Spin off #: Is our strength our weakness when it comes to relationships??

[Enchantmt]

On average, black men tend to appear slightly more and Asian men slightly less masculine than white men, while Asian women are typically seen as slightly more and black women as slightly less feminine than white women.

Do you think this is true? Not as far as fact, but as far as perception. Is this how society thinks? Is the "strong black woman" image working against us? I know that some have indicated the contents of the article do not hold a lot of water, but how many have said that black men only date white women because they let them walk all over them...so is the reverse true...are they not dating black women because we dont put up with foolishness or stroke their ego?


3a. Within races: Black men tend to most ardently pursue lighter-skinned, longer-haired black women (e.g., Spike Lee's School Daze). Yet black women today do not generally prefer fairer men.

2. This general principle -- the more racial integration there is, the more important become physical differences among the races -- can also be seen with regard to hair length. The ability to grow long hair is a useful indicator of youth and good health. (Ask anybody on chemotherapy.) Since women do not go bald and can generally grow longer hair than men, most cultures associate longer hair with femininity. Although blacks' hair doesn't grow as long as whites' or Asians' hair, that's not a problem for black women in all-black societies. After integration, though, hair often becomes an intense concern for black women competing with longer-haired women of other races. While intellectuals in black-studies departments' ebony towers denounce ``Eurocentric standards of beauty,'' most black women respond more pragmatically. They one-up white women by buying straight from the source of the longest hair: the Wall Street Journal recently reported on the booming business in furnishing African-American women with ``weaves'' and ``extensions'' harvested from the follicularly gifted women of China.

Now we all know that black women CAN grow their hair long, but the point of this quote is to ask...are black women seen as a "gentle" woman? I have heard us describe with gentle spirits and treasures "if you can get past our defenses"...but in the day to day world..are we in general seen as delicate or helpless or any of the other "feminine" things? Do black men actually believe we dont need them so they are migrating to folx "more needy but less demanding"? Are men growing up watching their mothers run a household single handedly, being the mother and the father, and coming to the conclusion that they want someone who will need them and black women dont?

ETA: Never mind I figured out how to edit the poll...Anyway...thoughts please...

 

[Country gal]

White women being weak and mild tempered is such a myth. I had relatives romantically involved with white women and when you make them mad, some of them have been downright spiteful.


I meet men who are unintimidated by my strength. As long as there is a place for it. I think men do enjoy the fact that I am holding my own and not looking for a handout from them. I am very content in being the feminine role in the relationship. I don't need to always take the lead in fact it is turn off for me.

 

[Enchantmt]

Re: Spin off # 2: Is our strength our weakness when it comes to relationships??

I think many hold these perceptions but I dont they they are all necessarily true. I'm old fashioned and I think that I get too agreeable sometimes. I expect the man to be in capable and to handle a tradtional male role. On my own I am strong but in a relationship I tend to think of the traditional roles.

 

[Porsche19]

Re: Spin off # 2: Is our strength our weakness when it comes to relationships??

I don't like stereotypes of any kind. Even when they are positive. Example, someone is smart because they are Asian... or a black woman is stronger than other races of women.

I don't beleive that black women are stronger than any other type of women. Women (of all colors!) have to deal with the BS of men (of all colors!). And it is the same type of BS from every type of man all around the globe that we have to deal with.


Stereoptypes get on my nerves because the small amount of truth behind what sparks it (this one was probably created because a lot of black women are single mothers and don't have as much money as the average white woman) is lost in a sea of... simplistic generalizations and it applies to millions of people!

The fact that most people believe in them is sad. Do people not have brains? Are they not aware of what sterotyping truly is? There is no concrete rule about what a person is like or how the behave, a "weak" black woman is not an exception to the rule because there is no rule.

 

[katie]

3a. Within races: Black men tend to most ardently pursue lighter-skinned, longer-haired black women (e.g., Spike Lee's School Daze). Yet black women today do not generally prefer fairer men.

I've always found it interesting how in the US,dark skinned black men are sought after by black women more heavily than the light skinned ones. You know how people talk about "sexy chocolate men" etc.
I can think of many majority black countries where the lighter skinned black fellas are seen as much more of a hot commodity. Some people may like dark skinned males,but as a general rule, most people I know only like red fellas. One of my friends is going out with a chocolate complexioned fella and she was really unattracted to him for a long time because he is dark. He's good looking though, but it's hard for lots of girls to see past dark skin

 

[Porsche19]

I am American and I know of girls who want the lighter men. Not eveyone goes for the chocloate man thing.

 

[katie]

I am American and I know of girls who want the lighter men. Not eveyone goes for the chocloate man thing.

