Black Women And Late Marriage

[Femmefatal1981]

I agree about region playing a part in age of marriage.

When I think about quite a few of the black married folks I know who married people they met in college around me/here most dont/didnt rush down the aisle as fast as they do in Texas or Georgia. College graduations werent followed by immeidate weddings. Folks seemed to shack a lil longer, follow each other around the country or wait til after grad school graduation. They also waited/ing longer to have babies after they married. I just turned 30. I'd say as of the last in the last 2 or 3 years I'm currently in a surge of weddings and in the next few years I'll likely be in a surge of baby showers. I think if I lived in the midwest or further south the phase I'm in happened durig early-mid twenties vs the late twneties to early thirties that seems to be most popular on my fb feed.

I couldnt live down souf. 24 is too damn young. When my bff's husband asked her parents for her hand at 24/25 her Nigerian parents told him NO. We didnt find out one of my closest girlfriends married at 26 until a year later when she had to drop out of Georgetown and go to therapy because she was getting a divorce. My family almost disowned my cousin and his parents tried to stop the engagement when they married at 24. Errybody was pissed or shaking their damn head Now wait til bout 28, everyone is smiling happy and ready to support with bells on. lol

Re: the bold none of that makes sense to me, lol. For tax purposes alone that isn't the wisest move. I don't do wifely things without wifely benefits...that's is the golden rule. No way would my family encourage me to follow some dude around the country that wasn't my husband. My cousin who met her husband in DC got engaged because she was moving to China and she let him know that either they went as a married couple or he didn't go. Shacking? Lord it was a huge secret that I lived with my husband before we got engaged. No one was to tell his grandmother. His parents only tolerated it because they already knew he planned to propose as soon as I graduated, which he did with 60 days. This was in 2004-5 So not that long ago.

My sister is also 30 and she will be the last of her high school friends to marry. She still has a few single college girl friends but they are a few yrs younger than she is. She turned down a proposal last year, but her new boyfriend is already talking engagement and she is , as she did not see it coming that fast. My sister will be the first in 2 generations to get married for the first time after 30. After this upcoming wedding there will be only 1 unmarried girl this generation ( actually, probably ever...besides my 12 yr old cousin) and she has been living with a guy that would marry her in a minute, but shes a semi-pro athlete so I don't see that happening for a while.

 

[barbiesocialite]

I dont think my marital approach applies to the majority of black women's decisions or circumstances for later marriage so i'll speak for myself...

I plan on marrrying a current or certified future millionaire.

I dont want to live in a single family home, clip coupons, shop on a budget or need financial aid to pay for my kids educations. I want a big arse house, part time nanny, regular housekeeper, a closet full of Neimans and live my life the way I deserve to live it. I'm going to get it. But when I look at the facts, observe other couples and calculate the number my best odds for achieving means that my hihgest likelihood of find a husband of my standards meant choossing my friends & social enviromnent wisely during my early twenties yet waiting until 29-40 for the husband.

When I look at most of the young marriers I'll go on to sound like an arsehole by judgementally saying majority wont ever come close whether they stay togehter or divorce. I can only think of 1 excpetion and 1 other possible exception. Good for them. Theyre happy so I'm happy for them. I'm not bout that middle-class life nor do I value serving time below my wants in hopes to just end up stable comfortable. I'm aiming high and shooting for the moon, a husband and a few cute children aint good enough so I'm living my life accordingly.


eta: yes, I know this is not the most likely common scenario or practical outlook for a lot of single black women. yes, its true the reason most arent married is because they have diffuclty finding a marriage minded men. But if or when they do they would probably happily find the husband they deeply desire. that makes me a lil sad. but its the reality of too many. I'm just sayin....that aint me.

 

[Femmefatal1981]

I dont think my marital approach applies to the majority of black women's decisions or circumstances for later marriage so i'll speak for myself...

I plan on marrrying a current or certified future millionaire.

I dont want to live in a single family home, clip coupons, shop on a budget or need financial aid to pay for my kids educations. I want a big arse house, part time nanny, regular housekeeper, a closet full of Neimans and live my life the way I deserve to live it. I'm going to get it. But when I look at the facts, observe other couples and calculate the number my best odds for achieving means that my hihgest likelihood of find a husband of my standards meant choossing my friends & social enviromnent wisely during my early twenties yet waiting until 29-40 for the husband.

When I look at most of the young marriers I'll go on to sound like an arsehole by judgementally saying majority wont ever come close whether they stay togehter or divorce. I can only think of 1 excpetion and 1 other possible exception. Good for them. Theyre happy so I'm happy for them. I'm not bout that middle-class life nor do I value serving time below my wants in hopes to just end up stable comfortable. I'm aiming high and shooting for the moon, a husband and a few cute children aint good enough so I'm living my life accordingly.


eta: yes, I know this is not the most likely common scenario or practical outlook for a lot of single black women. yes, its true the reason most arent married is because they have diffuclty finding a marriage minded men. But if or when they do they would probably happily find the husband they deeply desire. that makes me a lil sad. but its the reality of too many. I'm just sayin....that aint me.

I expect nothing less, lol. Carry on sistah...make me proud.

