Living with The Passive Aggressive man - When He Withholds Sex.

[Evolving78]

I understand your point but it is still up to the individual person to decide how much information they would need to go through something as traumatic as divorce. Maybe for you the evidence would be enough, but that is not the case for everyone.

I understand everybody has a limit. But divorce isn’t the topic right now. Right now OP is hurting because she isn’t getting what she needs and is feeling lonely. Right now it’s just about shifting focus, changing the energy and putting it into good use. Sitting around trying to figure out the why, isn’t gonna fix the void. She can’t make him doing anything he doesn’t want to do right now. What she can do is work on self, fill the void in other ways.

 

[hopeful]

This right here is it. And honestly, this thread has me thinking about some things in my own relationship. Nothing as serious as this, but the alignment of words and actions. Women (in general) really need to step back and see..not with their hearts if what they are getting (and giving) is aligned with what's being said. A lot of time we don't listen when things are uneasy "because he says......"

I don't see why she can't learn what she needs to learn while getting prepared for whatever the answers are.

Yes . Our bodies, our gut, our natural instincts, pick up on something being off before our brains catch up. That’s why we have to slow down and pay attention, not let people sweep us off our feet. As women we have to learn to detach emotionally as needed so that we can see the truth. People can say anything really. I can say the sky is green if I want to. But that is not true. I can say that I love someone with all my heart. Words are lovely but only if they line up with action and only if those actions are sincere and feel right.

We need to engage all three of our brains: the one in our head; our hearts, and our gut. As women we often let our hearts take the lead. But our hearts need the support of the brain in our heads and our gut. We need all three to be safe in the world and to make good choices for ourselves.

 

[hopeful]

If it were me I’d hire a private detective. May turn up information. May not. But at this point it couldn’t hurt. And may even provide supporting evidence should a divorce take place. And even in a no fault state having evidence is still helpful for negotiations. And it just can’t hurt to know more if possible. The truth will set you free.

 

[hopeful]

This video is about The Gift of Fear, a book about safety. But the author who is speaking here talks about the importance of intuition and how it is there to keep us safe. The information can be applied to all situations including romantic ones. He explains how denial serves a purpose but can also undermine our intuition. At about 9:30 he explains this.

 

[PrissiSippi]

I don’t think he’s cheating...I’m starting tonthin

If it were me I’d hire a private detective. May turn up information. May not. But at this point it couldn’t hurt. And may even provide supporting evidence should a divorce take place. And even in a no fault state having evidence is still helpful for negotiations. And it just can’t hurt to know more if possible. The truth will set you free.

Thats if I cared enough.

Going through his phone or hiring someone included.

I’m not sure I’m still tryna figure out how I truly feel but I could give a flying flip what he’s doing. I want my needs met and these bills paid so I stay in the correct headspace and I can nurture my son very hands-on and have peace in my house.

I’m starting to think my husband is asexual. But he is not open enough to tell me this. Because in society this would mean he has a problem. Doesn’t explain the friends thing but the common theme is you don’t accept me for who I am.

Other than this last didn’t come home he has NEVER done this which is why I’m so hurt. In fact he wants to spend a lot of time with me but the problem is sex is on top of my list and it’s on the bottom of his. It’s like he strictly wants to be my friend and take care of me without sex. Which would be great....if I weren’t hyper sexual.

I dunno. I’ve been just detaching myself, trying not to rationalize everything so much and just calming down. My headspace is all negative and I wasn’t like this two weeks ago. I need to get back to that calmness.

 

[GreenEyedJen]

I was in a relationship with a man that withheld sex, and that was the reason we broke up. I loved him so much, but I couldn't be in a sexless relationship forever. I asked him about it and he stated he was uncertain about what I was doing in the relationship. Basically he was being passive aggressive. He couldn't voice his issues with me so he withheld, and then it was a cycle. I'd go out because I knew we weren't gonna bang and I wanted to have SOME kind of fun on my weekends and he'd get upset and then we wouldn't bang when I got home, either.

Before him, I was the type to withhold sex and that relationship really opened my eyes. I don't believe in using sex or the lack of it as "punishment" in a relationship. (I actually don't believe in punishing a partner at all.) It made for a messy and sad breakup and it really did wear down the relationship before I left him.

 

[hopeful]

Hang in there @PrissiSippi. We are here if and when you need us.

For now enjoy your baby boy and take care of yourself. Enjoy the holidays, be happy. Everything will work itself out.

 

[Evolving78]

I don’t think he’s cheating...I’m starting tonthin

Thats if I cared enough.

Going through his phone or hiring someone included.

