Why are a large % of black women unmarried?

[Bunny77]

Men don't need to get married, woman collectively have made it FAR to easy for them. The whole "Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free" philosophy.

They don't have to court or even date a woman, just get a cell or house phone number and ask to come "chill" at your place or you come by his place, and this is in the first week

Sex starts within the first few weeks to few months

What incentive is there for a man to get to know a woman as a person when she's offering up everything on a platter the first few weeks of knowing him? Taking on the wifely duties to show him what a good wife she can be but not taking into account whether he would make a good friend much less boyfriend or husband.

And say the relationship lasts more than 6 months or a woman gets pregnant, there is no 'pressure' (not the word I'm looking for but it's 2am) to get married and form a family. Having children OOW is the norm so why bother being tied down to a woman and her kid when he can have 3 or 4 woman and eleventy children and everyone looks the other way?

There is no incentive for men to marry anymore. Repeated years of free reign has put them on a power trip. Men making $18k a year flipping burgers at Wendy's are asking for prenup cause Fiddy got one and "broads" are out for his paper.

Definitely co-sign on all this!

 

[Bunny77]

IMO, 'Why are a large % of black women unmarried?', is just another cleverly disguised version of Blame the Black Woman Syndrome. Of course, the reason we are not getting married is because of them, and yes in a community where the women have low marriage rates and low outdating rates, it is entirely possible for black men to get married faster than we are. All this self-analyzing and dissecting, nobody has put forth the simplest reason why we aren't getting married and that is because a great majority of us aren't being asked. In a patriarchal society, which we are, MEN ask WOMEN for their hands in marriage. So I could see, if an individual BW analyzed herself during/after a relationship that is not going in the direction she thought it would. However if we're going to extend that question to encompass the whole community, IMO, you can't leave out the male part of the equation. It must be asked, "Why aren't black men seeking marriage with black women in greater numbers?".

...And MOST of them are marrying sisters (with a few splatterings of other color).

Why doesit matter that most black men are marrying sisters? If you're a marriage minded woman, it should only matter in the context of how this affects the marriage/singleness rates for black women. From where I'm sitting, marriage is the exception not the rule in the black community. Otherwise, this is just some feel good propoganda.

My intention is not to make people angry or bring anyone down. It's just that feel that black women are used to accepting the blame and all responsibility for a solution to the black community's problems.

I totally agree with this too. Black women do waaaaaay too much self-analysis about this topic. I mean sure, everyone should take inventory of themselves but BW are asked to do it more than any other group of people and it hasn't made much of a difference at all in our marriage rates...

This is a multi-faceted issue, definitely.

 

[SEMO]

I totally agree with this too. Black women do waaaaaay too much self-analysis about this topic. I mean sure, everyone should take inventory of themselves but BW are asked to do it more than any other group of people and it hasn't made much of a difference at all in our marriage rates...

This is a multi-faceted issue, definitely.

I agree with both of you.

When talking about why a marriage rate is the way it is you have to look to both sides of the aisle (at women and men). And self-analyzing to try to make yourself into this fictional perfect woman doesn't, I think, really help. Because if you're "perfect" who's left to be on your level? Plus, I think it's more important to know whether you are mature enough to grow and change with someone in marriage rather than be perfect from the jump.

 

[Syrah]

IMO, 'Why are a large % of black women unmarried?', is just another cleverly disguised version of Blame the Black Woman Syndrome. Of course, the reason we are not getting married is because of them, and yes in a community where the women have low marriage rates and low outdating rates, it is entirely possible for black men to get married faster than we are. All this self-analyzing and dissecting, nobody has put forth the simplest reason why we aren't getting married and that is because a great majority of us aren't being asked. In a patriarchal society, which we are, MEN ask WOMEN for their hands in marriage. So I could see, if an individual BW analyzed herself during/after a relationship that is not going in the direction she thought it would. However if we're going to extend that question to encompass the whole community, IMO, you can't leave out the male part of the equation. It must be asked, "Why aren't black men seeking marriage with black women in greater numbers?".

...And MOST of them are marrying sisters (with a few splatterings of other color).

