POLL: Why do YOU think Black Women Relax Their Hair??

[LoveisYou]

Keeping it real here:

I DO NOT like to style hair, keeping it very real, I like EASY hair.

Natural hair is super easy when it's short and I love that. WHen it starts to grow out my hair is not easy and I am not good at styling and as stated above I don't like to style hair and do not want to watch a bunch of videos to learn. I tried to change, I would spend hours twisting and braiding etc. only to have my hair turn out a hot mess. It was so frustrating for me. So natural hair is only for me if:

1. I keep it short and "easy" or
2. I have a natural hair stylist to do my hair

Anything else and it doesn't work for me.

 

[bajandoc86]

I am a natural and I LOVE it.

I also LOVED my swanging relaxed bob. That hurr was the bomb.com and nobody could tell me nothing. I relaxed my hair initially, not because of self-hate, cause I want to look white etc. It was simply because I wanted to do something different. That's it.

Yes, SOME people have serious issues re:why they feel the NEED to relax their hair. But MOST people I know, it's simply because they WANT to. And quite frankly once you have a head of healthy gorgeous hair, idgaf whether you are relaxed or natural, I'll stalk you anyways. Hence why I'm always lurking in the relaxed hair threads.

 

[IMFOCSD]

Deleted......

 

[IMFOCSD]

And the truth comes to the light....I kinda felt there was no angle with this thread...until i read these quotes/posts....OP your tune kinda changed when making this post....i can tell by the smilys used.

..

@naturalTAN

Because "thanks" is not enough!!! I couldn't have said it better myself.

People are acting like society/habits/cultural "norms" have not affected their choices in life. Ummmm...yes it has. It affects us in EVERYTHING we do!

Even when I was relaxed I recognized the reasons WHY I was doing it. It wasn't "just because". Just like I don't think people go natural "just because". NO! People do things for a REASON, whether you like to believe so or not.

Now, if you're ashamed of that reason then of course you're going to try to sugar coat it and try to make it seem like it's just a "preference". Sure....okay.

I like the color purple! (Not the movie lol...the actual color ) And even something as simple as my favorite color I can tell you WHY I like it. It's not "just because".

If someone has gone natural there was a reason why. If someone is relaxed, there is a reason why. Plain and simple. Idk why this concept is so hard to believe for some.






@lovebug10
Ha....that's funny, because I see far more negativity in society directed towards those who are natural. That has been going on for CENTURIES!

Anywhoo....I personally wasn't directing anything "negative" to people being relaxed. Like I said again, I have BEEN relaxed for over 20 years. If I felt "negatively" about relaxed hair, I wouldn't have been relaxed for as long as I was. That doesn't even make sense now does it?

I don't frequent this side of the board as much as some of you might, so maybe there IS some type of negativity associated w/relaxed hair that I personally don't know about here. But even if there IS.....society in general still adores straight hair, so I really don't think you have anything to worry about.






But here, you're associating not wearing makeup, not wearing colored contacts etc as something NEGATIVE. Do you also view natural hair as something negative?

Some women really DON'T wear much makeup (if at all)...they just don't feel comfortable with it, and many don't wear contacts (let alone color contacts).




I'm sorry but this doesn't make sense!

A woman with natural hair going out with NAKED hair (absolutely NO product whatsoever) doesn't even make sense....let alone is NOT healthy or conducive for OUR AA type textured hair. You are just ASKING for matts and tangles if you wash your hair and don't condition it, put moisturizer/product in it. Our hair loves and NEEDS moisture. Plain and simple. Leaving it product free ALL the time is just asking for a dry mess...and not only that, but it would cause our hair to break off and get brittle. It wouldn't be healthy for our hair at all. Even RELAXED hair needs products and moisture...think about it!

That's like asking a white person to walk out of the house with conditioner and oils in
their hair. Oils are NOT conducive to their hair because a lot of times their hair has too much oil....our natural hair oils don't come down our hair shaft that easily, so we NEED moisture in our hair. White people wash their hair to get RID of extra oils/buildup.

So...idk, your argument doesn't really make too much sense when asking a natural to leave the house product free.

 

[Crystalicequeen123]

Crystalicequeen123, I hear you about the changing tone of the board, but I really do think you're being disingenuous. I wasn't even gon get into it that deep, but since you persist in acting like you don't get it:

1. Your title opens the discussion up to those who aren't currently relaxed which leads to the inevitable 'self-hate' responses.