Oh ok. I got the impression that as a general rule, dark skinned black men in the US were seen as more attractive. Of course there are exceptions to every rule.

 

[Porsche19]

There are no rules regarding things of this nature.

Stereotypes = not a rule

 

[locabouthair]

Personally I love dark skinned guys.

 

[LDebagoria]

What pisses me off the sterotype of us having this so-called attitude. More often than not, Black women are depicted as this attitude-having, neck snappin' creature in the media. So, of course, ALL Black women MUST be like this right? WTF!!!
I think this depiction makes us look WAY more unapproachable than we really are, and to those who aren't exposed to us and only see Black women on t.v. and newspapers are SO suprised when I speak properly and don't have this chip-on-my-shoulder attiude! What do y'all think?

 

[Poohbear]

Felt less feminine with short hair ... To a certain extent but not really. Just hated having short hair when I cut it back in 2003.

Envied another race because of their long hair... No, I just want long hair because I think it's beautiful, not because of some other race. That's not good to envy another race of long hair because not all other races keeps their hair long and we should be blessed to be made with the genes that God gave us when he made us whether they are fast-hair-growing genes or slow-hair-growing genes.

Told a man you didn't need him... Yes because it was a guy that was immature and one guy that needed to get his priorities straight.

Considered needing a man as a sign of weakness... No, I'm a strong young woman whether I have a man or not.

Thought there was really a man shortage... Somewhat, mainly because there are more women in the world than men... I dunno.

Played down your strength to get/keep a man... Never, I'm always myself when it comes to men. Plus, why try to change yourself or make yourself weak for a guy that's not into you? Just let him go if he's not interested or doesn't wanna be with you.

Felt a man passed you by because you were too independent... Yes but I never felt it was my loss, it was more like his loss.

 

[Neen]

~Felt less feminine with short hair
~Told a man you didnt need him
~Considered needing a man as a sign of weakness
~Thought that there is really a "man shortage"
~Played down your strengths to get/keep a man

I picked all of these.

 

[Enchantmt]

I think a lot of times we have ideas and perceptions that we have grown up with and never questioned, just accepted as truth. I think that when we realize that we do/think/believe something, we can examine it, decide if its true or not, decide if it is benefiting us or holding us back, and then keep it or toss it accordingly. Things dont always have to be a certain way for us because "thats how its always been". We can grow and learn and change.

 

[blkbeauty]

I've always found it interesting how in the US,dark skinned black men are sought after by black women more heavily than the light skinned ones. You know how people talk about "sexy chocolate men" etc.
I can think of many majority black countries where the lighter skinned black fellas are seen as much more of a hot commodity. Some people may like dark skinned males,but as a general rule, most people I know only like red fellas. One of my friends is going out with a chocolate complexioned fella and she was really unattracted to him for a long time because he is dark. He's good looking though, but it's hard for lots of girls to see past dark skin

ITA. Infact on a personal level, I have dated guys who were darker than me to bi-racial to white. But I think in the media, magazines and video we see many lightskin women and darkskin men desired. And I also feel that darker women are more desired that what that media portrays. From my school days High School and College) it was the darker skin girls that were getting numbers. But if you live your life through the telescope of what media projects then you will believe that Black women are angry and the darker they are the angrier they are and Black men are sex crazed animals on the hunt for Ms. White.

 

[Porsche19]

I didn't even answer those question thingies...

Felt less feminine with short hair - yes. Long hair is considered to be more feminine. Now, do I not feel feminine at all? No! But I feel that I would look more feminine with longer hair.

Envied another race because of their long hair- no. I've envied other women for their long hair, but the envy is not fueled by race.

Told a man you didnt need him- yes. If a man isn't treating you right, you don't need him.

Considered needing a man as a sign of weakness - unsure. Wanting to be in love is not a weakness. Just needing to be in a realtionship every second is, if you're one of those people who wil date anyone so that you don't have to be alone... it's kinda pathetic.

Thought that there is really a "man shortage" - unsure. There are plenty of men out there, but I feel as there is a shortage of intelligent, nice men and an abundance of dog type men out there. Regardless of color.

Played down your strengths to get/keep a man - no. any man who I would date likes that I have strengths. I'm not into chauvanists. Women are not supposed to be talentless and unable to surpass a man in anything excluding cooking and cleaning.

Felt a man passed you by because you were too independent - no.

 

[MizAvalon]

I know that some have indicated the contents of the article do not hold a lot of water, but how many have said that black men only date white women because they let them walk all over them...so is the reverse true...are they not dating black women because we dont put up with foolishness or stroke their ego?

