Spin off #: Is our strength our weakness when it comes to relationships??

[Honey]

I didn’t respond to the quiz because I didn’t feel there were any choices that were representative of my viewpoint/situation. I also don’t think that our “strength” is our weakness. The problem is that many people don’t have an accurate understanding of what it really means to be strong – and this is not just limited to black women. Unfortunately, we seem to be the only ones that are stereotyped as being loud and obnoxious, when in reality men and women of every ethnicity exhibit these same traits.

For example, I was on another site and they were saying the skills that “black women” need to be successful at a job are not the same skills that are needed to be successful in a relationship (I don’t agree with this). But I have never heard this statement be applied to white women. Additionally, in every organization that I’ve ever worked, there have been considerably more white women in positions of authority than black women. I know numerous white female executives with major attitudes and they have husbands. So why is it that they are able to have successful relationships and we aren’t? Could it possibly be due to other dysfunctional behaviors that are prevalent in our communities?

To me the issue really isn’t about what’s wrong with black women – the problem is that black people as a collective keep falling for the okedoke. WE believe the stereotypes that are perpetuated about us and then WE act accordingly. WE buy into the whole “keeping it real” ideology where certain types of blacks (ghetto) are used to represent us as a whole. Sorry, but the neck rolling, gum pop chick with the too tight clothes and multi-colored hair does not represent me or the vast majority of black women that I know.

And as far as this whole black women being the least marriageable we have to look beyond the nonsense and get to the crux of the matter. It has nothing to do with us not being feminine, having short hair or being to “strong/independent.” Many of us are either wasting our time on someone who doesn’t value marriage, someone who isn’t worth being married to or we are passing over good men because they don’t have (you fill in the blank). And honestly, I think that if some of us would raise the standards that we have for ourselves, we would in turn see a vast improvement in the caliber of men who approach us.

~Honey

 

[JFemme]

I didn’t respond to the quiz because I didn’t feel there were any choices that were representative of my viewpoint/situation. I also don’t think that our “strength” is our weakness. The problem is that many people don’t have an accurate understanding of what it really means to be strong – and this is not just limited to black women. Unfortunately, we seem to be the only ones that are stereotyped as being loud and obnoxious, when in reality men and women of every ethnicity exhibit these same traits.

For example, I was on another site and they were saying the skills that “black women” need to be successful at a job are not the same skills that are needed to be successful in a relationship (I don’t agree with this). But I have never heard this statement be applied to white women. Additionally, in every organization that I’ve ever worked, there have been considerably more white women in positions of authority than black women. I know numerous white female executives with major attitudes and they have husbands. So why is it that they are able to have successful relationships and we aren’t? Could it possibly be due to other dysfunctional behaviors that are prevalent in our communities?

To me the issue really isn’t about what’s wrong with black women – the problem is that black people as a collective keep falling for the okedoke. WE believe the stereotypes that are perpetuated about us and then WE act accordingly. WE buy into the whole “keeping it real” ideology where certain types of blacks (ghetto) are used to represent us as a whole. Sorry, but the neck rolling, gum pop chick with the too tight clothes and multi-colored hair does not represent me or the vast majority of black women that I know.

And as far as this whole black women being the least marriageable we have to look beyond the nonsense and get to the crux of the matter. It has nothing to do with us not being feminine, having short hair or being to “strong/independent.” Many of us are either wasting our time on someone who doesn’t value marriage, someone who isn’t worth being married to or we are passing over good men because they don’t have (you fill in the blank). And honestly, I think that if some of us would raise the standards that we have for ourselves, we would in turn see a vast improvement in the caliber of men who approach us.

~Honey

Preach !!! Raise your standards...ladies !

 

[ShaniKeys]

I don't believe that black women are less "feminine" than women from other ethnicities. Whatever "being feminine" is all about...at the end of the day, "being feminine" is a construction of men, white men to be precise: they make make-up, fake eyelashes, lotions, Veet,...and so on, and make us believe that that's what being feminine is all about. What is not feminine about Angelina Jolie not going after men but instead reaching personal goals? Was Halle Berry not feminine enough for Eric Benet? Aishrwaya Rai, a Bollywood actress who has been hailed as the most beautiful woman in the world by many (including actress Julia Roberts) was in an abusive relationship too! Was she not feminine enough? Black women are not masculine or feminine, Black women to my opinion are beautiful and strong and if that goes against the perception of what a woman is supposed to be like, too bad.

