Do you think black men as a group are as loyal to black women as we are to them?

[qchelle]

I think I need to just copy and paste the things I write.


In a nutshell, the ENTIRE black community is broken. If we are going to talk about fixing this issue, black women need to work on themselves. In order to fix others, you must first fix yourself.

adding to the above copy and paste--

As a whole, black women need some fixing up just as much as black men do. That is FACT. How can we talk about what black men need to do as a WHOLE, when as a WHOLE black women are just as messed up.

Speaking for myself, I blame both men AND women. However, when talking about solutions, I can't speak for men because I am not one. I can however talk about where women are dropping the ball, and what we can do to help change it.

Ok, this may be totally random and not even hinting at what you're talking about but I'd like to respond to this.

I guess I'm just a snob lol because I disagree with that with the notion that BW are just as messed up as BM. For the simple fact that BW go to, and graduate from, college at a higher rate than BM (same for white folk I no, but we ain't talking about them ratnah). And I no, I no...education is not the end all be all, you need more than education, what about your personal life, family life, etc. I agree completely.

But after you've exhausted all of your other options for determining 'messedup-ness', what else is left? Ok, BW and BM have equally disparaging emotional and mental problems. BW think they alladat and a bag o' chips with a drank on the side and need to calm the hell down. Right, check, ok. BM are lazy, good fo' nothin negros who yell derogatory things to women on the skreets. Yup, got that, ok. And we can agree that both of these attitudes (mental issues) stem from, at least in part, not being raised in a nuclear family unit. Not having a good, sane representation of what it means to be a woman and what it means to be a man. I'm still with you on that.

So now...what do we have to measure...success...or 'messedup-ness' by? We've already been through mental and emotional stability. Oh! We can also add a heaux factor in as well. BM and BW procreate like nobodys business. Still equal playing fields. Now factor in educational status and I'll take BW FTW. Like I said, I understand that it is not (because it is NOT) the end all be all, if you have your education, then that's all you need=wrong. Understood and agree. But c'mon, you gotta take this into consideration, right? At least a little bit?

Disclaimer: My daddy is a wonderful man, husband, and father who treats my mommy like a queen and me like a princess. I don't surround myself with thug types of BM. My BM friends are all child free and in college, as are my BW friends. I hope my previous post wasn't seen as BM bashing

Why do we interpret the notion that we have to work on ourselves as an assault on who we are?

Why are we so defensive? Life is all about self-improvement.

When I came home whining about yet another bad date, my dad did "you're beautiful baby! Any man should be lucky to have you! The right guy will come along" for about 5 minutes and then looked me dead in the eye and asked me "well, Syrah, would you want to date you?".



We all need to ask ourselves these questions. Would WE want to date ourselves?

Is this rhetorical or were you serious? If you were serious: because people don't like to hear from others that they need to work on themselves. It implies that there's something wrong with you. Nobody likes to hear that, hence the defensive responses. It is sort of seen as an attack. If you were being rhetorical please forgive me and my non context-clue reading self

Disclaimer: I wholeheartedly agree that life is about self improvement and I will hopefully continue to improve myself as the years go on. My response to your post wasn't advocating that BW don't need any self-improvement. I was merely providing a response to 'why do we interpret the notion that we have to work on ourselves as an attack on who we are?' and 'why are we so defensive?' Nothing more.

Also, I would absolutely love to date me. Are you kidding me? I am the beesknees, dabomb.com, and the ish. #sarcasm

 

[MzLady78]

seriously?

I stated that in some cases it isn't possible. The mother could have met and procreated with a loser. The man left. The reality of that situation is that THERE IS STILL A CHILD TO RAISE TO ADULTHOOD.

As a mother, who should she focus on? Raising her daughter as a healthy black woman? OR should she focus on the fact that the man should ensure a presence in his daughters life.

Lawd.....

I agree with you. But I also know first hand that while that sounds good in theory, it's not always as simple in practice. Sometimes the mother is struggling just to keep afloat. When my parents split, I was 14, my brother was 9 and my sister was 4. Maybe if it had been just me, things would have been different. But she had two younger kids to worry about.

