'marrying Down' Costs Educated Women $25k A Year

[naturalgyrl5199]

I know what/who she's referring to.

The first architect I ever met was black. He went to Howard for undergrad but was in his 30s and lived in nyc. He's very well educated but a contractor and worKS on construction sites all day. I asked him why wasn't he an architect in the traditional sense and he said because they're all white gay men.

Yep. Many men who are into architecture can make more money if they have some interior design services they can add.

 

[naturalgyrl5199]

But is that an exclusion or the norm? It's NOT the norm.

Most blue collar jobs are minimum wage - $17 an hour. In most cities in the US are blue collar workers making 80-100K? HECK NO. Lets not fool ourselves.

Can the salary vary? Of course. Same for the educated. A social worker just starting out in rural AL may make $17 an hour. A pharmacist in NY may make $80 an hour.

Also not an education usually garuantee you a decent salary across the board. If you were lucky enough to get a 65K job as a blue collar worker, doesn't mean you will luck out again. I know of 2 people who's gone through that. But if they had an education, they could earn the same or more.

Agreed. This is NOT the norm. I definitely am not suggesting a woman go a marry a guy with a long record who can barely afford union fees and has to hang out in the Temp Job lines hoping he gets picked up that day. I made a really long post about certain examples...but I simply wanted to say not to throw the baby out with the bathwater! I still am pro education for people of color all day. And as mentioned up thread...many people still work "blue collar" type careers but leverage better salaries cause they have a degree.

 

[LiftedUp]

Everyone wants differently though. I don't know why we have to put down one type of profession to promote another. Many of us, at one point in our lineage, had a blue collared man who took care of his family. Without blue collared workers, we wouldn't have many of the amenities we enjoy. They are needed and are valuable members of society.

 

[Christina Dior]

I don't get why people are so sure that if a black person gets a bachelors in whatever the hell...that it will make getting a job easier or that if MORE black people get a degree, that it will somehow help the community as a whole. There are studies showing that even uneducated whites are doing better than black degreed men. All of these MBA degrees *WE* have as a people and many blacks still have no business to administer to. Just look at all the uneducated Arabs, Asians, and Latinos in predominately Black neighborhoods opening businesses. I am for all types of education not just the education (University style) that fixes WYPPIPO problems because essentially in this country, we go to their schools to fix their problems not ours. I really think education isn't just about getting a job for IBM or Coca Cola. Education is for survival as a people.

 

[naturalgyrl5199]

I've always said and stuck to it that I would date a man that makes less than me as long as he can keep up with my lifestyle. I'm over 40 and never had any issues meeting good, educated, financially stable black men. As a black woman I was married to a college educated man that I met in college. Relationship after that an MIT grad making good money and currently dating an ex military man with a college degree making good money. and guess what I found the last 2 *gasp*online at match.com. I don't know how much my current bf makes nor did I know what the last made. I know they owned homes, could travel and didn't ask me for jack! So Don't let these types of articles tell you what's out there and what may be your fate and don't settle for less because you think you will be alone. In between my relationships I received all types of backlash as to why I was STILL single and was called picky. I know what I want and I know what I want to do in life and I wanted a life partner that would be able to do these things with me. I travel out of the country frequently and this was #1 on my list in finding a mate. A man that has a sense of adventure and the money to be my travel companion several times a year. I never settled for less than that since this was my passion. I have and would date outside my race but good black men ARE out there.

Also, I've never been in the frame of mind that my man has to make enough to take care of me but more so that we build together financially. I don't understand women that marry for this reason but it's not my thing. The stay at home mom thing was not for me and I had no desire to do that. I would go stir crazy. I always want to contribute financially to my home.

There are nuances for sure.
Full disclosure: When I got married I was finishing Grad school and hubby was the one working. The first job I got 3 weeks after graduation I was making around $7K more than him. Then that moved to $15K more than him 3 years in because I was promoted twice within 3 years. Then he got a raise and we were making the exact same salary. We had a baby during year 7 but we planned, and had all kind of insurances, and savings plans and HE managed the finances. I didn't have a "lifestyle" before we got married but he gifted me LOTS of expensive things (during our courtship) that he knew I liked and to me that was a testament to his understanding of ME (him wanting to impress) and his ability to do A LOT on LESS. He is an AWESOME money manager and savings guy. I told him what I wanted to achieve with respect to buying a home, saving, traveling, etc...and he has been consistent in my desires for our family, future and the desire to retire by age 60. We are also on track for one child's college fund. On the outside looking in with no knowledge, I would have been considered marrying DOWN. Am I losing money like the article said? Possibly. Maybe would have been able to go to more exotic locales rather than just the Continental US and the Caribbean before we had a kid. There is always going to be a woulda, coulda, shoulda. I cannot for the life of me spend too much time worrying about the what if. Initially I myself considered the same thing...but hey...I was in LOVE. And I saw potential that continued to increase. He was so....just unambitious when we met. Wanted to do the bare minimum. But his beginnings were so humble it was a miracle him and his siblings even MADE IT TO college. But he comes from a humble but HARD WORKING STOCK! It never crossed his mind to be a black man who globe trotted but he is eager too...cause that's how I was raised...he was raised just to GET OUT of where he is...get a degree and do enough not to struggle....But he told me point blank that I showed him MORE. Anyways as long as we can stay gainfully employed where we are and continue on this path, we'll get to Africa soon. As a family. Our goal this year is to see how we as a family can produce a product and actually brand ourselves and our talents (me health, him IT) into an actual stream of income. So yeah.......Nuances...oh well.

