Black Women And Late Marriage

Kanky

Well-Known Member
http://muslimbushido.blogspot.com/2015/09/white-womens-wedding-season-of-life-is.html?m=1

In between working on my latest novel, I’ve glanced at a couple of articles that tie into something that a friend and I have been discussing lately. Here are the articles:
Gabrielle Union Opens Up About the Difficulties of Getting Pregnant at 42
Tyra Banks Courageously Shares About Struggling to Start a Family


White Women’s “Wedding Season of Life” Runs From Around Age 24-28
Leaving aside the details of these two celebrities’ personal lives, their fertility problems point out a bigger problem that has gone unnoticed among most African-American Black women (AABW). Here’s what most AABW don’t fully comprehend because we tend to have such segregated social lives:
Middle-class, professional, reasonably attractive White women’s “wedding season of life” is from age 24-28 years old. More or less. This is the normal—and really, optimal—age range for this particular life experience in a modern, industrialized society like the U.S. For middle class White American women, this is a season of life in which they’re almost constantly serving as bridesmaids in their female friends’ and relatives’ weddings.
What I’ve noticed is that the few AABW who do get married to AA Black males are for the most part getting married approximately a decade later than their WW peers. AABW who marry AA Black males are getting married a decade later because of African-American Black males’ anti-family values and refusal to offer marriage to Black women, including the women they impregnate and shack up with.

Let’s remember, it’s the man who proposes and offers marriage to the woman. It’s not like there’s ever been a bunch of AABW refusing marriage proposals. NO, what’s been happening for decades is that AA negro males have been withholding the opportunity for marriage. So, please let’s not play dumb and pretend that the lack of marriage among AAs is due to AABW refusing Black males’ proposals.

Doing Things “Out of Season” Creates Unnecessary Hardships in Life
Doing things “out of season” creates unnecessary difficulties in life. Contrary to new school Fantasy Island ideology, there really are seasons in life. It’s best and easiest to do things during their proper season. It’s often possible to do things late, but doing things late typically increases the difficulty involved ten-fold:
Balancing work and getting a G.E.D. is much harder than simply staying in high school and graduating at the normal age and stage of life.
Balancing work, parenting responsibilities and college is much harder than getting your undergrad degree before [getting married and] having children.
Similar negative dynamics apply to women who get married a decade after the optimal professional American woman age range of 24-28. Delaying marriage until one’s 30s increases the odds of fertility problems. This delay also means that both parties are coming to the marriage with a different“head space”—they’re coming to the marriage more set in their own ways after having spent an extra decade living as a single adult who didn’t have to factor anybody else into their decisions. This is not particularly conducive to the cooperation needed for successful married life.


These older marriage ages among AABW (and the quality of life penalties created by these older marriage ages) are caused by AA negro males’ anti-family values and resistance to marriage.