I don't think she ever really knew how troubled I was, there was just too much else going on. We'd also moved into a house from an apartment around that time. So, she had to deal with maintaining this huge house on her own, and raising 3 kids, with no child support because to this day, he can't keep a job.

 

[Syrah]

Well, I can't speak for her but that's not what I got from her post at all. I would never want to throw my accomplishments in someone's face. I'm just saying you shouldn't be made to feel ashamed for taking care of business. Also, I understand what you mean about getting someone who is "on your level" but I think this conflicts with the ever-present ideology that black women should "lower their standards" because every black man is not gonna be a corporate attorney making six figures, blah blah, etc. So if we "settle" by picking a man we love, not a resume we love, then we can't speak of our life accomplishments? Again, that's confusing.

I'm not Snilloh, so I can't speak for her - although I think her and I are saying the same thing, with different words. But folks (speaking generally) are getting defensive at the notion that they might need to change their tactics. And I don't understand why. I don't understand what could be more important or rewarding than a happy healthy, supportive relationship.

But for whatever reason, we're willing to work on everything EXCEPT that. We'll change our work style and our professional behaviors. We will study hard to be at the top of our class to get the good job. I did it and am as a grad student, still doing it. I busted my tail to get the job and am beyond proud of that.

But work on ourselves to secure and maintain a lifelong relationship? Oh no...he should want me and worship me just the way I am. And damn anybody who tells me otherwise, even though deep down, I'm single and don't want to be and don't understand why what I'm doing isn't working. Honestly, I don't get it.

Again - you keep saying "stop speaking of our life accomplishments". I didn't type that nor am I implying that.

What I'm saying is that your accomplishments should not be a weapon. They should not be used to hurt, to make someone feel inadequate or as a piece of leverage on EITHER side. I would NEVER be with a man who ever said to me "I make more than you so we're doing this my way". EVER. A man is no different.

Your accomplishments should inspire and should motivate.

I just deleted a bunch of other stuff I typed, because honestly, I think you understand exactly what I'm saying. Reducing a man solely to what he is able to bring home in a paycheck means you no longer respect his non-monetary qualities. What's the point of beign with someone you don't respect.

If a woman feels like said dude isn't pulling his weight, she shouldn't be with him. If a woman makes the conscious decision to date and mate with a man she views as "less than" she negates her ability to throw his "less than" status in his face because SHE CHOSE HIM.

 

[Syrah]

Ok, this may be totally random and not even hinting at what you're talking about but I'd like to respond to this.

I guess I'm just a snob lol because I disagree with that with the notion that BW are just as messed up as BM. For the simple fact that BW go to, and graduate from, college at a higher rate than BM (same for white folk I no, but we ain't talking about them ratnah). And I no, I no...education is not the end all be all, you need more than education, what about your personal life, family life, etc. I agree completely.

But after you've exhausted all of your other options for determining 'messedup-ness', what else is left? Ok, BW and BM have equally disparaging emotional and mental problems. BW think they alladat and a bag o' chips with a drank on the side and need to calm the hell down. Right, check, ok. BM are lazy, good fo' nothin negros who yell derogatory things to women on the skreets. Yup, got that, ok. And we can agree that both of these attitudes (mental issues) stem from, at least in part, not being raised in a nuclear family unit. Not having a good, sane representation of what it means to be a woman and what it means to be a man. I'm still with you on that.

So now...what do we have to measure...success...or 'messedup-ness' by? We've already been through mental and emotional stability. Oh! We can also add a heaux factor in as well. BM and BW procreate like nobodys business. Still equal playing fields. Now factor in educational status and I'll take BW FTW. Like I said, I understand that it is not (because it is NOT) the end all be all, if you have your education, then that's all you need=wrong. Understood and agree. But c'mon, you gotta take this into consideration, right? At least a little bit?

