Are You Against Shotgun Weddings?

Are you Against shotgun Weddings (in the right circumstances)?

  • Yes

    Votes: 24 28.2%
  • No

    Votes: 61 71.8%

  • Total voters
    85
  • Poll closed .
I am all for shot gun weddings! BANG BANG! It's better than the whole baby mama baby daddy thing chasing down for child support thing and cohabiting. People shouldn't sleeping with people they can't see themselves marrying.

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I certainly agree with everything you have written. I just wish the BC could replace marriage in your post with children. I am sick and tired of hearing people having kids with dude around the corner and telling me how they are not ready for marriage. Raising children is 100X more difficult than marriage IMO. Yes I am dealing with a man who has his own beliefs and we may butt heads on a few things but it is in no way more difficult than raising a child. Not only as a single parent are you 100% responsible for the child you have to wear many hats as well like counselor, teacher, doctor, role model and the entire breadth of responsibilities that we as parents take on outside of just becoming a mother. Children need both parents in their lives regardless of whether the parents marry or not, but we all know that many of the dudes that get women pregnant aren’t staying around long enough to even sign the birth certificate. Why place that hardship on yourself and your children when you don't have to. If I cannot even discuss the possibilities of what would happen if I were to become pregnant with the man I am sexing then maybe I shouldn't be sexing the man in the first place, especially not unprotected.
in theory, all of this is excellent, but in practice and in LTR's it doesn't always pan out like that. It seems like these discussions always go the same way. Everyone talks about what should have happened and not what decisions can be made in the present tense. As far as I see it's abortion or marriage or only sexing guys u will marry. I understand but I just can't think so narrowly, especially when people have sex with each other after only a few months or weeks of knowing each other now a days.
 
Absolutely not.
Getting married is less of a commitment than a baby, you can leave the man if it doesn't work out. I am all for trying to making it work.


agree completely - i see a lot of young men who want a baby mother but refuse to get married. that child is a big responsability ( they soon find out when the child is born) lol

i think if they want to make a go of it more credit to them
 
Question:

So going along with this 'line' per se, we should not judge those chicks who have 5-6 kids while unmarried, because although the situation is bad, the fact that she brought life into this world was a pretty decent decision in and of itself?

(OK that was really verbose and compact, I hope it was understandable).

Well, I don't believe in extremes like that. But I come from a small family - just me and my brother. My mom told me from the time that I was 9 that she loved me but that her choices made her life harder than it should be. She told me to make different choices and I really took what she said to heart.

But she took joy on us and I grew up in a very loving environment. But she didnt keep repeating her mistakes. Sometimes you might make a wrong choice, but you have the option to correct your behavior - which she did.

People that have no resources but have tons of kids are a different story. More needs to be taught there than proper condom use. That's a mentality - but nit every woman who finds herself pregnant and single has that kind of mentality.

Sometimes you have good sense and you've made a misstep. I just think abortion is not the only answer in a case like that. I've never thought ' I miss my daddy....I wish I was never born...I hate life.'. Lol

I've had a good life and I'm glad my mom kept us but learned from her situation.
 
I'm late as usual. But yeah if the scenario is as described I don't see why not - they're having a kid anyway and there's been a relationship.
 
in theory, all of this is excellent, but in practice and in LTR's it doesn't always pan out like that. It seems like these discussions always go the same way. Everyone talks about what should have happened and not what decisions can be made in the present tense. As far as I see it's abortion or marriage or only sexing guys u will marry. I understand but I just can't think so narrowly, especially when people have sex with each other after only a few months or weeks of knowing each other now a days.


I don't get why using birth control is such a hardship there are sooo many different ones you don't even need to think about for months or years if one is not ready for a child just some fun.
 
I don't get why using birth control is such a hardship there are sooo many different ones you don't even need to think about for months or years if one is not ready for a child just some fun.

