Interracial Dating or Marriage

[sky_blu]

I'm cool with it! Besides my Sweet chocolate Brothers, I like Latino men! That's just my personal Prefrence!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I've never been into white guys though! Ah well!

Same here. But I thought it was just me

 

[rozlips]

So for you to suggest white male-black female relationships could "undermine" this mindset is naive. It could easily perpetuate it if that black female believed she was 'upgrading' for the sake of her future offspring and to better her status by marriage into a superior race. I don't doubt for one minute that this occurs -- and frequently -- and with pride But it appears you're equating white supremacy (which involves whites thinking they are the master race) with my theory of a widespread white superiority myth (which involves all races believing whites are the ideal).

No, actually I'm not naive at all. I'm a pragmatist. Let's look at the hierarchy within a white supremacist patriarchy which is what we have in this country. I think we would all agree that the hierarchy is thusly; white men, white women, black men, black women. I think we'd also agree that one of the central tenets of white supremacy is the superiority of the white female over all other females in terms of beauty and attractiveness. If the white male, who is at the top of the hierarchy chooses to marry a black female who is at the bottom, does it not undermine the notion of white superiority? How does a black woman doing what she's 'supposed' to do, ie being with black men and only with black men, in any way undermine white superiority? Within this socio-economic framework, the choices of a black woman will never have more impact than the choices of a white man. So, it would seem to me that the one who is naive in this conversation is you.

Please note, in no way am I suggesting that one should choose a white male partner because of political beliefs. Indeed, I'm of the opinion that politics have no place in a romantic relationship. I'm simply pointing out that the notion of black women staying with blacks is not necessarily the blow to white supremacy that some have alleged. Personally I think having a preference for black men is all well and good, but this idea that this choice somehow has impact beyond your own personal lives is a bit misleading. Your choice of mate should be based on who you are and who he is, not on how others will perceive it. As I've said, those who have that much interest in what others think are probably better off not IRing anyway.

 

[yourleoqueen]

Re: I definitely prefer black men

I'm not discussing whether all whites are supremacists. I'm not saying that I won't date a white person because he feels he's better than blacks.

You've misunderstood the white superiority comments.

Esteeming whites as superior is a social condition, it's a social mind-set that goes beyond individual white people ...and frankly I refuse to feed into it. You see hints of it in magazines, product availability (flesh band-aids, flesh stockings, makeup shades), and on and on. You see hints of this social brainwashing in people with intra-racial color prejudice who only date light. I know some from older generations who brag about their grandchildren having white blood. I know some people who love to brag about having white friends...or dating white.

My apprehension isn't simply that whites think themselves superior but that the rest of society believes it and strives to crossover into a perceived Promised Land by marrying or dating white. (as if that gives them a stamp of approval by the cream of the crop)

So for you to suggest white male-black female relationships could "undermine" this mindset is naive. It could easily perpetuate it if that black female believed she was 'upgrading' for the sake of her future offspring and to better her status by marriage into a superior race. I don't doubt for one minute that this occurs -- and frequently -- and with pride But it appears you're equating white supremacy (which involves whites thinking they are the master race) with my theory of a widespread white superiority myth (which involves all races believing whites are the ideal).


Anyway...I'm an advocate of humanity. I think people of all hues and backgrounds should intermingle without regard for race, which is an exaggerated concept. But marriage and dating are different. When I am choosing one partner who will walk with me for the rest of my life, who I choose and who I reject sends a multitude of messages and underscores my philosophies.

No, actually I'm not naive at all. I'm a pragmatist. Let's look at the hierarchy within a white supremacist patriarchy which is what we have in this country. I think we would all agree that the hierarchy is thusly; white men, white women, black men, black women. I think we'd also agree that one of the central tenets of white supremacy is the superiority of the white female over all other females in terms of beauty and attractiveness. If the white male, who is at the top of the hierarchy chooses to marry a black female who is at the bottom, does it not undermine the notion of white superiority? How does a black woman doing what she's 'supposed' to do, ie being with black men and only with black men, in any way undermine white superiority? Within this socio-economic framework, the choices of a black woman will never have more impact than the choices of a white man. So, it would seem to me that the one who is naive in this conversation is you.

Please note, in no way am I suggesting that one should choose a white male partner because of political beliefs. Indeed, I'm of the opinion that politics have no place in a romantic relationship. I'm simply pointing out that the notion of black women staying with blacks is not necessarily the blow to white supremacy that some have alleged. Personally I think having a preference for black men is all well and good, but this idea that this choice somehow has impact beyond your own personal lives is a bit misleading. Your choice of mate should be based on who you are and who he is, not on how others will perceive it. As I've said, those who have that much interest in what others think are probably better off not IRing anyway.

