Why does it seem to take a lot of American Black men longer to get married?

[snillohsss]

I think because the men don't have their minds right and society is forever glorifying man-boy behaviour. Women will trip over themselves to be with/date/sex men who are in relationships and then turn around and say it's on the man to say no. Huh? We women make it too easy (chasing/entertaining men we shouldn't) and couple that with men not having their minds right and it's a disaster.

This!

 

[nappystorm]

Kurlee we as woman set the standards and the tone for our realtionships. IMHO it do not think it is demanding when a woman and man are dating very early in the realtionship for the woman to say what she is expecting out of the realtionship be it long term or just daiting.

This is true. When I meet someone, I simply ask what is he looking for. If he says something like he "just want to see where it goes". I put him the friend zone or don't even bother. If he says something like "he wants to settle down" I will ask him to elaborate. If he says, "marriage". Ding, ding, ding. You have a winner!! Also ask his views about shacking, having children out of wedlock, men and women roles in the households. Men tell us all we need to know. We just need to listen.

 

[Kurlee]

You dont need to demand marriage by words. You demand it by not bragging about being in a bf/gf relationship for a decade. You demand it by leaving wen he doesnt wanna make you a respectable woman. You demand it by not having OOW kids and if that happens, at least get that arse married within a year later. You deman it by NOT being a ride or die chick. Demand it by not fighting with women for "looking at your man" when the real person you should be fighting with just left his laundry at your place.

I know people say that it's unfair to blame the woman, but let's look at it like this

who is raising these dysfunctional males? who are the people getting with these men that dont show the kids that marriage is a blessing? these boys are going by what they see and they grow up to the headaches that black women are dealing with now.

Take Teen Mom. Forgive me for forgetting their names but when that black girl from Rochester, when Isaac married her, didnt his family go crazy? Talking about 'whatchu need to marry her for" blah blah...yet when the trashy white couples decide to get married/shotgun wedding, the families are hardly ever against it. I just dont understand

i have to disagree in some ways. I think a lot of women are not raising their sons to be anything else but dogs, BUT where are the fathers? And what about the fathers that perpetuate misogynistic playa ways? I HATE the blame being on the woman because most of the time, women are doing the best they can and yet they are blamed for men dropping the ball (OOW, infidelity, abandonment, kids coming out dysfunctional).

 

[nappystorm]

And for goodness sake, quit letting people make you feel crazy, clingy, or old fashioned because you want to get married. There isn't a thing wrong with wanting to get married and you are WORTHY. Okay. Enough of my rant.

 

[Kurlee]

Both sides are to blame, but BW are the ones who really need to step up and stop allowing this, because ultimately they're the ones who end up getting the short end of the stick when ish hits the fan. They're the ones who end up bitter and heartbroken because they have nothing to show for the X amount of years they put into that relationship but some kids that they now to raise by themselves.

u know i agree to an extent, but I think women are just desperate at this point. They want families, kids and companionship so badly that they put up with nonsense to get it. This may be an unpopular opinion but good, gainfully employed, educated, faithful black men are NOT in abundance nowadays so women, from what I have seen get desperate once the 30's set in and their eggs start to expire. I think we need to ask why are the "good", family oriented black men so scarce and why are black women being left out in the cold? Why are so many black men unmarriageable and unsuccessful? Saying black men suck because women let them suck doesn't wash. Whatever happened to personal accountability?

 

[Aveena]

^^ it is soo true. Wanting to be married is good honorable thing.

** ran to dictionary.com to look up CAD:

–noun 1.
an ill-bred man, esp. one who behaves in a dishonorable or irresponsible way toward women.


There are Cad's all over who are held in very high regard within the community meanwhile their opinions shouldn't even count in regards to marriage.

 

[NaijaTroll]

i have to disagree in some ways. I think a lot of women are not raising their sons to be anything else but dogs, BUT where are the fathers? And what about the fathers that perpetuate misogynistic playa ways? I HATE the blame being on the woman because most of the time, women are doing the best they can and yet they are blamed for men dropping the ball (OOW, infidelity, abandonment, kids coming out dysfunctional).

sadly this all goes back to the woman

would you have kids with someone who would abandon you and your kid/not be around to raise a decent son/daughter? would you date a known playa? would you stay with a man whom you know has kids outside/never married the mother(s)? Dont we control our vaginas in this country?
If this was a 3rd world country with an oppressive culture, I'd seriously agree with you

 