 

[glamazon386]

All of the above...

 

[MissJ]

Nope, can't say that I have.

 

[JazzyDez]

I dont care to get into the interracial dating topic right now but your post is broad so I will just talk about the independent black women part of the topic.

I am very independent and have been for a while. I do sometimes think this works against me. When men in my dating age range sees a young woman like myself with no kids, a degree, a good job, a car and her own place I think they are intimidated by that. I mean in ways they like it, they tell me they do. But, I still think it can sometimes make them insecure and feel like they have less to offer me since I supposedly have it all. I think that I (and I likely am) more of a challenge to them and most of the time the guys that I meet aren't looking for a challenge, just something easy where they are in control. Plus I don't really care to talk to a guy that has far less than I do. Probably if I didnt have much, I wouldn't care as much, so it can work against me in terms of a relationship. So in a nutshell, I find myself dating older men without those insecurities and who already have their stuff together.

I think the independent women thing affects black women more since in general most blacks have to work hard for what they have. They learn to be independent and go after the things they want themselves since they dont get as many dollars and perks handed down from older generations.

 

[envybeauty]

Interesting.....

When have Black women not been independent minded in THIS country? By independent, I mean having the mentality and wherewithall to provide for self and family. I don't recall people talking about a time when Black women stayed at home, took care of the kids, and maintained the lawn and garden while married to Johnnie who worked all day. It was not that way for "us" (correct me if I am wrong). Most (if not darn near all) Black women worked to provide something for the kids while married or not. It may not have been salaried but women sold baked goods, did hair in their basements, sold avon, did book keeping, sewing, babysitting, you name it. Some did two or three of these things at a time. Some did these things while holding down a job, full or part time.

I don't understand the mentality that "now" Black women come across as independent and therefore unable to maintain a relationship. As I don't believe our independence is newfold, I don't find the correlation.

 

[Afrolinda]

I've always found it interesting how in the US,dark skinned black men are sought after by black women more heavily than the light skinned ones. You know how people talk about "sexy chocolate men" etc.
I can think of many majority black countries where the lighter skinned black fellas are seen as much more of a hot commodity. Some people may like dark skinned males,but as a general rule, most people I know only like red fellas. One of my friends is going out with a chocolate complexioned fella and she was really unattracted to him for a long time because he is dark. He's good looking though, but it's hard for lots of girls to see past dark skin

In my country girls prefer the dark skinned males. I never saw a light skinned girl from my country with a light skinned man.

 

[Afrolinda]

I don't believe that black women are less "feminine" than women from other ethnicities. Whatever "being feminine" is all about...at the end of the day, "being feminine" is a construction of men, white men to be precise: they make make-up, fake eyelashes, lotions, Veet,...and so on, and make us believe that that's what being feminine is all about. What is not feminine about Angelina Jolie not going after men but instead reaching personal goals? Was Halle Berry not feminine enough for Eric Benet? Aishrwaya Rai, a Bollywood actress who has been hailed as the most beautiful woman in the world by many (including actress Julia Roberts) was in an abusive relationship too! Was she not feminine enough? Black women are not masculine or feminine, Black women to my opinion are beautiful and strong and if that goes against the perception of what a woman is supposed to be like, too bad.

Well said and I just think that we spend too much time looking for excuses for our dearly "brothers". If they don't want the black females it's their fault not ours, we can't keep on searching what doesn't exist.

 

[ambergirl]

Interesting.....

When have Black women not been independent minded in THIS country? By independent, I mean having the mentality and wherewithall to provide for self and family. I don't recall people talking about a time when Black women stayed at home, took care of the kids, and maintained the lawn and garden while married to Johnnie who worked all day. It was not that way for "us" (correct me if I am wrong). Most (if not darn near all) Black women worked to provide something for the kids while married or not. It may not have been salaried but women sold baked goods, did hair in their basements, sold avon, did book keeping, sewing, babysitting, you name it. Some did two or three of these things at a time. Some did these things while holding down a job, full or part time.

I don't understand the mentality that "now" Black women come across as independent and therefore unable to maintain a relationship. As I don't believe our independence is newfold, I don't find the correlation.

