Who has Actually Given Up on Black Men...What Did it for You?

[MuseofTroy]

My comments are going to be off-topic but....... I think there's an awful lot of sticking your head in the sand going on in the Black community. For the last twenty years our community has had its own version of don't ask don't tell, and where has it gotten us? Black women have the lowest marriage rate, the highest rate of children out of wedlock (no judgment) fastest growing community infected with AIDs....etc. etc. What will it take for us to wise up? Black women dropping dead in the streets?

I'm sorry, but it's time to call a spade a spade. Yes, there are a number of wonderful black men (my Daddy is a wonderful man too, and my brothers have also managed to stay out of jailerplexed ), but bottom lining it for you...today, they are the slim minority.

We can play wish upon a star for as long as we want to (I'm just putting that out into the universe), but that is not going to solve the problems that are DESTROYING the black community. God helps those who help themselves, and for that reason I admire women who vote with their feet. If more of our successful, educated, highly sought after black women did that, maybe it would have a trickle down effect. Because right now, too many women are putting up with BS, just so they can say that they've managed to hunt down the elusive black man.

So....have I decided to give up on black men? I truly wonder why we care so much. Based on the number of times I see black women described by other black women on this board as bitter, jealous, triflin, special, etc etc, with little or no provocation, it's clear to me that we find it very easy to give up on black women.

Sea1980 and I agree with the majority of your points. I give credit where credit is due and I'm the first one to call someone out on BS. With that being said I think the problem in the black community is that people are not held accountable for their behavior or to a higher standard. We are content with mediocrity and making excuses as to why some of our lives are a hot mess. Even though statistically a lot of black men AND WOMEN are in a world of trouble, a lot of those situations could be avoided if people made better choices in selecting their partners, getting an education, and managing their finances better which are all interconnected.

 

[MuseofTroy]

My generalization was based on women who are giving up on black men as a result of their negative experiences dealing with them. No one is telling you to sacrifice your happiness and take one for the team by dating some lame ass. I would hope that more women have standards and enough self respect not to compromise their integrity and well being just to be with a man. I don't want to challenge your reading comprehension skills but my post clearly articulated where I was coming from and no where did I indicate that a woman should sacrifice her happiness by limiting herself to just dating black men. Although I have a preference for black men I don't limit myself to them. I date individuals who interest me on a mental, spiritual and physical level and there have been times that a guy who encompasses those qualities happens to be someone of a different race. However I don’t have this mentality that men of other races are more on point than black men.


I just don't understand your anger.

Double Post

 

[MuseofTroy]

My generalization was based on women who are giving up on black men as a result of their negative experiences dealing with them. No one is telling you to sacrifice your happiness and take one for the team by dating some lame ass. I would hope that more women have standards and enough self respect not to compromise their integrity and well being just to be with a man. I don't want to challenge your reading comprehension skills but my post clearly articulated where I was coming from and no where did I indicate that a woman should sacrifice her happiness by limiting herself to just dating black men. Although I have a preference for black men I don't limit myself to them. I date individuals who interest me on a mental, spiritual and physical level and there have been times that a guy who encompasses those qualities happens to be someone of a different race. However I don’t have this mentality that men of other races are more on point than black men.


I just don't understand your anger.

What gave you the impression that I was angry? I'm actually having a fantastic day. We are having a discussion and I don't get emotional over someone with an opposing opinion. It's the internet for heaven's sake.

 

[Honey6928215]

I haven't given up on black men and I don't put much faith in them either. I pretty keep my guards up to ALL men but since I interact with black men I can only speak about them. There are good black men out there we just have to be patience and keep the faith.

 

[Shimmie]

My comments are going to be off-topic but....... I think there's an awful lot of sticking your head in the sand going on in the Black community. For the last twenty years our community has had its own version of don't ask don't tell, and where has it gotten us? Black women have the lowest marriage rate, the highest rate of children out of wedlock (no judgment) fastest growing community infected with AIDs....etc. etc. What will it take for us to wise up? Black women dropping dead in the streets?

I'm sorry, but it's time to call a spade a spade. Yes, there are a number of wonderful black men (my Daddy is a wonderful man too, and my brothers have also managed to stay out of jailerplexed ), but bottom lining it for you...today, they are the slim minority.

