'marrying Down' Costs Educated Women $25k A Year

[Crackers Phinn]

That other thread just made me think....

What about a man who makes less than you but is financially savvy enough to amass a tidy sum? Like that bus driver or janitor or whatever that older gentleman was. Does he get a chance?

Nope. I didn't want to bring down the tone of that thread but Mr. Earl's maximum earnings of $20K/year really hurt how much he will be able to retire on and while he used his white friends I don't know if I would call him market savy. Every 401K 101 guide that employers offer give the example of the 25 year old who invests at their lowest earnings rate can amass $1 million in 30 years. Mr. Earl been investing 40 years and is at less than half of that (the video did some serious rounding up).

 

[Glamorous_chic]

Nope. I didn't want to bring down the tone of that thread but Mr. Earl's maximum earnings of $20K/year really hurt how much he will be able to retire on and while he used his white friends I don't know if I would call him market savy. Every 401K 101 guide that employers offer give the example of the 25 year old who invests at their lowest earnings rate can amass $1 million in 30 years. Mr. Earl been investing 40 years and is at less than half of that (the video did some serious rounding up).

what 401k guide is this? lmao seriously I would like to look at it or read it. I agree about his salary hurting his retirement, but given that a lot of companies are no longer offering pensions anymore and social security probably not being around much longer, he'll be semi okay especially since he doesn't really have any debt compared to the rest of us. everyone does not know how to invest in their 401k. I know a handful of people actually that do, so if this guide likely isn't that much common knowledge.

and this is also an offtopic or a topic that was touched on a little bit, but due to Mr. Ear's low debt and investing he is probably worth more than some who makes a higher salary. a few people touched on that, b/c it means nothing to make 100k if you have 200k in student loan debt(I know a few people like this), live in a high cost of living city, have 300k in mortgage, and 50k car note, which I know a few people with this debt as well. there really are many many factors to look at and you have to look at the total picture.

also, I do wonder how does the mentality of he must make xyz, so I can be a stay at home mom change when you're in your late 40's and still single and your fertility window decreases. what about when you're in a city like Atlanta, where women far outnumber men. do you adjust your standards as yard suggested? do you re-evaluate things? or are you continent with single status? I ask this b/c I have several friends mid to late 30's who are now contemplating freezing eggs or invitro b/c they are sure they will likely not marry anyone b/c they want their s/o to make more than them. they live in Atlanta and DC. so then the question is which is worse, raising a child as a single parent on purpose or choosing to marry a partner who earns less. I know this is a individual decision. just kind of a rhetorical question. and im not talking earns less as in still living in his moms basement and has been jobless for 10 years. I mean, you make >100k as a dentist, pharmacist, NP, PA but he earns 40-50k as a teacher or something.

I am not telling anyone to lower standards just looking at it from all points of view b/c im totally against "working with a brother " too and I feel you have to do whats best for your situation. im not the person saying give the janitor a chance b/c I know someone who makes 500k as a janitor. that's always hilarious. lmao just wondering when there are gaps in salary like that, but its too professionals or 2 college educated people what do you do? its not always that easy to find another 100k earner unless you met him in college. and im using 100k b/c a lot of my friends and associates make this salary

 

[kikigirl]

Having to adjust expectations is just a fact of life. Even more so in dating/relationships. I'm not pro- stick to your list of 125 must-haves as your own stats change. Even with increased life expectancy, a 40 yo who still wants kids shouldn't use the criteria she had when she was 20.
For one, I assume she had more opportunities to save (if she did not care for any adopted or foster kids). Career-wise, she is also likely at a point where being a SAHM is more/less appealing to her. Unless she also wants younger men, she is also looking at a different demography of potential suitors, maybe men with a prior nuclear family. That brings in spousal/child support concerns.
Parameters will change on both sides (or rather should change; I know some people will keep their criteria no matter what).

