"I'm Not Stealing Your Men"

[Optimus_Prime]

She comes off naive with that kumbaya we are the world crap.

I am convinced white women will never truly understand the complexities of Black women in this country. They don't understand our history, the breakdown of the Black family structure, the Euro standard of beauty in this country and how it affects women of color, the wealth gap, our culture, our hair.....NOTHING.


Side note: It does not bother me to see a BM/WW union, but I understand if for another Sister it stings.

Yes'm they do. It gives them much of what little peace of mind they experience. Please, don't let them fool you... or even try to school you...

I've dated outside my race before, I even have white associates; because of my personality, I get along well with (most) whites. (I can't stand ghetto-ness). But I will consciously choose black in an effort to save my race.

Mmmmm. Looks like Ashley wants to get herself a name and some fame by adding her 2 cents on the hottest topic of the month. Yawn. I'm supposed to give a fiddler's fart about what Becky thinks because....????

Do some black men choose non-black women because they are rejecting black women? Yes. But I would venture to say that the majority would be with their white girlfriends/wives if she had happened to be black too. To me, it's a first come-first serve proposition.

 

[tHENATuRALhAiRpRoJEcT]

The latest figures say 14% of married black men are married to white women. (According to the article below. However, it could be that it is 14% are in mixed marriages period. The way it is worded appears, however, that 14% are married to white women, + the smaller percentage married to Hispanic/Asian/others.)

Source: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iuya8xlYZXj_bz-rWLB_WYmwq1HQD9FUFV8O1
In contrast, blacks are now three times as likely to marry whites than in 1980. About 14.4 percent of black men and 6.5 percent of black women are currently in such mixed marriages, due to higher educational attainment, a more racially integrated military and a rising black middle class that provides more interaction with other races.

i love statistics!!!

ANYONE KNOW HOW THAT BREAK DOWN SHOWS FOR RICH BLACK MEN?

 

[cheetarah1980]

thank you Umsumayyah for the stats!

And let me say, while I respect all of my sistas opinions, if we were more cohesive as a people, we wouldn't have these issues... I'm jus sayin...

What kind of cohesiveness are you looking for? Why should I have the same thoughts and opinions as every other Black person in America when MY experiences are unique to me. I was discussing IR dating with my best friend last weekend. For her, it's not something she is comfortable with because she feels she can't be her true self. My experiences growing up were much different than hers so I feel perfectly comfortable dating outside my race. What works for one does not necessarily work for all and that is OKAY. I don't need to have the same politics, beliefs, and lifestyle as other blacks just because we share a skin tone and kinky hair.
The issues prevalent in African American communities isn't due to lack of cohesiveness. In fact there's too much cohesiveness in being complacent to live in an unending cycle of poverty, crime, lack of education, and more. Interracial relationships are the LEAST of the problems affecting many Black Americans. Is interracial dating between black men and white women the result of a rejection or degradation of black women? Sometimes. But not always. I just prefer to give the couple the benefit of the doubt (i.e. they just happened to meet and fall in love like any other couple) until I hear it from the horse's mouth that Dashawn chose Becky because he views her as better than black women and he wants some babies with "gud hurr."

 

[Kurlee]

I agree with most of what she said but she lost me at this part:

yup, the beautiful kids party made me . Becky siddown, you don't get it

 

[Kurlee]

Mmmmm. Looks like Ashley wants to get herself a name and some fame by adding her 2 cents on the hottest topic of the month. Yawn. I'm supposed to give a fiddler's fart about what Becky thinks because....????

 

[Kurlee]

If all the whites guys starting dating Asian women....women other than white and then we can have a discussion. She is culturally ignorant. On the surface, Affirmative Action and many more things seems very unfair. It is unfair for only Blacks to get to say the N word.

...

Side note, I don't mind people dating outside their race it is the reasons and the vitriol that comes with it.

and will be raising her "blackish" children on the same BS.

 

[necklengthcutie]

I bought that issue and after reading that I was quite offended myself. I have to side with the other woman(to a certain extent). As a product of a multi-ethnic background, I'm in the middle. Of course she has her right to her opinion (Jill) but she never mentioned the fact that a lot of black men strayed willingly first(not that it was wrong in the first place or that we "own" them). She also never mentioned black women (such as myself) who date interracially. We are all products of choice. Who you want to be with regardless of color should have no bearing on anyone else.

In this society, and all around the world white women are at the top of the beauty chain. This is a matter of opinion by standards but it's also a reality for us(the standard, not the actual truth). Commercials, entertainment, and other things remind us of that daily. I will say that the exposure of western society has possibly brainwashed some black men, especially in the beginning.