[Kurlee]

sadly this all goes back to the woman

would you have kids with someone who would abandon you and your kid/not be around to raise a decent son/daughter? would you date a known playa? would you stay with a man whom you know has kids outside/never married the mother(s)? Dont we control our vaginas in this country?
If this was a 3rd world country with an oppressive culture, I'd seriously agree with you

i feel where ur coming from, but I really think men need to step their game up. We spend all this time blaming each other for the shortcomings of men. If they really wanted to marry, they would, without prompting or subliminal pressure. Women shouldn't have to audition and prove how great they are and be on their p's ad q's so a man will marry them. I think if a man is marriage minded, he will want to marry regardless. If he is commitment minded, he will commit. I think very little of people who only act right because they know they will get in trouble. Integrity is doing the right thing even when u could do the wrong thing and get away with it. I couldn't respect a man who would mistreat, waste time with people, etc just because he "can". he should have more guts and backbone than that.

 

[nappystorm]

Actually, I get what Kurlee is saying. Unconsciously, I always blamed myself for getting in these horrible situations with men and deep down I felt I wasn't worthy of a good man because I was "stupid". That created an unhealthy cycle of bad relationships and baggage. One day I just decided I would no accept blame for the bad behavior of those men and I began to forgive myself.

 

[MzLady78]

u know i agree to an extent, but I think women are just desperate at this point. They want families, kids and companionship so badly that they put up with nonsense to get it. This may be an unpopular opinion but good, gainfully employed, educated, faithful black men are NOT in abundance nowadays so women, from what I have seen get desperate once the 30's set in and their eggs start to expire.

As a 32 year old woman who is definitely concerned about her eggs expiring, I agree that this plays a part. Some women get to the point where a piece of a man is better than no man at all. And I can't lie, I've been there myself, unfortunately. I've just never brought kids into the situation.

 

[qchelle]

Oh! Oh! Just thought of something else (another differing opinion)!

It may have something to do with the black community being extremely homophobic and marriage being seen as an uber woman-girly-emotional-thing. So the men don't want to be seen as punks...for getting married...and being emotional.

I'm just throwing random things out there.

Question: why is there so much hostility surrounding "marriage is just a piece of paper"? It is just a piece of paper, isn't it? It's a legally binding document that affords you government benefits. Is the hostility because marriage is supposed to be viewed as a romantic notion and not as a legal agreement? I understand that some people say it's 'just a piece of paper' because they have no intentions of getting married. But others (like me) actually do view marriage in that way...and I fully intend on being married some day.

I think if marriage was presented in a more practical way like explaining the actual, tangible benefits to men, more of them would see how beneficial it really is. Whereas with women, it may be more emotionally based (marriage) and this may be enough for her to want to get married ("because we love each other and I want to spend rest of my life with you *gush*"). And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, but maybe more BM would be persuaded if stuff like this>>> 'taking family leave to care for your spouse during an illness' or 'automatically renewing leases signed by your spouse'<<< was common knowledge in the black community (I'm not saying it's common knowledge for other communities...I have no idea...I'm just talking about the BC right now). Maybe they would be less apt to wanting to play house at 40 yrs. old.

Of course this is just a thought and even with knowing all of the benefits many of them could still be like deuces I'm just trying to keep the conversation going

 

[Kurlee]

Actually, I get what Kurlee is saying. Unconsciously, I always blamed myself for getting in these horrible situations with men and deep down I felt I wasn't worthy of a good man because I was "stupid". That created an unhealthy cycle of bad relationships and baggage. One day I just decided I would no accept blame for the bad behavior of those men and I began to forgive myself.

I totally feel u. You can't blame urself for someone being a jerk. If someone mistreats u, it's not because u let them and are stupid, it's because THEY lack moral fiber. We let men get away with too much crap. I'm sure we have all had someone who liked us a lot and we could have taken advantage of them if we so wished. I takes integrity NOT to and still respect that person just for being a person. I think there;s a special place in hell for people who CONSCIOUSLY use and take advantage of people and then throw their hands up and blame the victim.

 

[MzLady78]

Oh! Oh! Just thought of something else (another differing opinion)!

It may have something to do with the black community being extremely homophobic and marriage being seen as an uber woman-girly-emotional-thing. So the men don't want to be seen as punks...for getting married...and being emotional.

I'm just throwing random things out there.

