Why does it seem to take a lot of American Black men longer to get married?

[jeanghrey]

Well not to be all doom and gloom but at this point in life I've accepted that I may never be "married", partly because of my own issues (sour experience w/ last LTR) and partly because the quality of husband material overall is just piss poor. I declared this year to be my year of selfishness "it's all about me" and so far having a blast. Can't stopping living my life over this nonsense. The irony is I'm getting more attention from men now that I have in a long time, but I have zero interest in starting anything.

 

[CurlyMoo]

MAXWELL DEMILLE'S CICADA CLUB

It's in downtown LA in the Oviatt Building. It is BEAUTIFUL!

As you can see, they do blues, jazz and swing. All Black American music but not a Black face in sight except me and my friend.

And it should be loaded with Black folks. Watch any Latin performer give a concert and the place will be packed with Latinos. They appreciate and support their music. Now given it has a distinct African background and the Black Lation's will support it.

 

[CurlyMoo]

As a 32 year old woman who is definitely concerned about her eggs expiring, I agree that this plays a part. Some women get to the point where a piece of a man is better than no man at all. And I can't lie, I've been there myself, unfortunately. I've just never brought kids into the situation.

You have time..........

 

[RossBoss]

And it should be loaded with Black folks. Watch any Latin performer give a concert and the place will be packed with Latinos. They appreciate and support their music. Now given it has a distinct African background and the Black Lation's will support it.

White people run the Cicada Club. The building used to house a haberdasher back in the 1920s through to the 1960s. Now these folks use it as a lounge with a live jazz band a couple of times a month. I just know of one Black performer that has performed there, it's not that they're keeping us out, it's just lack of interest from us. How many Black folks you know want to dress up a la Josephine Baker, Billie Holliday or Cab Calloway and go out to hear old time jazz, blues and swing? Not many right?

 

[Highly Favored8]

I stopped telling myself men ain't ish, there are no available men left, all the good ones are taken, etc. I stopped listening to sad, depressing break up songs and started listening to songs where the men were professing their love for a woman. I stopped reading and listening to negative stats and horrible break up stories. More importantly, I stopped telling my own.

I stopped being ashamed of the fact that I wanted to get married. Wanting to be married doesn't make me desperate or dependent. It's rather silly now that I think about women like Michelle, Jada, Beyonce, Hilary, etc. They are still strong and doing their own thing. So are many of the women I know who are married IRL. I want a friend, lover, and partner in life.

I started visiting positive threads and articles about relationships. I started going to bridals websites and visiting the pages of fb friends who were in happy relationships. I would look at wedding pictures on various websites (photography, resort websites, etc). Basically, I just started focusing my attention elsewhere. I still slip from time to time but I am much happier.

ITA with your post. Let's Get It in 2011!!!!

 

[iCandyc]

I think its simply b/c they don't see it so it's not normal for them. I grew up in a 2 parent household so anything other is abnormal to me, however many bm come from broken homes nd so that's what they are used to so they continue the cycle. Many of the few BM who do marry have/had parents who were married and set the example for them. At least that's my opinion. I know quite a few women who say they will not date men from broken homes for that very reason and I can't say I don't agree. I know a guy who was with his gf for like 6 yrs so of course in her mind it was time but he wasn't having it. He told her he wanted her to have his kids first THEN they could get married ::side eye::. I also agree whit BW not demanding it! I have a friend who's been with her man 8-10 yrs now and he doesn't wana hear the marriage talk but last yr they were ttc... WHY?

 

[MzLady78]

You have time..........

Yeah, if I wanna pull a Halle and have my first kid at 40, which is definitely not my preference!

 

[chocolat79]

Wow...without having read EVERY response to the OP's question, I can't help but think a lot of the responses are negative biases based on poor past experiences.

Different take - I think American MEN in general are waiting to get married and I think a lot of this has to do with education and career pursuits. And frankly, I don't knock it. Studies show that the more education a person receives the more likely their marriage is to succeed. If that's the case, and the studies hold true for the black community, then I say more men should wait until they're ready.

