Who has Actually Given Up on Black Men...What Did it for You?

[Shimmie]

I disagree. It's my understanding that the trend of "bad black men" stems from the unfortunate lack of male role models in so many black families. I understand that this trend began as a by-product of the social welfare system and mushroomed from there. I think we need to understand that that it is difficult for women to raise men. We don't know how they think and oftentimes we don't have the same authority with men. I think the reason why you have so many women doing well, is because mothers understand their female children and are better able to identify pitfalls that their girls will face, because they faced them too. It's harder to do that with boys. Boys need fathers (or father figures) who are active in their lives. Too many black men have abdicated that role. First, because they had too and later because they didn't learn any different.

It's the trend for us to expect black women to be mother, father, pastor, teacher, etc etc. But it's not possible. We are just women (we're great but not omnipotent).

What you are speaking is so true. I raised a son and a daughter. They are blessed and are doing extremely well...NOW.

Look at the parallels with your post. My daughter thrived in school. She was always the 'good' girl...actually the 'good child' ... the one who never gave me any trouble. She was seldom punished; all it took was a minor scolding or no TV and that took care of the issues in discipline with her. Today, she still flourishes but without a struggle.

On the other hand, my son was the 'class clown' and whatever else he could do to draw attention and 'trouble.' I spent more time in school with him because of disciplinary issues than for special school events.

I dreaded each time the phone would ring. He wasn't a 'bad' boy, he just ddin't have what / whom he needed for guidance. There was no 'father' figure other than my dad, his paternal grand dad, my brother-in-law and a few 'older' family members. But there was no steady consistancy with their involvement in his life. My ex-husband was a drug addict and it kept the whole family in turmoil. Hence my son fell victim and suffered the lack of a having a man in his life.

Only prayer and the absolute Grace of God spared my son from disaster.

He's very successful now. But what you shared is too true and too close to home for me personally. I DID NOT know how to raise my son. I didn't have a clue even to have 'a clue'. And he did suffer greatly for it as young boy and teenager because I had no knowledge of manhood.

Thank you for sharing your post. It reminds me all the more of how blessed I truly am. I wish you blessings as well.

 

[zora]

All these dead beat black men must have been raised by our mothers, our aunties etc. I hope - for the next generation's sake that we are very careful in how we raise our sons.

I think it's impossible to take black women out of the context when talking about bad black men. We are the number one care takers of black boys. So it must have been something the older generation did wrong...

Yup. ITA..........

 

[Shimmie]

You didn't offend anyone, it was long overdue and needed to be said.

Thanks Adrian. ((( hugs )))

 

[Shimmie]

Preach sister Preach.

And all the people say AMEN!!!.

((( hugs )))

 

[MuseofTroy]

You reference the staggering statistics regarding dysfunction in the black male community almost as if its irrelevant. Of course choice plays a role in those statistics. Very few people are forced to sell drugs or engage in other negative behaviors, and in today's America very few people NEED to drop out of school at a young age, but people do. Now then, once these choices have been made, they have consequences. You choose to surround yourself with good people. That is an excellent choice. But let's take this a step further. Let's assume that the statistics that we have all been hearing for years are correct and eligible black women outnumber black men. Let's also assume that these eligible black woman choose only to date, socialize with and marry eligible black men. Well, I'm sure we can all do the math, some of these eligible "talented, educated, on point" black women, will not get black men (we are also assuming that bigamy, extramarital affairs, and other forms of cheating are frowned upon). It's just numbers.

Of course, maybe you don't accept the fact that eligible black women outnumber black men. If you don't accept that basic assumption, then I can understand where you are coming from. But nothing in your many posts leads me to believe this. So, for awhile I was left scratching my head over this, and then I reread your post. The good black women that you mentioned found "good men", not good black men. Now the real question is was this deliberate or Freudian slip. Interesting.

Actually it wasn't a Freudian slip but let me rephrase. Most of the women I know are married to great black men. I can count on one hand how many woman are married to men outside of their race and it wasn't because they didn't have options. Those men God intended for them to be with happen to be someone of another race.

