Are You Against Shotgun Weddings?

[barbiesocialite]

But the women who does this are called what

Wait let me guess

Smart , Lucky, Sane? or even better in love or maybe they have great character and great poise and was so incredibly lucky to have come up with such a well thought out plan for their life. We should call them SUPER WOMEN because they have it all.

Maybe we should start teaching this thought process in schools to little girls as young as 5 we can teach them to take good care of their hair and how to snag a good ole good ole ripe man thats just ready to be taken advantage of yes indeed. I can just see the message dont just lay down and have unprotected sex have unprotected sex with a back up plan to trap that man and make him marry you thats you key to happiness yes indeed.

Well I spent most of my life in a 2-parent home and most of the couples in my family and all of my friends parents are married. I'm not trying to become acquainted with the single-parent lifestyle so many black women seem to become accustomed to as the norm. Doin it by yourself is not the way. I will not be advocating unprotected sex or OOW in my household. I will be encouraging my children to get married, only date those from married households and raise their children in 2-parent homes just as they were. At the same time, some people insist on having rawdawg sex while unmarried despite the consequences, so I'll pick shotgun any day over single-parent. If they don't want a shotgun, I'd advise them to "fix-it" and let that be that.....*shrugs*

 

[ladysaraii]

I thank the Lord almighty that I didn't rush into an marriage and that my parents did not rush me into one. My son's dad and I are very capable co-parents and I was able to focus on my goals and dreams instead of a marriage with someone who I was not compatible with.

To those who keep saying in multiple threads that they don't understand how someone can have a baby and not be ready for marriage....I don't understand why it's so difficult for people to understand the basic concept that most people have had sex with someone that they don't or may not want to be married to and that sex may have led to a baby. Unless every person posting that they "don't understand" has had sex only with her husband or is celibate, I don't see how you can't grasp this concept. It is very good that you effectively used birth control or condoms, but count yourself blessed, lucky, or whatever. You, too, could have gotten pregnant by someone other than your current spouse.

Back on topic, I think if both people want to be married, it's good to try, but, in general, I am against shotgun marriages.

Yea see I don't get that.

I don't understand unmarried folks having "accidental" babies either.....

Agreed iwth barbie. I erally dont think its thatdifficult to not get pregnant if you are honestly and correctly (key words there) using BC. I dont think its luck at all.

 

[Mis007]

While I do have deep respect for the institution of marriage, I think folks are giving more significance and power to marriage than it deserves. Children do better in stable two parent homes not because of the marriage certificate, but because parents in those arrangements are usually people who are stable, have common sense, and are willing and able to do whatever it takes to do the right thing for their kids.

It's a myth that kids of divorce are doomed to suffer. If the parents are able to put aside the childishness, bitterness and other negative emotions for the best interest of the children, then there is no reason why those children will be damaged by a divorce. The same goes for single parents raising a child apart, as well as for the parents who have no choice but to raise a child on their own.

Marital status IMO is *never* a proxy for good parenting. It's also not a proxy for love, respect, and all of the positives that we associate with marriage. If a marriage is not built on a solid foundation of love, respect, trust, mutual admiration, etc., then it's not worth the paper it's written on.

I think it is better for a child to be raised by a single parent or parents who are loving, mature, and effective than by a two married fools who don't have a clue.

Interesting, I think you make somewhat of a point. but I believe children would prefer a traditional family with married parents. I also find the misconception between a marriage being "just a piece a paper" quite crass !

 

[barbiesocialite]

Agreed iwth barbie. I erally dont think its thatdifficult to not get pregnant if you are honestly and correctly (key words there) using BC. I dont think its luck at all.

In middle-school when they teach you about the bids & the bees in sex ed they tell you babies are made through having sex.

Idk, maybe it's me, but I naturally assume that regardless of precautionary measures that when I have sex there is a slight change a baby can come out of it. That said, that's why I've never had unprotected sex. That's why I'm not ready to have sex in my current relationship. I don't believe in BC for myself other than condoms and my SO knows (bc we discussed it many times) that having sex can produce an accident (i.e. condom breaking) so knocking me up would naturally means it's time to plan a wedding. We ain't ready for all that

 

[ladysaraii]

In middle-school when they teach you about the bids & the bees in sex ed they tell you babies are made through having sex.