I don't knock a man for postponing a commitment until he's ready to commit.

I agree with some of this, but I'm not talking about guys waiting until they're 30 or 31...I'm talking about men in their 40's+ not wanting to get married or still playing around. Also, I've seen PLENTY WM and other American men all settled in and snuggled up tight by the time they're 30 or 35. Plus, I think it's a building process. Who says wait until you have your career in exactly the right state to start thinking about marriage? And that may or may not be true of the black community because the divorce rate is ridiculous, even with men waiting, so I'm not sure I can actually co-sign on that, specifically with BM.

Also, let's face it, 40 is middle-aged, IF you live to 80. So, I'm not feeling that at all...then these dudes are MAD desperate at 50 trying to find someone because they don't want to die alone. GTHOHWTBS! (not you Syrah)....I just saying.

 

[MzLady78]

Wow...without having read EVERY response to the OP's question, I can't help but think a lot of the responses are negative biases based on poor past experiences.

Different take - I think American MEN in general are waiting to get married and I think a lot of this has to do with education and career pursuits. And frankly, I don't knock it. Studies show that the more education a person receives the more likely their marriage is to succeed. If that's the case, and the studies hold true for the black community, then I say more men should wait until they're ready.

I don't knock a man for postponing a commitment until he's ready to commit.

Considering how many BM don't go to college, and how many work blue collar jobs or jobs that otherwise don't require much education, do you really think that's the case in most instances?

I agree, I'd rather a man not commit until he's ready. But don't go around making babies and wasting years of a woman's life while you're waiting for the time to come.

 

[Britt]

I find that the black men who do want to get married aren't necessarily ready when we are. We may be ready from late 20s to early 30s, but many of them aren't. Even if they are ready mentally and emotionally, their finances aren't exactly in order. In order, I don't mean making 6 figures and balling, I mean - they may still be living at home or struggling on their own. They are not really in a predicament to combine finances and know they are to provide and help their wife. I'm not saying these men don't exist, but I think it's more commonplace to find a Black woman that has a decent job, can hold her own, live on her own comfortably from her late 20s onwards than it is to find a Black man that can do so w/ the same comfort she can.
Also, add to the fact that many of them aren't emotionally mature enough to be a husband at this age, whereas women are. I can't even blame it on a particular 'type' of man either. B/c I know of a very straightlaced, nerdy, intellectual, well educated soon to be 30 year old - he's been w/ my gf for about 3 yrs now, she will be 32 and wants to get married but their relationship is plagued w/ drama. I don't think he's exactly ready to get married right now. I know of another 31 yr old, educated, parents still together that wants to get married, but not right now. He's still trying to get on his feet and get settled. I know of a hood dude, just turned 30, whose leaving all that behind, and has been begging to marry me for the past 2 years. He's still not ready tho b/c his finances are not stable. He's just 'getting by' and his $$$ is not steady. No one wants to marry that. The commonality between all these men is: just not ready. Whether it be mentally, financially, emotionally. Then there are those who still want to sow their oats and run around some more.

 

[ThickHair]

I find that the black men who do want to get married aren't necessarily ready when we are. We may be ready from late 20s to early 30s, but many of them aren't. Even if they are ready mentally and emotionally, their finances aren't exactly in order. In order, I don't mean making 6 figures and balling, I mean - they may still be living at home or struggling on their own. They are not really in a predicament to combine finances and know they are to provide and help their wife. I'm not saying these men don't exist, but I think it's more commonplace to find a Black woman that has a decent job, can hold her own, live on her own comfortably from her late 20s onwards than it is to find a Black man that can do so w/ the same comfort she can.
Also, add to the fact that many of them aren't emotionally mature enough to be a husband at this age, whereas women are. I can't even blame it on a particular 'type' of man either. B/c I know of a very straightlaced, nerdy, intellectual, well educated soon to be 30 year old - he's been w/ my gf for about 3 yrs now, she will be 32 and wants to get married but their relationship is plagued w/ drama. I don't think he's exactly ready to get married right now. I know of another 31 yr old, educated, parents still together that wants to get married, but not right now. He's still trying to get on his feet and get settled. I know of a hood dude, just turned 30, whose leaving all that behind, and has been begging to marry me for the past 2 years. He's still not ready tho b/c his finances are not stable. He's just 'getting by' and his $$$ is not steady. No one wants to marry that. The commonality between all these men is: just not ready. Whether it be mentally, financially, emotionally. Then there are those who still want to sow their oats and run around some more.

