Black Female Interracial Marriage Ezine

[BeautifulFlower]

This WHOLE POST

With all due respect, I am not enchanted by anyone's whiteness. And, there's no group in my paradigm that would qualify as a "wonderful white man group". These are your preconceived notions that you assume people hold. Not mine. I've never even dated a white person or an non-black person for that matter. I simply have not been disrespected by one in the way we are discussing here. Why that has to become a lesson in racism against BLACK people, I have no idea.

When I mentioned the story intially, I didn't mention black men. You brought that up apparently to demonstrate that my and SO's reaction to the wm was disproportionate and inconsistent. Not sure how a thread on interracial dating has to revert back to how black men are being discriminated against, but, whatever, if it makes one feel more loyal, then so be it. I don't have that need. Trust me, I have gone deeper down the black man loyalty rabbit hole than you could imagine. Spent ten years of my life dedicated to ministering to, teaching, recruiting, mentoring, assisting, donating to, etc. wayward black men while in the NOI. I'm over it.

I've released myself of the need to tie each and every living experience into some sort of referendum on why we need to bet on black first. I'm going with the flow. This doesn't involve pretending white men have a history of showing crass disrespect toward women in public just because I know some types of black men do. I can't make every experience of my life about validating a group who has refused to live like civilized, self-respecting individuals.

As I stated earlier, I haven't written all black men off. My son is a black man, my father is a black man, as are my uncles and my SO. I adore them all. And, I can see the difference between good black men and the awful ones. I'm sorry it's uncomfortable for some. But, again, just because it is a priority for you to measure out experiences for disparate responses between groups, does not make it a priority for everyone. And, it does not mean one group is more revered than another. That's waaaay too simplistic. I may not be on the captain save a black man train as much anymore but it isn't because I think white men are saviors. It's just better for them to heal themselves, imo.

 

[mischka]

With all due respect, I am not enchanted by anyone's whiteness. And, there's no group in my paradigm that would qualify as a "wonderful white man group". These are your preconceived notions that you assume people hold. Not mine. I've never even dated a white person or an non-black person for that matter. I simply have not been disrespected by one in the way we are discussing here. Why that has to become a lesson in racism against BLACK people, I have no idea.

When I mentioned the story intially, I didn't mention black men. You brought that up apparently to demonstrate that my and SO's reaction to the wm was disproportionate and inconsistent. Not sure how a thread on interracial dating has to revert back to how black men are being discriminated against, but, whatever, if it makes one feel more loyal, then so be it. I don't have that need. Trust me, I have gone deeper down the black man loyalty rabbit hole than you could imagine. Spent ten years of my life dedicated to ministering to, teaching, recruiting, mentoring, assisting, donating to, etc. wayward black men while in the NOI. I'm over it.

I've released myself of the need to tie each and every living experience into some sort of referendum on why we need to bet on black first. I'm going with the flow. This doesn't involve pretending white men have a history of showing crass disrespect toward women in public just because I know some types of black men do. I can't make every experience of my life about validating a group who has refused to live like civilized, self-respecting individuals.

As I stated earlier, I haven't written all black men off. My son is a black man, my father is a black man, as are my uncles and my SO. I adore them all. And, I can see the difference between good black men and the awful ones. I'm sorry it's uncomfortable for some. But, again, just because it is a priority for you to measure out experiences for disparate responses between groups, does not make it a priority for everyone. And, it does not mean one group is more revered than another. That's waaaay too simplistic. I may not be on the captain save a black man train as much anymore but it isn't because I think white men are saviors. It's just better for them to heal themselves, imo.

PREACH. I had to read this post twice. I also have to say it's a said state of affairs that your views have so much credibility solely because you have never dated non black men - if someone who has had expressed this same perspective it could and most likely would be totally dismissed.

 

[brown_skin_poppin]

I'm down with the swirl lol

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[SND411]

I dont think picking up a woman like that is "cute". Thats disrespectful.

 

[MissYocairis]

I dont think picking up a woman like that is "cute". Thats disrespectful.

Perhaps. It was just not that deep for us at the time. The atmosphere wasn't threatening, disrespectful, misogynistic or unsafe. It's not that deep now either.