Why doesit matter that most black men are marrying sisters? If you're a marriage minded woman, it should only matter in the context of how this affects the marriage/singleness rates for black women. From where I'm sitting, marriage is the exception not the rule in the black community. Otherwise, this is just some feel good propoganda.

My intention is not to make people angry or bring anyone down. It's just that feel that black women are used to accepting the blame and all responsibility for a solution to the black community's problems.

I agree with the bit about propoganda. But you're looking at the situation from a perspective of who's at fault. What about the flip side - who can make changes?? BOTH sides can make changes, but considering the fact that we're a bunch of women and the only people we can control are ourselves, the question we should be asking - are there some things we can be doing differently??

Placing blame and self assessing are two totally different things.

 

[Syrah]

I totally agree with this too. Black women do waaaaaay too much self-analysis about this topic. I mean sure, everyone should take inventory of themselves but BW are asked to do it more than any other group of people and it hasn't made much of a difference at all in our marriage rates...

This is a multi-faceted issue, definitely.

Have we REALLY do any self assessment - or have we chocked it up to the fact that "real black men can't handle an independent sister with an education, car and house" blah blah blah?

 

[Ms Red]

Well daaaaaam. You broke that down, didn't you? Co-sign.

Men don't need to get married, woman collectively have made it FAR to easy for them. The whole "Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free" philosophy.

They don't have to court or even date a woman, just get a cell or house phone number and ask to come "chill" at your place or you come by his place, and this is in the first week

Sex starts within the first few weeks to few months

What incentive is there for a man to get to know a woman as a person when she's offering up everything on a platter the first few weeks of knowing him? Taking on the wifely duties to show him what a good wife she can be but not taking into account whether he would make a good friend much less boyfriend or husband.

And say the relationship lasts more than 6 months or a woman gets pregnant, there is no 'pressure' (not the word I'm looking for but it's 2am) to get married and form a family. Having children OOW is the norm so why bother being tied down to a woman and her kid when he can have 3 or 4 woman and eleventy children and everyone looks the other way?

There is no incentive for men to marry anymore. Repeated years of free reign has put them on a power trip. Men making $18k a year flipping burgers at Wendy's are asking for prenup cause Fiddy got one and "broads" are out for his paper.

 

[Bunny77]

Have we REALLY do any self assessment - or have we chocked it up to the fact that "real black men can't handle an independent sister with an education, car and house" blah blah blah?

Well, some folks definitely do what you're saying, I don't deny that.

But I know I've never thought anything remotely near the above. I can only speak of my circle of friends in real life (and the women I see on this board) who don't act like this at all, and yet, outsiders still make it seem like there's "more" that we should be doing or 100000 things we're doing wrong and that's why we're not married.

I don't buy that, and I'm done with overanalysis!

 

[sunshinebeautiful]

Do ya'll think men are doing the same kind of self-analysis and work that women are? When is the last time ya'll have engaged in a convo with men who are truly doing the same type of self-analysis/self-assessment? Not just Black men but men in general.

There's a gender double standard that plays into this as well. Just one example.... women's magazines, across the board, are built around seeking relationships above all else, with all kinds of recommendations for "getting a man," "Keeping a man," or "keeping him sexually satisfied." Meanwhile men get messages about being unskilled in relationships, to date (sex?) as many women as possible, being taught how to love, and that women are mostly valued for looking pretty/being sexy/keeping house, etc. Shoot, when you add all that stuff together, no wonder it's a damn mess.

I'm in favor of family and community-building across the board and I just don't think the work is being done equally between men and women.

If a woman isn't married or doesn't have a man, the message is sent that there's something wrong with her that needs to be "fixed" or she needs to "work on herself," as if that guarantees a man will just come along. If a man isn't married, it's not really a big deal at all, matter fact they're "studs" and "ladies men" because they can date around, haven't settled down, and probably have women playing out the "wifey" role for them without a ring.

For me, I really think it's as simple as I haven't met the man who has the same overall values as myself, with personality characteristics that agree with mine - that equals no marriage. Plain and simple.

And let's not get it twisted, just because a sista *is* married doesn't necessarily mean they were don't something "right" and you weren't.