I completely agree! We've never had the luxury of not being independent and self-reliant. In fact, then and now many of us carry the burdens of our families and communities, but I do think this may be at the root of the "black women are too independent, too strong, too "masculine" ish. It's like we're punished because we've developed the skills and will to help our families and communities survive and those skills are considered "masuline". Does that make sense?

 

[envybeauty]

I completely agree! We've never had the luxury of not being independent and self-reliant. In fact, then and now many of us carry the burdens of our families and communities, but I do think this may be at the root of the "black women are too independent, too strong, too "masculine" ish. It's like we're punished because we've developed the skills and will to help our families and communities survive and those skills are considered "masuline". Does that make sense?

So you are saying that over time, people have built this perception that Black women are independent, if not altogether too independent for today's purposes?

 

[ambergirl]

So you are saying that over time, people have built this perception that Black women are independent, if not altogether too independent for today's purposes?

I'm not doing a very good job of explaining myself, but what I feel is that probably more than any other community of women we have had to take on multiple leadership roles in our families and communities because, for most of our history in this country, black men were prohibited from taking on those roles (Now they just seem to have left the building.) We are the reason there's any black family or community left in this country IMO. But taking on those roles has meant that we have had to develop independence, strength, self-reliance, tenacity, leadership skills, assertiveness, a voice for ourselves...and I think for a lot of people these are viewed as "masuline" traits, or at least less feminine. Frankly, I think a lot of black women would be happy to give up some of these responsibilities (or at least share them equally with our men) but that is just not the reality for us. So I feel like we're punished for surviving and thriving. For doing what needs to be done for our children, families, and communities.

I hope I'm making sense!

 

[Crystalicequeen123]

Well, I think if anyone reads some of John Gray's books ("Men are From Mars, Women are From Venus", or "Mars and Venus On a Date") you will find that in general, men like to feel appreciated. They like to feel needed. This is across the board, and is basically the same in every culture.

I think that some times our strength as black women can give SOME black men the impression that we don't "need" black men. In turn, this can sometimes turn some (notice I said "some") black men off, or make them gravitate towards women of other races who aren't afraid to show their "need" for men. That's not to say that you have to be clingy or "needy"/desperate. No...I just think that some women of other races have learned to make their men feel more "masculine" by not being afraid to show them that they need them, and this in turn makes the men love and adore them. However, the sad case is that many black women have had to raise children by themselves, have had to live without a husband to help care for them, and have in turn become very self-sufficient. This too goes for women (black or white) who have reached high on the corporate ladder. They may take their agressive natures that work for the workplace into their personal relationships and find that it turns some men off. Afterall, not too many men would feel too happy in a relationship if he didn't feel like he was needed. And again, when I say "needed" I'm not talking about calling him every single hour, or not having a life of your own. I think some women are just good at playing the "helpless" route, or are good at making their SO's feel like a "hero". So, in turn the guy feels good!

IN reality, women like a man that makes them feel more like a woman, and a man wants a woman that makes him feel more like a man. Therefore, a woman who is "feminine" will make a man feel more like a man. No, you can say that hair length or looks has something to do with it, but ultimately, I think it's the way a woman makes a man FEEL like a man that is the key.

BTW, I DO looooove me some dark-skinned chocolate men! But, I really don't mind the complexion of a guy as long as he's nice-looking. White, dark, light, hispanic, etc...doesn't matter to me. I'm an equal-opportunity dater!

 

[Summer_Rain]

Interesting.....

When have Black women not been independent minded in THIS country? By independent, I mean having the mentality and wherewithall to provide for self and family. I don't recall people talking about a time when Black women stayed at home, took care of the kids, and maintained the lawn and garden while married to Johnnie who worked all day. It was not that way for "us" (correct me if I am wrong). Most (if not darn near all) Black women worked to provide something for the kids while married or not. It may not have been salaried but women sold baked goods, did hair in their basements, sold avon, did book keeping, sewing, babysitting, you name it. Some did two or three of these things at a time. Some did these things while holding down a job, full or part time.

I don't understand the mentality that "now" Black women come across as independent and therefore unable to maintain a relationship. As I don't believe our independence is newfold, I don't find the correlation.

While I agree that this "independence" is nothing new for black women, that doesn't take away from what many men (and specifically black men) desire in terms of wanting to feel like a "man".