That is why I don't have an issue with younger woman marrying older guys. I think a woman in her 30's would be perfect for a man in his early 50's. It works, she is ready and he is. Now the guys who are in their 30's when they reach their 50's there will be more 30 yo woman. Folks will cycle together. The only messed up thing is women 40-60 who find themselves single AGAIN?????? If they don't want anything serious then a man in his 30's would be perfect. If they want something serious then they would have to see men in their late 60's or order. I am not talking about broke down old men either, there are plenty of older men who really don't want to be bothered with super young woman and a women who has some experience would be perfect. Keep in mind, I am talking about sane people who are about something, not Uncle Ray Ray who is 63 1/2 and needs a place to stay.

 

[Imani]

Wow...without having read EVERY response to the OP's question, I can't help but think a lot of the responses are negative biases based on poor past experiences.

Different take - I think American MEN in general are waiting to get married and I think a lot of this has to do with education and career pursuits. And frankly, I don't knock it. Studies show that the more education a person receives the more likely their marriage is to succeed. If that's the case, and the studies hold true for the black community, then I say more men should wait until they're ready.

I don't knock a man for postponing a commitment until he's ready to commit.

All of my black male friends already have masters degrees and good jobs. I believe they will all get married in a few years when they feel mentally ready and finances/career stable. They are stretching out singledom as long as possible, which is cool, it makes sense to wait til you're ready.

I think the problem tho is that in the meantime they are playing games, lying and manipulating women, having "wifey" 's ,etc. Its on both sides, they are wrong for taking advantage and the women are wrong for putting up with it if they are not on the same page.

All of the white men I know married a year or so out of undergrad, and have been married while also pursuing masters degrees and their careers.

 

[chocolat79]

All of my black male friends already have masters degrees and good jobs. I believe they will all get married in a few years when they feel mentally ready and finances/career stable. They are stretching out singledom as long as possible, which is cool, it makes sense to wait til you're ready.

I think the problem tho is that in the meantime they are playing games, lying and manipulating women, having "wifey" 's ,etc. Its on both sides, they are wrong for taking advantage and the women are wrong for putting up with it if they are not on the same page.

All of the white men I know married a year or so out of undergrad, and have been married while also pursuing masters degrees and their careers.

And THIS is the point I've been trying to understand. Right.here. I was working at a hospital in NC a few years ago and ALL the new residents who came in were married, ALL of them (ages 27-33 or so). I don't know how long they had been married, but residency isn't a cakewalk either and they all got married. They were all WM. What's the problem with the BM? (rhetorically, because I know we're discussing this, LOL)

 

[Imani]

And THIS is the point I've been trying to understand. Right.here. I was working at a hospital in NC a few years ago and ALL the new residents who came in were married, ALL of them (ages 27-33 or so). I don't know how long they had been married, but residency isn't a cakewalk either, but they all got married. They were all WM. What's the problem with the BM? (rhetorically, because I know we're discussing this, LOL)

I see you're in NC, I wonder if this is just a southern thing? I worked at a firm in the south where most of the folks went to schools like Auburn, UGA, etc. and most of the young white people were married at like 23/24.

Its been a while since I asked some of my black male friends about this, but ...I know one of my friends has changed careers a few times and is chasing his passion, so he really isn't trying to settle down right now. Some of them are just really focused on career/chasing money right now and have heavy debt loads-as opposed to like some of my white coworkers, their parents probably paid for much of their schooling and also paid for their weddings/put the down payment on their home as a wedding gift. Some of them say they just haven't met the one. Others claim they're aren't any quality black women. And many of them are just are having fun being single, and sleeping around with the abundance of pretty women around (esp the ones who live in dc/atl).