 

[JFemme]

Do ya'll think men are doing the same kind of self-analysis and work that women are? When is the last time ya'll have engaged in a convo with men who are truly doing the same type of self-analysis/self-assessment? Not just Black men but men in general.

There's a gender double standard that plays into this as well. Just one example.... women's magazines, across the board, are built around seeking relationships above all else, with all kinds of recommendations for "getting a man," "Keeping a man," or "keeping him sexually satisfied." Meanwhile men get messages about being unskilled in relationships, to date (sex?) as many women as possible, being taught how to love, and that women are mostly valued for looking pretty/being sexy/keeping house, etc. Shoot, when you add all that stuff together, no wonder it's a damn mess.

I'm in favor of family and community-building across the board and I just don't think the work is being done equally between men and women.

If a woman isn't married or doesn't have a man, the message is sent that there's something wrong with her that needs to be "fixed" or she needs to "work on herself," as if that guarantees a man will just come along. If a man isn't married, it's not really a big deal at all, matter fact they're "studs" and "ladies men" because they can date around, haven't settled down, and probably have women playing out the "wifey" role for them without a ring.

For me, I really think it's as simple as I haven't met the man who has the same overall values as myself, with personality characteristics that agree with mine - that equals no marriage. Plain and simple.

And let's not get it twisted, just because a sista *is* married doesn't necessarily mean they were don't something "right" and you weren't.

You've echoed my exact thoughts...

 

[janiebaby]

Do ya'll think men are doing the same kind of self-analysis and work that women are? When is the last time ya'll have engaged in a convo with men who are truly doing the same type of self-analysis/self-assessment? Not just Black men but men in general.

There's a gender double standard that plays into this as well. Just one example.... women's magazines, across the board, are built around seeking relationships above all else, with all kinds of recommendations for "getting a man," "Keeping a man," or "keeping him sexually satisfied." Meanwhile men get messages about being unskilled in relationships, to date (sex?) as many women as possible, being taught how to love, and that women are mostly valued for looking pretty/being sexy/keeping house, etc. Shoot, when you add all that stuff together, no wonder it's a damn mess.

I'm in favor of family and community-building across the board and I just don't think the work is being done equally between men and women.

If a woman isn't married or doesn't have a man, the message is sent that there's something wrong with her that needs to be "fixed" or she needs to "work on herself," as if that guarantees a man will just come along. If a man isn't married, it's not really a big deal at all, matter fact they're "studs" and "ladies men" because they can date around, haven't settled down, and probably have women playing out the "wifey" role for them without a ring.

For me, I really think it's as simple as I haven't met the man who has the same overall values as myself, with personality characteristics that agree with mine - that equals no marriage. Plain and simple.

And let's not get it twisted, just because a sista *is* married doesn't necessarily mean they were don't something "right" and you weren't.

That's all I'm tryna say...you've read my mind:notworthy

 

[Syrah]

For me, I really think it's as simple as I haven't met the man who has the same overall values as myself, with personality characteristics that agree with mine - that equals no marriage. Plain and simple.

And there it is!

 

[Coffee]

I must admit when I first met my now husband, I wasn't attracted to him because he was overweight, but nice looking. I went to the gym 3-4 x per week and kept my self in good condition. I went to the movies with him and I saw how funny, sensitive he was, great personality, a perfect gentleman (open doors/car doors and still does that). I found myself being very spiritually attracted to him, he was also very caring, I mean everything I wanted in a man, except his weight. Well after 3 years of dating, I married him, he had lost some weight, but was still overweight. I realized that I did love him and the weight didn't bother me anymore. He has since lost the weight without any pushing from me and he still has all the other qualities that attracted me to him. Had I not overlooked his weight I would have lost a wonderful wonderful man and husband. We've been together 11 years and married 8 1/2. He still sends flowers for no reason, makes my coffee every morning even tho he doesn't drink it, opens the car door for me and spoils me rotten!! While people can lose weight, if they don't have all the other good qualities you're looking for they probably won't ever have them.

