nasty husband

[Farida]

This is not a just small flaw she was blinded to. If he really is as nasty as she says then he has always been that way. Unless he hired a cleaning lady 24/7 when they were dating.

Withholding sex and cooking for something you knew and accepted going into this is like a child throwing a tantrum.

This may be habit or worse character on his part. They should try to work through it because a good spouse should put some effort into making his wife happy.

He can try and learn to be a bit more considerate at least in shared areas. If not, if they can afford to the cleaning lady is a must. In every relationship you learn some things are not worth fighting about. Especially if you knew about this beforehand. Sounds like he at least keeps good personal hygiene/appearance so not all is lost.

 

[carcajada]

Physically the husband is neat and you would never guess he was this nasty. She says if you go in his personal bathroom you would want to vomit from the filthy toilet,vanity shower etc....
She also mentioned that for a while his toilet seat was broken so this fool was just using the potty sitting plainly on the toilet..no seat!

He knows how to be neat and keep a neat appearance so cleanliness is not the issue. What he is doing at home is intentional, not habit.

 

[Evolving78]

He knows how to be neat and keep a neat appearance so cleanliness is not the issue. What he is doing at home is intentional, not habit.

That's that passive aggressive stuff I don't like.

 

[carcajada]

That's that passive aggressive stuff I don't like.

Exactly. Reserving filth for the girlfriend or wife (because he has demonstrated he can be clean in other settings) is a clear yet passive aggressive message. I don't know if you remember a thread from a member here not too long ago lived with her boyfriend who was nasty. Everyone was all on board with stacking the dishes, withholding sex, and doing all sorts of crazy things to "punish" him. But after I asked her if he was the same way at work, his mother's house, and his homeboy's house a different story was told. She was falling for the okie doke and members here were feeding into it too.

 

[LiftedUp]

Did he grow up like that?

I was wondering this as well. It reminds me of a former seamstress. Her house was filthy and smelled musty but when you saw her and her family on the street, they were clean and well put together. You would've never known.

We stopped going by her because though she was excellent (self taught) and she steam pressed your clothing before giving it to you to mark the seams, we got tired of having to wash our clothing every single time we got it and re-iron it ourselves.

 

[ambergirl]

That's that passive aggressive stuff I don't like.

Could also be a sign of something else, like depression. I wouldn't assume he's doing this purposefully.

 

[Evolving78]

Could also be a sign of something else, like depression. I wouldn't assume he's doing this purposefully.

But he is clean in other aspects. To my understanding, if it stems from depression, everything falls out of order. Like he knows how to pull it together in other areas, but not cleaning up after his wife has repeatedly nagged, complained, begged, explained, etc...to clean up, sounds tactical.

I remember an episode of hoarders where this woman was getting back at her family by not cleaning up and hoardering things. She wasn't confrontational and would just mentally shut down on them. She wasn't listening to anything they had to say.

 

[Evolving78]

But he is clean in other aspects. To my understanding, if it stems from depression, everything falls out of order. Like he knows how to pull it together in other areas, but not cleaning up after his wife has repeatedly nagged, complained, begged, explained, etc...to clean up, sounds tactical.

I remember an episode of hoarders where this woman was getting back at her family by not cleaning up and hoardering things. She wasn't confrontational and would just mentally shut down on them. She wasn't listening to anything they had to say.

I'm still not getting this maid thing. Someone like me can't live in clutter at all. I couldn't wait a week or two for a maid to come. I still wouldn't be satisfied. Him and his daily messes would annoy me.
For instance, say I wash the dishes, and he just comes in the kitchen and make a mess afterwards, it would burn my soul. And I'm not a neat freak. But I don't like things out of order. It's very disruptive to my psyche. I know I have true ocd tendencies. Living with someone like that would cause me to become depressed.

 

[ambergirl]

But he is clean in other aspects. To my understanding, if it stems from depression, everything falls out of order. Like he knows how to pull it together in other areas, but not cleaning up after his wife has repeatedly nagged, complained, begged, explained, etc...to clean up, sounds tactical. I remember an episode of hoarders where this woman was getting back at her family by not cleaning up and hoardering things. She wasn't confrontational and would just mentally shut down on them. She wasn't listening to anything they had to say.

Not always. There are plenty of people who are situationally "messy" especially where they feel safe or a place they consider their "place".

Unless there are more details I would not assume that he is doing this out of spite or being passive aggressive. Either this is who he is and the woman knew this when she married him or something is going on with him or the relationship and that's how it's manifesting itself.

 

[Evolving78]

Not always. There are plenty of people who are situationally "messy" especially where they feel safe or a place they consider their "place".

