Spinoff: Are "educated" black women more likely to be in IRR relationships?

[Daeuiel]

I dunno about that.

I will say this though...

I notice that certain classes of black women and white men will gravitate toward one another.

For instance, high school diploma Bubba from kentucky will likely fancy high school diploma Shalondra from up the road.

Wall street financier Tony will likely fancy PHD/MD Latoya from UWS.

Oooh, I apparently gravitated toward someone of a different class than me, I don't have a college degree but my SO does.
-'Shalondra' lol

 

[pisceschica]

I used to argue this, but then I started to look at how many of the black men who were in IRR met their girlfriends. Mostly through hanging out, friendships, partying. They generally either hung out with blacks/other races equally or just hung out with other races more often than not.

If a black man is looking specifically for a black woman, he has more a selection than a black female looking specifically for a black man (on the same level). If he's just looking for a girlfriend, then it really depends on social circles.

I'd be more surprised if an HBCU black man dated a white female in college versus a PWI black man.

But that was my point. If the educated black man is specifically looking for a black woman on his level (educationally) he has way more choices than a black female with the same attributes.

 

[pisceschica]

I think that's exaggerating a bit.

I go to a PWI. I don't know the ratio of black men to black women here, but there are PLENTY of black male students at my school. And although bw outnumber them, there are also plenty of eligible bm bachelor's at HBCUs.

If you want to meet/date educated black men, you can find them. Go where they are. (You may have to move if you don't live in the right demographic area.)

They can easily be found at black events, black student union meetings, African student meetings, Caribbean student meetings, frat events, African-American courses, etc.

Now, if one only defines "educated" has having a post grad degree, pickings of black men will be slim. But not VERY slim. Join the black graduate student society. Join other professional black organizations, journalists, doctors, lawyers, engineers, business, etc.

If all else fails, find yourself an African.
PLENTY of them around (educated and black).

I'm starting to feel like many "educated" black men and women like to find any excuse possible not to date each other.

I'm not looking for an excuse to date interracially black or mixed with black would be my first choice because of physical attraction and not having to worry about racist friends or family.

My experieces are just that. A good majority of black men in my surrounding area don't have education past high school. You would have to travel farther north into Fairfax, Arlington, and even into D.C. to fin black men wih education.

And again like I said in previous posts and like you said about your experience in college black educated women (atleast a bachelors) outnumber black men so at the end of the day even if I was to go to an area populated wtb educated black men you still have to deal with the reality that say there are 4-5 educated black women for kme black male.

 

[lushcoils]

I don't even know why I'm so hopeful about educated bw and bm getting together when my dating life doesn't exist. But when I look around my campus, I see so many gorgeous black male students getting their education. It seems like it's almost even. So IME, I still feel like if I could attract educated black men and wanted to date an educated black men, my chances are high as an educated black women. Like I said before, if you run in the right circles, it's very probable.

 

[Maracujá]

If all else fails, find yourself an African.

Only if all else fails huh?

 

[lushcoils]

Only if all else fails huh?

Well if African men aren't your thing and you really want to marry an educated black man, then, yea.

I prefer to date educated Nigerian American or white American or European men, so those are who I'm looking out for. If all else fails, I'll consider other educated men if I find them attractive.

 

[frida1980]

Dating africans is difficult because culturally we are so different from them. Contrary to beliefs, we are very little like africans. They haven't be westernized like we have, and contain several beliefs and traditions that we would not agree with. Despite the fact that we may have the same ancestry, blacks don't understand that sometimes dating an african is the same as dating any foreigner. I for one, can't do it. I'd be more likely to date someone Japanese or Mexican than African.

 

[Kurlee]

could u elaborate ^^^ ? I have no experience in this area.

 

[tocktick]

Dating africans is difficult because culturally we are so different from them. Contrary to beliefs, we are very little like africans. They haven't be westernized like we have, and contain several beliefs and traditions that we would not agree with. Despite the fact that we may have the same ancestry, blacks don't understand that sometimes dating an african is the same as dating any foreigner. I for one, can't do it. I'd be more likely to date someone Japanese or Mexican than African.

