Interracial Dating...contemplating The Swirl...need Input

[CoilyFields]

I'm newly divorced (YaY!) and casually dating. As an adult I have always felt certain that I would never date/marry a white guy.

Recently, two instances made me re-examine my dating options.

At my office I made small talk with an electrician (white guy) as he worked in my hall. The next week, the maintenance guy told me that the electrician had come back and asked about me and said I was beautiful.

Second thing happened at a movie where a white guy was sitting in front of me. As he was walking out we made extended eye contact and the thought popped in my head that he was the type of white guy I would date (looks-wise).

I have been wondering if either one of those guys had asked me out, would I have accepted?

In review of my adult dating life, I realized I'd never actually been approached by a sober white man. And so had not considered them real dating or life partner options. My only real swirl objection came down to two reasons...
I am very much "woke" and cannot imagine sharing that with a non-black man. Second reason...I like dark skinned men and the thought of pink peen slightly repulses me .

So my question for those who have dated out...

How much does race come into your interactions? Did you look for a certain level of racial awareness in them first? How do they respond to racial conflict/conversations? Did/Do you have to teach them?

If you have a white SO...do you participate in the Becky bashing that goes on here? I know this is a safe space for US to talk but I know that my exDH would obviously not have cared about us Becky-bashing or even man-bashing...but I can imagine a white DH/SO being offended because his mama and sisters are/could be Becky's. How do you handle this?

 

[Lucie]

I dated a few white men and married one. I hate to sound cliché but we didn't really focus on race. I was so into him and he was so into me that we just focused on each other the person, not as a spouse of a different race.

His penis was not pink nor close to it.

I have always loved and dated black men. I am not the same Lucie that got married '99. I am more in tuned with I am, my people and the atrocities committed against us past and present. Maybe a year ago I'd have chastised you for it but... it's your happiness that matters. Plus, I realized too much problack stuff was making me a jerk. LOL! I had to scale back.

I hope you do find a black man but if you don't, that's okay too. The key is to be with a man that treats you like the queen that you are. If anyone gives you guff about it, pay them no mind.

Before I forget, I used to say stuff about annoying white men and women in front of my ex. My closest friend is white and we discuss the stupidity of white people all of the time. I don't feel like white men internalize the bashing of their women the way black people do.

Good luck!

 

[silverbuttons]

I agree with Lucie, white men aren't that sensitive. Personally I would never date another white man.. but don't do it if you're not comfortable just yet. When/if you are, only date financially privileged white men. It will make the rainbow (green, red, pink, purple) crayon look better.

 

[CoilyFields]

I dated a few white men and married one. I hate to sound cliché but we didn't really focus on race. I was so into him and he was so into me that we just focused on each other the person, not as a spouse of a different race.

His penis was not pink nor close to it.

I have always loved and dated black men. I am not the same Lucie that got married '99. I am more in tuned with I am, my people and the atrocities committed against us past and present. Maybe a year ago I'd have chastised you for it but... it's your happiness that matters. Plus, I realized too much problack stuff was making me a jerk. LOL! I had to scale back.

I hope you do find a black man but if you don't, that's okay too. The key is to be with a man that treats you like they are. If anyone gives you guff about it, pay them no mind.

Before I forget, I used to say stuff about annoying white men and women in front of my ex. My closest friend is white and we discuss the stupidity of white people all of the time. I don't feel like white men internalize the bashing of their women the way black people do.

Good luck!

Thanks for your reply!
The bolded is what I'm really worried about. I'm much more pro Black than I ever was before. Years ago I feel like an interracial relationship would have been similar to what you describe in your previous marriage...but now race is so much a part of my regular narrative that I feel like it would be awkward or overwhelming with someone of a different race.

I Definitely don't care about other's opinions concerning my potential SO's race but I do hope I find a black man!

 

[CoilyFields]

I agree with Lucie, white men aren't that sensitive. Personally I would never date another white man.. but don't do it if you're not comfortable just yet. When/if you are, only date financially privileged white men. It will make the rainbow (green, red, pink, purple) crayon look better.

I'm uncomfortable with dating period! It's been so long... But I'm trying to force myself out of my comfort zone...though I'm not committing to tasting the rainbow lol.

