Make him feel like a man

[barbiesocialite]

erplexed I don't have much to add to that update because it was just very disturbing to read. I did not read any thing about him taking personal responsibility for the state of things in the marriage and how he has contributed negatively too it.

All I saw was a bunch of excuses and subtle-sly blame shifting. Now the OP has to basically be a mentor and mother-wife in addn to being a mother to a new baby.

I'm single, what do I know. If the OP likes it for her, I love for her too. I wish you all the best.

ETA: I don't think the paycheck thing is cute at all. It's just another addn burden on the OP. AFAIC, he's abdicating responsibility off the financial planning/responsibility and budgeting of the family.

I agree with you. And you don't have to be married to see where this is headed.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using LHCF

 

[DarkJoy]

He was kind of defensive at first. He didn't know why I was complaining. He says he has done everything I told him to do- I told him to get a job and he did, (even though he hated that job), I told him to get a better paying job and he did, I told him not to leave the baby in the swing all day and lately he has been playing with her more. It's true that at the time I gave him the ultimatum I hadn't mentioned getting a job to him, but I think it's silly that I have to TELL him to work or else he won't do it. What would've happened if I kept my mouth shut? He would still be unemployed! So now I see that he didn't love his first wife more. She was probably just bossy. And his mother and grandmother are both loud and overbearing so that explains a lot about him. The only thing is, he refuses to go to couples counseling with me because he doesn't want other people in his business (hope he never finds this board!) He did give me his whole paycheck and said he would continue to do so as long as I leave enough money in the account for him to travel to work and eat lunch everyday. I guess that's a step in the right direction.

See, I don't think you get it. You're already playing mommy to this man and don't even realize it. He even gets allowance as opposed to things being budgeted?

Well, good luck...

 

[ambergirl]

This made me think of my sister, she thinks this board is a cult.
She is always saying keep listening to them women on that board, they gon' have you single!
I don't think all of ya'll are crazy!

not a cult but most people don't tell the truth about what's really going on in their relationships and what they really do and have done when faced with the challenges the OP is facing.

That's why I at all the bravado some folks seem to have. One day crooning about how great things are with DH, next day trolling the divorce subforum.

 

[sunnydaze]

Again, if he's willing to do what you tell him to do, then tell him what you want him to do. I think that is a seperate issue than telling him and him refusing to do anything.

Yea that's irritating, yea that's mothering, but if it gets you both the end result you want (him working consistently and making more money) then it worked. I also see it as an opportunity for him to prove to you he is serious about providing for his family. Now if you go through all that and he comes up with excuses to not do anything differently, you have some decisions to make.

 

[Mitre]

Again, if he's willing to do what you tell him to do, then tell him what you want him to do. I think that is a seperate issue than telling him and him refusing to do anything.

Yea that's irritating, yea that's mothering, but if it gets you both the end result you want (him working consistently and making more money) then it worked. I also see it as an opportunity for him to prove to you he is serious about providing for his family. Now if you go through all that and he comes up with excuses to not do anything differently, you have some decisions to make.

You cannot tell an adult what to do unless that adult is mentally incapacitated. He is an adult and should know what to do. If her suggestions do not go as plan he would throw it in her face. He is a man by telling him what to do you are treating him like a child thus emasculating him. Eventually he will get tired of this and she will become bossy like his ex wife mother and grandmother. This adult man wants to be treated like a child ? Who will lead the household ? Who is the head of this household ?

OP do not tell your man what to do let him decide for himself or both of your decide as a family.
Sorry OP but this relationship sounds co-dependent you are taking care of him. This is not a good way to begin a marriage.

 

[Middle]

not a cult but most people don't tell the truth about what's really going on in their relationships and what they really do and have done when faced with the challenges the OP is facing.

That's why I at all the bravado some folks seem to have. One day crooning about how great things are with DH, next day trolling the divorce subforum.

Girl yes. And it wouldn't be the first time. I also feel some kinda way about professed SAHMs and/or other women who don't contribute to their household's significantly (if at all), telling the OP what they would or wouldn't do. It doesn't matter what you would or would not do.... if your husband lost his job y'all would be stuck and outta luck. That's it.

 

[Middle]

Again, if he's willing to do what you tell him to do, then tell him what you want him to do. I think that is a seperate issue than telling him and him refusing to do anything.

