Update: He Stroked Her Hand.

keyawarren said:
**unpopular opinion alert**

Op, if you like this guy, but have become less interested, then I say keep him around while you date others. There's 2 reasons I suggest this:

1) if you know its not gonna go anywhere use him for kicks...if and only if the "kicks" are worth it to you. There's a chance he's gonna continue to act perfect because he got an ace in the hole. Use that to your advantage until you're tired of him. I only advise this if you are feeling him less than you were before.

2) I have a strong intuition about men. After they touch me (if I let them), I will literally dream about who they are/intentions. Those who know what I'm talking about know that intuition gets stronger with experience. When I was younger, I used to 2nd guess myself until I got tired of walking into mine fields :nono: . I seemed crazy back then, but that experience actually served me well. But now, when I get my gut feeling, its strong...and I now know when to jump ship w/o the 2nd guessing.

My point is that at some point you may get the evidence you need. I'm not suggesting that you look for it, but getting that confirmation will help you learn your lesson, if you can manage to avoid the drama.

If the potential cheating/swinging is a deal breaker for you then use his time, money, etc until you've landed the guy you want or have gotten tired. Not every guy in your rotation needs to be a dime...he just needs to be giving you something worthwhile.

This should go without saying but just in case: Continue to date, esp since he's untrustworthy and is not your man!
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I knew I liked you :bighug:.
 
shortdub78 said:
I'm not. Leave those people alone all together. Snakes don't care who they bite.
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Right! And a lie don't care who tell it....:look:

OP, it sounds like you are backpedaling. If everything was on the up and up with this, you wouldn't have felt the need to ask us what we thought. You even asked if you were being naive in thinking this was innocent, and some posters said you were.

Sometimes we can't see our way out of a bad situation until it is too late, and sometimes, in order for a lesson to be learned, we have to make our own mistakes even though we know better. It sounds like you have the necessary tools in place to proceed with caution, so I hope everything works out for the best. :sneakyhug:
 
GetHappy2014 said:
So, 'my guy' and I had our talk. Bottom line ...before I go into detail is... I am going to continue to see him until I have clear evidence. My gut instinct made me zone in on what I observed between girlfriend and 'my guy'. That same gut instinct is telling me that the interaction was innocent (at least for him). You must remember that hindsight is 20/20. So with that said...many of the posters who were gracious enough to share their stories of betrayal... Must realize that they may have had to wait to receive clear information or undeniable evidence of their SO's behavior that they could no longer deny. In my case, if 'my guy' is up to no good... I am going to need more evidence. Know that I have been dating and been in relationships for years, so I am not new to this. I have come across a few dogs (just a few), but it never took me longer than a month for me to see their ways and take immediate action. I am confident that if my guy is up to no good, I will find out soon enough. Soon enough for me. I have come to know men pretty well. As a single women I am always propositioned by married men, even the ones you would least expect. It has gotten to where I know the game. Most men have side chicks. So I am not gullible or a fool. However, at this point while I am dating my guy, with the exception of the hand incident, I have no complaints. In my heart and gut I do not feel there was anything to the hand incident. However, I do feel girlfriend should have reacted differently. My guys' response to that was, "he cannot tell me what she was thinking."

His response to my inquiry for those interested:
1. Do you think I would play "finger-sies", while you are sitting right there, for you to clearly see?
2. Girlfriend is 'best friends' girl. I would never cross that line.
3. He has never been in a past relationship of any kind with her.

Now, although his statements don't necessarily exonerate him, I cannot just drop a seemingly 'good guy' for something I am not certain about.

So, I will continue to date 'my guy' with 'eyes and ears' turned all the way up. If there is any indication of questionable behavior again, he will be discarded (no questions asked).
By the way, during my online dating stint, I have gotten to know a few private investigators. If my guy and I discuss taking this to the next level, I will definitely patronize their services. I have a feeling they would be happy to oblige.
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One thing that stands out is that he didn't acknowledge your feelings, he didn't apologize for his actions making you feel that way, and he didn't ensure you that something like that would not happen again.

What he did was turn it back on you and make you rationalize and normalize the behavior in question. He tried to make it look like you were being irrational and delusional. Like you can't trust your own two eyes.

Just keep that in mind for future reference.
 
shortdub78 said:
One thing that stands out is that he didn't acknowledge your feelings, he didn't apologize for his actions making you feel that way, and he didn't ensure you that something like that would not happen again.