I'm not suggesting that black women are emasculating black men, but when you really look at the dynamic in white relationships, asian relationships, spanish, etc...there ARE differences in the leadership role.

Now I'm also NOT suggesting that non black women are some how weak or less independent, but I'd imagine if you were to poll non-black women, they way they go about balancing independence & their relationship is much different.

The "i don't need YOU for ****....you ain't ****....i can do bad by my damn self" rhetoric is all too common by black women towards black men. But I agree with you and another poster that indicated that black women have just NEVER had the luxury of sitting back and just letting our men "handle that". For centuries in this country, allowing a black man to "handle that" certainly meant death for him

So while black women may have been socially conditioned this way, black men have also been somewhat conditioned as well.

 

[ambergirl]

While I agree that this "independence" is nothing new for black women, that doesn't take away from what many men (and specifically black men) desire in terms of wanting to feel like a "man".

I'm not suggesting that black women are emasculating black men, but when you really look at the dynamic in white relationships, asian relationships, spanish, etc...there ARE differences in the leadership role.

Now I'm also NOT suggesting that non black women are some how weak or less independent, but I'd imagine if you were to poll non-black women, they way they go about balancing independence & their relationship is much different.

The "i don't need YOU for ****....you ain't ****....i can do bad by my damn self" rhetoric is all too common by black women towards black men. But I agree with you and another poster that indicated that black women have just NEVER had the luxury of sitting back and just letting our men "handle that". For centuries in this country, allowing a black man to "handle that" certainly meant death for him

So while black women may have been socially conditioned this way, black men have also been somewhat conditioned as well.

I agree. That attitude is not productive. Even if you feel that way, it's certainly not going to help your relationship to express it like that. I think we take a certain pride in not taking any ****, but may be shooting ourselves in the foot regarding how we express that.

 

[envybeauty]

While I agree that this "independence" is nothing new for black women, that doesn't take away from what many men (and specifically black men) desire in terms of wanting to feel like a "man".

I'm not suggesting that black women are emasculating black men, but when you really look at the dynamic in white relationships, asian relationships, spanish, etc...there ARE differences in the leadership role.

Now I'm also NOT suggesting that non black women are some how weak or less independent, but I'd imagine if you were to poll non-black women, they way they go about balancing independence & their relationship is much different.

The "i don't need YOU for ****....you ain't ****....i can do bad by my damn self" rhetoric is all too common by black women towards black men. But I agree with you and another poster that indicated that black women have just NEVER had the luxury of sitting back and just letting our men "handle that". For centuries in this country, allowing a black man to "handle that" certainly meant death for him

So while black women may have been socially conditioned this way, black men have also been somewhat conditioned as well.

So has this been an ongoing complaint or is it new? The complaint that Black women act like they don't need a man.... did Black women act this independent in the 40s, 50s, and 60s? Did Black men complain about it back then too?

I am just trying to figure out if this rhethoric is new or are our men using our long standing independence only now to justify why they act they way they do TODAY. Because the way I see it, a lot of Black men have CHANGED from back in the day. Black men of yesterday supported their families. Today, they marry the woman after the kid is born and not before; some not at all. Some moons ago, a Black man would hustle with different jobs instead of milking different women to support their lifestyle. That was yesterday..my daddy's generation

 

[Softresses]

I was once told by an older black man, that I am intimidating to black men because of my education and my career.

I was also told by a minister in my church, "to lower my standards and "let my pedistal down and a man will climb up on it." Keep in mind that I was enjoying my life at the time the way it was. Both stupid statements were made to me by older black men designed to help me get a man.

It seems if you look like you don't mind your own company you must have a problem that can only be fixed by being with a man. I think these men were trying to school me on what is "wrong with black women."

It is almost to the point that no matter what we do the weak minded of men will always try to blame their own masculine insecurities on us.


For example:

If I have my own career and pay my bills......"oh you don't NEED a man."
If I rely on others to take care of me........."oh you a lazy welfare woman."
If I look for a man with more prestige than me..."oh you a GOLDIGGER."
If I don't put out ..........."oh you must be a lesbian."
If I do put out........."oh can't marry her she's to easy."
If I ask questions on a date...."oh you all in my pocket lookin for change."
If I don't ask questions, "oh you don't listen to a brother."

I am sick of those stupid games and I REFUSE to play anymore. There must be some men still out there not into playing these dumb games.