 

[barbiesocialite]

I expect nothing less, lol. Carry on sistah...make me proud.

@PretteePlease smiles

*queue the Mellodee Hobson dance*



I refuse to end up all mouth. a sista gotta make it happen. pray for me.

But g-d bless all the women that desire marriage of any kind. All women deserve to have a happy family and husband of their choice if they want it no matter how they prefer it to come.

 

[PretteePlease]

@PretteePlease smiles

*queue the Mellodee Hobson dance*



I refuse to end up all mouth. a sista gotta make it happen. pray for me.

I can't for the life of me understand how EVERY ONE OF MY SIBLINGS/STEPS IS MARRIED BUT I AM NOT I'm not counting my dad and his wife cause they don't count

As a woman who turned down 2 marriage proposals & has seen how these hoes ain't loyal I just can't see marrying avg Joe. If I have to settle I'm settling rich. I promise before hairboard and country I will would marry Frenchy (WHO IS BLACK) tomorrow because he is generationally rich I would marry him tomorrow at the harris county courthouse take klomid daily cause he already put 2-3kids on my hip. Later we could do it big

Sprinkles black love wealth marriage glitter on me and @barbiesocialite I am a GoalGolddigger and I don't apologize

 

[sgold04]

Before I got to the bold I was coming in here to ask why you thought you would meet a guy in grad school? The black men I know with more than a BA were locked down way before their MA/MS.

I actually know quite a few single men who are way past BAs and MBAs...they are in the heaux category though, I guess I thought academia would have more "serious" marriage-minded men.

 

[sgold04]

But most or a decent number of their friends aren't. And most of their male friends are similar to them in education and financial status. So if he's high quality you can bet his phone is full of high quality male friends.

As a married man he knows thats the only way to keep male friends around. His wife doesnt want single males around her married husband and only married women usually want to hang out with married women. So once they gets married there's suddenly pressure and a mad dash to get single friends married by both husband and wife. A new single male coworker or fresh divorce papers are like bat signals that somebody needs to get married ASAP. lol

This is why I say single friends keep you single.

Married friends will get you married. You dont have to try to find a husband they're going to voluntarily bring options to you until they bring the right one to you or you finally surrender and find a husband just like her.

More than half of my girlfriends are married. If theyre not married most have been engaged. I only have 2 friends who've never been one or the other. That said, I've spent the last 5 years dodging a good number of my girlfriends. Especially my best friend. They are more pressed, concerned about and invested in my marital status and finding my husband than I am. If I really wanted to get married I'd just start spending more time with them to increase my options and foster a marriage minded environment since married folks want everyone else to legally imprisoned by marriage just like them.

Single people dgaf. If you desire marriage around single chicks your on your own. They're not wives so theyre not invested in making other women wives either. This is why it baffles me when some women say they really desire a husband yet insist on surrounding themselves with other single people. well duh, Id imagine itd be difficult getting married when you're invested in and mostly interact with the exact opposite of what you want.

eta: my homegirl @Zaynab is perfect example of what single women deal with when they have married friends. Z is a typical meddling wife friend like most others. She acts like she's on a mission from g-d. When her best friend recently married you'd think she was the one walking down the aisle since takes credit for bringing her friend the husband. chick. mind your business.

I agree single friends can keep you single, but my experience is slightly different. About 2/3 of my close friends are married, most of the wives don't care for their husbands' friends and don't want their single friends to get caught up in shenanigans. I've spoken to their husbands about their circle of friends as well, and they say the same--either they think their friends are "beneath us" or their friends are still slangin' D all over town, and don't want to deal with the repercussions of a situationship gone awry. Interestingly, all the husbands REALLY like me (not in an inappropriate manner) to the point where I think they put my on a pedestal and are afraid that I'll be disappointed in anyone they set me up with.

Region has played the biggest role in my experience. I'm not mixxxxxed so Cali was a no go, I dated IR though. Philly was NOT what I was told it was (grad school), the black community is struggling, Ima leave it at that (another interesting fact, all the married BW I met in philly either married IR when young, were married to other women, or married hoteps, it's such an interesting place--this is the 25-35 group--there were also a few traditional BW BM couples, all of whom were transplants). I'm meeting a mixture of single and married people here in the DMV, the married people skew older, so I need to find that just-getting-married set and catch the wave of "my best friend is married now I have to find a wife" guys.

*of course I'm generalizing, there are married BW in Cali and such....if I just wanted a warm body, I could have a man...but I don't want to just marry anybody. I've seen enough dysfunction, and been through enough, to want more for myself, and choice of marriage partner is huuuuge in long-term contentment, and wealth/health/happiness outcomes for kids.

 

[barbiesocialite]

I agree single friends can keep you single, but my experience is slightly different. About 2/3 of my close friends are married, most of the wives don't care for their husbands' friends and don't want their single friends to get caught up in shenanigans. I've spoken to their husbands about their circle of friends as well, and they say the same--either they think their friends are "beneath us" or their friends are still slangin' D all over town, and don't want to deal with the repercussions of a situationship gone awry. Interestingly, all the husbands REALLY like me (not in an inappropriate manner) to the point where I think they put my on a pedestal and are afraid that I'll be disappointed in anyone they set me up with.