 

[sunshinebeautiful]

I must admit when I first met my now husband, I wasn't attracted to him because he was overweight, but nice looking. I went to the gym 3-4 x per week and kept my self in good condition. I went to the movies with him and I saw how funny, sensitive he was, great personality, a perfect gentleman (open doors/car doors and still does that). I found myself being very spiritually attracted to him, he was also very caring, I mean everything I wanted in a man, except his weight. Well after 3 years of dating, I married him, he had lost some weight, but was still overweight. I realized that I did love him and the weight didn't bother me anymore. He has since lost the weight without any pushing from me and he still has all the other qualities that attracted me to him. Had I not overlooked his weight I would have lost a wonderful wonderful man and husband. We've been together 11 years and married 8 1/2. He still sends flowers for no reason, makes my coffee every morning even tho he doesn't drink it, opens the car door for me and spoils me rotten!! While people can lose weight, if they don't have all the other good qualities you're looking for they probably won't ever have them.

This is a beautiful story. Thanks for sharing. I've struggled with my weight all my life, so I can relate to this story. At times in my life, I feel like I have been consistently overlooked because I don't have the "banging body" that some other women have. My weight fluctuates and with the fluctuation comes the fluctuation of male interest too.

I may *never* lose weight to be considered "thin" (and I damn sure ain't growing a new *** no time soon ) and you know what... that's ok with me. But the point you make is well-taken... a lot of people miss out on their blessings because it doesn't "look" like your ideal. Whatever the age, some people just aren't mature enough to look beyond superficial characteristics to stuff that is lasting and will never change about a potential partner. That's what gets you married and keeps you married.

 

[Maa Maa omo mti]

SB I've been sitting back and watching your answers and agreeing on how you express yourself cause i knew you would capture everything I'm thinking. Good job Cuz

 

[JewelleNY]

Do ya'll think men are doing the same kind of self-analysis and work that women are? When is the last time ya'll have engaged in a convo with men who are truly doing the same type of self-analysis/self-assessment? Not just Black men but men in general.

There's a gender double standard that plays into this as well. Just one example.... women's magazines, across the board, are built around seeking relationships above all else, with all kinds of recommendations for "getting a man," "Keeping a man," or "keeping him sexually satisfied." Meanwhile men get messages about being unskilled in relationships, to date (sex?) as many women as possible, being taught how to love, and that women are mostly valued for looking pretty/being sexy/keeping house, etc. Shoot, when you add all that stuff together, no wonder it's a damn mess.

I'm in favor of family and community-building across the board and I just don't think the work is being done equally between men and women.

If a woman isn't married or doesn't have a man, the message is sent that there's something wrong with her that needs to be "fixed" or she needs to "work on herself," as if that guarantees a man will just come along. If a man isn't married, it's not really a big deal at all, matter fact they're "studs" and "ladies men" because they can date around, haven't settled down, and probably have women playing out the "wifey" role for them without a ring.

For me, I really think it's as simple as I haven't met the man who has the same overall values as myself, with personality characteristics that agree with mine - that equals no marriage. Plain and simple.

And let's not get it twisted, just because a sista *is* married doesn't necessarily mean they were don't something "right" and you weren't.

Sunshine, you are on point in this thread

 

[CarefreeinChicago]

SB I've been sitting back and watching your answers and agreeing on how you express yourself cause i knew you would capture everything I'm thinking. Good job Cuz

I agree with this

 

[sunshinebeautiful]

Thanks yall. Clearly I have too much time on my hands to be really thinking about this stuff.

 

[shocol]

I agree with the bit about propoganda. But you're looking at the situation from a perspective of who's at fault. What about the flip side - who can make changes?? BOTH sides can make changes, but considering the fact that we're a bunch of women and the only people we can control are ourselves, the question we should be asking - are there some things we can be doing differently??

Placing blame and self assessing are two totally different things.

I'm not trying to lay blame and fault anyone. And I agree about self assessment. I think the only responsibility we have is to prepare yourself for the kind of life and the kind of man that you want. Be able to recognize that you're good enough. And while you're out there working on yourself, acquire the ability to separate your own issues from other people's issues.

That's really all I'm trying to say in this post and the previous one. That you're good enough as you are. And that some people will have you wading waist deep in s--t, trying to convince you that all of it is your own.

