Kurlee
Well-Known Member
Lol! You sound so blah about all of this. Like I see you eyes rolling behind the screen.
Black Women And Late Marriage
- Thread starter Kanky
- Start date
I think UmSumayyah breaks it down perfectly without all the extra hogwash and feelings.
Kurlee
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure that there is a whole group solution to this because each person's situation is so different. Some women will be OK with dating down and being the breadwinner in their marriage. (This could never be me.) Some women will decide that they have enough family and community support to raise children without a husband. (For the vast majority of black women trying it, this is not the case. Check to see if those folks want to be your support BEFORE you get knocked up. ) Some black women will date out to find a quality husband.
@ the bolded!I don't think she is being blah about this at all. I think she cares very much for Black womans happiness and lifestyle choices. But I have read through the archives of this forum and this has been talked about ad nauseum. Doesn't negate that this is till a talk worthy of discussion. Any decision in life you make should be broken down to a simple plan of action.
There are blogs and books for Black women who are serious about marriage, life without marriage, and children. The original article post we discussed comes from one of the blogs that goes into very great detail about Black womans choices.
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bubbles12345
Well-Known Member
My thoughts:
Future black American kids will be a lot lighter and more will be born to single mothers.
Solutions:
I really don't know honestly. If more men would get involved that will help, but they won't so...
I guess all we can do is help those that we love. I don't see a community happening because as you can see alot of bw are very into maintaining unicorn status.
If my black American friends would ever listen to me, I would tell them:
-date! Date! Date! You should be dating weekly. Stop hanging with the girls all the time and chilling with guys. Go where the men are.Do people even go on dates anymore?
-wear make up. Work out.
-be open to the quiet geeky guy.
-stop spending time with loser guys.
-conisder dating a black man from culture or outside your race.
-
That's all I got :/
I think that the most important thing is to be clear eyed about your situation and your options and make your choices based on reality and not wishful thinking. Riding off into the sunset at 40 with a rich man and a healthy IVF baby is not going to happen for most women.
MsSanz92
Well-Known Member
This is so true I can speak from my own family. My maternal grandparents moved from rural Alabama to NY to give my mother and aunts and uncles a better quality of life, only to have my siblings and cousins to start over again rebuilding some semblance of a middle class lifestyle/financial stability. This is too common for many Black families and it should not be the case. As I mentioned, even with the people whose parents and them were raised middle class, they also somehow begin to slip down the socioeconomic ladder. I have friends like this from college who are still struggling working numerous jobs to make ends meet, because despite their parents being middle class, they still don't have much to pass on to them or the means to help them out financially.
I honestly feel like mixed Black people raised by non-Black women, especially White women almost always have some issues with identity. I know a lot of people who have Black fathers and non-Black mothers and in 90% of the cases, their father was absent in their lives or they do not have a good relationship with them. It's particularly common with people with White mothers. A lot of these people I know have this subconscious "I am better than other Black people" aura to them, yet still find a way to try and gain acceptance by Black people. My mother always says that they're the kind of people who feel like it's better to be a 1st class Black person than a 2nd class White person.
I personally feel that this new generation of children born to non-Black mothers and Black fathers will continue to perpetuate the character assassination of Black women. Honestly, they really had no choice because so many of these Black men who date/marry/procreate with these non-Black women feed them venom about BW, so as a result, they feed that same poison to their children, which has very damaging effects on their children, especially the girls. I think of people like Draya, who has been caught numerous times saying offensive things about non-mixed/darker skinned BW, most likely because she was raised by a WW who was probably spewing these negative ideas about BW to them, which she probably also heard from the BM she procreated with. It's particularly troubling for mixed raced girls because the same BW they try to bash and distance themselves from, society as a whole will lump them into the same category.
UmSumayyah
Well-Known Member
None of us is getting any younger, even those of us who are currently 21.
Life is not going to stop, time is not going to stop just because (general) you are waiting for a mass solution or permission to act in your own best interests.
So yeah. Get it together.
UmSumayyah
Well-Known Member
Thank you. I care, I'm just over it. The only one who has to live your life is you, so do something. We've discussed ir marriage vs. traditional black family, date the sweetheart garbage man or the evil philandering ceo
, have kids only in wedlock vs. oow, get into fighting shape vs. "men should love me the way I am", etc. etc. etc. Meanwhile... tick. Fricking. tock. I'm not sure what else there is to discuss. Not that it will stop me from being sucked into expounding upon these ideas in the near future.
MsSanz92
Well-Known Member
What I'm imagining is very comprehensive. I'm talking about not just blogs or forums, I'm talking about conferences, physical buildings, fundraising, mental/physical health services, databases where we can keep track of what particular resources certain BW want, outreach, connection to other community services, etc. pretty much a nonprofit strictly dedicated to empowering and providing resources and support to BW in regards to their romantic/reproductive choices/trajectories.