Yea that's irritating, yea that's mothering, but if it gets you both the end result you want (him working consistently and making more money) then it worked. I also see it as an opportunity for him to prove to you he is serious about providing for his family. Now if you go through all that and he comes up with excuses to not do anything differently, you have some decisions to make.

I don't agree with this. I've always learned that its supposed to be a partnership. So you work together to figure things out together. You don't send one person out to go at it alone. Its we we we. No you you you.

 

[NijaG]

The OP mentioned great chemistry, sex and laughing everyday as part of the good things happening in the marriage now.

Well, if you follow his suggestion of telling him what to do and the issues that will crop up from it, those "good" aspects are going to gradually fade.

My Ex had a crass saying..........

A woman's p**** will start to run dry, the longer a man doesn't do what he's suppose to do.

I don't think your husband has made enough deposits into your Love Bank for you to be able to handle this long time.

He's attitude towards couples therapy makes me suspect he'll also be resistant to individual therapy. So frankly you're really going to be the only one working on this marriage, because, he's fine benefit he's getting. His needs are being met.

 

[PopLife]

Again, if he's willing to do what you tell him to do, then tell him what you want him to do. I think that is a seperate issue than telling him and him refusing to do anything.

Yea that's irritating, yea that's mothering, but if it gets you both the end result you want (him working consistently and making more money) then it worked. I also see it as an opportunity for him to prove to you he is serious about providing for his family. Now if you go through all that and he comes up with excuses to not do anything differently, you have some decisions to make.

I think some people are taking the whole "telling" him what to do too literally. Not every man comes out the blocks knowing how to be the "perfect/unicorn husband" and vice versa.
In hindsight maybe she missed this red flag about her Dh but at this point they are married with a child...her running out to get a divorce is not going to completely resolve her issues. The part in marriage vows for richer or poor, for better or worse applies to both parties....

 

[sunnydaze]

I'm not saying telling him what to do for life, merely in this instance and specifically I am talking about the certifications thing.

 

[ambergirl]

I'm not saying telling him what to do for life, merely in this instance and specifically I am talking about the certifications thing.

It sounds like the OP has been married for something like two years? I just don't see walking away that early in the relationship especially given that they have a child and there is a lot of love there .OP only you know your man and your marriage. You will know if it's worth staying or when it's time to go. Follow your instincts and intuition.

 

[chronicity]

So OP's husband doesnt seem to mind the mother-child dynamic between him and his wife. In so many words, he's telling the OP that this who he is, take it or leave it.

So the OP needs to figure out if she can handle being married to a man who has to be instructed to pull his weight properly. Can she manage this without going feverish with contempt and resentment? Will she be able to treat him with respect so that her child will grow up seeing loving parents? Can she eventually get used to it?

The only person who can answer these questions is the OP.

 

[hopeful]

Did you guys consider you moving instead of him? Sounds like he gave up a situation that will be very hard to duplicate. I think that is the case for most people who aren't highly or well-educated. His capital is his years of contacts and certifications, vs. education. Y'all didn't plan for how he would find work at all? Both of you need to sit down and back-track and do what you should have done before he moved. And I hate to tell you this but most wives are a little smarter than their husbands, and if she's much more educated, she ends up needing to manage things. You married a guy who only knows how to cope within a certain environment and now he's like a fish out of water. I know what kind of husband you wish you'd married, but that's not the guy who asked you to marry him, not the guy you said yes too. You were smitten and lonely, and inadvertently married down. I'd give it a couple years. Put your thinking caps on and get to work. Figure out how to make it work there or move to his old city, but whatever you do, get busy, get to planning, and accept the man you married: a construction worker who is not super educated or ambitious, but he is sweet and willing to work.

And when I suggest moving I don't mean pick up and go. I mean plan, save money, have jobs set up ahead of time, etc. have a plan A, B, C, and D. And I don't think you have to mother him. Plan together (but you will be leading a bit more in the beginning) but once he's got his footing (if he is indeed the man you say he is) he will be off and running. You may have to manage the bills, but if you got plenty money that's not so stressful. But I implore you to love him for who he is, for what he brings to the party. I've seen women marry men knowing full well he is not the MBA, soon to be partner, mover and shaker type, and then want to be disappointed about not getting everything they dreamed of. Your guy is probably sweeter and more fun than most of those type of guys anyway.