Region has played the biggest role in my experience. I'm not mixxxxxed so Cali was a no go, I dated IR though. Philly was NOT what I was told it was (grad school), the black community is struggling, Ima leave it at that (another interesting fact, all the married BW I met in philly either married IR when young, were married to other women, or married hoteps, it's such an interesting place--this is the 25-35 group--there were also a few traditional BW BM couples, all of whom were transplants). I'm meeting a mixture of single and married people here in the DMV, the married people skew older, so I need to find that just-getting-married set and catch the wave of "my best friend is married now I have to find a wife" guys.

*of course I'm generalizing, there are married BW in Cali and such....if I just wanted a warm body, I could have a man...but I don't want to just marry anybody. I've seen enough dysfunction, and been through enough, to want more for myself, and choice of marriage partner is huuuuge in long-term contentment, and wealth/health/happiness outcomes for kids.

Cali is my nightmare. The whole state is designed to create low self esteem if youre a black woman. If you're looking for a black husband to raise a proud black family. Welp. Good luck. If you're lucky you just might get 1 brown SIL or DIL but I wouldn't hold my breath ....

Seriously tho, I feel for you. I would rather move to Wisconsin, New York or overseas before touching that place as a single black woman. If Cali was the only place in the world with the a college or grad program in my desired field, I'd simply change my profession and find a new career path. My girlfriend hubby had long term business there but instead of moving with him she opted for getting two mortgages and flyer miles to support a long distance marriage traveling from Maryland twice a month because she said she refuses to raise a family there.

Sadly what youre saying and what I know of California is why Sanaa Lathan seems so depressing to me. If she lived on the East Coast Id be highly opptimistic she'll likely find a quality husband to match or upstage her status, Yale education and celebrity. No problem. But where she is, at her age and livin how shes livin her pics just look sad and pathetic. Ill be surprised if she marries well if at all cuz the odds are not in favor. future not lookin too bright. Ish is bleak man

More than other women, I am genuinely symapthetic to the single women on the board that express dating frustrations living in the west coast. That place is for white people and mexicans. being black should never have to be that stressful. Life is a gamble but living in California as a single black woman is playing high stakes, the house is likely to win. When it comes to life and your family, that's a game I don't want to play. So yea, glad you got away as fast as you did.

 

[Shiks]

Like Sway,I don't have the answers. I do think it is foolhardy to wait until all your options are exhausted. I come from a society where you marry at the stated age or thereabout. The people I know who married at that age were not blue collar and while not rolling in dough yet,they are doing well and their earning potential is increasing.

I think it also depends on your society. Mine has weddings pre 30.

 

[Dposh167]

I couldn't live over there either. I visited the west this summer with my SO and I was itching to go back to the east. Not that the east coast doesn't have their fair share of IR cuz they do. But that west coast is a whole notha game lol. I'll live with the snow

Cali is my nightmare. The whole state is designed to create low self esteem if youre a black woman. If you're looking for a black husband to raise a proud black family. Welp. Good luck. If you're lucky you just might get 1 brown SIL or DIL but I wouldn't hold my breath ....

Seriously tho, I feel for you. I would rather move to Wisconsin, New York or overseas before touching that place as a single black woman. If Cali was the only place in the world with the a college or grad program in my desired field, I'd simply change my profession and find a new career path. My girlfriend hubby had long term business there but instead of moving with him she opted for getting two mortgages and flyer miles to support a long distance marriage traveling from Maryland twice a month because she said she refuses to raise a family there.

Sadly what youre saying and what I know of California is why Sanaa Lathan seems so depressing to me. If she lived on the East Coast Id be highly opptimistic she'll likely find a quality husband to match or upstage her status, Yale education and celebrity. No problem. But where she is, at her age and livin how shes livin her pics just look sad and pathetic. Ill be surprised if she marries well if at all cuz the odds are not in favor. future not lookin too bright. Ish is bleak man

More than other women, I am genuinely symapthetic to the single women on the board that express dating frustrations living in the west coast. That place is for white people and mexicans. being black should never have to be that stressful. Life is a gamble but living in California as a single black woman is playing high stakes, the house is likely to win. When it comes to life and your family, that's a game I don't want to play. So yea, glad you got away as fast as you did.

 

[Femmefatal1981]

I actually know quite a few single men who are way past BAs and MBAs...they are in the heaux category though, I guess I thought academia would have more "serious" marriage-minded men.

Heaux's aside post undergrad pickings are slim. It's a simple numbers game, you are unlikely to ever be surrounded by that many potential mates again. I know getting your BA/BS and Mrs. is frowned upon around here but at the end of the day that's the option with the highest success rate in my experience.

Unless you are going Barbie's route...then you need a whole other game plan which I can only give anecdotes of what I've seen others do.

 

[sgold04]

Heaux's aside post undergrad pickings are slim. It's a simple numbers game, you are unlikely to ever be surrounded by that many potential mates again. I know getting your BA/BS and Mrs. is frowned upon around here but at the end of the day that's the option with the highest success rate in my experience.

Unless you are going Barbie's route...then you need a whole other game plan which I can only give anecdotes of what I've seen others do.

