Yes Kalia, he is. I am not aware of that rule. Do tell. maybe that has something to do with it. . .
He wants me to stop traveling when we get married...
- Thread starter Amante
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Yes Kalia, he is. I am not aware of that rule. Do tell. maybe that has something to do with it. . .
Hi OP,
As a former international traveler myself-- I thought that I could share my opinion as some one that has sort of been there and has the t-shirt... though is with my SO.
I traveled internationally about 75% of the time for about 6 years... I was still in my 20's and it severely hindered many of my relationships.
Of my colleagues that traveled as much as I did, only 3 of us were women. 1 was an older married lady. 2 of us were unmarried, 1 being me --the youngin' and the other lady was 36 ...unmarried and no kids. So that could shed some light on the dynamics.
I knew that if I truly wanted to settle down and get married and have kids, that I would have to leave my job. I didn't need a man to tell me that. I saw the dynamics in my own industry and didn't want to be an old maid.
I also knew that the only reason my job was going great was because I didn't have to worry about a hubby or kids. Travel like that for women, can put serious stress on a relationship and I believe even break up marriages.
I do not believe that you should leave your fiance', simply because I feel that the majority of men will feel the same way, unless you met someone that was also in that profession.
So I ended up leaving that job and I must tell you that I am miserable. I wish I would have taken the time to find another job, where I didn't travel as much, but still traveled... I went from traveling 75% of the time to zilch, zero. And I am dying.
I am currently trying to obtain another job---with some traveling... but this job market is hard... I may be PMing you for a reference, hook-up or something ...
So another option could be where you obtained another job, where you still traveled, but maybe not as much. I mean you do have some time to network and find the right opportunity in the meantime...
I also know of a lady that works for the UN also, that still does all of the traveling, and was blessed enough to find her hubby thru the UN as well, they had a daughter not too long ago.)
So there are options as to what you should do, either way. But make the decision that is going to make you happy - not him, or others... because in the end you will only be miserable.
HTH
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This is excellent advice. But the thing is, he doesn't want me to travel at all. Unless with him, which would mean in the future after marriage, once a year for a holiday when he can get free from work. Highly problematic.
Funny story,
The way this all came up was when he saw me writing an email about my next UN training in Geneva. I could feel him reading the email behind me, over my shoulders, but still, I didn't say anything. So then this big argument breaks out. He called the UN work bull**** and said that "if you really want to help people, come with me and I will show you how to help people in a way you'll never forget."
Then he says, "let's put away $20,000 a year from our income and travel to Sudan or anywhere and do service. Let's do it together."
Well, yea every org has its faults. The UN isnt perfect, neither is dod or the state department. Neither is the NGO I work for currently. But, gosh, to call my work bull****. That really hurt.
He told me I should stop doing fake jobs and fellowships and consultancies and get a "real" job. Settle into a city for more than 1 or 2 years. Plant some roots. In Qatar. . .
I told him that I am not doing fake jobs. Then he asks, "what do you do then?"
I told him "i'm an artist- scholar, and a diplomat. . ." laughter ensues.
He basically just made fun of my career, which really hurt.
I DON'T WANT TO BE 30+ & UNMARRIED. I want to have kids. So I know that eventually I will have to give it up somewhere. . . If not 100% at least pulling back some. And I do envision myself transitioning to a more work from home career when I have kids. So in a way, I think we CAN work. It can work.
One other thing I should mention is I think he is very insecure. For instance, when I came back from Palestine, he looked through my photos and saw a photo with me and 2 of my male colleagues at a work related event. He got FURIOUS. He told me he didn't want me to take one on one photos with other men again. Only in groups. He wouldn't even sit and look at my photos from my Palestine work journey because he was SO JEALOUS! Ladies, I am SO squeaky clean-- so trustworthy-- never have, never will cheat. It's just a photo for crying out loud!
Part of me wonders how much his Arab/ Islamic culture is influencing these thoughts & actions. . .