OKAY! I have nothing to add as to the original topic that hasn't been said, I just wanted to say that with the exception of that one bit of childishness (calling each other naive, SHAME to the both of ya!) this was an excellent read! Very well thought out from both sides.

Black women with big brains representing up in this mug! Intelligence is indeed beautiful!

CARRY ON!

 

[CurliDiva]

No, actually I'm not naive at all. I'm a pragmatist. Let's look at the hierarchy within a white supremacist patriarchy which is what we have in this country. I think we would all agree that the hierarchy is thusly; white men, white women, black men, black women. I think we'd also agree that one of the central tenets of white supremacy is the superiority of the white female over all other females in terms of beauty and attractiveness. If the white male, who is at the top of the hierarchy chooses to marry a black female who is at the bottom, does it not undermine the notion of white superiority? How does a black woman doing what she's 'supposed' to do, ie being with black men and only with black men, in any way undermine white superiority? Within this socio-economic framework, the choices of a black woman will never have more impact than the choices of a white man. So, it would seem to me that the one who is naive in this conversation is you.

Please note, in no way am I suggesting that one should choose a white male partner because of political beliefs. Indeed, I'm of the opinion that politics have no place in a romantic relationship. I'm simply pointing out that the notion of black women staying with blacks is not necessarily the blow to white supremacy that some have alleged. Personally I think having a preference for black men is all well and good, but this idea that this choice somehow has impact beyond your own personal lives is a bit misleading. Your choice of mate should be based on who you are and who he is, not on how others will perceive it. As I've said, those who have that much interest in what others think are probably better off not IRing anyway.

I think Black women having choice (collective, real freedom of choice) from a wide pool of men of different races, religions, and classes for marriage partners is still a relatively new phenomenon in American history.

I talking about marriage versus dating or sex, because we have always been available to white men sexually since this country began.

This world (and country) is made up of more than black and white people. Where do Hispanics, Asians, Indians, and other non-white people fit into your view of this American hierarchy?

People have chosen (or had chosen for them) marriage partners based on things such as race, religion, social class, geography, or economic resources for centuries-- by family, religious traditions or by laws such as in this country.

As American has been totally integrated, interracial relationships have flourish. I agree that Love is colorblind, but before LOVE we make choices to get to that point. And from the previous posts, people still use choices based on various things other than one-on-one with a potential partner.

 

[Synthia]

No, actually I'm not naive at all. I'm a pragmatist. Let's look at the hierarchy within a white supremacist patriarchy which is what we have in this country. I think we would all agree that the hierarchy is thusly; white men, white women, black men, black women. I think we'd also agree that one of the central tenets of white supremacy is the superiority of the white female over all other females in terms of beauty and attractiveness. If the white male, who is at the top of the hierarchy chooses to marry a black female who is at the bottom, does it not undermine the notion of white superiority? How does a black woman doing what she's 'supposed' to do, ie being with black men and only with black men, in any way undermine white superiority? Within this socio-economic framework, the choices of a black woman will never have more impact than the choices of a white man. So, it would seem to me that the one who is naive in this conversation is you.

Please note, in no way am I suggesting that one should choose a white male partner because of political beliefs. Indeed, I'm of the opinion that politics have no place in a romantic relationship. I'm simply pointing out that the notion of black women staying with blacks is not necessarily the blow to white supremacy that some have alleged. Personally I think having a preference for black men is all well and good, but this idea that this choice somehow has impact beyond your own personal lives is a bit misleading. Your choice of mate should be based on who you are and who he is, not on how others will perceive it. As I've said, those who have that much interest in what others think are probably better off not IRing anyway.

Yes, in the hierarchy you've referenced it is impossible for a black women at the bottom of a power structure, to transcend her rank and achieve power or impact that will be seen as equal to that possessed by white males if she marries black.

But is this hierarchy valid, meaningful, or just? If not, then why are we judging a black woman according to it?

This is the flaw in your logic. For it requires that I judge a black woman's power from "within the socio-economic framework" of a "white supremacist patriarchy," ,as you yourself stated when setting up the premise of your debate.

If I believe black men, white men, black women, and white women are intrinsically of equal value...then there's no failure or setback in a black woman marrying black.

I reject your premise. I reject white superiority and black inferiority as real and true -- and marrying black (when I do marry) will show that I don't give a da*mn about how I rank or acquire power along some imaginary hierarchy.

