'marrying Down' Costs Educated Women $25k A Year

[qchelle]

Oh and quoting myself because this reminds me of something I said in another thread that's kinda off topic but here it is.

This dude only dates bw and will only marry a bw (he sexes others but nothing more). I jokingly asked him why he keeps playing around when there are all these young single women in Atlanta and he said, and I quote, "it's too many options down here. It's hard to make up my mind."

These negroes know bw are always an option so there is no urgency. Stop announcing that you are willing to wait forever for your black king. They have eyes, they know there are lots of good single black women who are waiting around to be chose. Announcing your undying loyalty does not help you in any way. Even if it's a lie, let them think you have plenty of options too and won't be around forever. You don't have to do what Serena did to create the feeding frenzy Serena created.

This reminds me of the time me and my SO were talking about past flings and white people and my SO said something like "and I gotta watch you, cuz we both know you like them *sideeye*" I just laughed and said uh huh (ex is white)

I'm glad yall elaborated on what was meant by bw not being "good enough". I thought green-eyed was talking about looks!

But that's an interesting observation. But it's also true that a lot of rich and powerful men want wives who are the complete opposite, right?

 

[okange76]

True, obviously he needs to be able to save and plan for retirement which you can do as a business owner. I work in Financial services and you don't need an employer to make it work. There are tools for every level of income. Hopefully if ACA survives he can buy healthcare or be on his wife's plan if she's working. He also needs to marry a woman who can step in when things are tough. You can't just sit back as a woman with no safety net or game plan. Even if you are a SAHM you need plan B to save the family if ish hits the fan. Men are human too and once in awhile stuff happens that is out of their control.

The difference I see is it depends on how the blue collar worker runs his business. I used to date a blue collar worker and yes he makes close to 60k a year but there is no money set aside for his retirement, no health insurance, no life insurance, no stability meaning that if he doesn't work he doesn't get paid, no short term disability, and etc. Money is not money in all cases. The benefits that come from being a white collar worker are to be coveted.

 

[Crackers Phinn]

This thread has started to give me anxiety. Has this happened to anyone else?

I feel anxiety all the time in trying to get my nieces married off. I belong to a sewing circle full of married Jewish women my age and older who are matchmaking their a--es off and getting the girls in their family down the aisle. Hell, they got me down the aisle.

I feel like time is not on my side before at least a couple of my nieces go the baby mama route because they are tired of waiting on dudes to do right.

 

[Brwnbeauti]

Most students black or white are not majoring in finance nor accounting. As far as teachers needing a degree to teach not being an accident, the curriculum in most public schools being shittty is not an accident either . No shade to teachers

Teachers don't control curriculum

 

[theRaven]

I feel anxiety all the time in trying to get my nieces married off. I belong to a sewing circle full of married Jewish women my age and older who are matchmaking their butts off and getting the girls in their family down the aisle. Hell, they got me down the aisle.

I feel like time is not on my side before at least a couple of my nieces go the baby mama route because they are tired of waiting on dudes to do right.

I love how committed you are to marrying your nieces off!

 

[Crackers Phinn]

I love how committed you are to marrying your nieces off!

I'm trying to be the advocate for them that I wish I had at their age.

 

[michelle81]

IMO I think we go about the blue collar trades the wrong way. We talk about working for other people.

Blue collar entrepreneurship is the way to go. Own your own gig and provide excellent customer service. Word of mouth is a powerful tool. One of my exes from years ago was a licensed carpenter who made those $5000 custom beds and $2000 custom chests etc. He was overwhelmed with work because he was so good. He had to hire people to help him do the painting, polishing and shipping. His clientele was mostly rich WW up and down New England. He made a boatload of cash. He's Kenyan like me.

Entrepreneurship is the way to go. Owning a custom autobody shop will net you big bucks. Men are obsessive about their cars and bikes and will pay $000 for a paint job, rims, tires etc.

What's the difference if your husband is an accountant bringing home $100K or an electrician or plumber with his own small business, staff of 2 people, bringing home the same amount of money? Money is money so long as it legally obtained.