Kurlee
Well-Known Member
You said a mouthful here! I really feel like it must a confusing position because many of these kids are raised with dispositions and capital that society doesn't let them use, particular if they look more "black". I have also noticed that most of the kids don't get much out of their Black dads, so it's a double whammy.
In terms of generational wealth, we need to stop dragging our feet or we will continue to get left behind, especially since we can't wield economic, political or voting power.
Kurlee
Well-Known Member
These are good ideas. I think BW, even if we're only talking about 25% of them, NEED spaces to express themselves and have their experiences validated.
MsSanz92
Well-Known Member
Exactly. It's just frustrating that some BW don't see the value of this for others just because it might not be pertinent to them. Also, your life situation and view on the world can change a lot over time, so the way you see something at 25 probably won't be the same when you're 35. So even if you're at a point in your life where you're content with how your romantic life is playing out, why not have someplace to turn in the future if you ever need some support or a listening ear?
bubbles12345
Well-Known Member
Kurlee and MsSanz, can y'all start the non profit for this?
The overall message that this would send is that black women struggle so much to find a man that they need all of this stuff to help them out. And I'm trying to think of what a conference for old,single, childless and upset about it black women would be called.
londontresses
Well-Known Member
I was considering freezing my eggs until I found out the success rate is less than 50% (please correct me if I'm wrong). I don't know but that seems pretty low for the cost.
Does anyone know a single woman who has successfully conceived from eggs she froze when she was single and aging? (lol) Whether she eventually met someone in her late 30/early 40s or went the sperm donor route. This often comes up in these types of conversations as an option (here and in real life) but I don't know anyone who has actually done it.
Does anyone know a single woman who has successfully conceived from eggs she froze when she was single and aging? (lol) Whether she eventually met someone in her late 30/early 40s or went the sperm donor route. This often comes up in these types of conversations as an option (here and in real life) but I don't know anyone who has actually done it.
MsSanz92
Well-Known Member
I'm really contemplating it. I've always wanted to start a nonprofit and am thinking about going to grad school for nonprofit management
MsSanz92
Well-Known Member
We have other nonprofits/initiatives focused on addressing other social issues particularly affecting Black people at higher rates like absentee fatherhood, etc. so why not this? The reality is that it IS an issue for many BW, so regardless of people judging us or deeming us as helpless (which they do and will any way), something needs to be done. Quite frankly if creating a nonprofit that will help BW live more stable and fulfilling lives comes at the expense of people thinking whatever crazy inaccurate assumptions about BW, then so be it.
Kurlee
Well-Known Member
I need to really sit down and think about this seriously. There needs to be something! As much as I don't really care for Azalea Banks, there are so many women like her who are struggling with all of the layers of oppression that Black women face, whether it be financial, familial, relationships, education, mental health, support . . . there's a lot that we need to really support our healthy development. Some of us (who want it) are blessed to have education, husbands, fiancées, children, etc., but many don't and the joke is, divorce or tragedy can throw us into the same position as the people we think need to "just figure it out".
Kurlee
Well-Known Member
less than 50%???? Whoa. I wonder what the costs are like? With donors, I always think about how the children will feel when they grow up?
barbiesocialite
Well-Known Member
My girlfriends and I discus have this discussion everytime runs into a perputally single woman who claims she wants to get married but complains lack of quality options is only reason getting married is such a struggle.
I cant say what I usaully say IRL..... but almost every time a woman says something like this I'm kinda confsed.
Since the day I met them their entire life lookeed like a woman that likes being single to me. Not in a bad way. Just matter of factly. From her job, to her house, to her friends, to her hobbies and to her exes I wouldnt have pegged her a woman that's pressed to get married.*ye shrug*regardless if a woman ends choose to marry old or young----I'll go on and say that by 21 (maybe by 18
)--you can identify women who will find a husband fairly easy and naturally when she's ready to get married vs those who are ready for marriage for quite some time before they got it.. She wanted be a wife for a while but had to put in conscious effort before they actually found the husband. There are plenty of women who who went to college for their MRS. Degree who didnt get it. She was hoping to be a wife for college graduation but instead watched her girlfriends get married while she had to put in a lot of work strugglign to find a husband finally at 28. Meanwhile there are other women who were busy or not interested in being a wife til 36, her 37th birthday was a a destination wedding and Christmas was a babyshower.
People just need to know be honest with themselves about which girl they are.
The first girl doesnt have the luxury to put off marriage or kids for too long. She cant afford spending too much time in places or people who offer few or no eligible potential suitors.. Men that want to be husbands dont fall out the sky into her lap like that. She shouldt live a lifestyle or plan her goals as if they do because they dont and most likey wont start falling all of a sudden. Folks know who they are but some choose to ignore it or avoid it. If you ignore, you cant adjust accordingly. Which ends up making life much harder than necessary with too much time wasted focusing on the wrong things not in your favor. People like to make ish complicated when it shouldnt be. it really isnt.......