I’m not sure I’m still tryna figure out how I truly feel but I could give a flying flip what he’s doing. I want my needs met and these bills paid so I stay in the correct headspace and I can nurture my son very hands-on and have peace in my house.

I’m starting to think my husband is asexual. But he is not open enough to tell me this. Because in society this would mean he has a problem. Doesn’t explain the friends thing but the common theme is you don’t accept me for who I am.

Other than this last didn’t come home he has NEVER done this which is why I’m so hurt. In fact he wants to spend a lot of time with me but the problem is sex is on top of my list and it’s on the bottom of his. It’s like he strictly wants to be my friend and take care of me without sex. Which would be great....if I weren’t hyper sexual.

I dunno. I’ve been just detaching myself, trying not to rationalize everything so much and just calming down. My headspace is all negative and I wasn’t like this two weeks ago. I need to get back to that calmness.

See there. That’s why I said it isn’t all about sex. These women will have you hiding in bushes and putting spyware on his electronics. Sometimes things are much deeper than that. Check out Sam Vaknin. He has a book, website, and YouTube channel.

 

[hopeful]

@GreenEyedJen
Thank you for sharing that. You really made me think about something I never thought about before. In good, healthy relationships withholding and punishing is not present. We punish children to teach them when they are young. Maybe withhold a toy or treat if they have misbehaved. The criminal justice system punishes criminals for committing crimes. It withholds their freedom from them.

When sex and/or intimacy is withheld in a romantic relationship the other person feels badly, like they are being punished, even if they didn’t do anything wrong. The person withholding is being punishing, taking on a position of strength. As many have said it is about power and control.

I too have withheld sex as well when I was angry or hurt. I thought I was doing what was best for me. But I realize now that it is a sign of something much deeper, a sign that secrets are being kept, safety is not present, power is being wielded, and something is very wrong in the relationship.

When I am upset with my children I don’t withhold affection. When I am angry with a friend I don’t give her the silent treatment. We work things out, we talk, we move forward. Or with a friend we might break up and move on.

And I’m not saying we should have sex if we are deeply hurt or feel unsafe. I’m saying if problems can’t be resolved and we don’t feel safe, something is very wrong.

So many of us don’t know what a good, healthy relationship looks like. We don’t know what true love and healthy romantic partnership looks or feels like. So when we are being denied affection we don’t understand what that means or don’t want to accept what that means. When we feel so unsafe and hurt that we don’t want to have sex, we don’t understand how serious it is that we feel that way.

It’s a lot to ponder.

 

[hopeful]

See there. That’s why I said it isn’t all about sex. These women will have you hiding in bushes and putting spyware on his electronics. Sometimes things are much deeper than that. Check out Sam Vaknin. He has a book, website, and YouTube channel.

Good point. This thread has gotten very deep. Mistreatment and neglect is unacceptable, period.

@PrissiSippi thank you for being so candid, open, and honest. You are helping others as you try to help yourself.

 

[GreenEyedJen]

Thank you for sharing that. You really made me think about something I never thought about before. In good, healthy relationships withholding and punishing is not present. We punish children to teach them when they are young. Maybe withhold a toy or treat if they have misbehaved. The criminal justice system punishes criminals for committing crimes. It withholds their freedom from them.

When sex and/or intimacy is withheld in a romantic relationship the other person feels badly, like they are being punished, even if they didn’t do anything wrong. The person withholding is being punishing, taking on a position of strength. As many have said it is about power and control.

I too have withheld sex as well when I was angry or hurt. I thought I was doing what was best for me. But I realize now that it is a sign of something much deeper, a sign that secrets are being kept, safety is not present, power is being wielded, and something is very wrong in the relationship.

When I am upset with my children I don’t withhold affection. When I am angry with a friend I don’t give her the silent treatment. We work things out, we talk, we move forward. Or with a friend we might break up and move on.

And I’m not saying we should have sex if we are deeply hurt or feel unsafe. I’m saying if problems can’t be resolved and we don’t feel safe, something is very wrong.

So many of us don’t know what a good, healthy relationship looks like. We don’t know what true love and healthy romantic partnership looks or feels like. So when we are being denied affection we don’t understand what that means or don’t want to accept what that means. When we feel so unsafe and hurt that we don’t want to have sex, we don’t understand how serious it is that we feel that way.

It’s a lot to ponder.[/USER]

Exactly. Exactly. I had to be on the other side to understand the points you expressed.

It is a whole lot, especially when you haven't been shown what is healthy. I'm so lucky that when I decided to get serious about finding a partner, I had my parent's marriage as a model. My Mom has been a wealth of information, and I'm in an amazing relationship that I wouldn't have been ready for if I didn't have her guidance and support. Relationships are more work than being alone.