 

[Honey Bee]

This doesn't involve pretending white men have a history of showing crass disrespect toward women in public just because I know some types of black men do.

~Charlotte*York~, I thought the white guy in your (original) post was quite disrespectful and there certainly is a loooong history of white men disrespecting black women, in public or otherwise. I definitely wouldn't have treated such behavior lightly. He not only disrespected you, but your SO as well. (another part of wm's brand of disrespect for a bw) I wouldn't want him thinking that kind of behavior was acceptable (in the future, when dealing with other black women and their SO's). I was actually surprised at your reaction.

I never got the impression that mwedzi was a ride-or-die, I love my 'kang' type, so I'm unclear as to why you took that particular approach in your last post.

 

[MissYocairis]

PREACH. I had to read this post twice. I also have to say it's a said state of affairs that your views have so much credibility solely because you have never dated non black men - if someone who has had expressed this same perspective it could and most likely would be totally dismissed.

Seems like these interracial threads come already fully equipped with a gallery of naysayers. Those who feel it is their duty to point out that you are worshipping wm as your savior so that you can check yourself and be saved. erplexed and, that's for anyone who has an opinion on non-black men whether you have dated them or not. We are in the same boat.

 

[MissYocairis]

~Charlotte*York~, I thought the white guy in your (original) post was quite disrespectful and there certainly is a loooong history of white men disrespecting black women, in public or otherwise. I definitely wouldn't have treated such behavior lightly. He not only disrespected you, but your SO as well. (another part of wm's brand of disrespect for a bw) I wouldn't want him thinking that kind of behavior was acceptable (in the future, when dealing with other black women and their SO's). I was actually surprised at your reaction.

I never got the impression that mwedzi was a ride-or-die, I love my 'kang' type, so I'm unclear as to why you took that particular approach in your last post.

That's fine. That's your opinion. I have lived enough and experienced enough to know how I will handle treatment on various occassions and to be comfortable with it. I'm not a rookie, but I appreciate your sharing how you would have handled it. We handled it differently. We were having a ball and we weren't bothered by it. I've already explained why it didn't bother us. I'm not going to keep qualifying it. If you would have handled it differently, that is for YOU. I'm perfectly comfortable with the way SO and I handled it. We found it hilarious. And, then we moved on. Matter of fact, I hadn't even thought on it after that night until I read this thread and was reminded of it.

As for my last post, I was responding to being accused of "being enchanted by" a "wonderful white man group". These are mwedzi's words used to describe me. That was offensive and untrue in addition to being way off the mark.

I was also responding to being somewhat "baited" into a discussion about being discriminatory against black men as though this experience and my perspective has absolutely no foundation or experience. I don't need to be schooled on the "plight" of the black man, believe me.

 

[Renewed1]

Nothing I want to add. But I would like to think mischka, beautifulflower, charlotte york, etc for sharing their insights and experiences with WM overall.

 

[anon123]

With all due respect, I am not enchanted by anyone's whiteness. And, there's no group in my paradigm that would qualify as a "wonderful white man group". These are your preconceived notions that you assume people hold. Not mine.

But, didn't you say that the reason you were not offended by his behavior is because he was white? Or more accurately, because he was not black? That if he had been black neither you nor your SO would have stood for it? That's not a preconceived notion of mine; it's what you said. How is that not better treatment because he's been placed in a better group? The core of the belief seems to be "white men have not disrespected me as often as a group, so any individual white man's behavior is automatically less threatening to me." I guess that's what all the discussion about previous experiences with disrespectful black men has to do with this particular experience at the bar we were discussing? Well, okay. And really, I guess I can understand the psychology behind that, "classical conditioning," even though I still think it can be problematic.

I'm still lost on the "loyalty" bit, though. The only idea I was trying to throw in the mix was "don't treat a black person worse for doing the exact same thing." Because that sort of differential treatment, however it is "justified," is dangerous for me, too. For all of us. But somehow that gets thrown in the "being loyal to black men who don't deserve it" category.