Here’s another “quality of life penalty” that a lot of AABW who restrict themselves to dating AA negro males don’t want to face:
Older parenthood (on both the mother’s and father’s part) significantly increases the risks of birth defects, mental illness, autism spectrum disorders, etc. See the article How Older Parenthood Will Upend American Society: The scary consequences of the grayest generation.
I won’t even get into the extreme emotional stress that fertility problems and fertility treatments put on a couple’s marriage. Even when biologically successful, older parenting increases the risk of dying before your children are ready to face the world:
What haunts me about my children, though, is not the embarrassment they feel when their friends study my wrinkles or my husband’s salt-and-pepper temples. It’s the actuarial risk I run of dying before they’re ready to face the world. At an American Society for Reproductive Medicine meeting last year, two psychologists and a gynecologist antagonized a room full of fertility experts by making the unpopular but fairly obvious point that older parents die earlier in their children’s lives. (“We got a lot of blowback in terms of reproductive rights and all that,” the gynecologist told me.) A mother who is 35 when her child is born is more likely than not to have died by the time that child is 46. The one who is 45 may have bowed out of her child’s life when he’s 37. The odds are slightly worse for fathers: The 35-year-old new father can hope to live to see his child turn 42. The 45-year-old one has until the child is 33.
These numbers may sound humdrum, but even under the best scenarios, the death of a parent who had children late, not to mention the long period of decline that precedes it, will befall those daughters and sons when they still need their parents’ help—because, let’s face it, even grown-up children rely on their parents more than they used to. They need them for guidance at the start of their careers, and they could probably also use some extra cash for the rent or the cable bill, if their parents can swing it. “If you don’t have children till your forties, they won’t be launched until you’re in your sixties,” Suzanne Bianchi, a sociologist who studies families, pointed out to me. In today’s bad economy, young people need education, then, if they can afford it, more education, and even internships. They may not go off the parental payroll until their mid- to late-twenties. Children also need their parents not to need them just when they’ve had children of their own.
Any way you slice it, this is not a pretty picture. What’s truly bizarre is how AABW have normalized this epidemic of fewer and much later marriages (and the problems created by such). AABW normalize this mess in order to cater to the Damaged Beyond Repair masses of AABM who are anti-marriage and therefore are anti-stable family. As was discussed in the post Catering To Damaged Black Men By Deliberately “Getting It Twisted”:
During the course of several recent conversations about the No Wedding, No Womb campaign, I’ve heard some Black women make incredibly nonsensical and convoluted arguments in support African-American women continuing to have the majority of their children out of wedlock (oow). They are opposed to any suggestion that more (heterosexual) African-American women should get their childbearing choices back in sync with time-tested human norms. Specifically, the time-tested human norm of “no wedding, no womb.” They take this position despite the unmitigated catastrophe oow has caused for the African-American collective. Basically, according to them, marriage is for every other type of human woman except Black/African-American women. . . . [ ]


Frankly, I don’t believe that many Black women are that stupid. Instead, I believe that many of them adopt these arguments because doing otherwise would mean the end of “nuthin’ but a brother” business as usual. Adhering to normal, human standards for mate selection and procreation would mean acknowledging that the vast majority of African-American males are unfit and unwilling to function as men by serving as competent protectors and providers.
Once an African-American woman acknowledges this fact, the next logical step is for her to expand her dating and marriage options to include non-Black men the global village. Doing that would require a woman to leave the (false) comfort zone of dealing with the dysfunctional collective of Black men.
Furthermore, most AAs refuse to tell the truth about the normal age range of non-AA women during their first marriages in this society. Instead, far too many AA slaves (of both genders) propose having a baby out of wedlock during one’s 20s as the solution to the AA marriage-related fertility problems created by AA negro males’ aversion to marriage and their stalling to delay marriage. That's downright crazy.
Yet More Reasons To Expand Your Dating & Marriage Pool If You Want A Healthy Marriage
In summary, if you as an AABW want to maximize your odds of a happy, fulfilling married life you need to get your life choices back in synch with middle-class White America’s seasons of life experiences. As much as possible.
The reality is that the majority of [mostly fatherless, born as bastard babies themselves] AABM aren’t willing to align their baby-making with the human norms regarding marriage.
Which means that if you’re serious about marriage and family, you need to remove the masses of fatherless and anti-family AABM from your dating pool and date and marry out.



Thoughts?
 
The only thing I agree with in this article is is a universal marrying age IMO, race aside... When men are more and or less likely to get married. I don't think AA women are doing anything different but there's a disconnect on both sides to connect at that age.
 
The only thing I agree with in this article is is a universal marrying age IMO, race aside... When men are more and or less likely to get married. I don't think AA women are doing anything different but there's a disconnect on both sides to connect at that age.

Although I wouldnt apply the following to the majority as rule, value usually increases with age. However after a certain point theres usually a plateau establishing a standard that wont get much higher no matter how more years are invested

Women that marry in their early and mid twenties usually marry their peers. That said, these women tend to go for cheap, easy(er) and require less work and investment to obtain. That's the foundation of their marriage. The bar may not be the lowest but isnt that high. While they grow together by mid thirties the permanent standard of expectation is usually set. The best theyll ever get and the best theyll likely be treated by their spouse and within their marriage. What may have been high value as an early wife usually translates mediocrity by mid thirities. Mediocre is where is usually stays.