I was just thinking about this today. I picked my car up from the body shop today to re-fix an issue that was fixed a couple months ago. Great customer service from the owner. I was thinking that wow he has a nice job/career. He makes his own hours, chats with customers all day, and seems to love what he does. He's a white guy, but I would have loved to take my car to a black-owned body shop (I don't think there's one in my town). Great niche to be filled.

 

[Menina Preta]

So. After reading through this thread, I've debated whether or not to post my real feelings on the subject. I don't want to offend. It's not directed to any posters in particular.

As I've stated before, I'm from a two parent, well educated, Black household. My parents met in law school in the South. I was raised in an all white area in the North. I have dated out more often than not. The caliber of men I attracted by race was night and day. I'd either get Bobby the Broker or Jerome the Janitor. No in between. I have been proposed to by two white men. Both were doing well. The main reason why I declined was because of their race. I just couldn't get over that. My current SO is a well educated, handsome, fun Black man. He's also from a two parent, Black, educated household. Like, he's amazing, for real. I never seriously thought about settling down until I met him. I'm so happy in this relationship that sometimes I get scared.

Anyway. I realized that the reason I was attracting a different type of guy based on race was because how I was presenting myself. White men can be mediocre and get ahead, so they aren't even really used to doing their best. Black people really can't do that, and that's where I was messing up. I don't want to say I'm a lazy person--but I can be a lazy person (haha). I'm also a Taurus so I like nice, luxurious things. My "good enough" is most people's "best" so it didn't even really dawn on me for a minute. I'd do "just enough" to have my nice stuff and have fun. A Black man that's really on his game can sense that--and won't want that quality in his mate and possibly passed down to his children. So even though I was making money, getting promotions, stayed pretty, stayed fun...I was getting **** to choose from in terms of Black men.

What I have seen and read on this forum often doesn't comport with my experience in this arena. For example, someone posted awhile ago that they will be "marrying up", and when they do, their child would have a BMW in high school and a job to pay off their student loans (or something like that). I can tell you, the Black guys that would be "marrying up" material would run from that person--because WHY does your child have student loans AND a BMW? If you're spending the money for them to have a bimmer, then you better be able to pay for their tuition out of pocket, no loans necessary. The kicker is...this poster's ideas on dating/mating are highly sought after on this forum. It seems like the majority of single women here think that's something to strive for (an 18 yr old with a BMW and student loans). You can have that--but it probably won't be while you're "married up" to a Black man. A white man, maybe.

In reality, not all of us can marry up, but it isn't just because there are a lack of men. IMO, the Black men that are "marrying up" material DO want Black women--but Black women that are on their level economically aren't always there in other ways. And just like we don't want to teach a man, they don't want to teach us either.

I'm still hesitant to post this, because I don't want it to seem like I'm "coming" for Black women. I'm not. I love us and have never wanted to be anything else.

Good points, but even among BW who have it together career wise, they still complain about the lack of BM on their level financially and career wise.

 

[GreenEyedJen]

Good points, but even among BW who have it together career wise, they still complain about the lack of BM on their level financially and career wise.

Right. According to statistics, not all of us can marry up intraracially. That's fact. However, some of us CAN and are sabotaging ourselves (without even knowing). That's why I mentioned a little about my own story. I've always had it together career-wise in comparison to others. Always had nice things. Still couldn't find a Black man.

Some of us that could be married to a Black unicorn might end up with a different colored one instead. Snagging a Black one is different than snagging a white or yellow one. That's really the gist of what I was trying to say.

 

[LaBelleLL]

I feel anxiety all the time in trying to get my nieces married off. I belong to a sewing circle full of married Jewish women my age and older who are matchmaking their a--es off and getting the girls in their family down the aisle. Hell, they got me down the aisle.

I feel like time is not on my side before at least a couple of my nieces go the baby mama route because they are tired of waiting on dudes to do right.

My older mentors (black men) are telling me to be patient with black men. And I am. I'm single. They beg me not marry anything else. I tell them all about my dating experiences etc. They have nothing to say except to be patient and that they don't know anyone for me yet. Granted I'm not entirely out in the world right now so as to be 100% visible to everyone. I will be very soon. I'm just seeing my family through a tough time right now.