We can play wish upon a star for as long as we want to (I'm just putting that out into the universe), but that is not going to solve the problems that are DESTROYING the black community. God helps those who help themselves, and for that reason I admire women who vote with their feet. If more of our successful, educated, highly sought after black women did that, maybe it would have a trickle down effect. Because right now, too many women are putting up with BS, just so they can say that they've managed to hunt down the elusive black man.

So....have I decided to give up on black men? I truly wonder why we care so much. Based on the number of times I see black women described by other black women on this board as bitter, jealous, triflin, special, etc etc, with little or no provocation, it's clear to me that we find it very easy to give up on black women.

Somehow, I can't help but see nothing but a message of love in your post. You put the facts out there which are not Off Topic at all. You've pointed out the 'weapons' against us as a whole, not just 'our' men.

It all comes full circle, that it's about all of us, not just the male gender. And that we have a whole lot of healing to do as a whole. For as women, we've given up on each other as well. I can see where I've been guilty of this.

Hope I make sense. Basically, you see the 'whole' issue; the problems on all sides of us and you care about the whole not just part of it.. This is what truly matters to you.

 

[Blossssom]

Gave up or gave it up to? Im confused...maybe I need some chocolate...

I like the gave it up to angle!

Everybody on here has pretty much done that!

 

[WhipEffectz1]

I don't never see Black men defending us like this(okay maybe a tiny percentage)!!!!!!

 

[Shimmie]

I don't never see Black men defending us like this(okay maybe a tiny percentage)!!!!!!

Hey cutie pie ((( hugs ))) . I don't never 'see' it much myself.

But when I do, I cherish it and I cherish him. Indeed I do.

 

[WhipEffectz1]

Hey cutie pie ((( hugs ))) . I don't never 'see' it much myself.

But when I do, I cherish it and I cherish him. Indeed I do.

Hello dear!

Yes, I cherish it also when it does happen. I just don't see why we debate so much over it. Its not like we can go to Black Men's magazine forums and see them raving and ranting about us! Don't get me wrong I love my black men as my SO is a ravishing brother but I'm not about to waste my time chasing some of these men who could care less about some of us, MUCH LESS DEFEND THEM. I look around me everyday in Atlanta(other major cities as well) and see beautiful black women S-I-N-G-L-E! I just don't get it.

 

[Shimmie]

Ladies, from what each of you have shared, none of us have given up on 'our' men. We're the most faithful and loyal when it comes to supporting them.

We've been through the wringer and back and yet, we always have a reason to still love 'our' men dipped so well in 'Chocolate.'

With all of our hearts, we cheer them on still.

But to each of you is given an even more special cheer, for without the love you've given them time and time again, there would be no such thing as our Beautiful Black Men.

Our love for them is not in vain.

Blessings to all and much love in your lives with whomever God blesses you with, no matter what color.

 

[WhipEffectz1]

Ladies, from what each of you have shared, none of us have given up on 'our' men. We're the most faithful and loyal when it comes to supporting them.

We've been through the wringer and back and yet, we always have a reason to still love the men dipped so well in 'Chocolate.'

With all of our hearts, we cheer them on still.

But to each of you is given an even more special cheer, for without the love you've given them time and time again, there would be no such thing as our Beautiful Black Men.

Our love for them is not in vain.

Blessings to all and much love in your lives with whomever God blesses you with, no matter what color.

Ya think??????!!!

 

[Shimmie]

Ya think??????!!!

Hey Darlin... .

Yeah...I think...and I know...even more, I Believe. (and so do you ).

For love is not love which alters when it alteration finds,
nor bends with the 'Remover' to remove...
It is a ever fix'ed mark,
which looks on Tempests
and is never shaken...

(Wm. Shakespeare)

I think...I know...I Believe in our Men.
No other race knows how to...

What an honor to be a Black Woman
Loving a Black Man...
Keeping Him Alive
For without our love, they will die.

 

[sunshinebeautiful]

Of course not all black men are "bad". My father is an amazing black man. But one need only look at statistics to know that black men are in serious trouble in this world.

I'm feeling you on this point, especially in our generation. I often think to myself about how many Black men are knee-deep in criminal activities, locked up behind bars, who never made it to their 25th birthday or whatever.... I question whether my "soulmate" (as a Black man that had made some different choices in life) is locked up somewhere or six feet under. It's a REAL social issue that's disproprotionately affecting Black men. These guys could have potentially been "good Black men" focusing on building relationships and family-building or whatever if they had chosen another route in life. And there are SO MANY Black men is this position in life all over this country, especially in comparison to Black women getting educated, going to college in record numbers, etc. And, well, not that *I* just have all my stuff together (I'm the first one to admit that... and really WHO DOES?), but for ALOT of Black men I meet... I'm just not going there.