 

[ChasingBliss]

I must admit when I first met my now husband, I wasn't attracted to him because he was overweight, but nice looking. I went to the gym 3-4 x per week and kept my self in good condition. I went to the movies with him and I saw how funny, sensitive he was, great personality, a perfect gentleman (open doors/car doors and still does that). I found myself being very spiritually attracted to him, he was also very caring, I mean everything I wanted in a man, except his weight. Well after 3 years of dating, I married him, he had lost some weight, but was still overweight. I realized that I did love him and the weight didn't bother me anymore. He has since lost the weight without any pushing from me and he still has all the other qualities that attracted me to him. Had I not overlooked his weight I would have lost a wonderful wonderful man and husband. We've been together 11 years and married 8 1/2. He still sends flowers for no reason, makes my coffee every morning even tho he doesn't drink it, opens the car door for me and spoils me rotten!! While people can lose weight, if they don't have all the other good qualities you're looking for they probably won't ever have them.

I love this post. You've basically described me and my SO to a T.

 

[Dymondz7]

I blame black men and black women. I blame the single black women of yester-year raising dependent momma's boys, who were treated as surrogate significant others when THEIR men took off, that don't know how to truly function in relationships. They want to be the man in the relationship, "make the decisions", "be head of household" but want the responsibilities that come along with that title. I blame the black men who view a woman's attempt at financial stability as a woman who's "trying to be a man" - because she's educated, paid and financially savvy.

AND I blame black women for thinking that an education, good job and self sufficient lifestyle (own car, own house, pays her own bills - like thats something to brag about) as GROUNDS for a successful relationship. We talk about this "independent" woman stuff - but independence does not make for a good relationship, because relationships by default are CO-Dependent. Being educated and financially savvy while being supportive and nurturing are NOT mutually exclusive...and we "independent" black women have yet to figure that out.

In any relationship there are roles and players. To be in a relationship, you have to be willing to play those roles. And THIS is where we go wrong.

I'm unpopular among my afr am girlfriends for sharing this view. They say I just don't "get it" And that's being too passive. Huh?

 

[Dymondz7]

Very Interesting

 

[glam-]

Do ya'll think men are doing the same kind of self-analysis and work that women are? When is the last time ya'll have engaged in a convo with men who are truly doing the same type of self-analysis/self-assessment? Not just Black men but men in general.

There's a gender double standard that plays into this as well. Just one example.... women's magazines, across the board, are built around seeking relationships above all else, with all kinds of recommendations for "getting a man," "Keeping a man," or "keeping him sexually satisfied." Meanwhile men get messages about being unskilled in relationships, to date (sex?) as many women as possible, being taught how to love, and that women are mostly valued for looking pretty/being sexy/keeping house, etc. Shoot, when you add all that stuff together, no wonder it's a damn mess.

I'm in favor of family and community-building across the board and I just don't think the work is being done equally between men and women.

If a woman isn't married or doesn't have a man, the message is sent that there's something wrong with her that needs to be "fixed" or she needs to "work on herself," as if that guarantees a man will just come along. If a man isn't married, it's not really a big deal at all, matter fact they're "studs" and "ladies men" because they can date around, haven't settled down, and probably have women playing out the "wifey" role for them without a ring.

For me, I really think it's as simple as I haven't met the man who has the same overall values as myself, with personality characteristics that agree with mine - that equals no marriage. Plain and simple.

And let's not get it twisted, just because a sista *is* married doesn't necessarily mean they were don't something "right" and you weren't.

Sunshine, excellent points. And I think the bolded statements are things that are frequently forgotten in this kind of dialogue.

 

[glam-]

Ditto. I'm learning to stop getting advice from single ladies and to listen to ladies in healthy relationships

True, true. And CurleeDST's comments were very educational.