ETA: Of course we've both been raised/promoted again...me once and him twice. Him before me...We both direct a division for large departments. The little bugger is out-earning me by a bit. I get a little miffed because I wonder that now he has his stride career-wise...me having more degrees and responsibilites...is it a male/female disparity we are running into with our salaries. But we're better than good.

 

[naturalgyrl5199]

Everyone wants differently though. I don't know why we have to put down one type of profession to promote another. Many of us, at one point in our lineage, had a blue collared man who took care of his family. Without blue collared workers, we wouldn't have many of the amenities we enjoy. They are needed and are valuable members of society.

Boom.
It was one of the ways we built a little wealth after the depression. The problem is whites saw that, and as we tried to move into better neighborhoods we were blocked from wealth via real estate and land. When were couldn't be blocked via legislature, they fled their suburbs. They also refused to even have trash be picked up so black neighborhoods were considered ghettos because it was assumed we were dirty. No they didn't want to send the garbage man (who were mostly white in those days).

I also always tell the story of my granddad who with a 2nd grade education taught himself to read. He built a small construction company and brought in his 4 sons into the business over time. His daughters helped with book keeping. He sent all but one to college. One son had a TBI due to being hit on the football field. Most went to black colleges. My dad had a football scholarship to Lane College (a black school) and is now in the Lane Hall of Fame. Oh and he paid Cash for all not on scholarship. Morehouse, Spelman, and Morris Brown, Lane college and University of Florida but my youngest uncle was attacked there by Whites who tried to kill him. He also was on scholarship. That's when tuition cost you HUNDREDS a semester.

 

[naturalgyrl5199]

I don't get why people are so sure that if a black person gets a bachelors in whatever the hell...that it will make getting a job easier or that if MORE black people get a degree, that it will somehow help the community as a whole. There are studies showing that even uneducated whites are doing better than black degreed men. All of these MBA degrees *WE* have as a people and many blacks still have no business to administer to. Just look at all the uneducated Arabs, Asians, and Latinos in predominately Black neighborhoods opening businesses. I am for all types of education not just the education (University style) that fixes WYPPIPO problems because essentially in this country, we go to their schools to fix their problems not ours. I really think education isn't just about getting a job for IBM or Coca Cola. Education is for survival as a people.

I think this has a lot to do with where you attend. My friends who got their MBA's from an HBCU were placed in GREAT internships where companies were running to scoop them up to improve diversity....and all continue to work in business making 6-figs. I really feel that many PWIs are doing a poor job (as a whole) with transitioning POC to good jobs after college. I think HBCUs do a much better job for their own people. They also do a good job transitioning to entrepreneurship. These HBCUs continue to be attacked, and many are imploding due to what I am now learning is political sabatoge, and legislative "magic" that creates conditions for the schools to literally go the way of Morris Brown and implode. BCU, FAMU, and several HBCUs in GA and LA are in severe danger. Some self-inflicted due to Patriarchy...but that's another issue.

 

[naturalgyrl5199]

I don't get why people are so sure that if a black person gets a bachelors in whatever the hell...that it will make getting a job easier or that if MORE black people get a degree, that it will somehow help the community as a whole. There are studies showing that even uneducated whites are doing better than black degreed men. All of these MBA degrees *WE* have as a people and many blacks still have no business to administer to. Just look at all the uneducated Arabs, Asians, and Latinos in predominately Black neighborhoods opening businesses. I am for all types of education not just the education (University style) that fixes WYPPIPO problems because essentially in this country, we go to their schools to fix their problems not ours. I really think education isn't just about getting a job for IBM or Coca Cola. Education is for survival as a people.