This.right.here. I wish I had wise women in my life to tell me these things late in high school. I went to school across the street from the only Black male serving institution in the U.S. It was like shooting fish in a barrel...

 

[Brwnbeauti]

eta: yes, I know this is not the most likely common scenario or practical outlook for a lot of single black women. yes, its true the reason most arent married is because they have diffuclty finding a marriage minded men. But if or when they do they would probably happily find the husband they deeply desire. that makes me a lil sad. but its the reality of too many. I'm just sayin....that aint me.

I think it's an excellent outlook. You should definitely be considering lifestyle wants/needs when you marry. Isn't money still the number one reason for divorces?

 

[ScorpioBeauty09]

I agree single friends can keep you single, but my experience is slightly different. About 2/3 of my close friends are married, most of the wives don't care for their husbands' friends and don't want their single friends to get caught up in shenanigans. I've spoken to their husbands about their circle of friends as well, and they say the same--either they think their friends are "beneath us" or their friends are still slangin' D all over town, and don't want to deal with the repercussions of a situationship gone awry. Interestingly, all the husbands REALLY like me (not in an inappropriate manner) to the point where I think they put my on a pedestal and are afraid that I'll be disappointed in anyone they set me up with.

Region has played the biggest role in my experience. I'm not mixxxxxed so Cali was a no go, I dated IR though. Philly was NOT what I was told it was (grad school), the black community is struggling, Ima leave it at that (another interesting fact, all the married BW I met in philly either married IR when young, were married to other women, or married hoteps, it's such an interesting place--this is the 25-35 group--there were also a few traditional BW BM couples, all of whom were transplants). I'm meeting a mixture of single and married people here in the DMV, the married people skew older, so I need to find that just-getting-married set and catch the wave of "my best friend is married now I have to find a wife" guys.

*of course I'm generalizing, there are married BW in Cali and such....if I just wanted a warm body, I could have a man...but I don't want to just marry anybody. I've seen enough dysfunction, and been through enough, to want more for myself, and choice of marriage partner is huuuuge in long-term contentment, and wealth/health/happiness outcomes for kids.

The first bolded rings true for me too. 2 of my 3 close friends are getting married in 2016 and one of them, she can't stand her FH's friends so no way would she try to set me up with one of them of the ones that are still single. And for good reason. I know the stories. The other one, she's known me for over a decade and knows the kind of men I'm interested in. The kind of people she runs with and the kind of people I run with do not mix.

As for the second bolded yeah BW do get married here LOL. But the ones who do usually marry white/Asian/Hispanic men, especially if they're educated. At least in NorCal, which is slightly better than SoCal IMO.

 

[UmSumayyah]

I dont think my marital approach applies to the majority of black women's decisions or circumstances for later marriage so i'll speak for myself...

I plan on marrrying a current or certified future millionaire.

I dont want to live in a single family home, clip coupons, shop on a budget or need financial aid to pay for my kids educations. I want a big arse house, part time nanny, regular housekeeper, a closet full of Neimans and live my life the way I deserve to live it. I'm going to get it. But when I look at the facts, observe other couples and calculate the number my best odds for achieving means that my hihgest likelihood of find a husband of my standards meant choossing my friends & social enviromnent wisely during my early twenties yet waiting until 29-40 for the husband.

When I look at most of the young marriers I'll go on to sound like an arsehole by judgementally saying majority wont ever come close whether they stay togehter or divorce. I can only think of 1 excpetion and 1 other possible exception. Good for them. Theyre happy so I'm happy for them. I'm not bout that middle-class life nor do I value serving time below my wants in hopes to just end up stable comfortable. I'm aiming high and shooting for the moon, a husband and a few cute children aint good enough so I'm living my life accordingly.


eta: yes, I know this is not the most likely common scenario or practical outlook for a lot of single black women. yes, its true the reason most arent married is because they have diffuclty finding a marriage minded men. But if or when they do they would probably happily find the husband they deeply desire. that makes me a lil sad. but its the reality of too many. I'm just sayin....that aint me.

It's not a common scenario for most women regardless of race. Who cares?

 

[DarkJoy]

Every time yall bring up my state wrt to dating I just wanna run out of work, pack my bags and chuck the deuces. Cuz yall are right.

I dont even have to go on a California rant this time. You did it for me.

Cali is my nightmare. The whole state is designed to create low self esteem if youre a black woman. If you're looking for a black husband to raise a proud black family. Welp. Good luck. If you're lucky you just might get 1 brown SIL or DIL but I wouldn't hold my breath ....

Seriously tho, I feel for you. I would rather move to Wisconsin, New York or overseas before touching that place as a single black woman. If Cali was the only place in the world with the a college or grad program in my desired field, I'd simply change my profession and find a new career path. My girlfriend hubby had long term business there but instead of moving with him she opted for getting two mortgages and flyer miles to support a long distance marriage traveling from Maryland twice a month because she said she refuses to raise a family there.