However, we have evolved as a culture and a country (stand a European next to an American, or an African next to an African American) and a lot of us are mixed race or have grown up along side different cultures. I think it's beautiful. I also think that if you chose to stay within your own means that it's beautiful as well. Just don't hate on those who chose not to.

*side note* I believe what she meant was that biracial babies are ONE of the many most beautiful(opinion). But there are pretty and ugly in every mix/ethnicity as we all know. She should have checked that.

 

[Bachelorette]

I have to agree with her. I don't see how a black man choosing a white woman is supposed to be a rejection of me when I don't even KNOW dude. Black men don't belong to me any more than I belong to them. No one can steal something that isn't yours.

Exactly why I find Jill and the other soul burned women embarrassing.

 

[Bachelorette]

I agree with most of what she said but she lost me at this part:

uh women in IRR on this very board have said the same thing

I guess it's people's way of saying "we were meant to be mixed thus God making mixed children gorgeous"

Lol shame it aint always true

 

[DragonPearl]

I have met some IR BM/WW relationships/marriages for which I have a lot of respect. These are people who met and fell in love regardless of color. That's a beautiful thing. And I have also known some who fell in "lust", and I don't think there is anything wrong with it either.

But that's not the crux of the issue.

I don't think anyone is "stealing" black men because I don't believe anyone can be stolen, but what I think this white woman failed to understand (or pretends to not understand) is that centuries of white domination has made her "the prize". When a highly visible/successful/powerful male member of the white community picks a mate, 9 out 10, the person will be a white woman. However, when a similarly highly visible/successful/powerful male member of the black community picks a mate, the odds are not so high the woman will be black. That's where the discrepancy is and that's why singing kumbaya does not work unless one is going to work to dismantle the white dominated mindset that elevates some women while diminishing others based on race.

 

[hasabe]

There is so much I want to say but honestly I feel conflicted about this issue. The bruises of slavery are still too sore. I honestly and truly believe in interracial marriage but I think it is way too easy for a white woman to make a comment like this if she hasn't experienced what we have. I don't think she can fully understand the complexity of such an issue and honestly, nor do I. Let's leave it at that and let time and progress heal the wounds.

 

[YankeeCandle]

Count me in the "have absolutely zero problem with cross-ethnic relationships but found this woman's particular mode of defense problematic" camp.

This woman's analysis is very much of a piece with the mainstream, uncritical, confused Majority culture that gives us people who stress their own color-blindness yet loudly deny White Privilege; who participate in Martin Luther King Jr Day celebrations yet complain about affirmative action stealing "their spot" in law school; who say things like "I just LOVE saris/henna/cowrie shell jewelry/fufu" and "black people have such beautiful skin!" and then get hotly defensive and belligerant when an actual member of that culture gently points out some not-so-nice-realities about cultural misappropriation by Westerners.

I agree with her core premise that cross-ethnic relationships should be destigmatized, but find her analysis oversimplified and lacking in nuance.

Fortunately, there are other European-ancestry women--adherents of a small, progressive, academic-minded humanist subculture---who express their thoughts on this issue in a much more nuanced fashion, recognizing the fraught past (slavery, colonialism, etc), the fraught present (exotification, fetishization, and misappropration of culture), and supporting cross-ethnic coupling in a fashion that doesn't sweep these matters under the rug. Some of them are involved in relationships with non-Euro men, but many aren't; their ideas stem from humanist principles, not self-serving convenience.

If I have more time this weekend, I will try to find an example for you.

I just wanted to point out that people here complaining about "Becky not getting it" are looking only at two extremes--Jill Scott's unnuanced and awkwardly-put opinions v. this Euro-American woman's unnuanced and awkwardly-put ones.

The truth is not made of strawmen; there are Majority member women who, if they don't totally "get it," are at least trying to, and showing they have an inkling of the deeper issues involved.

 

[tHENATuRALhAiRpRoJEcT]

She comes off naive with that kumbaya we are the world crap.

I am convinced white women will never truly understand the complexities of Black women in this country. They don't understand our history, the breakdown of the Black family structure, the Euro standard of beauty in this country and how it affects women of color, the wealth gap, our culture, our hair.....NOTHING.


Side note: It does not bother me to see a BM/WW union, but I understand if for another Sister it stings.

I THINK JILL spoke of seeing these trends in Hollywood, and with the high profile celebs & PRO ATHELETES in which the numbers are extremely high!
i remember seeing a spread on this on a site called field negro

http://www.afieldnegro.com/photos.html


http://www.afieldnegro.com/photos2.html

 

[anon123]

The latest figures say 14% of married black men are married to white women. (According to the article below. However, it could be that it is 14% are in mixed marriages period. The way it is worded appears, however, that 14% are married to white women, + the smaller percentage married to Hispanic/Asian/others.)

