel like I should be. I do plan to have "staff" in both scenarios. I'm bout to hire a personal assistant now and I'm in college . Call it lazy, call it what you want but I'm with oldcrayons, at this point I just don't give a flying ****