 

[MzLady78]

That is why I don't have an issue with younger woman marrying older guys. I think a woman in her 30's would be perfect for a man in his early 50's. It works, she is ready and he is. Now the guys who are in their 30's when they reach their 50's there will be more 30 yo woman. Folks will cycle together. The only messed up thing is women 40-60 who find themselves single AGAIN?????? If they don't want anything serious then a man in his 30's would be perfect. If they want something serious then they would have to see men in their late 60's or order. I am not talking about broke down old men either, there are plenty of older men who really don't want to be bothered with super young woman and a women who has some experience would be perfect. Keep in mind, I am talking about sane people who are about something, not Uncle Ray Ray who is 63 1/2 and needs a place to stay.

Really? I would think that would pose a problem if you plan to have children. How men are trying to become first time fathers at 50? And the ones who already have them aren't trying to do the baby thing again at their age. One of the guys I was seeing had his first at 39- he was like I'm done.

 

[chocolat79]

I see you're in NC, I wonder if this is just a southern thing? I worked at a firm in the south where most of the folks went to schools like Auburn, UGA, etc. and most of the young white people were married at like 23/24.

Its been a while since I asked some of my black male friends about this, but ...I know one of my friends has changed careers a few times and is chasing his passion, so he really isn't trying to settle down right now. Some of them are just really focused on career/chasing money right now and have heavy debt loads-as opposed to like some of my white coworkers, their parents probably paid for much of their schooling and also paid for their weddings/put the down payment on their home as a wedding gift. Some of them say they just haven't met the one. Others claim they're aren't any quality black women. And many of them are just are having fun being single, and sleeping around with the abundance of pretty women around (esp the ones who live in dc/atl).

Well, I'm from NC, but I'm in ATL now. I'm not sure if it's just a Southern thing. I've worked in Rhode Island and there where two WM not married..one was like 23 and the other was around 26, but there was this other guy around mid-30's who had been married for a while with kids. THEN, I have a friend who's WM colleague got married at about 26 or so and she's in NJ, so I'm not sure if it's regional or not, but it doesn't seem to be so. A lot of the women on this board are from all over and having some of the same issues, so I'm not sure. That'd be rather interesting to find out, actually.

 

[Syrah]

All of my black male friends already have masters degrees and good jobs. I believe they will all get married in a few years when they feel mentally ready and finances/career stable. They are stretching out singledom as long as possible, which is cool, it makes sense to wait til you're ready.

I think the problem tho is that in the meantime they are playing games, lying and manipulating women, having "wifey" 's ,etc. Its on both sides, they are wrong for taking advantage and the women are wrong for putting up with it if they are not on the same page.

All of the white men I know married a year or so out of undergrad, and have been married while also pursuing masters degrees and their careers.

I think its difficult to make a comparison to white people because the messages regarding marriage are different. There isn't (publicly aired dissension) between white men and white women. Depending on the SES level, white children are raised with the expectation that marriage is something you will do, not a burden on one's life. And the higher you go up the SES ladders, the more marriage pressures increase.

"Wife" in the black community is a verb - something you bestow on a woman (like its a prize), not something you choose or earn. I think thats why so many of us subconsciously hate to hear folks say "wife that up". Its seen as an elevation of status for a woman as determined by a man.

I think, our community's fixation on entertainment as the most displayed form of black success has a lot to do with. The people that black men (sub)consciously emulate see marriage as a burden, a financial risk or the results of a child out of wedlock, not as a way of securing stable home environments and wealth for future generations. Further compounding the "marriage is a burden" pop culture mentality is the notion that these people aren't marrying financial equals (entertainers and athletes).

I dunno - I'm just hesitant to take the "these nuccas wanna mess around for as long as they can" approach because I think this is symptomatic of a larger issue within the black community - who we actively esteem in our community. Brothers are convincing themselves that it should take a Beyonce to put a ring on it, not realizing that they aren't quite Jay-Z's themselves (for whatever that's worth).