A woman should marry so as to improve her overall long-term condition, and that of her future kids (if she still wants them).
Over time some will lose the desire to have kids and take the ability to be a SAHM off the table. If she makes $100K and finds an educated man who earns $50K, he might be a prospect, whereas he would not have been a decade ago. Are the companionship and other marital benefits worth $50K? Is the man financially responsible? Has he saved for retirement? If he has kids will they be the new wife's burden? Does the man want to raise a baby at 40+? I think there is still a lot to consider financially...The man's financially history (lol, if he hasn't realized his potential by now...) is a big clue.

What is settling IMO is marrying the dude who makes $50K and is looking for an upgrade. Dude who spread his seed to the 4 corners of the earth, and is now looking for a sugar mama. Honestly, a bw with accumulated savings and great retirement prospects should not squander her future on a loser like that one. She should keep looking.

 

[dancinstallion]

I don't think my husband and family members are some weird exception....just because you have a black mother doesn't mean it's reinforced that you are supposed to want/marry a woman like this. My mother in law literally told her sons they weren't to date out and gave reasons why. When they tried it she stopped speaking to him (true story). Most of my aunts did the same thing...those sons are dating or engaged to black women. Even though they didn't go to school with many black girls, don't live in cities with a bunch of a black women etc. The 2 cousins that will probably marry out have mothers who don't think it's a big deal.

My 10 year old ds and 8 year old dd both know that ds cant bring a wt girl home. DH doesnt care but I made it clear he will be disowned by me. I will stop speaking to him.

There was an episode on blackish when JR brought a white girl home. (ds acts just like jr.) and my kids called me Bow, We thought it was so funny and I reinforced that it will not be acceptable nor tolerated if ds wants to try that foolishness. That girl will get drop kicked right out of my house .

 

[HappilyLiberal]

This thread made me think of this...

 

[BEAUTYU2U]

My 10 year old ds and 8 year old dd both know that ds cant bring a wt girl home. DH doesnt care but I made it clear he will be disowned by me. I will stop speaking to him.

There was an episode on blackish when JR brought a white girl home. (ds acts just like jr.) and my kids called me Bow, We thought it was so funny and I reinforced that it will not be acceptable nor tolerated if ds wants to try that foolishness. That girl will get drop kicked right out of my house .

I think it means more coming from dad than mom.

 

[Femmefatal1981]

I think it means more coming from dad than mom.

I straight up asked my husband why he didn't date/marry a white woman and his response with no context as to why I was asking was "it would have dishonored my mother". Don't underestimate moms pull on her son. I never ever would have made it down th he aisle if my mother in law hadn't approved of me. Hell it was touvh and go there until she got to know me for real...today respect him for not putting in me in that position.

 

[Crackers Phinn]

what 401k guide is this? lmao seriously I would like to look at it or read it.

If you google "compounding interest" or "401k millionaires" there will be tons of news articles and blog posts using similar examples.

"Let's say you earn $40k a year, contribute 10% to your 401(k) plan, receive a 3% match from your employer, and earn a 6% average annualized rate of return. If you start at age 22, you would end up with over $1 million by age 65. But if you wait until age 30 to start saving, you end up with only about $617k. Getting that early start means over $300k extra in your nest egg, which could mean being able to retire earlier or live better in retirement."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/financi...making-with-their-401k-accounts/#71dfe4e85add