Question: why is there so much hostility surrounding "marriage is just a piece of paper"? It is just a piece of paper, isn't it? It's a legally binding document that affords you government benefits. Is the hostility because marriage is supposed to be viewed as a romantic notion and not as a legal agreement? I understand that some people say it's 'just a piece of paper' because they have no intentions of getting married. But others (like me) actually do view marriage in that way...and I fully intend on being married some day.

I think if marriage was presented in a more practical way like explaining the actual, tangible benefits to men, more of them would see how beneficial it really is. Whereas with women, it may be more emotionally based (marriage) and this may be enough for her to want to get married ("because we love each other and I want to spend rest of my life with you *gush*"). And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, but maybe more BM would be persuaded if stuff like this>>> 'taking family leave to care for your spouse during an illness' or 'automatically renewing leases signed by your spouse'<<< was common knowledge in the black community (I'm not saying it's common knowledge for other communities...I have no idea...I'm just talking about the BC right now). Maybe they would be less apt to wanting to play house at 40 yrs. old.

Of course this is just a thought and even with knowing all of the benefits many of them could still be like deuces I'm just trying to keep the conversation going

Alrighty then.

At the bolded, so I'm supposed to break down to a grown a** man why he would benefit from that "piece of paper" so he'll feel better about marrying me? Umm, no thanks.

 

[qchelle]

Alrighty then.

At the bolded, so I'm supposed to break down to a grown a** man why he would benefit from that "piece of paper" so he'll feel better about marrying me? Umm, no thanks.

Yea idk, I was just throwing stuff out there

 

[Kurlee]

As a 32 year old woman who is definitely concerned about her eggs expiring, I definitely agree that this plays a part. Some women get to the point where a piece of a man is better than no man at all. And I can't lie, I've been there myself, unfortunately. I've just never brought kids into the situation.

I'm in my twenties and totally hear u. For some reason it seems "harder" for black women to do the whole husband/family thing. I know a lot of married folk, but they are mostly Christians and from a different generation than me (most late thirties and forties). They seem to have a different mindset about family and marriage. When I look at my peers, I .

If I don't marry my current SO (which I probably will), then lawd help me. The men I come across in all settings (social, academic, church, work) are just LACKING. Shallow as a plate and they can quote/recite Lil Wayne and em' verbatim, but don't know what happened in the past ten years in the world. Nice people, really cool and fun, but no substance beyond BBM, clothes, NBA and Wacka Flack (whatever his name is). I have come across a few decent men, but they were like 1 in every 15 and most knew they were in demand (education, looks, career) and were arrogant or "preferred" Becky, Lolita and Ming Lee. I look at my older siblings and it's the same story (they are early 30;s). Tired men, tired excuses, few are married but all have lots of kids.

 

[nappystorm]

I'm in my twenties and totally hear u. For some reason it seems "harder" for black women to do the whole husband/family thing. I know a lot of married folk, but they are mostly Christians and from a different generation than me (most late thirties and forties). They seem to have a different mindset about family and marriage. When I look at my peers, I .

If I don't marry my current SO (which I probably will), then lawd help me. The men I come across in all settings (social, academic, church, work) are just LACKING. Shallow as a plate and they can quote/recite Lil Wayne and em' verbatim, but don't know what happened in the past ten years in the world. Nice people, really cool and fun, but no substance beyond BBM, clothes, NBA and Wacka Flack (whatever his name is). I have come across a few decent men, but they were like 1 in every 15 and most knew they were in demand (education, looks, career) and were arrogant or "preferred" Becky, Lolita and Ming Lee. I look at my older siblings and it's the same story (they are early 30;s). Tired men, tired excuses, few are married but all have lots of kids.

This may sound kooky but I've been on POF for a year. I was constantly getting contacted by freaks, weirdos, and thugs. As soon as I decided to change my outlook on men and relationships (see Vision Board and LHCF Circle threads). I started getting approached by accomplished, highly educated, marriage minded guys. Now I'm doing the picking and choosing It feels great!!

 

[qchelle]

^^^Same here! Either they're extremely lacking or extremely arrogant Where are the ones in the middle?!

 

[Kurlee]

^^^Same here! Either they're extremely lacking or extremely arrogant Where are the ones in the middle?!

they exist and I have met some. They are just few and far between and sometimes don't come in the best packages.

 

[Kurlee]

what is POF?

 

[nappystorm]

Plenty of Fish. A dating site

 

[TexturedTresses]

This may sound kooky but I've been on POF for a year. I was constantly getting contacted by freaks, weirdos, and thugs. As soon as I decided to change my outlook on men and relationships (see Vision Board and LHCF Circle threads). I started getting approached by accomplished, highly educated, marriage minded guys. Now I'm doing the picking and choosing It feels great!!

how did you change your outlook?