2. You're responding to and co-signing everybody who says what you obviously believe: self-hate.

Both of which lead me to believe you aren't really interested in the responses of women who are relaxed. It's that simple. No subliminals required.

[mention=16543281] Honey Bee [/mention]

Really?? Where did you get that impression from? Did I put that in my post....only "Naturals" need apply??

I'm just really trying to figure out what was said in my post to imply that only Naturals need answer this post??

People ask MANY different questions on this forum ALL the time. I've seen people ask: "Why did you go natural?" If a relaxed member on this thread decided to ask: "Why do YOU think Black Women Are Going Natural?", I would find no offense in it whatsoever. I would answer with not only my OWN personal reasons why, as well as the reasons on why I *THINK* a lot of black women are going natural these days. Just as simple as that.

I wouldn't find offense to it honestly.

I think what's bothering some of you is the fact that I mentioned in my original post that I was natural. If I had left that part out, or if a relaxed member had asked the same question, would everyone be getting up in arms about this thread? I just wonder..... :scratchch

You're responding to and co-signing everybody who says what you obviously believe: self-hate.

No. I think some of you are mistaking "self hate" for something else. The ONLY reason why I put "self hate" as one of the options on the board is because SOME black women actually FEEL that way.....OR, they feel that OTHERS feel that way about their own hair. Notice, those options did not ALL reflect MY thoughts on the matter. That's like taking a poll...not all the answers on the poll will reflect your views 100%.

Plus, I think there's a complete DIFFERENCE between "self hate" (actually HATING yourself), and a simple ACKNOWLEDGMENT of what happens to be TRUE in society in general. Society has and does shape our views about ourselves, about others, etc.

For example, I love my skin tone, and I love my hair. But I would be silly not to recognize that unfortunately, the majority of society does not look too favorably on my skin tone and hair type. That's just par for the course. It's just common knowledge. Idk why this is so crazy for some to admit. Straight hair is viewed as easier to manage and more "beautiful" than kinky hair types. So, SOME (notice I said SOME ) who are relaxed recognize this and feel that they look more beautiful with relaxed hair. I did too when I was relaxed. In fact, I STILL like the way I look with straight hair! It doesn't have to be mutually exclusive people. You CAN like both natural and relaxed hair at the same time.

But do I hate myself? NO. When I was relaxed I didn't have "self hate" issues either. I just didn't know that I had other options. I didn't see being natural as an option.

Does that make more sense??

This thread immediately came to mind when the whole Gabby news broke

Just saying....

*drops mic and exits stage left*

APrayer4Hair

What happened? I know they were making fun of her hair not being "done" or whatever, but what else happened?




ANYWAY....I'm just going to stop posting because it seems like I just keep repeating myself over and over again for no good reason, since apparently people will still read into/believe whatever it is that they want to believe. erplexed

But for all those who are/were offended by my OP or by this thread:

I APOLOGIZE!!!!


This thread was NOT intended to "segregate" anyone........

I didn't realize the "Natural" vs. "Relaxed" debate was so deeeeeep. I guess I should have paid more attention in the past before posting this question, or not posted at all. erplexed


Funny how a few years will change a lot of things on here.......

 

[CurlsBazillion]

Wow....I think some on this board are seriously projecting their own feelings of frustration/insecurity/confusion on to me and others on this board.

I think it's sad that this thread has turned into some kind of hair "war" when it was NOT intended to be that at all.

CurlsBazillion
I accept your apology. I don't know where you (or others) have gotten this idea that everyone who is natural is a "Natural Nazi". I sure am not. I don't think my OP was being "down" on relaxed women....I don't know where anyone got that impression from. I was simply stating a conversation that I had w/my mom while watching "Good Hair". That's IT!

Idk where some of you all got the impression that I somehow look down on women w/relaxed hair, but that is simply not the case at all. It's a shame that even on a hair board where all of us have the same goals (HEALTHY hair) some women here still feel like others are out to "Get them". Smh....