I haven't "given up" but I'm just acknowledging that it is not as easy as one might expect. And given the overall trends I can understand how some Black women might FEEL like giving up. From my experience, a lot of times it's like finding a needle in the haystack. Finding a good man is certainly worth searching for and maintaining your standards, but I can totally understand how some women would feel like giving up and it has nothing to do with overgeneralizing or being a bitter Black woman or whatever, but rather this is part of our REALITY.

I will say this.... after having been with a few "bad apples" it certainly makes you all the more appreciative of a good Black man when you see him. But I personally know way too many very FLY, talented, educated, good Black women who are out there "doing the damn thing" professionally and within our community who are painfully single because of this "reality" that we face that, Black men that "match their work" are simply just hard to come by.

 

[sunshinebeautiful]

I don't never see Black men defending us like this(okay maybe a tiny percentage)!!!!!!

Unfortunately, sad but true.

 

[MzLady78]

I don't never see Black men defending us like this(okay maybe a tiny percentage)!!!!!!

I know that's right!!!

 

[Shimmie]

I question whether my "soulmate" (as a Black man that had made some different choices in life) is locked up somewhere or six feet under.

It's a REAL social issue that's disproprotionately affecting Black men. These guys could have potentially been "good Black men" focusing on building relationships and family-building or whatever if they had chosen another route in life.

I haven't "given up" but I'm just acknowledging that it is not as easy as one might expect. And given the overall trends I can understand how some Black women might FEEL like giving up.

Finding a good man is certainly worth searching for and maintaining your standards, but I can totally understand how some women would feel like giving up and it has nothing to do with overgeneralizing or being a bitter Black woman or whatever, but rather this is part of our REALITY.

I will say this.... after having been with a few "bad apples" it certainly makes you all the more appreciative of a good Black man when you see him.

All of the above is what 'stood' out to me in your post, which is excellent You're speaking the truth.

These are many of the reasons, I want to 'hold on' and believe in our men.

It shows me that you've found even more reason to care and to love our men. You've stated beautifully, " You're not giving up."

It has to come from somewhere. Who better than 'we' Black like 'them.'

 

[Mickey]

In all honesty... I have given up on black men.

My last relationship with a black man was 2 years and it was riddled with violence, arguements, his ridiculous need to controll me, and a lack of compromise.

With that said I'm not saying that all black men are like that, but he was the icing on the cake. And for the 4 years living in Fl I have yet to find a decent black man that can speak to me in complete sentences. Also I just don't find black men attractive anymore.

 

[MuseofTroy]

I'm feeling you on this point, especially in our generation. I often think to myself about how many Black men are knee-deep in criminal activities, locked up behind bars, who never made it to their 25th birthday or whatever.... I question whether my "soulmate" (as a Black man that had made some different choices in life) is locked up somewhere or six feet under. It's a REAL social issue that's disproprotionately affecting Black men. These guys could have potentially been "good Black men" focusing on building relationships and family-building or whatever if they had chosen another route in life. And there are SO MANY Black men is this position in life all over this country, especially in comparison to Black women getting educated, going to college in record numbers, etc. And, well, not that *I* just have all my stuff together (I'm the first one to admit that... and really WHO DOES?), but for ALOT of Black men I meet... I'm just not going there.

I haven't "given up" but I'm just acknowledging that it is not as easy as one might expect. And given the overall trends I can understand how some Black women might FEEL like giving up. From my experience, a lot of times it's like finding a needle in the haystack. Finding a good man is certainly worth searching for and maintaining your standards, but I can totally understand how some women would feel like giving up and it has nothing to do with overgeneralizing or being a bitter Black woman or whatever, but rather this is part of our REALITY.

I will say this.... after having been with a few "bad apples" it certainly makes you all the more appreciative of a good Black man when you see him. But I personally know way too many very FLY, talented, educated, good Black women who are out there "doing the damn thing" professionally and within our community who are painfully single because of this "reality" that we face that, Black men that "match their work" are simply just hard to come by.

Perhaps this is a socio-economic issue because I don't know any black men in my circle who have ever been to jail or involved in illegal activity. I suppose our perceptions are based on personal experience because all the very talented, educated on point black women that I know who desired a good man had no problems getting one beyond the typical dating issues that every woman experiences at some point. Granted the statistics of black men in jail and not in high education is staggering but I still believe that personal choice plays a bigger role and the standards people have for themselves.