Unless there are more details I would not assume that he is doing this out of spite or being passive aggressive. Either this is who he is and the woman knew this when she married him or something is going on with him or the relationship and that's how it's manifesting itself.

They definitely need counseling, the not cooking and withholding sex will just cause more problems. But I understand not wanting to do those things with someone that you feel doesn't care about your feelings.

 

[ambergirl]

They definitely need counseling, the not cooking and withholding sex will just cause more problems. But I understand not wanting to do those things with someone that you feel doesn't care about your feelings.

Yep. Maybe it is something about their relationship but I wouldn't be surprised if it's about something going on with him that is effecting their relationship. He sounds depressed to me.

 

[carcajada]

But he is clean in other aspects. To my understanding, if it stems from depression, everything falls out of order. Like he knows how to pull it together in other areas, but not cleaning up after his wife has repeatedly nagged, complained, begged, explained, etc...to clean up, sounds tactical.

I remember an episode of hoarders where this woman was getting back at her family by not cleaning up and hoardering things. She wasn't confrontational and would just mentally shut down on them. She wasn't listening to anything they had to say.

It's not depression. The type of filth the op described that has been going on during the marriage points to something else. Dude has other problems and the wife is just now wanting to do something about it.

 

[carcajada]

Not always. There are plenty of people who are situationally "messy" especially where they feel safe or a place they consider their "place".

Unless there are more details I would not assume that he is doing this out of spite or being passive aggressive. Either this is who he is and the woman knew this when she married him or something is going on with him or the relationship and that's how it's manifesting itself.

That would be passive aggressive behavior.

 

[barbiesocialite]

He knows how to be neat and keep a neat appearance so cleanliness is not the issue. What he is doing at home is intentional, not habit.

That's that passive aggressive stuff I don't like.

This is how I used to get my friends, exes and my mother to clean my place. And also why I'm certain I'll have a maid when I get married.

Ive learned that if you stand your ground and refuse to do something someone else will do it for you.

 

[ambergirl]

That would be passive aggressive behavior.

Maybe. But like I said earlier I don't think there's enough there to say that's what it is. If he's always been that way then why would she think he would be any different when they got married? I am of the camp of if you married a man who's a certain way why are you expecting him to up and be different just because you're wearing rings?

And if this is a new thing, I still think it sounds more like depression then anything else. It's one thing to not do what your wife wants, it's another thing to let things devolve into pure nastiness (if in fact that's happening).

 

[Mortons]

I was wondering this as well. It reminds me of a former seamstress. Her house was filthy and smelled musty but when you saw her and her family on the street, they were clean and well put together. You would've never known.

We stopped going by her because though she was excellent (self taught) and she steam pressed your clothing before giving it to you to mark the seams, we got tired of having to wash our clothing every single time we got it and re-iron it ourselves.

Some people really just do grow up with a filthy house as normal. My long term ex was a similar manner, just not as bad. They were always physically clean, but their idea of a clean home was a lot different than my idea of clean. I realized when I went home with them for the first time that they grew up that way, with junk stacked everywhere and where a swept floor and no dishes meant "spotless".

I wasnt able/willing to change them and when someone grows up like that I dont think change will be grasped as easily.

 

[Lilmama1011]

This is how I used to get my friends, exes and my mother to clean my place. And also why I'm certain I'll have a maid when I get married.

Ive learned that if you stand your ground and refuse to do something someone else will do it for you.

I will end up getting a maid as well because SO doesn't care. As fast as I clean it's messed up so I give up

 

[Farida]

I don't think it's passive aggressive. People hide all kinds of messes from other people - emotional, spiritual, physical. Yet at home where they are comfortable and away from strangers all hell breaks loose.

It is not uncommon to meet people who only clean up when guests are coming over or have neat living rooms and garish bedrooms. Even with hoarders there are some who have a public front but have garages full of trash and junk. On one episode a woman had such a nice home but she was spending tens of thousands a month renting storefronts and storage areas to hoard her junk.

 

[Farida]

I'm still not getting this maid thing. Someone like me can't live in clutter at all. I couldn't wait a week or two for a maid to come. I still wouldn't be satisfied. Him and his daily messes would annoy me. For instance, say I wash the dishes, and he just comes in the kitchen and make a mess afterwards, it would burn my soul. And I'm not a neat freak. But I don't like things out of order. It's very disruptive to my psyche. I know I have true ocd tendencies. Living with someone like that would cause me to become depressed.

But since it is such a big deal to you wouldn't it be a poor choice for you to marry someone who you know is messy and then be upset? Expecting that person to change all of a sudden would be like someone expecting you to just stop being bothered by clutter. Cleaning causes those types of people as much stress as not having things clean causes you. Otherwise they would just do it.