We also have to realize that Blacks in the US were stunted horribly coming out of the post-slavery years. Its like we "tripped" in a race and are still behind. POC who come over from the Middle East, Asia, and many parts of Africa were already from affluent families in their areas. So they brought a skill and a talent and enjoyed the benefit of being first class citizens and knew how to comfortably assert themselves. They were educated adequately where our kids continue to suffer from racist teachers as early as pre-school for simply speaking up. This was not their reality from childhood in their respective countries of birth so they didn't have that kind of subconscious fear or a chip on their shoulder.
So they came over generations ago, laid roots, avoided some kinds of overt racism, enjoyed some of the benefits immigrants can get (we got back then without so much scrutiny) and did WORK. had kids and now for Hispanics, Asians and some Middle easterners who have been here since the 60's and 70's...they have built wealth in a very short time that Blacks as a whole have been unable to do for a century. They have (especially Hispanics) have had a population explosion for the history books that have ensured their place here in the US as "better" than us...and so forth with all the perks and benefits of being the squeaky wheel who gets the oil.

 

[Christina Dior]

Boom.
It was one of the ways we built a little wealth after the depression. The problem is whites saw that, and as we tried to move into better neighborhoods we were blocked from wealth via real estate and land. When were couldn't be blocked via legislature, they fled their suburbs. They also refused to even have trash be picked up so black neighborhoods were considered ghettos because it was assumed we were dirty. No they didn't want to send the garbage man (who were mostly white in those days).

I also always tell the story of my granddad who with a 2nd grade education taught himself to read. He built a small construction company and brought in his 4 sons into the business over time. His daughters helped with book keeping. He sent all but one to college. One son had a TBI due to being hit on the football field. Most went to black colleges. My dad had a football scholarship to Lane College (a black school) and is now in the Lane Hall of Fame. Oh and he paid Cash for all not on scholarship. Morehouse, Spelman, and Morris Brown, Lane college and University of Florida but my youngest uncle was attacked there by Whites who tried to kill him. He also was on scholarship. That's when tuition cost you HUNDREDS a semester.

We can spend all day on HBCU's and the state they are in and how poorly ran they are. It's amazing, I mean amazing! How blacks are the face of these big name colleges, NBA and NFL, ESPN etc yet hbcus are struggling like a mug. I get why talented college athletes hardly choose to take their talents to black schools but DAMN !!! Smh but I agree with you

 

[Menina Preta]

This is one silly post. Blue-collared does not always mean lack of education or physically broken. Take construction, for instance. Do you know how much bank is in construction? I'll just give one example here, but my BLACK husband is a contractor and architect by trade. He recently closed in on a significant construction project that will NET us over $1 million, all through his own company that he built from the ground up.

I met him at a time when his company was fairly new, and things were financially lean. He hustled, he networked, and I was there to not just listen but also get involved, too. We would bid on projects that we either didn't get or was placed on hold, but we kept pushing together, until we got that one break.

If I had listened to women like you, I won't be here today enjoying the fruits of my husband's labor. He opened my eyes to a world I never thought possible, where being your own boss is truly the path to sustainable wealth. And we're just starting out. I will be completing law school in a few months and plan to be counsel for my husband's company. He has also put another company venture he created into my name, with a similar but different target goal. Together, we plan to work and build a legacy together.

Nowadays, higher education does not guarantee any type of job. I have seen "educated" men with PhDs, JDs, MAs, etc. often having to return to learn technical skills, or go into nursing, just to survive.

Please do not knock blue-collared men. You know not what you speak.

That's great for you and your hubby! Congrats! I agree people shouldn't knock blue collar guys but also your DH is not the typical construction guy. You met him when he was forming a company. That's different than being a construction dude who freelances on other folks' projects. Those guys still make money but the cash flow comes and goes depending on the type of job.

I think your post highlights the most important thing to look for in a partner and that is ambition. Any man with a lot of ambition and actual receipts to back up his overall plan has the makings of a good partner regardless of what sector he works in*...

*Caveat: This does not apply to the music or arts industry.

 

[naturalgyrl5199]

We can spend all day on HBCU's and the state they are in and how poorly ran they are. It's amazing, I mean amazing! How blacks are the face of these big name colleges, NBA and NFL, ESPN etc yet hbcus are struggling like a mug. I get why talented college athletes hardly choose to take their talents to black schools but DAMN !!! Smh but I agree with you