Sadly what youre saying and what I know of California is why Sanaa Lathan seems so depressing to me. If she lived on the East Coast Id be highly opptimistic she'll likely find a quality husband to match or upstage her status, Yale education and celebrity. No problem. But where she is, at her age and livin how shes livin her pics just look sad and pathetic. Ill be surprised if she marries well if at all cuz the odds are not in favor. future not lookin too bright. Ish is bleak man

More than other women, I am genuinely symapthetic to the single women on the board that express dating frustrations living in the west coast. That place is for white people and mexicans. being black should never have to be that stressful. Life is a gamble but living in California as a single black woman is playing high stakes, the house is likely to win. When it comes to life and your family, that's a game I don't want to play. So yea, glad you got away as fast as you did.

I agree single friends can keep you single, but my experience is slightly different. About 2/3 of my close friends are married, most of the wives don't care for their husbands' friends and don't want their single friends to get caught up in shenanigans. I've spoken to their husbands about their circle of friends as well, and they say the same--either they think their friends are "beneath us" or their friends are still slangin' D all over town, and don't want to deal with the repercussions of a situationship gone awry. Interestingly, all the husbands REALLY like me (not in an inappropriate manner) to the point where I think they put my on a pedestal and are afraid that I'll be disappointed in anyone they set me up with.

Region has played the biggest role in my experience. I'm not mixxxxxed so Cali was a no go, I dated IR though. Philly was NOT what I was told it was (grad school), the black community is struggling, Ima leave it at that (another interesting fact, all the married BW I met in philly either married IR when young, were married to other women, or married hoteps, it's such an interesting place--this is the 25-35 group--there were also a few traditional BW BM couples, all of whom were transplants). I'm meeting a mixture of single and married people here in the DMV, the married people skew older, so I need to find that just-getting-married set and catch the wave of "my best friend is married now I have to find a wife" guys.

*of course I'm generalizing, there are married BW in Cali and such....if I just wanted a warm body, I could have a man...but I don't want to just marry anybody. I've seen enough dysfunction, and been through enough, to want more for myself, and choice of marriage partner is huuuuge in long-term contentment, and wealth/health/happiness outcomes for kids.

 

[Nelli04]

I have no desire to get married right now and I am going to be 30 in a year.

Only 1 of my HS friends or friends I made in my early 20s is married. And this includes friends who are white, asian, black, or hispanic (of any race).

Some of my friends have been with the same guy for almost a decade and are just waiting for him to propose, others, like myself, can't find a guy to settle down with.

I live in Cali and I am becoming more and more aware of the fact that I will potentially need to date IR, but I still have not done it. Of the older friends I have made recently, most of them got married after 30 and started having kids at 32-34 on average.

 

[Mortons]

My friends are equally married, engaged, or dating for marriage so we are all in different stages. Marriage after college would have been a disaster for me. Was still trying to structure my life the way I wanted and learn more about myself. A person who marries me later on in the game is going to get a much better wife than a spouse would have if they had married me earlier on. I see the same in a lot of my friends as far as living and learning. For this reason, I dont see the benefits that come with marrying in late 20s or 30s.

I also dont see the point in trying to judge the marriage age and not the effect of the divorce rate for these same groups. Divorce is hard on women financially and socially. That needs to be taken into account for Black women, since a smaller fall will often send us and our kids into a lower SES.

 

[Cheleigh]

I have no desire to get married right now and I am going to be 30 in a year.

Only 1 of my HS friends or friends I made in my early 20s is married. And this includes friends who are white, asian, black, or hispanic (of any race).

Some of my friends have been with the same guy for almost a decade and are just waiting for him to propose, others, like myself, can't find a guy to settle down with.

I live in Cali and I am becoming more and more aware of the fact that I will potentially need to date IR, but I still have not done it. Of the older friends I have made recently, most of them got married after 30 and started having kids at 32-34 on average.

People with BA or higher education in Cali tend to marry later and have kids later than most of the country (regardless of ethnicity), generally. Most of the women in my mom's groups were between 29-38. We're the outliers though. Most people around the country have married and had kids long before these ages.

 

[BEAUTYU2U]

I already know I need to move. I know one married black couple my age. Everyone else just has kids. It's not enough black people here and I'm tired of looking at white people. White people are engaged or married by 21.

Sigh ... but for family reasons, I'm here for a bit longer.

 

[MsSanz92]

The OP, while packaged in a crass way is spot on. I'm only 23 years old and I can see very clearly that if I want to marry a like-minded equally yoked Black man, my pickings are slim. I live in NYC, so my options aren't as limited compared to other areas in the country, but the issue with a lot of educated Black men here and people in general is that people tend to get married later. Everyone is so career-driven, and getting married before your late 20s up here for college educated folks is not common and is seen as weird in many circles. Why would you want to cut your partying days short? I personally always saw myself getting married young (~25) and having at least one child before 30, but I really don't see it happening and I'm okay with that. I just hope that I'm in a LTR leading to marriage if I'm not already married by 30. 7 years can fly by so I guess I need to make some moves knowing how slow many Black men are to committing for marriage.

Most of my Black female friends are in their early-mid twenties and only two of them are in long term relationships one just got engaged to her college sweetheart and she's 23. I will also say region plays a lot into this because I went to school in the South, and I know quite a few of the Black women I went to school with in LTR/married to Black men. All of them, including my two friends in LTRs are from and their spouses are from the South and they also met their partners while we were in college as well. If you live up here in the North, people especially educated Black men have a Peter Pan complex and are too consumed with living the bachelor life until they're 40. I have no time to wait for their foolishness!