Even when I was relaxed, I didn't "hate myself" no....I just relaxed because I thought it looked better than natural hair, and I thought that it was easier to manage. It was really just a force of habit honestly. Going natural didn't even seem like an option to me...relaxing was just done...no questions asked! But make no mistake, I DID know that instinctively the MAIN underlying reason why black women relaxed is because society has taught us unfortunately that our natural hair is not anything to be desired. Even when I was RELAXED for 20+ years I knew this fact. And I gladly admitted that when relaxed AND when natural.

So....why are some of you all acting so brand new??

Not sure if you read my whole post because you didn't quote it all or address it all. Which you don't have to... I just wonder if you really don't get why your poll choices set the wrong tone. And "why am I acting brand new" should be something to ask yourself, 8 years on this board and you start a thread with poll choices like this and then wonder where did this thread go wrong? :/

 

[APrayer4Hair]

Crystalicequeen123

I find it not-so-funny that people act like the self-hatred SOME black folks possess ain't real. Here this girl is 16 years old winning a gold medal all I see are several (black) women on social media calling her hair nappy. Which touches on basically every "negative" point u made in your OP.

 

[LucieLoo12]

I don't think it was the OP intention to offend anyone. It was a valid question. I think ppl just like having arguments for the sake of one.

Just like some naturals think black women relax their hair to be white and be accepted by society, is the same way some relaxed women think just because we are natural that we are going neo-soul and are Jill Scott and India Arie fans and we are environmentalists.

They are sterotypes on both sides, but I don't think that was OP motive.

 

[ESmackum]

I think that there are different reasons for everyone.

For me personally, its about time constraints. My extra curricular activities (sports and classes) have me out late in the evening and I am just plain tired when I get home. I still do things to keep my relaxed hair healthy (a lot I learned from lurking on this site for so long ) But I know that my natural hair takes a long time to dry and takes forever to comb through and I can get impatient.

 

[Guinan]

I am a natural and I LOVE it.

I also LOVED my swanging relaxed bob. That hurr was the bomb.com and nobody could tell me nothing. I relaxed my hair initially, not because of self-hate, cause I want to look white etc. It was simply because I wanted to do something different. That's it.

Yes, SOME people have serious issues re:why they feel the NEED to relax their hair. But MOST people I know, it's simply because they WANT to. And quite frankly once you have a head of healthy gorgeous hair, idgaf whether you are relaxed or natural, I'll stalk you anyways. Hence why I'm always lurking in the relaxed hair threads.

Off-topic but you and your hair are GORGEOUS!!!

 

[Mystic]

There is no rhyme or reason lol. My hair is forever short since joining this forum because I have gone back and forth at least 4-5 times and I do the big chop every time. I was Relaxed BSL a year and a half ago and cut it all off. I am natural now with 7" of hair overall but i see a change coming again pretty soon. For me, the grass is always greener on the other side. It seems I get bored with relaxed or natural hair within a 2-3 yr period.

On a nother note, my sides are thin natural or relaxed which is irritating.

 

[SimJam]

I was relaxed only because it was what I was raised to do from a young child. I was never taught that there was actually an alternative of NOT getting a relaxer. And I suppose too that I didn't see natural hair growing up. Although in hindsight, I'm sure I saw a few naturals and wondered why their hair wasn't "done".

I just didn't know my relaxed hair wasn't natural...because I knew it wasn't fake.

exactly !!!!! I know for me it was a right of passage ... the summer before going into 8th grade (age 12) we could have cried blood, wasnt going to happen before that.

little kids wore their hair natural, you growing up when u get your hair relaxed, and I was one of the last of my friends to get my hair relaxed .... actually, maybe the LAST

most got their hair relaxed to go to high school (grade 7)

 

[PinkSunshine77]

I relaxed for over 22 years. *I'll* be honest and tell you why I chose to relax all those years. It was more than just "I just wanted" to. I agree w naturalTAN

1. Trying to fit in with society, Kids in School and at work. Natural hair didn't fit in (in my head) back then. Kids made fun of my Hair in school and it gave me a complex.

2. I had a Relaxer since I was 12. It was ingrained in me that Straighter hair was better and my Kinky hair wasn't good enough.

3. I hated my kinky hair. If I didn't hate it, I wouldn't have tried to keep it straight literally all the time. I didn't want my hair in all it's nappiness. Straight was better as I believed then. It was/is really thick and I had no knowledge of haircare all those years. I've only been on Hair boards for a little over a year.