The way this all came up was when he saw me writing an email about my next UN training in Geneva. I could feel him reading the email behind me, over my shoulders, but still, I didn't say anything. So then this big argument breaks out. He called the UN work bull**** and said that "if you really want to help people, come with me and I will show you how to help people in a way you'll never forget."
Then he says, "let's put away $20,000 a year from our income and travel to Sudan or anywhere and do service. Let's do it together."
Well, yea every org has its faults. The UN isnt perfect, neither is dod or the state department. Neither is the NGO I work for currently. But, gosh, to call my work bull****. That really hurt.
He told me I should stop doing fake jobs and fellowships and consultancies and get a "real" job. Settle into a city for more than 1 or 2 years. Plant some roots. In Qatar. . .
I told him that I am not doing fake jobs. Then he asks, "what do you do then?"
I told him "i'm an artist- scholar, and a diplomat. . ." laughter ensues.
He basically just made fun of my career, which really hurt.
I DON'T WANT TO BE 30+ & UNMARRIED. I want to have kids. So I know that eventually I will have to give it up somewhere. . . If not 100% at least pulling back some. And I do envision myself transitioning to a more work from home career when I have kids. So in a way, I think we CAN work. It can work.
One other thing I should mention is I think he is very insecure. For instance, when I came back from Palestine, he looked through my photos and saw a photo with me and 2 of my male colleagues at a work related event. He got FURIOUS. He told me he didn't want me to take one on one photos with other men again. Only in groups. He wouldn't even sit and look at my photos from my Palestine work journey because he was SO JEALOUS! Ladies, I am SO squeaky clean-- so trustworthy-- never have, never will cheat. It's just a photo for crying out loud!
Part of me wonders how much his Arab/ Islamic culture is influencing these thoughts & actions. . .
Vintageglam
New Member
Hi OP - just bolding below for emphasis. I think you know in your heart that this man is not right for you.
I would really pay attention to the above advice.
You said it yourself. Re-read your own post.
^^^ This is a cultural thing - i.e. my wife only travels with me. It's very Arabic. in Saudia Arabia and other Arabic countries women cannot travel without the consent of their Husband's. I strongly urge you to think about the warning signals he is sending you here. The man is being honest. Take his words at face value,do not try to imagine an alternative best case scenario. Take his words for what they are.
1. He sounds VERY anti-american from the bolded.
2. He doesn't want you to go to Palestine bc let's face it - it is dangerous for American's.
3. Are you happy to just live an word in Qatar for some Multinational??? Remember once your on his turf you play by his rules and cannot leave with your children if things get tough without his permission.
4. This man sounds insecure and controlling.
5. Trust your instincts on this one.
I would really pay attention to the above advice.
You said it yourself. Re-read your own post.
^^^ This is a cultural thing - i.e. my wife only travels with me. It's very Arabic. in Saudia Arabia and other Arabic countries women cannot travel without the consent of their Husband's. I strongly urge you to think about the warning signals he is sending you here. The man is being honest. Take his words at face value,do not try to imagine an alternative best case scenario. Take his words for what they are.
1. He sounds VERY anti-american from the bolded.
2. He doesn't want you to go to Palestine bc let's face it - it is dangerous for American's.
3. Are you happy to just live an word in Qatar for some Multinational??? Remember once your on his turf you play by his rules and cannot leave with your children if things get tough without his permission.
4. This man sounds insecure and controlling.
5. Trust your instincts on this one.
Kalia1
Well-Known Member
I thought so.
In the religion of Islam a woman isn't allowed to travel distances unless they are in the company of a non-mahrem male.
A non-mahrem male is a male where marriage to him is impossible.
For example a father, brother, or son. The number one choice of traveling companion would be the husband himself of course.
There are varying opinions on the distance and length of travel a female can travel without anyone accompanying her.
I believe if you express this to him then he will be forthcoming about the view itself.
However it seems to me that if this is his viewpoint then he should have told you about it from the beginning when he was voicing his apprehensions about you traveling.
Hope this helps
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libertysince05
New Member
that is not true..
libertysince05
New Member
Amante I'm put off by his mocking of you, his possessiviness and him trying to change the rules this late in the game.