Edit: I don't know why my whole post is linked

 

[LivingInPeace]

@PrissiSippi I’ve been telling myself not to comment on your posts for a very long time. I don’t have any advice for you but I want to to tell you how your posts come across to me. It usually seems like you don’t like your husband for who he is but for what you think he should become.

 

[LostInAdream]

@PrissiSippi I’ve been telling myself not to comment on your posts for a very long time. I don’t have any advice for you but I want to to tell you how your posts come across to me. It usually seems like you don’t like your husband for who he is but for what you think he should become.

I have to agree with this. I was the same way with my soon to be exH. I was just trying to make him become the person i knew he could become. Did all these things to have my life the way I wanted there was no way he was going to be left behind. Granted i shouldn’t have married him in the first place but i never want to make anyone feel like i made him feel. He wasn’t enough for me but instead of leaving him alone i tried to fix him to fit my narrative. He did a lot of things that caused our breakup but I know ultimately it was just him being him.

I learned so much from this marriage about myself. I can’t control anyone but myself. Take care of myself before others including DD. Set boundaries and don’t bend them for anyone. Happiness first!

Good luck with whatever you decide. Please focus on your happiness and everything will become clear.

 

[PrissiSippi]

@PrissiSippi I’ve been telling myself not to comment on your posts for a very long time. I don’t have any advice for you but I want to to tell you how your posts come across to me. It usually seems like you don’t like your husband for who he is but for what you think he should become.

I will agree to this. I do not. I feel like
He is a good person but he needs tweaking to be great. But lately I’ve been trying to figure out what being accepting looks like.

This stems from a lot in my childhood.

My mother “tweaked” me a lot and I feel like this is okay to do with others. But st the end of the day you’re only responsible for you.

 

[LivingInPeace]

I will agree to this. I do not. I feel like
He is a good person but he needs tweaking to be great. But lately I’ve been trying to figure out what being accepting looks like.

This stems from a lot in my childhood.

My mother “tweaked” me a lot and I feel like this is okay to do with others. But st the end of the day you’re only responsible for you.

I think you need to decide if you want a husband or a project.

 

[PrissiSippi]

I think you need to decide if you want a husband or a project.

Lol definitely not a project. It’s a project that never ends.

 

[PrissiSippi]

Yes . Our bodies, our gut, our natural instincts, pick up on something being off before our brains catch up. That’s why we have to slow down and pay attention, not let people sweep us off our feet. As women we have to learn to detach emotionally as needed so that we can see the truth. People can say anything really. I can say the sky is green if I want to. But that is not true. I can say that I love someone with all my heart. Words are lovely but only if they line up with action and only if those actions are sincere and feel right.

We need to engage all three of our brains: the one in our head; our hearts, and our gut. As women we often let our hearts take the lead. But our hearts need the support of the brain in our heads and our gut. We need all three to be safe in the world and to make good choices for ourselves.

And this is true too because I remember I made a post about cold feet ten months before our wedding. However he treats me nicer than any man has ever treated me and he was very consistent so I stayed. But now he does plenty of sweet with slick passive aggressive stuff in between thrown in.

 

[hopeful]

Thank you @LivingInPeace and @LostInAdream for what you shared. Very enlightening.

 

[ArrrBeee]

Read this yesterday and it relates to a lot of what we've discussed:

You are reading from the book The Language of Letting Go

Difficult People

Few things can make us feel crazier than expecting something from someone who has nothing to give. Few things can frustrate us more than trying to make a person someone he or she isn't; we feel crazy when we try to pretend that person is someone he or she is not. We may have spent years negotiating with reality concerning particular people from our past and our present. We may have spent years trying to get someone to love us in a certain way, when that person cannot or will not.

It is time to let it go. It is time to let him or her go. That doesn't mean we can't love that person anymore. It means that we will feel the immense relief that comes when we stop denying reality and begin accepting. We release that person to be who he or she actually is. We stop trying to make that person be someone he or she is not. We deal with our feelings and walk away from the destructive system.

We learn to love and care differently in a way that takes reality into account.

We enter into a relationship with that person on new terms - taking our needs and ourselves into account. If a person is addicted to alcohol, other drugs, misery, or other people, we let go of his or her addiction; we take our hands off it. We give his or her life back. And we, in the process, are given our life and freedom in return.

We stop letting what we are not getting from that person control us. We take responsibility for our life. We go ahead with the process of loving and taking care of ourselves.

We decide how we want to interact with that person, taking reality and our own best interests into account. We get angry, we feel hurt, but we land in a place of forgiveness. We set him or her free, and we become set free from bondage.

