should i STAY WITH MY HUSBAND IF HE RAPES ME?

[kurlybella]

In response to the op, yeah, if someone comes to a conclusion that is against the Bible, that is wrong.

People say "God told me x, y, and z" all the time. And what they mean most of the time is "I really feel x, y, or z." We think if it's something we feel really strongly about then God must be behind us. That's not so.

Rape is physical violence and we are in no way required to stay in abusive situations. Remarriage is an entirely different question, however.

remarriage is not allowed unless widowed or abandoned. that's clear cut in the bible. i'm talking actual verses, not manmade interpretations.

of course we should not stay in a violent relationship, however, there is no verse that says we can DIVORCE for this reason, which is the point of my thread.

so the question still stands, if you do something deamed a sin in the bible, in this case divorcing your rapist husband, is it still wrong? or did jesus want to you stay with him - jesus himself said that adultry - meaning sleeping with someone else -- no matter how much a new defintion we try to give to it now - is the ONLY ground for divorce (less abandonment which is mentioned in corinthians).

i find that people rationalize this in many different ways, so i wanted to have a discussion about this.

 

[comike]

Would you stay with your husband if he beat you....because they're basically the same.

 

[MizzBrown]

Would you stay with your husband if he beat you....because they're basically the same.

People do it all day everyday too..and they still together.

 

[divya]

remarriage is not allowed unless widowed or abandoned. that's clear cut in the bible. i'm talking actual verses, not manmade interpretations.

of course we should not stay in a violent relationship, however, there is no verse that says we can DIVORCE for this reason, which is the point of my thread.

so the question still stands, if you do something deamed a sin in the bible, in this case divorcing your rapist husband, is it still wrong? or did jesus want to you stay with him - jesus himself said that adultry - meaning sleeping with someone else -- no matter how much a new defintion we try to give to it now - is the ONLY ground for divorce (less abandonment which is mentioned in corinthians).

i find that people rationalize this in many different ways, so i wanted to have a discussion about this.

Not sure if I answered your question directly initially. Personally, I believe it is wrong to divorce him. You should physically remove yourself from being around him though, for your own safety.

 

[TrustMeLove]

Not sure if I answered your question directly initially. Personally, I believe it is wrong to divorce him. You should physically remove yourself from being around him though, for your own safety.

I'm on my phone and quoted the wrong post. But to Kurls post. Rape is sexual immorality and therefore grounds for divorce. Thats what I believe. As far as abuse I consider that grounds for divorce too. I dont have the book with me where I read it and the scriptures of course..but legally I would divorce that person in a hot quick second.

Spiritually. I'm sure that folks can back it up with there scriptures that if a man is beating you down you can separate but not divorce. I believe that the marriage convenant was broken and is grounds for separation minimum. I need to find my book for anything.

But by the mercies of God I hope to never be in that situation. However. I know that TmL would be divorced and thats not of no natural thats of the spirit too.

 

[kayte]

not only that, for ME - SPEAKING FOR KURLYBELLA - i'm not a long sufferer! and never will be. one time, hit me once, rape me once, i'm out out out!!!

OP I'm confused.... you kind of answered your own question..
but if you are asking..for sake of "discussion"

does the bible condone divorce on this issue....
Jesus stated on grounds of sexual immorality divorce is permissble
rape qualifies

okay?

how can a woman even look at her man the same after rape???? him holding you down, ripping off your pantes, causing scars in a dry unreponsive vagina and him putting his hands over your mouth and possibly a knife to your neck as you beg for mercy.

I don't get and am sad and angry about the post.
why that was necessary....we know what rape is
and it is completely insensitive to post that
if there are members who survived or still healing from that trauma.

 

[Almaz]

I dont' think G-d would be pleased at you being abused and you are still letting it happen.

 

[GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I]

It could be that his intent wasn't to have a real marriage in the first place. That would make it a non-marriage. Was something missing that would have made it a holy union in the first place? Psychological issues, haste to marry, this abusiveness factor? These would not have made it a true marriage in the first place...not according to the model of Christ. Just getting hitched don't make you stuck to an abuser for life. This is how women are mistreated worldwide, from century to century.