I'm not exonerating brothers - shoot, I go to school with a handful of dudes who share the same mentalities as those mentioned. However, in "safe" conversations, I've heard the same dudes who talk the mess publicly admit that in the next 2-3 years they plan to be married or headed in that direction. What's interesting is that some of this is coming from the realization that marriage is a requirement for ascension in some social and professional circles. I was told by one classmate working in investment banking that unless you're that ONE GUY in the entire firm that is closing unprecedented deals on the regular, there is an assumption that by the time one becomes a VP, one is either engaged or married. How air-tight these marriages are is a totally different question.

 

[chocolat79]

Really? I would think that would pose a problem if you plan to have children. How men are trying to become first time fathers at 50? And the ones who already have them aren't trying to do the baby thing again at their age. One of the guys I was seeing had his first at 39- he was like I'm done.

You're right, MzLady78. I have been seeing this older man for a few weeks now and he's 52. Anyway, he has 4 GROWN children. He was telling me about some other woman who was interested in him and had a small child and why it wouldn't work because he didn't want any children. Understandably. Of course, it's not going to go anywhere with me either. I'm undecided about children, but if I decide I WANT one, I'd like that option.

 

[Prudent1]

And THIS is the point I've been trying to understand. Right.here. I was working at a hospital in NC a few years ago and ALL the new residents who came in were married, ALL of them (ages 27-33 or so). I don't know how long they had been married, but residency isn't a cakewalk either and they all got married. They were all WM. What's the problem with the BM? (rhetorically, because I know we're discussing this, LOL)

I think as other have said it comes down to a matter of personal choice. I see this too with men of other races. Many couples who marry despite not having everything 'together' know that regardless they will have their work cut out for them in a marriage. They accept the fact that they will have to work together and live below their means sometimes with babies and other surprises involved. For them there is no certain number or formula that has to be obtained prior to saying "I do". That's not to suggest that they(or anyone should) enter into their marriages haphazardly but they expect a 'rags to riches' type scenario. There are those who have relatives who set everything out for them but most of the ppl I know IRL started with very little, had goals, clear plans to accomplish them, and got at it. Many broke the cardinal AA rule and got married and had a child while they were in undergrad even. When you factor in inflation, emergencies, the fact that the $$ amt needed to be 'established' moves constantly and other real life events, it all boils down to these guys just don't want to be married for whatever reason- IMHO.

 

[chocolat79]

I think its difficult to make a comparison to white people because the messages regarding marriage are different. There isn't (publicly aired dissension) between white men and white women. Depending on the SES level, white children are raised with the expectation that marriage is something you will do, not a burden on one's life or an attempt by a woman to stake her claim on half of one's assets. And the higher you go up the SES ladders, the more marriage pressures increase.

I think, our community's fixation on entertainment as the most displayed form of black success has a lot to do with. The people that black men (sub)consciously emulate see marriage as a burden, a financial risk or the results of a child out of wedlock, not as a way of securing stable home environments and wealth for future generations. Further compounding the "marriage is a burden" pop culture mentality is the notion that these people aren't marrying financial equals (entertainers and athletes).

I dunno - I'm just hesitant to take the "these nuccas wanna mess around for as long as they can" approach because I think this is symptomatic of a larger issue within the black community - who we actively esteem in our community. Brothers are convincing themselves that it should take a Beyonce to put a ring on it, not realizing that they aren't quite Jay-Z's themselves (for whatever that's worth).

I'm not exonerating brothers - shoot, I go to school with a handful of dudes who share the same mentalities as those mentioned. However, one-on-one or in "safe" communities, I've heard every single one of my male friends admit that in the next 2-3 years they plan to be married or headed in that direction. What's interesting is that some of this is coming from the realization that marriage is a requirement for ascension in some social and professional circles. I was told by one classmate working in investment banking that unless you're that ONE GUY in the entire firm that is closing unprecedented deals on the regular, there is an assumption that by the time one becomes a VP, one is either engaged or married. How air tight these marriages are is a totally different question.

I 100% co-sign on this!