There has been some version of this 'welcome to your company's 401K plan" brochure at every company I've worked with since 1995. They put the magic of compound interest examples in there specifically to get the younger workers to contribute to the plan. We can argue the feasibility of a 22 year old earning $40K but the point is that I have seen some version of this blurb my entire working life. Whether people read their new employee packets is a whole different thread topic.

~~~~~~~~~~~
Honestly. Truly. I think Mr. Earl is going to be fine because his wife has a job with benefits making more than him or they have received some form of state aid. Like I said, I believe the video left out some key details because I was like how did this family have healthcare pre-Obama on one salary of $20K max and he's saving for investments?

I get the feel goodness and you can do it-ness but Mr. Earl's story don't add up.

 

[SimplyLive]

I straight up asked my husband why he didn't date/marry a white woman and his response with no context as to why I was asking was "it would have dishonored my mother". Don't underestimate moms pull on her son. I never ever would have made it down th he aisle if my mother in law hadn't approved of me. Hell it was touvh and go there until she got to know me for real...today respect him for not putting in me in that position.

So not because BW are his preference?

And I'm not trying to be shady or anything. I just feel like it should be because BW are the most beautiful, amazing women, and that is his preference. Not marrying a BW because he had some "obligation."

 

[ScorpioBeauty09]

I straight up asked my husband why he didn't date/marry a white woman and his response with no context as to why I was asking was "it would have dishonored my mother". Don't underestimate moms pull on her son. I never ever would have made it down th he aisle if my mother in law hadn't approved of me. Hell it was touvh and go there until she got to know me for real...today respect him for not putting in me in that position.

In what position? Marrying you when his mother was skeptical of you? Different strokes I guess. If my dad waited until his mother liked my mother to marry her, there's a good chance I literally would not exist.

And anyway he didn't prefer black women to begin with? I'm all for men being close to their mothers but to a point.

 

[Femmefatal1981]

In what position? Marrying you when his mother was skeptical of you? Different strokes I guess. If my dad waited until his mother liked my mother to marry her, there's a good chance I literally would not exist.

And anyway he didn't prefer black women to begin with? I'm all for men being close to their mothers but to a point.

Exactly, but she didn't like me skeptical is an understatement. My mother in law and I both have strong personalities, it would have gotten real ugly real quick. Now my MIL is not an unreasonable person so he trust her judgement so if she's not buying it...he didn't do it. So did he prefer black women to begin with? He will never know because a love of blackness (well not all things black but a specific type) was ingrained in him from birth.

 

[dancinstallion]

I think it means more coming from dad than mom.

Ds is mama's boy. He asks me for everything before he asks his dad. he is attracted to older black girls so far.

 

[shelli4018]

^^ My boys are the same.

 

[*SkolarStar*]

Since most boards this picture have hit are claiming that everybody in this picture is either regla or diet black then I'm just going to put it out there that biracial women and octoroons are doing just fine when it comes to keeping the blood lines black.

[/

 

[Dove56]

For women who are the breadwinners, they take maternity leave and go back to work in 6 - 12 weeks depending on company policy.
They pump and/or freeze the milk for use throughout the day/week while their husband/nanny stays home with the kids. If need be, pump and Fedex the breast milk.
I have friends with stay at home husbands (educated guys) and kids. One husband went back to work a couple of years ago.

Couldn't be me. No way in hell would I look at man at home all day chasing kids. Call me old fashioned. I like Alpha males, that would go against everything in me.

 

[fula97]

Would y'all rather a bw marry another bw or a non BM if she couldn't find a BM to marry up with?

T Next thing you know you have wiped out your black bloodline. Having a black mother isn't some magic cure all.

I don't understand the marry a BW if you are not into women even for financial reasons. At some point you would have to give up the goods.

But if you can't find someone black to marry that fulfills your criteria then you have to expand your pool. Fishing in the same pool will render the same results. As for saving the black race *sigh* in a perfect world great however black women seem to be the ones most vested in saving the race. Go with what benefits you personally first and then worry about saving the rest

 

[Femmefatal1981]

So not because BW are his preference?