Source: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iuya8xlYZXj_bz-rWLB_WYmwq1HQD9FUFV8O1
In contrast, blacks are now three times as likely to marry whites than in 1980. About 14.4 percent of black men and 6.5 percent of black women are currently in such mixed marriages, due to higher educational attainment, a more racially integrated military and a rising black middle class that provides more interaction with other races.

This is really interesting, but I hate it when people write articles and don't cite their references. All the author does is put a link to the census, which has thousands of reports. That is not a citation.

 

[UmSumayyah]

This is really interesting, but I hate it when people write articles and don't cite their references. All the author does is put a link to the census, which has thousands of reports. That is not a citation.

A perfectly reasonable critique. I will look for the exact number.

 

[YankeeCandle]

Umsumayyah, that article you linked to said what box Obama checked on his Census. I thought Census responses were supposed to confidential? That's messed up.

 

[Twix]

Please stand back and look at the bigger picture. Black men choosing outside of their race IS an affirmation that black women are not beautiful. It is plainly stating that what we look like is not acceptable. He may not be rejecting you, but he's clearly saying that you are not beautiful enough to be with him/have his children. It is (loudly) saying that 'my vision of beauty is NOT the black woman! Personally, I think it's a form of self hatred. This image that they run from, the black woman, is not good enough for them. Well it was good enough to give birth to them, but not good enough to share his life with. Everyday, we are constantly barraged and battered by the white man's images of beauty. It can be (and is) very damaging to our delicate souls. I've dated outside my race before, I even have white associates; because of my personality, I get along well with (most) whites. (I can't stand ghetto-ness). But I will consciously choose black in an effort to save my race.

Wait, what? That sounds just as dumb as a white person choosing white to save their race. Marry who you want because you love them, not because of some altrusitic mission to "save the race".

Also: black people aren't all ghetto. Just sayin. That (along with the chitterling thing from a later post) sounds just as brainwashed as black guys who date out to avoid (insert stigma of black women).

 

[8HoursFromHome]

Wait, what? That sounds just as dumb as a white person choosing white to save their race. Marry who you want because you love them, not because of some altrusitic mission to "save the race".

Also: black people aren't all ghetto. Just sayin. That (along with the chitterling thing from a later post) sounds just as brainwashed as black guys who date out to avoid (insert stigma of black women).

Point taken...opinion respected

 

[8HoursFromHome]

The plan is to divide and conquer...

 

[Twix]

The plan is to divide and conquer...

Then in order to save the race and avoid the fate of being divided and conquered by the majority, shall we divide ourselves from them so that we are once again separate but equal? Not prodding, but I am genuinely curious; when I hear things like that, it makes me wonder if the people who think such things see the civil rights movement and desegregation as a bad thing.

 

[8HoursFromHome]

Civil rights movement...never bad. I just feel as though we are a people whose legs were chopped off and are still expected to run the same race.

 

[8HoursFromHome]

I am TRULY DEEPLY conflicted on this subject. If it wasn't for IR, I wouldn't be here...my grandmother is Chinese...and her grandmother was white...

 

[tHENATuRALhAiRpRoJEcT]

Civil rights movement...never bad. I just feel as though we are a people whose legs were chopped off and are still expected to run the same race.

wow!
i've lectured on this topic before....expectations...catching up
a man shackled for 400 years (reference to slavery), fights for freedom.....becomes unchained--- NOW not only is expected to "stand" in perfect posture, & walk with the same stride, BUT EXPECTED TO RUN THE SAME RACE & somehow WIN???? .... when those who have been provided training for this for the same period of time are indeed 400 yrs ahead

how long would it take to catch up?<-- basically what i spoke about, this expectancy & affirmative action
applies to economics, EDUCATION, etc. etc.

 

[~Sparklingflame~]

wow!
i've lectured on this topic before....expectations...catching up

a man shackled for a hundred years, becomes unchained.....not only is expected to stand and walk with the same stride, BUT EXPECTED TO RUN THE SAME 3 LEGGED RACE AT EQUAL DISTANCES ... EQUAL PACED as those who have been provided training for this for the same period of time

applies to economics, EDUCATION, etc. etc.

Where have you lectured if you dont mind my asking.

 

[tHENATuRALhAiRpRoJEcT]

you're welcome sis....always

 

[Much2much41]

I think the woman in the OP presented her point very well, but she still doesn't show a deep understanding of why black women react the way they do--she doesn't address what Jill was really getting at. She probably also has little conception of all of the illegitimate reasons that black men date outside of their race...white women speaking to this topic can be somewhat naive in that way. If racial issues could be solved with a simple "We're all the same--love has no color," then they wouldn't be so persistent.

Also, I just find it interesting the obsession with biracial children. Personally I would love to have a brown skinned baby with dark brown eyes and kinky hair that I could put into cute little afro puffs. I don't understand how it would be political anathema to say white children are the most beautiful or Asian children are the most beautiful, but white/black children can be the "most beautiful"?