Until then, I'll be dating me!

Softresses

 

[Whimsy]

I think black women are only intimidating to men who aren't about anything.

If you're a man who's intelligent, successful (by whatever your personal view of success is), and moving forward with your goals, WHY on earth would you want someone who isnt? You would not be intimidated by a woman who was intelligent and upwardly mobile, you'd be HAPPY to hitch on to that prize creation.

Our strength is NOT our weakness. A skewed view of what 'strength' is may be our weakness. Pushing a quality partner away simply to prove you don't NEED them, or to show them you can handle yourself is SILLY, not Strong.

Getting your education, a quality career, raising happy healthy children, taking good care of your physical/mental/emotional health, your posessions, and living a moral life etc..... that's strong.

Your strength is your strength! Don't let that go for anyone.

 

[angie10]

hrmmmm I'm kind of comming late to this thread and I didn't get a chance to read the replys. I will probably come back to it later. I do think that the word Independence is used a lot, and that word is probably doing more harm than good to most black women. We have to understand what it really means to be independent woman and still have a family. And still know the roles we're suppose to play

 

[sunshinebeautiful]

It is almost to the point that no matter what we do the weak minded of men will always try to blame their own masculine insecurities on us.

For example:

If I have my own career and pay my bills......"oh you don't NEED a man."
If I rely on others to take care of me........."oh you a lazy welfare woman."
If I look for a man with more prestige than me..."oh you a GOLDIGGER."
If I don't put out ..........."oh you must be a lesbian."
If I do put out........."oh can't marry her she's to easy."
If I ask questions on a date...."oh you all in my pocket lookin for change."
If I don't ask questions, "oh you don't listen to a brother."

For real, sometimes it's like damned if you do, damned if you don't. With all of these stereotypes and double-standards flying all over the place, you can't win for losing.

 

[sunshinebeautiful]

So has this been an ongoing complaint or is it new? The complaint that Black women act like they don't need a man.... did Black women act this independent in the 40s, 50s, and 60s? Did Black men complain about it back then too?

I am just trying to figure out if this rhethoric is new or are our men using our long standing independence only now to justify why they act they way they do TODAY. Because the way I see it, a lot of Black men have CHANGED from back in the day.

I feel exactly where you're coming from. This does seem like a recent phenomenon, as far as complaints that Black women are too strong or too independent. That didn't stop Black men from wanting to be with or building families with Black women in the past yet this is what we're hearing today.

 

[Tee]

I am just glad to see it so many indepentant women around here. I just cant stand the type of women who think they can't function without a man to think for them.

 

[ambergirl]

I was once told by an older black man, that I am intimidating to black men because of my education and my career.

I was also told by a minister in my church, "to lower my standards and "let my pedistal down and a man will climb up on it." Keep in mind that I was enjoying my life at the time the way it was. Both stupid statements were made to me by older black men designed to help me get a man.

It seems if you look like you don't mind your own company you must have a problem that can only be fixed by being with a man. I think these men were trying to school me on what is "wrong with black women."

It is almost to the point that no matter what we do the weak minded of men will always try to blame their own masculine insecurities on us.


For example:

If I have my own career and pay my bills......"oh you don't NEED a man."
If I rely on others to take care of me........."oh you a lazy welfare woman."
If I look for a man with more prestige than me..."oh you a GOLDIGGER."
If I don't put out ..........."oh you must be a lesbian."
If I do put out........."oh can't marry her she's to easy."
If I ask questions on a date...."oh you all in my pocket lookin for change."
If I don't ask questions, "oh you don't listen to a brother."

I am sick of those stupid games and I REFUSE to play anymore. There must be some men still out there not into playing these dumb games.

Until then, I'll be dating me!

Softresses

Yup!!!!! I'm definitely signing on to this. I'm so glad to hear that other ladies feel the way I do. Sometimes you do wonder, is it me? What am I doing to attract this? But threads like this remind me that this kind of stuff isn't personal, it's about bigger things going on in our community.

 

[chicacanella]

On average, black men tend to appear slightly more and Asian men slightly less masculine than white men, while Asian women are typically seen as slightly more and black women as slightly less feminine than white women.