BUT, even when some of these men have all these things, they're still playing around. I know a few successful BM who are in their late 30's to mid-40's who aren't married and they are established. And these aren't isolated cases, those are just the few I know. My friends know more. One of my friends has a really good friend who is late 30's, is some kind of engineer, makes mad money, investments, etc...and STILL single. Another acquaintance of hers, mid-30's, works on Wall Street and does pretty good (I suppose), STILL out here playing around.

But I do agree with all you're saying and I do agree that a lot of your reasons are culprits. But even freakin' Jay-Z realized the need to settle down. And most of these dudes KNOW at their ages, if they don't have it by now, they're not going to be on a Jay-Z status, unless something drastic happens, and that WON'T be the majority.

The interesting thing about a lot of these men in the media who are emulated (esp. rappers), is that they have or are married! That's the crazy thing. Of course, that's not as heavily displayed as the glorification of money and (supposed) singledom, but still, I just think that's kind of interesting. They don't want to emulate that part.

I won't even go in on the financial risk. All I'll say is, the average BM NEEDS the average BW, financially speaking. That's all I'm going to say about that, LOL.

 

[qchelle]

And THIS is the point I've been trying to understand. Right.here. I was working at a hospital in NC a few years ago and ALL the new residents who came in were married, ALL of them (ages 27-33 or so). I don't know how long they had been married, but residency isn't a cakewalk either and they all got married. They were all WM. What's the problem with the BM? (rhetorically, because I know we're discussing this, LOL)

This touches on what I said upthread (woohoo someone reiterated my point lol). I think BM feel like they have more pressure to be in tip-top financial shape with no other debts at all before they get married. I think WM are more inclined to just go with the flow and marry while still in school. Like I think a WM would buy a fixer-upper home (and take the time to fix it up once he's there) before a BM would; the BM would need for the house to have all the fixings before he moved in.

Maybe this is because BM feel like they have more of a chance to mess it up (marriage) with less of a support system and very few examples of marriages to model. So therefore, they like to make sure ALL of their ducks are in a row before marriage. Wheareas with WM, it may be less of a big deal to them because they have a bigger support system, examples, etc.

Again, I'm really just thinking off the top of my head and throwing random stuff out there.

 

[chocolat79]

I think as other have said it comes down to a matter of personal choice. I see this too with men of other races. Many couples who marry despite not having everything 'together' know that regardless they will have their work cut out for them in a marriage. They accept the fact that they will have to work together and live below their means sometimes with babies and other surprises involved. For them there is no certain number or formula that has to be obtained prior to saying "I do". That's not to suggest that they(or anyone should) enter into their marriages haphazardly but they expect a 'rags to riches' type scenario. There are those who have relatives who set everything out for them but most of the ppl I know IRL started with very little, had goals, clear plans to accomplish them, and got at it. Many broke the cardinal AA rule and got married and had a child while they were in undergrad even. When you factor in inflation, emergencies, the fact that the $$ amt needed to be 'established' moves constantly and other real life events, it all boils down to these guys just don't want to be married for whatever reason- IMHO.

Agree with everything, esp. the bold. It's really sad.

 

[chocolat79]

This touches on what I said upthread (woohoo someone reiterated my point lol). I think BM feel like they have more pressure to be in tip-top financial shape with no other debts at all before they get married. I think WM are more inclined to just go with the flow and marry while still in school. Like I think a WM would buy a fixer-upper home (and take the time to fix it up once he's there) before a BM would; the BM would need for the house to have all the fixings before he moved in.

Maybe this is because BM feel like they have more of a chance to mess it up (marriage) with less of a support system and very few examples of marriages to model. So therefore, they like to make sure ALL of their ducks are in a row before marriage. Wheareas with WM, it may be less of a big deal to them because they have a bigger support system, examples, etc.

Again, I'm really just thinking off the top of my head and throwing random stuff out there.

Thank you for adding a hypothesis about this. That is going to be my next question, LOL.


Question: Why do you think BM need to be in the ideal situation before they will even CONTEMPLATE marriage?