And its frustrating. Its SILLY how we're not able to leverage our talents of our children back to HBCUs.
A well-kept secret in the south (well all over is that the NCAA and power-house football programs from California to Florida was BUILT on the backs of black talent--especially home grown in the South)...you see....ever so often, a big school will play an HBCU....going back to the 70's this was happening when HBCUs were building football programs. Schools like Alcon State, FAMU, Bethune would play FSU, or UM and beat the pants off those white boys. White people didn't get BIG mad but they got Big even. And the rest is history. HBCUs cannot recruit REAL black talent. HBCUs were even barred from being Division I A schools (something created to keep HBCU's off the big stage), whereas smalls schools like TCU (think LaDanian Tomlinson) were more likely to squeeze in so they could be center stage and shake things up. FAMU sent MANY kids to the NFL since the 70's but only in the last 5-7 years were they allowed to be a Division 1A School. Most are Division IIA. Anyways...same for the eradication of the FAMU Law school some 40 years ago, and now for the almost eradication of their Engineering school which is a joint school with FSU that is now about to be only FSU.....I've digressed. I'm frustrated.

 

[Crackers Phinn]

We really have to drop the narrative that education does black folks no good. Two out of 10 AA's have a college degree. TWO out of TEN. A quarter of those TWO have a masters/phd. We don't have enough education to rub together collectively to make the argument that AA's are losing out because education failed us.

Lack of education can be attributed to at least half the L's the black community takes on the regular and why we usually end up taking them harder than other groups. For example, predatory mortgage lending. Hell predatory everything when it comes to banking/savings/credit/Rush Cards etc. "We" don't know what we don't know and it costs us dearly because in the long run ignorance is expensive.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'm from Detroit. You know that place where they used to make cars. My parents were blue collar. All of their friends were blue collar. The majority of our family is blue collar. There were no Joe...I mean Leroy the plumber millionaire's next door. Think about it, if the majority of blue collar folks were out here making $100K driving UPS trucks, working construction and whatever else virtuous manly man jobs people extol, would our communities really look the way they look?

 

[Christina Dior]

We really have to drop the narrative that education does black folks no good. Two out of 10 AA's have a college degree. TWO out of TEN. A quarter of those TWO have a masters/phd. We don't have enough education to rub together collectively to make the argument that AA's are losing out because education failed us.

Lack of education can be attributed to at least half the L's the black community takes on the regular and why we usually end up taking them harder than other groups. For example, predatory mortgage lending. Hell predatory everything when it comes to banking/savings/credit/Rush Cards etc. "We" don't know what we don't know and it costs us dearly because in the long run ignorance is expensive.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'm from Detroit. You know that place where they used to make cars. My parents were blue collar. All of their friends were blue collar. The majority of our family is blue collar. There were no Joe...I mean Leroy the plumber millionaire's next door. Think about it, if the majority of blue collar folks were out here making $100K driving UPS trucks, working construction and whatever else virtuous manly man jobs people extol, would our communities really look the way they look?

Because college teaches 18-22 year old's about credit cards, how to buy a home, and how to save money? College is a business, a business who isn't in the business for teaching communities about their finances. Those things can be taught as early as fifth grade. The reason Black people and their communities are in the shitttter is not because they haven't signed up to attend the University of Chicago.

ETA:

It sounds like some people are saying that the white man has all the jobs and that all blacks need to do is go to college to get them. College doesn't teach you analytical thinking or concrete concepts, these things are cultivated and rooted in a person way before college. Black people need to make their own way create their own employment with or without college . There are not enough jobs for college educated wypipo and there won't be enough if all blacks sign up for a 4 year degree all of a sudden.

 

[DarkJoy]

That's different than being a construction dude who freelances on other folks' projects. Those guys still make money but the cash flow comes and goes depending on the type of job.

Right and the cash flow is also seasonal for the average construction guy. there's no work during the winter months. that's 25% annual lost income unless he's enterprising and does other things during those times.

 

[okange76]

IMO I think we go about the blue collar trades the wrong way. We talk about working for other people.

Blue collar entrepreneurship is the way to go. Own your own gig and provide excellent customer service. Word of mouth is a powerful tool. One of my exes from years ago was a licensed carpenter who made those $5000 custom beds and $2000 custom chests etc. He was overwhelmed with work because he was so good. He had to hire people to help him do the painting, polishing and shipping. His clientele was mostly rich WW up and down New England. He made a boatload of cash. He's Kenyan like me.

Entrepreneurship is the way to go. Owning a custom autobody shop will net you big bucks. Men are obsessive about their cars and bikes and will pay $000 for a paint job, rims, tires etc.

What's the difference if your husband is an accountant bringing home $100K or an electrician or plumber with his own small business, staff of 2 people, bringing home the same amount of money? Money is money so long as it legally obtained.

 

[DarkJoy]

I agree.