 

[Shimmie]

Shimmie, you didn't offend me at all. I really appreciate your candid response and I actually love a healthy debate!

In response to some of your comments I can understand how my opinions can be construed as snobbery or even analogous to how racist whites think about black people. However the truth of the matter is that I was trying to showcase my experience to show that it is utterly ridiculous to give up on a whole group of men based on one's limited interaction.

On the other hand maybe I am a snob. I have high standards and I am very discriminating about who I associate with. Mind you this doesn't mean I live inside of a happy box oblivious to the world around me. I recognize that the black community needs a lot of work and a lot of our men/women are struggling to make it. However, from my observations a lot of people are in their situations because of bad choices. We can only put so much blame on the system and blaming whites for historical grievances but at the end of the day we all have choices to make and how we choose to conduct ourselves. Individuals give way too much power to outside forces and how they impact their lives.

No one is perfect. We all make mistakes and the best course of action once they have been made is to learn from them and move on. With that being said, my circle is not perfect. However I think what I love the most about my close friends and our “clique” is that we hold each other accountable for our actions and have high expectations for each other. I think black people get with the program and even if you can’t change the world you can start with your own life.

Forgive me for going off on a tangent but as for black women finding “good black men” they are out there despite statistics and what propaganda is being spewed out there by the media and society in general.

Thanks, I'm glad no offense was taken. This is a good place to just 'vent' it all out and still be 'sisters' (and our precious brother).

Starbuck's anyone...? I have a pocket full of money...loose change added up from 3 months. Too lazy to empty my coat pockets. By the weight of my coat, I know I have at least $20 in coins....

 

[MuseofTroy]

You reference the staggering statistics regarding dysfunction in the black male community almost as if its irrelevant. Of course choice plays a role in those statistics. Very few people are forced to sell drugs or engage in other negative behaviors, and in today's America very few people NEED to drop out of school at a young age, but people do. Now then, once these choices have been made, they have consequences. You choose to surround yourself with good people. That is an excellent choice. But let's take this a step further. Let's assume that the statistics that we have all been hearing for years are correct and eligible black women outnumber black men. Let's also assume that these eligible black woman choose only to date, socialize with and marry eligible black men. Well, I'm sure we can all do the math, some of these eligible "talented, educated, on point" black women, will not get black men (we are also assuming that bigamy, extramarital affairs, and other forms of cheating are frowned upon). It's just numbers.

Of course, maybe you don't accept the fact that eligible black women outnumber black men. If you don't accept that basic assumption, then I can understand where you are coming from. But nothing in your many posts leads me to believe this. So, for awhile I was left scratching my head over this, and then I reread your post. The good black women that you mentioned found "good men", not good black men. Now the real question is was this deliberate or Freudian slip. Interesting.

Honestly despite whatever statistics may exist out there I don't believe that the number of eligible black women outnumber black man. The way this discussion is going some of us are acting like all black women are just so on point when in fact that is not true. I've met several black women even with JDs, PhDs MBAs etc…who would NOT make a suitable partner. Education alone isn't the only factor that determines whether or not someone would be a desirable partner. There are a lot of black woman, as well as men who lack class, etiquette, have mental issues, and overall don't take care of themselves. I’m not disregarding the statistics but those are just numbers and don’t evaluate other factors such as lifestyle, personality traits, location, and preferences.

 

[Crackers Phinn]

My comments are going to be off-topic but....... I think there's an awful lot of sticking your head in the sand going on in the Black community. For the last twenty years our community has had its own version of don't ask don't tell, and where has it gotten us? Black women have the lowest marriage rate, the highest rate of children out of wedlock (no judgment) fastest growing community infected with AIDs....etc. etc. What will it take for us to wise up? Black women dropping dead in the streets?

I'm sorry, but it's time to call a spade a spade. Yes, there are a number of wonderful black men (my Daddy is a wonderful man too, and my brothers have also managed to stay out of jailerplexed ), but bottom lining it for you...today, they are the slim minority.