 

[kurlybella]

OP I'm confused.... you kind of answered your own question..
but if you are asking..for sake of "discussion"

does the bible condone divorce on this issue....
Jesus stated on grounds of sexual immorality divorce is permissble
rape qualifies

okay?




I don't get and am sad and angry about the post.
why that was necessary....we know what rape is
and it is completely insensitive to post that
if there are members who survived or still healing from that trauma.

of course i had to answer my own question since i asked it.

i don't think rape qualifies as the word is written. it specifically addresses this immorality to be adultery, but i guess it all depends on what translation of the bible we all read and what denomination since everyone is entitled to translate the bible as they see fit. it does not even say you can leave a husband who beats you, but that's neither here nor there.

either way, whether it qualified or not, i would leave my husband and not bat an eye doing so.

i'm sorry that you feel that it's insensitive, i didn't feel that way. we post very descriptive things on this board, however i apologize if you feel offended.

 

[kurlybella]

People do it all day everyday too..and they still together.

but whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy?????????????? no, really, why would you stay with someone who beats you down????

 

[kurlybella]

Would you stay with your husband if he beat you....because they're basically the same.

or like women who stand by their serial killer husbands. why??????????

 

[GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I]

Umm, if my husband...

physically, emotionally, sexually, verbally, or any other kind of "ally" abuses myself or my children then I'm getting divorced...and if God doesn't like it, then I guess I'd be going to hell...

but, I would ask myself if that relationship was meant for me from the beginning...was I listening to God in the first place? were there signs I ignored? did people in the church who I trusted tell me I shouldn't marry that person? was I just being hardheaded and chose to turn a blind eye? If so, then I already sinned just by getting married to someone who God didn't set out for me.

I'm a strong believer that people show their arse way before you get married...maybe not with you personally, but with somebody (an ex, a family member, etc). People don't all of a sudden become abusers when they're 35. So if I ended up in this situation, I'd have to blame myself for not using the common sense God gave me.

Not really. Abusers are mastermind manipulators. I know of one in my congregation that not only abused her, when she divorced him, he lured her to their property/previous home together on some "business," killed her, then weighted her down and threw her in the pond. His friends still stuck by him after it all. This was an exemplary wife and mother...went to Mass every morning of every day and raised her children in the parish school. He had his friends...manipulated them for support as well. But "it's all her fault."

 

[divya]

I don't get and am sad and angry about the post.
why that was necessary....we know what rape is
and it is completely insensitive to post that
if there are members who survived or still healing from that trauma.

Really sorry you were offended but it seems like she was trying to explain the brutality at all...and why she would not want to stay with anyone who did that to her. People have discussed rape very explicitly here. It's not to be disrespectful and not saying that she has, but how would you really know that she hasn't experienced exactly what she is speaking of? I commend her for apologizing but it's not necessarily insensitive or meant to be. JMHO...

 

[aribell]

remarriage is not allowed unless widowed or abandoned. that's clear cut in the bible. i'm talking actual verses, not manmade interpretations.

of course we should not stay in a violent relationship, however, there is no verse that says we can DIVORCE for this reason, which is the point of my thread.

so the question still stands, if you do something deamed a sin in the bible, in this case divorcing your rapist husband, is it still wrong? or did jesus want to you stay with him - jesus himself said that adultry - meaning sleeping with someone else -- no matter how much a new defintion we try to give to it now - is the ONLY ground for divorce (less abandonment which is mentioned in corinthians).

i find that people rationalize this in many different ways, so i wanted to have a discussion about this.

Well, I didn't say that women in such situations should "divorce" their husband, so there wasn't a man-made interpretation given. I think that Jesus said what He said, and that's that. There's nothing about Jesus' teachings on divorce that imply that a woman being abused must remain under the same roof as her husband. Besides, such physical violence being illegal, the husband should be in jail anyway.

What would I personally do if I found myself in that situation right now? Leave my husband and remain separated permanently. I probably would not consider myself "divorced" or seek to become legally divorced, nor would I see myself as free to remarry, since I would still be married. People may or may not be able to accept that, but I genuinely believe that God does not force us to marry and it being a free choice, if I marry then I have to take full responsibility for that choice, good or bad. So, I think that is a consistent biblical position.

