Make him feel like a man

[DarkJoy]

I married him because I believed that he was a good man. I had no reason not to believe that he was once a hardworking, family-oriented provider. He was working up until he moved in with me. That's why I agree that I may have done something wrong in our marriage. Why else would he think that's okay? That would be like if I told him that I raised a bunch of siblings and babysat all my life but then I refused to take care of our baby. It's just the opposite of what you'd expect.

Bolded = The co-dependent anthem.

This was along the lines of what my cousin was saying about him treating WW and BW differently. A lot of BM play the "BW are too independent and don't need a man' card when they end up with a WW. That puts me in a bind because if I do take some of the advice and get a divorce then I'm thinking he is going to end up with another WW, working two jobs to support her and make it seem like it was because of me that it didn't work out and why he'll never date another BW ever again. I guess I shouldn't care about that but do understand, while the fact that he isn't ambitious is a HUGE problem for me, there are other facets of our relationship that are built on love. I did rush into marriage but I didn't just randomly pick him because he was there. We get along well. We understand each other. We have great chemistry. Our sex life is great. We make each other laugh every single day. It's just not so funny when the bills are due and he reaches for MY checkbook. I want to ask if leaving a man who has everything I want except money/ambitious is worth it, but I think I already know what everyone is going to say.

This is part of co-dependence. Focusing on race, his past and previous marriage, his future choice in wife and a life that has not even in the process of happening. This is not helpful. It is a method of distraction from whatever internal process you may be trying to avoid. Keeps you focused on HIM rather than you.

Might behoove you both to seek both individual and couples therapy.

 

[Oneprettypa]

he isn't ambitious is a HUGE problem for me, there are other facets of our relationship that are built on love. I did rush into marriage but I didn't just randomly pick him because he was there. We get along well. We understand each other. We have great chemistry. Our sex life is great. We make each other laugh every single day. It's just not so funny when the bills are due and he reaches for MY checkbook. I want to ask if leaving a man who has everything I want except money/ambitious is worth it, but I think I already know what everyone is going to say.

If this is honestly the case then stand by your man girl. Fight tooth and nail for your marriage and honor your vows. WTBS, I'm not saying support a lazy black man, I'm saying get to the soul of the matter. Find out his true and honest reason why he isn't working and supporting his family like any man -regardless of color- should do. Have that uncomfortable conversation. It's necessary. If all of his good qualities outweigh the bad then work through it. If he resolves to be a bum then let it go. That's a decision only YOU can make. You'll get 50-11 diff opinions in this thread but the only one that matters is yours. I say pray like there's no tomorrow, really TALK with your husband and go from there. I will say though that there is more to their divorce than just not being able to have a baby. Anyhoo, hope it all works out for you.

 

[MD_Lady]

... I want to ask if leaving a man who has everything I want except money/ambitious is worth it, but I think I already know what everyone is going to say.

I don't suppose that would be, "I don't know, is it?". By your own admission, you have reasons to stay and you have reasons to go. Based on your previous posts, it sounds like you're leaning more towards staying than going. You've gotten multiple suggestions regarding what you can do to ensure you'll have a marriage that's worth sticking around for. When it's all said and done, you're the only one who knows enough about yourself, your husband, and your marriage to determine what strategies will work for you. You also know that, no matter how many ultimatums or incentives you provide, the decision to change your husband's behavior is his and his alone. The decision on what to do next is a difficult one, but at some point, you have to get past asking for outside opinions, rely on what you know to be true about your situation, and do the best you can.

 

[PopLife]

If this is honestly the case then stand by your man girl. Fight tooth and nail for your marriage and honor your vows. WTBS, I'm not saying support a lazy black man, I'm saying get to the soul of the matter. Find out his true and honest reason why he isn't working and supporting his family like any man -regardless of color- should do. Have that uncomfortable conversation. It's necessary. If all of his good qualities outweigh the bad then work through it. If he resolves to be a bum then let it go. That's a decision only YOU can make. You'll get 50-11 diff opinions in this thread but the only one that matters is yours. I say pray like there's no tomorrow, really TALK with your husband and go from there. I will say though that there is more to their divorce than just not being able to have a baby. Anyhoo, hope it all works out for you.

Very good advice. I would also suggest counseling if he's open to it...

 

[Zaynab]

Yes I am over 32. This is also my second marriage. My first marriage was annuled when I was 21. I think if this doesn't work out I'm done. I believe you get a second chance at love, but not a third.