But things are happening outside of my control. And I just don't know what the "right" thing to do is. So I'm anxious. Hella anxious.

ETA: speaking of money - my mom has always told me to build the wealth up with the man. I really see the value in this. After dating some men with money (that's not even that incredibly long), Im much more down with this idea.

 

[Transformer]

Okay, my SIL joined Our Time dating site after brother's death. She has reported that the Black men hit her up for money, request she help them buy a vehicle, or insist on moving into her house at their first meetup. These are men between the age of 60-70. The white ones don't show the same behavior. I jokingly tell her they just want to marry then kill her off for the insurance money.

 

[Femmefatal1981]

No I totally get what you mean. I already know I'm not good enough to be part of a true power couple. I can be lazy and too comfortable. And I don't see anything fundamentally wrong with men wanting that either. I just wish super successful BM were just as willing to marry down (when marrying bw) as are their female counterparts.

But they are...for all of them marrying up does not equal marrying someone who can shine professionally.

Personally I'm skeptical of any man of any race looking to marry up. That's not how this dating/marriage thing works...never has been.

 

[sugarbaybie]

Agreed. This is NOT the norm. I definitely am not suggesting a woman go a marry a guy with a long record who can barely afford union fees and has to hang out in the Temp Job lines hoping he gets picked up that day. I made a really long post about certain examples...but I simply wanted to say not to throw the baby out with the bathwater! I still am pro education for people of color all day. And as mentioned up thread...many people still work "blue collar" type careers but leverage better salaries cause they have a degree.

Certainly their are blue collar that fair out well. and educated people that don't do well. but yes it usually is not the norm. we both are here ><

 

[sugarbaybie]

I'd rather be single than be some white man's stress relief or exotic play. Yup, I said it. Been there, done that.

no single woman wants that. that's not what I'm saying. but if that was your situation and yes it certainly can happen again I don't blame you.

 

[sugarbaybie]

I feel you on this whole post and congrats to you and your husband and many wishes for continued prosperity.

However, architects are degreed and certified. It's damn near similar to engineering... so your sitch isn't necessarily what you're espousing, though he may do contractor, heavy physical type work. It's that architect degree (and his ambition) and your future LAW degree (and ambition) that makes y'all successful. Aint too many of us have that.

You're officially unicorns. Congrats!

she just proved my point.

(not all but MOST of the educated do fair much better than the noneducated. and in some cases like her "husband" [I wonder how could her husband earn a millionaire's salary and she not know HE WAS EDUCATED but that's another post for another day mmm hmm.] some of them earn a huge amount more.)
WELL.

and i'll agree some blue collar workers do well and some very well but those are exclusions and I wouldn't want to test it.

 

[Southernbella.]

This reminds me of the time me and my SO were talking about past flings and white people and my SO said something like "and I gotta watch you, cuz we both know you like them *sideeye*" I just laughed and said uh huh (ex is white)

I'm glad yall elaborated on what was meant by bw not being "good enough". I thought green-eyed was talking about looks!

But that's an interesting observation. But it's also true that a lot of rich and powerful men want wives who are the complete opposite, right?

My girl.

 

[Christina Dior]

Teachers don't control curriculum

Of course

 

[Rastafarai]

(not all but MOST of the educated do fair much better than the noneducated. and in some cases like her "husband" [I wonder how could her husband earn a millionaire's salary and she not know it but that's another post for another day mmm hmm.] some of them earn a huge amount more.)
WELL.

Girl, WHAT?

I'll give you the time of day to clarify yourself before I respond further.

 

[Rastafarai]

Granted I'm not entirely out in the world right now so as to be 100% visible to everyone. I will be very soon. I'm just seeing my family through a tough time right now.

Sorry to hear about your family situation but I hope to see you more visible at some events. Not sure if you hold memberships to some of the local black bar associations in NYC, but I highly recommend MBBA. I was recently at their holiday party and there were a number of eligible and single black men available - my non-lawyer friend tagged along and scored a few dates well.

See you around!