But you may say, how can you reject the hierarchy when the American society is shaped by it (and there is concrete evidence that it still is!). A 'pragmatist' like yourself might argue, if the hierarchy is existent why not work within it for change instead of pretending it's not real.

But I say whatever inequalities in society or economics that exist and keep the white man ranked first and black woman last (like wage disparity, etc) ...they exist because people's psyches have allowed it and people are deluded.

Delusions should not be catered to or allowed to stand unchallenged. They should be overthrown -- like Nazism, apartheid, Jim Crow laws, slavery, the Medieval caste system.

Do you think the oppressed or lowest ranked in any of the above systems would have gained anything by judging themselves according to the patriarchy and social constructs of the day? Or by trying to progress within those social constructs and the rules/principles of those unjust constructs?

Blacks marrying blacks is a blow to the notion of white superiority. It says here are two blacks who don't believe they are inferior and should race climb. It's a psychological blow that can't be measured in socio-economic power.

And it can be socially transforming if widely practiced enough-- as was the 'Black is Beautiful' movement of the 1970's. They rejected the patriarchy and dominant culture and for a while it was a beautiful thing. Afros and dashikis everywhere. No more light skin preference and paper bag tests; all shades were welcomed. And instead of losing power, blacks were more respected. And it wasn't a separatist movement either. Whites were right there among them doing curly perms and solidifying. Even entertainers used their platforms to contribute to a new psychology with songs like "I'm Black and I'm Proud" et cetera. I'd love a movement like that now. I was just a baby during the 70s.

Lastly, when I marry black ..I won't be doing something I'm 'supposed to do' as you say -- because again I don't believe in the hierarchy. And I won't be making a decision compelled by what others think, but by what I think.

I will be choosing what is pleasing and fulfilling to me (as is evidenced by the seven fullfillments of marrying black that I stated in my first post). That's first and foremost ...and on top of that yes I will be sending a message to the world that I hope will effect change even if in one person in my small social circle. We can change the world with our personal choices to marry one another...just like some black stars shaped social consciousness in reverse by choosing white women ... Wesley saying he won't date black women or Charles Barkely saying black women are unclean.

They of course are famous, but the principle is the same.

[Just a reminder: I am speaking of a choosing a mate ...not wider social interactions. I don't believe blacks should only socialize with blacks or be friends with blacks, etc. I'm very much against that. I'm not even saying all blacks should marry blacks. I am saying I will. And I have a strong philosophy behind it]

 

[imstush]

I have always been attracted to white men. Have I ever dated one, no. I have had a couple come on to me years ago. So obviously I have no problem dating a white male (that's based solely on attraction). Not to mention I am quite sick of hearing numerous black men tell me, I am too intimidating, and the best one of all...because of my looks and my shape, I will always be that trophy as opposed to someone's wife! WTF!

 

[JamericanGurl]

Re: I definitely prefer black men

I dated a white young man once. We had incredible conversations about literature, philosophy, and culture that stand unmatched to this day.

But as much as I enjoyed him, something was missing. The connection was incomplete. I eventually told him I preferred to date black men.

I hope he didn't feel that was racist. I stand by my preference to this day.

Here are my 7 reasons why:

1. The myth that white is superior and black is inferior still exists. I don't want to participate in any choice that would endorse that. I don't want to signal to the world (or myself) that if given a choice, I'd prefer white. That I would prefer "other" over what I am.

2. I believe black men have a stronger masculinity. They have endured a lot and have an edge. I prefer a raw, strong expression of manhood (and I'm NOT talking about thugs.)

3. Society demonizes black men. Sees them as criminals, dumbasses and dead-beats. I want to support and nurture a good strong black man in a society that tears him down.

4. Aesthetics. I personally am mesmerized by shades of brown skin and find the millions of hues intriguing and beautiful. I like myself and my beauty so by extension I'm naturally attracted to my attributes in others. I can appreciate a different brand of beauty but I think its natural for people to love what they are ...that's why you'll see people who choose mates who look a lot like them/match them.


5. Prejudice and racism still exist. Maybe not in social constructs, but in the psyches of people. Notice that when you spy someone recoiling, regarding with suspicion, looking away, ignoring, or crossing the street when blacks approach. Race is not my point of reference for living. I wish I lived in a world where it wasn't an issue. But until that happens, if something occurs and I need comforting (or he does) I want to go home to someone who instantly relates and can understand where I'm coming from.