I date inter racially, but a lot of my friends are not interested in doing so. Also, some of my friends are open to having children out of wedlock, (mostly because they were a product of such), but I refuse, mostly because I was not a product of such. While the points made in the OP I personally agree with, it is unfair to pass the same standards to all Black women because quite frankly, not everyone wants that, nor will it be realistic for every Black woman. Not every Black women wants to get married before 30. Not every Black woman wants to get married AT ALL. That's okay, but I do think that there are some benefits to doing things in the order that the author mentioned. I honestly feel that if I do want to meet my wish of being either married or in a LTR leading to marriage by the time I'm 30, it'll be to someone outside of my race.

It just saddens me that so many beautiful educated BW are being robbed of the opportunity of having healthy relationships with BM that could lead to marriage during their late teens and 20s. I feel like in general, many Black women aren't exposed to healthy interactions between BW/BM from an early age, so we don't know what that looks like and how to deal with it. That explains partially why many of us are forced to settle for having child OOW thinking it will lead to marriage, chase after the few "eligible" Black men who have no interest in being tied down because they know the numbers are on their side, remain single, date/marry men who have a lot of baggage and/or are not on the same social level, or date interracially. Having large groups of Black men not willing to date/marry Black women is not normal or healthy. Having large groups of Black men who have no interest in or cannot financially support a marriage and family is not normal or healthy. As much as we as Black women have found these alternative ways of living our lives and surviving, it deviates from the normal/natural order of things. There have always been people who are outliers, people who have children OWW, people who never marry, etc. but when large portions of a group are forced to or choose to be an outlier, it's very problematic and counterproductive.

 

[Kurlee]

The OP, while packaged in a crass way is spot on. I'm only 23 years old and I can see very clearly that if I want to marry a like-minded equally yoked Black man, my pickings are slim. I live in NYC, so my options aren't as limited compared to other areas in the country, but the issue with a lot of educated Black men here and people in general is that people tend to get married later. Everyone is so career-driven, and getting married before your late 20s up here for college educated folks is not common and is seen as weird in many circles. Why would you want to cut your partying days short? I personally always saw myself getting married young (~25) and having at least one child before 30, but I really don't see it happening and I'm okay with that. I just hope that I'm in a LTR leading to marriage if I'm not already married by 30. 7 years can fly by so I guess I need to make some moves knowing how slow many Black men are to committing for marriage.

Most of my Black female friends are in their early-mid twenties and only two of them are in long term relationships one just got engaged to her college sweetheart and she's 23. I will also say region plays a lot into this because I went to school in the South, and I know quite a few of the Black women I went to school with in LTR/married to Black men. All of them, including my two friends in LTRs are from and their spouses are from the South and they also met their partners while we were in college as well. If you live up here in the North, people especially educated Black men have a Peter Pan complex and are too consumed with living the bachelor life until they're 40. I have no time to wait for their foolishness!

I date inter racially, but a lot of my friends are not interested in doing so. Also, some of my friends are open to having children out of wedlock, (mostly because they were a product of such), but I refuse, mostly because I was not a product of such. While the points made in the OP I personally agree with, it is unfair to pass the same standards to all Black women because quite frankly, not everyone wants that, nor will it be realistic for every Black woman. Not every Black women wants to get married before 30. Not every Black woman wants to get married AT ALL. That's okay, but I do think that there are some benefits to doing things in the order that the author mentioned. I honestly feel that if I do want to meet my wish of being either married or in a LTR leading to marriage by the time I'm 30, it'll be to someone outside of my race.

It just saddens me that so many beautiful educated BW are being robbed of the opportunity of having healthy relationships with BM that could lead to marriage during their late teens and 20s. I feel like in general, many Black women aren't exposed to healthy interactions between BW/BM from an early age, so we don't know what that looks like and how to deal with it. That explains partially why many of us are forced to settle for having child OOW thinking it will lead to marriage, chase after the few "eligible" Black men who have no interest in being tied down because they know the numbers are on their side, remain single, date/marry men who have a lot of baggage and/or are not on the same social level, or date interracially. Having large groups of Black men not willing to date/marry Black women is not normal or healthy. Having large groups of Black men who have no interest in or cannot financially support a marriage and family is not normal or healthy. As much as we as Black women have found these alternative ways of living our lives and surviving, it deviates from the normal/natural order of things. There have always been people who are outliers, people who have children OWW, people who never marry, etc. but when large portions of a group are forced to or choose to be an outlier, it's very problematic and counterproductive.

All of this. I keep trying to think of what can BW do to find their fulfillment in whichever form(s) they may come in.

