Are You Against Shotgun Weddings?

[JayAnn0513]

if you dont know that many and you dont have this issues directly around you then why support shotgun weddings the whole concept should be just as foreign to youre personal life as single motherhood

Shotgun weddings are one of the reasons why I don't know that many oow single mothers. Like I said in my family that ish is a no go. You get married or you have an abortion. My Mother was honest about my options from the time i was old enough to like boys. With my close friends most had kids after marriage. The ones that didn't all but 1 married their child's father.

 

[danniegirl]

Shotgun weddings are one of the reasons why I don't know that many oow single mothers. Like I said in my family that ish is a no go. You get married or you have an abortion. My Mother was honest about my options from the time i was old enough to like boys. With my close friends most had kids after marriage. The ones that didn't all but 1 married their child's father.

thats a interesting concept that a family would either pressure someone to get married or to have an abortion it's even more interesting (kind of fantasy like) if you are talking about grown men and women.

Honor thy parents i get that, rules, regulation and expectations i get those also. However what i don't believe, is that a young Afro-American women would feel as if she would be shamed to death, outcast-ed, stoned,exiled or even emotionally jailed for the decisions she makes as adult (im not talking about children here) Especially being apart of an American culture that teaches all about feminism, a women's right to chose, independence and then we have this group of African Americans that would put all that on the back burner in order to save face i just find it so redundant and ill just anti productive.

 

[Kurlee]

Doubtful. There is a reason why I've always been told to date men only from two-parent homes (btw, not all of these were ideal 2-parent homes).

IME, the only way these couples are breaking up is if the woman wants out. From the way my exes were with me, they will hang in there if they feel obligated or responsible. They are the man-up kind so I doubt they'll leave their wives any time soon. My grandparents have been together since they were 15. Both of my aunts are still married and their kids are grown. And my father refuses to give my mother a divorce and she left him 10 years ago.

that sounds like a really insulated "perfect" world that you live in, but it's not reality for most people.

 

[barbiesocialite]

that sounds like a really insulated "perfect" world that you live in, but it's not reality for most people.

I've already pointed out that I grew up in a religious family (both sides) and was extremely sheltered as a child/teen, naturally the friends I had to choose from were of the same suit. My parents did a good job protecting me from things and people and, subsequently, values they considered harmful. As a result, no I don't know a lot of people with OOW children and shotgun marriages are protocol for most of the people I know that are unmarried & pregnant.That said, I understand it's not the norm for the average AA, but it is the norm for me and will instil these same values in my children and family.

 

[Kurlee]

I remember a thread we had about whether or not peoples moms married the right man. There were tons of answers where people wished their parents were not together. I don't come from a 2 parent household so I can't imagine that feeling....but the thread was really interesting.

people conveniently forget threads like that or the ones where they confess to all the OOW sex they had and GLAD they didn't have kids those dudes. I strongly believe in marriage but the stepfordy, marry at all costs thing skeeves me out. It seems like people care more about being married than the actual marriage.

 

[Kurlee]

Because for some in our community, marriage is ascribed unicorn status that only the pure, chaste, and that person's version of the perfect black person (LSLH, UE, etc.) can achieve. I wish we would stop that.

i really think you are missing the boat on this one. This is NOT the counter argument at all.

 

[Kurlee]

They were manipulative women you forced a man to marry them. I call that a Quain.

they're upper echelon and get money and status out of it, so it's OK in that case. Laquida on the corner, though, better quit with that mess and know her place.

 

[JayAnn0513]

thats a interesting concept that a family would either pressure someone to get married or to have an abortion it's even more interesting (kind of fantasy like) if you are talking about grown men and women.

Honor thy parents i get that, rules, regulation and expectations i get those also. However what i don't believe, is that a young Afro-American women would feel as if she would be shamed to death, outcast-ed, stoned,exiled or even emotionally jailed for the decisions she makes as adult (im not talking about children here) Especially being apart of an American culture that teaches all about feminism, a women's right to chose, independence and then we have this group of African Americans that would put all that on the back burner in order to save face i just find it so redundant and ill just anti productive.

I don't consider it pressure. It's just the way we do things. I was also raised not to go throwing the cookies out to any man that would have them, and to only date man you'd be willing to marry. By the time I got to adulthood these things were so ingrained in me that if I had gotten pregnant at before I married DH he already knew the deal. Luckily his parents raised him the same way. They had a shotgun wedding and have been happily married over 35 yrs. If by chance I had made poor choices and dated a guy with lessor values I would have gone right to PP and gotten an abortion. I certainly wouldn't want that kind of man to be the father to my kids.