6. I like the familiarity of being with someone of like culture. We can recite Countee Cullen and Maya Angelou to each other and have it deeply resonate. If I quote some obscure passage from The Colored Museum or a speech by Huey Newton or Malcolm X, he gets it-- in his soul -- without explanation. And that's kewl to me. It's beautiful. I love it and want that.

7.Lastly, I am first and foremost an individual. However, I descend from a line of black ancestors who were devalued and stripped of their dignity in this country. They were ridiculed, turned into beasts of labor, sold by the dozens, taught to hate their Negro features and despise their skin color. Let my living say that I will not run from my blackness but that I will embrace it and defy all those who tried to malign it.

I hope no one thinks I'm saying this with a racist heart.

I enjoyed reading this!

 

[JamericanGurl]

Yes, in the hierarchy you've referenced it is impossible for a black women at the bottom of a power structure, to transcend her rank and achieve power or impact that will be seen as equal to that possessed by white males if she marries black.

But is this hierarchy valid, meaningful, or just? If not, then why are we judging a black woman according to it?

This is the flaw in your logic. For it requires that I judge a black woman's power from "within the socio-economic framework" of a "white supremacist patriarchy," ,as you yourself stated when setting up the premise of your debate.

If I believe black men, white men, black women, and white women are intrinsically of equal value...then there's no failure or setback in a black woman marrying black.

I reject your premise. I reject white superiority and black inferiority as real and true -- and marrying black (when I do marry) will show that I don't give a da*mn about how I rank or acquire power along some imaginary hierarchy.

But you may say, how can you reject the hierarchy when the American society is shaped by it (and there is concrete evidence that it still is!). A 'pragmatist' like yourself might argue, if the hierarchy is existent why not work within it for change instead of pretending it's not real.

But I say whatever inequalities in society or economics that exist and keep the white man ranked first and black woman last (like wage disparity, etc) ...they exist because people's psyches have allowed it and people are deluded.

Delusions should not be allowed to stand unchallenged. They should be overthrown -- like Nazism, apartheid, Jim Crow laws, slavery, the Medieval caste system.

Do you think the oppressed or lowest ranked in any of the above systems would have gained anything by judging themselves according to the patriarchy and social constructs of the day? Or by trying to progress within those social constructs and the rules/principles of those unjust constructs?

Blacks marrying blacks is a blow to the notion of white superiority. It says here are two blacks who don't believe they are inferior and should race climb. It's a psychologically blow that can't be measured in socio-economic power.

And it can be socially transforming if widely practiced enough-- as was of the black is beautiful movement of the 1970's. They rejected the patriarchy and dominant culture and for a while it was a beautiful thing. Afros and dashikis everywhere. No more light skin preference and paper bag tests; all shades were welcomed. And instead of losing power, blacks were more respected. And it wasn't a separatist movement either. Whites were right there among them doing curly perms and solidifying. Even entertainers used their platforms to contribute to a new psychology with songs like "I'm Black and I'm Proud" et cetera. I'd love a movement like that now. I was just a baby during the 70s.

Lastly, when I marry black ..I won't be doing something I'm 'supposed to do' as you say -- because again I don't believe in the hierarchy. And I won't be making a decision compelled by what others think, but by what I think.

I will be choosing what is pleasing and fulfilling to me (as is evidenced by the seven fullfillments of marrying black that I stated in my first post). That's first and foremost ...and on top of that yes I will be sending a message to the world that I hope will effect change even if in one person in my small social circle. We can change the world with our personal choices to marry one another...just like some black stars shaped social consciousness in reverse by choosing white women ... Wesley saying he won't date black women or Charles Barkely saying black women are unclean.

They of course are famous, but the principle is the same.

[Just a reminder: I am speaking of a choosing a mate ...not wider social interactions. I don't believe blacks should only socialize with blacks or be friends with blacks, etc. I'm very much against that. I'm not even saying all blacks should marry blacks. I am saying I will. And I have a strong philosophy behind it]

And this too!!!

 

[Crystalicequeen123]

Re: I definitely prefer black men

1. The myth that white is superior and black is inferior still exists. I don't want to participate in any choice that would endorse that. I don't want to signal to the world (or myself) that if given a choice, I'd prefer white. That I would prefer "other" over what I am.

Hmmm...that's interesting. I never really thought of it this way.