 

[FlowerHair]

All these dead beat black men must have been raised by our mothers, our aunties etc. I hope - for the next generation's sake that we are very careful in how we raise our sons.

I think it's impossible to take black women out of the context when talking about bad black men. We are the number one care takers of black boys. So it must have been something the older generation did wrong...

 

[Shimmie]

Perhaps this is a socio-economic issue because I don't know any black men in my circle who have ever been to jail or involved in illegal activity.

I suppose our perceptions are based on personal experience because all the very talented, educated on point black women that I know who desired a good man had no problems getting one beyond the typical dating issues that every woman experiences at some point.

Granted the statistics of black men in jail and not in high education is staggering but I still believe that personal choice plays a bigger role and the standards people have for themselves.

Sometimes we have to step 'outside' of our 'circles' and see the real world.

Either that or get an emotional 'jolt' and/or beat-down with facing reality. Just because it's not in our circle doesn't stop it from existing. We all have different phases in our lives.

You know what angel? Reading your post, I had a 'flashback' of two things that made me take note of myself.

1. The movie scene in "How Stella Got Her Groove Back" (Angela Basset), when her sister (portrayed by Susan Douglas) married to a White man, didn't consider the boyfriend as in 'her' circle.

and....

2. The way that I know myself to be because I've come so far, 'saved from the 'other' side of Black life. Yet, my life is not so "out-ter circle" and it never will be.

The thing is, no matter what circle we are in, we cannot deny 'the all' of who we are nor 'our' reality, otherwise we in our so-called circles will never grow any further than we have such 'arrived'.

Yes, in my space, my circle, there are many sucessful Blacks, men and women alike; family and friends, who have never been to jail, and they do have their lives together...or do they?

For how can we say 'we' have it together while still excluding the reality of those who deserve more honor than we and this world we live in, has yet to give them.

Socio-economic is a racist term that Whites have thrown at us far too long; as if they were tossing it at us as if we were a ball of manure. To say "...Black men in jail and not in high education" is still another White racist comment thrown in 'our' direction far too often. It's literally their motto of their chosen perception of us. "...perceptions based on personal experience" is another snide remark used by Whites.

I guess what I'm saying is that, loving who we are, doesn't mean we're any better and it should never sound that way, no matter how good the intentions we have. Instead it means loving the 'all' of us. Our 'circles' are even more of a prison that we've created for ourselves to escape 'our' reality. My circle is really no better than anyone else's, especially if I 'think' that it is. Otherwise, it makes me appear as a racist snob.

I'm not saying that this is 'you' personally. Online text is too often mis-understood. And I am in respect of what you share. But the words which were written, made me stop and think "....who in the hell do I think I am? Surely no better than anyone else...Black. Am I better than White.... damn right. But above my brothers and sisters...no.

Black Pride says we are always one; and we have nothing to 'hide' from ourselves nor from each other when it comes to being one.

I hope I didn't offend. I really didn't intend to.

I wish you nothing but Peace and Blessings with all of my heart...

 

[Shimmie]

In all honesty... I have given up on black men.

My last relationship with a black man was 2 years and it was riddled with violence, arguements, his ridiculous need to controll me, and a lack of compromise.

With that said I'm not saying that all black men are like that, but he was the icing on the cake. And for the 4 years living in Fl I have yet to find a decent black man that can speak to me in complete sentences. Also I just don't find black men attractive anymore.

You're still healing from a broken heart and many disappointments that 'Life' has thrown at you...not so much Black men. 'They' were just the tools used to be most effective. The closer we are to someone, the more of an 'open target' we become to be hurt.

You needed to speak your heart about this, for to keep the hurt inside, wouldn't be healing for you.

I was married to a Black man, so it was a Black man who happened to hurt me. A white man would have done the same...why? Because they are doing this very same thing to their 'white wives' every single day.

I thank God for the very moment when the very timing of the right man to come into your life and show you the beauty of 'Blackness' and prove the entire world wrong.

You deserve to have the best. It's long overdue. Receive your healing in every area of your emotions and your life. Don't blame it on Black men... the individual man, yes. Just rest and be assured that God is bringing you the very best. In Jesus' name...Amen.

Blessings Angel...