 

[Crackers Phinn]

I am very much "woke" and cannot imagine sharing that with a non-black man. Second reason...I like dark skinned men and the thought of pink peen slightly repulses me .

I think that you have your answer right here as to whether you should proceed. I would suggest that you stick to black men.

How much does race come into your interactions?

For the most part, my husband was not raised in the U.S. so we have more culture conflicts than race based ones. He identifies as Jewish, not white. Outsiders don't see the difference but folks who have little to no genetic or physical ties to Europe see it clearly.

Did you look for a certain level of racial awareness in them first?

As long as he didn't vote republican and didn't know of any immediate family that did I took that as a workable springboard.

How do they respond to racial conflict/conversations?

He has no problem calling out f'ery when he sees it. None of this "let's wait for the whole story" nonsense. He understands his privilege and is unapologetic about it but he doesn't mind lending it out and has opened doors for folks in my family and in my field of need that they would never have had access to. So he uses his powers for good occasionally.

Did/Do you have to teach them?

Non black men do not come ready made woke and there are some that will never move up the woke spectrum (republicans shan't). In my experience, dating IR means you're going to have to be ready to do some level of teaching. Marrying IR means there's going to be some level of teaching their family as well. Sometimes even when they mean well, they get it completely wrong.

Same race relationships require work. IR relationships will require different work.

If you have a white SO...do you participate in the Becky bashing that goes on here? I know this is a safe space for US to talk but I know that my exDH would obviously not have cared about us Becky-bashing or even man-bashing...but I can imagine a white DH/SO being offended because his mama and sisters are/could be Becky's. How do you handle this?

I kind of ix-nay on using Becky as a derogatory term since Rebecca is a Jewish matriarch and I'm literally surrounded by 5817171840719 Becky's at any given time. However, the mister is used to shiksa bashing so, it don't phase him to hear that white women ain't ****.

Thanksgiving was filled with 'wtf is wrong with white women voting for Trump'.

 

[CoilyFields]

I think that you have your answer right here as to whether you should proceed. I would suggest that you stick to black men.


Non black men do not come ready made woke and there are some that will never move up the woke spectrum (republicans shan't). In my experience, dating IR means you're going to have to be ready to do some level of teaching. Marrying IR means there's going to be some level of teaching their family as well. Sometimes even when they mean well, they get it completely wrong.

Same race relationships require work. IR relationships will require different work.

Thanks! Your answers were very helpful...

Regarding the Bolded;
Most of my youth and during my 20's I was open to dating interracially, it's only been in the last few years that I started to feel that it was not for me. Now I'm trying to determine if my reasoning was more circumstantial or if my reasons would stand even in the face of a potentially good relationship with a non-black man. I guess I'm trying to figure out if being Black is one of my non-negotiable's for a future DH.

Second bolded: I don't mind doing some teaching, I actually do it often in my career. But I hadn't thought about having to educate their family too!

 

[hopeful]

@CoilyFields
IMO no harm in being open to other races. Why not? I think men are men. Really think about what you want character-wise and value-wise. Open yourself up to being treated well and loved, then go from there. If I were you I'd go with the flow. Rule out things like cheaters, arrogance, lack of empathy, etc., not the color of someone's skin. If you end up finding you really just don't click with white men that's one thing, but for now why not just be open? Good luck and have fun.

 

[intellectualuva]

I think you got some solid advice. I will also cosign that they don't take WW bashing personally. Lol. They, like ALL men may put their backs up when they are questioned or feel criticized, but they're usually not expending any effort to "defend their women" ...at least not that way.

If you think "pink" peens are gross though, you may want to stay away. All of them aren't "pink", but some are on the same color spectrum, so you may not want to risk it. There are plenty of others (non-white) out there for you to see what works for you culturally, ethnically or otherwise.

 

[YvetteWithJoy]

@CoilyFields, do you think a lack of "wokeness" in a white man would annoy you? Also, have you ever dealt with a white man's penis? What makes you think a pink penis or beige penis would bother you?

 

[Crackers Phinn]

Thanks! Your answers were very helpful...