This is about more than saving face. It's about making sure that your kids know to value things like sex, marriage, and bringing children into this world. It's nothing to be taken lightly and there are consequences for making bad decisions. Based on the way we all have turned out I'd say our methods works way better than larger black society. An entire generation of college grads, not a criminal in the bunch and no baby momma's or daddy's, not even a shot gun wedding. The pressure to live up to familiar standards is something lacking in far to many African American homes. It will not be lacking in mine.

 

[Kurlee]

He married her for the benefits probably since they never moved to the same town. Not a great example for this thread.

i think it is a good example just because it supports the notion can't FIX a relationship, just because of a child. It's one thing to get married and quite another to STAY married and be happy and fulfilled.

 

[JayAnn0513]

i think it is a good example just because it supports the notion can't FIX a relationship, just because of a child. It's one thing to get married and quite another to STAY married and be happy and fulfilled.

Yeah but there was no relationship in this case. They were just sleeping together occasionally; which is why it boggles my mind that someone would want to have a baby come out of that.

 

[aribell]

So with that being said, how many women are out there getting proposed to by their baby fathers (who are active fathers that love their children) in this day and age? Men are not getting married just for the baby and there are stats to prove that.

Damn we need a spinoff...

That's what this is for:


http://cdn2.holytaco.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/38691593_bbc_shotgun2_300.jpg

I think people now are like, "It's not that serious." But maybe it really is just that serious.

I wonder if the underlying question here is what role the girl/woman's father is playing in this. Traditionally it was really the father pushing the guy to marry his daughter, or perhaps the man's own father. If 72% of African American children are born to fatherless homes, how many of those OOW mothers didn't have a father there?

How to say this...maybe women have accepted men not stepping up to the plate because in large part the fathers aren't there telling them that they should expect this man to step up to the plate. The young man in question isn't held accountable to anyone.

I've seen men who for all intents and purposes would be considered "no good," and yet they could still tell women family members what to look out for and whether a man was or wasn't doing right by them. I think a lot of men know exactly what is called for in situations like these, but they're just allowed to get away with not doing it.

 

[Kurlee]

Why @Kurlee?

I take marriage very seriously and I think it requires deep thought, preparation, maturity and contemplation. I don't believe that lying down in a night of passion lol is a good enough reason to marry someone. You can be attracted to someone or in a relationship and be sexually involved, but unfortunately in this day and age, not everyone you lay down with, will be your husband and not all of those encounters will last beyond the next few birthdays.

Relationships go through phases and sometimes a relationship is just NOT at a place where it is ready for marriage. It takes time to see that and know that. Sometimes it needs more time, more seasoning, more "marinating" and sometimes after that, you see things that make you say "naw son, I'm good".

I am in my 20's and I have seen far too many of my peers (20's - mid/late 30's) jump in head first into marriage via shotgun or because it's the "right" thing to do or it's "time" and about 80% of them are unhappy, wish they waited or are divorced; with and without children. I just don't understand this spazziness about marriage. It is awesome, but I just don't dig the thirsty, marry at all costs or your "stupid" or "quain" mess.

Some people will marry and some won't and that's ok. Some people are in dysfunctional relationships and some are really happy. Some are awesome parents and some stink. Changing your name to Mrs. doesn't always superiorize your life.

I had the luxury of growing up with men and women who were about ten years my senior. As soon as I entered a phase, they were exiting it. I was able to see so many relationships begin and end, marriages begin and fail, families succeeding and being broken, and children being born in raised in various situations (in and out of wedlock) and see those kids grow and develop up to teenagers. After experiencing all of that, I have decided to take my time with marriage and really know myself and establish myself and be WHOLE as an individual, instead of seeking some type of completion of "come up" on someone else and to attach the "married" label as a badge of honour on my chest. I really believe a partner should COMPLIMENT your life; NOT be your saving grace or basis for your identity.

Marriage is an economically and financially sound decision. However, it also needs to be an emotionally and psychologically sound decision as well, that is not based on other people's judgments and social hierarchies.