 

[Rastafarai]

no single woman wants that. that's not what I'm saying. but if that was your situation and yes it certainly can happen again I don't blame you.

You don't have to say that. I've dated enough white men in my past to know they usually date us for reasons that have nothing to do with the vision of marrying long-term (unless that have something to gain).

There was also some NYTimes article that made mention of how highly unsuccessful interracial marriages are when compared to marrying within your race/ethnicity. Statistically, black marriages remain more stable than interracial ones.

And you haven't answered my earlier question: are you a married woman?

 

[PrissiSippi]

True, obviously he needs to be able to save and plan for retirement which you can do as a business owner. I work in Financial services and you don't need an employer to make it work. There are tools for every level of income. Hopefully if ACA survives he can buy healthcare or be on his wife's plan if she's working. He also needs to marry a woman who can step in when things are tough. You can't just sit back as a woman with no safety net or game plan. Even if you are a SAHM you need plan B to save the family if *** hits the fan. Men are human too and once in awhile stuff happens that is out of their control.

This is such a different perspective than what is often spoken on the board.

I agree though entrepreneurship is the way to go but most of us (including myself) don't know how to do it right lol. That's where mentors and reading come into play.

 

[Crackers Phinn]

My older mentors (black men) are telling me to be patient with black men. And I am. I'm single. They beg me not marry anything else. I tell them all about my dating experiences etc. They have nothing to say except to be patient and that they don't know anyone for me yet. Granted I'm not entirely out in the world right now so as to be 100% visible to everyone. I will be very soon. I'm just seeing my family through a tough time right now.

But things are happening outside of my control. And I just don't know what the "right" thing to do is. So I'm anxious. Hella anxious.

ETA: speaking of money - my mom has always told me to build the wealth up with the man. I really see the value in this. After dating some men with money (that's not even that incredibly long), Im much more down with this idea.

I'm curious. Have these mentors actually ever really helped you with anything? I'm hoping that they have offered you better guidance in other areas because begging you not to marry anything else when you're coming up short with black men is terrible advice. Also, are these men married?

As for you mothers advice, I'd say it works if the man you are with is already at a higher level than you financially. The cliche of men dumping the ride or die after they've moved up financially is oft repeated for a reason.

 

[FemmeFatale]

This is such a different perspective than what is often spoken on the board.

I agree though entrepreneurship is the way to go but most of us (including myself) don't know how to do it right lol. That's where mentors and reading come into play.

With black women this goes without saying and we've been doing it for centuries..it is why we need to emphasize marrying up and thinking about our own well being. I don't know a single black woman that would just let her family crumble to pieces (as in starve and die).. from the white collar professionals to the dancers.

 

[Crackers Phinn]

Okay, my SIL joined Our Time dating site after brother's death. She has reported that the Black men hit her up for money, request she help them buy a vehicle, or insist on moving into her house at their first meetup. These are men between the age of 60-70. The white ones don't show the same behavior. I jokingly tell her they just want to marry then kill her off for the insurance money.

These lil young black dudes be doing the same thing. My nieces be sending me screen shots of some of the messages they get and I have seen some form of "I'm short on funds but long on dyk. We can help each other out" too many times to count. N's out here honestly, truly believing that their dyk is currency.

 

[ScorpioBeauty09]

You don't have to say that. I've dated enough white men in my past to know they usually date us for reasons that have nothing to do with the vision of marrying long-term (unless that have something to gain).

There was also some NYTimes article that made mention of how highly unsuccessful interracial marriages are when compared to marrying within your race/ethnicity. Statistically, black marriages remain more stable than interracial ones.

And you haven't answered my earlier question: are you a married woman?

Interracial marriages involving WW are the most unstable. BW/WM marriages are more likely to last than white/white marriages.

http://www.blogher.com/latest-statistics-divorce-rates-among-interracial-marriages

 

[ScorpioBeauty09]

I'm curious. Have these mentors actually ever really helped you with anything? I'm hoping that they have offered you better guidance in other areas because begging you not to marry anything else when you're coming up short with black men is terrible advice. Also, are these men married?