We can play wish upon a star for as long as we want to (I'm just putting that out into the universe), but that is not going to solve the problems that are DESTROYING the black community. God helps those who help themselves, and for that reason I admire women who vote with their feet. If more of our successful, educated, highly sought after black women did that, maybe it would have a trickle down effect. Because right now, too many women are putting up with BS, just so they can say that they've managed to hunt down the elusive black man.

So....have I decided to give up on black men? I truly wonder why we care so much. Based on the number of times I see black women described by other black women on this board as bitter, jealous, triflin, special, etc etc, with little or no provocation, it's clear to me that we find it very easy to give up on black women.

I have nothing to add, just wanted to give props to this post.

 

[MzLady78]

Honestly despite whatever statistics may exist out there I don't believe that the number of eligible black women outnumber black man. The way this discussion is going some of us are acting like all black women are just so on point when in fact that is not true. I've met several black women even with JDs, PhDs MBAs etc…who would NOT make a suitable partner. Education alone isn't the only factor that determines whether or not someone would be a desirable partner. There are a lot of black woman, as well as men who lack class, etiquette, have mental issues, and overall don't take care of themselves. I’m not disregarding the statistics but those are just numbers and don’t evaluate other factors such as lifestyle, personality traits, location, and preferences.

This is very, very true.

To be honest, I was very disheartened with the state of Black women as well until I came to this forum. So many women on here are doing big things, have high moral standards, are extremely intelligent and well-spoken. It makes me really proud.

And even the ones who aren't where they want to be or are struggling (like myself) are taking the necessary steps to acheive their goals.

I don't see enough of this IRL, unfortunately.

 

[Crackers Phinn]

You reference the staggering statistics regarding dysfunction in the black male community almost as if its irrelevant. Of course choice plays a role in those statistics. Very few people are forced to sell drugs or engage in other negative behaviors, and in today's America very few people NEED to drop out of school at a young age, but people do. Now then, once these choices have been made, they have consequences. You choose to surround yourself with good people. That is an excellent choice. But let's take this a step further. Let's assume that the statistics that we have all been hearing for years are correct and eligible black women outnumber black men. Let's also assume that these eligible black woman choose only to date, socialize with and marry eligible black men. Well, I'm sure we can all do the math, some of these eligible "talented, educated, on point" black women, will not get black men (we are also assuming that bigamy, extramarital affairs, and other forms of cheating are frowned upon). It's just numbers.

Of course, maybe you don't accept the fact that eligible black women outnumber black men. If you don't accept that basic assumption, then I can understand where you are coming from. But nothing in your many posts leads me to believe this. So, for awhile I was left scratching my head over this, and then I reread your post. The good black women that you mentioned found "good men", not good black men. Now the real question is was this deliberate or Freudian slip. Interesting.

Ok, I see now that I'm going to have to go through and read all your old posts.

 

[mychai]

Honestly despite whatever statistics may exist out there I don't believe that the number of eligible black women outnumber black man. The way this discussion is going some of us are acting like all black women are just so on point when in fact that is not true. I've met several black women even with JDs, PhDs MBAs etc…who would NOT make a suitable partner. Education alone isn't the only factor that determines whether or not someone would be a desirable partner. There are a lot of black woman, as well as men who lack class, etiquette, have mental issues, and overall don't take care of themselves. I’m not disregarding the statistics but those are just numbers and don’t evaluate other factors such as lifestyle, personality traits, location, and preferences.

That hasn't been my experience, but we obviously move in different circles or maybe we just view men and women differently. But let's be real. We're not simply talking education here, are we? Certainly black women are doing better than men in that area, but we are also talking about success in the work force, family life, societal involvement, etc. etc. By just about every measurable marker, black women are beating black men (assuming you believe the statistics, which you have said you don't). THAT is why you keep hearing people bleat about black men, because black men AS A GROUP are behind. Now I can't tell you if every black woman who is performing at or above societal standards in these measurable areas has a good head on her shoulders. But again, let's be honest.....if you have 100 black women who have the basics and 75 black men who have the basics (and I think this ratio is generous), even if 50% of the black women are messed up in the head, presumably at least 50% of the men are messed up in the head as well. So... you are left with the same ratio. Even if we say that black men who have reached this level are less likely to be socially retarded (I'm not sure why we would say that) it is very unlikely that black women are so messed up that the number of eligible black women has dwindled to the point that every good black woman can find a good black man.