When I see interracial couples in my area (and I do see quite a lot) and it's a white male with a black female, I don't ever get the impression that "oh, she just chose him because she thinks 'white is better' and so she's just trying to 'upgrade' to something better". NO WAY! I never think that at all! If so, then what is HE doing with her?? Obviously he isn't "upgrading" if we use this same reasoning. Maybe I'm the minority in feeling this way, but when I see an interracial couple together I just feel like: "oh, how nice! They obviously must love each other since they have the courage to come out with their relationship when society/family members probably (at least in this country anyway) look down upon it." I mean, honestly it doesn't matter to me. Sometimes you just "click" with someone.

To be able to go out in public as a couple and avoid stares, and who knows..maybe even subtle racism in restaurants or shopping centers or whatever is really commendable IMO. I can't imagine how it would be for me. I haven't dated interracially, but then again I haven't dated much at all...so, maybe I'm making the wrong assumption. Maybe things aren't that bad. I think it's pretty obvious that I wouldn't be adverse to the idea of dating someone of another race however.

But anyway...I DO respect preferences. Some people have a preference for tall men. Some have a preference for people of their same gender. In other words, noone should be made to feel bad (black OR white) or "racist" if they simply have a preference for their own race, or even people of other races. JMHO.

 

[Chivara]

Re: I definitely prefer black men

I doubt there are very many people on this planet that deny white supremacy exists. Some of us simply understand that all whites aren't white supremacists and take the issue on an individual basis. Personally, I believe that within this white supremacist patriarchy white male/black female relationships tend to undermine white supremacy. But each to their own.



Nope, doesn't make you a racist. I don't understand why you cared what perfect strangers thought, but that probably makes you overly invested in the views of others, not a racist. IMHO folks who care what others think are better off not IRing. As I said in another forum, the first rule of successful IR dating is the ability to say fcuk you to others and mean it.

On no, I'm better off not IRing dating not b/c I care what other people think, but b/c I have absolutely no interest in white men. That's all. And for me, to do so would be an embarassment to myself, forget what others think.

But I do indeed believe that everyone is entitled to their preferences, and would not judge anyone for what their preferences were. IRing is just not for me.

 

[Synthia]

Thank you JamericanGurl You're very sweet to say that.


And CurliDiva, I'm glad you rebuked me for the 'naive' critique. I was ashamed of it myself as I read over both posts to plot my rebuttal . I hate when a good debate descends to lowly behavior.

(I guess you won't like that used da*mn in the second post then. . It was only for emphasis )

Roz is enjoyable to spar with. She's really getting me impassioned.

 

[rozlips]

But is this hierarchy valid, meaningful, or just? If not, then why are we judging a black woman according to it?

Never said it was valid, meaningful or just. Said it was reality, after all, I am a pragmatist.

If I believe black men, white men, black women, and white women are intrinsically of equal value...then there's no failure or setback in a black woman marrying black.

If you believe that all have the same value, then why do you believe that choosing a black man has more value? How is choosing a black man defying white superiority if you don't believe in white superiority? That's my whole point; men are men (women are women), therefore choosing one race or another based on politics is moot.

I reject your premise. I reject white superiority and black inferiority as real and true -- and marrying black (when I do marry) will show that I don't give a da*mn about how I rank or acquire power along some imaginary hierarchy.

Actually, it will show that you play along with the hierarchy. In order to supposedly defy white superiority you have to acknowledge that it exists. Its only by choosing your mate on merit and merit alone that you defy white supremacy.

Blacks marrying blacks is a blow to the notion of white superiority. It says here are two blacks who don't believe they are inferior and should race climb. It's a psychological blow that can't be measured in socio-economic power.

Nope, it says that you believe whites are superior and therefore you are defying their superiority by choosing a black partner. Defying and denying the existence of white superiority requires choice of mate on merit alone.

[/b] They rejected the patriarchy and dominant culture and for a while it was a beautiful thing. Afros and dashikis everywhere. No more light skin preference and paper bag tests; all shades were welcomed. And instead of losing power, blacks were more respected.

How old are you? I can assure you that patriarchy was alive and well during the Black Power movement. You might want to read some books by the women who were a part of that movement. Some of them are stomach churning. You might want to start with Eldridge Cleaver and his statement that he raped black women to practice for the ultimate prize; white women. Or Stokely Carmichael's assertion that the only place for women in the movement was prone. Not a pretty picture at all.

 

[Synthia]

Roz, this last superficial post is not thought out enough for me to rebut.

You break my statements into tidbits, destroy context, twist words, and feign not to understand subtleties and distinctions. Then you ask how old I am and suggest I think patriarchy disappeared during the Black is Beautiful movement.

If you don't want to debate any further, just say so. But don't bring this weak game.

Please note how carefuly I handled your words and responded.