I also second you elaborating, please. I'm a British born Nigerian myself. I believe many Africans (born & raised for much/all of their formative years), especially those in their early 30s from major African cities, have been quite westernised a fair bit. Some of their views regarding gender roles may be different but I believe their views will be a bit less rigid than they may be if they live in the Western world for a while. With that said, I know some African men who hold views many women on this board seem to agree with themselves. I hate to be so general because views and traditions differ so much even between tribes of the same country, talk less of different countries on opposite sites of the continent.

Regardless, I'm interested in what these "several beliefs and traditions we could not agree with" that you speak of are. Especially because both Mexico and Japan have socially acceptable views and certain social norms that I do not think would really gel well with some views many modern Western women have. In fact, I have heard many a time of Japanese woman seeking Western men because Japanese men's views about marriage, relationships and love do not even gel with their own. Yet they were all raised in the same country! If you are aware of some of the views that I'm speaking of with regards to Japan and Mexico (I'm assuming you may do since you brought these countries up in particular), I'd be interested in knowing what about their views you could accept and how it differs from the African traditions/beliefs you think Western women cannot agree with. If you can narrow it down to specific countries too, that would be interesting too because you may have a perspective on a country I know nothing about.

 

[LunadeMiel]

Dating africans is difficult because culturally we are so different from them. Contrary to beliefs, we are very little like africans. They haven't be westernized like we have, and contain several beliefs and traditions that we would not agree with. Despite the fact that we may have the same ancestry, blacks don't understand that sometimes dating an african is the same as dating any foreigner. I for one, can't do it. I'd be more likely to date someone Japanese or Mexican than African.

Do you know many Africans? I went to school with many Japanese/Chinese foreign students and best believe some of their views aren't any more westernized an "African". Secondly, which "Africans" are you referring to?

 

[qchelle]

Dating African men discussion going on in another part of the board for those interested: http://www.longhaircareforum.com/showthread.php?p=11799806#post11799806

 

[frida1980]

I gave those examples because those are two cultures that I'm deeply familiar with. I've spent lots of time living in Mexico, dated Mexicans, and know what's expected of me as woman and foreigner. I'm deeply in love with Mexico, so there would be less of a culture shock in that case. As for Asians, I've been way too interested in asian culture as well. I plan on living there. I've dated both groups so I'm more familiar. I wasn't saying that tell people it would be easier than dating africans. I was using that as a personal example.

My point was africans are no different from any other foreigner and should be approached as such. Their not just black men with accents. I've know several africans of several different places, education levels, etc. Keep in mind if ANYONE grows up in the US and is mingling with the average americans for their childhood, they will be very much like any other american. However, if this is an study abroad student of 22 years of age that never been to the US, expect some differences. What kind of differences may depend on the country. Islam, for example, may be a problem if your a devote christian.

All I was saying was, dating an african really is no different that dating another nationality/ ethnic group. There are challenges with them both and people should take an open minded approach when dating other nationalities. It's not the easy option as it seems.

 

[tocktick]

I gave those examples because those are two cultures that I'm deeply familiar with. I've spent lots of time living in Mexico, dated Mexicans, and know what's expected of me as woman and foreigner. I'm deeply in love with Mexico, so there would be less of a culture shock in that case. As for Asians, I've been way too interested in asian culture as well. I plan on living there. I've dated both groups so I'm more familiar. I wasn't saying that tell people it would be easier than dating africans. I was using that as a personal example.

My point was africans are no different from any other foreigner and should be approached as such. Their not just black men with accents. I've know several africans of several different places, education levels, etc. Keep in mind if ANYONE grows up in the US and is mingling with the average americans for their childhood, they will be very much like any other american. However, if this is an study abroad student of 22 years of age that never been to the US, expect some differences. What kind of differences may depend on the country. Islam, for example, may be a problem if your a devote christian.