And I'm not trying to be shady or anything. I just feel like it should be because BW are the most beautiful, amazing women, and that is his preference. Not marrying a BW because he had some "obligation."

Who said anything about obligation? Of course black women are all that but someone has to instill that in you because society sure isn't going to do it. My husband was usually one of the only black children in his neighborhood and school. She took the initiative that we say parents should take today by embracing her twa, her brown skin, teaching them black is beautiful, etc. That's not obligation, that's just raising a child who embraces their culture as the ideal.

 

[Femmefatal1981]

I don't understand the marry a BW if you are not into women even for financial reasons. At some point you would have to give up the goods.

But if you can't find someone black to marry that fulfills your criteria then you have to expand your pool. Fishing in the same pool will render the same results. As for saving the black race *sigh* in a perfect world great however black women seem to be the ones most vested in saving the race. Go with what benefits you personally first and then worry about saving the rest

Sorry but I don't get your 1st paragraph, but the rest: there are millions of black men In this country not to mention the world. All kinds, shades, cultures, incomes...if it's important to you you prioritize and make it happen. Shoot just the act of saying "well there are always white men as a back up" means you wont approach dating black men the same way. I knew I wasn't going to date outside my race or culture. As such I knew I had to prioritize my life to match that. Go to school with the kind of men I wanted, identify potential mates in college, be willing to balance college with long term relationships, etc.

 

[SimplyLive]

Who said anything about obligation? Of course black women are all that but someone has to instill that in you because society sure isn't going to do it. My husband was usually one of the only black children in his neighborhood and school. She took the initiative that we say parents should take today by embracing her twa, her brown skin, teaching them black is beautiful, etc. That's not obligation, that's just raising a child who embraces their culture as the ideal.

Of course he felt "obligated" because why else would he say the reason why he didn't marry a WW was to not "dishonor his mother." He felt obligated to uphold his mother's ideals and honor. It's interesting how the mother took the initiative to teach him to love natural hair/twa, brown skin, black is beautiful, yet that wasn't his primary reason for marrying a BW instead of a WW. He could of easily said the reason he did not marry a WW is because he is sexually/physically as well as culturally attracted to BW, but he didn't.

(BTW, please, I'm not making a judgement on your husband. I dont know him.)

 

[LaBelleLL]

I don't understand the marry a BW if you are not into women even for financial reasons. At some point you would have to give up the goods.

But if you can't find someone black to marry that fulfills your criteria then you have to expand your pool. Fishing in the same pool will render the same results. As for saving the black race *sigh* in a perfect world great however black women seem to be the ones most vested in saving the race. Go with what benefits you personally first and then worry about saving the rest

at the end of the day, it's your life and your empty or filled bed and/or uterus (if you want a child). just do what's right for you.

i think i've posted this here already. i have been monitoring something very closely in my personal life. i work in an environment that involves a good number of black professional men. do you know - none of them notice or even act like they notice me? it's almost like they go out of their way to do this. they are all in my age group. there is one who is slightly older who says hello each time he sees me. the older ones always say hello.

i am very approachable and often approached.

i spoke to my mentors (older AA men) and told them about it this. it bothered me so much. so so much. we are going on a year now b/c two of the offenders were at my job's holiday party and we spoke! my mentors were a bit puzzled but said maybe they are intimidated. they called them kids ad told me to forget about it. i told them i don't buy it. as a haitian-am - i come from an environment where were recognize each other and make it a point to do so - no matter where we are or what side we are on.

so listen, there comes a time where you have to change things up...whatever that means for you....

 

[chicitygirl]

at the end of the day, it's your life and your empty or filled bed and/or uterus (if you want a child). just do what's right for you.

i think i've posted this here already. i have been monitoring something very closely in my personal life. i work in an environment that involves a good number of black professional men. do you know - none of them notice or even act like they notice me? it's almost like they go out of their way to do this. they are all in my age group. there is one who is slightly older who says hello each time he sees me. the older ones always say hello.