I just do not understand how he would go from having a business, etc to you saying NOW he is not ambitious. Because that's a character thing, he wouldn't have changed for a new wife. He either is or is not. I never tell people to divorce unless they are being beat or unprovided for.

I believe you get as many chances at love as you want

Sent from yacht with Beyonce & Blue

 

[FoxxyLocs]

Yes I am over 32. This is also my second marriage. My first marriage was annuled when I was 21. I think if this doesn't work out I'm done. I believe you get a second chance at love, but not a third.

You're still young. If you find the right man at 40 and live to be 80, that's 40 years of happy marriage. You have time. Not saying that you should divorce, but if you do your life is not over.

 

[LivingInPeace]

Yes I am over 32. This is also my second marriage. My first marriage was annuled when I was 21. I think if this doesn't work out I'm done. I believe you get a second chance at love, but not a third.

There's a saying, the first time you marry for love. The second time you marry for money. The third time you marry for companionship.

 

[Zaynab]

There's a saying, the first time you marry for love. The second time you marry for money. The third time you marry for companionship.

Welp. Clearly this didn't happen the second time.

I will marry every time for security.

Sent from yacht with Beyonce & Blue

 

[LivingInPeace]

Welp. Clearly this didn't happen the second time.

I will marry every time for security.

Sent from yacht with Beyonce & Blue

Yeah, she missed that boat. But there's always another one floating by. Hopefully, her next choice will be better.

 

[ambergirl]

OP I agree with those who say you need to have a real heart to heart with your DH preferably with a counselor. You need to figure out what's really going on with him.

My experience is that when a man is giving you reasons to leave him, usually some part of him wants to be left.

If he's been humping since he was in his early twenties, got with you while he was in the process of divorcing, remarried you and had a child in short order, sounds like he may have been overly responsible from a very young age. He might just be grieving the carefree young adulthood he never had.

If that's the case (or what ever it is that's blocking him) you need to get it all out in the open. Sounds like there's a lot of good there so I wouldn't be so quick to throw it away until both of you have really tried to work it out.

 

[chronicity]

If y'all have great chemistry, he makes you laugh, and the sex is good...shoooot, I would say at least give it another year before you give up. Money and ambition are important no doubt, but its not as though he isn't working and it's not as though y'all are in the poor house either. You have just listed some qualities some women (like me) would honestly kill for in a guy.

I still think individual counseling might be good for you. It sounds like you're caught in a certain mindset of thinking the grass is greener on the other side (whether that "other side" be your own past or your husband's previous marriage). This could be a source of some of your discontent.

 

[ccd]

How long did you date? Was he working the entire time?

Because THANKS!!!! Was not enough

Ooooo I don't have anything to add really....I can't even think right now

 

[Evolving78]

girl go and work on your marriage. it is fixable. you just need to get down to the real issues of what is going on right now. he doesn't sound like dead weight or a bad man. folks go through their own personal ups and downs in a marriage and it has great impact on their spouse and family. what if one day, you emotionally fell on hard times and wasn't able to hold your end up in whatever department? have his back, but don't be a doormat.

these folks will have you divorced and you will be trying to figure out where you went wrong again... unless he is on drugs, abusive, cheating, gambling, etc.... you can work it out.

 

[Perfexion]

If he's been humping since he was in his early twenties, got with you while he was in the process of divorcing, remarried you and had a child in short order, sounds like he may have been overly responsible from a very young age. He might just be grieving the carefree young adulthood he never had.

I think you may have hit the nail on the head. He is also the oldest of nine so he always says that he missed his childhood. Although now it's kinda late for all that if you ask me!

 

[caltron]

I had about this thought for a split second right before I went back to work but I don't trust him at home with the baby. He just leaves her in the swing all day, only picking her up to feed and change her. He never picks her up or plays with her. Isn't that how serial killers are made? He doesn't think babies need social interaction, as if they're not human beings too! He plays more with the dog! But then again I think once the baby is older and is able to do more stuff, this will definitely change. She is starting to coo now and he has started talking to her like she's an actual person. This also came as a huge shock to me considering he (and his ex wife) was once so desperate to have babies. How could someone who wanted a baby THAT bad with somebody else not want to pick up their baby? That might just be a guy thing though.

