Oh Lord, Black Love Will Keep You Broke

[TCatt86]

"This is because black women continue to have substantially lower levels of household income than white women, both because they are less likely to be married and because black men earn less than white men.”

The article indicates bw being less likely to be married as a causative factor for lower income. As we all know, bw are also more likely to have children on top of it. More marriage to bm would definitely help the household income, especially if the rates of previous children were reduced.

Household income being lower (which everybody knows anyway) does not automatically mean bw are "screwed".

Sadly I think alot of people see this and think we are.

 

[Cheleigh]

It goes back to a previous thread where you said we need to stop using white people as the barometer of success. We are using them as the barometer so of course we are losing because we're comparing ourselves to people that have set it up for us to fail.

ITA. For example, someone upthread mentioned some person who doesn't believe that BM have patriarchy. Absolutely not true. Every group tries to be dominate over another group. Even now, BM who aren't earning 10% of their partner will still trot out their patriarchal views when it comes to supporting their partner with domestic chores, child rearing, control of the finances etc. The type of gender norms that works for a couple with traditional gender stereotypes (man being primary breadwinner, wife staying at home with kids or earning supplemental income only) may not work well for bringing black couples out of generational poverty. Both BM and BW need to be more willing to privately embrace their unique strengths and situations to get ahead in this climate. For example, if indeed the BW is earning significantly more than her mate, she needs to find a way to be OK with that while still fulfilling her part in a healthy relationship. He needs to be OK with that, make the sacrifices and compromises necessary to support her strengths in being the dominant one making the financial moves. In spite of studies and trends that we see that show black women outearning black men in some cases, receiving higher degrees in some cases I think there's a real lack of acceptance in our communities for this trend and as a result we fight each other in our internal relationships with the man being uncomfortable with the new dynamic and acting out, being inappropriately alpha male, and the woman being uncomfortable with the dynamic and either lording it over her man or being superwoman, that we can't really acknowledge that what is working for other ethnicities in their relationships may not work in ours. There may not be rules or precedent for what we need to do that will work in our black relationships, so we need to be comfortable defining our own norms and our own rules that will engender our success.

 

[Blessedwithabundance14]

Exactly! And I was reading through the thread on the other site (LSA) and most of the "black women" seem to think white men are the answer. If you want to swirl, good for you but don't throw black men under the bus in the process.

I think that is the agenda. We now have bm who think ww are the answer and bw that think wm are the answer. We have this all backwards and the truth is that bm need bw and bw need bm (this is excluding sorry folks who are not about anything.) This belief that we need the other is what is further breaking up blacks building and raising families. It is something when you see a strong black family with beautiful kids..there is nothing like it! They can keep that bw should date wm and bm should date ww mess. I love having melanated kids that look like me

 

[JudithO]

In the spirit of maintaining marrying up and maintaining blackness, is marrying an African man just as frowned upon as marrying a white American man (even though I know most African men want African women)?

Anyway, nothing to see here. Know your worth.. marry well... last resort expand your dating pool... the end!

 

[Evolving78]

Obviously every black man is not poor. I think the take away should be for black women to be more considerate of socioeconomic status when considering a partner. It seems like many black women just date/marry whomever will love or pretend to love them, without factoring in much else.

If black women stick to this notion, BM have no choice but to step up. We are the key holders. Men will die for money, power, and vagina. No more working with a brotha. Men will work for what is valuable. We need to stop bringing assets to the table, and be the table. We need to boycott...lol

 

[UmSumayyah]

If black women stick to this notion, BM have no choice but to step up. We are the key holders. Men will die for money, power, and vagina. No more working with a brotha. Men will work for what is valuable. We need to stop bringing assets to the table, and be the table. We need to boycott...lol

Black women value black relationships and fully black children.
Black women value black relationships and fully black children more than bm do. (the stats prove it)
Black women value black relationships and having fully black children above increased financial security for their children.

These studies will not change that, because ultimately they aren't really saying anything new. It would be a bright day if bm matched bw's dedication.

 

[Evolving78]

Black women value black relationships and fully black children.
Black women value black relationships and fully black children more than bm do. (the stats prove it)
Black women value black relationships and having fully black children above increased financial security for their children.

These studies will not change that, because ultimately they aren't really saying anything new. It would be a bright day if bm matched bw's dedication.

And there you have it. So why keep putting energy into something that doesn’t see that same value. Black women just need to keep busy and don’t settle. Black men will have to just catch up and step up.

 

[UmSumayyah]

Sadly I think alot of people see this and think we are.

Careful management of those resources as well as preventing unneccessary strain on those resources goes a long way

And there you have it. So why keep putting energy into something that doesn’t see that same value. Black women just need to keep busy and don’t settle. Black men will have to just catch up and step up.