I'm not sure that there are any more verses to be added than the ones that have already been pointed out.

 

[msa]

Not really. Abusers are mastermind manipulators.

IMO, denial can be very strong and render a person completely blind to someone's faults. But, if I ended up with an abuser I'd have to question myself first. Did I ask all the hard questions? Did I know this person well enough? Did I make sure to get to know his family and friends? Did we have counseling beforehand? Did I ignore signs or red flags?

Abusers may be great manipulators, but I don't believe that they can completely hide their true nature/abilities from EVERYONE. At some point they abused something or someone and in the interest of protecting myself and my future children, it's my job to find that out. If I don't take the necessary precautions, then I think I have some fault in the situation.

 

[divya]

Well, I didn't say that women in such situations should "divorce" their husband, so there wasn't a man-made interpretation given. I think that Jesus said what He said, and that's that. There's nothing about Jesus' teachings on divorce that imply that a woman being abused must remain under the same roof as her husband. Besides, such physical violence being illegal, the husband should be in jail anyway.

What would I personally do if I found myself in that situation right now? Leave my husband and remain separated permanently. I probably would not consider myself "divorced," nor free to remarry. People may or may not be able to accept that, but I genuinely believe that God does not force us to marry and it being a free choice, if I marry then I have to take full responsibility for that choice, good or bad. So, I think that is a consistent position.

Beautifully said. I agree wholeheartedly.

 

[kurlybella]

Well, I didn't say that women in such situations should "divorce" their husband, so there wasn't a man-made interpretation given. I think that Jesus said what He said, and that's that. There's nothing about Jesus' teachings on divorce that imply that a woman being abused must remain under the same roof as her husband. Besides, such physical violence being illegal, the husband should be in jail anyway.

What would I personally do if I found myself in that situation right now? Leave my husband and remain separated permanently. I probably would not consider myself "divorced" or seek to become legally divorced, nor would I see myself as free to remarry, since I would still be married. People may or may not be able to accept that, but I genuinely believe that God does not force us to marry and it being a free choice, if I marry then I have to take full responsibility for that choice, good or bad. So, I think that is a consistent biblical position.

I'm not sure that there are any more verses to be added than the ones that have already been pointed out.

wow, very, very interesting perspective. and thanks so much for sharing!!

to me this is a by the book reaction to the situation since i don't see rape as adultery as i've always believed that when jesus said sexual immorality he meant cheating - but this has many interpretations for many different people.

 

[Almaz]

But there are millions of women all around the world that stay in abusive marriages because as they say in Arabic Inshallah if it is G-d's will.

How can you serve G-d in a proper way when you are being raped and Getting your behind whipped six ways from the Sabbath. I Truly believe that I dont' think G-d intended for anyone to be in an Abusive relationship and stay there to please G-d. I don't think G-d would be that cruel and unjust for you to stay there and constantly being hurt and molested by someone that SUPPOSEDLY loves you.

This is not G-dly and this is not love. No matter what religion you are. You would not want anyone to be in that situation so why would you want to be in that situation. For Years I have seen women stay in bad abusive relationships almost to the point of death and death itself because they feel that it is G-d's will that they are in this situation. And there are men you will pull this religious doctrine out of the blue to Justify the abuse and keep it going because they too say it is G-ds will and you MADE me hit you.

I volunteer at a women's shelter and I see the revolving door of women are TRY AND TRY AND TRY to make it work with these abusive men but they get the revolving door going.

They go to chuch they pray their husbands say that they are going to reform they act right for a hot minute to make the women THINK that he has changed and then it starts ALL over again and they come right back to the Shelter.

Now I am in now way saying that an Abuser cannot be reformed through pray and deep serious counseling and I do mean deep introspect as to why they are so angry and why they hit and abuse the people that they are supposed to love ususally they were abused themselves but some I have run across are just arseholes Period and they do it because they are sadistic and they can.

But why burden the brunt of that just so you can get your rewards in heaven or to say that you are serving G-d. That is myrtardomis, Nihilistic and fatalistic to me and I cannot justify it on any religous doctrine Mine and everyone elses to stay in an abusive situation.