See, this would be the straw that broke the camel's back for me. So not only is your hubby not pulling his weight financially, he's not supporting you or the family in other important ways. Yes, men do interact differently with their kids than women do, but here it sounds like he's barely interacting with her at all. It seems like he's treating her the same way he treats you--doing just enough to get by. A lot of times women accept bad treatment from man for themselves, but are more sensitive to it when it's directed toward their children. Basically you are having to be both Mommy and Daddy for your daughter in addition to taking care of a grown *** man.

I know divorce is not something to throw around lightly, but make no mistake, your situation is bad enough to where you should not feel in the least bit guilty about going there if you're that unhappy. DarkJoy's post about abusive relationships was no exaggeration. I am really not seeing many redeeming qualities in your dh. I don't think his companionship is worth the hell you're going through right now and I think it will only get worse.

I think if you stay with your hubby, he will do *just* enough to keep you from leaving and give you hope that things will get better, but nothing will really change. If you leave, you have a good chance of being happy, whether by yourself or with another man, and securing a better future for your daughter.

You've gotten sooo much good advice from too many posters to name. I think it would be good if you got some therapy to help you sort all of this out, whether it's couples therapy or individual therapy.

BTW: I think your daughter is not in danger of being a serial killer or psychopath. Those folks often suffered from a syndrome called Reactive Attachment Disorder as children. It's caused by a lack of interaction, but kids with RAD suffer from more extreme neglect than your daughter has with your dh. Still, I'd be furious that you dh is not taking his fatherly duties seriously, because she obviously would be much better off with meaningful interaction during the day.

 

[Mitre]

Girl at the end of the day you need to do you whatever that is. The ladies on this have given you good advice... What you see is what you get... If you are okay with his behavior then stay and make your marriage work.

One of my bum uncles( 60 plus years) recently divorce his high earning wife claiming that she is bitter and nagging. Truth be told he got half of everything in the marriage ( 401 k, house, savings, investment ...) Needless to say he got married to a younger women (42 years old). His wife supposedly (56 years old) looks like 80 years ( balding, wrinkles, overweight, mean, as well as a triple bypass). However she stayed and made the best of things. To me my bum uncle came made out like a thief in addition he now has a younger wife to take care/provide for him in his older years. Hey I cannot hate the player only the game.

Anyway good luck on whatever choice you make.

 

[Mortons]

I think you may have hit the nail on the head. He is also the oldest of nine so he always says that he missed his childhood. Although now it's kinda late for all that if you ask me!

I understand what he is saying as an oldest. Definitely. However, you can be childish and playful while still taking care of business. Maybe some personal counseling could help him work through this feeling. I understand how it can be, and counseling has helped me.

 

[Mitre]

I understand what he is saying as an oldest. Definitely. However, you can be childish and playful while still taking care of business. Maybe some personal counseling could help him work through this feeling. I understand how it can be, and counseling has helped me.

He has to want to change you cannot change someone. You cannot make a family member seek help because when the immediate threat disappears he will return to his old behavior. If this guy change it would be on his own time and his own terms trying to change him will be detrimental to the relationship. The fear of change may be so overwhelming to him that denial seem like a safer option. The only person who will change is you, you will age more quickly and compromise your values. This guy sounds like a sociopath/ opportunist/ depressive... Bum to me.

I may be projecting, but if the marriage dissolve i think he will look for another sugar mamma. That is the reason why the first marriage didn't work out. I don't believe for one second the first wife was infertile. As long as a child is involve a bum of a man will have a warm bed for life because he know she will always consider her child father. That is why I think having a child so quickly was so important. This man is not stupid..I have seen this situation played out countless times among my uncles and friends. You need to give up the fantasy of changing someone all you can do is change yourself. Please do not take his behavior personally you are not the cause of his thoughts. You are not the source of the lightening only the lightening rod. Instead of forcing him into therapy I think you need to consider it for yourself. Take care of yourself first and do not try to solve, fix or rescue this guy the only person that have the power to change is him. Let him take care of his responsibilities.

Look, if you decide to stay seek therapy because you will need it to keep the family grounded and to take care of yourself. Try to detach from his behavior and seek some time for yourself. Do not try and be a therapist to him that is not your role your role is to be a wife. Look You didn't cause it you cannot control it and you cannot cure it. Is there something in this relationship that meet your needs? Please note that people with cluster B personality are often engaging, charming and nice it works for them long term because then the good qualities will supersede the bad qualities because of intermittent reinforcement. Remaining hopeful is good but hope must be temper with a realistic view of the situation and an evaluation of the likely hood of change.

Now I am not suggesting you get a divorce as I stated earlier you need to do you. You need to take ownership of your choices and stop blaming your husband.