 

[rozlips]

I don't think my rebuttal was weak at all. You stated that blacks rejected patriarchy during the BP movement, I merely pointed out to you that the statement is far from the truth. I asked your age because its typical of the younger generation to romanticize that era. Those of us who are closer to those times are more than aware of the rampant sexism that existed during then, and I gave you two amongst many to demonstrate it. Far from rejecting patriarchy and colorism it was rampant throughout the movement.

What subtleties and distinctions did I feign not to understand? It seems to me that you want to have it both ways. Either you white superiority exists or it doesn't. If it does exist then it is within the framework of the hiearcharchy that I posted. That being the case, dating/mating IR is as valid a means to reject that superiority as dating MR is. As a bonus it gives black women a significantly larger dating pool from which to choose. Essentially your argument maintains the status quo. After all, black women have been choosing to date/mate monoracially since we came to this country. It would appear to me that this means of rebelling hasn't exactly been in our best interests. Pragmatist that I am, I think that when something's not working for you, its time to try something new.

 

[mkstar826]

Actually, it will show that you play along with the hierarchy. In order to supposedly defy white superiority you have to acknowledge that it exists. Its only by choosing your mate on merit and merit alone that you defy white supremacy.

ITA............

 

[Synthia]

Roz I'm quite aware of the sexism prevalent in the Black Panther movement and other movements of that era. That's not the discussion we're having. I mentioned one aspect of the movement ... if we're going to have a discussion about the Black is Beautiful movement and all its ills and benefits ...that's another whole debate.


I selectively used one aspect of the movement to counter a point you made about what happens when blackswomen stay with their own race. My point was clear.

I regret I complimented you as a debater ...because now reading these tangents ...sloppy reasoning ... and your suggestions that I want it both ways. I've changed my mind.

Example: You say: If you believe that all have the same value, then why do you believe that choosing a black man has more value? I never said that. I can have a preference for black men and still believe all people have equal value. When it comes to marriage, I also prefer men to women ...but does that men I think men have more value? Ridiculous. That you would skew my words is poor debating.

Another Example: You said 'How is choosing a black man defying white superiority if you don't believe in white superiority?'

White superiority in the first reference is refering to "the myth that whites are superior" I believe that myth exists. But in the second reference the same term is used to mean "truth that whites are superior." Which I don't believe.

I said I don't believe whites are superior. Fact. I said people delude themselves and believe whites are superior and I will resist that myth. There's no contradiction -- unless you sloppily quote and interpret.

I could go on and on about how you twist statements just enough to miss the subtlety of them. But I won't.

If your analysis was fair, I'd debate it.

But I'm done. I'll waiting for the next logical debater.

 

[Synthia]

ITA............

Go through the full context of the discussion and see if that statement even makes sense as a response to what was said. Just because something sounds good, doesn't mean it's a logical response. Break down the concepts and analyze.

 

[Arcadian]

I explained my family background in another thread, which I guess leads me to be how I am. MHO is I don't care if my man is BLUE with yellow polka dots as long as he's decent, intellent, treats me well and turns me on. I grew up around a multitude of cultures and the attitude I have about relationships has carried forward into my adult life.

My boyfriend and I have been together almost 5 years (5 years on December 6) and we met though email. In that time we've had our ups and downs and strangely enough, not one of them about race. We're the same where it really counts the most. My parents like him a lot and I adore his father. I get along very well with his siblings too.

Even before him I would not get asked out by black men. I went on a few dates with a Japanese guy even, but, not black men ever. Why is a good question, because I've never been opposed to it, but it never happend.


-A

 

[Jewell]

I say yay/indifferent. It does not matter to me. Personally I would not discriminate against dating a man from another race/nationality. I don't know about religion differences though (whole 'nother ball of wax). I am a believer of Christ so my ideas and a Muslim's ideas will not agree. That would be a large determinant of dating someone else of another race/nationality. I will not deny Christ for the sake of someone else's feelings.

 

[Crystalicequeen123]

I explained my family background in another thread, which I guess leads me to be how I am. MHO is I don't care if my man is BLUE with yellow polka dots as long as he's decent, intellent, treats me well and turns me on. I grew up around a multitude of cultures and the attitude I have about relationships has carried forward into my adult life.-A

I totally agree!

 

[Crystalicequeen123]

Never said it was valid, meaningful or just. Said it was reality, after all, I am a pragmatist.


If you believe that all have the same value, then why do you believe that choosing a black man has more value? How is choosing a black man defying white superiority if you don't believe in white superiority? That's my whole point; men are men (women are women), therefore choosing one race or another based on politics is moot.