Disclaimer: My daddy is a wonderful man, husband, and father who treats my mommy like a queen and me like a princess. I don't surround myself with thug types of BM. My BM friends are all child free and in college, as are my BW friends. I hope my previous post wasn't seen as BM bashing



Is this rhetorical or were you serious? If you were serious: because people don't like to hear from others that they need to work on themselves. It implies that there's something wrong with you. Nobody likes to hear that, hence the defensive responses. It is sort of seen as an attack. If you were being rhetorical please forgive me and my non context-clue reading self

Disclaimer: I wholeheartedly agree that life is about self improvement and I will hopefully continue to improve myself as the years go on. My response to your post wasn't advocating that BW don't need any self-improvement. I was merely providing a response to 'why do we interpret the notion that we have to work on ourselves as an attack on who we are?' and 'why are we so defensive?' Nothing more.

Also, I would absolutely love to date me. Are you kidding me? I am the beesknees, dabomb.com, and the ish. #sarcasm

Two questions: How does education directly contribute to a healthy relationship? I can think of many ways education can indirectly contribute to a foundation for a healthy relationship.

I think education is very important in a life-skills context...shoot, I'm a grad student as we speak. But for relationships, its a personal achievement and accomplishment. Nothing more.

Regarding the need for self-improvement - our "independent" act isn't fooling anyone. We're financially independent and emotionally scarred. Our reaction to the myraid of articles about black women's beauty, well being and health is direct proof of that. Shoot...we felt the need to talk about whether or not "Mixed Chicks" products was an attempt at degrading black women.

It's because we interpret the need for self-improvement as an attack and an assault. We see it as a backhanded way of saying that black women are damanged goods when we are not.

The only way we become damaged goods is if we refuse to first acknowledge that we can stand to be better, and then do something about it.

 

[BEAUTYU2U]

I'm not Snilloh, so I can't speak for her - although I think her and I are saying the same thing, with different words. But folks (speaking generally) are getting defensive at the notion that they might need to change their tactics. And I don't understand why. I don't understand what could be more important or rewarding than a happy healthy, supportive relationship.

But for whatever reason, we're willing to work on everything EXCEPT that. We'll change our work style and our professional behaviors. We will study hard to be at the top of our class to get the good job.

But work on ourselves to secure and maintain a lifelong relationship? Oh no...he should want me and worship me just the way I am. And damn anybody who tells me otherwise, even though deep down, I'm single and don't want to be and don't understand why what I'm doing isn't working.

Honestly, I don't get it.

Again - you keep saying "stop speaking of our life accomplishments". I didn't type that nor am I implying that.

What I'm saying is that your accomplishments should not be a weapon. They should not be used to hurt, to make someone feel inadequate or as a piece of leverage on EITHER side. I would NEVER be with a man who ever said to me "I make more than you so we're doing this my way". EVER. A man is no different.

Your accomplishments should inspire and should motivate.

I just deleted a bunch of other stuff I typed, because honestly, I think you understand exactly what I'm saying. Reducing a man solely to what he is able to bring home in a paycheck means you no longer respect his non-monetary qualities. What's the point of beign with someone you don't respect.

If a woman feels like said dude isn't pulling his weight, she shouldn't be with him. If a woman makes the conscious decision to date and mate with a man she views as "less than" she negates her ability to throw his "less than" status in his face because SHE CHOSE HIM.

But realize, no one mentioned using accomplishments as a weapon before you did. Life is about constant improvement and I don't see anything wrong with someone making a change if they are not finding the relationship/mate that best suits them. My original argument was that BW should not seek to change themselves in order to fix a BM's problem - if dating outside one's race, having no loyalty to BW - is considered a problem. Cause I doubt many BM think it is a problem. They are happy and we should find a way to be happy, whether it's with a BM or not.

 

[mischka]

I don't understand what could be more important or rewarding than a happy healthy, supportive relationship.

Wow, really? This is so interesting to read because for me personally, having a relationship with a man is like six or possibly even lower on my list of most important active goals. It's interesting to think that for some women it is their primary priority, or that most things in their life are geared specifically toward achieving this goal.

This is obviously very relevant to your opinions on the matter because you seem to disregard the pursuit of education or career success as being important to or even necessary to someone's sense of self, pride, and being. You seem to put more weight on being in a relationship when it comes to those things. I think you should remember that not everyone views being in a relationship as the be-all end-all or or the one accomplishment that they should hang their hat on as a marker of how successful or happy they are in life.