Idk, maybe it's me, but I naturally assume that regardless of precautionary measures that when I have sex there is a slight change a baby can come out of it. That said, that's why I've never had unprotected sex. That's why I'm not ready to have sex in my current relationship. I don't believe in BC for myself other than condoms and my SO knows (bc we discussed it many times) that having sex can produce an accident (i.e. condom breaking) so knocking me up would naturally means it's time to plan a wedding. We ain't ready for all that

Slight chance sure. And I get the point that nothing except abstinence is foolproof, but all these oops babies arent the result of BC gone wrong. Thats my only point

 

[Mis007]

You're making an assumption here that the guy is a bad guy. The two people might simply be incompatible, not necessarily that the man was abusive, or a cheater, or whatever. I did not want to be married (on top of being too young) and still do not want to be married; it would have made no difference whether he was Prince Charming or not.

I agree that men and women should not sleep with people they don't want to be married to, but that is simply not the reality of the world that we live in.

I

And that's your business and no one has to right to butt in and put their two cents in, especially when it's not helpful !!!

 

[PinkyRang]

Right!

I for the life of me never understood this concept. I am absolutely terrified to have a child with the wrong man. I am, however less scared of marrying the wrong man. Having a child with someone is the BIGGEST commitment of all time to me

ITA

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[aribell]

Maybe this is slightly OT, but I think a lot of these women do get pregnant on purpose. Or at the very least, she thinks in the back of her mind that things wouldn't be so bad if she were. I say that because I'm thinking of a situation with two young attorneys, where the girl was more into the guy than vice versa. By all external measures, the girl had so much going for her and is attractive, so it's not like she couldn't get someone. She winds up pregnant oow and keeps the baby. They're doing the whole single co-parent thing, and if there were ever a situation that called for a shotgun, I would think that would be the easiest one to manage. You were already friends, clearly attracted to one another if not "in love", you're educated, stable, etc. It seems that people just don't want to do it. I really do take issue with men who impregnante women and then refuse to marry them...even though in this case I think she probably wanted that to happen. I can't think that she'd risk the embarassment otherwise.

There are two other situations that also need shotguns. People together for 3-5 years, on again, off again. In all of the situations I've seen, the lack of a marriage seems to be largely based on the man not wanting to commit permanently to that woman. They're still looking for the woman they "really" want to be with. I don't know that it's more complicated than that.

And then, you can have moms trying to "protect" their sons from a bad marriage. One such mom I spoke with told me how she told her son's girlfriend upfront that in the event of a baby, "there will be no marriage." I guess she thought she was putting any tricky ideas out of the girl's head, but then basically took any sense of duty off of her son's shoulders by saying that.

 

[danniegirl]

Well I spent most of my life in a 2-parent home and most of the couples in my family and all of my friends parents are married. I'm not trying to become acquainted with the single-parent lifestyle so many black women seem to become accustomed to as the norm. Doin it by yourself is not the way. I will not be advocating unprotected sex or OOW in my household. I will be encouraging my children to get married, only date those from married households and raise their children in 2-parent homes just as they were. At the same time, some people insist on having rawdawg sex while unmarried despite the consequences, so I'll pick shotgun any day over single-parent. If they don't want a shotgun, I'd advise them to "fix-it" and let that be that.....*shrugs*

i had a well thought out response that i lost on my to lunch

Anywho i personally think your PERSONAL choices in life are great and are suiting for you and may very well go along with all your PERSONAL morals and values. I just dont believe in any sort of utopia i dont think on way of living and loving is idealistic for everyone and that is the only reason why i may lightly mock and disagree with a situation that stands to reason that there is just way sure fire way to be happy and productive in life. For me shot gun weddings would just be reinforcing someones ideas that their is only one way to live your life or to even have a life and there is only one road that guarantees success in life and if we take a real hard look around that idea is far from the truth.

 

[SelahOco]

I disagree with this.

Even if those things aren't going on, if there's animosity/hostility between the parents, the kids will pick up on this and be affected by it. I'm speaking from experience.

If I get married, I will try my best to make it work, as long as those things you mentioned aren't factors. But if it's not working, I'm not doing that "staying together for the sake of the kids" stuff, sorry.

I remember a thread we had about whether or not peoples moms married the right man. There were tons of answers where people wished their parents were not together. I don't come from a 2 parent household so I can't imagine that feeling....but the thread was really interesting.