All I was saying was, dating an african really is no different that dating another nationality/ ethnic group. There are challenges with them both and people should take an open minded approach when dating other nationalities. It's not the easy option as it seems.

Thanks for elaborating somewhat . I did not presume you mentioned those two countries because you were insinuating it would be easier.

I hope it doesn't seem like I'm berating you - I ultimately see no issue with you choosing to never date African men but I cannot deny that you have piqued my curiosity because I see so many similarities between the continents from my own perspective. Thus it does seem curious to me that you've effectively written off one continent of people but not another. I would be saying a similar thing in a reverse situation, btw.

Maybe I'm not seeing it better from your angle because aside from vaguely bringing up religion, you've yet to really expound on what views/traditions African people have that you don't believe gels with Western women and whether those views are missing from Western culture and other cultures too. You mention Islam, yet Christianity is very much wide-spread in many African nations. I would also say that the issue of differing religions is hardly unique to Western women open to dating African men but something that can be found on your own soil.

I agree that dating a someone not only from a different culture but raised in a different culture is not necessarily easy. Yet based on your first post, you have seemingly kept open minded about Asians but not about Africans despite both being foreign cultures to your own. Your love of Asian culture and your plan to live there doesn't make the prevailing attitudes about women/marriage etc held in some of those countries (thinking specifically of Japan) any less common. As I mentioned above, I think a lot of the societal norms re: marriage, dating and women have the same kind of principles. Hence my curiosity. I hope you don't mind sharing your thoughts further.

 

[frida1980]

I'm pretty complex and rigid in all of my POVs, so trying to understand the madness is difficult even for me sometimes. But yes, mother Africa is off limits. I honestly can't explain this with getting an long convoluted back and forth discussion that will end up with someone actually saying that I'm wrong, self hating or need therapy for some vague reason. I've done this in way too many message boards, and after a while... it gets difficult to constantly defend yourself for a throwaway comment. So not this time, please. I'm not up for this "talk" at this moment.

 

[Mari-Cris]

I think that's exaggerating a bit.

I go to a PWI. I don't know the ratio of black men to black women here, but there are PLENTY of black male students at my school. And although bw outnumber them, there are also plenty of eligible bm bachelor's at HBCUs.

If you want to meet/date educated black men, you can find them. Go where they are. (You may have to move if you don't live in the right demographic area.)

They can easily be found at black events, black student union meetings, African student meetings, Caribbean student meetings, frat events, African-American courses, etc.

Now, if one only defines "educated" has having a post grad degree, pickings of black men will be slim. But not VERY slim. Join the black graduate student society. Join other professional black organizations, journalists, doctors, lawyers, engineers, business, etc.

If all else fails, find yourself an African.
PLENTY of them around (educated and black).

I'm starting to feel like many "educated" black men and women like to find any excuse possible not to date each other.

It is not about finding an excuse to date/marry IR. Why does there need to be some sort of justification at ALL about why someone is in an IRR? Why does someone have to date and try out 25 black guys before they are "allowed" (maybe) to date a guy from another race?

It is about black men NOT BEING FIRST PRIORITY - that's all. It's about men of all races being considered in a woman's dating pool and weeding out quality men from the non-quality men - regardless of race. When you operate from this premise, you see everybody in the global village as a potential mate.

 

[anon123]

They do, but not by a whole lot. That is, people of any race marrying out, not just black women. At least not those who got married in 2008. There was a Pew research report on it.
http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1616/american-marriage-interracial-interethnic
Do a find on the word "education".

 

[lijm83]

For me, level of education coincides with social circles. This is NOT referring to intelligence. I'm not sure if that's what's being questioned here.

If you are the only black female in your engineering group, you are most likely going to be surrounded by white/Asian men on a regular basis. You might find your mate within this circle, you might not. But since most people spend most of their lives toiling away at their jobs, there's a greater likelihood.