 

[Imani]

i feel where ur coming from, but I really think men need to step their game up. We spend all this time blaming each other for the shortcomings of men. If they really wanted to marry, they would, without prompting or subliminal pressure. Women shouldn't have to audition and prove how great they are and be on their p's ad q's so a man will marry them. I think if a man is marriage minded, he will want to marry regardless. If he is commitment minded, he will commit. I think very little of people who only act right because they know they will get in trouble. Integrity is doing the right thing even when u could do the wrong thing and get away with it. I couldn't respect a man who would mistreat, waste time with people, etc just because he "can". he should have more guts and backbone than that.

I agree with this 100% When I first started dating a little bit I was reading all those relationship books, and thinking this exact same thing. Like, why should I be going thru all this to convince some low life to act right? Why not just find a dude who already has his integrity in tact? There are actually some good respectful men out there, but you'll never meet them wasting your time trying to train, convince, and coerce some trife negro.

I hear stuff like this from some of my male friends (all young black professionals-late 20s, early 30s) all the time. They have this sense of entitlement like its ALWAYS the women's fault for "letting them" do xyz; there is absolutely zero personal accountability. Its like, umm, did it ever occur to your that you might just be a d*ckhead? Yeah, she shouldn't have been putting up with your ish, but why were being a douchebag in the first place?

 

[nappystorm]

I stopped telling myself men ain't ish, there are no available men left, all the good ones are taken, etc. I stopped listening to sad, depressing break up songs and started listening to songs where the men were professing their love for a woman. I stopped reading and listening to negative stats and horrible break up stories. More importantly, I stopped telling my own.

I stopped being ashamed of the fact that I wanted to get married. Wanting to be married doesn't make me desperate or dependent. It's rather silly now that I think about women like Michelle, Jada, Beyonce, Hilary, etc. They are still strong and doing their own thing. So are many of the women I know who are married IRL. I want a friend, lover, and partner in life.

I started visiting positive threads and articles about relationships. I started going to bridals websites and visiting the pages of fb friends who were in happy relationships. I would look at wedding pictures on various websites (photography, resort websites, etc). Basically, I just started focusing my attention elsewhere. I still slip from time to time but I am much happier.

 

[nappystorm]

I agree with this 100% When I first started dating a little bit I was reading all those relationship books, and thinking this exact same thing. Like, why should I be going thru all this to convince some low life to act right? Why not just find a dude who already has his integrity in tact? There are actually some good respectful men out there, but you'll never meet them wasting your time trying to train, convince, and coerce some trife negro.

I hear stuff like this from some of my male friends (all young black professionals-late 20s, early 30s) all the time. They have this sense of entitlement like its ALWAYS the women's fault for "letting them" do xyz; there is absolutely zero personal accountability. Its like, umm, did it ever occur to your that you might just be a d*ckhead? Yeah, she shouldn't have been putting up with your ish, but why were being a douchebag in the first place?

That's what I say. I've rejected people but that doesn't give me the right to use or take advantage of them.

 

[qchelle]

I didn't know people were ashamed to get married. Wow.

 

[nappystorm]

I didn't know people were ashamed to get married. Wow.

Well more ashamed of the desire to get married. To some, it makes you seem weak.erplexed

 

[chocolat79]

I'm in my twenties and totally hear u. For some reason it seems "harder" for black women to do the whole husband/family thing. I know a lot of married folk, but they are mostly Christians and from a different generation than me (most late thirties and forties). They seem to have a different mindset about family and marriage. When I look at my peers, I .

If I don't marry my current SO (which I probably will), then lawd help me. The men I come across in all settings (social, academic, church, work) are just LACKING. Shallow as a plate and they can quote/recite Lil Wayne and em' verbatim, but don't know what happened in the past ten years in the world. Nice people, really cool and fun, but no substance beyond BBM, clothes, NBA and Wacka Flack (whatever his name is). I have come across a few decent men, but they were like 1 in every 15 and most knew they were in demand (education, looks, career) and were arrogant or "preferred" Becky, Lolita and Ming Lee. I look at my older siblings and it's the same story (they are early 30;s). Tired men, tired excuses, few are married but all have lots of kids.

Kurlee, you preaching in here! Especially the bolded. I've seen and run across this SOO much and I agree that these MEN are the sorry ones!!