 

[Kurlee]

I've already pointed out that I grew up in a religious family (both sides) and was extremely sheltered as a child/teen, naturally the friends I had to choose from were of the same suit. My parents did a good job protecting me from things and people and, subsequently, values they considered harmful. As a result, no I don't know a lot of people with OOW children and shotgun marriages are protocol for most of the people I know that are unmarried & pregnant.That said, I understand it's not the norm for the average AA, but it is the norm for me and will instil these same values in my children and family.

I think it's perfectly fine that this was your experience and it's interesting to hear it, but at the same time, I think we should all be aware that our realities are not the realities of everyone else and sometimes, our own upbringing can sometimes block us from seeing and understanding the lives of others. Even if we don't agree I think it's good to understand people from different walks of life, without being insulting. We do not live in vacuum and we will be forced to deal with, work with, etc. people who don't make the same choices than us.

 

[Kurlee]

Yeah but there was no relationship in this case. They were just sleeping together occasionally; which is why it boggles my mind that someone would want to have a baby come out of that.

maybe they feel guilt about abortion. Some people can't abort all willy-nilly and again, we need to respect those differences. Maybe for THEM having the child is what they can handle psychologically since the fetus is already growing and shoulda, coulda, woulda, won't help.

I just don't think someone is stupid or lower echelon cuz they would rather risk being a single parent than abort a baby because of some risky sex, that wasn't worth it in the first place.

 

[Klearli]

Its crazy how people in here are like...oh, if I goof up in creating a life...oh well. Abortion. Like its that easy.

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using T-Mobile G2

 

[FemmeFatale]

I wanted to stay focused on love, marriage and values. I'm still trying to understand how a child isn't worth getting married for but some butterflies and good d*ck is..

 

[Kurlee]

I wanted to stay focused on love, marriage and values. I'm still trying to understand how a child isn't worth getting married for but some butterflies and good d*ck is..

i think this is a different argument and a different scenario. It's not black and white and not one or the other.

 

[TayMac]

None of the situations are one size fits all.

What's the options (other than avoiding the situation and abortion) once you are pregnant and deciding to have a child?

I guess I don't see the benefit in trying to do it alone (been there done that) if the other party is ready and willing to get married/build a future AND they aren't a total loser or butthole.

Sure you can wait until the dust settles but once baby is on the way focuses and priorities change and you don't have the same luxuries as before. Well..the consequences and stakes are higher I should say.

Sent from my Ally using Ally

 

[FemmeFatale]

i think this is a different argument and a different scenario. It's not black and white and not one or the other.

That's what I initially wanted to discuss because a lot of the times I hear "oh he's only marrying her cause she's pregnant not because he loves her" and I think it's asinine considering the fact that men show their love through their actions and providing/maintaining a family (child AND mother) is one of the biggest ways they prove their love.

 

[Charz]

This is about more than saving face. It's about making sure that your kids know to value things like sex, marriage, and bringing children into this world. It's nothing to be taken lightly and there are consequences for making bad decisions. Based on the way we all have turned out I'd say our methods works way better than larger black society. An entire generation of college grads, not a criminal in the bunch and no baby momma's or daddy's, not even a shot gun wedding. The pressure to live up to familiar standards is something lacking in far to many African American homes. It will not be lacking in mine.

and people wonder about the diconnect with C/As.

People can whine and mke snide comments all they want about your so called "buble"..you were raised with and continue to abide by high standards for yourself and your family. Something the black community should GO BACK TO.

 

[FemmeFatale]

This song just popped into my head as I wrote my last post: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRPmJ6eSUH0

 

[Charz]

Its crazy how people in here are like...oh, if I goof up in creating a life...oh well. Abortion. Like its that easy.

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using T-Mobile G2

Not everyone views it the way others do. Thankfully.

If you were fine with your situation in the beginning you wouldnt have mentioned on here how upset you were that the Plan B didnt work for you.

It is what it is.

 

[MsSanz92]

There is no issue with a shotgun wedding IMO and I would do it in a heartbeat. I can't stand when people use this "things happens" excuse for pregnancy. Pregnancy is one of the most easiest consequences of sex to avoid. People just act like pregnancy has no science behind it and it just magically appears NO!! There is a reason why we have fertility charts, birth control, ovulation calculators, fertility drugs and clinics because pregnancy can be controlled to some degree!

l I don't understand why people don't want better for themselves; having a child out of wedlock is a step back in MOST cases. Not to say everyone born out of wedlock is destined for failure, but in general children born out of wedlock miss out on the experience of being raised in a household where their parents have made a legal, emotional, and spiritual bind to their children and to each other.