I'm sorry, but out of all the stereotypes there are, this is definitely one the funniest and MOST untrue. Black women not putting up with black men's foolishness or stroking their egos?

How many of us know black woman or have even been that black woman that has taken back a cheating man, accepted his out of wedlock child with another woman, supported a lazy man that wouldn't work or go to school, sat home waiting for some jailbird to be released, even tolerated verbal or physical abuse? The list goes on and on.

Black women not tolerating nonsense from black men? YEAH RIGHT. The women who put up with the most crap from black men ARE black women for a myriad of reasons.

 

[Honeyhips]

I was thinking about the women in my Church yesterday and how they are so on point. They not only defy these stereotypes the surpass them. You wouldn't think of these stereotypes when it came to them. I wish I could feed live video of them to the world. They are all black women to. They are the epitome of success, and feminity. The ones who are married stroke their husbands egos but at the same time these black men CHERISH their black women. They have long hair to extremely short hair.
I don't know what I'm trying to say but people have got to change their perspective.

 

[Jewell]

I don't put up with a black man's foolishness or stroke his ego(or any type of man, for that matter), because many of them try to blame hardships for black men on the "White man," when in all actuality, if you're trifeling, you're trifeling. That's why I don't put up with stuff...life is too short for that, and I can do bad all by myself (eventhough its sounds so cliche'). I don't stroke egos because if he thinks he's so on point, and on top of the world, then he can't be with me, because I can't stand an arrogant man...many who are arrogant (overly arrogant) act like they can have any woman they want, and forget about the wife, girlfriend, or baby mama that was with his butt when he didn't have anything. No, our strength is not our weakness, because there are oh so many black men out there that can step up to the plate and aren't intimidated by a black woman's "I ain't taking no stuff from you" attitude. Just a big stereotype...

 

[Enchantmt]

I'm sorry, but out of all the stereotypes there are, this is definitely one the funniest and MOST untrue. Black women not putting up with black men's foolishness or stroking their egos?

How many of us know black woman or have even been that black woman that has taken back a cheating man, accepted his out of wedlock child with another woman, supported a lazy man that wouldn't work or go to school, sat home waiting for some jailbird to be released, even tolerated verbal or physical abuse? The list goes on and on.

Black women not tolerating nonsense from black men? YEAH RIGHT. The women who put up with the most crap from black ARE black women for a myriad of reasons.

Yeah we do put up with a lot. I agree it is a sterotype, but it is a perception that I have heard echoed on this board and in my personal life. People will always say, among other things, that a black man is dating a white woman because she is docile or easily controlled. So, just to get the thoughts going so we can examine this, is the opposite true? Are they not dating us because we are not docile and not easily controlled? You cant confront thoughts that limit you unless you know what they are. If a woman has never asked herself before does she feel less feminine with short hair, if her hair breaks off or she goes to a SHS she may be feeling bad about herself and not know why. Your short hair may look less feminine to someone else, but why would you FEEL less feminine?? I see feminine as who/what I am simply because I am a woman, not because a certain look defines me. Its my birthright. I am no more or less a woman because of a physical attribute. I know there are some women who run from looking or feeling feminine but I'm speaking in general. I think we have to challenge thoughts like these but we cant do it unless we recognize them and examine them when we have them.

 

[Enchantmt]

I was thinking about the women in my Church yesterday and how they are so on point. They not only defy these stereotypes the surpass them. You wouldn't think of these stereotypes when it came to them. I wish I could feed live video of them to the world. They are all black women to. They are the epitome of success, and feminity. The ones who are married stroke their husbands egos but at the same time these black men CHERISH their black women. They have long hair to extremely short hair.
I don't know what I'm trying to say but people have got to change their perspective.

Thats the way it should be!! A two way street. One of equal admiration and respect, where we cherish and serve each other, not the master/slave mess.

 

[tryn2growmyhair]

What pisses me off the sterotype of us having this so-called attitude. More often than not, Black women are depicted as this attitude-having, neck snappin' creature in the media. So, of course, ALL Black women MUST be like this right? WTF!!!
I think this depiction makes us look WAY more unapproachable than we really are, and to those who aren't exposed to us and only see Black women on t.v. and newspapers are SO suprised when I speak properly and don't have this chip-on-my-shoulder attiude! What do y'all think?

I think that unfortunately, there is this stereotype but, unfortunately, some black women do fit this stereotype. I see this every day. They will try to play chicken with you when you are walking down the street and I have seen them argue with people for the littlest thing or they will be obstinate. These women frighten men, because even if they don't argue with the man, it is a turnoff to be with someone who is ALWAYS right. Today I was waiting for the bus. There was a long line. One of the few people who was aggressively pushing to the front of the line and trying to skip people was a black woman. You think that people do not take not of this?