The man needs to try and improve and the woman will have to learn to adjust her expectations. Even if he improves he may never get to the level she expects. Sometimes people change but sometimes they don't.

 

[Evolving78]

But since it is such a big deal to you wouldn't it be a poor choice for you to marry someone who you know is messy and then be upset? Expecting that person to change all of a sudden would be like someone expecting you to just stop being bothered by clutter. Cleaning causes those types of people as much stress as not having things clean causes you. Otherwise they would just do it.

The man needs to try and improve and the woman will have to learn to adjust her expectations. Even if he improves he may never get to the level she expects. Sometimes people change but sometimes they don't.

But just like you said, some people hide their messiness. And my thing is about respect and consideration. People always bring their representatives into the relationship, not always revealing their true self. If I clean and you come right behind me and mess up, I feel like that is a lack of consideration and disrespect. It's just like when someone will mess up a public bathroom. They feel some type of entitlement. They can get away with it, since someone else will clean it up. And there are people that get married with the intent of treating their spouse like a maid.

That's where all of this get a maid stuff is bothering me. It's just that easy to get a maid, instead of trying to pick up some socks, or wash a plate out on your own for the sake of your marriage? Let's just mess up the house and pay Barbara or Juanita to come in and clean. That's why on those shows, they have the people get counseling and home organizers to teach them how to live and maintain better. Not get a maid to but a bandage on the problem. He needs to learn how to respect his home and be considerate of others.

Why did he ask her to marry him, knowing he was a slob? He knew his wife like cleanliness and order, yet he married her anyway. Now he gotta hear her nagging and not get any meals, or sex. Too much giving this slob a pass and not making him take responsibillity by throwing blame on the wife or just getting a maid is unsettling.

And now that I am a little wiser, I know what to look for beyond someone just cleaning up for company, or saying they like to live in a clean home during marriage counseling. I know I have said a lot, but this issue is a deal breaker for me. I can tolerate some things other women would not, but I gotta have order in my home and I let someone know how I am from jump. You don't get surprised from me.

 

[janaq2003]

The truth of the matter is there is no excuse for a grown man to be nasty like that.

 

[barbiesocialite]

But just like you said, some people hide their messiness. And my thing is about respect and consideration. People always bring their representatives into the relationship, not always revealing their true self. If I clean and you come right behind me and mess up, I feel like that is a lack of consideration and disrespect. It's just like when someone will mess up a public bathroom. They feel some type of entitlement. They can get away with it, since someone else will clean it up. And there are people that get married with the intent of treating their spouse like a maid.

That's where all of this get a maid stuff is bothering me. It's just that easy to get a maid, instead of trying to pick up some socks, or wash a plate out on your own for the sake of your marriage? Let's just mess up the house and pay Barbara or Juanita to come in and clean. That's why on those shows, they have the people get counseling and home organizers to teach them how to live and maintain better. Not get a maid to but a bandage on the problem. He needs to learn how to respect his home and be considerate of others.

Why did he ask her to marry him, knowing he was a slob? He knew his wife like cleanliness and order, yet he married her anyway. Now he gotta hear her nagging and not get any meals, or sex. Too much giving this slob a pass and not making him take responsibillity by throwing blame on the wife or just getting a maid is unsettling.

And now that I am a little wiser, I know what to look for beyond someone just cleaning up for company, or saying they like to live in a clean home during marriage counseling. I know I have said a lot, but this issue is a deal breaker for me. I can tolerate some things other women would not, but I gotta have order in my home and I let someone know how I am from jump. You don't get surprised from me.

There are a number of possibilites:

-maybe he didn't hide it. maybe she didnt care at first, dismissed it as a mildly bothersome issue or maybe she initially started reflexively picking up after him or cleaning for her own comfort when she would visit him.

As the old adage goes: "you don't know someone until you live with them."

Visiting or staying overnight is different from living with someone. What was a mild annoyance or avoidable before because an entirely different story once it becomes your life. Some people overestimate themselves. Some people simply lack self-awareness to realistically assess a situation to accurately estimate their actual behavior once in that situation. They don't know what they can or can't live with--hence high divorce rates.

A friend of mine married a messy man. She knew he was messy before she married him but I don't think she realized the extent of his messiness. I honestly dont think she realized how much it would truly bother her once they moved in together. Now she has a serious problem on her hands.

