I Didn't Love My Wife When We Got Married...

[Britt]

I feel there is some truth to this. If more people treated this relationships with their SO like they do their friends, then I think there wouldn't be so many underlying issues. Friendships are the foundation to everything.

I agree with this too ... I think your spouse should be your best friend... but a best friend that's more than a friend.

 

[barbiesocialite]

I agree with this and find it to be very true regarding friendships. This is how I now choose who I want close to me and who I don't.. i.e some of the friendships of my 20s.
I'm not saying to build a relationship on warm fuzzy feelings solely. That's a recipe for disaster. Actually, that's not what I mean at all. I mean having an attraction to a person where you can see them as your lover, your spouse, your partner, your friend, provider, etc ... When I say attraction I don't also mean someone that looks physically great -- we are all attracted to different traits and qualities that arouse us. Attraction is more than just tall, dark, and handsome. It's really a combination of a lot. So I was just wondering, if you could marry someone whom you don't have a desire to be with sexually, intimately, etc. I just think if you don't find your spouse attractive in that way intially and that light switch never really gets turned on, would you be happy with that? Just thinking out loud here. If that's the case, couldn't you two simply be roomates or besties that live together? I just couldn't willingly go into a marriage with that mindset early on. It's different if you've been together for yearssssss upon yearrrssssss.

Idk... even skimming the random thoughts in the marriage thread, even if the wives are annoyed by their DH, many of them will follow up with a comment like "i love me so him" "DH put the business down" "after xyz years I LOVE that man". You need some type of chemistry to fall back on too.

Most women that I know have emphasized chemistry are or end up divorced.

TBH, I think marrying for love AND divorce are very immature mindsets.

 

[ScorpioBeauty09]

Sorta OT but not really: I firmly believe how you handle friendships is a major indicator how you handle relationships. It shows why/how/who one is likely to emotional invest in general.

I agree with this generally but I also think that how someone gets along with their family determines how they are in relationships, with SOs or friendships. Those I'm closest to have close bonds with their family like I do. IME people don't treat their friends or SOs any differently. How you treat one person is how you treat everyone. Besides friendships can be deceiving. I've seen too many long-time friendships that I thought were tight fall apart seemingly out of the blue.

 

[barbiesocialite]

I actually say that how someone gets along with their family determines how they are in relationships, with SOs or friendships. Those I'm closest to have close bonds with their family. IME people don't treat their friends or SOs any differently. How you treat one person is how you treat everyone. Besides friendships can be deceiving. I've seen too many long-time friendships that I thought were tight fall apart seemingly out of the blue.

Maybe that says a lot about you, no?

I've had the same friends for years. We go up and down, in and out, off and on, disappointed and heartbroken at times. You work through it and ride it out. That's it. If you really love someone and they love you back. You work past the shallowness of the surface and rudimentary emotions to dig deeper. I know one thing is for sure, if I had to feel good even most of the time about certain people/things to associate my closest friends with love---we sure as hell wouldnt be friends all these years. They are some selfish moronic arseholes sometimes, and so am I.

Family I feel can be deceptive. Blood ties and genetic favoritism and allegiances can be deceptive. People wired to be attached or to love you. Hard to tell how much of it is based on integrity, emotional investment and freewill.

To maintain, friendships and relationships require a lot of work and maintenance. doing things you dont want to do when you dont don feel like doing them. the honeymoon is never forever. you fall in and out of love, lust and infatuation with friends/lovers many times. If being in love is the investment, you might as well call it over before it starts.

 

[Harina]

Right! US dating is very hard as I find men from all races looking for crap that doesn't matter long term and looking for that instant fire that we are inundated with in movies, books, media from birth. As soon as that initial lust fire calms down whether you color or not, they're on to the next adrenaline rush, hoping for that fire to burn again--forever. Its unfortunate, but my best connections were with non-Americans or First Generation Americans.

Care to give examples?

 

[DarkJoy]

I agree with this generally but I also think that how someone gets along with their family determines how they are in relationships, with SOs or friendships. Those I'm closest to have close bonds with their family like I do. IME people don't treat their friends or SOs any differently. How you treat one person is how you treat everyone. Besides friendships can be deceiving. I've seen too many long-time friendships that I thought were tight fall apart seemingly out of the blue.