Because WOMEN (didn't say a race) use babies to trap men and the whole bc thing is a big ole excuse that I only believe if the woman was raped. Everybody else gets the side eye. You know when you get your period every month so do the math. I was going to start a thread on contraception because I am tired of the excuses that get thrown around. You wanted to get pregnant so when the guy said just once EVERY.SINGLE.TIME you were ok with so please don't tell me you took the pill correctly because you didn't. Please don't tell me the condom didn't work because if you didn't want to get pregnant for a random dude you would have used a back up. So tired......

Sorry for the long rant. (I can see this because I have flucked around before getting married and I never got pregnant and neither did any of my friends who wanted to be married before having a child.) It's funny how your desire for a two parent home is ample birth control.
 
I don't get why using birth control is such a hardship there are sooo many different ones you don't even need to think about for months or years if one is not ready for a child just some fun.

I wanted to quote that exact same section. It reminds me of my 4yr olds favorite saying " you get, what you get and you don't throw a fit!"

If you refuse to be responsible for fertility then don't complain about the state of the black community, youth, or public health. None of that will improve if folks keep doing what they have been doing the last 25-30 yrs.
 
I wanted to quote that exact same section. It reminds me of my 4yr olds favorite saying " you get, what you get and you don't throw a fit!"

If you refuse to be responsible for fertility then don't complain about the state of the black community, youth, or public health. None of that will improve if folks keep doing what they have been doing the last 25-30 yrs.

Basically. We can talk about unity and self-esteem and economic empowerment all day long but if we can't even get the basics right there is no point. Like trying to build a skyscraper on a styrofoam foundation.:nono:
 
I'm not a fan of shotgun weddings. I wouldn't force one on my kids. At this point, if I got pregnant, I probably wouldn't marry dude, but a couple of years from now, I probably would.

I don't think a pregnancy is a reason to force a marriage. If you're selective about the guys you sleep with, ideally you wouldn't be sleeping with a dude that would walk away from a child that wasn't his anyway.... but we all know people don't always think that far ahead when they choose their partners. Our freedom to NOT exercise responsibility in that area is a luxury that our foremothers didn't have. A blessing and a curse IMO.

I hate when people make blanket statements about anything. Honestly, it really doesn't do anything but expose your own ignorance. I think a lot of people must have grown up really sheltered. Which is fine. I grew up sheltered, but being in medicine and especially dealing with the patient population that I was around, you just learn that nothing is black and white.

Absolutely nothing. 85% of the time, it goes a lot deeper than you would ever think.
 
I don't get why using birth control is such a hardship there are sooo many different ones you don't even need to think about for months or years if one is not ready for a child just some fun.
i think ur missing the point of what i'm trying to say. I will just stop repeating myself cuz it seems that we're going around in circles and we always come back to the same dry ole narrow minded rhetoric.
 
Life isn't black and white but it is important to have some solid fundamentals that you stand for otherwise you'll fall for anything and continuosly find yourself in some bs. Wishy washy people that live in the gray area never want to be held accountable for anything and excuses are what they live by (an observation of mine).

Oh and some of us has LIVED, a zero tolerance for certain things doesn't mean that they are ignorant and/or were sheltered.
 
Life isn't black and white but it is important to have some solid fundamentals that you stand for otherwise you'll fall for anything and continuosly find yourself in some bs. Wishy washy people that live in the gray area never want to be held accountable for anything and excuses are what they live by (an observation of mine).

Oh and some of us has LIVED, a zero tolerance for certain things doesn't mean that they are ignorant and/or were sheltered.

I'm guessing you're addressing this to me?

You may have misunderstood me. My post was about the futility behind judging others and applying the same principles and standards you maintain in your life to someone else's.

Your observation on wishy washy people and gray areas is interesting. An observation of mine is that being able to appreciate nuances as well as the ability to appropriately recognize and navigate gray areas are somewhat advanced skills, people generally don't develop those until they're matured a bit or stepped outside of their comfort zone. You may have seen differently, and that's fine.