 

[Perfexion]

Just a little update: DH and I had a discussion about some of the things I'm unhappy about. I took some of the advice on here. I was clear and direct. I didn't talk down to him or offer any more ultimatums. I told him that I'm unhappy that he isn't more ambitious. He basically said the same thing that a few ladies here mentioned- that it's hard to find a permanent union construction job in a state where you don't know anyone. He has no friends or connections here and neither do I. He didn't want to get a non-union job (even though that's what he's doing now) because it offers no job security or benefits. He applied to a bunch of construction jobs in the beginning of our marriage but no company would honor his out of state certifications. He has to pay to get re-certified in this state in order to be considered a skilled worker but he didn't have the money. He said after hearing that same thing over and over again from employers he just quit trying. Of all the things that I have had to pay for in our marriage, I definitely would've forked up a couple hundred dollars for certifications so he could find gainful employment! He never even asked me!

He was kind of defensive at first. He didn't know why I was complaining. He says he has done everything I told him to do- I told him to get a job and he did, (even though he hated that job), I told him to get a better paying job and he did, I told him not to leave the baby in the swing all day and lately he has been playing with her more. It's true that at the time I gave him the ultimatum I hadn't mentioned getting a job to him, but I think it's silly that I have to TELL him to work or else he won't do it. What would've happened if I kept my mouth shut? He would still be unemployed! So now I see that he didn't love his first wife more. She was probably just bossy. And his mother and grandmother are both loud and overbearing so that explains a lot about him. The only thing is, he refuses to go to couples counseling with me because he doesn't want other people in his business (hope he never finds this board!) He did give me his whole paycheck and said he would continue to do so as long as I leave enough money in the account for him to travel to work and eat lunch everyday. I guess that's a step in the right direction. I still wish he would invest in those certifications or go back to school or something. When this construction contract ends in a few weeks, he's going to be unemployed again. Then I'd have to TELL him to go out and find another job!

 

[caltron]

Good for you for standing up to him and seeing through his BS excuses. I'm also glad you're discovering that the reason he was working more when he was with his ex wasn't because he loved her more. The problem is with him.

 

[sunnydaze]

Just a little update: DH and I had a discussion about some of the things I'm unhappy about. I took some of the advice on here. I was clear and direct. I didn't talk down to him or offer any more ultimatums. I told him that I'm unhappy that he isn't more ambitious. He basically said the same thing that a few ladies here mentioned- that it's hard to find a permanent union construction job in a state where you don't know anyone. He has no friends or connections here and neither do I. He didn't want to get a non-union job (even though that's what he's doing now) because it offers no job security or benefits. He applied to a bunch of construction jobs in the beginning of our marriage but no company would honor his out of state certifications. He has to pay to get re-certified in this state in order to be considered a skilled worker but he didn't have the money. He said after hearing that same thing over and over again from employers he just quit trying. Of all the things that I have had to pay for in our marriage, I definitely would've forked up a couple hundred dollars for certifications so he could find gainful employment! He never even asked me!

He was kind of defensive at first. He didn't know why I was complaining. He says he has done everything I told him to do- I told him to get a job and he did, (even though he hated that job), I told him to get a better paying job and he did, I told him not to leave the baby in the swing all day and lately he has been playing with her more. It's true that at the time I gave him the ultimatum I hadn't mentioned getting a job to him, but I think it's silly that I have to TELL him to work or else he won't do it. What would've happened if I kept my mouth shut? He would still be unemployed! So now I see that he didn't love his first wife more. She was probably just bossy. And his mother and grandmother are both loud and overbearing so that explains a lot about him. The only thing is, he refuses to go to couples counseling with me because he doesn't want other people in his business (hope he never finds this board!) He did give me his whole paycheck and said he would continue to do so as long as I leave enough money in the account for him to travel to work and eat lunch everyday. I guess that's a step in the right direction. I still wish he would invest in those certifications or go back to school or something. When this construction contract ends in a few weeks, he's going to be unemployed again. Then I'd have to TELL him to go out and find another job!

Thanks for the update. So since he is willing to do what you tell him to do, why not tell him to go get his in state certifications. You two are married so the money spent on this will benefit your whole family. If he makes a stink about it, term it as a loan that he pays back. Either way, he likely needs to do that to make more money in the long run.

 

[Middle]

Welp. Even though a lot of people didn't like my posts, it appears I was right about the burnout.