This is the heart of detaching in love.

Today, I will work at detaching in love from troublesome people in my life. I will strive to accept reality in my relationships. I will give myself permission to take care of myself in my relationships, with emotional, physical, mental, and spiritual freedom for both people as my goal.

From The Language of Letting Go by Melody Beattie ©1990, Hazelden Foundation.

 

[PrissiSippi]

Read this yesterday and it relates to a lot of what we've discussed:

You are reading from the book The Language of Letting Go

Difficult People

Few things can make us feel crazier than expecting something from someone who has nothing to give. Few things can frustrate us more than trying to make a person someone he or she isn't; we feel crazy when we try to pretend that person is someone he or she is not. We may have spent years negotiating with reality concerning particular people from our past and our present. We may have spent years trying to get someone to love us in a certain way, when that person cannot or will not.

It is time to let it go. It is time to let him or her go. That doesn't mean we can't love that person anymore. It means that we will feel the immense relief that comes when we stop denying reality and begin accepting. We release that person to be who he or she actually is. We stop trying to make that person be someone he or she is not. We deal with our feelings and walk away from the destructive system.

We learn to love and care differently in a way that takes reality into account.

We enter into a relationship with that person on new terms - taking our needs and ourselves into account. If a person is addicted to alcohol, other drugs, misery, or other people, we let go of his or her addiction; we take our hands off it. We give his or her life back. And we, in the process, are given our life and freedom in return.

We stop letting what we are not getting from that person control us. We take responsibility for our life. We go ahead with the process of loving and taking care of ourselves.

We decide how we want to interact with that person, taking reality and our own best interests into account. We get angry, we feel hurt, but we land in a place of forgiveness. We set him or her free, and we become set free from bondage.

This is the heart of detaching in love.

Today, I will work at detaching in love from troublesome people in my life. I will strive to accept reality in my relationships. I will give myself permission to take care of myself in my relationships, with emotional, physical, mental, and spiritual freedom for both people as my goal.

From The Language of Letting Go by Melody Beattie ©1990, Hazelden Foundation.

I needed this especially the bolder

 

[momi]

I think you need to decide if you want a husband or a project.

Ouch. You are stepping all on my toes. Every single one.

 

[Bklynqueen]

Long post:

The thing with your husband not wanting you to meet his friends is for his benefit and his benefit alone. From my personal experience, severe PA's are experts at Jedi mind tricks and sabotage. PA men, especially, will bad mouth you and ruin your reputation to his friends, family and co- workers without your knowledge because PA's go to great lengths to make sure that their behavior will never be reported back to you. I think this is why he refuses to have you meet his friends; he doesn't want to get caught in a lie or a potential conflict.

Him texting another woman, withholding sex, not coming home, etc is to boost his ego and to regain control of the relationship while creating insecurity in you. This is his way to control and manipulate your emotions so you can get upset with him and he can continue to play the "henpecked" husband role. When you fall for it, he is secretly pleased that he has made a puppet out of you and for a weak person, that is a huge win.

I have noticed PA men tend to choose women who appear strong, confident, assertive or self assured; personalities that they themselves wish they had. Unfortunately, what they are attracted to are the very ones they resent because they themselves lack those traits so they seek ways to humble you since they can't be like you. Their whole goal is to make sure that you don't get what you want.

@PrissiSippi - My heart goes out to you, it truly does. I understand exactly what you are going through and I also had a child with my PA ex-fiancé so I understand the complications. His passive aggressiveness is what forced me to break our engagement. Whatever you do, don't treat his passive aggressiveness by being passive aggressive too- that backfires. The best way to deal with him is to treat him with indifference. When he sees your change in attitude, he will become worried and make an attempt to be kinder and more attentive. Unfortunately that is a temporary solution and once he feels safe in his role in the relationship, he will go back to his old ways. The only way he will stop is if he recognizes that he is the problem and seek therapy to resolve it.

Prissi, I want you to take time out and reflect on what you really want for yourself and this relationship. Good luck and I truly wish the best for you.

 

[hopeful]

@PrissiSippi
I hope you realize that so many people are posting because we care about you AND because so many of us have been in your shoes, found our way out, and lived to tell the story. You are stronger than you know. Deep inside of you there is more power and strength than you realize. That’s the other reason we keep replying. We see it and feel it.

 

[PrissiSippi]

@PrissiSippi
I hope you realize that so many people are posting because we care about you AND because so many of us have been in your shoes, found our way out, and lived to tell the story. You are stronger than you know. Deep inside of you there is more power and strength than you realize. That’s the other reason we keep replying. We see it and feel it.