So yes education isn't everything, but I'm going to guess that with your high standards, you're not looking at any man who didn't complete high school unless he is extraordinary. Similarly, staying out of jail, that's not everything either, but between you and me, a criminal record is going to be a deal breaker where I'm concerned.

This really isn't as complicated as you are making it. It's numbers.

 

[Summer_Rain]

I disagree. It's my understanding that the trend of "bad black men" stems from the unfortunate lack of male role models in so many black families. I understand that this trend began as a by-product of the social welfare system and mushroomed from there. I think we need to understand that that it is difficult for women to raise men. We don't know how they think and oftentimes we don't have the same authority with men. I think the reason why you have so many women doing well, is because mothers understand their female children and are better able to identify pitfalls that their girls will face, because they faced them too. It's harder to do that with boys. Boys need fathers (or father figures) who are active in their lives. Too many black men have abdicated that role. First, because they had too and later because they didn't learn any different.

It's the trend for us to expect black women to be mother, father, pastor, teacher, etc etc. But it's not possible. We are just women (we're great but not omnipotent).

This is so on point! We discussed similiar in a thread the other day "A whole generation of black men are lost" (or something to that effect).

 

[Summer_Rain]

Honestly despite whatever statistics may exist out there I don't believe that the number of eligible black women outnumber black man. The way this discussion is going some of us are acting like all black women are just so on point when in fact that is not true. I've met several black women even with JDs, PhDs MBAs etc…who would NOT make a suitable partner. Education alone isn't the only factor that determines whether or not someone would be a desirable partner. There are a lot of black woman, as well as men who lack class, etiquette, have mental issues, and overall don't take care of themselves. I’m not disregarding the statistics but those are just numbers and don’t evaluate other factors such as lifestyle, personality traits, location, and preferences.

Hey Muse. While I don't want to speak for Sea, I don't think that's what she meant in saying that the number of eligible black men & women outnumber each other.

Certainly education IS a factor, but with education comes other things deemed socially "acceptable" for an upward bound woman looking for a life partner. If you look at education as a basic indication of economic status, or at the very least - potential, lifestyle, personality traits and the other things you mentioned. I agree that the numbers outweigh each other.

There have been a few threads where women with advanced degrees spoke to their preference for men with similar academic achievements. Of course there were those who said it wouldn't matter, BUT I think the reality is the higher achieving the woman (by societal norms), the higher her standards in a mate are going to be.

So with the stats showing that black men as a group are performing on a lower level....well, the math - pickins is slim amongst black men.

I'm glad to know that your friends had no problems finding suitable partners - but look at the staggering number of SINGLE and SUCCESSFUL black women who haven't been as fortunate.

 

[ambergirl]

....

 

[dannie]

This is very, very true.

To be honest, I was very disheartened with the state of Black women as well until I came to this forum. So many women on here are doing big things, have high moral standards, are extremely intelligent and well-spoken. It makes me really proud.

And even the ones who aren't where they want to be or are struggling (like myself) are taking the necessary steps to acheive their goals.

I don't see enough of this IRL, unfortunately.

ITA ...............

 

[MuseofTroy]

Hey Muse. While I don't want to speak for Sea, I don't think that's what she meant in saying that the number of eligible black men & women outnumber each other.

Certainly education IS a factor, but with education comes other things deemed socially "acceptable" for an upward bound woman looking for a life partner. If you look at education as a basic indication of economic status, or at the very least - potential, lifestyle, personality traits and the other things you mentioned. I agree that the numbers outweigh each other.

There have been a few threads where women with advanced degrees spoke to their preference for men with similar academic achievements. Of course there were those who said it wouldn't matter, BUT I think the reality is the higher achieving the woman (by societal norms), the higher her standards in a mate are going to be.

So with the stats showing that black men as a group are performing on a lower level....well, the math - pickins is slim amongst black men.