 

[auparavant]

I just want to say that you should know why someone got divorced before you entertain marrying him/her. It does make a difference. Surely, there are two sides, but if the information that OP was dealing with was given in addition to the "real fault," you'd be able to sift through it and go in or avoid it with eyes open. His first relationship absolutely does matter. Thinking that you are going to be the shining exception is often a falsehood.


Counseling!

 

[ManeStreet]

all I'm going to say is this. you don't really know what he was doing for his ex wife. men are always going to paint them self in the best light to get you.

I have a strong feeling that if you were to be a fly on the wall when he was with his ex wife; you would have seen that he was financially irresponsible then as well.

men lie. and there's 2 sides to every story. if he was making so much money before then why would he need 2 jobs just to support 2 people with no kids AND they were still struggling financially. that doesn't add up. sounds like he was always under employed or he never knew how to manage money & has a pattern of living above his means.

unless you know for a fact that she was not working for an extended amount of time, I do not believe him.

I believe that was just a line he used to hook you. he knew you are a financially secure an educated woman so he knew he had to paint himself as a provider type of man or you wouldn't be attracted to him and wouldnt want to continue the relationship seriously

that's also a risk with long distance relationships. you aren't seeing that person on a day to day basis so it's more difficult to distinguish the lies from the truth.

my point is some of your issues are based on judging him off of a past that may not be true at all.

 

[LivingInPeace]

You need to have the marriage YOU want to have. People can give you advice but it's usually based on what they want from a marriage. If you believe there's a way to make this marriage work with THIS man then go for it. But remember he is who he is. You can't transform him into your ideal. This is a full grown man, not some twenty year old still in development.

 

[NappyNelle]

There are so many introspective and thoughtful posts in this thread. Thank you for sharing your own experiences, anecdotes, and advice to Perfexion.

 

[MuseofTroy]

We glossing over the fact that this man left his first wife because she was unable to have children? RED FLAG!!! That's pretty heartless to me. You were okay with marrying someone like that? Man the signs are always there.

But back on topic. THe issue I'm detecting that you don't respect your husband and I don't blame you. A man who doesn't work goes against his nature which is to protect and provide. Has your husband thought about an alternative career path? Even if he gets all the construction jobs in the world, that's not a viable career for the long term because eventually the body is going to wear down. Construction is a medium to heavy occupation and those guys are prone to injuries. Has your husband thought about going back to school and get retraining? Maybe he can do Project Management?

 

[MuseofTroy]

perception is everything.

To me, when I read this, I think of it from the standpoint that it's most likely a black woman that would sign-up and ok to be some man's mule. They do it all the time. White and other women are less likely to be some man's slave. They will leave you or roll out before the engagement is over. You got stacks, prove it. Black women give all this kinda benefit of the doubt, marrying bums and whatnot, then wonder why they get played......just because you have your own and make your own has nada to do with the man, ever. matter of fact, a man should never know how much you are worth or how much you make IMO. none of their business. They need to know that regardless of what I can do, I won't be doing so they need to get on it. There is no other option because the minute a ninja get comfortable with me, I'm not nagging or b*tching, I'm most likely leaving...like most white women and others....every other race of woman knows sex costs $$$. Even in marriage. But BW are quick and the first to call such a woman that holds this as a value system a hooker or heaux. *ye shrug* OP been playing the ride or die role from the gate, now she's tired. But to me it sounds like she set this up for herself as her fate right off the break....IDK, I can't relate to this mindset a lot of--IMO BW--hold, then get mad when a man becomes comfortable with it.

Can the church say Amen? So much truth in this post. Thanks is just not enough. I'm fascinated by women who have a mule mentality. The man is suppose to take care of his woman not laying around. I respect a man who works and tries his very best to make sure his wife is comfortable. It's a damn same when I see women, especially pregnant women busting their butts trying to put food on the table. Working for a married woman should be optional. My daddy told me that if a man can't support himself and a family on his own income then he shouldn't get married. BOOM.

 

[hopeful]

Can the church say Amen? So much truth in this post. Thanks is just not enough. I'm fascinated by women who have a mule mentality. The man is suppose to take care of his woman not laying around. I respect a man who works and tries his very best to make sure his wife is comfortable. It's a damn same when I see women, especially pregnant women busting their butts trying to put food on the table. Working for a married woman should be optional. My daddy told me that if a man can't support himself and a family on how own income then he shouldn't get married. BOOM.