 

[MzLady78]

I remember a thread we had about whether or not peoples moms married the right man. There were tons of answers where people wished their parents were not together. I don't come from a 2 parent household so I can't imagine that feeling....but the thread was really interesting.

My parents were married for 20+ years and I remember it being very tumultuous at times. I can't say I ever recall feeling like they were really all that happy together. Their personalities are so different, I honestly don't know how they lasted as long as they did. My father was also a bit abusive towards me, something that not a lot of people know.

That being said, I get why people are so adamant about 2 parent households, but I just don't think it guarantees anything. My father essentially acted like he didn't have children years after he and my mom divorced, and even though we've kind of reconciled, our relationship will never be what it should have been. Some of the best, most hands-on, do anything and everything for their children fathers I know were never even in real relationships with the mothers. And yes, I get that they are probably the exception and not the rule. I just say all of this to say that one size does not fit all, IMO. Being married and raising your children together is great, but I think what's more important is the type of relationship the parents have with each other and the one they have with the kids.

 

[TayMac]

I'm certainly not against since I'm having one my dang self.
Do we really need to wait a year or two so people don't whisper about our reason for getting married?

My grandparents had one and were married over 50yrs until grandma passed.

Some marriages work some don't.



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[JayAnn0513]

I'm certainly not against since I'm having one my dang self.
Do we really need to wait a year or two so people don't whisper about our reason for getting married?

My grandparents had one and were married over 50yrs until grandma passed.

Some marriages work some don't.



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They 'll whisper either way.

 

[Solitude]

This thread is starting to merge with all of the others on this topic, so I'll spare repeating what I have said over and over again already.

In response to a couple of people that quoted me...again, feel free to pat yourself on the back for effectively using birth control and condoms, but stop acting like your husband is the only person you ever spread your legs to.

 

[Mortons]

This thread is starting to merge with all of the others on this topic, so I'll spare repeating what I have said over and over again already.

In response to a couple of people that quoted me...again, feel free to pat yourself on the back for effectively using birth control and condoms, but stop acting like your husband is the only person you ever spread your legs to.

What does that have to do with a shot gun wedding?

 

[Syrah]

i had a well thought out response that i lost on my to lunch

Anywho i personally think your PERSONAL choices in life are great and are suiting for you and may very well go along with all your PERSONAL morals and values. I just dont believe in any sort of utopia i dont think on way of living and loving is idealistic for everyone and that is the only reason why i may lightly mock and disagree with a situation that stands to reason that there is just way sure fire way to be happy and productive in life. For me shot gun weddings would just be reinforcing someones ideas that their is only one way to live your life or to even have a life and there is only one road that guarantees success in life and if we take a real hard look around that idea is far from the truth.

Being married does not automatically make people more responsible. And two unmarried people aren't automatically destined for irresponsibility.

For me, shotgun weddings are about expectations and responsibility. I was raised with expectations, not only told to me, but shown to me through my parents, their friends and my family members. "This is who you are, this is where you come from, this is what we expect of you."

Expectations: In my current family, being a mother and not a wife isn't an acceptable equation. And I hope to raise my children with the same notion. Should you choose to become or make someone a mother, you are also choosing to become a wife/husband. Which leads to...

Responsibility: If you're not ready to become a wife/husband, maybe you'll think a bit more about the possibility of becoming a mother/father and who you are sexing.

I've slept with people who looking back, would have made awful fathers and husbands. Now? Nope. If I'm going to spread my legs, trust that I've thought at least a second about what it'd be like spending the rest of my life tied to dude in someway shape or form.

 

[caltron]

Interesting, I think you make somewhat of a point. but I believe children would prefer a traditional family with married parents. I also find the misconception between a marriage being "just a piece a paper" quite crass !

That is definitely not the point I was getting across, and I kind of knew it would get miscontrued when I wrote it. What I was trying to say is that in a "real" marriage, you have love, trust, etc. In my world, just because two people have the "paper" does not make it "real". I agree that the "paper" needs to be there too, but that is not enough for it to be a "marriage" for my purposes even if that is sufficient for legal purposes.

So pretty much I agree with you that marriage is not just a piece of paper. But what I don't agree with is when people assume that any relationship that has that "paper" is on the same level as a true marriage.

 

[yardyspice]

What does that have to do with a shot gun wedding?