 

[theRaven]

The OP, while packaged in a crass way is spot on. I'm only 23 years old and I can see very clearly that if I want to marry a like-minded equally yoked Black man, my pickings are slim. I live in NYC, so my options aren't as limited compared to other areas in the country, but the issue with a lot of educated Black men here and people in general is that people tend to get married later. Everyone is so career-driven, and getting married before your late 20s up here for college educated folks is not common and is seen as weird in many circles. Why would you want to cut your partying days short? I personally always saw myself getting married young (~25) and having at least one child before 30, but I really don't see it happening and I'm okay with that. I just hope that I'm in a LTR leading to marriage if I'm not already married by 30. 7 years can fly by so I guess I need to make some moves knowing how slow many Black men are to committing for marriage.

Most of my Black female friends are in their early-mid twenties and only two of them are in long term relationships one just got engaged to her college sweetheart and she's 23. I will also say region plays a lot into this because I went to school in the South, and I know quite a few of the Black women I went to school with in LTR/married to Black men. All of them, including my two friends in LTRs are from and their spouses are from the South and they also met their partners while we were in college as well. If you live up here in the North, people especially educated Black men have a Peter Pan complex and are too consumed with living the bachelor life until they're 40. I have no time to wait for their foolishness!

I date inter racially, but a lot of my friends are not interested in doing so. Also, some of my friends are open to having children out of wedlock, (mostly because they were a product of such), but I refuse, mostly because I was not a product of such. While the points made in the OP I personally agree with, it is unfair to pass the same standards to all Black women because quite frankly, not everyone wants that, nor will it be realistic for every Black woman. Not every Black women wants to get married before 30. Not every Black woman wants to get married AT ALL. That's okay, but I do think that there are some benefits to doing things in the order that the author mentioned. I honestly feel that if I do want to meet my wish of being either married or in a LTR leading to marriage by the time I'm 30, it'll be to someone outside of my race.

It just saddens me that so many beautiful educated BW are being robbed of the opportunity of having healthy relationships with BM that could lead to marriage during their late teens and 20s. I feel like in general, many Black women aren't exposed to healthy interactions between BW/BM from an early age, so we don't know what that looks like and how to deal with it. That explains partially why many of us are forced to settle for having child OOW thinking it will lead to marriage, chase after the few "eligible" Black men who have no interest in being tied down because they know the numbers are on their side, remain single, date/marry men who have a lot of baggage and/or are not on the same social level, or date interracially. Having large groups of Black men not willing to date/marry Black women is not normal or healthy. Having large groups of Black men who have no interest in or cannot financially support a marriage and family is not normal or healthy. As much as we as Black women have found these alternative ways of living our lives and surviving, it deviates from the normal/natural order of things. There have always been people who are outliers, people who have children OWW, people who never marry, etc. but when large portions of a group are forced to or choose to be an outlier, it's very problematic and counterproductive.

The bolded is extremely true and worrying. I can see this being an even bigger problem in the future. Large groups of unmarried men without the responsibility of a wife and and/or family are very dangerous to the group and society at large.

 

[Layluh]

The bolded is extremely true and worrying. I can see this being an even bigger problem in the future. Large groups of unmarried men without the responsibility of a wife and and/or family are very dangerous to the group and society at large.

Why do you say this? I'm not disagreeing...just want to see your thought process.

 

[theRaven]

Why do you say this? I'm not disagreeing...just want to see your thought process.

I cannot give you exact dates and articles right now (as I'm typing an essay I've been avoiding for a while ) but for now I'll just go off what I remember from history class and my own view of female and male dynamics.

A particular moment/event in history class that I recall (Medieval western Europe) when women were expected to remain chase and pure until marriage this caused a big hoopla for the younger men. Why? Older men had access to these women because of social, political, and financial capital. Of course marriages between women and men of the same age occurred but it wasn't that common. The men usually had years ahead of their future wife because they had to prove their worthiness to care for her and the potential children. When economic times hit hard young men were extremely desperate and horny so rapes started to frequently occur. So to staff off this horrific increase in rapes society pushed for younger men to have access to marriage.

In modern times right now India and China both ancient civilizations with a disturbing common trait of practicing female infanticide. India seems to be a much worse place for women currently than in previous histories (I have another theory as why that is but that's another topic). The violence women face in India seems to be on par with the violence women face in Saudi Arabia and Pakistan but India's democratic and allows women to be politically open and advance in government so what gives? India just like China faces a female population shortage that is very severe and crippling to their very society if it wishes to advance and not die out. Indian womens main violent harassment cases of acid being hurled at them, I believe are the direct result of many mens hatred of women tied with the fact that they may be wifeless in the near future. It's a cycle of even more horrid violence. It's the very nature of angry and lonely men that overvalue their sexual needs: "If I cannot have you then I will disfigure you or rape you (tarnishing the perceived value of the girl), break you (spiritually, mentally) and even kill you so no one else can have you."

Male and female dynamics:

Men protect women is a key statement I hear a lot. But what are men protecting women from...
The effects of living in a patriarchal society

• other vile men in the community who may harm and commit acts of violence against women
• the man-made economic hardships of being a woman, who is valued less therefore payed less
• men outside the society that when war comes will subject women to violence

Men protect what they hold valuable and dear to them ie their wives and children. Of course men have mothers, aunts, grandmothers, and friends but its not at the same level of their wives and children. Those same mothers, aunts, grandmothers, and friends of course theoretically would have male protectors themselves (husbands). Men of course in large groups without the responsibility of a wife and or would not protect the women not directly valuable to them. Men in large groups even with access to sex on a somewhat reoccurring basis do not value women as whole unless they are directly tied to a women through marriage. (read any male rights activist and pua blogs/forum)

In short: women civilize men... as a group of course women have the potential to influence the men in the society to protect and raise up womens value. These same men do so by having direct ties to women they value and hold dear to them.