Speaking of auto Mechanics, there's a niche soon to be filled with mobile Mechanics. nows a great time for a BM with mechanic credentials to hop in and make a killing. he can have a whole fleet of licensed Mechanics fixing cars at ppl locations. and if the start up can get on the auto insurance rosters where ppl can use them under their insurance plans, it will be making cash hand over fist.

eta. I'm not against blue collar just just the AMBITIONLESS who seem ok with not much more than minimum wage and seasonal work their whole lives. those men are time wasters

 

[GreenEyedJen]

So. After reading through this thread, I've debated whether or not to post my real feelings on the subject. I don't want to offend. It's not directed to any posters in particular.

As I've stated before, I'm from a two parent, well educated, Black household. My parents met in law school in the South. I was raised in an all white area in the North. I have dated out more often than not. The caliber of men I attracted by race was night and day. I'd either get Bobby the Broker or Jerome the Janitor. No in between. I have been proposed to by two white men. Both were doing well. The main reason why I declined was because of their race. I just couldn't get over that. My current SO is a well educated, handsome, fun Black man. He's also from a two parent, Black, educated household. Like, he's amazing, for real. I never seriously thought about settling down until I met him. I'm so happy in this relationship that sometimes I get scared.

Anyway. I realized that the reason I was attracting a different type of guy based on race was because how I was presenting myself. White men can be mediocre and get ahead, so they aren't even really used to doing their best. Black people really can't do that, and that's where I was messing up. I don't want to say I'm a lazy person--but I can be a lazy person (haha). I'm also a Taurus so I like nice, luxurious things. My "good enough" is most people's "best" so it didn't even really dawn on me for a minute. I'd do "just enough" to have my nice stuff and have fun. A Black man that's really on his game can sense that--and won't want that quality in his mate and possibly passed down to his children. So even though I was making money, getting promotions, stayed pretty, stayed fun...I was getting **** to choose from in terms of Black men.

What I have seen and read on this forum often doesn't comport with my experience in this arena. For example, someone posted awhile ago that they will be "marrying up", and when they do, their child would have a BMW in high school and a job to pay off their student loans (or something like that). I can tell you, the Black guys that would be "marrying up" material would run from that person--because WHY does your child have student loans AND a BMW? If you're spending the money for them to have a bimmer, then you better be able to pay for their tuition out of pocket, no loans necessary. The kicker is...this poster's ideas on dating/mating are highly sought after on this forum. It seems like the majority of single women here think that's something to strive for (an 18 yr old with a BMW and student loans). You can have that--but it probably won't be while you're "married up" to a Black man. A white man, maybe.

In reality, not all of us can marry up, but it isn't just because there are a lack of men. IMO, the Black men that are "marrying up" material DO want Black women--but Black women that are on their level economically aren't always there in other ways. And just like we don't want to teach a man, they don't want to teach us either.

I'm still hesitant to post this, because I don't want it to seem like I'm "coming" for Black women. I'm not. I love us and have never wanted to be anything else.

 

[Crackers Phinn]

Because college teaches 18-22 year old's about credit cards, how to buy a home, and how to save money?

I was a finance major so yeah, college taught me the theory of all of the above and I learned the rest in practice from working in the banking industry in jobs that required a college degree.

College is a business, a business who isn't in the business for teaching communities about their finances. Those things can be taught as early as fifth grade. The reason Black people and their communities are in the shitttter is not because they haven't signed up to attend the University of Chicago.

Those things used to be taught as early as fifth grade but since inner city schools barely have the tax base or parental participation to support a basic curriculum, home economics died long ago and nobody has taken it upon themselves to bring it back. Yet another way lack of education keeps the black community catching these L's.

Oh and you need a degree to be a public school teacher in all 50 states. That's not an accident.

 

[PrissiSippi]

So. After reading through this thread, I've debated whether or not to post my real feelings on the subject. I don't want to offend. It's not directed to any posters in particular.

As I've stated before, I'm from a two parent, well educated, Black household. My parents met in law school in the South. I was raised in an all white area in the North. I have dated out more often than not. The caliber of men I attracted by race was night and day. I'd either get Bobby the Broker or Jerome the Janitor. No in between. I have been proposed to by two white men. Both were doing well. The main reason why I declined was because of their race. I just couldn't get over that. My current SO is a well educated, handsome, fun Black man. He's also from a two parent, Black, educated household. Like, he's amazing, for real. I never seriously thought about settling down until I met him. I'm so happy in this relationship that sometimes I get scared.