Not really to the bolded. I know people and myself treated my spouse very differently than my family of origin and friends. Example--I dont need to talk to my parents everyday, we're not even very close. However, I NEED to talk to my husband daily and communicate throughout the day. Also my BFF, I'm happy with talking to her 2x a week but not daily. And as extreme examples emotional, physical or verbal abusers are not exactly like cherry pie to their wives but everyone else outside the immediate family swears left and right that he was so charming.

 

[DarkJoy]

Care to give examples?

That Disney nonsense we're fed as I spoke to earlier and as mentioned in the OP. And the other stuff that men still living in fantasy land look for that dies for a woman after their first child is born. Which, btw, depending on demographics is really ridiculous. I'm dating 40-50yo (American) men who still want black barbie and have rainbow sparks like Cinderella? Like really?

THe non-Americans, on the other hand are looking at other things. Immediately, IME, its about family-how're you're raising your kids and (could) raise theirs, where you're at career-wise/financially, -they really tend to want to dig in to your daily life and routines, help you find solutions to problems, talk money and how things could work or not on the combined income, what your plans are for the future goals--more importantly the steps to reach them, etc. It's very pragmatic/practical as @barbiesocialite keeps illustrating in her personal relationship style. Sure they are attracted to you but they look past that very quickly--say in a month's time.

I have had American men find me beautiful (others not those idiots ) but they dont let the superficial GO. FOr months on end it's about how cute/beautiful, gorgeous, blahblah. They KEEP BRINGING IT UP. THe non-Amers establish my magnetism and move on to the important meat of a relationship I mention above. FOr every 5 of those I might meet 1 American who dates more pragmatically as opposed to emotionally/lustfully.

 

[Harina]

That Disney nonsense we're fed as I spoke to earlier and as mentioned in the OP. And the other stuff that men still living in fantasy land look for that dies for a woman after their first child is born. Which, btw, depending on demographics is really ridiculous. I'm dating 40-50yo (American) men who still want black barbie and have rainbow sparks like Cinderella? Like really?

THe non-Americans, on the other hand are looking at other things. Immediately, IME, its about family-how're you're raising your kids and (could) raise theirs, where you're at career-wise/financially, -they really tend to want to dig in to your daily life and routines, help you find solutions to problems, talk money and how things could work or not on the combined income, what your plans are for the future goals--more importantly the steps to reach them, etc. It's very pragmatic/practical as @barbiesocialite keeps illustrating in her personal relationship style. Sure they are attracted to you but they look past that very quickly--say in a month's time.

I have had American men find me beautiful (others not those idiots ) but they dont let the superficial GO. FOr months on end it's about how cute/beautiful, gorgeous, blahblah. They KEEP BRINGING IT UP. THe non-Amers establish my magnetism and move on to the important meat of a relationship I mention above. FOr every 5 of those I might meet 1 American who dates more pragmatically as opposed to emotionally/lustfully.

I agree. I always assumed that I would marry or have my longest relationship with a non-American man. In my experience, I find that they are less hung up on looks as well.

 

[hopeful]

I need to "feel" in love and loved. However, over the long haul actions are what keep me in love. Saying you love me, knowing you feel love for me means NOTHING at all if it isn't supported by lots of action, chivalry, devotion, hard work, paying attention to my needs, doing and showing.

 

[ladysaraii]

I need to "feel" in love and loved. However, over the long haul actions are what keep me in love. Saying you love me, knowing you feel love for me means NOTHING at all if it isn't supported by lots of action, chivalry, devotion, hard work, paying attention to my needs, doing and showing.

I was thinking of this some more. I agree with you completely. It's the combo of feeling and action. Without actions the feelings die, but all the actions in the world won't create feelings if the potential isn't there.

 

[ScorpioBeauty09]

Maybe that says a lot about you, no?

No more than your posts say a lot about you. I have a tight knit family and I've gathered from your posts, you don't. IME most friendships are temporary and very much determined by proximity. You're right friendships, like familial relations take a lot of work to maintain but few people outside my immediate family seem willing to do it. The people who put in the time and effort to maintain a friendship with me happen to be those who are close with their families.

 

[SincerelyJane]

I'm glad the couple in the OP found what works for them. It sounds like there were a lot of cultural factors at play there.

I don't think it's unreasonable that I want to be in love with the man I marry. I was talking to my mom and she brought up a point that Americans date longer than women in her culture did, which ends up being a good thing in that we are better able to vet our husbands.