 

[sunnydaze]

I am getting on my LOA soapbox so bear with me.According to LOA you get what you think about whether you want it or not.

If you truly want a "good black man" to come into your life, you have to truly believe he is out there for you and be expectant of his arrival. Saying that is what you want but believing he is in jail, with wm, gay,etc.. completely cancels out your request. Not believing that good bm exists only ensures that they won't exist for you.

If you truly do not care if he is black or not, just a good man then fine. Put that out there.

I can only speak to the negative b/c like I stated before, for years I mainly focused on the type of man I knew I didn't want. I focused on it with such passion that I attracted him into my life.

When I am ready to begin dating again I know that I prefer a black man. I will only focus on what I want period. I will not let all the talk of them all being in jail, with wm, gay, deadbeats, stc cloud my thoughts. I will have an idea of the man I do want in my mind and adhere to that, know he is out there looking for me as well and expect to meet him one day.

 

[MuseofTroy]

Sometimes we have to step 'outside' of our 'circles' and see the real world.

Either that or get an emotional 'jolt' and/or beat-down with facing reality. Just because it's not in our circle doesn't stop it from existing. We all have different phases in our lives.

You know what angel? Reading your post, I had a 'flashback' of two things that made me take note of myself.

1. The movie scene in "How Stella Got Her Groove Back" (Angela Basset), when her sister (portrayed by Susan Douglas) married to a White man, didn't consider the boyfriend as in 'her' circle.

and....

2. The way that I know myself to be because I've come so far, 'saved from the 'other' side of Black life. Yet, my life is not so "out-ter circle" and it never will be.

The thing is, no matter what circle we are in, we cannot deny 'the all' of who we are nor 'our' reality, otherwise we in our so-called circles will never grow any further than we have such 'arrived'.

Yes, in my space, my circle, there are many sucessful Blacks, men and women alike; family and friends, who have never been to jail, and they do have their lives together...or do they?

For how can we say 'we' have it together while still excluding the reality of those who deserve more honor than we and this world we live in, has yet to give them.

Socio-economic is a racist term that Whites have thrown at us far too long; as if they were tossing it at us as if we were a ball of manure. To say "...Black men in jail and not in high education" is still another White racist comment thrown in 'our' direction far too often. It's literally their motto of their chosen perception of us. "...perceptions based on personal experience" is another snide remark used by Whites.

I guess what I'm saying is that, loving who we are, doesn't mean we're any better and it should never sound that way, no matter how good the intentions we have. Instead it means loving the 'all' of us. Our 'circles' are even more of a prison that we've created for ourselves to escape 'our' reality. My circle is really no better than anyone else's, especially if I 'think' that it is. Otherwise, it makes me appear as a racist snob.

I'm not saying that this is 'you' personally. Online text is too often mis-understood. And I am in respect of what you share. But the words which were written, made me stop and think "....who in the hell do I think I am? Surely no better than anyone else...Black. Am I better than White.... damn right. But above my brothers and sisters...no.

Black Pride says we are always one; and we have nothing to 'hide' from ourselves nor from each other when it comes to being one.

I hope I didn't offend. I really didn't intend to.

I wish you nothing but Peace and Blessings with all of my heart...

Shimmie, you didn't offend me at all. I really appreciate your candid response and I actually love a healthy debate!

In response to some of your comments I can understand how my opinions can be construed as snobbery or even analogous to how racist whites think about black people. However the truth of the matter is that I was trying to showcase my experience to show that it is utterly ridiculous to give up on a whole group of men based on one's limited interaction.

On the other hand maybe I am a snob. I have high standards and I am very discriminating about who I associate with. Mind you this doesn't mean I live inside of a happy box oblivious to the world around me. I recognize that the black community needs a lot of work and a lot of our men/women are struggling to make it. However, from my observations a lot of people are in their situations because of bad choices. We can only put so much blame on the system and blaming whites for historical grievances but at the end of the day we all have choices to make and how we choose to conduct ourselves. Individuals give way too much power to outside forces and how they impact their lives.

No one is perfect. We all make mistakes and the best course of action once they have been made is to learn from them and move on. With that being said, my circle is not perfect. However I think what I love the most about my close friends and our “clique” is that we hold each other accountable for our actions and have high expectations for each other. I think black people get with the program and even if you can’t change the world you can start with your own life.

Forgive me for going off on a tangent but as for black women finding “good black men” they are out there despite statistics and what propaganda is being spewed out there by the media and society in general.