That's great for Becky. Personally my marriage approach is less like white women but more like Indian and Asian American women who often wait longer and marry slightly later until their thirties. If I were to compare the 10 white married women to 10 married Indian/Asian women. White women may have married first but Asians/Indians usually married better. While I wont apply this to AA women as a group, I will say that most of the black women that are similar in lifestyle, social standing and upbringing closer to the later married Indian/Asians often produce similar results. Unfortunately that doesnt apply to all black women but it usually applies only to those black women with baseline familial & social foundations akin to the Asians/Indians. I can only speak for myself, my girlfriends and observations comparing different black women/wives/mothers I saw growing up but the women who married the best and had the best marriages usually werent the young/youngest wives. Compared to their majority of their peers of the time they married later or almost late and usually werent the youngest hottest moms at the school. However, usually ended up with higher quality everything on average and longevity in the long run compared to the average outcomes of the youngest wives. At 36 while the young wives are busy getting divorced, exhausted and stretched thin, the "old" wives are 36 sitting pretty working on a new house and a new baby with a much more mature quality husband than the young wives had in a more stable situation that some of those same young wives are still struggling to have.

That said, younger marriage has never appealed to me. I'll pass. I'd rather risk waiting til my thirties to be an old wife. *ye shrug*.


eta: actually the above pattern also applies to quite a few of history's well married women, including white ones. Quite a few women with iconic marriages didnt get it until slightly later or til their 30s or 40s as a second marriage since the first one was a bust. Jackie O for example was technically a spinster for her time when she married JFK. Her little sister married before her and older women, including her mother, were worried she may never get married. welp. womp womp, lol
 
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Are you talking first generation Asians and Indians?

Just the majority I personally know or encounter or are associates of friends.

After college my facebook feed was overwhelmed with white weddings. Sweet, cute, quaint weddings. Now at the beginning of my thirties vacay trips to India or overseas for destination weddings have been everywhere. I cant think of a single Indian or Asian wedding I attended during my twenties now folks just seem to be coming out of nowhere. Brown and ethnic weddings everywhere. lol Those cute quaint weddings and picnic engagements on my fb feed seem to be replaced by private jet proposals and ritzy galas where the bride and groom arent getting blenders and toaster ovens they're getting thick white envelopes.:look:
 
What haunts me about my children, though, is not the embarrassment they feel when their friends study my wrinkles or my husband’s salt-and-pepper temples. It’s the actuarial risk I run of dying before they’re ready to face the world. At an American Society for Reproductive Medicine meeting last year, two psychologists and a gynecologist antagonized a room full of fertility experts by making the unpopular but fairly obvious point that older parents die earlier in their children’s lives. (“We got a lot of blowback in terms of reproductive rights and all that,” the gynecologist told me.) A mother who is 35 when her child is born is more likely than not to have died by the time that child is 46. The one who is 45 may have bowed out of her child’s life when he’s 37. The odds are slightly worse for fathers: The 35-year-old new father can hope to live to see his child turn 42. The 45-year-old one has until the child is 33.

As an older mother I have to protest here. Is she saying that a 46 year old "child" is not ready to face the world? Really?
I'm raising my son to be ready for the world at 20. I do expect to live until I'm 60 and hopefully much longer (I was 40 when he was born). When my son is 46, I hope he's more than ready to face the world, I hope he has found his place in society and done some wonderful things for himself and his family. I'm not raising him to be dependant on me at 40+.