 

[Honey Bee]

I cannot give you exact dates and articles right now (as I'm typing an essay I've been avoiding for a while ) but for now I'll just go off what I remember from history class and my own view of female and male dynamics.

A particular moment/event in history class that I recall (Medieval western Europe) when women were expected to remain chase and pure until marriage this caused a big hoopla for the younger men. Why? Older men had access to these women because of social, political, and financial capital. Of course marriages between women and men of the same age occurred but it wasn't that common. The men usually had years ahead of their future wife because they had to prove their worthiness to care for her and the potential children. When economic times hit hard young men were extremely desperate and horny so rapes started to frequently occur. So to staff off this horrific increase in rapes society pushed for younger men to have access to marriage.

In modern times right now India and China both ancient civilizations with a disturbing common trait of practicing female infanticide. India seems to be a much worse place for women currently than in previous histories (I have another theory as why that is but that's another topic). The violence women face in India seems to be on par with the violence women face in Saudi Arabia and Pakistan but India's democratic and allows women to be politically open and advance in government so what gives? India just like China faces a female population shortage that is very severe and crippling to their very society if it wishes to advance and not die out. Indian womens main violent harassment cases of acid being hurled at them, I believe are the direct result of many mens hatred of women tied with the fact that they may be wifeless in the near future. It's a cycle of even more horrid violence. It's the very nature of angry and lonely men that overvalue their sexual needs: "If I cannot have you then I will disfigure you or rape you (tarnishing the perceived value of the girl), break you (spiritually, mentally) and even kill you so no one else can have you."

Male and female dynamics:

Men protect women is a key statement I hear a lot. But what are men protecting women from...
The effects of living in a patriarchal society

• other vile men in the community who may harm and commit acts of violence against women
• the man-made economic hardships of being a woman, who is valued less therefore payed less
• men outside the society that when war comes will subject women to violence

Men protect what they hold valuable and dear to them ie their wives and children. Of course men have mothers, aunts, grandmothers, and friends but its not at the same level of their wives and children. Those same mothers, aunts, grandmothers, and friends of course theoretically would have male protectors themselves (husbands). Men of course in large groups without the responsibility of a wife and or would not protect the women not directly valuable to them. Men in large groups even with access to sex on a somewhat reoccurring basis do not value women as whole unless they are directly tied to a women through marriage. (read any male rights activist and pua blogs/forum)

In short: women civilize men... as a group of course women have the potential to influence the men in the society to protect and raise up womens value. These same men do so by having direct ties to women they value and hold dear to them.

 

[Galadriel]

In short: women civilize men...

How true!

OAN, are we also accounting for things like culture/sub-culture and religion in terms of marriage? It was mentioned earlier in the thread the whole BA/BS then MRS thing, and it was interesting (when I was an undergrad) to observe how big of a thing the MRS was at the Evangelical college I attended. This of course does not make the couple immune to divorce, etc. but I just found the environment very fascinating, how the young women were very excited and into finding their FH's during college and many of them got married right around college graduation or shortly thereafter.

My foremost thought in going to college was getting my degree and getting a job so I wouldn't be impoverished I just couldn't believe how some girls went to college on a mission to snag a husband in addition to a degree. Depending on your views, it may or may not be such a bad strategy?

Through a turn of events and connections, I ended up meeting, dating, and eventually marrying my DH at 24 (we dated for about a year before he proposed).

Fellow Cali ladies, I understand where you're coming from.

 

[Ipanema]

I'm sure most women want to get married at a younger, more ideal age, but it's hard to do when you have to factor in a whole other human being who is supposed to do the proposing. This other person also has to be marriage material. Unless there's some kind of instruction or solution (How to Get Married 1o1), then what's the point?

 

[LoveisYou]

Most all my WHITE WOMEN bosses got married after 35...like literally all of them. I'm talking about since I started working in firms at 21.

 

[RocStar]

That explains partially why many of us are forced to settle for having child OOW thinking it will lead to marriage, chase after the few "eligible" Black men who have no interest in being tied down because they know the numbers are on their side, remain single, date/marry men who have a lot of baggage and/or are not on the same social level, or date interracially.

Forced to settle? Maybe that explains partially why many of us DO settle, but I don't see it as being forced.

Having large groups of Black men not willing to date/marry Black women is not normal or healthy. Having large groups of Black men who have no interest in or cannot financially support a marriage and family is not normal or healthy. As much as we as Black women have found these alternative ways of living our lives and surviving, it deviates from the normal/natural order of things. There have always been people who are outliers, people who have children OWW, people who never marry, etc. but when large portions of a group are forced to or choose to be an outlier, it's very problematic and counterproductive.

I don't know if I agree with the notion of there being large groups of Black men not wanting/willing to date or marry a Black woman. The statistics/data don't really support that.