i am very approachable and often approached.

i spoke to my mentors (older AA men) and told them about it this. it bothered me so much. so so much. we are going on a year now b/c two of the offenders were at my job's holiday party and we spoke! my mentors were a bit puzzled but said maybe they are intimidated. they called them kids ad told me to forget about it. i told them i don't buy it. as a haitian-am - i come from an environment where were recognize each other and make it a point to do so - no matter where we are or what side we are on.

so listen, there comes a time where you have to change things up...whatever that means for you....

Are you in a competitive field or is your corporate culture a bit cutthroat? I ask because that may be the reason black men at work aren't checking for you. They see you as competition and not a sexual being. These are the same guys that either don't date people from work or only date women that are admins or not a threat to them professionally. They know that there's rarely room for both a black man and a black woman at the top, and they're not interested in fraternizing with the competition. Just wanted to throw that out there. People always say you can find a mate at work, but a lot of that depends on the type of work environment you're in. I've also seen black men shy away from approaching female coworkers because they've seen how they're more likely to be thrown under the bus from the sexual harassment standpoint. In a lot of cases, it's just not worth it when they have plenty of options outside of work.

 

[LaBelleLL]

Are you in a competitive field or is your corporate culture a bit cutthroat? I ask because that may be the reason black men at work aren't checking for you. They see you as competition and not a sexual being. These are the same guys that either don't date people from work or only date women that are admins or not a threat to them professionally. They know that there's rarely room for both a black man and a black woman at the top, and they're not interested in fraternizing with the competition. Just wanted to throw that out there. People always say you can find a mate at work, but a lot of that depends on the type of work environment you're in. I've also seen black men shy away from approaching female coworkers because they've seen how they're more likely to be thrown under the bus from the sexual harassment standpoint. In a lot of cases, it's just not worth it when they have plenty of options outside of work.

we work for different agencies. In other words no competition.

i can't say too much of this story b/c i just don't know who is here. one of the AA attorneys got into a bit of trouble with this white girl who was subordinate staff. she became angry when he stopped replying to her. and she turned crazy on him. and everyone knew. it cost him. cannot say how. we have crossed paths as well....i can't really say anything else.

 

[Femmefatal1981]

Of course he felt "obligated" because why else would he say the reason why he didn't marry a WW was to not "dishonor his mother." He felt obligated to uphold his mother's ideals and honor. It's interesting how the mother took the initiative to teach him to love natural hair/twa, brown skin, black is beautiful, yet that wasn't his primary reason for marrying a BW instead of a WW. He could of easily said the reason he did not marry a WW is because he is sexually/physically as well as culturally attracted to BW, but he didn't.

(BTW, please, I'm not making a judgement on your husband. I dont know him.)

I don't anyone that's 100% not attracted to any other race in any way. Even I would don't give white boys the time of day thought JT was hot back in the day. At the end of the day unless you are surrounded by black folks 100% of the time dating black or not dating exclusively black is a choice, not chance.

And 10 yrs in I can say my mil and I are a lot alike personality wise so I can see her influence even beyond race.

 

[MsSanz92]

I have a lot of thoughts about this thread as a young (24) college educated professional BW living in NYC, but I'll keep it as short as possible.

I definitely am struggling with what truly constitutes as "marrying down". IME, I've talked to/dated guys who did not have a college degree who make significantly more than me in blue collar jobs, plus have the privilege of not being saddled by student loan debt like myself. I also dated guys who are college educated like myself, but make about the same as me (40k-60k range), or sometimes less than me because they're working in nonprofit/education/social services. I've also dated men who had both higher salaries than me, and at least a Bachelor's (several of them either had or were pursuing postgraduate degrees). Obviously, the last category is my ideal one, however the reality is most Black men will be in either one of the first two categories, (or a third being the LE category; a man who is less educated and makes less than you, which I avoid like the plague). Does financial earnings matter more in keeping a marriage in tact over similar life/educational/social backgrounds?