People act like having a baby 10 years after the rest of the world is the big divider. It's only 10 years. Many have their first baby around 30, at least over here. I'm not that much more tired and sickly than I was at 34 lol! :lol:

Yet More Reasons To Expand Your Dating & Marriage Pool If You Want A Healthy Marriage
In summary, if you as an AABW want to maximize your odds of a happy, fulfilling married life you need to get your life choices back in synch with middle-class White America’s seasons of life experiences. As much as possible.
The reality is that the majority of [mostly fatherless, born as bastard babies themselves] AABM aren’t willing to align their baby-making with the human norms regarding marriage.
Which means that if you’re serious about marriage and family, you need to remove the masses of fatherless and anti-family AABM from your dating pool and date and marry out.

This quote is just racist. Her agenda really shines through here. We should become like white women and we should marry white. White is right. Yay. AABM are all bastards.

Thanks for your opinion Muslimbushido!
 
As an older mother I have to protest here. Is she saying that a 46 year old "child" is not ready to face the world? Really?
I'm raising my son to be ready for the world at 20. I do expect to live until I'm 60 and hopefully much longer (I was 40 when he was born). When my son is 46, I hope he's more than ready to face the world, I hope he has found his place in society and done some wonderful things for himself and his family. I'm not raising him to be dependant on me at 40+.

People act like having a baby 10 years after the rest of the world is the big divider. It's only 10 years. Many have their first baby around 30, at least over here. I'm not that much more tired and sickly than I was at 34 lol! :lol:



This quote is just racist. Her agenda really shines through here. We should become like white women and we should marry white. White is right. Yay. AABM are all bastards.

Thanks for your opinion Muslimbushido!

You peeped that too? I really had to scroll back up bc for a moment I was sure Christelyn wrote it.
 
Well.....the article has phrases that make me question the self-hatred level of the writer ("negro AA male" and there are a couple more that made me :look:) and young marriage never appealed to me personally, but it doesn't seem like what the writer is saying is that out of step with the views expressed in other threads.

I don't think I'm unusual of a black woman in that I wouldn't have wanted to be married within that window she is mentioning. Well actually, I have a few friends my age who did want to be married during that time, but for the most part a lot of us are on our own timeline regarding marriage, as the article says. There's comfort in seeing it become so common to see women in their early to mid thirties who want a family but haven't settled down and married yet. But I'm just awakening to the fact that biology is still real. :look: there's a group of career women I know (as I mentioned in the Tyra infertility thread) who are ten years ahead of me and did the whole "I'll wait until my mid thirties" approach and life didn't hand them the perfect catch at that time so now they are late thirties/early forties and worried about their fertility and other options. So it holds a mirror up to me and my peers in their thirties like,......."could that be us?" Cause, basically, those women didn't place a timeline on themselves but are now rushing to beat time. And the next line of women, and the line after us, are encouraged to not be a slave to timelines (and its not that you should worry about it, but there is a reality gap, I think, because people only tend to be frank and matter of fact about this subject after women have passed childbearing age. Like, if you are 45 and can't get PG "oh well what did you think?" But if you're 33 and not in a rush then "yeah, do you!" Thats cruel. And I know those ages are not set for everybody but some people would want a scary inflammatory article in advance).

I think this article is crass in its idealization of white women and assumptions about black people, but I don't see the problem in attempting to alert its reader base to the potential downsides of waiting for marriage if you would like a cookie cutter family. I think a lot of us don't think there is a downside because, culturally (U.S. And AA), the common message to women in their 20's and mid 30's is to "do you," accomplish your career goals, let life unfold as it may, people are having babies older, etc.

At the same time, the message to women in theirs late 30's/early 40's who are having conception issues is ".....well......what have you been doing?" It's not doing anyone any favors to tell them to live their life with no timeline when that may not be the case. I understand that this particular article is not the best or most credible messenger but it's not totally inaccurate. A lot of the other things young black women will read may have them living in a world of pure imagination right up until the time it rudely awakens their/our arse so I mean, there's room for articles like this.
 
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Pieces of it had good points but it was a hard read as the author was shading the audience the entire time.

:lol: I tried to cut and paste the good points without the shade at first, but gave up because there was too much shade work around.