Because for some in our community, marriage is ascribed unicorn status that only the pure, chaste, and that person's version of the perfect black person (LSLH, UE, etc.) can achieve. I wish we would stop that.

 

[Mis007]

This thread is starting to merge with all of the others on this topic, so I'll spare repeating what I have said over and over again already.

In response to a couple of people that quoted me...again, feel free to pat yourself on the back for effectively using birth control and condoms, but stop acting like your husband is the only person you ever spread your legs to.

No, but the only one that I have children with (ex by the way) !!!

 

[caltron]

I think the main issue here is that if the two people are so immature and foolish that they would create a terrible home for the child, then they aren't going to be able to work with one another to raise the child separately either. I don't think that single parenting is the answer to immaturity.

The whole concept of the shotgun wedding is that it forces people (namely the men) to "grow up" and get it together when they would otherwise have no inclination to do so. (hence, the shotgun).



Yeah...wouldn't try that one nowadays. Even a pastor I heard was saying the same thing recently...that women trying to "trap" a man doesn't even work anymore.

And that is where I disagree. I don't think the fact that a person was forced into a marriage causes them to grow up or love someone they don't love. There may be cases where a man loves a woman, but maybe hasn't yet put serious thought into getting hitched, and maybe in those cases it works. Or maybe the man is immature and needed some time. But as someone posted above, some things can't be forced.

To me, that is just like saying that if you marry a cheater, they will "grow up" and change their cheating ways because just because he got married. I think people are going to be the same people after they marry as before they marry, so it's a huge mistake to assume someone is going to change because of that paper.

 

[barbiesocialite]

I remember a thread we had about whether or not peoples moms married the right man. There were tons of answers where people wished their parents were not together. I don't come from a 2 parent household so I can't imagine that feeling....but the thread was really interesting.

SelahOco
I used to be one of those people---that is until I spent time on the other side of the fence. I'm glad my parents were married as long as they were and I didnt grow up like my brothers without my dad in my home for most of my life. TBH, I think I'd have a whole lot more bad experiences with men, emotional baggage and a problem with selecting men had they not tried to make it work. Fathers, no matter how imperfect, are needed in the household for a reason. After age and experience, I find this to be 100% true. I've said this before, there is a lesser of the two evils. I'd take bickering arguing parents over a single mother any day. I don't like what either one of my parents turned into as individuals, I say that while at the same time admitting they were good parents that did their best. I'm never doing to my children what my parents did to me and my brothers, NO WAY.

 

[Solitude]

Agreed iwth barbie. I erally dont think its thatdifficult to not get pregnant if you are honestly and correctly (key words there) using BC. I dont think its luck at all.

Considering that I have not had a child in almost a decade, I would agree with you that prevention is very possible; I was just marveling at people who were not virgins at the moment they married acting like it was impossible for them to ever have been in the same situation when no method except abstinence is full-proof. If a person is celibate, I'm not directing my comment at her.

I’m unmarried, double-degree, and raising a happy, healthy, well-developed child who is performing academically at the top of his class and has a sound moral compass. Maybe I’m the lucky one because (most...actually none) of my friends and church members who were forced into marriages have not accomplished nearly as much as I have and some of their children have all kinds of issues…health issues, behavioral issues, etc. that my child does not have, thankfully.

ETA: I will say that I know a few well-adjusted couples that married because the woman was pregnant, but neither of them was able to finish their degrees. And again...all of the people I know who were young and are divorced only married due to pregnancy. (I was speaking personally, but see Exhibit A, Solange Knowles)

 

[Mis007]

That is definitely not the point I was getting across, and I kind of knew it would get miscontrued when I wrote it. What I was trying to say is that in a "real" marriage, you have love, trust, etc. In my world, just because two people have the "paper" does not make it "real". I agree that the "paper" needs to be there too, but that is not enough for it to be a "marriage" for my purposes even if that is sufficient for legal purposes.

So pretty much I agree with you that marriage is not just a piece of paper. But what I don't agree with is when people assume that any relationship that has that "paper" is on the same level as a true marriage.

 

[Syrah]

Because for some in our community, marriage is ascribed unicorn status that only the pure, chaste, and that person's version of the perfect black person (LSLH, UE, etc.) can achieve. I wish we would stop that.

I feel like people my age seem to have perceptions of marriage that are on one of two extremes - complete perfection (Cosby's) or complete end of all things worth living for. Its funny and sad at the same time...