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UmSumayyah
Well-Known Member
The joke is, those who realize they should act to get what they want (rather than wait for the universe or the secret council of American energies to provide) are more likely to be on to the next chapter (and husband) while the indecisive have to settle with whatever schadenfraude they can get.
fasika
Well-Known Member
I cannot give you exact dates and articles right now (as I'm typing an essay I've been avoiding for a while
A particular moment/event in history class that I recall (Medieval western Europe) when women were expected to remain chase and pure until marriage this caused a big hoopla for the younger men. Why? Older men had access to these women because of social, political, and financial capital. Of course marriages between women and men of the same age occurred but it wasn't that common. The men usually had years ahead of their future wife because they had to prove their worthiness to care for her and the potential children. When economic times hit hard young men were extremely desperate and horny so rapes started to frequently occur. So to staff off this horrific increase in rapes society pushed for younger men to have access to marriage.
In modern times right now India and China both ancient civilizations with a disturbing common trait of practicing female infanticide. India seems to be a much worse place for women currently than in previous histories (I have another theory as why that is but that's another topic). The violence women face in India seems to be on par with the violence women face in Saudi Arabia and Pakistan but India's democratic and allows women to be politically open and advance in government so what gives? India just like China faces a female population shortage that is very severe and crippling to their very society if it wishes to advance and not die out. Indian womens main violent harassment cases of acid being hurled at them, I believe are the direct result of many mens hatred of women tied with the fact that they may be wifeless in the near future. It's a cycle of even more horrid violence. It's the very nature of angry and lonely men that overvalue their sexual needs: "If I cannot have you then I will disfigure you or rape you (tarnishing the perceived value of the girl), break you (spiritually, mentally) and even kill you so no one else can have you."
Male and female dynamics:
Men protect women is a key statement I hear a lot. But what are men protecting women from...
The effects of living in a patriarchal society
Men protect what they hold valuable and dear to them ie their wives and children. Of course men have mothers, aunts, grandmothers, and friends but its not at the same level of their wives and children. Those same mothers, aunts, grandmothers, and friends of course theoretically would have male protectors themselves (husbands). Men of course in large groups without the responsibility of a wife and or would not protect the women not directly valuable to them. Men in large groups even with access to sex on a somewhat reoccurring basis do not value women as whole unless they are directly tied to a women through marriage. (read any male rights activist and pua blogs/forum)
- other vile men in the community who may harm and commit acts of violence against women
- the man-made economic hardships of being a woman, who is valued less therefore payed less
- men outside the society that when war comes will subject women to violence
In short: women civilize men... as a group of course women have the potential to influence the men in the society to protect and raise up womens value. These same men do so by having direct ties to women they value and hold dear to them.
Great post. I also want to point out that a big cause for the Arab Spring was also legions of young men who are jobless and unable to form long-term commitments to women, which was fueling frustration. It's also one of the reasons that sexual harassment of women in Egyptian streets is rampant.
It's a well-known social phenomenon: men need to be partnered up, otherwise all violence skyrockets, but especially violence against women. That's why the skewed gender ratios of India and China are ringing alarm bells left and right.
nathansgirl1908
Well-Known Member
Some of yall are just obsessed with the topics covered in this article. It's crazy. Same thing that's been stated in millions of previous articles. Stop worrying about what these articles say and just live your life.
BEAUTYU2U
Well-Known Member
You're probably right. It's just making us more paranoid and neurotic.
Kurlee
Well-Known Member
i see your point, but doesn't the high interest say something in of itself? Anxiety? Fear?
Honey Bee
Well-Known Member
What annoys me about these conversations is how people insist on idealizing the past. The marriage market has always been competitive. It was always a lot of work to marry well (whatever that means for your social group). Women spent their whole lives preparing. You didn't just wake up one day with a line of suitors at the door (unless it was arranged, which most of you claim not to want). Unless you wanna marry a bum (whatever that means for your social group). That's always been super easy.
nathansgirl1908
Well-Known Member
That may be the case, but causing yourself (speaking generally) anxiety and panic only makes the situation worse.
ScorpioBeauty09
Well-Known Member
The bolded is what it really comes down to.Solutions:
I really don't know honestly. If more men would get involved that will help, but they won't so...
If my black American friends would ever listen to me, I would tell them:
-date! Date! Date! You should be dating weekly. Stop hanging with the girls all the time and chilling with guys. Go where the men are.Do people even go on dates anymore?
-wear make up. Work out.
-be open to the quiet geeky guy.
-stop spending time with loser guys.
-conisder dating a black man from culture or outside your race.
-
That's all I got :/
This thread is taking a depressing turn because everyone's tiptoeing around this. It would be great if BM who want to marry BW would step up but they haven't. All BW can do is take responsibility for our own lives.Similar threads