Because many people don't make decisions based on the numbers. Bw are making these decisions from the heart.

 

[naturalgyrl5199]

And let's be honest... the logical conclusion for the solutions!!! people can only be one thing...marry white. Given the findings of this study, that's the only way to close the gap and catch up with or surpass white women without waiting for policy to catch up, racism to end, or bm to overcome inequality.

Realistically, that's gonna have to happen anyway to some degree given the ratio of bw to bm. But I'm not interested in catching up to white folks if it means having to live in their neighborhoods, marry them, etc. Is that really winning just because the stats say so? I don't know...

depends on who's asking...who's being asked.
For passing wealth....possibly if said wealth finds its way (back) into the black community. Who gone depend on that?
The focus should be getting ALL black people to invest in themselves and their children--- to pass generational wealth to the future and so forth.

And also having non-black children for those black women who may marry white and not have children from a previous union. I don't know how many black women would be okay with as another website put it, severely diluting their blood line and possibly being the last black person in their bloodline.

So true.
Its frustrating but mentioned upthread that black men DO NOT CARE if they are the last black person of their bloodline.
But I'm not up in arms about them because IR relationships still are a small percentage of married black individuals. The IR issue just has a bigger platform.

 

[FemmeFatale]

Here’s the thing, Black women are vilified for wanting a man with means, the moment she has a salary requirement, she’s pegged a gold digger who won’t hold a brother down..it’s all conditioning and since bw want to be chosen, many fall in line with that.

On another note, it’s why I like the real gold diggers because they know to keep themselves front and center better than the pickme types..

I know I’m off topic a bit

 

[Crackers Phinn]

Black women value black relationships and fully black children.
Black women value black relationships and fully black children more than bm do. (the stats prove it)
Black women value black relationships and having fully black children above increased financial security for their children.

These studies will not change that, because ultimately they aren't really saying anything new. It would be a bright day if bm matched bw's dedication.

The only explanation can be that the white man won't let the black man match black women's dedication. .

 

[UmSumayyah]

The only explanation can be that the white man won't let the black man match black women's dedication. .

 

[ScorpioBeauty09]

Black women just need to be more selective of who they date. Don't date the unemployed . Don't date felons. Don't date dope boys. Don't date someone with multiple children to women/woman he wasn't married to.

Exactly. I don’t date down financially. Never have. I date both BM and MOC. Standard is the same either way. Nothing else to see here.

 

[Crackers Phinn]

Some fool that used to co-host with Yvette Carnell put out a video in response to the Brookings findings. The logical conclusion that he and some black male Phd came to is that the study proves that need to quit expecting black men to be providers. There's an added bonus when the pick me introduces the topic of black women being worthy of providers.

I'm only providing the link so folks can't say I'm lying on them. Starting at 27 minutes.


IS THIS YOUR KING?

 

[kimpaur]

Some fool that used to co-host with Yvette Carnell put out a video in response to the Brookings findings. The logical conclusion that he and some black male Phd came to is that the study proves that need to quit expecting black men to be providers. There's an added bonus when the pick me introduces the topic of black women being worthy of providers.

I'm only providing the link so folks can't say I'm lying on them. Starting at 27 minutes.


IS THIS YOUR KING?

The lady had some good points, i.e the cognitive dissonance many black women experience, refusing to acknowledge that there simply are not enough high-earning black men to go around, and many of then probably won't want you. She lost me when she started saying black women with that expectation are participating in white privilege tho

But when the male cohost literally said this:

"why would black men be expected to give provisions, dates,rings if they're not a funnel for weath like white men?"

I turned it off. You can't take your woman out on dates, buy her a ring, etc because she makes more? I don't like the direction this conversation is going AT ALL.


ETA Okay, I lied. I listened to a bit more in this negrum said we've reached equality in race?? It's a post-feminism world? Does he not kno white women still make like .75 cents to a white man's dollar? Why is his female colleague not correcting him, or atleast giving him a side eye?

 

[kimpaur]

Per the video, I guess sexism is over because black women make more than their men, according to this guy .

This is why I can't do Yvette's or related videos

 

[Kurlee]

The lady had some good points, i.e the cognitive dissonance many black women experience, refusing to acknowledge that there simply are not enough high-earning black men to go around, and many of then probably won't want you. She lost me when she started saying black women with that expectation are participating in white privilege tho

But when the male cohost literally said this:

"why would black men be expected to give provisions, dates,rings if they're not a funnel for weath like white men?"

I turned it off. You can't take your woman out on dates, buy her a ring, etc because she makes more? I don't like the direction this conversation is going AT ALL.


ETA Okay, I lied. I listened to a bit more in this negrum said we've reached equality in race?? It's a post-feminism world? Does he not kno white women still make like .75 cents to a white man's dollar? Why is his female colleague not correcting him, or atleast giving him a side eye?