Speaking from my perspective: I'm slick. I'll invite people over while my place is messy because I know the clutter will annoy so much they'll reflexively start cleaning or picking up stuff. Or sometimes they will come back like a fully stocked janitor with an agenda ready to clean house because it bothered them so much. Matter of fact, I'm hygenic but purposely messy. I want someone to know. Why? Because they need to know who they are dealing with. I'm not the martyr or perfect woman type. I AM NOT that woman. This chick right here is the kind you are prepared to hire a maid. And give her a room in the house to herself to throw her junk in. lol Let's keep that clear-- I cook, stroke egos & don't nag but cleaning is not my thing.

Fortunately, like most women, I attract men similar to my father. Lucky for me, my father was a control freak and a neat freak. Ever watched Sisqo's episode of Wife Swap where he was obsessed with maintaing the house? that's my dad. Part of it was his personality, the other part was because he was a homeowner who built his house from the ground up. My mother is different now but when they first married she was the family baby, fresh out the nest. Even though she had chores at her parents house, maintaing a household was new to her. So from my personal experience with parents and SOs, being messy isnt something I know to be a deal breaker. People fuss but they get over it. lol

Funny thing is I know several spoiled well-kept & educated grown women who have filthy apartments/houses with animals n ish. Their SOs don't seem care.

What one person won't do another will. If this guy is anything like me all those petty games like withholding sex and cooking will not work. I'm patient. Good things come to those who wait. I can go toe to toe and stand my ground or I'll just get someone else to do it. I don't succumb to peer pressure or intimidation. If there's something I don't want to do, I won't do it. period. *ye shrug*

 

[Evolving78]

There are a number of possibilites:

-maybe he didn't hide it. maybe she didnt care at first, dismissed it as a mildly bothersome issue or maybe she initially started reflexively picking up after him or cleaning for her own comfort when she would visit him.

As the old adage goes: "you don't know someone until you live with them."

Visiting or staying overnight is different from living with someone. What was a mild annoyance or avoidable before because an entirely different story once it becomes your life. Some people overestimate themselves. Some people simply lack self-awareness to realistically assess a situation to accurately estimate their actual behavior once in that situation. They don't know what they can or can't live with--hence high divorce rates.

A friend of mine married a messy man. She knew he was messy before she married him but I don't think she realized the extent of his messiness. I honestly dont think she realized how much it would truly bother her once they moved in together. Now she has a serious problem on her hands.

Speaking from my perspective: I'm slick. I'll invite people over while my place is messy because I know the clutter will annoy so much they'll reflexively start cleaning or picking up stuff. Or sometimes they will come back like a fully stocked janitor with an agenda ready to clean house because it bothered them so much. Matter of fact, I'm hygenic but purposely messy. I want someone to know. Why? Because they need to know who they are dealing with. I'm not the martyr or perfect woman type. I AM NOT that woman. This chick right here is the kind you are prepared to hire a maid. And give her a room in the house to herself to throw her junk in. lol Let's keep that clear-- I cook, stroke egos & don't nag but cleaning is not my thing.

Fortunately, like most women, I attract men similar to my father. Lucky for me, my father was a control freak and a neat freak. Ever watched Sisqo's episode of Wife Swap where he was obsessed with maintaing the house? that's my dad. Part of it was his personality, the other part was because he was a homeowner who built his house from the ground up. My mother is different now but when they first married she was the family baby, fresh out the nest. Even though she had chores at her parents house, maintaing a household was new to her. So from my personal experience with parents and SOs, being messy isnt something I know to be a deal breaker. People fuss but they get over it. lol

Funny thing is I know several spoiled well-kept & educated grown women who have filthy apartments/houses with animals n ish. Their SOs don't seem care.

I totally get all of this. I know I couldn't stay married to someone like that. I'm not some germophobe neat freak, but I need things to be orderly. I can't function right if it isn't. I don't feel it's a problem, since I feel there is a method to my madness. But I take it very personal when I work hard to maintain an orderly home, and someone just takes advantage of it, or for granted. I feel like they don't care about my feelings. I'm very clear about those feelings. So that person knows exactly what they are getting themselves into. I even tell them to read up on it. I feel if you are a mess maker, you don't need to be with someone that isn't.

 

[barbiesocialite]

I totally get all of this. I know I couldn't stay married to someone like that. I'm not some germophobe neat freak, but I need things to be orderly. I can't function right if it isn't. I don't feel it's a problem, since I feel there is a method to my madness. But I take it very personal when I work hard to maintain an orderly home, and someone just takes advantage of it, or for granted. I feel like they don't care about my feelings. I'm very clear about those feelings. So that person knows exactly what they are getting themselves into. I even tell them to read up on it. I feel if you are a mess maker, you don't need to be with someone that isn't.

I think this is fair and a realistic expectation.

Water seeks it's own level.