Either way, I'm glad you found an ethic and moral code to live by that works for you, that's excellent. :yep:
 
Life isn't black and white but it is important to have some solid fundamentals that you stand for otherwise you'll fall for anything and continuosly find yourself in some bs. Wishy washy people that live in the gray area never want to be held accountable for anything and excuses are what they live by (an observation of mine).

Oh and some of us has LIVED, a zero tolerance for certain things doesn't mean that they are ignorant and/or were sheltered.

This bears repeating. I don't appreciate how, every time this topic comes up, the pro-marriage posters are dismissed with so-called 'real world' scenarios. It's a cheap argument. You can't be all pro-black community while also condoning and co-signing OOW births.

Historically, the strength of our families served as the bulwark to the ever-present mental pressures of white racism in this country. Of course, everybody wasn't married at all times, but it seems there was a critical mass (as is evidenced by increased male participation in typical 'family functions', ie, church). As we've seen over the last 50 years, the dissolution of our families leaves us very vulnerable (politically, economically, etc). So, which is it gonna be? You can't have both.
 
I'm against them if one of the two don't want to be married. Being a single parent is better then marrying and putting your child thru a divorce.

If both people feel it's time and the baby jumpstarts that I don't see a problem.

Absolutely all for shotgun weddings.

It's amazing to me that someone can willingly attach themselves to someone permanently and dedicate an innocent being to them but can't personally see themselves dedicated that very person. Why would you have a baby--thus select you child's parent-- with someone you personally wouldn't be with??? Makes no sense for me.....

If both parties WANT to get married then I don't see the problem. But I think it's foolish to marry with the idea that the baby will hold an ailing relationship together...

I disagree with this.

Even if those things aren't going on, if there's animosity/hostility between the parents, the kids will pick up on this and be affected by it. I'm speaking from experience.

If I get married, I will try my best to make it work, as long as those things you mentioned aren't factors. But if it's not working, I'm not doing that "staying together for the sake of the kids" stuff, sorry.

My exact opinion, saved me some time from writing:grin:



Folk are acting on the assumption that a good majority of women would not jump at the chance to get married and "do it right" if it was an option on the table for them. I don't believe that for a second.

Nope, i wouldnt do it. Unless that is a person that i actually wanted to marry. But at the same time i would not be having unprotected sex with someone i could not see myself marrying.
Now there are "miracles" or "accidents" where some have gotten pregnant while using protection and if that happened to me i still would not marry that person. I would just hope he would be a good co-parenter(is that a word?:lol:).
 
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Life isn't black and white but it is important to have some solid fundamentals that you stand for otherwise you'll fall for anything and continuosly find yourself in some bs. Wishy washy people that live in the gray area never want to be held accountable for anything and excuses are what they live by (an observation of mine).

Oh and some of us has LIVED, a zero tolerance for certain things doesn't mean that they are ignorant and/or were sheltered.

Ok, sheltered I was not. I'll take you to the street I grew up on and you can decide for yourself. I was raised my a divorced mother who did her best to raise us with the same middle class values her parents raised her with. She always said " we may live in the hood, but you are not OF the hood". I knew I was expected to live my life based on higher standards than my neighbors. When I look on FB I'm so glad she raised me that way and got us the heck out of there because the girls I used to be cool with? Let's just say they are walking statistics.
 
This bears repeating. I don't appreciate how, every time this topic comes up, the pro-marriage posters are dismissed with so-called 'real world' scenarios. It's a cheap argument. You can't be all pro-black community while also condoning and co-signing OOW births.

Historically, the strength of our families served as the bulwark to the ever-present mental pressures of white racism in this country. Of course, everybody wasn't married at all times, but it seems there was a critical mass (as is evidenced by increased male participation in typical 'family functions', ie, church). As we've seen over the last 50 years, the dissolution of our families leaves us very vulnerable (politically, economically, etc). So, which is it gonna be? You can't have both.


Wow! Great post.
 