Maybe i'm wrong but these are signs of future abuse...
I think he could have expressed his disapproval without any of the above...and the fact that he chose not to, is not good (IMO).
Maybe i'm wrong but these are signs of future abuse...
I think he could have expressed his disapproval without any of the above...and the fact that he chose not to, is not good (IMO).
No? What's your opinion liberty?
JayAnn0513
I make 30 look good!
Don't let the fear of being 30+ and single make marry a man that will mock your dreams and talk down to you. He is showing you his true self BELIEVE HIM! Imaging how it will be once he has you married, jobless, and weighed down by a couple of kids. And he wants you to move to Quatar??? Girl you'll be locked away like a caged bird.
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Keen
Well-Known Member
So many red flags. The ladies with more experience with the Muslim culture have pointed out some good "food for thought". My suggestion to you is that you do not go down the isle without discussing these things. Once you're married, it won't have to agree to anything you say.
MD_Lady
Well-Known Member
How dismissive of him.
It also doesn't sound like he's thought too much about how the compromises he'd be willing to make, but is perfectly content to tell you about how you need to change. 
erplexed Like I said, you have to do what's best for you, but IMO, your values are incompatible with his (and vice versa) and this would cause MAJOR problems if you went ahead with your plans to marry him.ETA:
The more of you post about this guy, the more I
erplexed about your situation. And, IMO, his actions being influenced by culture is irrelevant because you still find them to be hurtful and offensive. You might not want to be 30+ and single, but you don't want to be filled with misery and regret at ANY age.
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ambergirl
Well-Known Member
I work internationally as well and know quite a few women who have international careers.
It is hard on relationships and even harder when you have kids. It requires compromise on both parts. What most of my friends have done is curtail their travel to the essentials while the husband agrees to be primary caregiver to the kids when she's away.
Based on what you've posted, this man doesn't sound like the compromising type so if you marry him expect his complaints to get worse. I've also had friends who gave up their international careers for love and their relationships seem to have improved. But I don't think they were as passionate about their careers as you seem.
It is hard on relationships and even harder when you have kids. It requires compromise on both parts. What most of my friends have done is curtail their travel to the essentials while the husband agrees to be primary caregiver to the kids when she's away.
Based on what you've posted, this man doesn't sound like the compromising type so if you marry him expect his complaints to get worse. I've also had friends who gave up their international careers for love and their relationships seem to have improved. But I don't think they were as passionate about their careers as you seem.
FlowerHair
Reclaiming my time
It seems that at this point in time, you are probably not a good match.
This is an important issue that you need to solve before the wedding...
May I ask how old you and your fiancée are?
This is an important issue that you need to solve before the wedding...
May I ask how old you and your fiancée are?
Guitarhero
New Member
Not only does mothering mean being there, it means being there in a capacity that is best for the child, i.e. quality and quantity of time. Same for being a good spouse. Are you sure getting married is for you? Do you understand his traditional values being that he is from Qatar? Until you can resolve those issues about what it means to be married with children, I would not get married. It would be the worst selfish act in this case.
It's simply not for you at this point.
Etherealsmile
Well-Known Member
I smell an ultimatum lurking, he doesn't sound like the type of guy that will compromise on his stance regarding you being grounded and raising your children. It might come to the point where he asks you to choose either him or your career.
From the sound of things, you're not ready to give up your career but are you ready to give him up?
From the sound of things, you're not ready to give up your career but are you ready to give him up?
I'm not ready to give up either.
hopeful
Well-Known Member
No need to make him out to be the bad guy. He wants a traditional wife. You want to travel the world non-stop even if it's dangerous, have a huge career. Nothing wrong with either of you. You just have somehow fallen in love despite your incompatibility. You sound like you are afraid that you will end up alone because of who you are and because of your ambitions. Honestly, that is a risk you will probably have to take. You have to embrace who you are, be who you are, and hope for the best regarding marriage.