 

[Hil84figer]

Sometimes we have to step 'outside' of our 'circles' and see the real world.

Either that or get an emotional 'jolt' and/or beat-down with facing reality. Just because it's not in our circle doesn't stop it from existing. We all have different phases in our lives.

You know what angel? Reading your post, I had a 'flashback' of two things that made me take note of myself.

1. The movie scene in "How Stella Got Her Groove Back" (Angela Basset), when her sister (portrayed by Susan Douglas) married to a White man, didn't consider the boyfriend as in 'her' circle.

and....

2. The way that I know myself to be because I've come so far, 'saved from the 'other' side of Black life. Yet, my life is not so "out-ter circle" and it never will be.

The thing is, no matter what circle we are in, we cannot deny 'the all' of who we are nor 'our' reality, otherwise we in our so-called circles will never grow any further than we have such 'arrived'.

Yes, in my space, my circle, there are many sucessful Blacks, men and women alike; family and friends, who have never been to jail, and they do have their lives together...or do they?

For how can we say 'we' have it together while still excluding the reality of those who deserve more honor than we and this world we live in, has yet to give them.

Socio-economic is a racist term that Whites have thrown at us far too long; as if they were tossing it at us as if we were a ball of manure. To say "...Black men in jail and not in high education" is still another White racist comment thrown in 'our' direction far too often. It's literally their motto of their chosen perception of us. "...perceptions based on personal experience" is another snide remark used by Whites.

I guess what I'm saying is that, loving who we are, doesn't mean we're any better and it should never sound that way, no matter how good the intentions we have. Instead it means loving the 'all' of us. Our 'circles' are even more of a prison that we've created for ourselves to escape 'our' reality. My circle is really no better than anyone else's, especially if I 'think' that it is. Otherwise, it makes me appear as a racist snob.

I'm not saying that this is 'you' personally. Online text is too often mis-understood. And I am in respect of what you share. But the words which were written, made me stop and think "....who in the hell do I think I am? Surely no better than anyone else...Black. Am I better than White.... damn right. But above my brothers and sisters...no.

Black Pride says we are always one; and we have nothing to 'hide' from ourselves nor from each other when it comes to being one.

I hope I didn't offend. I really didn't intend to.

I wish you nothing but Peace and Blessings with all of my heart...

Preach sister Preach.

And all the people say AMEN!!!.

 

[mychai]

All these dead beat black men must have been raised by our mothers, our aunties etc. I hope - for the next generation's sake that we are very careful in how we raise our sons.

I think it's impossible to take black women out of the context when talking about bad black men. We are the number one care takers of black boys. So it must have been something the older generation did wrong...

I disagree. It's my understanding that the trend of "bad black men" stems from the unfortunate lack of male role models in so many black families. I understand that this trend began as a by-product of the social welfare system and mushroomed from there. I think we need to understand that that it is difficult for women to raise men. We don't know how they think and oftentimes we don't have the same authority with men. I think the reason why you have so many women doing well, is because mothers understand their female children and are better able to identify pitfalls that their girls will face, because they faced them too. It's harder to do that with boys. Boys need fathers (or father figures) who are active in their lives. Too many black men have abdicated that role. First, because they had too and later because they didn't learn any different.

It's the trend for us to expect black women to be mother, father, pastor, teacher, etc etc. But it's not possible. We are just women (we're great but not omnipotent).

 

[Blossssom]

I wish I had time to participate but I CAN'T! This stupid job won't let me!

Anyway, I'm sure I agree with whatever Muse said

This thread will be dead by the time the weekend comes and I can "participate". Oh well.

I MISS YOU GUYS!

 

[BlkHoneyLuv2U]

THE LAST ONE ALMOST KILLED ME!!

 

[NeeSee]

Sometimes we have to step 'outside' of our 'circles' and see the real world.

Either that or get an emotional 'jolt' and/or beat-down with facing reality. Just because it's not in our circle doesn't stop it from existing. We all have different phases in our lives.

You know what angel? Reading your post, I had a 'flashback' of two things that made me take note of myself.

1. The movie scene in "How Stella Got Her Groove Back" (Angela Basset), when her sister (portrayed by Susan Douglas) married to a White man, didn't consider the boyfriend as in 'her' circle.

and....

2. The way that I know myself to be because I've come so far, 'saved from the 'other' side of Black life. Yet, my life is not so "out-ter circle" and it never will be.