I'll be busting my ass to snag a mate in the last category, however I often run into many of the common issues other BW report with these type of men; they know they're "in demand", and are more likely to not commit. That's not the case 100% of the time, however I think region plays a lot into this. I went to college in the South, and most of the college educated BM/BW I know who are married (people in their mid-late 20s) either are originally from and/or live in the South. The few BW I know who are engaged/married who live up here in the NYC area are with non-Black men (one is engaged to a Latino man, the other is married to a White man). Yes marrying a BM is ideal, but I'm not putting all of my hope into it. TBH, the last guy I was talking to seriously was Latino, pursuing a Master's, and was on his way to a high earning career (business). I think in general BW tend to sell themselves short and wait too long to make smart decisions about what kind of man they want to marry. So many BW waste their early 20s focused only on their careers, and don't use this time to find/pursue equally yoked mates. I think it's definitely possible to do both concurrently. I know quite a few BW who are in their late 20s/early 30s who are now figuring this out, and let's be honest, although on average Black people tend to get married later, waiting until then to become proactive about finding marriageable mates as a BW is NOT to our advantage. Yea sure I date and talk to men I know that I don't see as marriageable, but I don't waste too much of my time and get too committed, because I'm always actively looking for someone who is. I definitely plan to be married by 30, and am actively putting myself out there to be so.

This wasn't that short but this is just my $0.02

 

[thatscuteright]

Le sigh, this topic always depresses me. You ladies made some excellent points.

 

[sharifeh]

So not because BW are his preference?

And I'm not trying to be shady or anything. I just feel like it should be because BW are the most beautiful, amazing women, and that is his preference. Not marrying a BW because he had some "obligation."

My brother didn't marry his ethnic preference because of my mom. He tried it but she wasn't having it so he listened to her in the end. I don't think it's that uncommon.

 

[PrissiSippi]

I straight up asked my husband why he didn't date/marry a white woman and his response with no context as to why I was asking was "it would have dishonored my mother". Don't underestimate moms pull on her son. I never ever would have made it down th he aisle if my mother in law hadn't approved of me. Hell it was touvh and go there until she got to know me for real...today respect him for not putting in me in that position.

I really believe on parent's effect on children's dating choices. I know my dad always said he could see me with a white man but he didn't want me "bringing the Klu Klux Klan to his front door" and my brother was told there were no choices other than black women because "he should only accept the best". Looking in this thread....it kinda makes me feel like it's a catch22. I mean it's definitely possible to have both a black man and one with success and drive but they are far and few in between. So which do you choose? To honor your family's wishes or honor your own wants to have stability and a man that will carry a strong lineage.

Is this why we have so many captain save a heaaauxs running around? Trying to honor our family's beliefs?

 

[Femmefatal1981]

I really believe on parent's effect on children's dating choices. I know my dad always said he could see me with a white man but he didn't want me "bringing the Klu Klux Klan to his front door" and my brother was told there were no choices other than black women because "he should only accept the best". Looking in this thread....it kinda makes me feel like it's a catch22. I mean it's definitely possible to have both a black man and one with success and drive but they are far and few in between. So which do you choose? To honor your family's wishes or honor your own wants to have stability and a man that will carry a strong lineage.

Is this why we have so many captain save a heaaauxs running around? Trying to honor our family's beliefs?

No...it's not and it's strange to me that you would even come to that conclusion.

 

[PrissiSippi]

No...it's not and it's strange to me that you would even come to that conclusion.

Just a question or alternate explanation.

 

[Femmefatal1981]

Just a question or alternate explanation.

The explainstion is simple: losers have good game and good pipe. Some women just can't let that go no matter how broke and dumb a man is. Which is why they shouldn't be entertaining those dudes advances in the first place. No career, no sex. No plan, no you can't call man. No trade, no laid...

I know a guy with 7 kids by 4 women who has probably never made more than $12 an hr. Why did one of his baby momma's have a ph.d when they dated. Why is she giving her # to a cashier at the gas station? She can't blame anyone but herself for that one. I'm sure her parents didn't say bring home a black guy even if he has 5 kids and a minimum wage job.