Regarding the Bolded;
Most of my youth and during my 20's I was open to dating interracially, it's only been in the last few years that I started to feel that it was not for me. Now I'm trying to determine if my reasoning was more circumstantial or if my reasons would stand even in the face of a potentially good relationship with a non-black man. I guess I'm trying to figure out if being Black is one of my non-negotiable's for a future DH.

Second bolded: I don't mind doing some teaching, I actually do it often in my career. But I hadn't thought about having to educate their family too!

Your own wokeness can be worked around especially some of if it is of the hotep variety. Being sexually repulsed can't. If the thought of pink peen or skin lighter than beige really is a barrier then don't try and force yourself to overlook it. Or consider whether the repulsion is part of what 'woke' womenfolk are supposed to say.

The easiest way to rule out non black men is to go on a few dates with some and see if it feels off. If you're not icked out then proceed with the same caution you would with a black dude. Ignore the conventional wisdom that people who have never been in an IR give. The best suited non black dude for IR is one who has dated black women exclusively or almost exclusively and understands that he is not black by proxy. People instantly think wiggers but I'ma point to Robert De Niro or Roger Ebert. They know exactly what it is that they want, have already been broken in which requires less teaching on your part and they don't annoyingly try to 'act black'. Regardless of race, most men will have a pattern when it comes to women that will be easily recognizable by everybody on the outside looking in. My unscientifically verifiable observation is that black women who end up married to nonblack men are with men who either dated black women exclusively or she was the first time that the dude dealt with a woman outside of his normal dating pattern. Depending on the dudes age, the second scenario isn't as damning as it seems.

Stuff to look out for - Nonblack men with biracial children who have never been married are to be avoided. They out here playin. The majority of nonblack men are going to get married before they are 35, 40 at the absolute latest so if you run into a Bill Maher type who is 61 and never been married --- Playin. Unless you're checking for a sugar daddy, which is a different thread. Avoid the taste the rainbow dudes who have dated some of everything. They ain't serious and will ultimately go back to whatever woman is in their ethnic group.

 

[PeaceFlow]

I haven't had to do any teaching for 2 out of 3 of my non black relationshps and I frankly would never take that on again. EVER.

I will say my first IR boyfriend was white and really on the ball when it came to race issues. The only problem was - after time I began to get lonely in these conversations. I appreciated that he could see BS all around, but I felt like I was also in it, experiencing it, having micro agressions and discrimination affect my life and my friends/famillies lives. He was supporting, but from a very safe space. In that situation having a white parter with his eyes open still wasn't enough even though hes a lovely guy. It was like a slight disatisfaction that built over time.

Now I am with a part white/part other. He's also sees things for what they are and I can talk to him about anything. Plus its also easier because hes been on the recieving end of direct racism so he doesn't put anything past white people (when I mention potential micro aggressions etc..). In terms of IR this I believe is as good as it's going to get for me. I don't have that indescribable feeling of being with someone from my race and culture (by that I mean Black, british Carribean), but I feel comfortable, I'm completely myself with him and I feel supported.

Tis funny answering this question at 30 +. I've had more time to reflect on these experiences. Honestly, I'm relucant to be in a relationship with white English guy again. And not because I haven't been treated well (relationships and dating). Everything can be flowers but that understanding.... it is so important. It doesn't matter if the guy is non racist, good morals and whatever, there is something missing with many white guys no matter how well meaning for me.

I've personally had some very positive experiences with others, but I can't advise other black women to go into IR lightly. By all means date and generally talk to some different people than you usually do. You may be surprised by what you find.

Even if you are someone who is willing to teach you need to know just how much you have to do. Dont wait to show your race concious side or discuss current events. You will be able to tell if they cringe, are avoidant, make excuses or stay very tight lipped very quickly and will know that isn't the guy for you.

 

[CoilyFields]

The easiest way to rule out non black men is to go on a few dates with some and see if it feels off. If you're not icked out then proceed with the same caution you would with a black dude.

Stuff to look out for - Nonblack men with biracial children who have never been married are to be avoided. They out here playin. The majority of nonblack men are going to get married before they are 35, 40 at the absolute latest so if you run into a Bill Maher type who is 61 and never been married --- Playin. Unless you're checking for a sugar daddy, which is a different thread. Avoid the taste the rainbow dudes who have dated some of everything. They ain't serious and will ultimately go back to whatever woman is in their ethnic group.