Good point!

Personally, I could care LESS what color or race/culture my guy is from as long as there is an attraction, he treats me well, and he's genuinely a nice person. I try to see people on an individual basis. Afterall, I would want others to do the same to me.

But if you're simply not attracted to guys of other races, then that's fine! No problem. Just as long as it's not racism.

I personally AM attracted to guys of other races too, so IR dating doesn't bother me in the least. I'm open to it. And when I see others IR dating, it doesn't bother me. Even the black man/white woman thing doesn't bother me one bit. I couldn't care less.

 

[rozlips]

Roz I'm quite aware of the sexism prevalent in the Black Panther movement and other movements of that era. That's not the discussion we're having. I mentioned one aspect of the movement ... if we're going to have a discussion about the Black is Beautiful movement and all its ills and benefits ...that's another whole debate.

Uh, you brought it up hon, not me. Far be it for me to stand by while you make assertions based on erroneous information. Your statement was simply not true, now you want to claim that I'm the one who focused on it. Now who is it that has a problem maintaining a logical debate?

I selectively used one aspect of the movement to counter a point you made about what happens when blackswomen stay with their own race. My point was clear.

Oh yeah, clear as mud, not to mention inaccurate.

I regret I complimented you as a debater ...because now reading these tangents ...sloppy reasoning ... and your suggestions that I want it both ways. I've changed my mind.

Actually my reasoning is quite valid. You reject it because it shows that you based your entire argument on a specious basis. You stated that you choose to date/mate with black men to reject the notion of white superiority. I simply pointed out that black women IR mating/dating is a stronger rejection of same considering that the racial superiority notion gives white men higher status. You then stated that you reject racial superiority. It's clear that you don't because in your effort to reject it, you're actually embracing it. If all men are equal, then the notion of having to mate with a black man to prove that you reject the notion of racial superiority is ridiculous on its face. All it proves is that this has had such a monumental impact on you that you can't even choose a man based on his merit.

It's simply a matter of course that your manner of doing so has been tried for more than 400 years and has been found lacking. Therein lies your desire to have it both ways. Racial superiority is a perfectly legitimate reason to mate with black men, but when I point out that its also a perfectly logical reason to mate with white men, then suddenly you don't want to play into the notion of racial superiority. If the notion of racial superiority is such that its informing your mate choices, then how can you then say you reject the notion?

But I'm done. I'll waiting for the next logical debater.

Goddess help you. It seems that you cannot seem to carry on a debate without resorting to petty insults. Sad commentary on your lack of debating skills. Next!

 

[JamericanGurl]

synthia said:

7.Lastly, I am first and foremost an individual. However, I descend from a line of black ancestors who were devalued and stripped of their dignity in this country. They were ridiculed, turned into beasts of labor, sold by the dozens, taught to hate their Negro features and despise their skin color. Let my living say that I will not run from my blackness but that I will embrace it and defy all those who tried to malign it.


I agree. I don't hide my blackness. I am blacker than black. I embrace and love my culture. I respect others who do the same.

I Loved #7!!! And I'm as pasty as they come! It touched me!

 

[rozlips]

Hey y'all I think I have an explanation for all those Hasidic Jewish men hitting on y'all.

http://girlgenius.typepad.com/girlgeniuscom/2005/11/have_you_seen_t.html#comments

Yep, a Hasidic Jewish rapper. She has a link to his music on the her blog, but I haven't bothered to listen to it. But I think its hysterically funny. I've got to read up on my Judaism, but I thought they were supposed to be isolated from this type of thing, but hey, maybe I'm wrong. BTW, the GirlGenius blog is neither PC or PG, if you're offended by, well hell practically anything, don't click on this link.

 

[JamericanGurl]

Hey y'all I think I have an explanation for all those Hasidic Jewish men hitting on y'all.

http://girlgenius.typepad.com/girlgeniuscom/2005/11/have_you_seen_t.html#comments

Yep, a Hasidic Jewish rapper. She has a link to his music on the her blog, but I haven't bothered to listen to it. But I think its hysterically funny. I've got to read up on my Judaism, but I thought they were supposed to be isolated from this type of thing, but hey, maybe I'm wrong. BTW, the GirlGenius blog is neither PC or PG, if you're offended by, well hell practically anything, don't click on this link.