All the women she knew got married at around 18-19. Some divorced, some are either cheating or dealing with cheating husbands, very few are happy. My mom's BFF has the most functional marriage I've seen outside of my parents, but my parents are unique.

 

[barbiesocialite]

No more than your posts say a lot about you. I have a tight knit family and I've gathered from your posts, you don't. IME most friendships are temporary and very much determined by proximity. You're right friendships, like familial relations take a lot of work to maintain but few people outside my immediate family seem willing to do it. The people who put in the time and effort to maintain a friendship with me happen to be those who are close with their families.

well alright.

Hope it all works out for you.

 

[barbiesocialite]

I'm glad the couple in the OP found what works for them. It sounds like there were a lot of cultural factors at play there.

I don't think it's unreasonable that I want to be in love with the man I marry. I was talking to my mom and she brought up a point that Americans date longer than women in her culture did, which ends up being a good thing in that we are better able to vet our husbands.

All the women she knew got married at around 18-19. Some divorced, some are either cheating or dealing with cheating husbands, very few are happy. My mom's BFF has the most functional marriage I've seen outside of my parents, but my parents are unique.

Americans have the highest divorce rate. erplexed

There's an old article posted in OT (not sure of the link) that shows arranged marriages have, on average, higher long-term happiness outcomes then standard American romantic-based marriages.

 

[Incognitus]

Right! US dating is very hard as I find men from all races looking for crap that doesn't matter long term and looking for that instant fire that we are inundated with in movies, books, media from birth. As soon as that initial lust fire calms down whether you color or not, they're on to the next adrenaline rush, hoping for that fire to burn again--forever. Its unfortunate, but my best connections were with non-Americans or First Generation Americans.

Ditto.

Family I feel can be deceptive. Blood ties and genetic favoritism and allegiances can be deceptive. People wired to be attached or to love you. Hard to tell how much of it is based on integrity, emotional investment and freewill.

I've had to learn this the hard way...from my own siblings.

 

[zora]

I'm glad the couple in the OP found what works for them. It sounds like there were a lot of cultural factors at play there.

I don't think it's unreasonable that I want to be in love with the man I marry. I was talking to my mom and she brought up a point that Americans date longer than women in her culture did, which ends up being a good thing in that we are better able to vet our husbands.
All the women she knew got married at around 18-19. Some divorced, some are either cheating or dealing with cheating husbands, very few are happy. My mom's BFF has the most functional marriage I've seen outside of my parents, but my parents are unique.

I think you're missing the fact that many parents-in other cultures- are vetting spouses for their children long before the children are even hip to it. My son is two and I'm already eying a couple who hasn't had their first child yet . But I like the couple, they have the same values as I do. I know their daughter will be a stunner (at least I'm praying), and she will be smart.

Whether he listens to me or not will be ultimately up to him, but I'm basing criteria on relatibility, intelligence, compatiblity and values. So if he chooses to listen to his 'emotions' or 'penile submission', he will be essentially playing the lottery.

Let's just say I wish I listened to my mothererplexed. Now I'm stuck .

 

[SincerelyJane]

Americans have the highest divorce rate. erplexed

There's an old article posted in OT (not sure of the link) that shows arranged marriages have, on average, higher long-term happiness outcomes then standard American romantic-based marriages.

I think you're missing the fact that many parents-in other cultures- are vetting spouses for their children long before the children are even hip to it. My son is two and I'm already eying a couple who hasn't had their first child yet . But I like the couple, they have the same values as I do. I know their daughter will be a stunner (at least I'm praying), and she will be smart.

Whether he listens to me or not will be ultimately up to him, but I'm basing criteria on relatibility, intelligence, compatiblity and values. So if he chooses to listen to his 'emotions' or 'penile submission', he will be essentially playing the lottery.

Let's just say I wish I listened to my mothererplexed. Now I'm stuck .

barbiesocialite
zora
re: Sometimes people will speak of other people's cultural norms even if they have very little experience or real knowledge of them. Its easy to idealize something you know little about. These other cultures you speak of, can you name them specifically? Did you grow up in that culture? The lack of divorce does not a happy (or healthy) marriage make. Obviously.

America has a different attitude towards divorce than other countries. Also women have a lot more opportunities to develop independence and earn income prior to marriage, and a lot more resources and support available to them should they divorce. This gives them a lot of choices that many women across the world just do not have. I don't think America's divorce rate indicates that American marriages are worse than other countries. Millions of women internationally remain in miserable marriages quite simply because they have no other choice, no other way to gain status, income, feed/clothe themselves or their children.