I agree with this post. Studies show that the partner you end up with coincides with the social circles you're in.
My SO is a BM (post grad like myself). But I do think educated black women tend to be more open minded to possibilities available to them as well, although this could also coincide with the social circles you're in.

 

[JustKiya]

Wow.

When I read the initial question, my first response was - well, of course they are!

Education often comes hand in hand with expanding your horizons - and that expansion often takes you into different cultures. Heck, the mere act of leaving home to go to college means that you have experienced more than your home girl who is staying in your home town and 'hates traveling' most likely ever will. And that's just the first step.

The more your horizons expand, usually, the more your boundaries do, too. And for black women, black men are 'default'. They are the standard. When it comes down to it, they are who MOST of us are going to be in a long-term relationship with - expanded horizons, or not.

As for those of us who are not in a relationship with a black man? Out of that much smaller group, yes, I would expect it to be weighted with more women who are 'educated' than those who stopped their education at high school. Is that group going to be 100% educated women? Of course not, there are always exceptions to the average.

Why does this have to be a point of contention? Why can't it be viewed as the logical fact that it is - the further you go from 'home', the more likely you are to fall in love with a stranger.

Add to that the fact that not only does education expand your horizons, in turn, it tends to expand your dreams and goals. So when the percentage of the 'familar men' who have what you now want in a man (which is likely to be more than you would want if you didn't have that higher education) is significantly lower than the percentage of women who are looking for that familiar man - and you travel and socialize in circles of 'strangers'........ well.

Yeah. You're gonna be more likely to bring a non-black man home.

 

[lijm83]

Wow.

When I read the initial question, my first response was - well, of course they are!

Education often comes hand in hand with expanding your horizons - and that expansion often takes you into different cultures. Heck, the mere act of leaving home to go to college means that you have experienced more than your home girl who is staying in your home town and 'hates traveling' most likely ever will. And that's just the first step.

The more your horizons expand, usually, the more your boundaries do, too. And for black women, black men are 'default'. They are the standard. When it comes down to it, they are who MOST of us are going to be in a long-term relationship with - expanded horizons, or not.

As for those of us who are not in a relationship with a black man? Out of that much smaller group, yes, I would expect it to be weighted with more women who are 'educated' than those who stopped their education at high school. Is that group going to be 100% educated women? Of course not, there are always exceptions to the average.

Why does this have to be a point of contention? Why can't it be viewed as the logical fact that it is - the further you go from 'home', the more likely you are to fall in love with a stranger.

Add to that the fact that not only does education expand your horizons, in turn, it tends to expand your dreams and goals. So when the percentage of the 'familar men' who have what you now want in a man (which is likely to be more than you would want if you didn't have that higher education) is significantly lower than the percentage of women who are looking for that familiar man - and you travel and socialize in circles of 'strangers'........ well.

Yeah. You're gonna be more likely to bring a non-black man home.

At the bolded, for me it was the exact opposite. I have dated two white men when I was younger. They where very close to 'home' (my social circles). I have always been open to other cultures, this was and still is apparent in my circle of friends. My SO, now that I'm further from home, isn't a 'stranger' I actually ended up with a familiar. This is also due to my expanding my horizon's.

I think things are different here then in the States also, so I think that factors in to my experience as well.

 

[JustKiya]

At the bolded, for me it was the exact opposite. I have dated two with white men when I was younger. They where very close to 'home' (my social circles). I have always been open to other cultures, this was and still is apparent in my circle of friends. My SO, now that I'm further from home, isn't a 'stranger' I actually ended up with a familiar. This is also due to my expanding my horizon's.

I think things are different here then in the States also, so I think that factors in to my experience as well.

Ah, yes. We are talking strictly the American experience here - not trying to be global. The entire world has race-relation issues, but America has it's own uniquely twisted set of race relation issues. Trying to compare IRR here to IRR in the UK would be - interesting, I think.