I agree that I'll have to go on a few dates (especially now while I'm only dating for fun) to really find out if it's something I like.

My dating and even just flirting experiences with Black men are so intuitive that I almost feel like I'm exploring another species lol with wm. I'm definitely taking notes on these things I hadn't even considered!

I think you got some solid advice. I will also cosign that they don't take WW bashing personally. Lol. They, like ALL men may put their backs up when they are questioned or feel criticized, but they're usually not expending any effort to "defend their women" ...at least not that way.

If you think "pink" peens are gross though, you may want to stay away. All of them aren't "pink", but some are on the same color spectrum, so you may not want to risk it. There are plenty of others (non-white) out there for you to see what works for you culturally, ethnically or otherwise.

It's weird that they wouldn't take WW bashing personally...that just doesn't compute! But if they don't, how does that make them any different from the BM scum that we point out who are with WW and one or both of them indulge in BW bashing?
Hmmm...even taking into consideration societal complications...thats kinda weird...dunno, I'll have to think more about that.

Repulsed might be too strong a word...I just know I've always dated brown and dark skinned men. The pink factor could be a matter of it not being what I'm used to. It's one of those things that I'm not sure about...and I'm a Christian (being abstinent) so this presents a catch 22 since I have no intention of having sex before I get married again (but thats a whole 'nother thread).

 

[YvetteWithJoy]

I agree that I'll have to go on a few dates (especially now while I'm only dating for fun) to really find out if it's something I like.

My dating and even just flirting experiences with Black men are so intuitive that I almost feel like I'm exploring another species lol with wm. I'm definitely taking notes on these things I hadn't even considered!



It's weird that they wouldn't take WW bashing personally...that just doesn't compute! But if they don't, how does that make them any different from the BM scum that we point out who are with WW and one or both of them indulge in BW bashing?
Hmmm...even taking into consideration societal complications...thats kinda weird...dunno, I'll have to think more about that.

Repulsed might be too strong a word...I just know I've always dated brown and dark skinned men. The pink factor could be a matter of it not being what I'm used to. It's one of those things that I'm not sure about...and I'm a Christian (being abstinent) so this presents a catch 22 since I have no intention of having sex before I get married again (but thats a whole 'nother thread).

Ahhh. Gotcha. I'm christian, too, so I get it. My DH is black, but before him I almost married a white redhead. We did not have intercourse, but I had to see, feel, and touch the penis before marriage. I wasn't going to dive in THAT blind.

I want to say it's really a non-issue, but I don't want to make any assumptions about how you process things. Have you seen one in a movie or on the 'net? Can you invest in an inanimate one? I can't say it would necessarily help, but that might be as close as you can get given your values. Maybe see one in motion near a black woman and pay attention to how you feel about THAT.

I'm hoping that if you date a white man, you'll be able to tell whether you like having his mouth, tongue, hands, etc. near you, and that THAT will give you enough of a sign. If you're wondering if BM's penises are very different from WM's penises otherwise, IME not at all except for the size thingy. Unfortunately, the stereotype played out in my life experiences (sample size n = 4 . . . very small, LOL!). YMMV.

 

[Crackers Phinn]

All these religious ladies in here talking bout paynuses.
I'm including me.

 

[YvetteWithJoy]

All these religious ladies in here talking bout paynuses.
I'm including me.

Guilty as charged! I did my best! That's all I can say. LOL.

 

[summertimewine]

DH is black, white and Mexican. He looks white
One of the very first things I asked him was what race he was. When we got on our first date I literally told him I hate white people he agreed

I guess it's not just about that but he is very reasonable and understanding. I can talk to him about my fears of police and trump etc. He tries to find solutions for us which is sweet.

But I have neva dated a regular ol white dude. I guess I never will lord willing.

 

[CoilyFields]

Ahhh. Gotcha. I'm christian, too, so I get it. My DH is black, but before him I almost married a white redhead. We did not have intercourse, but I had to see, feel, and touch the penis before marriage. I wasn't going to dive in THAT blind.