Back to the pregnancy thing, I don't simply see myself putting myself in a situation where I could get pregnant by someone I don't see myself being married to. I just think people need to set higher standards for themselves especially in their romantic endeavors; it is probably one of the only things in life we have major control over. If I was to become pregnant before being married, I would set an ultimatum. Either you marry me if you want to or if not, take me to Planned Parenthood ASAP

ETA: The legal nature of marriage makes it so significant to a family. It is much easier for someone to walk out on someone who they have no legal binding to. I'm not saying that married men don't go AWOL on their families but most people who say that they were raised by single mothers their fathers left then most likely because they were never married to their mothers in the first place. Having a child with someone and not marrying or intending to marry them is just irresponsible and selfish IMO.

 

[Honey Bee]

and people wonder about the diconnect with C/As.

Charz, What are "C/A's"?

 

[moda]

I take marriage very seriously and I think it requires deep thought, preparation, maturity and contemplation. I don't believe that lying down in a night of passion lol is a good enough reason to marry someone. You can be attracted to someone or in a relationship and be sexually involved, but unfortunately in this day and age, not everyone you lay down with, will be your husband and not all of those encounters will last beyond the next few birthdays.

Relationships go through phases and sometimes a relationship is just NOT at a place where it is ready for marriage. It takes time to see that and know that. Sometimes it needs more time, more seasoning, more "marinating" and sometimes after that, you see things that make you say "naw son, I'm good".

I am in my 20's and I have seen far too many of my peers (20's - mid/late 30's) jump in head first into marriage via shotgun or because it's the "right" thing to do or it's "time" and about 80% of them are unhappy, wish they waited or are divorced; with and without children. I just don't understand this spazziness about marriage. It is awesome, but I just don't dig the thirsty, marry at all costs or your "stupid" or "quain" mess.

Some people will marry and some won't and that's ok. Some people are in dysfunctional relationships and some are really happy. Some are awesome parents and some stink. Changing your name to Mrs. doesn't always superiorize your life.

I had the luxury of growing up with men and women who were about ten years my senior. As soon as I entered a phase, they were exiting it. I was able to see so many relationships begin and end, marriages begin and fail, families succeeding and being broken, and children being born in raised in various situations (in and out of wedlock) and see those kids grow and develop up to teenagers. After experiencing all of that, I have decided to take my time with marriage and really know myself and establish myself and be WHOLE as an individual, instead of seeking some type of completion of "come up" on someone else and to attach the "married" label as a badge of honour on my chest. I really believe a partner should COMPLIMENT your life; NOT be your saving grace or basis for your identity.

Marriage is an economically and financially sound decision. However, it also needs to be an emotionally and psychologically sound decision as well, that is not based on other people's judgments and social hierarchies.

I certainly agree with everything you have written. I just wish the BC could replace marriage in your post with children. I am sick and tired of hearing people having kids with dude around the corner and telling me how they are not ready for marriage. Raising children is 100X more difficult than marriage IMO. Yes I am dealing with a man who has his own beliefs and we may butt heads on a few things but it is in no way more difficult than raising a child. Not only as a single parent are you 100% responsible for the child you have to wear many hats as well like counselor, teacher, doctor, role model and the entire breadth of responsibilities that we as parents take on outside of just becoming a mother. Children need both parents in their lives regardless of whether the parents marry or not, but we all know that many of the dudes that get women pregnant aren’t staying around long enough to even sign the birth certificate. Why place that hardship on yourself and your children when you don't have to. If I cannot even discuss the possibilities of what would happen if I were to become pregnant with the man I am sexing then maybe I shouldn't be sexing the man in the first place, especially not unprotected.

 

[Klearli]

Not everyone views it the way others do. Thankfully.

If you were fine with your situation in the beginning you wouldnt have mentioned on here how upset you were that the Plan B didnt work for you.

It is what it is.

Plan B isn't abortion. I don't want to derail the thread...so if that's your opinion that it is, that's cool. Don't debate it here.

A married woman can be upset she's pregnant too, if she has other plans that a baby doesn't fit in. I had things to do that this baby puts on hold. But its just a temporary hold.

I couldn't have picked a better father for my child. I just didn't plan on him being the daddy so soon. And because I am pro choice, I knew my options.