 

[foxxymami]

Sunshine, you are on point in this thread

I agree Jewell

 

[foxxymami]

Wow ladies, I am SOOOOO enjoying this discussion. All of you are bringing some excellent and thoughtful posts with a fury! I :luv2: the Relationship board discussions

 

[MuseofTroy]

The problem is that many of us aren’t acknowledging that although black men need to get it together, black women aren’t perfect themselves. Sadly a lot of black women I’ve encountered don’t know HOW to be in a relationship. Some of it is due to them believing that being “Miss Independent” constitutes that they are a good catch. UM wrong. Education and having financial stability is great, but what about everything else? I think there are a lot of black women who have daddy issues as a result of being raised in a single parent household dominated by women. In addition I think black women are less open to dating outside of their race than other groups. Nevertheless this issue has been beaten to death and I really think each woman needs to assess what is going on in her own personal life and work it out.

 

[sunshinebeautiful]

I'm SOOOO glad you brought this up.

Honestly, I agree with everything you said - I look forward to playing that nurturing role in the relationship - despite the fact that I'm a Management and Strategy consultant right now. This is temporary. Me becoming a wife and mother is permanent.

The thing is - how many of us present THAT side of ourselves early on in relationships (the loving wife and mother) that you mention?? Maybe THATs it, that we think in order to attract the good men we have to be on THEIR level, not realizing that what the good men want is someone who is willing to be the support system.

It's kind of like basketball - the best teams all have a good point guard. He's not necessarily the dude scoring the points, making the all star team, dunking etc. He's the dude who SETS UP THE PLAYS, who dishes out the ball to the open man.

I want to play quarterback. I'll help you get open, dish you the ball - and you can score the touchdown. We're in this together, but I have NO problem playing the support role.

I had missed this comment earlier in the thread.

Just brainstorming or thinking out loud... how does one present the "loving, nurturing wife and mother" side of oneself early in a relationship? I believe in general, I portray myself as a loving, supporting, and nurturing individual. Period, point blank. How does one's profession take away from those core qualities?

Speaking of catch 22's.... how many times have we, as women, heard about not playing the "wife" role without a ring? So exactly how does one go about "presenting the wife and mother" sides role early in a relationship? Just thinking out loud....

And what does thinking one has to "be on a good man's level" mean exactly?

I don't see anything wrong with playing the support role at all. My overall point is that I believe a key part of relationships are "practiced skills" that one becomes better at over time. Just like in the basketball/football examples.

I'm as much of a "career woman" (partially by default as I discussed earlier in this thread) as I am a "wife and mother"-type. Just like I can probably run the play, I can let my man go ahead and do his thing, and bring in the Gatorade from the sidelines so he can go ahead and get back into the game (hope that made sense, since i don't really do sports analogies ). I just don't believe those things are mutually exclusive.

I'm just looking for an opportunity to be let off of the bench and really get into the game.

 

[Bunny77]

Sunshinebeautiful, you are rockin' this thread! Go girl!

 

[CurleeDST]

Sunshine - you make some very good points. Ladies, in the end, the only thing you can CHANGE is yourself! If you desire these things then do what you would do when given the situation. For example, if you want to be a SAHM ultimately, LEARN HOW TO COOK! Don't say - you will learn when you get married. If you want to be married - make sure you can TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF! You need to know how to pay bills just like he needs to know how to pay bills.

I didn't let my husband off the hook either - before we went out on OUR FIRST DATE I asked him if he knew how to make decisions! That was important to me b/c any man I married had to know how to lead a household and be someone whose decision making skills I trusted since I planned to have my man lead my household! He answered my questions excellently and was true to his word b/ c he leads our household.

 

[SEMO]

Sunshine - you make some very good points. Ladies, in the end, the only thing you can CHANGE is yourself! If you desire these things then do what you would do when given the situation. For example, if you want to be a SAHM ultimately, LEARN HOW TO COOK! Don't say - you will learn when you get married. If you want to be married - make sure you can TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF! You need to know how to pay bills just like he needs to know how to pay bills.

I didn't let my husband off the hook either - before we went out on OUR FIRST DATE I asked him if he knew how to make decisions! That was important to me b/c any man I married had to know how to lead a household and be someone whose decision making skills I trusted since I planned to have my man lead my household! He answered my questions excellently and was true to his word b/ c he leads our household.

I agree with having a man who knows how to lead and make wise decisions. I plan on my husband being the head of our household too. You mentioned a couple times that your husband gave an excellent response to you question, so.......what did he say ?