The thing is, no matter what circle we are in, we cannot deny 'the all' of who we are nor 'our' reality, otherwise we in our so-called circles will never grow any further than we have such 'arrived'.

Yes, in my space, my circle, there are many sucessful Blacks, men and women alike; family and friends, who have never been to jail, and they do have their lives together...or do they?

For how can we say 'we' have it together while still excluding the reality of those who deserve more honor than we and this world we live in, has yet to give them.

Socio-economic is a racist term that Whites have thrown at us far too long; as if they were tossing it at us as if we were a ball of manure. To say "...Black men in jail and not in high education" is still another White racist comment thrown in 'our' direction far too often. It's literally their motto of their chosen perception of us. "...perceptions based on personal experience" is another snide remark used by Whites.

I guess what I'm saying is that, loving who we are, doesn't mean we're any better and it should never sound that way, no matter how good the intentions we have. Instead it means loving the 'all' of us. Our 'circles' are even more of a prison that we've created for ourselves to escape 'our' reality. My circle is really no better than anyone else's, especially if I 'think' that it is. Otherwise, it makes me appear as a racist snob.

I'm not saying that this is 'you' personally. Online text is too often mis-understood. And I am in respect of what you share. But the words which were written, made me stop and think "....who in the hell do I think I am? Surely no better than anyone else...Black. Am I better than White.... damn right. But above my brothers and sisters...no.

Black Pride says we are always one; and we have nothing to 'hide' from ourselves nor from each other when it comes to being one.

I hope I didn't offend. I really didn't intend to.

I wish you nothing but Peace and Blessings with all of my heart...

You didn't offend anyone, it was long overdue and needed to be said.

 

[mychai]

Perhaps this is a socio-economic issue because I don't know any black men in my circle who have ever been to jail or involved in illegal activity. I suppose our perceptions are based on personal experience because all the very talented, educated on point black women that I know who desired a good man had no problems getting one beyond the typical dating issues that every woman experiences at some point. Granted the statistics of black men in jail and not in high education is staggering but I still believe that personal choice plays a bigger role and the standards people have for themselves.

You reference the staggering statistics regarding dysfunction in the black male community almost as if its irrelevant. Of course choice plays a role in those statistics. Very few people are forced to sell drugs or engage in other negative behaviors, and in today's America very few people NEED to drop out of school at a young age, but people do. Now then, once these choices have been made, they have consequences. You choose to surround yourself with good people. That is an excellent choice. But let's take this a step further. Let's assume that the statistics that we have all been hearing for years are correct and eligible black women outnumber black men. Let's also assume that these eligible black woman choose only to date, socialize with and marry eligible black men. Well, I'm sure we can all do the math, some of these eligible "talented, educated, on point" black women, will not get black men (we are also assuming that bigamy, extramarital affairs, and other forms of cheating are frowned upon). It's just numbers.

Of course, maybe you don't accept the fact that eligible black women outnumber black men. If you don't accept that basic assumption, then I can understand where you are coming from. But nothing in your many posts leads me to believe this. So, for awhile I was left scratching my head over this, and then I reread your post. The good black women that you mentioned found "good men", not good black men. Now the real question is was this deliberate or Freudian slip. Interesting.

 

[daoriginaldiva]

You reference the staggering statistics regarding dysfunction in the black male community almost as if its irrelevant. Of course choice plays a role in those statistics. Very few people are forced to sell drugs or engage in other negative behaviors, and in today's America very few people NEED to drop out of school at a young age, but people do. Now then, once these choices have been made, they have consequences. You choose to surround yourself with good people. That is an excellent choice. But let's take this a step further. Let's assume that the statistics that we have all been hearing for years are correct and eligible black women outnumber black men. Let's also assume that these eligible black woman choose only to date, socialize with and marry eligible black men. Well, I'm sure we can all do the math, some of these eligible "talented, educated, on point" black women, will not get black men (we are also assuming that bigamy, extramarital affairs, and other forms of cheating are frowned upon). It's just numbers.

Of course, maybe you don't accept the fact that eligible black women outnumber black men. If you don't accept that basic assumption, then I can understand where you are coming from. But nothing in your many posts leads me to believe this. So, for awhile I was left scratching my head over this, and then I reread your post. The good black women that you mentioned found "good men", not good black men. Now the real question is was this deliberate or Freudian slip. Interesting.

Wow, you have raised some interesting points. Do carry on.......