Of course it does. It comes in blonde hair and blue eyes

I am okay w/the IR thing for the most part, and there is progress, but the numbers don't bear up equally across the board. If my brother can date Becky, why isn't Becky's brother checking for me?

You know Bunny, I have to say I pretty much agree with everything you said. The bold is what I take issue with when talking about this subject. The whole trying to convince me the grass is red, when I can clearly see it's green just annoys me. I have an issue accepting the kumbaya message from white ppl on how we should all just be color blind esp. when they're addressing black ppl. So why don't you (in general) go tell white ppl we should all just be color blind. I find it rather condescending to tell BW how they should think/feel.

And then she goes on to say this: "It’s 2010-our president is the product of an interracial couple, so are we really still struggling to accept interracial dating"? What does the Presidents racial makeup have to do with IR dating He's married to a black woman.

IDK, I'm irked that she feels the need to promote IR dating. Ppl should date who they like, but I just feel some kind of ulterior motive when ppl feel the need to promote certain things.

Yup

 

[tHENATuRALhAiRpRoJEcT]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ WOW!



^^^^^^^^^^ ooooooooohhhhhhh HIT'S HOME RUN!!! where did the ball go????

 

[Renewed1]

^^^ Well Becky's and Ying Che's brother has been checking me out.

I haven't read this entire thread....but my thoughts.

I really do believe there is progression when it comes to IR dating/marriage. I can't nick pick and argue over ever little thing regarding IR dating/marriage. It does take temperance and patience -- more importantly it takes both couples being on the same page regarding various cultures. That's all I care about.

 

[CurlyMoo]

I totally agree. And on a side note, saying a white woman (or any other race for that matter) wouldn't understand where a black woman is coming from when it upsets them to see "their" men with other races..is completely not true. Dating does go the other way. White men with black women...and every other race out there. It can cause that "sting" among any race if the person believes in dating only within your own skin color. We're all human. Love is love. If we were absolutely supposed to only stick to our own, we probably wouldn't be able to produce children with others. But we can. Because we are all human. And beautiful children come in EVERY skin color.............

I have to disagree with the bolded. White women and women of other races are not constantly bombarded with statistic showing them that the numbers don't add up when it comes to dating men of their race. They are not forced to accept the fact that many of the men in their race are in prison, gay or in interracial relationships; not to mention the lack of education that many Black women would love for their men to have. Nor are they looking at many famous white business men, atheletes and entertainers who have chosen to be with women of other races. Nor do they have to read articles and watch youtubes from men of their race shouting about how terrible they are. They are not singled out by the media as angry, materialist and unfeminine. Nor are they considered bottom of the barrel choices. They are not being told they are the reason for the failure of their communities and families. The pressure is on Black women in ways White women can never understand. And these White/other women, who will someday raise little brown/tan skinned girls, should take a little time to understand that fact.

Why is it that Black women are not allowed to want their own? Just like White, Asian, Hispanic and Native American women, Black women want families that look like them. There is nothing wrong with that and to make Black women feel as if we are abnormal for feeling this way is down right insensitive. But not caring how Black women feel or think is obviously not the concern of these women. They are getting what they want and keeping it moving.

As much as I am fan of interracial relationships, I don't let it cloud my common sense either. Nor am I angry with White/other women. But we are not school girls just finding out about the big city either. This issue has been talked to death for many years now. And you would think some education and sensitivity would have come out of it. Cool, you want Mandingo Muhammad but don't act like you don't know what that comes with. Black women are going to have a problem with it! FACT! Do I think Black women need to get over it and stop crying in their curly fries? YES! Should Black women make stank faces and throw pennies at these couples. NO! But, I completely understand how Black women feel and where it is coming from. Especially those that are die hard Black men lovers/supporters. Let it be the other way around when Black is the new master and women on the pedestal and we'll see who's crying and complaining in their curly fries...........

 

[CurlyMoo]

The latest figures say 14% of married black men are married to white women. (According to the article below. However, it could be that it is 14% are in mixed marriages period. The way it is worded appears, however, that 14% are married to white women, + the smaller percentage married to Hispanic/Asian/others.)

Source: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iuya8xlYZXj_bz-rWLB_WYmwq1HQD9FUFV8O1
In contrast, blacks are now three times as likely to marry whites than in 1980. About 14.4 percent of black men and 6.5 percent of black women are currently in such mixed marriages, due to higher educational attainment, a more racially integrated military and a rising black middle class that provides more interaction with other races.

So what are the statistics showing the number of Black men married to Black women vs. women of other races? I keep seeing statistics of single Black women at 47% but who are the 53% married too?