sunnydaze
Well-Known Member
In my situation, my ex was working the entire time we were dating. My first time seeing him unemployed was after we were married.
Make him feel like a man
- Thread starter Perfexion
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In my situation, my ex was working the entire time we were dating. My first time seeing him unemployed was after we were married.
AudraChanell
Well-Known Member
This is all opinion and they will run the gamut. There is NO! WAY! Im staying married to any man that I have to issue ultimatums, pretend to be anything other than who I am, etc in order for him to be a "man"; it should not be conditional w/me. I stay on my "woman" so to speak. That should be steady, unwavering, and should never be a question in my mind. He needs to be firmly seated in his man chair at all times and I couldnt respect him otherwise. We can all tolerate differnt things, so take it as long as you can.
Society loves to make women, some how or some way, bare the responsibility for the shortcomings of a man; down to covering ALL but their eyes in some countries LOL. Not I said the fly. He and I would be ill-suited.
Society loves to make women, some how or some way, bare the responsibility for the shortcomings of a man; down to covering ALL but their eyes in some countries LOL. Not I said the fly. He and I would be ill-suited.
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DarkJoy
Bent. Not Broken.
Just like the OP, I met mine in high school, @FelaShrine, when I was 16. I had no criteria back then
! I was caught up in a whirlwind of teen hormones with no parental guidance. Now almost 22 years later I can see there were some red-flags--things that now with experience and life under my belt wouldnt fly.1. Family history: all but 1 of his aunts and uncles (4 total) still lived at home with parents on both the maternal and paternal sides. None married or with kids. Back then, they were in their mid-30s. They are still at home or dependent on other family in their 50s and lots of weed/alcohol abuse. This now includes his siblings with their children (a recent development) and SOs. The cycle continues.
2. No ambition for realistic goals: No desire for higher education, even when a free-ride was offered. Had delusions of grandeur--living famously off his artistic talents. Regular 9-5 was beneath him.
3. Never fulfilled promises: Related to #2--would say he was going to look for work or sign up for courses but never did.
4. Never at fault: Blamed everyone else for problems, never was about him.
5. Over-use of marijuana: weed exacerbated his problem--killing what little ambition he had even for his fantasy goal of artistic genius.
Besides #1, many of these things did not appear evident until we moved in together many years later in our mid-20s as I was finishing undergrad. Some of these massive insecurities and habits are hidden until you are with them 24/7. Some were new! He didn't chronically smoke weed until our 2nd year co-habiting when I started pounding on the pressure.
Side Note: Mine did work the entire time. But worked to make his half to the penny. Not a cent more to cut me some slack, buy me gifts or help with vacations. I had to work overtime for those luxuries.
My main issues:
I saw he was extremely intelligent, very high IQ and lived on the potential of what I thought he could become rather than what was in my face. I let my own delusions of this fantastical world get in the way of reality, along with a plethora of severe abuse issues from parents. I was running from that abuse and being with him seemed like a better option.
___
From the OPs other thread it sounded like she was running from the single life? Correct me if my memory is wrong. She re-acquaints with the HS sweet heart and didn't see him for the man he is today either, but rather who he was then...this was stated in that thread by an astute poster and I believe she agreed.
So in this, there's a hope that they will change, grow, or something I can't quite put my finger on...
FelaShrine
Well-Known Member
SophieDulce
Well-Known Member
My post was from experience, I dated a guy when I was in my teens that was a bum. Learned my lesson FAST. I'm actually glad it happened young. I Vowed never again will I date a man who is dependent on me. Period.
DarkJoy
Bent. Not Broken.
You're welcome FelaShrine. Hope it helps a youngun here in their SO decision making...
He admitted during separation, the more successful I became the more envious, depressed and resentful of ME he became. I had no control over that. There was no way our marriage could survive it.