 

[Syrah]

I think as other have said it comes down to a matter of personal choice. I see this too with men of other races. Many couples who marry despite not having everything 'together' know that regardless they will have their work cut out for them in a marriage. They accept the fact that they will have to work together and live below their means sometimes with babies and other surprises involved. For them there is no certain number or formula that has to be obtained prior to saying "I do". That's not to suggest that they(or anyone should) enter into their marriages haphazardly but they expect a 'rags to riches' type scenario. There are those who have relatives who set everything out for them but most of the ppl I know IRL started with very little, had goals, clear plans to accomplish them, and got at it. Many broke the cardinal AA rule and got married and had a child while they were in undergrad even. When you factor in inflation, emergencies, the fact that the $$ amt needed to be 'established' moves constantly and other real life events, it all boils down to these guys just don't want to be married for whatever reason- IMHO.

But that's just it, marriage is a choice, like getting an education is a choice, in the black community. For a lot of folks, especially immigrant communities in the US, these decisions aren't choices, they are expectations. Shoot, in some communities, just going to college isn't good enough - if it ain't law, medicine or engineering, why do it?!

The problem is, in our community, the de facto group that is being deferred to for "expectations" or setting the standard for how to live, views marriage negatively. The role models aren't married so why should the flock think to get married? How many entertainers come from married families? Shoot...how many come from a 2 parent family unit? How many even have positive (non-negative) relationships with their fathers?!??!

 

[qchelle]

The interesting thing about a lot of these men in the media who are emulated (esp. rappers), is that they have or are married! That's the crazy thing. Of course, that's not as heavily displayed as the glorification of money and (supposed) singledom, but still, I just think that's kind of interesting. They don't want to emulate that part.

Emulating rappers? Well maybe they're just waiting for the right WW to settle down with I'm halfway joking.

Thank you for adding a hypothesis about this. That is going to be my next question, LOL.


Question: Why do you think BM need to be in the ideal situation before they will even CONTEMPLATE marriage?

I also think this question could be extended to include BW (some BW).

 

[BEAUTYU2U]

As for finances, I think that is all just BS. Most couples marry young and *waitforit* work together to make their dreams come true. Why is it that black men cite "financial instability" for why they don't marry? They're financially secure enough to go to the club every weekend, wine and dine multiple women, pay child support for their illegitimate children...so why not a wife? Give me a break. It's selfish. They want to show that they "made it," can afford a nice car, designer clothes. That's not what marriage is about. It's not supposed to be a matter of status. *sigh*

 

[Syrah]

I 100% co-sign on this!

BUT, even when some of these men have all these things, they're still playing around. I know a few successful BM who are in their late 30's to mid-40's who aren't married and they are established. And these aren't isolated cases, those are just the few I know. My friends know more. One of my friends has a really good friend who is late 30's, is some kind of engineer, makes mad money, investments, etc...and STILL single. Another acquaintance of hers, mid-30's, works on Wall Street and does pretty good (I suppose), STILL out here playing around.

But I do agree with all you're saying and I do agree that a lot of your reasons are culprits. But even freakin' Jay-Z realized the need to settle down. And most of these dudes KNOW at their ages, if they don't have it by now, they're not going to be on a Jay-Z status, unless something drastic happens, and that WON'T be the majority.

The interesting thing about a lot of these men in the media who are emulated (esp. rappers), is that they have or are married! That's the crazy thing. Of course, that's not as heavily displayed as the glorification of money and (supposed) singledom, but still, I just think that's kind of interesting. They don't want to emulate that part.

I won't even go in on the financial risk. All I'll say is, the average BM NEEDS the average BW, financially speaking. That's all I'm going to say about that, LOL.

But think about it - who does Jay-Z run with? His team of peers aren't other rappers and ball players and his team of people (aside from Mikhail Prokhorov) are probably married. And I'm not knocking the love between Beyonce and Jay-Z, but their marriage was a good business decision for HIM. His being married lends credibility, discipline and seriousness to his name and his aspirations.