I love this conversation, it is so interesting to me, but I have to get off here or I will not get anything else accomplished today

 

[qchelle]

Two questions: How does education directly

I think education is very important in a life-skills context...shoot, I'm a grad student as we speak. But for relationships, its a personal achievement and accomplishment. Nothing more. contribute to a healthy relationship? I can think of many ways education can indirectly contribute to a foundation for a healthy relationship.

Regarding the need for self-improvement - our "independent" act isn't fooling anyone. We're financially independent and emotionally scarred. Our reaction to the myraid of articles about black women's beauty, well being and health is direct proof of that. Shoot...we felt the need to talk about whether or not "Mixed Chicks" products was an attempt at degrading black women.

It's because we interpret the need for self-improvement as an attack and an assault. We see it as a backhanded way of saying that black women are damaged goods when we are not.

The only way we become damaged goods is if we refuse to first acknowledge that we can stand to be better, and then do something about it.

Ohhhh I thought we were talking about overall self-improvement...in which case factoring in education would make sense. I didn't realize we were only talking about how to keep a man Ok, never mind then.

 

[Syrah]

this is only a threat when you are with someone who isn't on the same level as you. it's revealing that this should even be considered general advice, which implies that black women are resigned to or regularly date men who, as a rule, have and are expected to have fewer accomplishments

I disagree.

Threat is measured by the intent of the one who takes action, not the one to whom the action is intended.

If you say it intending to compare worth and assert leverage, its using your accomplishments to hurt someone else. Whether or not HE is actually intimidated by what you say depends on the man and has nothing to do with his accomplishments.

Agree that the above scenario depends on who you choose to date...

 

[snillohsss]

under what circumstances is it 'possible' aka excusable for a man not to take responsibility for his child? after all, said child would not exist without the man's active participation ipso facto both parties bear equal responsibility, not 'the woman should be responsible for not only her part but his part too.'

i think it's really backwards to say the blame for a man doing or not doing something is on a woman, instead of the man who makes those choices himself that's hilarious, like, that's crazy talk in my opinion, i can't do anything but laugh at that the choices somebody makes ARE FIRST AND PRIMARILY THE RESPONSIBILITY OR FAULT OF THAT PERSON, and can only, by definition, secondarily be the fault of an external person

i think it's funny that for someone that wants to 'fix' the problems in the black community, you appear to bear many opinions and philosophies that help contribute to the whole problem of the irresponsible black man-child that causes most of these issues. i'm not surprised though because ironically this is usually the case. like chris rock said, i feel sorry for the women who have to choose a husband from this bunch

Let me take a different approach with you because you're not hearing me at all.

Let me ask you a question, if a father leaves his daughters life, what steps should the mother take in order to ensure (as much ad she can) that her daughter grows up with a positive view towards men?

 

[qchelle]

Wow, really? This is so interesting to read because for me personally, having a relationship with a man is like six or possibly even lower on my list of most important active goals. It's interesting to think that for some women it is their primary priority, or that most things in their life are geared specifically toward achieving this goal.

This is obviously very relevant to your opinions on the matter because you seem to disregard the pursuit of education or career success as being important to or even necessary to someone's sense of self, pride, and being. You seem to put more weight on being in a relationship when it comes to those things. I think you should remember that not everyone views being in a relationship as the be-all end-all or or the one accomplishment that they should hang their hat on as a marker of how successful or happy they are in life.

I love this conversation, it is so interesting to me, but I have to get off here or I will not get anything else accomplished today

Yes! This is essentially what I just responded with! I didn't know we were talking about just formulating romantic relationships with BM. I just assumed the conversation had evolved when people starting talking about 'self improvement' my bad homies.

 

[Syrah]

Wow, really? This is so interesting to read because for me personally, having a relationship with a man is like six or possibly even lower on my list of most important active goals. It's interesting to think that for some women it is their primary priority, or that most things in their life are geared specifically toward achieving this goal.

This is obviously very relevant to your opinions on the matter because you seem to disregard the pursuit of education or career success as being important to or even necessary to someone's sense of self, pride, and being. You seem to put more weight on being in a relationship when it comes to those things. I think you should remember that not everyone views being in a relationship as the be-all end-all or or the one accomplishment that they should hang their hat on as a marker of how successful or happy they are in life.