This bears repeating. I don't appreciate how, every time this topic comes up, the pro-marriage posters are dismissed with so-called 'real world' scenarios. It's a cheap argument. You can't be all pro-black community while also condoning and co-signing OOW births.

Historically, the strength of our families served as the bulwark to the ever-present mental pressures of white racism in this country. Of course, everybody wasn't married at all times, but it seems there was a critical mass (as is evidenced by increased male participation in typical 'family functions', ie, church). As we've seen over the last 50 years, the dissolution of our families leaves us very vulnerable (politically, economically, etc). So, which is it gonna be? You can't have both.


Right and this is where my vent comes in because usually what happens is the trickle down effect. A woman has decided for whatever reason to have her child but not get married and later on influence her children (son or daughter, consciously or unconsciously) to go the same route. I have seen this happen TIME AFTER TIME. The breakdown of the black family and marriage.

I know of an entire generation of women that live together in one house in the hood: grandmother, mother, daughter and now 2 grand daughters..the mother and grandmother destroyed the relationship of the daughter (I know the guy) and has completely shunned the guy who wanted to do right by the woman and his daughter. I feel bad because he is a great guy and great father but sadly his 11 yr old daughter is being raised in that anti father/husband/men hell hole :sad:

This is the everyday story in the hood and throughout the black community. And we're called the sheltered ones who lack compassion because we're sick of this ish.
 
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This bears repeating. I don't appreciate how, every time this topic comes up, the pro-marriage posters are dismissed with so-called 'real world' scenarios. It's a cheap argument. You can't be all pro-black community while also condoning and co-signing OOW births.

Historically, the strength of our families served as the bulwark to the ever-present mental pressures of white racism in this country. Of course, everybody wasn't married at all times, but it seems there was a critical mass (as is evidenced by increased male participation in typical 'family functions', ie, church). As we've seen over the last 50 years, the dissolution of our families leaves us very vulnerable (politically, economically, etc). So, which is it gonna be? You can't have both.

LOL black people have always been vulnerable one way or the other. Anyway, no one is denying the importance of marriage, its just not the only issue, or even the most important IMO. People are touting shotgun marriages as though its THE solution like "THIS IS WHAT THE BLACK COMMUNITY NEEDS!" and all I'm saying is that that doesn't even begin to touch the tip of the iceberg as far as black people are concerned.

And as far as bringing up real world scenarios, my bad. Do you guys prefer to see how your ideas stand up to hypothetical scenarios instead? Maybe they would hold more merit.
 
And as far as bringing up real world scenarios, my bad. Do you guys prefer to see how your ideas stand up to hypothetical scenarios instead? Maybe they would hold more merit.

I think the point is that people aren't simply taking this stance because they've never seen a "real world scenario" play out. The idea that principled values are the product of a sheltered life is mistaken. Shotgun wedding may not be a panacea for the black community, but it does seem like there's always resistance to the idea that there might be a right thing to do in a situation.


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I think the point is that people aren't simply taking this stance because they've never seen a "real world scenario" play out. The idea that principled values are the product of a sheltered life is mistaken. Shotgun wedding may not be a panacea for the black community, but it does seem like there's always resistance to the idea that there might be a right thing to do in a situation.


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And I can counter that by saying that there was resistance when I put forth the idea that a shotgun marriage might not be the right thing to do in a situation. It goes both ways, does it not?

I didn't say just having principles were a result of growing up privileged. I think you can grow up underprivileged and have principles. But certain principles are a result of certain upbringings, and can't be universally applied. But I think privileged people sometimes live under the assumption that things worked out for them b/c they did things the right way, and that's not necessarily true. Most of the time, things worked out for you because you were privileged. I've noticed a lot of people are very resistant to this idea because they feel like it casts doubt on the merit of their accomplishments. And it does to a certain extent.