4. Manageability

now my attitude has completely changed and at any time since BSS's aren't going out of business (not all of them anyway) if I chose to get a Relaxer, I surely could if I wanted to and I wouldn't feel guilty about it. I truly don't plan on that though. These were my reasons though. In my statement on the previous page, I wasn't judging or being condescending towards anyone. I was actually speaking of myself and how I thought about my hair. I'm going to transition and if I feel like I can't hack it, then ORS Olive Oil here I come.

 

[SimJam]

I don't think it was the OP intention to offend anyone. It was a valid question. I think ppl just like having arguments for the sake of one.

Just like some naturals think black women relax their hair to be white and be accepted by society, is the same way some relaxed women think just because we are natural that we are going neo-soul and are Jill Scott and India Arie fans and we are environmentalists.

They are sterotypes on both sides, but I don't think that was OP motive.

But I actually AM an environmentalist by training

 

[BlkMane]

My mom claims that the reason why black women relax their hair is because: 1) Black MEN prefer straight hair, and because 2) White people feel more "comfortable" around us with straight hair than with natural hair.

Well, I somewhat disagreed and retorted that I believe that Black men only like "straight hair" because that is what they've been RAISED seeing in the black community. I think that if the majority of black women wore natural hair, then black men would (eventually) come to like more curly/natural hair on black women. I also stated that while in the past I'm sure white people back then DID feel more "comfortable" seeing our hair straight, I think the reasons why black women use relaxers have changed over the years, and I honestly don't think white people pay that much attention to "us" anyway to really care too much either way.

Interesting...well I don't think it has anything to do with black men and what they want. If you think about it, most women who are relaxed now were FIRST relaxed as children or young teens. I'm pretty sure their moms were not relaxing so that their daughters would appeal to men. I just think some moms are overwhelmed with natural hair and feel that relaxing their daughter's hair makes things easier. Especially 'back in da' day' when we had very few natural hair products. Nowadays, things are soooo much better. Natural hair products are everywhere. Before you had three choices: grease, curl juice or water. LOL

I think in general black women relax just to follow the beauty trends. I REALLY don't think it has much to do with self-hatred. I know that when I've been relaxed it had NOTHING to do with wanting to look European. But, if you think about it, all the fashion mags (white mags and black mags included), overwhelmingly show styles for straight or loosely curled hair. Think about the "in" styles thruout the years...the Halle, the Rachel, the stacked bob, the Farrah-style feathered style, the Dorothy Hamill, etc., etc. Almost all straight, loosely curled styles.

NOW, if celebrities started rocking natural hairstyles in force, I'm sure more and more sistahs (and some white sisters as well) would jump on the bandwagon to have the "in" look.

In the early-mid 90's (Poetic Justice) braids were extremely popular. You saw them featured more in black magazines...along with braided+weaved styles. Lots of celebrities and regular people had braids during that time. Including myself. (Does anyone remember Brad Pitt's ex, Juliette Lewis, wearing cornrows to the Oscars?) Braids were a very "IN" look at the time. Just like white women were braiding their hair like crazy in the early 80's (was it?) after Bo Derek rocked cornrowed braids in the movie, '10'.

Black women like any other group of women follow fashion trends. Yes, SOME (a very small percentage) might really dislike natural hair and relax to appear less 'ethnic.' Another larger percentage has NEVER dealt with their natural hair and don't know how to deal with it, and don't see enough styling choices to embrace it. But in my humble opinion, I would dare say most sistahs just do what's in style.

Some are going natural right now cause it's kind of "IN" to do.

I would hope that in 2012, a black woman can choose to wear her hair anyway she likes without having to be analyzed for her choice. It's just hair.

And regarding white people, I've RARELY received compliments from white people with relaxed hair. When my hair was loose and natural I had to fight the white boys off and got tons of compliments. Even had white curly girls engage me in hair conversation.

Take note...watch television commercials and count the number of black women with natural and relaxed hair. OVERWHELMINGLY you will see that the actresses in television commercials are mostly naturals (or have natural wigs). Some actresses for several years now, don't think they can get hired in commercials if their hair is NOT natural. Who do you think the casting directors are? (I have other opinions about these casting choices, but that's a discussion for another day.)