Y'all need to make a plan about how you're going to handle this out of state certifications thing, write it down and y'all make it happen together. you guys are a team! Say we're going to do this, and then we're going to do that. No more you do this, and you do that. Seems like his confidence has taken a hit and he's going to need some empowerment to get back on his feet. That doesn't mean he's weak, and you wouldn't be coddling him. I think it's really sweet he's going to hand over his checks to you. Seriously!

I really think he might have burnout and if he does I totally empathize.

 

[ambergirl]

Real talk. Most women have to tell their men what to do. That is the number one complaint from my married friends. It's just the way many of them are wired when in relationship.

He sounds like a good guy who just needs to be pushed a little. Given all the good there, if you can find a way to push him without feeling like you're turning into a nag, I think you two have a real shot at making it work.

Best of luck and congrats on your willingness to do your work. The more you show up in the relationship the more likely he will be to do so too.

 

[Southernbella.]

Interesting. Good luck to you, op. I suggest individual counseling for you because constantly having to tell him what to do is going to wear on you and create a stressful dynamic in your marriage. And no, I don't think that's normal at all.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using LHCF

 

[FelaShrine]

e did give me his whole paycheck and said he would continue to do so as long as I leave enough money in the account for him to travel to work and eat lunch everyday. I guess that's a step in the right direction

My grandmother didnt do this and she was a housewife

anyway..

did you mention schooling with him? like did you ask wht will happen after that construction job is over?

 

[BostonMaria]

OP so glad you guys talked. It's a step in the right direction.

Sent from my iPad using LHCF

 

[PopLife]

girl go and work on your marriage. it is fixable. you just need to get down to the real issues of what is going on right now. he doesn't sound like dead weight or a bad man. folks go through their own personal ups and downs in a marriage and it has great impact on their spouse and family. what if one day, you emotionally fell on hard times and wasn't able to hold your end up in whatever department? have his back, but don't be a doormat.

these folks will have you divorced and you will be trying to figure out where you went wrong again... unless he is on drugs, abusive, cheating, gambling, etc.... you can work it out.

This made me think of my sister, she thinks this board is a cult.
She is always saying keep listening to them women on that board, they gon' have you single!
I don't think all of ya'll are crazy!

 

[ambergirl]

Welp. Even though a lot of people didn't like my posts, it appears I was right about the burnout.

Y'all need to make a plan about how you're going to handle this out of state certifications thing, write it down and y'all make it happen together. you guys are a team! Say we're going to do this, and then we're going to do that. No more you do this, and you do that. Seems like his confidence has taken a hit and he's going to need some empowerment to get back on his feet. That doesn't mean he's weak, and you wouldn't be coddling him. I think it's really sweet he's going to hand over his checks to you. Seriously!

I really think he might have burnout and if he does I totally empathize.

I agree with you. The question for the OP is whether this is a season or a lifestyle for him.

It doesn't sound like he's a lazy or unmotivated man. So you might want to give him a bit more time and support him in seeking the certificate he needs.

More real talk: The first couple of years of any marriage are usually pretty rough especially if you have a child. The word divorce passed the lips of more than a few of my married friends in those early years Give it a bit more time and that will help you figure out whether the marriage can make it for the long haul.

 

[NijaG]

Interesting. Good luck to you, op. I suggest individual counseling for you because constantly having to tell him what to do is going to wear on you and create a stressful dynamic in your marriage. And no, I don't think that's normal at all.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using LHCF

erplexed I don't have much to add to that update because it was just very disturbing to read. I did not read any thing about him taking personal responsibility for the state of things in the marriage and how he has contributed negatively too it.

All I saw was a bunch of excuses and subtle-sly blame shifting. Now the OP has to basically be a mentor and mother-wife in addn to being a mother to a new baby.

I'm single, what do I know. If the OP likes it for her, I love for her too. I wish you all the best.

ETA: I don't think the paycheck thing is cute at all. It's just another addn burden on the OP. AFAIC, he's abdicating responsibility off the financial planning/responsibility and budgeting of the family.

 

[Southernbella.]

erplexed I don't have much to add to that update because it was just very disturbing to read. I did not read any thing about him taking personal responsibility for the state of things in the marriage and how he has contributed negatively too it.

All I saw was a bunch of excuses and subtle-sly blame shifting. Now the OP has to basically be a mentor and mother-wife in addn to being a mother to a new baby.

I'm single, what do I know. If the OP likes it for her, I love for her too. I wish you all the best.

I agree with you. And you don't have to be married to see where this is headed.

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