Like I can talk to a white male and he can say, I'm where I am because of how hard I worked. And he can look at me, a black female and say that the reason why I am not where he is is because I didn't work as hard as he did. But that's just not true. But a lot of white people feel that way. And they're mistaken.

I'm really not trying to throw shade at anyone's upbringing. I'm a PK. I grew up a certain way, privileged in many ways, so its not like I'm throwing shade at anyone. I grew up a lot when I started really learning how to practice medicine in some areas, and it challenged the way I looked at things, made me reconsider a lot of things.
 
This bears repeating. I don't appreciate how, every time this topic comes up, the pro-marriage posters are dismissed with so-called 'real world' scenarios. It's a cheap argument. You can't be all pro-black community while also condoning and co-signing OOW births.

Historically, the strength of our families served as the bulwark to the ever-present mental pressures of white racism in this country. .

Completely agree. :yep:
 
I wonder if those men plan to leave their wives once the kids are older. I've heard men, who did the right thing and married the pregnant girlfriend, say they will divorce when the kids turn 18.
This is what happened with my uncle and his first wife. She laid down, got pregnant, and her hood behind confessed to my grandmother that she did it because "my mother said to get pregnant by him because he comes from a good family". My mother, a 10 year old, overheard her. He married her, forgoing his dreams of college and higher aspirations until much, much later. However I can't blame her too much because they went on to have 5 more kids.

In the end, he DID divorce her after the first couple of kids hit 18. The woman, she never worked a day in her life. Now her big time music producer son takes care of her.
 
And I can counter that by saying that there was resistance when I put forth the idea that a shotgun marriage might not be the right thing to do in a situation. It goes both ways, does it not?

I didn't say just having principles were a result of growing up privileged. I think you can grow up underprivileged and have principles. But certain principles are a result of certain upbringings, and can't be universally applied. But I think privileged people sometimes live under the assumption that things worked out for them b/c they did things the right way, and that's not necessarily true. Most of the time, things worked out for you because you were privileged. I've noticed a lot of people are very resistant to this idea because they feel like it casts doubt on the merit of their accomplishments. And it does to a certain extent.

The question of shotgun weddings was asked in its most general sense. I don't think anyone said or is saying that in any and all circumstances getting married is better than the alternative. Yes, in a particular situation the wedding might not be best. But a particular set of *special* facts has to be considered separately from the general principle.

With respect to privilege, the question of whether making it is harder or easier for some people doesn't change what is required to make it. If there's a woman who has to take care of her sick mother, had an alcoholic father, grew up destitue, has to work full time while finishing community college, etc, she has it way harder than the kid from the suburbs who has his parents paying for him to party at the frat house every friday. But the thing is that the relative difficulty of either situation doesn't change what is required for both to succeed: pass your classes and get the degree.

Working "hard enough" or "harder" isn't what is necessary, it's doing whatever is necessary to meet the standard.

It's similar with building a strong community. The principles are the same. We need strong and stable families. Marriage is the principle component of that, and the way that's done in the inner city is the same way it's done in the suburbs. Yes, some people have certain principles because of their upbringings, but that's likely because living by those principles was part and parcel of what shaped that family. And while you may not have said it, bringing up privilege here seems (to me) to be the same logic that leads people to say that marriage is for white people. Even if there's an oow pregnancy where the parents shouldn't wed, I don't see what that has to do with one's socioeconomic class. Like, "She's from the projects, so it's unreasonable to expect her to get married." What would that have to do with anything?
 
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The question of shotgun weddings was asked in its most general sense. I don't think anyone said or is saying that in any and all circumstances getting married is better than the alternative. Yes, in a particular situation the wedding might not be best. But a particular set of *special* facts has to be considered separately from the general principle.

With respect to privilege, the question of whether making it is harder or easier for some people doesn't change what is required to make it. If there's a woman who has to take care of her sick mother, had an alcoholic father, grew up destitue, has to work full time while finishing community college, etc, she has it way harder than the kid from the suburbs who has his parents paying for him to party at the frat house every friday. But the thing is that the relative difficulty of either situation doesn't change what is required for both to succeed: pass your classes and get the degree.