I do! I haven’t been posting much because I don’t know what to say. I’m a little lost right now. So I’ve just taken some time to figure out a. What is MY end result. B. What is it that I WANT. C. What’s my plan out.

I’m not a rude person. I don’t want to be rude to my husband. I dropped the things from yesterday (the arguement got waaaaaay worse). We got to arguing because I offered to go to his holiday party. He told me family wasn’t invited. What? I asked him about it. He told me just because it doesn’t make sense doesn’t mean I’m lying. He made me feel crazy for questioning it. Then I told him whatever it is he is doing is it worth losing his family over. He turned victim again and said if I decide to keep his child against him fine. But me and him have no connection. I don’t know how to not argue with a passive aggressive person. What I don’t understand is that I would never win.

I just snapped and started screaming and went out of control with my bff asking me to stop repeatedly but I didn’t listen because it’s not fair and I try hard. Anybody else would be BLESSED to have a wife like me in their life.

I’m confused because what is a girl to do. I feel like I left him off the hook for his bad behavior and I have never done that. I nag nag and nag to get what I want. He NEVER apologized. He has starting giving fake apologies like I am sorry you feel that way when I say you really hurt my feelings. And he claims he ordered my authorized card that he has been procrastinating on. And we woke up like nothing was wrong.

So I just don’t post much in here. I don’t know what to say.

 

[PrissiSippi]

Long post:

The thing with your husband not wanting you to meet his friends is for his benefit and his benefit alone. From my personal experience, severe PA's are experts at Jedi mind tricks and sabotage. PA men, especially, will bad mouth you and ruin your reputation to his friends, family and co- workers without your knowledge because PA's go to great lengths to make sure that their behavior will never be reported back to you. I think this is why he refuses to have you meet his friends; he doesn't want to get caught in a lie or a potential conflict.

Him texting another woman, withholding sex, not coming home, etc is to boost his ego and to regain control of the relationship while creating insecurity in you. This is his way to control and manipulate your emotions so you can get upset with him and he can continue to play the "henpecked" husband role. When you fall for it, he is secretly pleased that he has made a puppet out of you and for a weak person, that is a huge win.

I have noticed PA men tend to choose women who appear strong, confident, assertive or self assured; personalities that they themselves wish they had. Unfortunately, what they are attracted to are the very ones they resent because they themselves lack those traits so they seek ways to humble you since they can't be like you. Their whole goal is to make sure that you don't get what you want.

@PrissiSippi - My heart goes out to you, it truly does. I understand exactly what you are going through and I also had a child with my PA ex-fiancé so I understand the complications. His passive aggressiveness is what forced me to break our engagement. Whatever you do, don't treat his passive aggressiveness by being passive aggressive too- that backfires. The best way to deal with him is to treat him with indifference. When he sees your change in attitude, he will become worried and make an attempt to be kinder and more attentive. Unfortunately that is a temporary solution and once he feels safe in his role in the relationship, he will go back to his old ways. The only way he will stop is if he recognizes that he is the problem and seek therapy to resolve it.

Prissi, I want you to take time out and reflect on what you really want for yourself and this relationship. Good luck and I truly wish the best for you.

Indifference. Okay I got it.

“The opposite of love is not hate it’s indifference. This is because hateshoes you still care about someone”

@PeaceLover told me the same thing. She told me to at least act like I don’t give a darn for a few months until I get my stuff together and just drop the bomb to move. But I’m a little confused how this looks too because I treat him well. Do I continue to treat him well. We got to arguing that I don’t support him. So do I support him more? Do I go out on dates with him? Do I push it or what? Do I play games back when I act indifferent? Let’s say he says he won’t be home tonight. Do I act indifferent but not at home when he comes back??

 

[hopeful]

I just wanted you to know why we kept posting. At least why I think we are. Please don’t feel pressured to post until and unless you want to.

 

[ArrrBeee]

At this point, I think that you should privately reach out to a few posters who are skilled at dealing with PA men.

My fear is that the world is small and you're in a virtual chess match. I don't want your next moves to be posted, only to see them backfire because of someone on here. A while back, a poster we all dearly loved was betrayed by another LHCF member who I think was her husband's relative.

 

[PrissiSippi]

At this point, I think that you should privately reach out to a few posters who are skilled at dealing with PA men.

My fear is that the world is small and you're in a virtual chess match. I don't want your next moves to be posted, only to see them backfire because of someone on here. A while back, a poster we all dearly loved was betrayed by another LHCF member who I think was her husband's relative.

True. Very true.

 

[hopeful]

True. Very true.

If you remove your post I will edit what I wrote too.

 

[PrissiSippi]

If you remove your post I will edit what I wrote too.

I did.