I'm glad to know that your friends had no problems finding suitable partners - but look at the staggering number of SINGLE and SUCCESSFUL black women who haven't been as fortunate.

Ladies I get what you are saying. Based on sheer numbers alone there is a problem but is “giving” up the answer? As women we do have the power to force the men in our lives to live up to our expectations. This phenomenon we are talking about regarding black men being overrepresented in prison yet underrepresented in educational institutions all comes down to the standards we have for each other. Do we hold our children accountable for their grades and performance? Are we hooking up with men who we know are not conducive to our economic, mental, spiritual, and physical well being? To me this is all a cycle that can be broken if we as a community had better standards and individuals start holding each other accountable.

We can debate on this board until we are blue in the face but what are you doing in your personal life to know you are not contributing to the problem? To me when selecting a mate it isn’t just about love. My approach would be looking at a potential partner like a business. Would you invest in something that has a history of bad performance? Does this individual show behavioral patterns that may end up hurting you and your family in the long run? I honestly don’t think women think of those things when they decide to lay with someone or reproduce children.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not blaming black women for the condition of our communities but I would like to think before someone decides to get pregnant by a man you need to examine their character. Let’s say the relationship doesn’t work out, will he still be man enough to participate in raising your children? To me those basic foundations are lacking because kids and young men of our generation (ages 21-30) are not being raised to conduct themselves with integrity or be responsible.

But on the positive note, numbers aside, there are a lot of good black men out there who would make amazing fathers and husbands. What’s ironic is that a lot of them often debate amongst themselves about the lack of quality black women out there so who knows…

 

[mychai]

Hey Muse. While I don't want to speak for Sea, I don't think that's what she meant in saying that the number of eligible black men & women outnumber each other.

Certainly education IS a factor, but with education comes other things deemed socially "acceptable" for an upward bound woman looking for a life partner. If you look at education as a basic indication of economic status, or at the very least - potential, lifestyle, personality traits and the other things you mentioned. I agree that the numbers outweigh each other.

There have been a few threads where women with advanced degrees spoke to their preference for men with similar academic achievements. Of course there were those who said it wouldn't matter, BUT I think the reality is the higher achieving the woman (by societal norms), the higher her standards in a mate are going to be.

So with the stats showing that black men as a group are performing on a lower level....well, the math - pickins is slim amongst black men.

I'm glad to know that your friends had no problems finding suitable partners - but look at the staggering number of SINGLE and SUCCESSFUL black women who haven't been as fortunate.

That's exactly what I'm trying to say. Thanks.

 

[mychai]

Preach sea1980!

If you just look at the number of black men incarcerated, on parole, or on probation it's staggering, and in some cities I've heard it's close to 50%! Just on sheer numbers, there are more of us who are out and about who don't have criminal records, regardlesss of what mental shape we're in!

I spent several years of my professional life defending the rights of black men who have been unfairly churned through the criminal justice system, so I know not all of them are in there because they're "bad" or even guilty. However, I also had to come to grips with the fact that even taking this into account, for the last 20-30 years there seems to be a serious decline in the "quality" of our men. I mean we have ALWAYS been poor, we've ALWAYS been discriminated against, our men have ALWAYS been treated as less than by the larger society, yet the men of my father's generation, who had it much, much, much worse than men today were, in my opinion, of much higher calibar.

To me that's the good news. That means that what ever is going on is not intrinsic to our community; there is the possibility of change. But the question for me is what can we do to get our black men back on track. I don't think we as women can do it alone. I think it needs to come from within the community of black men, who want to hold themselves to a higher standard in all aspects of their lives.

So getting back to the original question. I don't think any of us have "given up" on black men. However some of us are not necessary seeing them as potential partners. To me those are two different things.

Heck, maybe if more sisters cut them brothers off they might actually change! You know men will do anything for puddy.

I think this is exactly right. You can't change another person, it has to come from within.