Do you think this is true? Not as far as fact, but as far as perception. Is this how society thinks? Is the "strong black woman" image working against us? I know that some have indicated the contents of the article do not hold a lot of water, but how many have said that black men only date white women because they let them walk all over them...so is the reverse true...are they not dating black women because we dont put up with foolishness or stroke their ego?


3a. Within races: Black men tend to most ardently pursue lighter-skinned, longer-haired black women (e.g., Spike Lee's School Daze). Yet black women today do not generally prefer fairer men.

2. This general principle -- the more racial integration there is, the more important become physical differences among the races -- can also be seen with regard to hair length. The ability to grow long hair is a useful indicator of youth and good health. (Ask anybody on chemotherapy.) Since women do not go bald and can generally grow longer hair than men, most cultures associate longer hair with femininity. Although blacks' hair doesn't grow as long as whites' or Asians' hair, that's not a problem for black women in all-black societies. After integration, though, hair often becomes an intense concern for black women competing with longer-haired women of other races. While intellectuals in black-studies departments' ebony towers denounce ``Eurocentric standards of beauty,'' most black women respond more pragmatically. They one-up white women by buying straight from the source of the longest hair: the Wall Street Journal recently reported on the booming business in furnishing African-American women with ``weaves'' and ``extensions'' harvested from the follicularly gifted women of China.

Now we all know that black women CAN grow their hair long, but the point of this quote is to ask...are black women seen as a "gentle" woman? I have heard us describe with gentle spirits and treasures "if you can get past our defenses"...but in the day to day world..are we in general seen as delicate or helpless or any of the other "feminine" things? Do black men actually believe we dont need them so they are migrating to folx "more needy but less demanding"? Are men growing up watching their mothers run a household single handedly, being the mother and the father, and coming to the conclusion that they want someone who will need them and black women dont?

ETA: Never mind I figured out how to edit the poll...Anyway...thoughts please...

No, we are not seen as gentle women, African-American women that is. I think African women many be seen as more feminine and I think it has to do with our cultural background and history. In fact, I'm sure it is.

I guess you can say I am not like what most people think a black women's attitude should be like, it could be because of my age but I think it just isnt me. I know people younger than me who have the attitude you are speaking of but I won't lie, I need a good man in my life and being that I am not the dominant-type of personality when it comes to romantic relationships, I have no problem at all.

 

[MissMeWithThatIsh]

Re: Spin off # 2: Is our strength our weakness when it comes to relationships??

I think many hold these perceptions but I dont they they are all necessarily true. I'm old fashioned and I think that I get too agreeable sometimes. I expect the man to be in capable and to handle a tradtional male role. On my own I am strong but in a relationship I tend to think of the traditional roles.

Yup.

Overall I think that it's important that we realize and recognize the difference between independence and bo-guarding on a man. There's a way to be independent and feminine without losing your sensuality.

The most important thing we as women need to realize is that our femininity is our most powerful ally against men. You can be a strong, sexy, sporty, intelligent woman, but if you are HARD as HELL ... like a ROCK, you will turn a man off... even the most masculine of them. You have to cultivate your strength... and coat it in feminine wiles.

Many of us might not have learned how to do this because we've been characteristically defeminized by AMERICAN society. We've been mainly taught we're all loud, rough and undesirable. When we're on our Ps and Qs, we're killing them hard.

If a Black man doesn't want you for a bogus reason (that he'll stereotypically describe)... then he wouldn't have wanted you if YOU were perfect anyway.

Stop giving a damn about the men who don't want you, even if they are Black like you. I know what types of men I'm attracted to... and they come in a bunch of different races. I have enough men ready and waiting for me if one man acts up... and it has more to do with my character than anything. And a lot of these men are Black. I am not the prettiest chick ever, and I'm not the slimmest...

I have a bangin' Black man by my side as well.

I think a lot of us are focusing too much on spilled milk.

 

[fmnnity]

Yes .

 

[fmnnity]

Re: Spin off # 2: Is our strength our weakness when it comes to relationships??

Yup.

Overall I think that it's important that we realize and recognize the difference between independence and bo-guarding on a man. There's a way to be independent and feminine without losing your sensuality.

The most important thing we as women need to realize is that our femininity is our most powerful ally against men. You can be a strong, sexy, sporty, intelligent woman, but if you are HARD as HELL ... like a ROCK, you will turn a man off... even the most masculine of them. You have to cultivate your strength... and coat it in feminine wiles.