 

[KurlyNinja]

This thread is funny to me. Because if there wasn't SOME underlining reason for a MAJORITY of black women to relax, then this thread wouldn't be 7 pages long so far. This website probably wouldn't even exist if there were NO underlining reason for many black women. The women who have found out how to finally take care of their hair (for the most part) mist likely do relax their hair just because they want to. And I believe that's because they have also seen beautiful natural hair and realize that you do not have to relax to have beautiful hair.

But for many. Those who have not seen the light. They believe that relaxed hit is the only way black hair can look "good" and when they see beautiful natural hair they make excuses for it like that person must have been born with "good hair" or withholding some secret holy grail product.

Now to clarify myself, no, I am not saying this is how all relaxed heads think. Just the people who think like this, for the most part, are relaxed. And, no, I am not some type of natural Nazi. There are beautiful relaxed heads out there and i respect their decision. Even when somebody i know who relaxes, that also has an issue with natural hair (yes I've dealt with this IRL on many occasion), i also say nothing about their relaxed hair. That's their personal decision. But to sit here and say that most relaxed heads (and I'm not talking about the forum really here because I've noticed most people into healthy hair care usually have a different mindset) relax just because they choose to is absurd. there wouldn't be children bullied into getting their "nappy" hair "fixed" by other kids. There wouldn't be women who's hairlines are receeding and brittle over processed broken off relaxed heads who still relax because they "can't miss they touchup". People wouldn't have to all transition their mind while they are transitioning to natural (you don't know how many times I've seen somebody sa that, even on this board.

But what i truly hope for is that one day it doesn't matter this much and people will be able to do whatever they want with their OWN hair. Even if it means they want to relax the right side of their head, jerri curl the middle, keep the left natural and put weave tracks in the back.

 

[prospurr4]

I didn't vote...and I can only say why I relax my hair:

I love long hair, my OWN long hair. I've been natural and relaxed-straight but never reached the length that I wanted. Maybe it was because I lacked skills and/or knowledge...who knows? Anyway, now, I wear my hair texturized/texlaxed, and for first time, it has reached WL. I love all the styles that my length allows me to do...I just love my hair!

 

[Stormy]

I voted for easier to manage, ingrained in our culture and the one about not knowing how to care for natural hair. All of these applied to me at one time or another in my life...and my friends too!

I'm natural now, but if one day I find that I can't handle it anymore then I may go back to a relaxer because it's 'easier to manage' since that would be the one that applies to me. Of course like I always say, whether natural or relaxed they both have their challenges. Just gotta pick your poison.

 

[TheNDofUO]

A) I can't be bothered to start again
B) I have a tangle fear - I can't deal
C) Shrinkage sounds like the most annoying thing in the world
D) I would only wear braidouts really
E) When I get curl envy I get curly weave - no need for permanent changes

 

[knt1229]

It seemed to be what you did to your hair when you reached a certain age. Even though I wanted to stop relaxing years ago, I had no idea how I would fix my hair without a relaxer. I didn't know anything about transitioning and I didn't want to cut all my hair off. So, I kept relaxing until I got the knowledge I needed to let go of the relaxers and the awful hair stylists.

 

[Marand13]

In my experience, they do it because it is "normal" to those around them.

Last year someone asked me "why dont you perm your hair?"

It seemed to me that it is what everyone else around them has done to their hair forever and it was so shocking for her to see someone who didnt relax.

I relaxed my hair in highschool because I thought it was what you were "suppose" to do... Once I finally learned how to actually care for my hair I transitioned out and never looked back.

I find it funny when people dont understand why someone is natural. But overall, I think women in general do it because they dont know what else to do.

 

[4bslbound]

Why do folks say ppl who relax want to be "white"?? Why not hispanic, asian, or Indian? They have (more) straight hair than white ppl. Straight, relaxed hair doesn't mean hate in every situation. Some ppl want relaxed hair and that's simply the only reason.

 

[IMFOCSD]

Why do folks say ppl who relax want to be "white"?? Why not hispanic, asian, or Indian? They have (more) straight hair than white ppl. Straight, relaxed hair doesn't mean hate in every situation. Some ppl want relaxed hair and that's simply the only reason.

I agree...and for someome to keep insisting women who relax hate themselvs or wanna be white are expressing ignorance smh, those are very insulting statements. No matter how straight you relax your hair thats not gonna make you look any less black. Would i be wrong to say some women with natural hair think they are better than women who relax? From all the judgements..thats what I get out of it.