 

[mychai]

Ladies I get what you are saying. Based on sheer numbers alone there is a problem but is “giving” up the answer? As women we do have the power to force the men in our lives to live up to our expectations. This phenomenon we are talking about regarding black men being overrepresented in prison yet underrepresented in educational institutions all comes down to the standards we have for each other. Do we hold our children accountable for their grades and performance? Are we hooking up with men who we know are not conducive to our economic, mental, spiritual, and physical well being? To me this is all a cycle that can be broken if we as a community had better standards and individuals start holding each other accountable.

I think I understand what you're saying. I also think that accountability comes in many forms. When I meet a grown man, I'm looking to become a wife (I'm not embarassed to say it) not a mother. I understand that during the course of the relationship we will both school each other on little things, but there are some character flaws that can't be changed and I'm not going to deal with it. I will leave that pleasure to another woman. I too am holding men accountable, I'm also suffering a little less.

We can debate on this board until we are blue in the face but what are you doing in your personal life to know you are not contributing to the problem? To me when selecting a mate it isn’t just about love. My approach would be looking at a potential partner like a business. Would you invest in something that has a history of bad performance? Does this individual show behavioral patterns that may end up hurting you and your family in the long run? I honestly don’t think women think of those things when they decide to lay with someone or reproduce children.

This is a sensible approach, but how does this relate to the issue of some black women prefering to forgo 'bad black men'? We seem to be saying the same thing. Steer clear of the lemons. I don't really think this thread is about women in bad relationships. I think this thread is about women who are single by choice (or in IR relationships) because they have done the same calculus that you advocate and have decided that its not worth the hassle.

As an aside, I noticed that you don't plan to marry for love, but please make sure that the man you marry LOVES YOU. Whether you love him, may or may not be an issue, but I think marrying a man that doesn't love you, even if he is a good man, is dangerous. Many of us are young on this board and haven't faced the worst that life has to offer. I haven't, but I'm very close to people who have, and one thing I know is that there is a difference in the way a man who loves you comforts you during those times. Of course love will not make a man perfect, but there is a difference. I'm not saying that a marriage of convenience can't become a love-match, but I truly believe that marriage is only fulfilling for a woman if she is loved. You sound like a person who has set many goals for herself, but please don't aspire to the emptiness of a loveless marriage. To be honest, that is something that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not blaming black women for the condition of our communities but I would like to think before someone decides to get pregnant by a man you need to examine their character. Let’s say the relationship doesn’t work out, will he still be man enough to participate in raising your children? To me those basic foundations are lacking because kids and young men of our generation (ages 21-30) are not being raised to conduct themselves with integrity or be responsible.

But on the positive note, numbers aside, there are a lot of good black men out there who would make amazing fathers and husbands. What’s ironic is that a lot of them often debate amongst themselves about the lack of quality black women out there so who knows…

I think we see the same problem, but differ in our approaches. You seem to be much more patient with black men than I am. I would definitely describe myself as disenchanted (and not because I've been beaten or impregnated.) I look around sometimes and just want to through up my hands. But ultimately, like many people have pointed out I suppose I hope to meet a man who shares my culture and who loves and values me. If a meet a black man like that, I'd be a fool to knock him back--I'm just not sure that I will ever meet him.

Anyway, I really don't think there is any way to bridge the gap between our viewpoints. But I do think your optimism is great. It is better to think the best of people. I just think you should be careful about placing men in the 'misunderstood victim' category and women in the 'get it together' category.

Take care.

 

[MissJ]

I've not given up, but will definitely look elsewhere. I'm going back to my roots.

 

[MuseofTroy]

I think we see the same problem, but differ in our approaches. You seem to be much more patient with black men than I am. I would definitely describe myself as disenchanted (and not because I've been beaten or impregnated.) I look around sometimes and just want to through up my hands. But ultimately, like many people have pointed out I suppose I hope to meet a man who shares my culture and who loves and values me. If a meet a black man like that, I'd be a fool to knock him back--I'm just not sure that I will ever meet him.

Anyway, I really don't think there is any way to bridge the gap between our viewpoints. But I do think your optimism is great. It is better to think the best of people. I just think you should be careful about placing men in the 'misunderstood victim' category and women in the 'get it together' category.

