But, see, it's those QUALITIES that have led him back to school. I think for a lot of women the degree is a sort-of proxy test . . . if a man has a degree you know that at least he has the gumption to accomplish something and put his nose to the grindstone. Now, if a person sleeps through all of their classes and stay high and parties all while they're in college, they will either not finish . . . or their "degree in name only" will manifest itself in the way they treat other aspects of their lives, i.e., the "educated fool" argument folks seem to be getting at . . . .
Reading this post made me think of something else - sometimes I think it can depend on the industry a person is in as well. As foul as this may sound, but the same way that men in certain fields (sports, entertainment, etc.) want to make sure they have a dime-piece on their arm, I can see how for a woman who works in a prestigious field that it might be important to have a partner who is able to fit into that environment . . . ESPECIALLY as a black woman. In my work setting it's not unusual to have the "where are you from/where do you work/where did you go to school" conversation within 5 minutes of meeting someone. And, I actually do have a co-worker, who is a sista with a Master's Degree . . . took up with a dude with no degree who sells handbags on the corner (and has been in prison) I cannot tell you how much her status in the office plummeted after she started bringing him around the office. It's actually quite infuriating (and illegal!) to do so, but the management looks at and treats her totally differently now . . . and she knows it
And here's the kicker - he actually is a decent guy. Nice looking, treats her well, but yeah . . . his "status" (or lack thereof) has cost her professionally. So that's one aspect of wanting to be with degreed person if you have a degree. Then, there's also the question of dealing with jealousy and feelings of inferiority. One of my friends had an ex who was a college dropout and he refused to hang around her friends because he thought we were all lawyers. And, trust, we do not sit around talking about the theories of Kant all day so it wasn't like we would be having these high brow conversations that he couldn't participate in. We weren't even talking "proper" - we had slang and ebonics all over the place. But, he just felt intimidated. Needless to say, they broke up.
Even though I also pointed to Bill Gates as an example, we have to remember - he dropped out of Harvard . . . because he had a genius product that he wanted to focus on . . . not to sit at home in mom's basement to play videogames and shop for sneakers
I guess that's what it really boils down to . . . are you not going to college because you have something else in mind that you're passionate about that you want to focus on? Or, are you just being lazy? I think a lot of people conflate "not going to college" with laziness. While laziness may be the issue for some, I'm certain it's not true for all.
I have to say, though, that this whole conversation reminds me of when I was applying to college. I remember this pack of girls saw me with my applications and shrugged it off saying, "Ugh. That's just too much!" Mmmkay. And that's why you now work at Burger King.
*shrug*
Going off on a tangent here, but I *hate* education being sold like that . . . not only to us as a people but also to poor people. I feel like the idea of learning for learning's sake is something that is only preached to the upperclasses (presuming that a person has the inclination and interest in doing so). But if you're poor or black or whatever, it's like an understood that you're going to have to work for your bread so go learn how to toil.
That's why I said it was a means to an end. Most people associate getting a degree as a way to secure a successful career. Going to college is really a journey not a destination. If it was, the degree would be hanging on the wall and it would be useless. After all, student loans don't pay themselves. 
Myself, having no degree, I have worked side by side, earning the same amount of money as people who had them. I've also been promoted above people with them and have worked under bosses without them. I know a person with a masters, who now, actually has a job that's basically the equivalent of flipping burgers. 
. These were the men who were intelligent and smart, but did not want to go to college or dropped out because they were lazy. I'm not making this crap up. I literally sat them down while I was in college and talked to them because they were good guys, they told me why they weren't in school (because I'm lazy and I'd rather do X, Y, Z). There's no bigger turn off for me than a man without ambition .
I do not make assumptions of intelligence based on paper, because that's also dumb. I should qualify my previous statement that most of the rich guys that I know who are dumb as rocks went to college.
Please. I didn't say that at all.I didn't say all men without a college degree are weed smokers
Just because you have a degree does NOT make you smart, but I'm not going to front as if the people that I've had in my life who did not have a college degree were on the same page as me. I do not have a several examples of men who did not go to college that could converse with me on:
- Topics concerning politics in America and around the world
- General information about life (so a various array of random issues)
- Random cultural literacy issues
- -Etc.
Hell, I haven't met that many men who have college degrees that actually share some interest discussing these topics. I know I need this in my life since that's one of the main reasons why I could not stand being in high school at all.
I'm in education so I see what a high school degree REALLY means in America and it doesn't mean much. College degrees aren't worth much either, but it's a better look (depending how much debt you have accumulated). Literacy is a problem in America. Most people do not read books or newspapers on their own. I do and I want that in a mate.
It's not as if I'm asking a man when I first meet him, "Oh, did you go to college? Also, what's your salary?"
Now, people are talking about the value of a college education. I understand that, and I remember posting in a thread on a similar topic saying that if you are going to rack up 200,000 worth of debt, I do not think it's worth it (unless it's medical school). So are people who don't go to college dumb? Never said that. They could be highly intelligent and knowledgeable about the field that they're in.
But how many people actually do an intellectual breakdown about the pros and cons of college education? Then say, "Hmmm, I'm going to start my own business." Most students who don't go to college or trade school DO NOT want to go because they never cared about school. I deal with this every M - F.
Black people drop out of high school at a higher degree than whites. You telling me that most forsake college because they weighed the pros/cons of a degree? Or because they are not prepared? Because I'll go in on that topic any day, all day. The aforementioned examples of people who were successful without a college degree is fine, but these people had ambition and a plan. That's a key difference.
Is anyone willing to say that the latter is a typical or indicative of those who opt not to go to school?
I'm not having kids with a man who doesn't value knowledge or who doesn't have a thirst for it. If he doesn't have a degree, I need him to be a reader. He has to have cultural literacy. Period. And yes, there are other qualities that this man has to have that goes without saying, but the topic is college education.
thank you, glib
. For what it's worth, people are generally better off with a college degree than without. You can still get into debt with a house, car, credit cards, etc without one either.I don't know if it is true on this site or not, but the ones who are always shouting, that college is a waste of money are the one's who never graduated. That is what I have seen IRL. I have known some college graduates to say they wish they would have chosen another major, but NEVER that college was a waste of money.
or they didn't go
I agree, but why look for the proxy when you can go straight for the key characteristic? It's not difficult to see if a man has drive and ambition and is hardworking if you spend a little time to get to know him.
Again, you're using college education as a proxy for some other characteristic - *valuing and thirsting after knowledge*. I want someone who values and thirsts for knowledge, so I look for someone who values and thirsts for knowledge.
No college degree necessary.Another proxy. Stimulating conversation is a must for me, so I seek someone who can have stimulating conversations.
College degree not necessary. I agree with you about the importance of a suitable partner for one's professional status and mobility. However, I must say, the "Where did you go to school?" convo to me is a superficial red herring. If that man is intelligent, confident, can hold his own in a conversation,successful , and commands respect in his own right, I am sure none of my lawyer colleagues could / would find a thing to say. What's more, I wouldn't care if they did. People in general tend to respect success (and wealth) above all else. Intelligent people tend to respect intellect above all else. Of course your colleagues looked down on that multiple-degreed lady whose mate sold handbags on the corner and had a record. But I don't think that was because he didn't have a degree. I bet they would have been perfectly respectful towards a degree-less, well-presented owner of a successful upscale handbag store.