Love it! Your dad sounds awesome.

 

[FoxxyLocs]

We glossing over the fact that this man left his first wife because she was unable to have children? RED FLAG!!! That's pretty heartless to me. You were okay with marrying someone like that? Man the signs are always there.

The stress of infertility may have been part of what drove them apart, but I don't get the feeling that he just up and left when he found out she couldn't have children.

 

[Oneprettypa]

That's why I at all the bravado some folks seem to have. One day crooning about how great things are with DH, next day trolling the divorce subforum.

That's real life though... Marriage is hard and it's work and its hard work!! Lol I'm still learning that. A few months ago I was all up and through the divorce forum but thank God my hubs and I were able to pull through and are now honeymooning again! Lol that's just my truth.

 

[Southernbella.]

My daddy told me that if a man can't support himself and a family on how own income then he shouldn't get married. BOOM.

Love it. I told my ds the exact same thing the other day. He's only 5, but it's never too early.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using LHCF

 

[MuseofTroy]

Girl yes. If I have sons they are going to learn early on that they are required to take care of their wife. It's very difficult for a woman to nurture if she has to bust her butt working like a dog and is under stress to provide for the family. THat's against her nature. People want to know why Black women are stressed out, resentful, hostile, mean, and don't feel like smiling at random people? Well damn if you were under extreme pressure to ensure your family's survival, you would act bitter too. I get it. There are emotional and physical consequences to women taking on masculine roles. There is no way in hell a pregnant woman should have to work. We forget that pregnancy is the most dangerous time for a woman. Stress can cause real damage to the fetus but people dismiss how risky pregnancy is because we live in a 1st world country with access to good medical facilities.

 

[ambergirl]

That's real life though... Marriage is hard and it's work and its hard work!! Lol I'm still learning that. A few months ago I was all up and through the divorce forum but thank God my hubs and I were able to pull through and are now honeymooning again! Lol that's just my truth.

That is absolutely the truth about any marriage but to hear some people tell it here and in IRL they have it all figured out or they don't tell the truth about what's really going down in their relationship.

That's fine. Nobody needs to be in your marriage but you and he, but then I find it disingenuous for folks to give advice they themselves aren't and won't follow.

Sometimes I think the hen house is our worse relationship enemy. I share next to nothing about my relationships with friends and family because I find most advice is more about who those people are or their relationship challenges then what's going on with me and mine.

 

[Zaynab]

Just a little update: DH and I had a discussion about some of the things I'm unhappy about. I took some of the advice on here. I was clear and direct. I didn't talk down to him or offer any more ultimatums. I told him that I'm unhappy that he isn't more ambitious. He basically said the same thing that a few ladies here mentioned- that it's hard to find a permanent union construction job in a state where you don't know anyone. He has no friends or connections here and neither do I. He didn't want to get a non-union job (even though that's what he's doing now) because it offers no job security or benefits. He applied to a bunch of construction jobs in the beginning of our marriage but no company would honor his out of state certifications. He has to pay to get re-certified in this state in order to be considered a skilled worker but he didn't have the money. He said after hearing that same thing over and over again from employers he just quit trying. Of all the things that I have had to pay for in our marriage, I definitely would've forked up a couple hundred dollars for certifications so he could find gainful employment! He never even asked me!

He was kind of defensive at first. He didn't know why I was complaining. He says he has done everything I told him to do- I told him to get a job and he did, (even though he hated that job), I told him to get a better paying job and he did, I told him not to leave the baby in the swing all day and lately he has been playing with her more. It's true that at the time I gave him the ultimatum I hadn't mentioned getting a job to him, but I think it's silly that I have to TELL him to work or else he won't do it. What would've happened if I kept my mouth shut? He would still be unemployed! So now I see that he didn't love his first wife more. She was probably just bossy. And his mother and grandmother are both loud and overbearing so that explains a lot about him. The only thing is, he refuses to go to couples counseling with me because he doesn't want other people in his business (hope he never finds this board!) He did give me his whole paycheck and said he would continue to do so as long as I leave enough money in the account for him to travel to work and eat lunch everyday. I guess that's a step in the right direction. I still wish he would invest in those certifications or go back to school or something. When this construction contract ends in a few weeks, he's going to be unemployed again. Then I'd have to TELL him to go out and find another job!