I love this conversation, it is so interesting to me, but I have to get off here or I will not get anything else accomplished today

I went back and re-read what I typed, and yea...LOL, I think it's gonna derail this thread. I could edit but ehh..maybe it should stick around to lead to more discussion or something.

Good questions:

I don't think that relationships should be the end all be all or the one thing that should be used as a marker to hang their hat on. On the flip side, I will state openly that one of my life's goals is to have a family and be able to travel with the family I hope to have. To do these things, I worked backwards and figured out what it takes to be able to provide that or contribute to the provisions. And as a personal goal it's right up there, on the same level with my education, my entrepreneurial pursuits, my love for travel, being healthy through sport and activity, maintaining a strong relationship with my family/close friends and exploring my own spirituality. I guess I haven't ranked my goals and priorities because they are all interconnected.

I'm a grad student as we speak so yea...based on my original post that would either make me a hypocrite, or someone who went to grad school to find a man. Neither apply.

I might have went to far to make a point - but I just don't understand why our relationships are the one area that we leave so much to chance. We get educations. We get jobs. We are constantly on the quest to improve. We seek other's opinions. We change, we adapt, we perform. We plan travel. We plan for buying a home. Blah blah blah. But relationships - "let it happen". But with relationships, the notion that we need to change, improve and adapt for ourselves is a big .

Its the willingness to change in one area of our lives, but not in others, that I don't understand and that I am questioning.

 

[mischka]

I disagree.

If you say it intending to compare worth and assert leverage, its using your accomplishments to hurt someone else. Whether or not HE is actually intimidated by what you say depends on the man and has nothing to do with his accomplishments.

You disregard the fact that if two people have the same accomplishments, this discussion is not even on the table, which was what my point was. I'm not concerned with being a threat to anyone because I don't plan on dating anyone who is less accomplished than I am. As for your second question, I'm not the best person to be asking because I haven't really done much dating in my adult life up to this point, but yes, once I entered college I have not dated a man who was not also in college, and once I graduated from college, I have not entertained a man who did not also have a college degree, if that's what you meant. Since I have no children, I do not date men with children. Since I do not live with my parents, I do not date men who live with their parents. Dating a man who has the same resume that I do is just my natural approach and I can't see why I would date anyone knowing I would have to make concessions for what are in my opinion unexcuseable shortcomings at this age, so that musing does not really apply to me.

Let me take a different approach with you because you're not hearing me at all.

Let me ask you a question, if a father leaves his daughters life, what steps should the mother take in order to ensure (as much ad she can) that her daughter grows up with a positive view towards men?

Let me ask you a question, why is it a foregone conclusion that the man will leave his daughter's life so that your natural entry point to the discussion is wondering what the woman should or should not do?You skip over what is the crucial step and primary root of the problem and go directly to coping with it.

I might have went to far to make a point - but I just don't understand why our relationships are the one area that we leave so much to chance.

For me, I may 'leave so much to chance' when it comes to relationships, so to speak, because being in a relationship is just NOT one of my primary priorities. It does very little in terms of affecting my self esteem, and it contributes very little to my conception of self-value. I don't base my choices, ambitions, and goals around being in a relationship because it simply is not one of the things that contributes to my well being. The things that enrich me as a person and make me feel happy and accomplished are not related to whether or not I have a man around. My actions do not have the ultimate goal of being in a relationship and that is why I place a higher value on other things, because it is those other things that make me feel fulfilled and happy.

I'm not saying men are worthless and I don't need a man or I don't want a man, but whether I am in a relationship or not does not affect the way I feel about myself.

ok ok i'm leaving for real this time gaaaaaaaaaah

 

[Syrah]

Ohhhh I thought we were talking about overall self-improvement...in which case factoring in education would make sense. I didn't realize we were only talking about how to keep a man Ok, never mind then.

Wait...we are in the relationship forum right? Please do show me where I ever said that the only point of education is to keep a man. I actually said the opposite in the post that you quoted out of context - that one (education) has nothing to do with the other (relationships).

I'm speaking of education in the context of this forum (relationships) and this thread (are black men as loyal to us as we are to them).