I also must say that these women have raised some sorry jokas, BUT if we're talking about marriageable guys (for our ages), some of these women have done the best they can, generationally speaking. A lot of BW's self-esteem is shot, so they keep getting with these WRONG guys because these guys talk slick and tell them what they want to hear. They end up getting knocked up again with Ray Ray's umpteenth kid and still believing the BS, but it's still the same.

ALL of these men aren't the result of single mothers. I have a few friends who were raised by both parents and these dudes STILL trifling, OR just not pressed to get married, so all the blame can't go on the women. Of course, for those women who just don't care, and let a guy pump them full of babies, then that's another matter. Like that dude with 30+ kids or however many, but doesn't pay a dime of child support. That is a SORRY ninja! I'm sorry, but it is. Those women are sorry too, but trust me, he's more mobile than them, clearly, because he hasn't paid a dime of child support.

Anyway, I love all the responses! Keep them coming!

 

[Katherina]

Ladies... keep posting! I love the turn this thread has made.

There are normal men out there who desire an actual family UNIT (the mother of their kids being their WIFE), and remember, you're not only looking for him, he's also looking for YOU. Ahh, that just makes me feel good. Knowing he's also looking for you is all the more reason to kick the cads to the curb!!!

My thoughts on black men and marriage: Most of the black guys in my area come from healthy two-parent homes. The serial monogamists or perpetual toot and booters don't settle down until later because they fear commitment or they enjoy casual sex too much to give it up. Okay. I don't want to marry a commitment-o-phobe or a sex-with-everyone-o-phile, so that's fine with me. I think these guys will eventually get married in their late 20s or 30s.

However, I think for the bulk of the BC, marriage is undervalued because the marriages around them have failed or they were raised in a one-parent household out of wedlock (and of course don't get me started on black fools in the media who set poor examples for adolescents). I know women who've said, "Why get married? It's only going to end up in divorce anyway!" They aspired to be single moms (like their own mothers - or, another issue, to avoid abuse of their married mother ). So I'm sure men think the same way. Their dads and moms aren't married, and it's easier to continue ''the sins of our forefathers" than to forge our own paths.

I'm glad for the opportunity to dialogue with you ladies about these types of issues (like breakdown of the family / how important is marriage). It helps us to firmly stand up for what we want and deserve (when no good men try to "wifey" us up), and when we are questioned about it (by inquisitive women who look up to us), we will be able to clearly state our position and hopefully help others to see the value in marriage (or similar long term committed arrangement) / a strong family unit.

 

[Kurlee]

Kurlee, you preaching in here! Especially the bolded. I've seen and run across this SOO much and I agree that these MEN are the sorry ones!!

I also must say that these women have raised some sorry jokas, BUT if we're talking about marriageable guys (for our ages), some of these women have done the best they can, generationally speaking. A lot of BW's self-esteem is shot, so they keep getting with these WRONG guys because these guys talk slick and tell them what they want to hear. They end up getting knocked up again with Ray Ray's umpteenth kid and still believing the BS, but it's still the same.

ALL of these men aren't the result of single mothers. I have a few friends who were raised by both parents and these dudes STILL trifling, OR just not pressed to get married, so all the blame can't go on the women. Of course, for those women who just don't care, and let a guy pump them full of babies, then that's another matter. Like that dude with 30+ kids or however many, but doesn't pay a dime of child support. That is a SORRY ninja! I'm sorry, but it is. Those women are sorry too, but trust me, he's more mobile than them, clearly, because he hasn't paid a dime of child support.

Anyway, I love all the responses! Keep them coming!

Yup. The crappy men I have encountered equally sprout from single parents and dual parent homes. I don't think that's the issue. Society is encouraging man-boy behaviour and "alternative" lifestyles, narcissism and individualism are becoming the norm. I really think this influences people. I always find it funny when I see a new trend come out and everyone jumps on it without even knowing why they like it. It's just cuz everyone else is doing it. Dumb leading dumber. followers and very few leaders.

 

[Syrah]

Wow...without having read EVERY response to the OP's question, I can't help but think a lot of the responses are negative biases based on poor past experiences.

Different take - I think American MEN in general are waiting to get married and I think a lot of this has to do with education and career pursuits. And frankly, I don't knock it. Studies show that the more education a person receives the more likely their marriage is to succeed. If that's the case, and the studies hold true for the black community, then I say more men should wait until they're ready.

I don't knock a man for postponing a commitment until he's ready to commit.