Second, call me Judas or a sellout, but I'm no long suffering martyr. If he can't pay the bills. He won't eat and won't have a place to live. Plain and simple. Everything would have already been in his name or with him as the primary financially responsible party. I would have aborted that baby and moved back to my parents til he figures the sh*t out. Yes, just to prove a point. TBH, I probably would have had the marriage anulled and gotten remarried. Again, yes to prove a point.
Lastly, there's no me making it work. Ninja you make it work. The more I read this story the more I realized this is where my personality deviates from the @Zaynab personality (any my mom's as well). They are the flip side of the long-suffering martyr. The winning side. *humph* They are not about to lose their husband or marriage because of something like this. No way, they are going to fight for him and the marriage til they get what they want. (that's technically why my parents are still married). Some women are loyal like that. IMO, this is also what determines longevity in most marriages. Bump that. I'm not above anything. If a man starts slacking, I will take a failure aka divorce and replace him with something better. NEXT.<--that's why I'm not ready for marriage yet.
Most Martyr's lives are short-lived and filled with unnecessary suffering and sacrifice, enduring and putting up with people that don't appreciate it for the most part. Too many married women are living subpar lives because they don't know when/how or are too afraid to cut their losses due to a variety of reasons.
I think there is a big difference btw the OP's case and what happened to @Zaynab. Her husband had proven himself for a few years, so toughing out a down cycle for a certain time period is understanding. Off course that's barring any major deal-breaker actions.
I remember an Oprah show once where a relationship therapist (I think the author of the Five Love Languages) talked about what he called a Love Bank. In all rlsps, Couples are depositing into and withdrawing from each others bank. The more time you've spent depositing into your partner's love bank, the more you have to withdraw and cushion you when rough times hit.
The opposite is true of course. So, when I look at the OP's case, I think to myself, what does this woman have to draw from? What is her husband depositing into her bank to replenish the withdrawals he's using up?
Like you I don't believe she should waste energy making it work. He should do it. She should focus on her child. If not, she could fall sick and die. I know it sounds a little EXTRA, but I've seen this happen.
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sunnydaze
Well-Known Member
Looking back at possible signs...
Even though my ex was working when we dated, he came from a household where basically momma did everything and was the primary provider to her 9 kids, while daddy half worked..when he felt like it. So this mentality that emerged that I could handle things while he pursued his dream at any cost, was something there in him since childhood, but only emerged after getting married.
Nothing new here we talk about this all the time on the boards, but reason 2437653 to think long and hard about marrying a man from a home where the woman is the sole/dominant provider. I didn't have the insight at the time to see that as a huge red flag..hindsight is 20/20.
Even though my ex was working when we dated, he came from a household where basically momma did everything and was the primary provider to her 9 kids, while daddy half worked..when he felt like it. So this mentality that emerged that I could handle things while he pursued his dream at any cost, was something there in him since childhood, but only emerged after getting married.
Nothing new here we talk about this all the time on the boards, but reason 2437653 to think long and hard about marrying a man from a home where the woman is the sole/dominant provider. I didn't have the insight at the time to see that as a huge red flag..hindsight is 20/20.
Ivonnovi
Well-Known Member
YES on both accounts. He "ran a hard race" trying to "live the dream" and failed; It's not uncommon to suffer burnout when you've been all caught-up in the rat race. Its how you handle it that matters; he's handling it very badly.
AND yes it is possible, that he'll run for the other color as soon as the BW puts her foot down.
AND yes it is possible, that he'll run for the other color as soon as the BW puts her foot down.