Didn't click the link , but if it's who I think it is ...he's really good!
Matisyahu? My friend just book him for an appearance. He's Roots Reggae. It's totally plausable....The tie in that is

 

[rozlips]

He's Roots Reggae. It's totally plausable....The tie in that is

I'm sorry, but how is it totally plausible? I thought Hasidic Jews and blacks were at odds with one another. Also, aren't Hasidic Jews forbidden to have anything to do with secular culture? Maybe I'm getting my Jews mixed up.

 

[JamericanGurl]

I'm sorry, but how is it totally plausible? I thought Hasidic Jews and blacks were at odds with one another. Also, aren't Hasidic Jews forbidden to have anything to do with secular culture? Maybe I'm getting my Jews mixed up.

The teachings or should I say the beliefs of Roots. Which was in part derived from Ethopian Judism (sp). (Plausible for me...meaning I see the connection). Hasidic Jews are forbidden to have anything to do with secular culture as far as I know? Yet Jews are not suppose to eat pork but you'll catch they arses eating Buella rib's. This dude actually converted back to being Hasidic about 2 years ago.

Have ya listened to a roots song. They are filled with Old Testament phrases...Again this part connects for me.

 

[imstush]

The teachings or should I say the beliefs of Roots. Which was in part derived from Ethopian Judism (sp). (Plausible for me...meaning I see the connection). Hasidic Jews are forbidden to have anything to do with secular culture as far as I know? Yet Jews are not suppose to eat pork but you'll catch they arses eating Buella rib's. This dude actually converted back to being Hasidic about 2 years ago.

Have ya listened to a roots song. They are filled with Old Testament phrases...Again this part connects for me.

IA, and Matisyahu is actually a very good reggae artist. My ex and his friends (all "hard core" Jamaicans) were the ones that put me on to him (because I love my roots). He's very conscious.

 

[Synthia]

Uh, you brought it up hon, not me. Far be it for me to stand by while you make assertions based on erroneous information. Your statement was simply not true, now you want to claim that I'm the one who focused on it. Now who is it that has a problem maintaining a logical debate?



Oh yeah, clear as mud, not to mention inaccurate.



Actually my reasoning is quite valid. You reject it because it shows that you based your entire argument on a specious basis. You stated that you choose to date/mate with black men to reject the notion of white superiority. I simply pointed out that black women IR mating/dating is a stronger rejection of same considering that the racial superiority notion gives white men higher status. You then stated that you reject racial superiority. It's clear that you don't because in your effort to reject it, you're actually embracing it. If all men are equal, then the notion of having to mate with a black man to prove that you reject the notion of racial superiority is ridiculous on its face. All it proves is that this has had such a monumental impact on you that you can't even choose a man based on his merit.

It's simply a matter of course that your manner of doing so has been tried for more than 400 years and has been found lacking. Therein lies your desire to have it both ways. Racial superiority is a perfectly legitimate reason to mate with black men, but when I point out that its also a perfectly logical reason to mate with white men, then suddenly you don't want to play into the notion of racial superiority. If the notion of racial superiority is such that its informing your mate choices, then how can you then say you reject the notion?



Goddess help you. It seems that you cannot seem to carry on a debate without resorting to petty insults. Sad commentary on your lack of debating skills. Next!

1. These negative comments about debating skills apply more to you than me.

Go back and read through the progression of comments. Really do this with an open mind.

2. Now, though I said I was done with you. I want to wade through some of your muddle and address a few points in this post.
a. There was no erroneous information. If one mentions selective info and leaves out something you think should be said. It's not erroneous. I wrote a paragraph, not a thesis.

b. You said: "All it proves is that this has had such a monumental impact on you that you can't even choose a man based on his merit." I choose a man based on his attributes and one of the attributes that I find satisfying is his ethnic and cultural background.


3. I actually enjoy debates ... and like entertaining opposite views. But one has to have counterpoints that are logical and address the sincere points made before. You can't corrupt a person's words, twist their meanings and then respond that.

 

[rozlips]

The teachings or should I say the beliefs of Roots. Which was in part derived from Ethopian Judism (sp). (Plausible for me...meaning I see the connection). Hasidic Jews are forbidden to have anything to do with secular culture as far as I know? Yet Jews are not suppose to eat pork but you'll catch they arses eating Buella rib's. This dude actually converted back to being Hasidic about 2 years ago.

Have ya listened to a roots song. They are filled with Old Testament phrases...Again this part connects for me.

Oh, I see, I was thinking about the whole Bensonhurst thing. No, I'm not familiar with roots music, I'll have to check it out. It sounds interesting. I just thought it odd that a Hasidic Jew would be exposed to this, but if its Hebraic it makes more sense.