3 years ago we had a woman at the shelter that was going to move to Atlanta we helped her get a job through a network we have down there. Well she was ALL set to go and her husband was doing the same ole snow job. Oh baby you KNOWSSS I LOVVEEESSS you. I wil never EVA hit you again. HE swore before G-d and man in front of the preacher in front of everyone that he is okay and he has repented and profusely apologised for hitting her and causing her so much pain. Okay over time handling this woman's case I have seen her come back and forth and time and time again he eyes are blackened blind in one of them almost her teeth are missing her nose was broken 3 times bruises all over her body and bald patches from her husband dragging her by her hair.

the last time was because...............................................................

All because she was late coming home on the Train so SHE MUST have been with another *****h as he puts it. Actually yeah since you put it that way MY COUSIN who is a plastic surgeon who was going to patch her face up pro bono and my other cousin who was going to patch her mouth up with some new teeth PRO BONO and as you all know dental work aint' cheap. Well she got all the work done and she was looking good and feeling good about herself. Soon as she was about to leave months later he was like let me meet you someplace lets have dinner and talk I dont' want you to go maybe I should go with you to start a new life. I was like DON"T tell him what you are doing GET THE HELL OUTTA Chicago and MOVE to Atlanta and Follow your dreams and have a better life for you and your children. Well he follows her home after dinner to her sisters house Barges in the door starts a HUGE fight trying to prevent her from leaving Chicago when she SAID that he was going to go with her and and shoots her dead in front of her children. But before he shoots her her sister told me that he said OH now you got all this work done you thanks you Pretty now. I am NOT going to let you go to Atlanta and be with some *****h I will kill you AND the kids. You ain't nothing but a used up BEYATCH. If I can't have you NO ONE can. You ain't no Christian you supposed to STAND by your husband cause that is what the Scriptures say !!!!!???????

She is dead the man in serving life in Jail. The kids have no parents. Her sister and her told me before she was killed that her husband and her were getting back together and they are moving to Atlanta together to start a new life. And now that he is going to church it is all good. I KNEW he was just playing a game with her faith and I was right.

At the funeral this man had the NERVE to call the house and say can someone go to the house and MOVE my stuff to my mothers cause I am going to be locked up for awhile. WTH. At the shelter this is not the exception this is the norm.

That was the day I was thinking about resigning from the Shelter because it was too much to handle at the time becuase there was so much promise and hope GONE POOF just like that.

This is what I have experienced and it hurts to see lovely women in this situation. In Africa and the Middle East it is different because Women don't have the resources like the do here to get out of this situation and it is REALLY REALLY dangerous in some places Like Jordan and Saudi Arabia. As beautiful and as wonderful as those countries are there are still women's issues that need to be addressed.

Let me ask another question and no offense intended I am just going by what I see with abusive situations.

Do you think that you can be a servant of G-d on this earth when you are abused and your children are abused and you are depressed, rejected beat up and beat down hurt discombobulated, confused and possibly DEAD? Or do you really think that you have to stay in an abusive situation or you will not be considered a good Religous person

Love should not hurt

 

[Almaz]

Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy. Abusers are usually great Sociopaths that can fool everyone into believing that they are these GREAT and wonderful people. Sociopaths can have some of the BEST BS detectors fooled. And when the truth FINALLY comes out people are like HIM HER NAWWW HE/SHE was the NICEST person a great neighbour and all around good person I just cannot believe that they would do something like that. I just cannot believe it.

Sociopaths and abusers are great actors

IMO, denial can be very strong and render a person completely blind to someone's faults. But, if I ended up with an abuser I'd have to question myself first. Did I ask all the hard questions? Did I know this person well enough? Did I make sure to get to know his family and friends? Did we have counseling beforehand? Did I ignore signs or red flags?

Abusers may be great manipulators, but I don't believe that they can completely hide their true nature/abilities from EVERYONE. At some point they abused something or someone and in the interest of protecting myself and my future children, it's my job to find that out. If I don't take the necessary precautions, then I think I have some fault in the situation.