Perfexion
Well-Known Member
I had about this thought for a split second right before I went back to work but I don't trust him at home with the baby. He just leaves her in the swing all day, only picking her up to feed and change her. He never picks her up or plays with her. Isn't that how serial killers are made? He doesn't think babies need social interaction, as if they're not human beings too! He plays more with the dog! But then again I think once the baby is older and is able to do more stuff, this will definitely change. She is starting to coo now and he has started talking to her like she's an actual person. This also came as a huge shock to me considering he (and his ex wife) was once so desperate to have babies. How could someone who wanted a baby THAT bad with somebody else not want to pick up their baby? That might just be a guy thing though.
barbiesocialite
Well-Known Member
are you calling you DH a serial killer or implying your DD might become a serial killer? girl get a divorce and be done with it.
ladysaraii
Well-Known Member
barbiesocialite
Well-Known Member
same thing. she needs to get a divorce.
no one else wants to say, fine. I will. GET A DIVORCE.
good day, ma'am.
Perfexion
Well-Known Member
@Mortons well any man who didnt want to work wouldnt marry me. LOL I don't work to pay bills, never have, hope I never will. I'm no slave.
Also, I have to be honest, the amount I'm willing to tolerate has to do with how much he has given throughout the relationship and the time elapsed. Trust me, If I've been with someone even 2 years, he's paid some bills, bought some fine jewelry and financed a few things.
I see what you're saying but I did take vows for better or worse. That's why I'm torn. I didn't expect the 'worse' so soon though.
Perfexion
Well-Known Member
As far as I know, their divorce was mutual. Like I said, they couldn't have a baby. Things got stressful. They went their separate ways. I was talking to his sister last weekend and she did say he had a period of unemployment while he was married to his ex also. He got laid off. But as far as I know (though apparently I don't know much), he went right out and got another job in a few weeks. He was even working under the table as a dishwasher at some point just to save money for the down payment of their house. He was a homeowner at age 22. He's had steady work since he was 15 years old. His sister and his mother confirmed that information. That was something that really impressed me when we were dating because I didn't get my first job until after college. As far as his wife is concerned, I may never get a straight answer from her because they are not in good speaking terms. She is very bitter and spiteful about their divorce. I think she brought up divorce after an argument (probably as a bluff) but then he agreed and that pissed her off. That's what their mutual friend told me. She even told his sister that she was hoping I would miscarry. He could've treated her like gold but of course she would only tell me the bad stuff if I talked to her. So I guess the truth is still out there.
FelaShrine
Well-Known Member
I hope things get better for you Perfexion
Cant imagine running around providing things and not even trust him with doing someything as basic as watching the baby while im out.
I dont know what else to say cos well this situation is depressing
I do think you should perhaps maybe move out and see what he does or even just stop paying the bills for a while...maybe that will ight a fire..I dont know..
Cant imagine running around providing things and not even trust him with doing someything as basic as watching the baby while im out.
I dont know what else to say cos well this situation is depressing
I do think you should perhaps maybe move out and see what he does or even just stop paying the bills for a while...maybe that will ight a fire..I dont know..
barbiesocialite
Well-Known Member
Listen I called the savior of marriages and counselor of all counselors on this (@Zaynab
) to help you then you have the audacity to imply your HUSBAND--that man you married, and the father of your child-- A serial killer-maker. Girl you need to get a divorce. No one can help you and this mess can't be saved. It's a wrap. Ride it out for umpteen years or let it go tomorrow, either way it's gonna be a wrap for this debacle.....I wasted my time. This is a mess.
Perfexion
Well-Known Member
I agree @NijaG something seems to be off. TBH, my reflexive response to the OP was "why'd you marry him?"
I married him because I believed that he was a good man. I had no reason not to believe that he was once a hardworking, family-oriented provider. He was working up until he moved in with me. That's why I agree that I may have done something wrong in our marriage. Why else would he think that's okay? That would be like if I told him that I raised a bunch of siblings and babysat all my life but then I refused to take care of our baby. It's just the opposite of what you'd expect.
Perfexion
Well-Known Member
We actually met when we were younger. I guess you could say he was my high school sweetheart. We re-connected over the internet. He was going through the divorce process with her while we were dating. He was working at the time to pay for the lawyers. He quit his job when he moved in with me because he moved from a different state. He just never started looking for work once he got settled.