You mentioned passive-aggressiveness of the behavior. I think that some women find themselves in this situation because they likely approached the situation avoidantly or passive aggressively themselves.

I am vocal about my double-standard. I might be messy but I expect my SO to be neat and orderly. It's my clear standard. Non-negotiable. period. point blank. That's exactly what I get. The only messy person I've ever had to experienced is myself. Folks clean when they know I'm on the way over because I'll probably say something if it's a mess--with exceptions being depression/moving/decorating etc. When they come over to my place they know I ain't cleanin ish! No shame in my game.

 

[ambergirl]

^^^ sometimes it's helpful to depersonalize stuff like this. I have a family member who is similar to you, very, very picky about cleanliness and order. And constantly mad when people aren't living up to her standards or make "messes" after she's cleaned up. Truth is her standards are just not realistic for most people. Nothing personal about it.

I literally have been in her house finished a glass of water left it on the counter to go get the pitcher to get some more and she has come up behind me swooped up the glass and put it in the dishwasher within seconds. She has thrown away important papers and documents because someone had the audacity to leave something on top of a dresser for more then a few minutes.

I don't take it personally because that's who she is and i try to accommodate, but I've also realized that the constant cleaning and complaining will continue no matter what you do because that's just who she is so I don't go out of my way either. All relationships are about give and take. At least with a partner to some extent you have an idea what you're getting upfront.

 

[Evolving78]

^^^ sometimes it's helpful to depersonalize stuff like this. I have a family member who is similar to you, very, very picky about cleanliness and order. And constantly mad when people aren't living up to her standards or make "messes" after she's cleaned up. Truth is her standards are just not realistic for most people. Nothing personal about it.

I literally have been in her house finished a glass of water left it on the counter to go get the pitcher to get some more and she has come up behind me swooped up the glass and put it in the dishwasher within seconds. She has thrown away important papers and documents because someone had the audacity to leave something on top of a dresser for more then a few minutes.

I don't take it personally because that's who she is and i try to accommodate, but I've also realized that the constant cleaning and complaining will continue no matter what you do because that's just who she is so I don't go out of my way either. All relationships are about give and take. At least with a partner to some extent you have an idea what you're getting upfront.

I will admit, I'm like this and I will throw things away. You can't have a little area to yourself, because I will clean it, or organize it to how I see fit. My kids know that if something is out of place, don't let me see it or I will throw it away. I don't like mess making activities or toys and these people have the nerve to be into arts and crafts! Lol I have tried in the past to not be so anal about it, but as I get older, it becomes more apparent that this is who I am, or have come to be. Dealing with someone opposite of that would drive me insane. And it would become a fight or flight situation for me. I just hope that couple can work it out, but I know it couldn't be me. He sounds like boyfriend material and not life mate/partner material. And I know I am not perfect. I am a perfectionist. Big difference.

 

[*CherryPie*]

Sex wouldn't happen if he had to do the good scrubbing in that nasty bathroom.

Reach agreement that common shared areas are to be kept clean (hire maid if need be), let him have his nasty bathroom, good scrubbing before sex, and then let it go. Not worth the agitation.

 

[Mortons]

I think this is fair and a realistic expectation.

Water seeks it's own level.

You mentioned passive-aggressiveness of the behavior. I think that some women find themselves in this situation because they likely approached the situation avoidantly or passive aggressively themselves.

I am vocal about my double-standard. I might be messy but I expect my SO to be neat and orderly. It's my clear standard. Non-negotiable. period. point blank. That's exactly what I get. The only messy person I've ever had to experienced is myself. Folks clean when they know I'm on the way over because I'll probably say something if it's a mess--with exceptions being depression/moving/decorating etc. When they come over to my place they know I ain't cleanin ish! No shame in my game.

Which is exactly why I don't think its wrong to have expected this woman to do her due diligence and not married this man knowing his extreme messiness. He likely aint changing so now she has stuck herself in a situation where she is unhappy, after trying to avoid it for as long as she could

 

[Farida]

I wonder how long she dated the guy? There is something to be said about marrying someone you met in college. There is nothing that my DH does that surprises me. Even when he does something that upsets me if I look back I cannot honestly tell you I had never had any inclination or hint that he would do or say such things.

Since I knew him when we were both in college, I hung out a lot with him in very relaxed settings, I would drop by his dorm room unannounced often and I interacted with him in so many different scenarios. There really was no time or room for him to hide himself and his habits from me.

Many people only get to know people in dating mode, where you only see each other when you have called and planned in advance and majority of the time you are doing fun, romantic, structured events. There is plenty of time I suppose, to hide and ignore so many things about each other.

 

[barbiesocialite]