Anywho just want to say that this is relevant for this thread. I have dated wm before and also just generally hang around a lot of white people, so I hope it means something for me to say to those who are interested, don't accept disrespectful behavior from anyone, including wm. And then wonder what went wrong . . .

Okay, I promise, I'm done now. Seriously, I don't want to offend you, Charlotte*York. I'm sorry for that. I actually like your posts in general. It's just an idea I saw coming up (and not in your post alone) that I felt compelled to speak on.

 

[lushcoils]

I have dated wm before and also just generally hang around a lot of white people, so I hope it means something for me to say to those who are interested, don't accept disrespectful behavior from anyone, including wm. And then wonder what went wrong . . .

I've also dated nbm before, but they came at me correctly. I don't find drunk advances from wm (or any man for that matter) cute, flattering, or respectful at all. And I don't get when women rejoice in these kinds of occurrences.

 

[qchelle]

Even though I disagree with ~Charlotte*York~ , I understand what you're saying, definitely.

I have another question for you. You said that one reason you weren't offended by the WMs behavior at the club was because it wasn't a threatening atmosphere to begin with. So I'm under the impression that it was more of an upscale, swanky-er club. So if a BM had done this (picked you up, carries you) at this particular club, you would have still felt threatened, in danger, disrespected? Im just assuming that the BM in this club were of the same caliber as the WM in the club. That they didn't seem like a freaknik type crowd anyway.

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[BeautifulFlower]

I personally think you all are taking HER experience way too personal. It's like she had a funny story that could have been a bad situation that she decided to laugh off and keep it moving, and turn it into why she should be angry about it. Really?!?! Does she have to turn a positive perspective into a negative one?!?!

Charlotte, I understand why you weren't not upset. It was random and unexpected not only because he was white but because it was just random as hell. You probably figured the white guy thought of some wild way to get you two stay and SO was flattered in a weird way that they wanted you all to stay. And culturally for white people to do crazy ish when intoxicated is well known and can be funny. Like in my crazy story. They don't mean harm and they often think you wont be offended but will laugh. But culturally for black men to step out and do something similar may be seen as an attempt to take your girl and a territory thing because black men are seen as a more aggressive type. Is it stereotypical? Absolutely...but we would all be naive to think we didn't live in a world that holds stereotypes and that we don't use them ourselves to make decisions.


Sending BeautifulFlowers from my iPhone

 

[qchelle]

And just for the record, I wouldn't have been offended, grossed out, threatened if it was a black guy who'd done it. Nor would I had been if a white guy had done it. I mean if we're just going on that one scenario of 'picked up and carried somewhere in a playful manner'. Now if someone had smacked my bootay or something like that then yea....that's bad..

 

[Nelli04]

well this thread went sour lol...

 

[DirtyJerzeyGirly]

well this thread went sour lol...

...................

@~Charlotte*York~ a lot of things you said I agree with and has been my experience as well.

 

[Whimsy]

Recently, my SO and I went out to a bar and were socializing and just having a good old down home time...it was a white bar. Anyway, as we were leaving and giving our best wishes to all the white folx we met, a white guy PICKED ME UP and CARRIED ME THROUGHOUT THE CLUB in FRONT of my man! I think they are getting bold ladies! He was a ginger too... But cute as hell. My SO wasn't threatened, but he discussed it all the way home.

OMG!
That would've freaked me out (in a please don't put your hands on me - let alone remove me from the ground - stranger kinda way), and DH wouldn't have been "threatened" he'd be "threatening" to kill that dude . That would've been a bad scene. I can't believe your SO was cool with that. He must be so chill.

 

[mychai]

You're absolutely right. It all depends on personal experience which is highly subjective based upon where you live, where you work, where you hang out, your religion, etc, etc, etc.

I agree with this 100%. I don't think you should discount your personal experience. If someone comes at you wearing a ski mask and carrying a loaded gun, assume that you are about to be robbed.

I just think it's strange to have different reactions to similar behavior based on the race of the person involved. If you don't like male aggression and misogyny, IMO, it shouldn't matter if the aggressor has black skin, brown skin or white skin.