Perfexion
Well-Known Member
This was along the lines of what my cousin was saying about him treating WW and BW differently. A lot of BM play the "BW are too independent and don't need a man' card when they end up with a WW. That puts me in a bind because if I do take some of the advice and get a divorce then I'm thinking he is going to end up with another WW, working two jobs to support her and make it seem like it was because of me that it didn't work out and why he'll never date another BW ever again. I guess I shouldn't care about that but do understand, while the fact that he isn't ambitious is a HUGE problem for me, there are other facets of our relationship that are built on love. I did rush into marriage but I didn't just randomly pick him because he was there. We get along well. We understand each other. We have great chemistry. Our sex life is great. We make each other laugh every single day. It's just not so funny when the bills are due and he reaches for MY checkbook. I want to ask if leaving a man who has everything I want except money/ambitious is worth it, but I think I already know what everyone is going to say.
I agree and disagree with this post. Specifically the bolded.
First, I don't think it's the racial issue some folks are trying to make it.: it's not that the mere fact the other woman was white that caused the change in behavior, but the mere fact so many bw insist on playing the strong black woman EVER in life. Who does that? Make someone else pay that ish. Too much pride I tell ya....I do think a lot posts reek of bitterness and ABW syndrome tho
Second, call me Judas or a sellout, but I'm no long suffering martyr. If he can't pay the bills. He won't eat and won't have a place to live. Plain and simple. Everything would have already been in his name or with him as the primary financially responsible party. I would have aborted that baby and moved back to my parents til he figures the sh*t out. Yes, just to prove a point. TBH, I probably would have had the marriage anulled and gotten remarried. Again, yes to prove a point.
Lastly, there's no me making it work. Ninja you make it work. The more I read this story the more I realized this is where my personality deviates from the Zaynab personality (any my mom's as well). They are the flip side of the long-suffering martyr. The winning side. *humph* They are not about to lose their husband or marriage because of something like this. No way, they are going to fight for him and the marriage til they get what they want. (that's technically why my parents are still married). Some women are loyal like that. IMO, this is also what determines longevity in most marriages. Bump that. I'm not above anything. If a man starts slacking, I will take a failure aka divorce and replace him with something better. NEXT.
OP has two choices:
1. Take the gamble and get gone.
2. If the divorce is not an option, stay and work it out. Learn to deal and learn to cope while pushing him forward.
yea, @Mortons you were right about my patience
But I will only save something worth saving
My DH had previously always worked and provided so it wasn't a character flaw it was a season. I think this maybe a bit deeper here :scratchchQuit or failed - I'd say both...at the marriage, but not at life
I actually wasn't offering her any advice. My post was moreso a vent, an opp to tell my story and also as an alternate view to some of the "all you have to do is (this)..and then (that) type comments that seem to be taken as truth. There is a thinly veiled view here that somehow if she was more (fill in the blank) and less(fill in the blank), then her husband would be working. Advice more anectodtal than substantive. Life/situations are not that textbook.
Yes some have never been in her shoes and self proclaim..will never, but how does that help her..when she is indeed going through it now. That's why I would like to see posts from women who were in her shoes and won.
Thanks for sharing. I remember this obviously from years ago.
Overall, I just don't think women know when to give up and when to push on. A man that never worked or provided for you, IMO you would bounce on, that would be a character flaw. One that was going through a season or TRUE loss of income, I'd hang around for a minute. That's just me though. But I only play to win and if felt a sense of losing from the get go I'd bounce. I don't think OP's DH was ever a provider and wonderful husband to this first wife, I retract my previous comments, I think he may have put up some sort of front, not sure. The long distance part got me to thinking maybe it wasn't all glittery and roses and she is saying for the first wife.
You know since I know that BM are often coddled by the women in their lives, I don't know if I believe everything a mama would say about her wonderful son. I don't get why they would have such a bitter divorce if all their problem was infertility? I know couples that have divorced b/c of that, it IS a stressor but to be so bitter, IDK.