I think that some black men are genuinely turned off by this and look for woman who appear less agressive and go for women of other races. I write appear because we all know that the person you date and the person you marry are sometimes two different people.

Other black men simply are not interested in black women and use this as an excuse.

Either way, these stereotypes and the black women who fit these stereotypes hurt all black women, because in the end, we are typecast by the media, many members of the general public and even some black men.

 

[brownhaired_bonanza]

What pisses me off the sterotype of us having this so-called attitude. More often than not, Black women are depicted as this attitude-having, neck snappin' creature in the media. So, of course, ALL Black women MUST be like this right? WTF!!!
I think this depiction makes us look WAY more unapproachable than we really are, and to those who aren't exposed to us and only see Black women on t.v. and newspapers are SO suprised when I speak properly and don't have this chip-on-my-shoulder attiude! What do y'all think?

I agree. I've gotten plenty of stares because of the way i speak- one of my co-workers siad that I must have gone to college because of the way I talk. It's sad, but i've gotten quite used to that comment.

 

[notsomebody]

UGGH! I am so sick of articles and essays blaming black women for freaking EVERYTHING. It's our fault if black men date white women. It's our fault if black men are gay and particapate in gay lifestyle. It's our fault we aren't getting married.

When are other people going to stand up take responsibility for their OWN actions. Maybe just maybe, the guy is dating a white woman because that is simply what he is attracted to (FOR WHATEVER REASON). Maybe just maybe the guy was gay long before he got married and was only using the wife as a cover. Maybe just maybe, there are fewer men in this country period than women.

WHY WHY do we have to continuously find ways to blame our selves for crap that has very little and in most case ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with us? WHY?

Sorry, for the rant, but this is really getting on my nerves.

 

[Poohbear]

Either way, these stereotypes and the black women who fit these stereotypes hurt all black women, because in the end, we are typecast by the media, many members of the general public and even some black men.

Well it doesn't hurt me!!! A black women that fits a certain stereotype doesn't represent me!!! No NO no!!! Who cares what the media and general public forecasts... I'm an individual who does not allow myself to be bounded by these stereotypes we are suppose to fit into!!!

 

[CatSuga]

Personally...........if I'm too strong, too independant, too intelligent, and too motivated about life for a man, then that means he is not a man, just some weakling [CENSORED].

 

[asha]

What pisses me off the sterotype of us having this so-called attitude. More often than not, Black women are depicted as this attitude-having, neck snappin' creature in the media. So, of course, ALL Black women MUST be like this right? WTF!!!
I think this depiction makes us look WAY more unapproachable than we really are, and to those who aren't exposed to us and only see Black women on t.v. and newspapers are SO suprised when I speak properly and don't have this chip-on-my-shoulder attiude! What do y'all think? QUOTE]


Well the sad thing is it is not just those that are not exposed to us. A few years ago my boyfriend (who is white) and I went to the carribean. We were at the club one night and some guys (black) were asking my boyfriend if he wanted to try some "good jamaican weed". I stepped up and said no we are not into that thing. One guy steps right in front of me and says to my boyfriend..."becareful what you are getting into, those black women are like that. They speak when they shouldn't and get involved in **** they know nothing about"

To say the least, those black men living on a carribean island are exposed to black women everyday. But this is not the first time I have had that kind of experience or seen that kind of treatment of black women from black men themselves.

 

[esoterica]

i think the term "strong back woman" is stupid because it tries to correlate two things that are not necessarily related. any woman can be strong. and we've all seen what happens to women who aren't. they get walked all over and treated like

insecure men despise secure women half the time, and want to be with them the other half. so if they need to go off and find someone thats gonna love them "long time" i say let them go. a lot of men have no balls.

as for the loud-mouthed classless chip-on-the-shoulder BW, they do exist, and unfortunately they have just made it a hell of a lot harder for the rest of us! i think in reality, this is what the Strong BW really refers to.

 

[imstush]

I just read an email/article from this guy who said interracial dating should be blamed on the black woman. He also stated that because of "our" attitudes the black man doesn't want to be bothered so he goes to the white woman. So the white man has no choice but to go to the asian woman...so that puts the asian man at a disadvantage because of the black woman. what a crock of . Unfortunately, which I will never understand how we get stuck with the stereotypes....black woman have nasty attitudes, blah blah...

 

[Zakina]

I actually believe that GENERALLY black women are more masculine than other races....

 

[lexi08]

I actually believe that GENERALLY black women are more masculine than other races....

Hi Zakina, Would you mind sharing why you feel this way? Over the years, I have had a few men tell me that they feel some black women are not feminine enough.