Maybe its that I'm not walking around wondering "who is more screwed up - bm or bw? Oh wait...more black women are educated, so black men are worse off" which was the point I was responding to.

 

[Syrah]

You disregard the fact that if two people have the same accomplishments, this discussion is not even on the table, which was what my point was. I'm not concerned with being a threat to anyone because I don't plan on dating anyone who is less accomplished than I am. As for your second question, I'm not the best person to be asking because I haven't really done much dating in my adult life up to this point, but yes, once I entered college I have not dated a man who was not also in college, and once I graduated from college, I have not entertained a man who did not also have a college degree, if that's what you meant. Since I have no children, I do not date men with children. Since I do not live with my parents, I do not date men who live with their parents. Dating a man who has the same resume that I do is just my natural approach and I can't see why I would date anyone knowing I would have to make concessions for what are in my opinion unexcuseable shortcomings at this age, so that musing does not really apply to me.

Amen...

 

[tatiana]

@tatiana, how do you suggest this... I don't have a relationship with either parent... Ahhh, man back into lurkdom, just call me cant get right

AnjelLuvsUBabe (cute screen name)

If you have the money, I would suggest Christian counseling. Counseling can do wonders; you can rant about your life without being judged.

A cheaper alternative, write letter(s) to your mom and seperate letter(s) to your father. Some of Iyanla Vanzant books come to mind.

If possible, find your grandparents or aunts or uncles. Ideally, it should be your grandparents. Family can make you feel a sense of wholeness. Family members can not tell you everything but they can give you some closure. Now you may find out you can not stand your family so try this at your own risk.

 

[LoveisYou]

Not to take away from the very real problems in the black community but I do believe there are a lot of black ppl who really don't need fixing. They are well-adjusted and are doing as well as your average well-adjusted human beings. I think that because we have a history of subjugation we sometimes mistakenly assume that something must be wrong with us. A whole is made up of the sum of it's parts and some of those parts aren't defective. While I fully support self-improvement, I think it's dangerous to always assume that something is wrong with us. Sometimes circumstances are outside of our control.

 

[snillohsss]

Let me ask you a question, why is it a foregone conclusion that the man will leave his daughter's life so that your natural entry point to the discussion is wondering what the woman should or should not do?You skip over what is the crucial step and primary root of the problem and go directly to coping with it.

I didn't skip over anything. I was responding to a poster that stated that in some cases it isn't possible for a daughter to connect with her Father (I.e. When the father isn't in her life)

So I answered your question, can you answer mine? What do you propose a single mother do to ensure her daughter grows up with a positive view towards men?

 

[MD_Lady]

IMO, men across racial groups just aren't taught to hold women in as high of an esteem as we are them (and I think another poster made a similar point in an earlier post). While we focus more on BM's tendency to do this because most of us are black, IMO/E women (as a group) are MUCH more likely to demonstrate "loyalty" to men than the other way around (ESPECIALLY if doing so goes against one's best interest).

My short answer to the original question (keeping in mind that the key phrase is "as a group") is no. But, while there is undeniable misogyny in the black community (that is tolerated and perpetuated by both men and women), I think BW being too supportive of undeserving BM has a LOT to do with the imbalance. The fact of the matter is that many BW (IME) rush to support BM (as a group and regardless of whether they deserve it as individuals) because of they are trying to counterbalance the perceived lack of support from others. I think BW would do themselves a world of good if they stopped over what BM don't do and be more selective when it comes to dispensing loyalty.

 

[Katherina]

Two questions: How does education directly contribute to a healthy relationship? I can think of many ways education can indirectly contribute to a foundation for a healthy relationship.

I think education is very important in a life-skills context...shoot, I'm a grad student as we speak. But for relationships, its a personal achievement and accomplishment. Nothing more.

Regarding the need for self-improvement - our "independent" act isn't fooling anyone. We're financially independent and emotionally scarred. Our reaction to the myraid of articles about black women's beauty, well being and health is direct proof of that. Shoot...we felt the need to talk about whether or not "Mixed Chicks" products was an attempt at degrading black women.

It's because we interpret the need for self-improvement as an attack and an assault. We see it as a backhanded way of saying that black women are damanged goods when we are not.