IF they didn't have it before and you accepted it, then yes. BUT this isn't susposedly the case with him so it's just odd. IF he was this hard working man and washing dishes for a downpayment on a house, then why not now??
Well I am the grandaddy of all who believes in marriage to believe that he was a wonderful provider and had maybe fallen on hard times. The more I read, I don't think so. Now I DO.NOT. Believe in women being long suffering bare knuckles mules at all. I hate hate hate hate hate BW and the independent motto single and married because most single women that scream it, don't lose it when they get married. I don't know if he looked at you and saw that he could relax and ease up a bit in his financial life/career but something is amiss and if you're over 30, I wouldn't sit around trying to figure it out. I still don't think it's the WW thing---that just makes it sting more I'm sure. I think you started out by enabling him, maybe it was a whirlwind romance, you reconnect, maybe older, want a baby and maybe you accepted 'helping' a man get on his feet in a new state/city and it just snowballed. I don't know really. BUT to willingly subscribe to some unhappy thread bare life because it's for better or for worse isn't what I promote at all. No way.
IF you want to make the marriage work, I would ask him to move out or you move out. Men don't respond to words, they respond to actions Do you have a mortgage or something that's binding you there? I'd move out and say that he needs to get himself together so that you can continue to respect him as a man and a provider. I would only do this on a short term basis, it would have a start and end goal like 6-9 months.
ETA: How old are you OP? If you're over 32, get a divorce and keep it moving. THere's still life to be had, you can get a new husband.
*throws up hands* I can't figure this one out. I don't feel like this is all the information being presented. I just do not believe that a man who bought a house at 22, worked as a dishwasher for a downpayment and had a thriving business would just turn into a bum. I can't believe that.
barbiesocialite
Well-Known Member
Well I am the grandaddy of all who believes in marriage to believe that he was a wonderful provider and had maybe fallen on hard times. The more I read, I don't think so. Now I DO.NOT. Believe in women being long suffering bare knuckles mules at all. I hate hate hate hate hate BW and the independent motto single and married because most single women that scream it, don't lose it when they get married. I don't know if he looked at you and saw that he could relax and ease up a bit in his financial life/career but something is amiss and if you're over 30, I wouldn't sit around trying to figure it out. I still don't think it's the WW thing---that just makes it sting more I'm sure. I think you started out by enabling him, maybe it was a whirlwind romance, you reconnect, maybe older, want a baby and maybe you accepted 'helping' a man get on his feet in a new state/city and it just snowballed. I don't know really. BUT to willingly subscribe to some unhappy thread bare life because it's for better or for worse isn't what I promote at all. No way.
IF you want to make the marriage work, I would ask him to move out or you move out. Men don't respond to words, they respond to actions Do you have a mortgage or something that's binding you there? I'd move out and say that he needs to get himself together so that you can continue to respect him as a man and a provider. I would only do this on a short term basis, it would have a start and end goal like 6-9 months.
ETA: How old are you OP? If you're over 32, get a divorce and keep it moving. THere's still life to be had, you can get a new husband.
see I knew I wasnt crazy.
chile. I need her to let it go. This man sounds awful and she's wasting her life when she could be living it. Where is the good? She told us how he was good with his ex. But she hasnt once stated how he was good with her?
I don't know. I'm sure she deeply loves her husband but I'm concerned about her feelings about him. When talking about him, as in how she relates her experience and relationship with him, he seems more bad than good. Even if she rides this out and it *appears* its over will she ever really be able to be over it and forgive him in entirety?
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Perfexion
Well-Known Member
ETA: How old are you OP? If you're over 32, get a divorce and keep it moving. THere's still life to be had, you can get a new husband.
Yes I am over 32. This is also my second marriage. My first marriage was annuled when I was 21. I think if this doesn't work out I'm done.
I believe you get a second chance at love, but not a third.Similar threads