The handful of successful brothers I know (that aren't my direct peers), yea there's a sprinkling who aren't married, but the majority are. And those who aren't are having more trouble discerning whether a woman's attraction is to HIM or his assets (yes, part of that problem lies with him and how he presents himself). And on that note, I think that's why someone needs to create a matchmaking service for successful Blacks. No, not a website where anyone and their momma can sign up but something along the lines of Valenti International, the Blue Fish Group etc - where personal introductions are made based on an assessment and understanding of the two people involved.

Rapper marriages? Eh...T.I. and Tiny aren't something to be emulated...

 

[chocolat79]

Emulating rappers? Well maybe they're just waiting for the right WW to settle down with I'm halfway joking.

LOL.... Rappers/athletes make the joys of singleness seem boundless and carefree, that's why I mentioned rappers. Actors aren't quite as blatant, it seems. Anyway, I was just giving an example, LOL.


I also think this question could be extended to include BW (some BW).

Qchelle, I think that's less of the norm. AND we's (yes we's) not talking about BW, we're talking about BM. Stop trying to lump us in, we've got enough issues! LOL

 

[chocolat79]

But think about it - who does Jay-Z run with? His team of peers aren't other rappers and ball players and his team of people (aside from Mikhail Prokhorov) are probably married. And I'm not knocking the love between Beyonce and Jay-Z, but their marriage was a good business decision for HIM. His being married lends credibility, discipline and seriousness to his name and his aspirations. For a man, being married is a good business decision.

The handful of successful brothers I know (that aren't my direct peers), yea there's a sprinkling who aren't married, but the majority are. And those who aren't are having more trouble discerning whether a woman's attraction is to HIM or his assets (yes, part of that problem lies with him and how he presents himself). And on that note, I think that's why someone needs to create a matchmaking service for successful Blacks. No, not a website where anyone and their momma can sign up but something along the lines of Valenti International, the Blue Fish Group etc - where personal introductions are made based on an assessment and understanding of the two people involved.

Rapper marriages? Eh...T.I. and Tiny aren't something to be emulated...

I'm with you. I agree, I'm just saying...no, rapper marriages are by NO means anything to be emulated, but MOST (I'm speaking of well-established rappers, not Yung whoever) of them are married, regardless and didn't come from great households either ...just speaking superficially, not talking about the dysfunction and all that.

I'm really just inciting dialogue here and I'm glad that you're playing along. I agree with what you're saying and I'm just bringing up counter points to delve deeper.

@ bolded- Excellent idea!

 

[Syrah]

As for finances, I think that is all just BS. Most couples marry young and *waitforit* work together to make their dreams come true. Why is it that black men cite "financial instability" for why they don't marry? They're financially secure enough to go to the club every weekend, wine and dine multiple women, pay child support for their illegitimate children...so why not a wife? Give me a break. It's selfish. They want to show that they "made it," can afford a nice car, designer clothes. That's not what marriage is about. It's not supposed to be a matter of status. *sigh*

Most couples USED TO marry young. The average age that men and women are when they get married has been going up for the past 20 or so years. Getting married at 18, 19, 20 and boot-strapping your way through life to get a good job, work for the same company for 45 years and retire with a pension simply doesn't exist anymore. Nor does buying a home that could reasonably be paid off in 10-15 years. Instead people are postponing marriage until during or after receiving an education.

The black men that you speak of who are at the club with baby momma's at home aren't getting married because no one expects them to. And considering the behavior that you mention, isn't it obvious that their role models are a bit off to begin with?

I think it starts at the top and trickles down the same way fashion does. Oh, I see dude I want to be like rocking x shirt, x shoes and x car and I want to be like him so I emulate the behavior. Personally, I think marriage is no different. People are what they see. The problem is the people we see the most in the black community are NOT MARRIED.

White people have non-entertainment role models, or publicly visible figures, to offset the antics of the entertainment industry. And most of these people are married. The black community is struggling to define this group and maintain its consistency and I think thats hurting us in a lot of ways - one of which leading to the prolonged pursuit of marriage amongst "marriage-able" black men.