Thanks for the update OP! I'm glad you all were able to talk. I'm still a bit confused and believe your original posts about your DH were misleading--either about who he really was as a or or how you viewed him. I think your main issue was that he is a blue collar worker and maybe you were reconsidering your choice. If he was an ambitious provider as you originally stated in his first, I honestly don't think his lack of work would turn him into an oblivious bloke for lack of a better word to the stress of finances and him not leading in the household. I am glad though that you re-directed your approach when speaking to him. Know that you will continue to have to lead him and perhaps financially at times and own that. As I previously said, I'm never an advocate of divorce unless there is a willful intent to neglect and not provide and/or abuse, anything else is negotiable.

I know that in a marriage, especially a new marriage it's hard to be real with what it was the beginning and we often fictionalize or look over things that we don't want to own. I always tell people to "Choose your choice". It isn't always the choice we would always make if we had to do it again but once you're in a marriage, you have to commit to the choice. Good luck OP

 

[Zaynab]

Did you guys consider you moving instead of him? Sounds like he gave up a situation that will be very hard to duplicate. I think that is the case for most people who aren't highly or well-educated. His capital is his years of contacts and certifications, vs. education. Y'all didn't plan for how he would find work at all? Both of you need to sit down and back-track and do what you should have done before he moved. And I hate to tell you this but most wives are a little smarter than their husbands, and if she's much more educated, she ends up needing to manage things. You married a guy who only knows how to cope within a certain environment and now he's like a fish out of water. I know what kind of husband you wish you'd married, but that's not the guy who asked you to marry him, not the guy you said yes too. You were smitten and lonely, and inadvertently married down. I'd give it a couple years. Put your thinking caps on and get to work. Figure out how to make it work there or move to his old city, but whatever you do, get busy, get to planning, and accept the man you married: a construction worker who is not super educated or ambitious, but he is sweet and willing to work.

And when I suggest moving I don't mean pick up and go. I mean plan, save money, have jobs set up ahead of time, etc. have a plan A, B, C, and D. And I don't think you have to mother him. Plan together (but you will be leading a bit more in the beginning) but once he's got his footing (if he is indeed the man you say he is) he will be off and running. You may have to manage the bills, but if you got plenty money that's not so stressful. But I implore you to love him for who he is, for what he brings to the party. I've seen women marry men knowing full well he is not the MBA, soon to be partner, mover and shaker type, and then want to be disappointed about not getting everything they dreamed of. Your guy is probably sweeter and more fun than most of those type of guys anyway.

Great post

Sent from yacht with Beyonce & Blue

 

[crazytrish75]

This was along the lines of what my cousin was saying about him treating WW and BW differently. A lot of BM play the "BW are too independent and don't need a man' card when they end up with a WW. That puts me in a bind because if I do take some of the advice and get a divorce then I'm thinking he is going to end up with another WW, working two jobs to support her and make it seem like it was because of me that it didn't work out and why he'll never date another BW ever again. I guess I shouldn't care about that but do understand, while the fact that he isn't ambitious is a HUGE problem for me, there are other facets of our relationship that are built on love. I did rush into marriage but I didn't just randomly pick him because he was there. We get along well. We understand each other. We have great chemistry. Our sex life is great. We make each other laugh every single day. It's just not so funny when the bills are due and he reaches for MY checkbook. I want to ask if leaving a man who has everything I want except money/ambitious is worth it, but I think I already know what everyone is going to say.

^^^ at the bolded. I think this right here is the crux of your issues. Is everything "MIne" (yours?) I applaud you for doing what alot of women have not, you got out there and made something of yourself and have been very successful. However, I believe you are unhappy because you married a man "beneath" you. You stated yourself that he is an awesome guy except for the fact that he is not ambitious enough. I believe that you have been so independent and take charge for so long, that you don't know how to be any other way.

Now, you needed to get him off his a$$ and make him get a job, I totally agree with that. But if everytime a bill is due or he needs a certification, etc., it is "your" money handling things, then I can see where there is a problem. There is no more "yours" and "mine" once you are married. "And two shall become one" Do you guys live in a home that you had already purchased when you got married? If so, your man probably feels like an unwanted guest. Because I tell you what, based on your posts, you resent the hell out of him because he is not what you expect him to be. And I would bet you the amount in "YOUR" bank account, he knows this.