This. The cognitive dissonance irks me. People always draw on their very subjective supposed Black utopian lives to run away from a reality (for most) that they don't want to believe exists. As for the rest, I side eye Yvette Carnell and her ilk. The arguments are always very one-dimensional (economic only) and I suspect that she's a low-key pick me. She doesn't seem to know much about intersectionality, diaspora, migration, international development, etc., either.

 

[Crackers Phinn]

The lady had some good points, i.e the cognitive dissonance many black women experience, refusing to acknowledge that there simply are not enough high-earning black men to go around, and many of then probably won't want you. She lost me when she started saying black women with that expectation are participating in white privilege tho

I was done with her when she said the only AA billionaire was Oprah. If you're on a bm's show talking about who is worthy of rich black men and the only two AA billionaire's in the U.S. are married to nonblack women then somebody got to answer some uncomfortable questions. So those two AA dudes don't exist because "black men can't' and it's just feminist Oprah with her white supremacist backed money.

But when the male cohost literally said this:

"why would black men be expected to give provisions, dates,rings if they're not a funnel for weath like white men?"

I turned it off. You can't take your woman out on dates, buy her a ring, etc because she makes more? I don't like the direction this conversation is going AT ALL.


ETA Okay, I lied. I listened to a bit more in this negrum said we've reached equality in race?? It's a post-feminism world? Does he not kno white women still make like .75 cents to a white man's dollar? Why is his female colleague not correcting him, or atleast giving him a side eye?

 

[Southernbella.]

I'm confused about the direction this thread has taken.

 

[Cheleigh]

The lady had some good points, i.e the cognitive dissonance many black women experience, refusing to acknowledge that there simply are not enough high-earning black men to go around, and many of then probably won't want you. She lost me when she started saying black women with that expectation are participating in white privilege tho

But when the male cohost literally said this:

"why would black men be expected to give provisions, dates,rings if they're not a funnel for weath like white men?"

I turned it off. You can't take your woman out on dates, buy her a ring, etc because she makes more? I don't like the direction this conversation is going AT ALL.


ETA Okay, I lied. I listened to a bit more in this negrum said we've reached equality in race?? It's a post-feminism world? Does he not kno white women still make like .75 cents to a white man's dollar? Why is his female colleague not correcting him, or atleast giving him a side eye?

See, dude's response to this is why we can't be great. Men and women still have some fundamental needs in relationships. Most men need to feel in charge and be protectors. Most women need to feel protected. How does that happen if the BW is earning more than the BM and has the better financial or educational outcome? She still wants to feel protected, he still needs to be a protector. In most societies, the man achieves this by being the primary breadwinner and the woman being the primary caregiver--i.e. the financial provider is a dup for being the protector. But in a society where BW seem to be outpacing BM in some critical areas, is this a successful model for us? Even in BM/BW relationships where the man is a high earner, sometimes his mate is earning the equivalent salary, which also muddles the issue of who is the primary financial provider. But I can't imagine a long-term successful partnership where the a woman feels that she's the protector and the man feels he's the protected. It requires better and broader thinking to really create a workable paradigm--to somehow separate the concept of financial provider-ship as the only factor in being seen as the family's protector. Simply switching traditional gender roles is not the solution, because neither gender will feel fulfilled in the relationship. And I mentioned upthread about "privately" because I do feel that one of the keys in shifting the paradigm is to do what works for your family within the family's bubble, and not hold it out for pubic input and consumption. Frankly, there will always be lots folks who can only equate breadwinner = provider, and if you bring that mentality into a alternate paradigm that is otherwise working for your family, seeds to doubt and discontent will reign. And honestly, BM have to do the most work here to create a workable paradigm--they need to figure out ways to add significant value on their own to being the family's protector without diminishing the BW's worth and need to be protected.

 

[Crackers Phinn]

I'm confused about the direction this thread has taken.

I went looking for what black men had to say about the results and they are unsurprisingly quiet on the Tube of You on this particular topic. Since the dude whose video I posted is Yvette Carnell adjacent I figured he's as good as any of the few to provide a insight from the other side.

 

[Kurlee]

I went looking for what black men had to say about the results and they are unsurprisingly quiet on the Tube of You on this particular topic. Since the dude whose video I posted is Yvette Carnell adjacent I figured he's as good as any of the few to provide a insight from the other side.

I think it's important to discuss this from multiple angles, even the undesirable ones. There isn't one way to talk about something as complex as this. For solutions to work, they need to rooted in reality and not what we would like to believe reality is (for most). From what I've seen online, BM are indifferent and I think it's because BW seem more invested in this because it affects them much more.