What he did was turn it back on you and make you rationalize and normalize the behavior in question. He tried to make it look like you were being irrational and delusional. Like you can't trust your own two eyes.

Just keep that in mind for future reference.
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Ita. this is also a red flag.

GetHappy2014 said:
I knew I liked you :bighug:.
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I've never been a fan of telling people what to do...unless they ask directly. I'm all about the halfway mark. I understand how it can all get complicated in your head/heart. I've been there and so my advice is tailored to that kind of thing. I do want to add that you should continue to protect yourself. This includes your heart mind and body. Carry on!

Make sure to update us later down the line.
 
Bunnyhaslonghair said:
Keep us updated
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shortdub78 said:
One thing that stands out is that he didn't acknowledge your feelings, he didn't apologize for his actions making you feel that way, and he didn't ensure you that something like that would not happen again.
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Nope. I don't think your on the mark, this time. He said more in our conversation but I can't recall everything. I personally did not feel he needed to apologize because he inadvertently touched someone's hand/finger. I will add that he was supportive in his answer. He stressed that it was a misunderstanding and that he did not intentionally touch her hand/finger and he did not realize he was touching her hand/finger.
Trust me, I really wish I had more concrete proof that something was going on, but I don't. I get a thrill from letting guys know I am not the one. I have no problem being single and there is someone actually in line for their spot (which is actually true). I don't feel I'm back pedaling. I just don't feel I have enough proof. It really appeared to be an accident on his part.
 
shortdub78 said:
One thing that stands out is that he didn't acknowledge your feelings, he didn't apologize for his actions making you feel that way, and he didn't ensure you that something like that would not happen again.

What he did was turn it back on you and make you rationalize and normalize the behavior in question. He tried to make it look like you were being irrational and delusional. Like you can't trust your own two eyes.

Just keep that in mind for future reference.
Click to expand...

That's how I felt. His response felt like gaslighting. But you know him, we don't. You heard him speak, we didn't. Sometimes things come across different in person
 
shortdub78 said:
One thing that stands out is that he didn't acknowledge your feelings, he didn't apologize for his actions making you feel that way, and he didn't ensure you that something like that would not happen again.

What he did was turn it back on you and make you rationalize and normalize the behavior in question. He tried to make it look like you were being irrational and delusional. Like you can't trust your own two eyes.

Just keep that in mind for future reference.
Click to expand...


Wow, I felt the validation from this post and I'm not even in a relationship :lachen:
 
GetHappy2014 said:
Nope. I don't think your on the mark, this time. He said more in our conversation but I can't recall everything. I personally did not feel he needed to apologize because he inadvertently touched someone's hand/finger. I will add that he was supportive in his answer. He stressed that it was a misunderstanding and that he did not intentionally touch her hand/finger and he did not realize he was touching her hand/finger.
Trust me, I really wish I had more concrete proof that something was going on, but I don't. I get a thrill from letting guys know I am not the one. I have no problem being single and there is someone actually in line for their spot (which is actually true). I don't feel I'm back pedaling. I just don't feel I have enough proof. It really appeared to be an accident on his part.
Click to expand...

Do you have a rotation of men going?
 
ArrrBeee said:
Thanks for sharing and I'm sorry that you had to experience that. I'm glad that you're life is better.



@hopeful

I experienced verbal and emotional abuse in my marriage. You have to be very careful after you come out of that type of situation because you leave so broken that a whiff of good treatment is enough. All they have to do is treat you slightly better than the last man. More than likely, your self esteem has been chipped away and you can be easily manipulated. It isn't likely that you know how to do any of the bulleted items. I know that I didn't. Thank you for highlighting them.

It's a catch 22 because you need to date so that you can get to know different types of men, but at the same time, if you aren't healed, you can end up with the same partner-different name.

Having a broken engagement has really shaken me to the core. I've felt humiliation, anger, hurt and so much more. The flip side is us getting back together was one of the best things that could have happened to me. It helped me to think in shades of gray.

As I was looking at cake toppers, I wanted one that said, "It was always you". Something that symbolized us coming back together and it being great. God showed me that it was never him. He came back into my life for me to learn this last piece, not to be my husband.