Take care.

I definitely respect your opinion and you've made some excellent points in this discussion. Many of us on the board are still young and have a lot to learn (myself included ) My whole theory is that if you conduct yourself a certain way, that is what you will ultimately attract.

I also want to qualify my comment about marrying for love. I think love is an important element in a relationship but I don’t think that should be the sole purpose for people joining their lives together. Just because you love someone doesn’t mean they are good for you in the context of a relationship.

 

[ambergirl]

I definitely respect your opinion and you've made some excellent points in this discussion. Many of us on the board are still young and have a lot to learn (myself included ) My whole theory is that if you conduct yourself a certain way, that is what you will ultimately attract.

I also want to qualify my comment about marrying for love. I think love is an important element in a relationship but I don’t think that should be the sole purpose for people joining their lives together. Just because you love someone doesn’t mean they are good for you in the context of a relationship.

I can definitely sign on to that!

 

[NeeSee]

I
I also want to qualify my comment about marrying for love. I think love is an important element in a relationship but I don’t think that should be the sole purpose for people joining their lives together. Just because you love someone doesn’t mean they are good for you in the context of a relationship.

ITA! This is so true and this is honestly a mistake that I think a lot of women make.

 

[Shimmie]

I definitely respect your opinion and you've made some excellent points in this discussion. Many of us on the board are still young and have a lot to learn (myself included ) My whole theory is that if you conduct yourself a certain way, that is what you will ultimately attract.

I also want to qualify my comment about marrying for love.

I think love is an important element in a relationship but I don’t think that should be the sole purpose for people joining their lives together. Just because you love someone doesn’t mean they are good for you in the context of a relationship.

I agree with this as well. But I'd like to add this.

I cannot love a man that I do not respect or a man who does not respect me. This isn't love, it's foolishless in any color.

The blame is not upon our 'Black' men. All 'laundry' gets dirty, no matter what color, fabric or style.

Afterall, it was a white man who created Tide with Bleach for his dirty laundry. Yet it still gets aired anyway. News at 11...White Fool forgot to cover his 'Downey'.
_____________

Ladies, you've done a wonderful job here. You brought this 'home' and with more Love for our men and for each other.

(((( Blessings and Group Hugs All Around ))))

 

[Belle Du Jour]

I'll just say this: the quality of men today is not up to my standards. I think when you compare the proportion of black men to other races who are not making the grade, it's disproporionate. So of the men who don't meet my standards, black men make up a larger percent. I hope that made sense. Anyway, I just think it's hard times for good women in general. There aren't a lot of comparable men out there.

 

[envybeauty]

I agree with Sea and Muse on a lot of their points.

However, I am 100% behind Muse when it comes to women taking responsibility for their share of the blame when it comes to Black Men. I'm not talking about just mothers. I'm talking about women who accept men into their lives that are substandard. Men who lie, cheat, steal, sell drugs, etc...in other words, men who live their lives below the standards that the women around them keep for themselves. I mean...take LHCF for example.... in another thread a girl posted about how she is dating some "baller"..(FYI, doing any kind of illegal activity that is poisioning our neighborhoods and that risks jail time and a bullet to the head does not make one a "baller"). ..my understanding of her comments is that he is involved in some sort of illegal and dangerous activity (like dealing guns or drugs). Now in response to her, women on LHCF are like...'ok, just be careful' or 'you do you girl and have fun doing it.' What kind of shyte is that!! Too often, women support other women who put up with this nonsense.

I'm reading it and thinking...ok...this is wrong on so many levels. First, other women need not support this woman and have her thinking that it is ok to date someone doing such ish. You don't have to condemn the woman but don't rally support for her (and him) either. On LHCF or IRL.

Next, too many women like her are in abundance...dating drug dealers, pimps, etc. and thinking it is cool. No wonder teenage boys think it is some kind of rite of passage to deal or go to jail.... Yes, there are boys out there that are just waiting to go to jail or to carry around a piece because they think it is cool and why....because women trip over themselves for men like this thinking that they are "balling" -- WTF!