Anyway. I realized that the reason I was attracting a different type of guy based on race was because how I was presenting myself. White men can be mediocre and get ahead, so they aren't even really used to doing their best. Black people really can't do that, and that's where I was messing up. I don't want to say I'm a lazy person--but I can be a lazy person (haha). I'm also a Taurus so I like nice, luxurious things. My "good enough" is most people's "best" so it didn't even really dawn on me for a minute. I'd do "just enough" to have my nice stuff and have fun. A Black man that's really on his game can sense that--and won't want that quality in his mate and possibly passed down to his children. So even though I was making money, getting promotions, stayed pretty, stayed fun...I was getting **** to choose from in terms of Black men.

What I have seen and read on this forum often doesn't comport with my experience in this arena. For example, someone posted awhile ago that they will be "marrying up", and when they do, their child would have a BMW in high school and a job to pay off their student loans (or something like that). I can tell you, the Black guys that would be "marrying up" material would run from that person--because WHY does your child have student loans AND a BMW? If you're spending the money for them to have a bimmer, then you better be able to pay for their tuition out of pocket, no loans necessary. The kicker is...this poster's ideas on dating/mating are highly sought after on this forum. It seems like the majority of single women here think that's something to strive for (an 18 yr old with a BMW and student loans). You can have that--but it probably won't be while you're "married up" to a Black man. A white man, maybe.

In reality, not all of us can marry up, but it isn't just because there are a lack of men. IMO, the Black men that are "marrying up" material DO want Black women--but Black women that are on their level economically aren't always there in other ways. And just like we don't want to teach a man, they don't want to teach us either.

I'm still hesitant to post this, because I don't want it to seem like I'm "coming" for Black women. I'm not. I love us and have never wanted to be anything else.

Ehhh. This is Unicorn land. People say they won't have children unless they could afford to be a stay at home mom, buy the kids a Beamer, send them to school with no student loans, man with six figures at LEAST, been out the country 10+ times, and a long list of other attributes that are hard to almost impossible to obtain. That stuff goes in one ear and out the other for me. Lol I believe half of what see and none of what I hear on here when it comes to stuff like that.

I do agree. We do preach that women need to "marry up" and I agree that they do, but it's a special type of woman that a man would even entertain that it's worth his time to let her "marry up" on his expense. Now those characteristics...would make for a great thread.

 

[Southernbella.]

So. After reading through this thread, I've debated whether or not to post my real feelings on the subject. I don't want to offend. It's not directed to any posters in particular.

As I've stated before, I'm from a two parent, well educated, Black household. My parents met in law school in the South. I was raised in an all white area in the North. I have dated out more often than not. The caliber of men I attracted by race was night and day. I'd either get Bobby the Broker or Jerome the Janitor. No in between. I have been proposed to by two white men. Both were doing well. The main reason why I declined was because of their race. I just couldn't get over that. My current SO is a well educated, handsome, fun Black man. He's also from a two parent, Black, educated household. Like, he's amazing, for real. I never seriously thought about settling down until I met him. I'm so happy in this relationship that sometimes I get scared.

Anyway. I realized that the reason I was attracting a different type of guy based on race was because how I was presenting myself. White men can be mediocre and get ahead, so they aren't even really used to doing their best. Black people really can't do that, and that's where I was messing up. I don't want to say I'm a lazy person--but I can be a lazy person (haha). I'm also a Taurus so I like nice, luxurious things. My "good enough" is most people's "best" so it didn't even really dawn on me for a minute. I'd do "just enough" to have my nice stuff and have fun. A Black man that's really on his game can sense that--and won't want that quality in his mate and possibly passed down to his children. So even though I was making money, getting promotions, stayed pretty, stayed fun...I was getting **** to choose from in terms of Black men.

What I have seen and read on this forum often doesn't comport with my experience in this arena. For example, someone posted awhile ago that they will be "marrying up", and when they do, their child would have a BMW in high school and a job to pay off their student loans (or something like that). I can tell you, the Black guys that would be "marrying up" material would run from that person--because WHY does your child have student loans AND a BMW? If you're spending the money for them to have a bimmer, then you better be able to pay for their tuition out of pocket, no loans necessary. The kicker is...this poster's ideas on dating/mating are highly sought after on this forum. It seems like the majority of single women here think that's something to strive for (an 18 yr old with a BMW and student loans). You can have that--but it probably won't be while you're "married up" to a Black man. A white man, maybe.

In reality, not all of us can marry up, but it isn't just because there are a lack of men. IMO, the Black men that are "marrying up" material DO want Black women--but Black women that are on their level economically aren't always there in other ways. And just like we don't want to teach a man, they don't want to teach us either.

I'm still hesitant to post this, because I don't want it to seem like I'm "coming" for Black women. I'm not. I love us and have never wanted to be anything else.