@MzLady78

I agree. It is discouraging to hear these stories but you have to remember that there are still good men out there. As you sharpen your intuition, the bums will stand out like sore thumbs. When you hear and see their deception, you will recognize it and send them on their way. Stay encouraged and stay woke.
Click to expand...

I was able to experience the bolded (dating) safely.

What helped me escape the Catch 22 was;

1. Remembering other people's mistakes. One friend ended up pregnant and abandoned after going wild after her divorce.

2. Dating multiple guys. It kept me from focusing on just one guy (and him smelling my vulnerability) and brought me tons of attention from multiple sources (which I needed).

3. Forcing myself to outline the good and the bad of my ExDH and sift through to discover what I valued in a mate. This helped me not just look for guys who displayed traits opposite of my Ex had but forced me to see them as whole people and judge them accordingly. (This may have been one of the most valuable lessons I got).

4. I forced myself to let go of guys at the first sign of suspicious behavior. Having multiple guys in rotation AND not being sexually involved with any of them made red flags easy to spot, and ghosting or calling them out easy to do.

5. Only dating for the experience, not for a relationship. Realizing I needed time to heal and so this was just "practice".

I dated for about 3 months and got it all out of my system. Now, I'm not interested in being in dating or being in a relationship but I needed that time of healing and learning about guys.
 
SurferBabe said:
Do you have a rotation of men going?
Click to expand...
I wouldn't consider it a rotation because I am not able to be intimate (even kissing) with more than one guy at a time. But my guy knows that someone recently came forward professing their feelings for me. I had to let the new guy know that I was in a "relationship". The only reason I decided to let this "new guy" know that I was in an exclusive relationship, was because he himself was looking for exclusivity. I wanted to give him the impression that I was an exclusive type of girl, just in case I reached out to him in the future (which he asked me to do, if things don't work out with 'my guy'). Other than that, let's just say I keep the lines of communication open with other potentials. When it rains it pours. :confused:
 
CoilyFields said:
I was able to experience the bolded (dating) safely.

What helped me escape the Catch 22 was;

1. Remembering other people's mistakes. One friend ended up pregnant and abandoned after going wild after her divorce.

2. Dating multiple guys. It kept me from focusing on just one guy (and him smelling my vulnerability) and brought me tons of attention from multiple sources (which I needed).

3. Forcing myself to outline the good and the bad of my ExDH and sift through to discover what I valued in a mate. This helped me not just look for guys who displayed traits opposite of my Ex had but forced me to see them as whole people and judge them accordingly. (This may have been one of the most valuable lessons I got).

4. I forced myself to let go of guys at the first sign of suspicious behavior. Having multiple guys in rotation AND not being sexually involved with any of them made red flags easy to spot, and ghosting or calling them out easy to do.

5. Only dating for the experience, not for a relationship. Realizing I needed time to heal and so this was just "practice".

I dated for about 3 months and got it all out of my system. Now, I'm not interested in being in dating or being in a relationship but I needed that time of healing and learning about guys.
Click to expand...
Great advice! Thanks for sharing.
 
GetHappy2014 said:
There's nothing wrong with my post... If you have questions ask.
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A lot of people in this board believe in rotations, or dating until you're married/engaged. I firmly believe in this as it only benefits you and will not hurt you. Letting men know you're not exclusive until you have a ring on your finger is the ultimate trial of a man's dedication to you. Idk what @shortycocoa meant specifically but your post seemed off to me for two reasons:
1. Having a rotation does not mean kissing and sexin a bunch of men. It means being available to date and get to know as many men as possible. It keeps dating fun and keeps women from clinging onto potentially bad men because thats their only choice.
2. A man came to you offering exclusivity which imo is a step up from a man who hasn't offered that and is touching other women. It seems backwards that you would give a man touching another woomen in front of you a second chance, but not a man who is offering more at least one measly date.

I wouldn't suggest dropping ol touchy dude if you don't want to. But I would suggest letting that second man take you out. (You can always say, oh I was very flattered and embarrassed in our recent conversation. Maybe you could give me a second chance at dinner/coffee/whatever).