I posted it anyway because I was just noticing the other day that I had stopped getting invitations to weddings for WW and that a lot of the black women that I know are just getting married. There are also quite a few still single and we are kind of old for that.
 
Now, the stuff about a 45 year old not being able to face the world....wth

My parents had me when they were in their mid twenties. Now my mother is retired, very healthy and has enough energy to help me with my kids. More importantly my parents don't need me to take care of her right now while I am raising young children. My husband's parents are older than mine, he has siblings who are close to my parents age. His parents are slowing down and need their children to help them with things. Now his older siblings have time for this because their kids are grown or close to it but if we had to do it alone then it would be a burden.
 
The article said fertility problems may arise if you get married later. I truly think more often than not, bw already have kids by then. This article tried it though

This. there are all of these little holes and gray areas left out. the audience intended doesnt match the conclusion reached.

For entertainment's sake there are arguments that could be made against late marriage in favor of yong but this article ain't it. My own hypothetical devil's advocate against my own arguent would crush the weak article. lol

I kinda know who/the type of black women the article is referring. but it's for Christelynns and women that are usually committed to long term blue collar life who arent all that upwardly mobile to begin. Unfotunately there are a lot of black women like that. However it doesnt apply everywhere. I can tell you right now this ish would not fly and sounds really country bumpkin ish if it were made here to most of my single and married friends. Even for those that married between 24-29 babies were never coming before 30. They'll fight you on that too. lol. But for real, we probably have a lot more education and longer money (present and/or future) on average than the article the women is talking about. I dont want to be like middle class Becky in Tennessee or GA who married her college sweetheart when I grow up. Good for them where they are but its not a good look here. That doesnt work for me. Id rather risk dealing with fertility treatments later instead. That actually doenst look as bad as being a young mom does to me. So telling me her norms and average compared to the black women she's arond is just not a good look and holds virtually no weight. What works some places wont walk everywhere. I dont know about that life, dont want to know, will never know. sadly, the article really is true for a certain segment of the population. As for me, that super youg mommy life isnt cute or deseriable everywhere. Excse my snobbery but my nose turned up a little when I read the OP. :look:
 
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The article said fertility problems may arise if you get married later. I truly think more often than not, bw already have kids by then. This article tried it though

That is less than ideal though. I see a lot of black women get married in their 30's and either she or her husband already has a kid with someone else. Drama ensues. This is just an unnecessary stressor on black families (especially any children involved) and I think that it contributes to black people's higher than average divorce rates.
 
I don't have any answers, don't know what the answers are, don't know if there's a right/ideal age. For purposes of fertility 20s and early 30s might be best.....for purposes of happiness and marriage longevity...I Don't know. I've seen it all.

Lasting marriages from ppl who got married in their 20s, 30s and even 40s
People marrying in their 20s and divorcing, ppl marrying in their 30s and divorcing
ppl on their second and third marriages in their 30s and 40s
Ppl never getting married

Seriously....um, live and be happy and love
Get married when the one has found you


All these long theories about marriage and the divorce rates in the tank

No answers
 

This. there are all of these little holes and gray areas left out. the audience intended doesnt match the conclusion reached.

For entertainment's sake there are arguments that could be made against late marriage in favor of yong but this article ain't it. My own hypothetical devil's advocate against my own arguent would crush the weak article. lol

I kinda know who/the type of black women the article is referring. but it's for Christelynns and women that are usually committed to long term blue collar life who arent all that upwardly mobile to begin. Unfotunately there are a lot of black women like that. However it doesnt apply everywhere. I can tell you right now this ish would not fly and sounds really country bumpkin ish if it were made here to most of my single and married friends. Even for those that married between 24-29 babies were never coming before 30. They'll fight you on that too. lol. But for real, we probably have a lot more education and longer money (present and/or future) on average than the article the women is talking about. I dont want to be like middle class Becky in Tennessee or GA who married her college sweetheart when I grow up. Good for them where they are but its not a good look here. That doesnt work for me. Id rather risk dealing with fertility treatments later instead. That actually doenst look as bad as being a young mom does to me. So telling me her norms and average compared to the black women she's arond is just not a good look and holds virtually no weight. What works some places wont walk everywhere. I dont know about that life, dont want to know, will never know. sadly, the article really is true for a certain segment of the population. As for me, that super youg mommy life isnt cute or deseriable everywhere. Excse my snobbery but my nose turned up a little when I read the OP. :look:

This is so interesting to me because most of the black women I know that married well, married not long after grad school. I'm also not sure that your chances of marrying a high quality husband increase as you age. High quality men may be easier to spot by then because they have arrived instead of being up and coming, but there is also competition from younger women. Men know that fertility declines as women age so unless they want to get married and get pregnant in the same year, they tend to pick women who are a little younger. Like he's35 and she's 30.

I have not seen late marriage work out for most of the well educated black women that tried it. Or at least it hasn't thus far. Maybe the 35-40 year old single black women on my facebook feed will get married and have a baby in the next couple of years, but it seems like they've missed the boat, because their male peers are married already. A lot of them to women who are younger than they are.
 
That is less than ideal though. I see a lot of black women get married in their 30's and either she or her husband already has a kid with someone else. Drama ensues. This is just an unnecessary stressor on black families (especially any children involved) and I think that it contributes to black people's higher than average divorce rates.

It's the same thing early marriers.

Well young marriages have the highest divorce acriss the board. black, white, rich, poor, homeless, OOW or in wed lock.

If drama is a concern try all the drma resulting broken families from failed young marriages. By the time folks are 40 a you have do it go look at mailbox to see the different last names in one household or when old friends calls a folks Mr/Mrs wrong last name bc it keeps changing or drop by on Christmas blood siblings raised in the same house but each kid has a sepaerate different family of their own + the one they live with.

Drama? If you want drama that;s some drama for your arse :lachen:
 
It's the same thing early marriers.

Well young marriages have the highest divorce acriss the board. black, white, rich, poor, homeless, OOW or in wed lock.

If drama is a concern try all the drma resulting broken families from failed young marriages. By the time folks are 40 a you have do it go look at mailbox to see the different last names in one household or when old friends calls a folks Mr/Mrs wrong last name bc it keeps changing or drop by on Christmas blood siblings raised in the same house but each kid has a sepaerate different family of their own + the one they live with.

Drama? If you want drama that;s some drama for your arse :lachen:

Yeah, but those young marriages include the people who got pregnant in high school and college and then dropped out to get married. The teenage marriage divorce rate is like practically all of them. :lol: It is completely different than those that got married between 24-28.
 
This is so interesting to me because most of the black women I know that married well, married not long after grad school. I'm also not sure that your chances of marrying a high quality husband increase as you age. High quality men may be easier to spot by then because they have arrived instead of being up and coming, but there is also competition from younger women. Men know that fertility declines as women age so unless they want to get married and get pregnant in the same year, they tend to pick women who are a little younger. Like he's35 and she's 30.

I have not seen late marriage work out for most of the well educated black women that tried it. Or at least it hasn't thus far. Maybe the 35-40 year old single black women on my facebook feed will get married and have a baby in the next couple of years, but it seems like they've missed the boat, because their male peers are married already. A lot of them to women who are younger than they are.


To this I say, people are different.. different environments, differnt states, differnt social standards for different people. Who/what is consideered marrying well doesnt mean the same thing everywhere.

Frozen eggs and fertility treatments undesirable failures to some folks but common place and borderline a status symbol in others. But for most women that want children the babies usually come regardless. Harder or requires more effort for some but produces the same quality children. I *personally* can only think of maybe one or two women chidlessness wasnt a choince. They wanted children but for whatever reason could never have them. But for both age and time of marriage had nothing to do with it.

What some folks consider married well or ideal where they are from makes me happy for them. bless your heart. :look:

That's' all I got. :look:
 
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