It's so funny you posted this. I was just watching the Girlfriends episode where Toni wanted to date a black real estate investor she knew. He was heavyset and average looking but rich. He turned her down and she couldn't figure it out and finally he basically told her that she wasn't on his level and he only dated women who were going somewhere. Toni was confused because she's beautiful and successful but he was like nah, you're comfortable. I wanna be part of a power couple and you aren't driven enough.

And what I see in my younger male friend is very similar. He is going to be wealthy and successful, I have no doubt about that. He's well on his way. And he only seriously dates women who are just as ambitious as he is. It's interesting to me because he's not someone that, on a moral level, I would say is a catch (hint: he worships Future). But he's educated and very ambitious and he refuses to lower his standards when it comes to women he isn't just sexing.

All that to say I think there's some truth to what you say.

However, it kind of annoys me in a way because it's another case of bw having to be extra special and having to bring extra stuff to the table to be worthy.

 

[PrissiSippi]

IMO I think we go about the blue collar trades the wrong way. We talk about working for other people.


What's the difference if your husband is an accountant bringing home $100K or an electrician or plumber with his own small business, staff of 2 people, bringing home the same amount of money? Money is money so long as it legally obtained.

The difference I see is it depends on how the blue collar worker runs his business. I used to date a blue collar worker and yes he makes close to 60k a year but there is no money set aside for his retirement, no health insurance, no life insurance, no stability meaning that if he doesn't work he doesn't get paid, no short term disability, and etc. Money is not money in all cases. The benefits that come from being a white collar worker are to be coveted.

 

[Crackers Phinn]

ETA:

It sounds like some people are saying that the white man has all the jobs and that all blacks need to do is go to college to get them. College doesn't teach you analytical thinking or concrete concepts, these things are cultivated and rooted in a person way before college. Black people need to make their own way create their own employment with or without college . There are not enough jobs for college educated wypipo and there won't be enough if all blacks sign up for a 4 year degree all of a sudden.

8 out of 10 black people have no college education. This is the overwhelming majority. If the knowledge base and deductive reasoning ability we collectively have at present was enough to establish the creation of our own employment, strengthen our school systems and make us self sufficient then we would be doing it already.

 

[gimbap]

What I have seen and read on this forum often doesn't comport with my experience in this arena. For example, someone posted awhile ago that they will be "marrying up", and when they do, their child would have a BMW in high school and a job to pay off their student loans (or something like that). I can tell you, the Black guys that would be "marrying up" material would run from that person--because WHY does your child have student loans AND a BMW? If you're spending the money for them to have a bimmer, then you better be able to pay for their tuition out of pocket, no loans necessary. The kicker is...this poster's ideas on dating/mating are highly sought after on this forum. It seems like the majority of single women here think that's something to strive for (an 18 yr old with a BMW and student loans). You can have that--but it probably won't be while you're "married up" to a Black man. A white man, maybe.

I interpreted this situation as their kid having a BMW and them [the parent(s)/the poster] having enough money to pay off THEIR student loans, not take out new loans and pay them off. But I understand the overall concept of your post

 

[Christina Dior]

I was a finance major so yeah, college taught me the theory of all of the above and I learned the rest in practice from working in the banking industry in jobs that required a college degree.


Those things used to be taught as early as fifth grade but since inner city schools barely have the tax base or parental participation to support a basic curriculum, home economics died long ago and nobody has taken it upon themselves to bring it back. Yet another way lack of education keeps the black community catching these L's.

Oh and you need a degree to be a public school teacher in all 50 states. That's not an accident.

Most students black or white are not majoring in finance nor accounting. As far as teachers needing a degree to teach not being an accident, the curriculum in most public schools being shittty is not an accident either . No shade to teachers

 

[Crackers Phinn]

IMO I think we go about the blue collar trades the wrong way. We talk about working for other people.

Blue collar entrepreneurship is the way to go. Own your own gig and provide excellent customer service. Word of mouth is a powerful tool. One of my exes from years ago was a licensed carpenter who made those $5000 custom beds and $2000 custom chests etc. He was overwhelmed with work because he was so good. He had to hire people to help him do the painting, polishing and shipping. His clientele was mostly rich WW up and down New England. He made a boatload of cash. He's Kenyan like me.

Entrepreneurship is the way to go. Owning a custom autobody shop will net you big bucks. Men are obsessive about their cars and bikes and will pay $000 for a paint job, rims, tires etc.

What's the difference if your husband is an accountant bringing home $100K or an electrician or plumber with his own small business, staff of 2 people, bringing home the same amount of money? Money is money so long as it legally obtained.

 

[Southernbella.]