I want to say it's really a non-issue, but I don't want to make any assumptions about how you process things. Have you seen one in a movie or on the 'net? Can you invest in an inanimate one? I can't say it would necessarily help, but that might be as close as you can get given your values. Maybe see one in motion near a black woman and pay attention to how you feel about THAT.

I'm hoping that if you date a white man, you'll be able to tell whether you like having his mouth, tongue, hands, etc. near you, and that THAT will give you enough of a sign. If you're wondering if BM's penises are very different from WM's penises otherwise, IME not at all except for the size thingy. Unfortunately, the stereotype played out in my life experiences (sample size n = 4 . . . very small, LOL!). YMMV.

I'm not THAT blind! I've seen one in real life...but the memory is so vague (high school). I wasn't disgusted, but I can also say that at the time I was growing up around mostly WP and did not have the same appreciation for dark skinned men that I have now.

Funny that you mention hands and mouth etc. From a date I went on a few weeks ago, I've realized how important a man's hands and lips are to me. I like big, firm, hands, and solid medium lips. If I don't like his hands or lips, neither one will get anywhere near me. I feel like I'm learning myself now as a real grown woman (I only had two BF before I met my exDH and got married in my early 20s).

 

[CoilyFields]

All these religious ladies in here talking bout paynuses.
I'm including me.

We don't talk about sex and relationships enough in church...though this level of discussion would cause an apocalypse!

 

[CoilyFields]

DH is black, white and Mexican. He looks white
One of the very first things I asked him was what race he was. When we got on our first date I literally told him I hate white people he agreed

I guess it's not just about that but he is very reasonable and understanding. I can talk to him about my fears of police and trump etc. He tries to find solutions for us which is sweet.

But I have neva dated a regular ol white dude. I guess I never will lord willing.

Does his mixture include one white parent? How are your interactions with his family concerning racial topics? Do they feel the same as him?

 

[YvetteWithJoy]

We don't talk about sex and relationships enough in church...though this level of discussion would cause an apocalypse!

At my VERY conservative white church back years ago, we had a jaw-dropping class on God's design for sexuality. A black, male psychologist taught it, and he minced no words. The surveys made you blush! The first lesson went into detail about how God loves it when His married children are getting it on. I almost melted into my chair that first class.

 

[SweetNic_JA]

I don't know. It sounds a bit defeatist to seek out white guys just because they suddenly are giving the time of day. It speaks of an insecurity, which white men with the wrong kind of intention would take advantage of.

 

[CoilyFields]

I don't know. It sounds a bit defeatist to seek out white guys just because they suddenly are giving the time of day. It speaks of an insecurity, which white men with the wrong kind of intention would take advantage of.

That's not what I meant.

I've always stated that a lot of human decisions are not as principled as we like to think, but many are determined by opportunity meeting circumstance. These WM brought themselves to my attention during a time in my life when dating is a reality so it sparked a question.

example; Pre-DH I always thought I only wanted a degreed white collar mate, but that had more to do with status quo expectations and my not being exposed to many alternatives. Marrying my Ex showed me a whole new option and that white collar wasn't actually important to me.

So now I'm trying to determine what I really want versus what sounds nice or what others want, or even what's simply a reaction to my new status. Questioning if my "only black men" stance was I making that statement because I was comfortably married and so wasn't faced with this as a real option? Easily dismissed because it didn't apply to me? Or is this truly something that would bother me?

 

[SweetNic_JA]

That's not what I meant.

I've always stated that a lot of human decisions are not as principled as we like to think, but many are determined by opportunity meeting circumstance. These WM brought themselves to my attention during a time in my life when dating is a reality so it sparked a question.

example; Pre-DH I always thought I only wanted a degreed white collar mate, but that had more to do with status quo expectations and my not being exposed to many alternatives. Marrying my Ex showed me a whole new option and that white collar wasn't actually important to me.

So now I'm trying to determine what I really want versus what sounds nice or what others want, or even what's simply a reaction to my new status. Questioning if my "only black men" stance was I making that statement because I was comfortably married and so wasn't faced with this as a real option? Easily dismissed because it didn't apply to me? Or is this truly something that would bother me?

Got it.
I don't think you have anything to lose if this is really what you want and if you choose wisely. That's the case for any person you meet. My close relative always says "go slow to be sure". It always help to look for someone who has similar values and has demonstrated (or can demonstrate) his loyalty to those values.