It really is. My own father told me to not to bother waiting for an IBM if I find a man of another color who makes me happy. Being a surgeon he's seen plenty of successful BW waste their young years away waiting for a BM and he does not want his daughters going down that path.

 

[BEAUTYU2U]

These lil young black dudes be doing the same thing. My nieces be sending me screen shots of some of the messages they get and I have seen some form of "I'm short on funds but long on dyk. We can help each other out" too many times to count. N's out here honestly, truly believing that their dyk is currency.

 

[barbiesocialite]

It really is. My own father told me to not to bother waiting for an IBM if I find a man of another color who makes me happy. Being a surgeon he's seen plenty of successful BW waste their young years away waiting for a BM and he does not want his daughters going down that path.

I agree with this.

There's something about even successful black men that when I compare them to their peers of other races that's just.....different. idk. I havent been able to quite put my finger on it to describe is succinctly as of yet but I will say that's offputting. again, idk. Even if theyre actually technically nice guys and a man about his business, when I compare behaviors and experiences with other men of different races yet the same social/professional standing, more often than not I end up feeling devalued and kinda exhausted with the black guy. I also feel more stressed and anxious too like theres an unspoken air of competition that demands a woman be super thirsty and dedicated from jump in hopes to get to the finish line.

TBH I kinda feel being with a successful black man is literally a job at times. Even just on casual dates there is usually just an air or aura that usually isnt quite as relaxing and carefree as I prefer. They just seem like a lot of work. Like a lot of work, high risk and minimal long term return. It seems that almost every stage demands an extreme amount of work and commitment like its her major life goal to just get the ninja from point A-to-B. Chicks be working to first even get the opportunity, then they be working to make sure he doesnt stop courting her/wining and dining, then they be working not to get pregnant because if that happens they be working not to be a babymama because the odds of a bm marrying the mother of his children is pretty slim. How is any of that fun??--let alone rewarding or uplifting.

No thanks. I dont think I'm naturally built to handle that type of dynamic. I liek knowing that a man, no matter how successful, is into me because he just loves the hell out of me. I like to be the trophy to my man, not the other way around. I'm convinced that some of these chicks out here be really out here busting arse and chasing after these black men for no reason. These ninjas out here be thinking they deserve better than what they gettin. ninja please. saddown. stfu. youre a man, youre not supposed to be important. Men are naturally wired to work to prove their worth in the world (be it to wife, friends, children, career, everything). Affection is supposed to be earned, youre not entitled to a woman's investment. wheredeydodatat?!...


aqnd the craziest part of all is that --HANDS DOWN--every black man I've dated is wayyyyy more picky and demanding than the others. Its just my matter of fact experience. I've dated a 6'6 Puertorican, an Indian muslim lawyer and a gangster Vietnamese dude who, at the time of their arrival, ended up being a relief and vacation compared to the black guy before him. These young black men actually want and really expect chicks to be working to try to be perfect for them without doing a gatdamn thing to earn it. foolishness. i wish i would, youre lucky if I dont ask you to wash my period panties first before Id even consider it entertaining the idea!

that said, I get what your father is saying. While I'm still open to meeting and trying out anyone worthwhile, including BM. If I'm truly honest with myself the odds dont look good. The chance that I'll stumble across a BM that meshes well and is capable of treating me how I need to be treated and loving me the way I need to be loved longterm is simply a lot less likely than it is for other races. Listen I wasnt raised by martyrs and strong black women. I'm used to women being love free of charge and with minimal effort. She's still her man's prize even if her brokedown looking self and selfish nature says otherwise

 

[Rastafarai]

Interracial marriages involving WW are the most unstable. BW/WM marriages are more likely to last than white/white marriages.

http://www.blogher.com/latest-statistics-divorce-rates-among-interracial-marriages

And when compared to BW/BM marriages? I believe I've read they are are less stable.

 

[ScorpioBeauty09]

And when compared to BW/BM marriages? I believe I've read they are are less stable.

White marriages are more stable on average than black marriages. So BM/WW are more unstable than black or white marriages but WM/BW the few that happen are more stable than black marriages.