It's so funny you posted this. I was just watching the Girlfriends episode where Toni wanted to date a black real estate investor she knew. He was heavyset and average looking but rich. He turned her down and she couldn't figure it out and finally he basically told her that she wasn't on his level and he only dated women who were going somewhere. Toni was confused because she's beautiful and successful but he was like nah, you're comfortable. I wanna be part of a power couple and you aren't driven enough.

And what I see in my younger male friend is very similar. He is going to be wealthy and successful, I have no doubt about that. He's well on his way. And he only seriously dates women who are just as ambitious as he is. It's interesting to me because he's not someone that, on a moral level, I would say is a catch (hint: he worships Future). But he's educated and very ambitious and he refuses to lower his standards when it comes to women he isn't just sexing.

All that to say I think there's some truth to what you say.

However, it kind of annoys me in a way because it's another case of bw having to be extra special and having to bring extra stuff to the table to be worthy.

Oh and quoting myself because this reminds me of something I said in another thread that's kinda off topic but here it is.

This dude only dates bw and will only marry a bw (he sexes others but nothing more). I jokingly asked him why he keeps playing around when there are all these young single women in Atlanta and he said, and I quote, "it's too many options down here. It's hard to make up my mind."

These negroes know bw are always an option so there is no urgency. Stop announcing that you are willing to wait forever for your black king. They have eyes, they know there are lots of good single black women who are waiting around to be chose. Announcing your undying loyalty does not help you in any way. Even if it's a lie, let them think you have plenty of options too and won't be around forever. You don't have to do what Serena did to create the feeding frenzy Serena created.

 

[GreenEyedJen]

It's so funny you posted this. I was just watching the Girlfriends episode where Toni wanted to date a black real estate investor she knew. He was heavyset and average looking but rich. He turned her down and she couldn't figure it out and finally he basically told her that she wasn't on his level and he only dated women who were going somewhere. Toni was confused because she's beautiful and successful but he was like nah, you're comfortable. I wanna be part of a power couple and you aren't driven enough.

And what I see in my younger male friend is very similar. He is going to be wealthy and successful, I have no doubt about that. He's well on his way. And he only seriously dates women who are just as ambitious as he is. It's interesting to me because he's not someone that, on a moral level, I would say is a catch (hint: he worships Future). But he's educated and very ambitious and he refuses to lower his standards when it comes to women he isn't just sexing.

All that to say I think there's some truth to what you say.

However, it kind of annoys me in a way because it's another case of bw having to be extra special and having to bring extra stuff to the table to be worthy.

So, the power couple thing is EXACTLY what my current SO said when we decided to date exclusively. That's what he wanted and that's what he saw when he saw me.

As to the bolded: that's why I was hesitant to post. Because, like, is it really bringing something extra, or is it wanting his woman to do the best she can? Like, for me, I can say my man wants me to do the best I can, period. He wants me to take the Bar in a new state if/when we move, not because I want to practice again but because he wants me to be able to say I've done it. He wants me to try for these promotions because I'd be the best person for the job. And I'm pretty sure he'd motivate anyone he dated the same way. I don't feel like he wants more from me than he wants from others he would date. He just wants me to live up to my potential. But I'm not everyone and have not dated everyone, so I see the possibility of the requirements being different for non-Blacks. I have not seen it in the true "marrying up" Black guys I know, though.

 

[GreenEyedJen]

I interpreted this situation as their kid having a BMW and them [the parent(s)/the poster] having enough money to pay off THEIR student loans, not take out new loans and pay them off. But I understand the overall concept of your post

But why wouldn't your student loans be paid off well before your child had a BMW? The way you describe it is the same line of thinking these men are avoiding.

 

[Southernbella.]

So, the power couple thing is EXACTLY what my current SO said when we decided to date exclusively. That's what he wanted and that's what he saw when he saw me.

As to the bolded: that's why I was hesitant to post. Because, like, is it really bringing something extra, or is it wanting his woman to do the best she can? Like, for me, I can say my man wants me to do the best I can, period. He wants me to take the Bar in a new state if/when we move, not because I want to practice again but because he wants me to be able to say I've done it. He wants me to try for these promotions because I'd be the best person for the job. And I'm pretty sure he'd motivate anyone he dated the same way. I don't feel like he wants more from me than he wants from others he would date. He just wants me to live up to my potential.

And that's why I said not everyone can marry up. I really didn't want it to come off like "because not everyone can"...but not everyone can.

No I totally get what you mean. I already know I'm not good enough to be part of a true power couple. I can be lazy and too comfortable. And I don't see anything fundamentally wrong with men wanting that either. I just wish super successful BM were just as willing to marry down (when marrying bw) as are their female counterparts.

 

[LaBelleLL]

This thread has started to give me anxiety. Has this happened to anyone else?