Working "hard enough" or "harder" isn't what is necessary, it's doing whatever is necessary to meet the standard.

It's similar with building a strong community. The principles are the same. We need strong and stable families. Marriage is the principle component of that, and the way that's done in the inner city is the same way it's done in the suburbs. Yes, some people have certain principles because of their upbringings, but that's likely because living by those principles was part and parcel of what shaped that family. And while you may not have said it, bringing up privilege here seems (to me) to be the same logic that leads people to say that marriage is for white people. Even if there's an oow pregnancy where the parents shouldn't wed, I don't see what that has to do with one's socioeconomic class. Like, "She's from the projects, so it's unreasonable to expect her to get married." What would that have to do with anything?

So bringing it back to the context of this thread, are you saying that shotgun marriages lead to strong and stable families? Personally, I don't. I think it takes a lot more the mutual kid to have stable household.

And I don't think acknowledging privilege in this case, means that I think marriage is for white people or not for people in the projects. I don't agree with whatever form of logic you used to make that assumption. However, people on forum talk all the time about how marriage is more of a social and economic institution than anything else, and I agree with that. It would be silly to not consider the socioeconomic conditions of a person and how marriage fits into that (if it even does at that point in their life), if you're touting it as the solution to their problem.
 
I'm guessing you're addressing this to me?

You may have misunderstood me. My post was about the futility behind judging others and applying the same principles and standards you maintain in your life to someone else's.

Your observation on wishy washy people and gray areas is interesting. An observation of mine is that being able to appreciate nuances as well as the ability to appropriately recognize and navigate gray areas are somewhat advanced skills, people generally don't develop those until they're matured a bit or stepped outside of their comfort zone. You may have seen differently, and that's fine.

Either way, I'm glad you found an ethic and moral code to live by that works for you, that's excellent. :yep:
:yep::yep::yep:
 
And I can counter that by saying that there was resistance when I put forth the idea that a shotgun marriage might not be the right thing to do in a situation. It goes both ways, does it not?

I didn't say just having principles were a result of growing up privileged. I think you can grow up underprivileged and have principles. But certain principles are a result of certain upbringings, and can't be universally applied. But I think privileged people sometimes live under the assumption that things worked out for them b/c they did things the right way, and that's not necessarily true. Most of the time, things worked out for you because you were privileged. I've noticed a lot of people are very resistant to this idea because they feel like it casts doubt on the merit of their accomplishments. And it does to a certain extent.

Like I can talk to a white male and he can say, I'm where I am because of how hard I worked. And he can look at me, a black female and say that the reason why I am not where he is is because I didn't work as hard as he did. But that's just not true. But a lot of white people feel that way. And they're mistaken.

I'm really not trying to throw shade at anyone's upbringing. I'm a PK. I grew up a certain way, privileged in many ways, so its not like I'm throwing shade at anyone. I grew up a lot when I started really learning how to practice medicine in some areas, and it challenged the way I looked at things, made me reconsider a lot of things.
excellent point
 
So bringing it back to the context of this thread, are you saying that shotgun marriages lead to strong and stable families? Personally, I don't. I think it takes a lot more the mutual kid to have stable household.

Again, I don't think anyone said all you needed was a marriage certificate to live happily ever after. I think it goes without saying that that in iteself, just like with any other marriage, would not be enough to guarantee success.
 
While marriage isn't the answer to all of the ills within the black community I will say that one of the biggest issues is that our men don't respect women and vice versa..and I think that a lot of that stems from the not seeing it at home, the roles have been diminished to wknd visits from the man if that and the woman bearing 90% of the responsibility which isn't fair to the child and mother. Overall I don't think we demand what we deserve and in turn the man sees no issue in making the black woman his baby mother, as opposed to wife.
This issue trickles down into other issues and it is a viscious cycle.
 
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