The only way we become damaged goods is if we refuse to first acknowledge that we can stand to be better, and then do something about it.

I agree with this entire comment, especially the bolded. Sensible, accomplished men desire a woman's intangible traits.

 

[MD_Lady]

Not to take away from the very real problems in the black community but I do believe there are a lot of black ppl who really don't need fixing. They are well-adjusted and are doing as well as your average well-adjusted human beings. I think that because we have a history of subjugation we sometimes mistakenly assume that something must be wrong with us. A whole is made up of the sum of it's parts and some of those parts aren't defective. While I fully support self-improvement, I think it's dangerous to always assume that something is wrong with us. Sometimes circumstances are outside of our control.

Thank you. IMO, well-adjusted people should focus their energy on seeking out other well-adjusted people and only look to establish relationships (whether we're talking about friendships, marriages, or LTRs) with those people. Again, IMO, time spent dissecting the motives behind the actions of others and/or trying to change them is time wasted. At some point, you have to commit yourself to being the best person you can be, respecting others as individuals, and limiting yourself to associating with like-minded people who are committed to doing the same.

 

[Thiends]

Please...for the love of green bottoms, stop derailing this thread!

@snilloh: Are you feeling ok there? Feel free not to think you can ever police me.

 

[Thiends]

This board confuses me.

One day, we worship the Black kangs and the next day we don't have enough faith in them or worship them enough.

@MzLady78: Good point.

Girl, please. You know you one of those black women who ALWAYS throwing their degrees up in a black man's face. Miss Independent, "I don't need no man!" You think you too good, don't you? I bet you like white men too.

@BEAUTYU2U: You forgot "neck-rolling", "obese", "emasculating", and "aggressive". Girl, you need to up your stereotyping game!

So what do black women in general need to fix that will make bm loyal to us?

Again, so what are the issues that black women need to work on?

@lushcoils: Does everything have to be spelled out for you degree-having, feminazi, emasculating, stuck-up fe-mayles?! Just resolve to be more like @snilloh in 2011, ok? Dang!

 

[snillohsss]

@snilloh: Are you feeling ok there? Feel free not to think you can ever police me.

Thiends You are determined to derail the thread with needless foolishness eh? I won't let you have it in this thread so I will ignore you for the sake of this discussion.

 

[LoveisYou]

I have a bone to pick with the person who moved this thread to the relationship forum, lol

My definition of loyalty included behaviors that weren't limited to intimate relationships, why is the thread even here?

 

[ctosha]

To put it simply: NOPE!!! I was here March 29, 2011!!!

 

[LoveisYou]

Someone brought up something about the media, I think it was SD, since this thread is based on an assumption, not facts, do you think some of our ideas about black men and black women are somewhat exaggerated? I think the media does a great job of perpetrating certain assumptions/ideologies and I also think ppl with negative viewpoints about black men, women, relationships etc. get more attention. However, in your personal interactions are these assumptions true?

 

[Thiends]

@Thiends You are determined to derail the thread with needless foolishness eh? I won't let you have it in this thread so I will ignore you for the sake of this discussion.

snilloh: Clearly, something has you mad.

 

[BEAUTYU2U]

Oh snap! This thread is still open for business? But for real though ... why did I go to class and we - in a round a bout way - end up talking about this exact thing?

 

[Syrah]

Oh snap! This thread is still open for business? But for real though ... why did I go to class and we - in a round a bout way - end up talking about this exact thing?

I can be with the "folks" studying or interview prepping and somehow relationships will creep into the conversation. Its on folks minds. And it isn't just us because the brothas are asking questions too...

And it doesn't have to be a negative conversation. We just need to figure out a way where we can meet in the middle...

(off to finish a paper I should've started two weeks ago)

 

[Syrah]

I'd date that and I'm completely straight Just because you have great accomplishments doesn't automatically mean that you "parade and defend" them to a man.

I agree that it's wrong to make a man feel like you don't need him... at the end of the day humans are animals and the male instinct is to provide... however, I don't think that translates to a woman having to be ashamed of being proud of her accomplishments.

Who said anything about shame or avoiding pride?

Ya'll are a trip sometimes.