I don't believe that a woman should baby and coddle a man, but I do believe that BOTH partners need to encourage and uplift each other, not tear each other down when times are rough (whether it be with words or body language, or pointing out the fact that he is spending "your" money on the bills). He doesn't feel like your partner. He isn't cheating, he isn't abusive and he is working. This marriage is salvageable if you want to save it. But you are going to have to let him feel like he is going through this life equally with you, side by side. Flip this situation around, suppose he was the financially succesful one and you relocated to be with him, couldn't find a job and he was continually and overtly OR subtly implying that you were a dead weight and he was tired of carrying you and paying for things with "HIS" money? How would you feel? It goes both ways in a marriage. MArriage is like a plant, it will grow if you put the time and effort into watering and nurturing it. THAT is the key to a succesful marriage.
Let me clarify that I do not believe that any woman should nurture a marriage with a total sh*tbag, but that doesn't sound like the case here at all, OP. I think he can be what you want him to be with some encouragement and gentle nudging in the way you want him to go. But you are going to have to make him feel like he's worthy of you.

As for the baby, alot of men are uncomfortable around them, especially with us mother hens watching their every move. Our babies are our most precious gifts and we are and should be overprotective. I know I felt that my DH couldn't perfectly change the diaper like I could or feed her exactly what I felt was nutritionally best. But I held my tongue (and exuded positive body language) and let him, do him. No harm came to my babies and he got more and more comfortable so that by the time our second came around, he was a pro and as good as me at taking care of them.

Don't underestimate the power of the unspoken word (body language). I have been married almost 18 years and it was difficult too in the beginning. I wish you the best.

 

[UmSumayyah]

Changing up immediately after marriage is a gigantic red flag, imho.

I would agree with not throwing in the towel yet, and Zaynab and hopeful have given excellent advice.

My only addition is, don't have any more kids until he straightens out and has been for some time.

 

[PureSilver]

Just a little update: DH and I had a discussion about some of the things I'm unhappy about. I took some of the advice on here. I was clear and direct. I didn't talk down to him or offer any more ultimatums. I told him that I'm unhappy that he isn't more ambitious. He basically said the same thing that a few ladies here mentioned- that it's hard to find a permanent union construction job in a state where you don't know anyone. He has no friends or connections here and neither do I. He didn't want to get a non-union job (even though that's what he's doing now) because it offers no job security or benefits. He applied to a bunch of construction jobs in the beginning of our marriage but no company would honor his out of state certifications. He has to pay to get re-certified in this state in order to be considered a skilled worker but he didn't have the money. He said after hearing that same thing over and over again from employers he just quit trying. Of all the things that I have had to pay for in our marriage, I definitely would've forked up a couple hundred dollars for certifications so he could find gainful employment! He never even asked me!

He was kind of defensive at first. He didn't know why I was complaining. He says he has done everything I told him to do- I told him to get a job and he did, (even though he hated that job), I told him to get a better paying job and he did, I told him not to leave the baby in the swing all day and lately he has been playing with her more. It's true that at the time I gave him the ultimatum I hadn't mentioned getting a job to him, but I think it's silly that I have to TELL him to work or else he won't do it. What would've happened if I kept my mouth shut? He would still be unemployed! So now I see that he didn't love his first wife more. She was probably just bossy. And his mother and grandmother are both loud and overbearing so that explains a lot about him. The only thing is, he refuses to go to couples counseling with me because he doesn't want other people in his business (hope he never finds this board!) He did give me his whole paycheck and said he would continue to do so as long as I leave enough money in the account for him to travel to work and eat lunch everyday. I guess that's a step in the right direction. I still wish he would invest in those certifications or go back to school or something. When this construction contract ends in a few weeks, he's going to be unemployed again. Then I'd have to TELL him to go out and find another job!

Sometimes a man needs to be pushed and it doesn't have to be done in a harsh way. Continue to communicate with him honestly. Communication is key, i think he needs your support more than you know. So much came out in that discussion you had with him.

I'm glad that you got somethings out. Keep praying and do ask god for guidance. I'll keep your family in my prayers. All the best!!