 

[moda]

I don't even know where to begin with this because I disagree with the concept of a shotgun wedding on so many levels.

I shudder to think what would happen to institution of marriage if every single couple out there these days who conceived a child got married. I can not see any good coming out of seeing the folks on Maury and Jerry Springer getting married. Total trainwreck. I don't think it's surprising that the divorce rate is going down as women are finding it more acceptable to have children out of wedlock.

While I do have deep respect for the institution of marriage, I think folks are giving more significance and power to marriage than it deserves. Children do better in stable two parent homes not because of the marriage certificate, but because parents in those arrangements are usually people who are stable, have common sense, and are willing and able to do whatever it takes to do the right thing for their kids.

It's a myth that kids of divorce are doomed to suffer. If the parents are able to put aside the childishness, bitterness and other negative emotions for the best interest of the children, then there is no reason why those children will be damaged by a divorce. The same goes for single parents raising a child apart, as well as for the parents who have no choice but to raise a child on their own.

Marital status IMO is *never* a proxy for good parenting. It's also not a proxy for love, respect, and all of the positives that we associate with marriage. If a marriage is not built on a solid foundation of love, respect, trust, mutual admiration, etc., then it's not worth the paper it's written on.

I think it is better for a child to be raised by a single parent or parents who are loving, mature, and effective than by a two married fools who don't have a clue.

@ 1st bolded – If the people on Maury and Jerry got married maybe, just maybe those shows would cease to exist. You see it as a total trainwreck for them to get married, I see it as a trainweck that they are parents.

@ 2nd bolded whether these two fools are unmarried or married they are still two fools right? At least trying to make their relationship work for the sake of the child could be a much better outcome IMO.

If we looked at the "institution" of child rearing with as much disdain as we did the "institution" of marriage our community would be in a much better place.

Yes there are plenty of successful single parents but I know a heck of a lot more unsuccessful ones.

 

[NOEChic]

Exactly. I'm not even going to pretend that everyone I know that's married did it the "right" way. I know a lot of women that got pregnant to snag a good husband. My mother, my paternal grandmother, one aunt, 2 cousins, and out of 4 ex-boyfriends--all of them were excellent catches-- 2 of them married a gf because they knocked her up <-9 & 7 years later they are still married. It is what it is. I don't judge shotgun weddings AT ALL.

so now this is the thought process

let me run out get pg so i can keep me a good ole man yes sir im gonna snag me a ripe one yes indeed

It only works with men who aren't kangs (in character and familial background) and since so many women seem so fond of kangs these days, getting pregnant out of wedlock is like playing Russian Roulette and won't work because the man was never the marrying type in the first place....

So basically your family are quains and plotted on the next dude to get pregnant so that he would "do the right thing" and marry them? Where they poking holes in condoms or lying about being on BC or taking the sperm out of the condoms and fertilizing their eggs

 

[barbiesocialite]

So basically your family are quains and plotted on the next dude to get pregnant so that he would "do the right thing" and marry them? Where they poking holes in condoms or lying about being on BC or taking the sperm out of the condoms and fertilizing their eggs

People can call them Quains all day, they are married women not permanent baby mamas with a husband that takes them on regular vacations and where all their children have the same father that put them in the house with the picket fence and paid to send all their children to private school.

If that's a Quain, I'll take it

 

[NOEChic]

Doubtful. There is a reason why I've always been told to date men only from two-parent homes (btw, not all of these were ideal 2-parent homes).

IME, the only way these couples are breaking up is if the woman wants out. From the way my exes were with me, they will hang in there if they feel obligated or responsible. They are the man-up kind so I doubt they'll leave their wives any time soon. My grandparents have been together since they were 15. Both of my aunts are still married and their kids are grown. And my father refuses to give my mother a divorce and she left him 10 years ago.

I would not want someone to stay with/married to me because they feel obligated or responsible. I want them to stay because the love me.

 

[NOEChic]

People can call them Quains all day, they are married women not permanent baby mamas with a husband that takes them on regular vacations and where all their children have the same father that put them in the house with the picket fence and paid to send all their children to private school.

If that's a Quain, I'll take it

They were manipulative women you forced a man to marry them. I call that a Quain.

 

[Mortons]

I would not want someone to stay with/married to me because they feel obligated or responsible. I want them to stay because the love me.

Loves largest element is responsibility.