And when plan B didn't work for me, I couldn't throw away the little heartbeat and little 9 week waving arms (I fell in love with fingerless hands!) that I saw on the moniter inside of me, despite the fact that I was...deeply ashamed (to say the least) that I was pregnant OOW. I believe things happen for a reason, even if I couldn't see if back then.
Its funny that even though I am a grown woman who supports herself, and have a responsible man of character who loves me who will support the family he helped to create, even if that means he could go without... I still felt ashamed because women in my family just don't do that. We get husbands first.

And speaking of ashamed, I am now deeply ashamed that I even...had a thought about doing ANYTHING with MY child, the blessing, my precious son, growing inside me. I thank God for being merciful, and not letting me do anything stupid or rash to 'save face'. The people who whisper about me will have their reward.

Lol, I also thank God for a deacon daddy with a shot gun...who lowered it because I asked him to, and my happiness means more to him than anything else.

*Anyway* So my whole point was that having an abortion is not easy as pie the way some of the other posters put it, hence my post. Your comment seemed insensitive and irrelevant to my post about the seeming ease of abortions.

ETA~ whether or not I marry DF is my choice. I don't want to be tethered to a man who doesn't want to be with me, but does it simply out of a sense of duty.

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using T-Mobile G2

 

[Charz]

Girl you wrote a sermon that means absolutely nothing to me. As for "insensitive", did I make it up from thin air? Didnt you say that? mentioning he was merely supposed to be a one night stand after years of celibacy? In other words you werent ready. you didnt expect it. If Plan B had worked, that would have been the end of that. You made your choice to keep it. Good for you. My point is you are not better than those who go decides to pick a different option. People should be able to pick whatever choice they want without a competition of who's the "better human"

I dont remember saying it was ever an easy choice, neither is deciding to keep it. Some people said they would personally go the other route and you have people trying to mak ethem feel bad for even thinking of such. That's what I had a problem with. Simple as that.

Have a good one.

 

[Klearli]

Girl you wrote a sermon that means absolutely nothing to me. As for "insensitive", did I make it up from thin air? Didnt you say that? mentioning he was merely supposed to be a one night stand after years of celibacy? In other words you werent ready. you didnt expect it. If Plan B had worked, that would have been the end of that. You made your choice to keep it. Good for you. My point is you are not better than those who go decides to pick a different option. People should be able to pick whatever choice they want without a competition of who's the "better human"

I dont remember saying it was ever an easy choice, neither is deciding to keep it. Some people said they would personally go the other route and you have people trying to mak ethem feel bad for even thinking of such. That's what I had a problem with. Simple as that.

Have a good one.

No, I said nothing like that. You must have me mixed up with another poster. Check your sources before you go hard. Because now you not only sound insensitive (since you apparently did make it up from thin air), you sound...dare I say...stupid? One night stands??? Celibacy?? Like...you seriously just made up some random stuff. Da hell?

The only thing I ever mentioned about Plan B was that I took it, it didn't work, so don't count on it working. That was in a thread about people who are so sure about their birth control.
And I STILL don't understand how people can take ABORTION so will nilly. Plan B is emergency contraception. Regular contraception is bc pills, IUD, condoms, whatever. People who have sex and don't want to get pregnant use contraception. People who become pregnant and don't want a baby have an abortion. There is a difference.

I am not saying I'm a better person than people who see abortion as a simple "fix". I'm saying I don't comprehend the logic.

Girl you are reaching so far I don't even know where to go with this.

Who spit in your cereal this morning?

ETA~I hope you either are a virgin or lost your virginity to your husband. And if you did have an abortion to keep from being an OOW mother (maybe that's your problem), that's between you and Jesus.

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using T-Mobile G2

 

[Aviah]

Only if both parties would have gotten married anyway. You really can't build a marriage on a baby, but if it was a healthy loving relationship that was headed that way anyway so be it. But both parties better be prepared for the stresses that come with two different life changing events happening all at once.

Sent from my GT-I5700 using GT-I5700

 

[Klearli]

And another thing, I do not judge women who choose abortion. It is their right as a woman, IMO.

I just don't think it should be an EASY decision. And the way some people have posted, they act like it is a no brainer. Like, hmm, pregnant and no husband? Welp, let me run down to the clinic right quick. Maybe ill get chipotle afterwards.

I feel people should think of an abortion as one of the most important decisions ever made in life, just like deciding to have a kid is one of the most important decisions.

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using T-Mobile G2