Next, there are women who even after ole boy goes to jail, comes out, deals again...they date him and put up with his ish. Why even have someone like that around you? Set a standard in your life that you will not date or befriend men on that level (liars, cheater, drug dealers). Women bend over for no good men knowing they are no good. If we raised our standards for the men around us, then they will improve. No longer will boys want to go to jail.

Same for putting up with men known to disprespect other women by being the other woman or putting up with the man knowing that he has cheated on you (once or repeatedly). Others stay friends with men like this.

I cut men AND women out of my life that are up to no good. I don't need their wayward ways to come into my spirit or to influence my environment. I'm not perfect, but I am all about uplifting other people and not disrespecting them. The standards I maintain for me, I also maintain for the other men and women in my life. I will even try to help them maintain that own standard for themselves (with job, relationships, faith, etc.) and I expect them to do the same for me.

 

[envybeauty]

Also, it should not be forced down women's throats that they should love Black men no matter what.

That kind of attitude (that we need to love them, love them, just love them) over these many decades has not helped women to discern when to drop the men doing no good and it has not helped the men to want to improve themselves.

Black men get an abundance of love from Black women.... women all over will trip over any kiind of brotha. The most broke, busted, ugliest of black man has and can get many a Black woman to love him. Shoot...some Black men even have more than one Black woman loving him.....a woman here, a woman there, heck..everywhere they lay their heads they have a black woman A lot of sistas on here can testify to finding out about that.

It is not more unconditional love from Black women that Black men need to whip them into shape.

 

[MzLady78]

in another thread a girl posted about how she is dating some "baller"..(FYI, doing any kind of illegal activity that is poisioning our neighborhoods and that risks jail time and a bullet to the head does not make one a "baller"). ..my understanding of her comments is that he is involved in some sort of illegal and dangerous activity (like dealing guns or drugs). Now in response to her, women on LHCF are like...'ok, just be careful' or 'you do you girl and have fun doing it.' What kind of shyte is that!! Too often, women support other women who put up with this nonsense.

Whoa, I need to go find that thread, that's crazy!!!

 

[MzLady78]

Also, it should not be forced down women's throats that they should love Black men no matter what.

That kind of attitude (that we need to love them, love them, just love them) over these many decades has not helped women to discern when to drop the men doing no good and it has not helped the men to want to improve themselves.

Black men get an abundance of love from Black women.... women all over will trip over any kiind of brotha. The most broke, busted, ugliest of black man has and can get many a Black woman to love him. Shoot...some Black men even have more than one Black woman loving him.....a woman here, a woman there, heck..everywhere they lay their heads they have a black woman A lot of sistas on here can testify to finding out about that.

It is not more unconditional love from Black women that Black men need to whip them into shape.[/quote]

ITA with this.

 

[Aveena]

My comments are going to be off-topic but....... I think there's an awful lot of sticking your head in the sand going on in the Black community. For the last twenty years our community has had its own version of don't ask don't tell, and where has it gotten us? Black women have the lowest marriage rate, the highest rate of children out of wedlock (no judgment) fastest growing community infected with AIDs....etc. etc. What will it take for us to wise up? Black women dropping dead in the streets?

I'm sorry, but it's time to call a spade a spade. Yes, there are a number of wonderful black men (my Daddy is a wonderful man too, and my brothers have also managed to stay out of jailerplexed ), but bottom lining it for you...today, they are the slim minority.

We can play wish upon a star for as long as we want to (I'm just putting that out into the universe), but that is not going to solve the problems that are DESTROYING the black community. God helps those who help themselves, and for that reason I admire women who vote with their feet. If more of our successful, educated, highly sought after black women did that, maybe it would have a trickle down effect. Because right now, too many women are putting up with BS, just so they can say that they've managed to hunt down the elusive black man.

So....have I decided to give up on black men? I truly wonder why we care so much. Based on the number of times I see black women described by other black women on this board as bitter, jealous, triflin, special, etc etc, with little or no provocation, it's clear to me that we find it very easy to give up on black women.

DAYUM!! go head chile preach.