The way you put "relationship in quotes is making me assume you aren't really. Don't let a man control your dating life if you aren't at minimum engaged imo
 
frogkisses said:
A lot of people in this board believe in rotations, or dating until you're married/engaged. I firmly believe in this as it only benefits you and will not hurt you. Letting men know you're not exclusive until you have a ring on your finger is the ultimate trial of a man's dedication to you. Idk what @shortycocoa meant specifically but your post seemed off to me for two reasons:
1. Having a rotation does not mean kissing and sexin a bunch of men. It means being available to date and get to know as many men as possible. It keeps dating fun and keeps women from clinging onto potentially bad men because thats their only choice.
2. A man came to you offering exclusivity which imo is a step up from a man who hasn't offered that and is touching other women. It seems backwards that you would give a man touching another woomen in front of you a second chance, but not a man who is offering more at least one measly date.

I wouldn't suggest dropping ol touchy dude if you don't want to. But I would suggest letting that second man take you out. (You can always say, oh I was very flattered and embarrassed in our recent conversation. Maybe you could give me a second chance at dinner/coffee/whatever).

The way you put "relationship in quotes is making me assume you aren't really. Don't let a man control your dating life if you aren't at minimum engaged imo
Click to expand...

Thank you girl...you said all of this better than I would have yesterday. OP, I didn't have questions at the time, only statements. But now I have to ask, how old are you if you don't mind me asking?

Now on to my statements...I'll mostly be piggybacking off of what @frogkisses said, but OP it seems like you are giving this dude that disrespected you too much, and he doesn't deserve it. You are revealing too much of your hand to him, and he doesn't deserve top billing either, just based off of what you have told us has happened. You need to pull back some.

He shouldn't even know that another guy exists or has feelings for you. Anyone that is not married is single, as far as the dating game goes. If you want to be nice, courteous, etc. and inform him, all he needs to know is that there is a roster. That's it and that's all. *in my @ThatJerseyGirl voice*...cause we sure need her and her chain smoking self in here. I got 5 on a box of Newport one hunnits for you, Jersey. :look:

If you ask me, OP, the other guy that came at you respectfully needs to be put in the game for a while and Mr. Touchy Feely should be placed at the bottom of the list. He can work his way back up, if that's even an option, and you shouldn't make it easy for him either. Once a man knows that he can not only disrespect you, but disrespect you without feeling the impending consequences, he's going to continue as long as you let him. Remember, we teach people how to treat us.

No one said anything about you sexing them, so I'm not sure why you made that assumption about having a rotation meaning you had to be getting physical with every guy. Totally not the case.
 
shortycocoa said:
Once a man knows that he can not only disrespect you, but disrespect you without feeling the impending consequences, he's going to continue as long as you let him. Remember, we teach people how to treat us.
Click to expand...

Quoting for emphasis. So much wisdom in this thread. If only I had this forum when I was younger. It would've saved me a ton of disappointment and wasted time.
 
@GetHappy2014 here's a few things that stand out to me me:

1) your gut instinct was that something was wrong and not innocent about the touching
2) your intuition only 'changed' after he rationalised it for you
3) you keep calling him "your guy" in quotes as if you're not even sure where you guys stand
4) you're putting the onus solely on the other woman about how she reacted to his advances while dismissing the fact that he was also flirting with her. Even if she had reacted by slapping his hand away, doesn't change the fact he was trying to caress her hand

From what you said, they both seem like they're wrong and get off on tiny inappropriate reminders of a shared intimacy that shouldn't be. Just my thought.
 
Kalani said:
Quoting for emphasis. So much wisdom in this thread. If only I had this forum when I was younger. It would've saved me a ton of disappointment and wasted time.
Click to expand...

@Kalani, complete co-sign!!! I'm glad this forum exists so that we can all learn from each other and make better life decisions. I certainly would do some things differently if I could go back in time with the knowledge I have now...

summertimewine said:
Don't let a man control your dating life if you aren't at minimum engaged imo
Click to expand...

Re-quoting this part for emphasis...but I also want to add don't "waste all your pretty" on him or give one guy all of your best years, especially if you are not married to him or on the road to being married. And even then, you should still have your own interests and keep your life going. Don't make his life your whole life, if that makes sense.

To me, on the road to being married is actively planning a wedding and getting ready to walk down the aisle in a few months. Not "discussing" marriage, fake-shopping for a ring or any of the other ploys men like to use to make you think they're about that life.

Know your end game and find out what his end game is early in the game so that you can adjust quickly, change up your plays and move on if you don't share the same interests.

Doing that will prevent you from wasting a lot of time in relationships and "situationships."
 
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