 

[qchelle]

Awwww man. I'm sorry if I contributed to the sourness of the thread. I didn't mean to, honest!


Lol but really, my bad.

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[mischka]

I just think it's interesting that a woman can post how she feels about something and, because it's something that one personally takes issue with, an army is gonna pop and demand that she feel differently. I hate posting things in mediums like this and having someone a.) twist my feelings and thoughts and experiences into things I don't feel and b.) demand that my feelings about my own life are invalid

This doesn't help the cause when people have to manipulate words and situations in order to make a point.

 

[mychai]

I would say that I have observed that people tend to be harder on their own race which is natural and makes sense especially if you are around your own race more. Its like...

- a black man saying white women are better because black women have attitudes but we all know white women attitudes too
- a white man saying black women are better because white women are weak but we all know white women can be equally as strong
- a black women saying ....

You get the point.

I have first had experienced how disrespectful white men can be. It is different from what I have experienced with black men but it is disrespectful none the less. I have experienced the way they talk about women they are sleeping with or females around them in general. These things they say behind their back. VERY VERY HARSH and disrespectful words. I think, "wow, I wonder how they talk about me when I'm not around."

So just because we point out that our black men do some disrespectful things, its not saying we don't acknowledge other races can be equally disrespectful.

The bolded hasn't been my experience. Instead, I generally see black people being harder on other blacks. I think white people bend over backwards to excuse substandard behavior amongst their own and rarely (I'm thinking of the workplace) have I seen a white person take the side of a black person against a fellow white. On the flip side I see black people distance themselves from each other and through each other under the bus all of the time.

I think Mdwezi elegantly and comprehensively made her point, and I don't think it can be explained away by saying "white people do it too." If a black man exhibitied the questionable behavior that we are discussing towards a white woman while she was on a date with a white man, I seriously doubt that she would think of it as a cute and funny situation #justsayin

 

[Whimsy]

I just think it's interesting that a woman can post how she feels about something and, because it's something that one personally takes issue with, an army is gonna pop and demand that she feel differently. I hate posting things in mediums like this and having someone a.) twist my feelings and thoughts and experiences into things I don't feel and b.) demand that my feelings about my own life are invalid

This doesn't help the cause when people have to manipulate words and situations in order to make a point.

There's the rub.
This board would be a lot different if more women were OK with other women not thinking exactly like them.

 

[Etherealsmile]

I just think it's interesting that a woman can post how she feels about something and, because it's something that one personally takes issue with, an army is gonna pop and demand that she feel differently. I hate posting things in mediums like this and having someone a.) twist my feelings and thoughts and experiences into things I don't feel and b.) demand that my feelings about my own life are invalid

This doesn't help the cause when people have to manipulate words and situations in order to make a point.

Absolutely, since this fun thread has turned quite sour, i might as well add my input i sure hope Charlotte does not return to address all those questioning "well what if a black man..." its fine if you react to a situation differently from others, really it is but don't question others or try to bend their arms backward just because they're different from you and obviously will react differently to situations than you do.

That's what makes us all individuals, if we all responded to things the exact same way, i'm sure i'd be signing up to live in space as i'd be sure an alien invasion was definitely in the works

This is definitely one of the many reasons why I share as little as possible on this board. From past threads, i've seen how women can gang up on one woman to twist her arm to agree with their view points.

Quite sad if you ask me

 

[Honey Bee]

Absolutely, since this fun thread has turned quite sour, i might as well add my input i sure hope Charlotte does not return to address all those questioning "well what if a black man..." its fine if you react to a situation differently from others, really it is but don't question others or try to bend their arms backward just because they're different from you and obviously will react differently to situations than you do.

That's what makes us all individuals, if we all responded to things the exact same way, i'm sure i'd be signing up to live in space as i'd be sure an alien invasion was definitely in the works

This is definitely one of the many reasons why I share as little as possible on this board. From past threads, i've seen how women can gang up on one woman to twist her arm to agree with their view points.