Its like racism...racists constantly attack other races but those races are not thinking about the racists....meaning women who relax dont go around insulting women whi are natural but some naturals are constantky talking down on women who relax..

 

[HappilyLiberal]

This is just a topic for light-hearted discussion.....

Okay, so just the other night my mom and I (both natural) were watching Chris Rock's documentary "Good Hair", and we sort of got into a little debate.

My mom claims that the reason why black women relax their hair is because: 1) Black MEN prefer straight hair, and because 2) White people feel more "comfortable" around us with straight hair than with natural hair.

Well, I somewhat disagreed and retorted that I believe that Black men only like "straight hair" because that is what they've been RAISED seeing in the black community. I think that if the majority of black women wore natural hair, then black men would (eventually) come to like more curly/natural hair on black women. I also stated that while in the past I'm sure white people back then DID feel more "comfortable" seeing our hair straight, I think the reasons why black women use relaxers have changed over the years, and I honestly don't think white people pay that much attention to "us" anyway to really care too much either way.

It's funny because this little debate sort of brought up a pretty good question: Why DO the majority of black women (in general) relax their hair? There's no right/wrong answer, this is just your personal feeling on the matter.

What is YOUR Opinion? (You can choose more than one choice on the poll)
-Black Men prefer it
-Our hair is "easier" to "manage"
-Our hair looks "better" straight
-It's just become the "norm" so everyone does it and nobody asks any questions
-The reasons vary

 

[HappilyLiberal]

Wow....I think some on this board are seriously projecting their own feelings of frustration/insecurity/confusion on to me and others on this board.

I think it's sad that this thread has turned into some kind of hair "war" when it was NOT intended to be that at all.

No... it's more like someone posts this foolishness at least twice a year every year and people are sick of it coming up over and over again with the same arguments being hashed out over and over again. Why do you care about what someone else chooses to do to their hair? DO YOU... and don't worry about anyone else!!!!!

 

[sylver2]

i havent read the thread yet. but i know as a kid i was obsessed with long flowing hair. i was only allowed to wear it out on Easter or photo day and it "drew" up soon as i left the house. wasn't flowing but bush. now i didn't want to be white(stringy,yucky)..but i was so envious of all the dark spanish girls w/ their long hair.
obsessed w/ jayne kennedy and wanted to look like her
i was wearing ponytails until i was 14 i would wear gowns on my head and pretend it was my hair. My mom finally let me get a relaxer when i was 15-16. i love long flowing hair till this day. thats why i wear my hair out 98.9% of the time. im always suggesting for someone to grow their hair long. i love long hair period. i love length all the time. u will find me on a hot summer 98 degree day with my hair out and down my back because i love long flowing hair all the time.

 

[Mahogony7]

It's really hard to say. I just remember getting one at age of five and it just continued until this year when I decided to go natural. My mom was a single parent so she did not have time to do hair. It was either a relaxer or box braids for the girls in my family.

 

[ManeStreet]

Why do folks say ppl who relax want to be "white"?? Why not hispanic, asian, or Indian? They have (more) straight hair than white ppl. Straight, relaxed hair doesn't mean hate in every situation. Some ppl want relaxed hair and that's simply the only reason.

But Why do they want relaxed hair? Thats the question. What is motivating them to want relaxed hair? People make choices for a reason.

 

[ManeStreet]

I got my first relaxer at 19. I got it because I thought it would make my hair easier & faster to do. But I didnt like relaxed hair. I never even got a first touchup. I immediately started transitioning.

then after all that work goin back natural. I got a texturizer at 22 because I moved to the east coast & didnt know how to handle my hair with so much humidity. I had the texturizer until I was 26 & I loved it. But after 4 years I had a freak color mishap & decided to go back natural. This is 3 years later.

So my reasons where managability & humidity, lol. But the underlying reason which I didnt realize was I didnt know how to wear my hair naturally curly. Once I went natural this last time I realized how managable my natural hair is & I have no issues with humidity. All things I learned on this website is what kept me from goin back.

 

[Kindheart]

Why do folks say ppl who relax want to be "white"?? Why not hispanic, asian, or Indian? They have (more) straight hair than white ppl. Straight, relaxed hair doesn't mean hate in every situation. Some ppl want relaxed hair and that's simply the only reason.

Because indians and co Do not represent an ideal of beauty.