 

[lijm83]

Ah, yes. We are talking strictly the American experience here - not trying to be global. The entire world has race-relation issues, but America has it's own uniquely twisted set of race relation issues. Trying to compare IRR here to IRR in the UK would be - interesting, I think.

Lol, try the Netherlands. I believe there are differences between the situation in the UK vs the Netherlands vs the US as well. It is indeed very interesting though.

But I do believe that the Social circles plays a very big role no matter the country/continent/city.

 

[JustKiya]

Lol, try the Netherlands. I believe there are differences between the situation in the UK vs the Netherlands as well.

But I do believe that the Social circles plays a very big role no matter the country/continent/city.

Oh, UK was jsut the first place that popped in my head - I think there was a thread around here on that, but yeah, any other place in the world, really. Different cultures, different histories, different issues between the races. Well, at least they manifest differently.

 

[lijm83]

Oh, UK was jsut the first place that popped in my head - I think there was a thread around here on that, but yeah, any other place in the world, really. Different cultures, different histories, different issues between the races. Well, at least they manifest differently.

Lol they do indeed. I notice this a lot even in the way there is being thought about relationships. If I get the chance I'll most certainly do a study about this. Because this is a really interesting subject.

 

[BillsBackerz67]

Reflecting from Kiya' post

Once I left home in Buffalo I went to school in Baltimore for a year. Had etablished many friendships in the caribbean populaton of the school and the same predicament happened when I transferred back to new york state and went to college in Plattsburgh. IDK why but I guess we had an affinity for eachother? In Plattsburgh I started talking to white guys for the very first time and continued to do so up until last year. Now Im with my SO and he is from the UK with roots in St Lucia.

Its funny because he said I was the first AA girl not to get all excited and google eyed because of his accent He said that indication right there said a lot about the girl and she doesnt get out much and couldnt be with someone like that. I honestly think had I not left Buffalo been exposed to different people and "strangers" while I was away at school I prob would have been excited

 

[LadyPaniolo]

Um, yes. I'm pretty sure the facts back that up.

 

[honeycomb719]

I'm inclined to say yes.

 

[Maracujá]

To answer the question: perhaps in the US, but it's not the case where I live, it's actually the other way around in most cases.

 

[carcajada]

I still say no.

I think it has to do with the black women who choose to wait and wait and wait for an exclusive relationship or marriage. You hear this topic amongst old-ish black women who waited to take relationships seriously until they were done with their educations. Then all of the sudden they look around and they feel they are presented with different options.

I've never heard this topic come up IRL amongst women who chose to get their MRS degree while pursuing academics.

 

[frida1980]

I still say no.

I think it has to do with the black women who choose to wait and wait and wait for an exclusive relationship or marriage. You hear this topic amongst old-ish black women who waited to take relationships seriously until they were done with their educations. Then all of the sudden they look around and they feel they are presented with different options.

I've never heard this topic come up IRL amongst women who chose to get their MRS degree while pursuing academics.

Kinda weird to hear that since most people I know in IRL started doing it in high school or college. Me included. I don't think that all BW in IRL are just people who missed their chance and are now settling for other races since their are no BM left. I think IRL have less to do with BM and more with BW as individuals.

I still say that IRL are mostly due to two factors. The amount of exposure that black women have to other men and the growing independence of BW.

If she is in an environment where she seldom socializes with other races, meaning school, neighborhood, organizations, she'll most likely only pair up with other blacks. However, now many middle class blacks bring their kids up in mixed neighborhoods and schools. Their more likely to interact with other races.

Second, I think more BW are becoming more independent. Instead of doing the "acceptable," they're choosing for themselves what they want in their life. Ironically, independent women also tend to be educated women. By the time you hit college and you find your personal interests, you start connecting with other people. By this point woman decide for themselves what they want in a man and their life, rather than what others want for them.

I think that people make excuses to get around the fact that more BW are choosing outside of their race.