 

[UmSumayyah]

See, dude's response to this is why we can't be great. Men and women still have some fundamental needs in relationships. Most men need to feel in charge and be protectors. Most women need to feel protected. How does that happen if the BW is earning more than the BM and has the better financial or educational outcome? She still wants to feel protected, he still needs to be a protector. In most societies, the man achieves this by being the primary breadwinner and the woman being the primary caregiver--i.e. the financial provider is a dup for being the protector. But in a society where BW seem to be outpacing BM in some critical areas, is this a successful model for us? Even in BM/BW relationships where the man is a high earner, sometimes his mate is earning the equivalent salary, which also muddles the issue of who is the primary financial provider. But I can't imagine a long-term successful partnership where the a woman feels that she's the protector and the man feels he's the protected. It requires better and broader thinking to really create a workable paradigm--to somehow separate the concept of financial provider-ship as the only factor in being seen as the family's protector. Simply switching traditional gender roles is not the solution, because neither gender will feel fulfilled in the relationship. And I mentioned upthread about "privately" because I do feel that one of the keys in shifting the paradigm is to do what works for your family within the family's bubble, and not hold it out for pubic input and consumption. Frankly, there will always be lots folks who can only equate breadwinner = provider, and if you bring that mentality into a alternate paradigm that is otherwise working for your family, seeds to doubt and discontent will reign. And honestly, BM have to do the most work here to create a workable paradigm--they need to figure out ways to add significant value on their own to being the family's protector without diminishing the BW's worth and need to be protected.

BM could protect, making sure his home is safe -strong doors, installing the best locks etc.
BM could provide all the home repairs the family needs, looking to books and youtube videos so that they don't need to inconvenience themselves and pay a service to fix the washer and dryer.
BM could provide some of the food, learning to grow a few things to reduce the family budget.
BM could protect his children from some of the effects of poor schools by teaching his children to read before kindergarten, helping them with homework, taking them to free events and discussing history, science and tech with them just from what he reads or listens to on his own. He could attend the PTA meetings and research the best free and low cost supplemental programs for his children.
I know a family where the dad has a small supplemental income business but he is the one homeschooling the kids, taking them to their classes and events while his wife holds a prestigious professional job. I suspect he is sitting on a decent amount of savings/inheritance and certainly worked before they had kids, but still.

 

[kimpaur]

I'm confused about the direction this thread has taken.

If this is in reference to me, my bad
When someone posts Yvette/ related videos , it touches a nerve and I just HAVE to comment.

Sorry to derail!

 

[FemmeFatale]

I think it's important to discuss this from multiple angles, even the undesirable ones. There isn't one way to talk about something as complex as this. For solutions to work, they need to rooted in reality and not what we would like to believe reality is (for most). From what I've seen online, BM are indifferent and I think it's because BW seem more invested in this because it affects them much more.

Which is why I think collectively bw should do what they can for themselves. No more frontline work for them every single time, put the expectations back on them.

 

[Southernbella.]

If this is in reference to me, my bad
When someone posts Yvette/ related videos , it touches a nerve and I just HAVE to comment.

Sorry to derail!

It wasn't.

I went looking for what black men had to say about the results and they are unsurprisingly quiet on the Tube of You on this particular topic. Since the dude whose video I posted is Yvette Carnell adjacent I figured he's as good as any of the few to provide a insight from the other side.

It's not necessarily that. Let me correct myself, it's actually not a new direction. I've seen references to unicorns, dating down, and low expectations and none of that really has anything to do with the actual findings of the study. But anyway, y'all carry on, I'm not trying to derail either.

 

[UmSumayyah]

CTFU

Somebody tell me what this means because I have been trying for months to figure it out

 

[AnjelLuvs]

Somebody tell me what this means because I have been trying for months to figure it out

CTFU = Cracking the F up.

 

[Kurlee]

Which is why I think collectively bw should do what they can for themselves. No more frontline work for them every single time, put the expectations back on them.

Agree 100%! My only thing is that BW also face barriers to trying to just divest and do their own thing. Are they winning? What other dating pools are they tapping into? What other options are available to them? What do the 25-40 crowd that are in the thick of it do? How does it turn out? Are they finding partners? Having kids? What are their networks of support?

I don't think BW date down because they want to, I think they do it because they feel they have to. There are definitely some Black middle and upper middle class women that are able to find men that are on par with them, and live in Black utopian communities, but this is not the norm for most Black women. Especially among the educated lot and especially when we're talking about Black communities with majority educated Black families. IF these findings are true, then I think that what the study is low key suggesting Black women do is problematic. When you apply the findings, the study leaves these pertinent questions unanswered.

 

[UmSumayyah]

CTFU = Cracking the F up.

Thank you. My mind keeps trying to say "Come the F On" but the "u" kept messing that up.