 

[kurlybella]

Not sure if I answered your question directly initially. Personally, I believe it is wrong to divorce him. You should physically remove yourself from being around him though, for your own safety.

i get what you are saying and this again is a by the book response. this is amazing, i've just never heard more than 0 people say that they would stay before today. they just always seek out some translation of the bible that says that they can leave.

and you know, i should be clear here, i don't agree that you should only be able to leave your husband if he sleeps with someone else. there are lots of ways he can bring down your family and hurt it, therefore i feel we should be able to divorce under those circumstances.

however, jesus did not say it was okay.

i'm unconventional when it comes to how i feel about many things in the bible, however, i did want to start a discourse on this topic.

thanks for responding ladies!

 

[Renewed1]

I found this on a site. The person was asking about fornication but it pertains to rape (or other sexual sins) as well. As for physical abuse (hitting, etc) use COMMON SENSE, separate yourself from the danger. You can't divorce unless a sexual sin was committed; which in my personal experiences from friends. If your hubby is beating on you more and likely he's cheating (adultery) grounds for divorce.

Perhaps then, the first step should be to determine what the biblical definition of "sexual immorality" is and what the writers of the New Testament understood it to be. The New American Standard New Testament Greek Lexicon transliterates the word "porneia" and defines it as:

1. illicit sexual intercourse (rape, etc)
a. adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.
b. sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18
c. sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mk. 10:11

Hebrews 13:4 Amp.

Let marriage be held in honor (esteemed worthy, precious, of great price, and especially dear) in all things. And thus let the marriage bed be undefiled (kept undishonored); for God will judge and punish the unchaste [all guilty of sexual vice] and adulterous.

 

[kurlybella]

Let me ask another question and no offense intended I am just going by what I see with abusive situations.

Do you think that you can be a servant of G-d on this earth when you are abused and your children are abused and you are depressed, rejected beat up and beat down hurt discombobulated, confused and possibly DEAD? Or do you really think that you have to stay in an abusive situation or you will not be considered a good Religous person

Love should not hurt

your story!!!

 

[divya]

i get what you are saying and this again is a by the book response. this is amazing, i've just never heard more than 0 people say that they would stay before today. they just always seek out some translation of the bible that says that they can leave.

and you know, i should be clear here, i don't agree that you should only be able to leave your husband if he sleeps with someone else. there are lots of ways he can bring down your family and hurt it, therefore i feel we should be able to divorce under those circumstances.

however, jesus did not say it was okay.

i'm unconventional when it comes to how i feel about many things in the bible, however, i did want to start a discourse on this topic.

thanks for responding ladies!

Yes, there is some of us who do believe in physical separation rather than divorce. There are quite a few different views about whether or not divorce is allowed in other circumstances. For me, the Scriptures seem very clear though.

Also, I actually don't believe that adultery only involves sleeping with someone else, but that's a whole different story though.

 

[msa]

Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy. Abusers are usually great Sociopaths that can fool everyone into believing that they are these GREAT and wonderful people. Sociopaths can have some of the BEST BS detectors fooled. And when the truth FINALLY comes out people are like HIM HER NAWWW HE/SHE was the NICEST person a great neighbour and all around good person I just cannot believe that they would do something like that. I just cannot believe it.

Sociopaths and abusers are great actors

There are very few true sociopaths running around so most people have never encountered any. As far as abusers go, they don't suddenly start abusing late in their lives so it's safe to say, someone knew or suspected what type of person they were before you entered the picture.

Anyway, we'll just have to agree to disagree. In my experience, abusers don't have to hide who and what they are because people (family members, girlfriends, etc.) let them continue on with no consequences. They don't just flip the script once they've been with you a few years, there are always clues beforehand.

 

[GV-NA-GI-TLV-GE-I]

IMO, denial can be very strong and render a person completely blind to someone's faults. But, if I ended up with an abuser I'd have to question myself first. Did I ask all the hard questions? Did I know this person well enough? Did I make sure to get to know his family and friends? Did we have counseling beforehand? Did I ignore signs or red flags?

Abusers may be great manipulators, but I don't believe that they can completely hide their true nature/abilities from EVERYONE. At some point they abused something or someone and in the interest of protecting myself and my future children, it's my job to find that out. If I don't take the necessary precautions, then I think I have some fault in the situation.