Quite sad if you ask me

Etherealsmile, I definitely did not intend to do all that. I'm familiar enough with Charlotte York's posts to have erroneously assumed that she 'didn't play that,' so to speak. Based on her e-persona, I was (understandably, I think) surprised that she wouldn't react negatively to what she described as light-weight man-handling. I shared what I would have done as a rhetorical tool to illustrate what *I* believed was an appropriate response, not to demand she go back in time and get his @ss told, lol. I don't expect everybody to think like me, that would be super boring, but I do hope that they'll share their reasoning when asked. Not to hold it against them, it's never that serious , just because I like to know how people think, especially when we disagree. Charlotte York explained her position well, which is why I didn't follow up.

 

[BeautifulFlower]

Well it's great to know we all have different points of view, experiences, and ways of processing information. We are individualsl humans after all.

It would be even better if (like Mischka said) we didn't have to defend why we believe or feel a certain thing. A story was shared, express how horrific it would have been if it was you or laugh because you think it's the funniest thing in the world, and keep it moving.

All this extra is really unnecessary.

The bolded hasn't been my experience. Instead, I generally see black people being harder on other blacks. I think white people bend over backwards to excuse substandard behavior amongst their own and rarely (I'm thinking of the workplace) have I seen a white person take the side of a black person against a fellow white. On the flip side I see black people distance themselves from each other and through each other under the bus all of the time.

I think Mdwezi elegantly and comprehensively made her point, and I don't think it can be explained away by saying "white people do it too." If a black man exhibitied the questionable behavior that we are discussing towards a white woman while she was on a date with a white man, I seriously doubt that she would think of it as a cute and funny situation #justsayin

Sending BeautifulFlowers from my iPhone

 

[Whimsy]

I like to know how people think, especially when we disagree.

I'm the same way. Just curious.

I've learned (well...i'm still learning) to be very delicate when trying to phrase the questions because asking people about their thinking on things often leads to defensiveness.

 

[Honey Bee]

I'm the same way. Just curious.

I've learned (well...i'm still learning) to be very delicate when trying to phrase the questions because asking people about their thinking on things often leads to defensiveness.

Me too! I sound so harsh online, but I don't think it comes across like that irl... I've been led to believe my nosiness is 'cute.'

 

[10WordzOrLess]

Well it's great to know we all have different points of view, experiences, and ways of processing information. We are individualsl humans after all.

Disrespect and mistreatment is subjective in some instances, here especially.

 

[Whimsy]

Me too! I sound so harsh online, but I don't think it comes across like that irl... I've been led to believe my nosiness is 'cute.'

HA!!!
I've been led to believe my nosiness is....nosy. Hasn't stopped me.

 

[MissYocairis]

But, didn't you say that the reason you were not offended by his behavior is because he was white? Or more accurately, because he was not black? That if he had been black neither you nor your SO would have stood for it? That's not a preconceived notion of mine; it's what you said. How is that not better treatment because he's been placed in a better group? The core of the belief seems to be "white men have not disrespected me as often as a group, so any individual white man's behavior is automatically less threatening to me." I guess that's what all the discussion about previous experiences with disrespectful black men has to do with this particular experience at the bar we were discussing? Well, okay. And really, I guess I can understand the psychology behind that, "classical conditioning," even though I still think it can be problematic.

I'm still lost on the "loyalty" bit, though. The only idea I was trying to throw in the mix was "don't treat a black person worse for doing the exact same thing." Because that sort of differential treatment, however it is "justified," is dangerous for me, too. For all of us. But somehow that gets thrown in the "being loyal to black men who don't deserve it" category.

Anywho just want to say that this is relevant for this thread. I have dated wm before and also just generally hang around a lot of white people, so I hope it means something for me to say to those who are interested, don't accept disrespectful behavior from anyone, including wm. And then wonder what went wrong . . .

Okay, I promise, I'm done now. Seriously, I don't want to offend you, Charlotte*York. I'm sorry for that. I actually like your posts in general. It's just an idea I saw coming up (and not in your post alone) that I felt compelled to speak on.

mwedzi yes, I did say that and I stand by it. And, I also get your point. Our departure is that you see it as problematic whereas, it is not problematic for me in the least.

I always like your posts and I have a lot of respect for you. We can agree to disagree and I will still always read and appreciate your POV.