Many of us might not have learned how to do this because we've been characteristically defeminized by AMERICAN society. We've been mainly taught we're all loud, rough and undesirable. When we're on our Ps and Qs, we're killing them hard.

If a Black man doesn't want you for a bogus reason (that he'll stereotypically describe)... then he wouldn't have wanted you if YOU were perfect anyway.

Stop giving a damn about the men who don't want you, even if they are Black like you. I know what types of men I'm attracted to... and they come in a bunch of different races. I have enough men ready and waiting for me if one man acts up... and it has more to do with my character than anything. And a lot of these men are Black. I am not the prettiest chick ever, and I'm not the slimmest...

I have a bangin' Black man by my side as well.

I think a lot of us are focusing too much on spilled milk.

Well said especially the bolded. I feel like if he is with someone else then that's where he wants to be and it's not with you. Why waste your energy on lending it thought?

 

[inspiration150]

I picked felt less feminine with short hair only b4 i came to this forum my hair was always shoulder length but I didn't consider that long. I also picked played down my strengths for a man. I normally am a very gentle spirit. But if I am bothered by something and want to address it I find myself trying to go over carefully how I word it so they don't think I have an attitude or telling them what to do. It really is so frustrating because you don't want someone to overthink what you mean or play down whatever ur feeling. I don't want someone to think i am unapproachable. I often felt that mostly when someone of another race gets upset and expresses it no one tells them that they are being ghetto most of time. But even if you say whatever in less disrespectful terms it can be perceived that way more often because I am a black woman. This is not with all parties, but certain ppl I have come across. In some cases other black individuals. I am sure my b/f wouldn't see it that way. But I didn't want to take the risk of getting to what might be perceived as too confrontational.

 

[inspiration150]

It can be our weakness more than our strength. I think the problem is black women sometimes don't know when to be strong and when to be passive. They choose the wrong time to strong. Like arguing over some dumb crap in the store. Some black women sadly due have a chip over there shoulder. Because they believe they have been dealt the crappy hand. So that adds to the hostility that you might see. But allowing themselves to have tons of kids by a man and letting him walk all over her. That is the time you should say listen get it together. You don't have to make a scene, but let what you have to say out without looking like you don't have manners. People who don't know when to be which make it bad for the rest of us, because when we want to say something and express it. It's like "whoah angry black woman coming through" and its not even always that serious. Sadly, these people are always put on the spotlight. That and the fact overachieving woman are perceived as mannish. Like, how they tried to play Hillary like that. Now when a black woman has here stuff together its like "ooh look at this strong black woman right here" which is a compliment. But can sometimes be perceived as a b*ll busting woman who is stiff and stern. So when a guy sees that they felt intimidated "Like what could I possible offer her". They feel emasculated. Some woman might use that over him in some cases not all. It appears that woman want someone on their level or higher up which we discussed in an earlier thread. But I guess it can be a lot to hold a man up to sometimes to some men. Just like the whole single mothers thing for most shows well she doesn't need me she been doing it for sometime. Most guys that are scared are immature. It takes a good man to see we might need you, but we want you. I think black women need to find a happy balance. Never stop achieving just don't rule out a man for financial stuff. Relationships are not just about stability but the heart. I think we have been so used sometimes to struggling to make it that we forget about the emotional. I do not think think that we are angry bitter people as a whole. I think the perception is true.

I also wanted to add men like to feel in control in their "rightful" place as a man. So now the whole long hair thing or w/e us not looking feminine enough is the fact man feel they are really the man when they have the cream of the crop. Now in our media we are told that black woman are at the bottom of the barrel. When our women have been for centuries trying to push our men forward. In most cases, going out of the usual "cleaning and cooking" to help out financially and voice opinions. Now that combined with the stereotype attitude black woman and the fact we our supposedly considered not top notch ( we all no that is false ladies) is the apparent reason we are considered the most masculine in perception. It's all about what is considered "in". But for some reason men have told me that they like divas. Beautiful women with attitude. So thats what I could decipher ladies.

 

[cocoberry10]

I think that Black women are automatically perceived as "strong" so that if they do things that even other races of women do (in terms of reaction), it is assumed that we have an attitude.

However, that "strong Black woman" issue is a problem in our community. It masks the deep anger, pain and insecurity a lot of us are dealing with. We have to let that go.