I just read in an article that the divorce rate in Yemen (where arranged child marriages are very common), was a mere 6%, which actually represents a marked increase for that country. I don't think we have to think hard and postulate on why divorce is so rare in that country, where the average age of marriage for a woman is 14. But do you think these teenagers are in happy, healthy marriages? All these husbands were vetted by their families. I'll wait.

I can only speak based on what I know about where I'm from, but at least beliefs are based on knowledge and experience and I'm not idealizing something I know little about. Like I said, of the women in my mom's group of friends, who all married abroad and adhered to the cultural norms of their day (including arranged marriages), very few of them are happily married, and when I talk to some of my peers who share similar backgrounds, this isn't uncommon. My parents are happily married and they chose each other. My grandparents weren't super involved, and if anything, there were a lot of people on my father's side who contested the marriage for dumb reasons like my mother's ethnicity, social status, etc. Thank God my father didn't listen to them, they're going on 30 yrs.

Most of my friends are also immigrant kids. I have had maybe one friend in my entire life who's parents forced an arranged marriage on her. She seems happy. However, most of our parents have recognized that there are flaws in the system and aren't trying to push that particular tradition down into the next generation. The best thing to do is raise your children to know what qualities to value and look for and let them make their own choices and their own mistakes.

Sorry for the essay, I just found your posts condescending. I find it annoying when Americans try to educate people on "other cultures". You don't even know where I'm from.

 

[zora]

barbiesocialite
zora
re: Sometimes people will speak of other people's cultural norms even if they have very little experience or real knowledge of them. Its easy to idealize something you know little about. These other cultures you speak of, can you name them specifically? Did you grow up in that culture? The lack of divorce does not a happy (or healthy) marriage make. Obviously.

America has a different attitude towards divorce than other countries. Also women have a lot more opportunities to develop independence and earn income prior to marriage, and a lot more resources and support available to them should they divorce. This gives them a lot of choices that many women across the world just do not have. I don't think America's divorce rate indicates that American marriages are worse than other countries. Millions of women internationally remain in miserable marriages quite simply because they have no other choice, no other way to gain status, income, feed/clothe themselves or their children.

I just read in an article that the divorce rate in Yemen (where arranged child marriages are very common), was a mere 6%, which actually represents a marked increase for that country. I don't think we have to think hard and postulate on why divorce is so rare in that country, where the average age of marriage for a woman is 14. But do you think these teenagers are in happy, healthy marriages? All these husbands were vetted by their families. I'll wait.

I can only speak based on what I know about where I'm from, but at least beliefs are based on knowledge and experience and I'm not idealizing something I know little about. Like I said, of the women in my mom's group of friends, who all married abroad and adhered to the cultural norms of their day (including arranged marriages), very few of them are happily married, and when I talk to some of my peers who share similar backgrounds, this isn't uncommon. My parents are happily married and they chose each other. My grandparents weren't super involved, and if anything, there were a lot of people on my father's side who contested the marriage for dumb reasons like my mother's ethnicity, social status, etc. Thank God my father didn't listen to them, they're going on 30 yrs.

Most of my friends are also immigrant kids. I have had maybe one friend in my entire life who's parents forced an arranged marriage on her. She seems happy. However, most of our parents have recognized that there are flaws in the system and aren't trying to push that particular tradition down into the next generation. The best thing to do is raise your children to know what qualities to value and look for and let them make their own choices and their own mistakes.

Sorry for the essay, I just found your posts condescending. I find it annoying when Americans try to educate people on "other cultures". You don't even know where I'm from.

But you're doing the same thing that you're complaining about. How can you find the post condescending UNTIL you find out where me and Barbie's roots are from. Save the indignation.

In addition, no offense, but there's a difference between living a culture and it being studied from an ethnographic perspective. I have personally found enlightning facts about my culture through the eyes of an 'outsider'.

To answer your question, I was born in this country, but identify and was raised with my parent's culture. While there I'm not aware of formal arranged marriages, there are many informal (for lack of a better word) arrangements to marry into certain families.

As far as I know, I believe pockets of Americans do this as wellerplexed. Arranged marriages is not just for the poor.

 

[Funmiloves]

I'm glad I came across this article, thanks OP