Good luck.

 

[movingforward]

He has no problem calling out f'ery when he sees it. None of this "let's wait for the whole story" nonsense. He understands his privilege and is unapologetic about it but he doesn't mind lending it out and has opened doors for folks in my family and in my field of need that they would never have had access to. So he uses his powers for good occasionally.

I enjoyed your entire post. Particularly the above piece. In my experience, WM. Understand they have privilege and usually do not have an issue helping others.

WW......welll........

 

[tibb1908]

The first time I dated a WM was in high school and I was 16. I was not even thinking about him but apparently he was crushing since middle school. I attended a mostly white HS and he received a lot of flack for dating me but it was all directed at him from WW. He told them that I was who he wanted to be with and nothing that they did would change how he felt. I don't know if he was woke but I will say he was loyal and supported me and he shut down everybody who had anything negative to say. It was one of the best relationships I've had while dating. He would have been my husband if I could have handled the distance between us for college and the time he put in for football.

I wouldn't date out unless he had an awareness of my struggles as a black woman and be able understand me when I say white people get on my nerves. Those are the only type of men that I've dated because I wouldn't want to explain everything.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if a 16 year is aware an adult should be too if he's trying to date you.

 

[sweetvi]

At my VERY conservative white church back years ago, we had a jaw-dropping class on God's design for sexuality. A black, male psychologist taught it, and he minced no words. The surveys made you blush! The first lesson went into detail about how God loves it when His married children are getting it on. I almost melted into my chair that first class.

I wish I was at that church lol. What else did he say? Did he talk about oral? I know some churches preach agaibst ut

 

[YvetteWithJoy]

I wish I was at that church lol. What else did he say? Did he talk about oral? I know some churches preach agaibst ut

He talked about everything. It was crazy. He said oral is wonderful as long as both partners are okay with it. He talked about how there is no purpose for the clitoris except pleasure, and what that means about how God feels about sexuality. He talked about intimacy on all levels, and how if you aren't noticing your level of intimacy, then that probably means it's just right. Because, too much intimacy feels suffocating, and too little intimacy feels lonely.

There were like 8 classes or so, and there was lots of material. I'll try to see if my husband still has all the handouts. If he does, I'll scan them and share them. This was years ago, and we've moved since, so hopefully he can find them. Good stuff. I was glad to be able to hear/talk about that stuff at church. Refreshing. Answered a lot of my questions and helped me to open up a bit in that area.

 

[ScorpioBeauty09]

I'm not into WM, especially white American men. I'd possibly make an exception for certain European nationalities but generally speaking I'm down with every other race/ethnic group except them.

At my friend's recent wedding, there was only one white person. The rest were Mexican, Persian, Indian and Black and one Vietnamese person lol. I was a bridesmaid and ended up dancing, flirting and kissing a groomsman who was Mexican and we talked about being of color in the age of Donald Trump but neither of us made a big deal about him being Mexican and me being AA. I just saw a man I had fun talking to and dancing with. The first man I fell in love with was black but I've been interested in and had romantic encounters with other MOC who were Egyptian, Afghan, Filipino and Chinese and race came up in the context of us getting to know each other like cultural expectations etc.

Maybe it's just where I live but POCs are tired of wypipo these days.

 

[YvetteWithJoy]

He talked about everything. It was crazy. He said oral is wonderful as long as both partners are okay with it. He talked about how there is no purpose for the clitoris except pleasure, and what that means about how God feels about sexuality. He talked about intimacy on all levels, and how if you aren't noticing your level of intimacy, then that probably means it's just right. Because, too much intimacy feels suffocating, and too little intimacy feels lonely.

There were like 8 classes or so, and there was lots of material. I'll try to see if my husband still has all the handouts. If he does, I'll scan them and share them. This was years ago, and we've moved since, so hopefully he can find them. Good stuff. I was glad to be able to hear/talk about that stuff at church. Refreshing. Answered a lot of my questions and helped me to open up a bit in that area.

Hubby says he has scans of many of the handouts, but they contain all our personal note taking. I will see if I can erase that digitally. I'll post either a link to them or a note that it didn't work out . . . here by Saturday.