I know what you mean, some fault. But I'm just saying that women cannot see all there is to the iceberg before your boat hits it so if one finds oneself in such, they shouldn't necessarily blame themselves solely. Family and such, that's what we call sendig the family representative lol. Sure, there are some signs...but too often, people not in that situation will wonder how the heck a woman ended up like that...and nobody knows until they get in one then they write a book lol. I'm not at all saying not to be careful. We have to use more of our intuition about people.

 

[Almaz]

Ture to some extent but you'd be surprised and there many more Sociopaths walking around than beter realise and true there are signs that people see or choose not to. With some of the women at Shelter are nice educated women from good familes they NEVER thought that would be in that situation until they are in it

There are very few true sociopaths running around so most people have never encountered any. As far as abusers go, they don't suddenly start abusing late in their lives so it's safe to say, someone knew or suspected what type of person they were before you entered the picture.

Anyway, we'll just have to agree to disagree. In my experience, abusers don't have to hide who and what they are because people (family members, girlfriends, etc.) let them continue on with no consequences. They don't just flip the script once they've been with you a few years, there are always clues beforehand.

 

[coconow2007]

sexual immorality encompasses rape, it is immoral to rape someone - therefore ok to divorce him

 

[DarlingNikki]

remarriage is not allowed unless widowed or abandoned. that's clear cut in the bible. i'm talking actual verses, not manmade interpretations.

I hate to say this, but the Bible is full of inconsistencies. Deuteronomy 24 doesn't classify a remarriage a sin (e.g. adultery). If you read the passage, the woman is allowed to remarry after her husband has issued her a divorce. The only "detestable" thing mentioned is if the woman returns to a man she has already divorced after she has been remarried to another.

24 If a man marries a woman who becomes displeasing to him because he finds something indecent about her, and he writes her a certificate of divorce, gives it to her and sends her from his house, 2 and if after she leaves his house she becomes the wife of another man, 3 and her second husband dislikes her and writes her a certificate of divorce, gives it to her and sends her from his house, or if he dies, 4 then her first husband, who divorced her, is not allowed to marry her again after she has been defiled. That would be detestable in the eyes of the Lord. Do not bring sin upon the land the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance

 

[divya]

I hate to say this, but the Bible is full of inconsistencies. Deuteronomy 24 doesn't classify a remarriage a sin (e.g. adultery). If you read the passage, the woman is allowed to remarry after her husband has issued her a divorce. The only "detestable" thing mentioned is if the woman returns to a man she has already divorced after she has been remarried to another.

Guess I don't see that as an inconsistency because of the context. The Bible is also a history book, and it gives an account of God's relationship with Israel. Those were laws given to their culture. That does not mean that is how God truly intended things, but sometime they were given because of the time and customs. If He had no done so, who knows what would have become of the people He chose to be His witnesses to the world.

For example, Deuteronomy 22 states that when a woman is unbethrothed, and a man rapes her, then he must marry her. That sounds despicable to us now but it likely makes sense then. No other men would probably marry her because of that, so the Lord instructed that the man marry her so that someone provide for her. He is never allowed to divorce her and he must pay her father.

 

[DarlingNikki]

Guess I don't see that as an inconsistency because of the context. The Bible is also a history book, and it gives an account of God's relationship with Israel. Those were laws given to their culture. That does not mean that is how God truly intended things, but sometime they were given because of the time and customs. If He had no done so, who knows what would have become of the people He chose to be His witnesses to the world.

For example, Deuteronomy 22 states that when a woman is unbethrothed, and a man rapes her, then he must marry her. That sounds despicable to us now but it likely makes sense then. No other men would probably marry her because of that, so the Lord instructed that the man marry her so that someone provide for her. He is never allowed to divorce her and he must pay her father.

See, this is where I always get confused. So since the Bible is also a history book, with each passage tailored to the customs of a certain time period, would it be a fair to assert that most scriptures are now outdated? How do we differentiate between what should and should not be heeded in this day and age? Is this a man-made decision ? I mean, I understand the OT vs NT, but I have seen scripture from the OT used more times than I can count to validate an argument. For example, Leviticus when referring to gay's...