Reading your story reminds me of Condoleeza Rice. I could almost see you older and alone but wildly successful and accomplished. Would being alone be that bad? Would never marrying be that bad if you could achieve all of your academic, career, and humanitarian goals? I am a stay at home mom who never had the desire to do the things you speak of. Being home and letting my husband's career take center stage was not a sacrifice. It was easy for me. I wanted a quiet life. My point is I wouldn't force myself to live the type of life you want. Why should you force yourself to be someone you aren't? Maybe you'll get
married. Maybe you won't. Who knows? But to me you have to be you and
go for your dreams. Have a little faith that things will fall in place. Honestly
right now it sounds like marriage is secondary to you and that's okay.
Reading your story reminds me of Condoleeza Rice. I could almost see you older and alone but wildly successful and accomplished. Would being alone be that bad? Would never marrying be that bad if you could achieve all of your academic, career, and humanitarian goals? I am a stay at home mom who never had the desire to do the things you speak of. Being home and letting my husband's career take center stage was not a sacrifice. It was easy for me. I wanted a quiet life. My point is I wouldn't force myself to live the type of life you want. Why should you force yourself to be someone you aren't? Maybe you'll get
married. Maybe you won't. Who knows? But to me you have to be you and
go for your dreams. Have a little faith that things will fall in place. Honestly
right now it sounds like marriage is secondary to you and that's okay.
Funny thing. . . Professor Rice was my thesis advisor. Let's just say things aren't always as they seem. . .
And, while I do admire her, especially as a Black woman who has achieved so much, I would never want that for myself-- to achieve everything and have no one to share it with. I guess the problem is not just our differences... the problem also lies in this duality i'm juggling you know? As someone who is career driven, but some one who is also a woman and wants a family :/
I would love to follow more along the lines of someone like Susan Rice. She's got an amazing career & a beautiful family. I love looking to her because she makes me feel like it is possible to have it all.
Naveah2050
Well-Known Member
Sorry OP, I havent read this thread properly as am at browsing at work - but I like you travel a lot for work, luckily my SO also travels alot and we share this passion. (My SO and I are currently both living in diff countries for work and we are both not from the city that we met in and lived in prior to this.)
Initially I agreed with your FH because l see myself scaling back my travel when we get married and have kids (at least until my kids are old enough to come with) BUT as you elaborated more I started to get a bad feeling about all of this. I have been with guys like this before and am sorry to say it but it seems to me he is resentful of your passion and is almost acting jealous. A job at the UN is not a job it is a passion I certainly would not give it up for anyone like this - he is trying to control you and will never be happy until he consumes your every moment. You need to talk to him about the practicalities of married life and see if you can really see a future with him. Love shouldnt be based on sacrifices, and chances are if it is not travelling it will be something else with him.
Goodluck OP - PS did you say how old you are? I mean if you dont have kids why not just enjoy and do it now? I have given myself another 2-3 years to get the travel out of my system....after a while to be honest its exhausting and you will probably want to settle down.
Initially I agreed with your FH because l see myself scaling back my travel when we get married and have kids (at least until my kids are old enough to come with) BUT as you elaborated more I started to get a bad feeling about all of this. I have been with guys like this before and am sorry to say it but it seems to me he is resentful of your passion and is almost acting jealous. A job at the UN is not a job it is a passion I certainly would not give it up for anyone like this - he is trying to control you and will never be happy until he consumes your every moment. You need to talk to him about the practicalities of married life and see if you can really see a future with him. Love shouldnt be based on sacrifices, and chances are if it is not travelling it will be something else with him.
Goodluck OP - PS did you say how old you are? I mean if you dont have kids why not just enjoy and do it now? I have given myself another 2-3 years to get the travel out of my system....after a while to be honest its exhausting and you will probably want to settle down.
hopeful
Well-Known Member
Okay, just googled Susan Rice. She sounds amazing and like an excellent role model for you. She would not marry the type of man you are considering marrying . I believe she would choose being single over giving up who she was. But she was blessed and managed to have her career, her husband, and her children. You must be brave like her and have more faith. Do not deny who you are at your core. There is nothing wrong with your aspirations. The right guy will love who you are, all of you, and not try to change you. You both must allow each other to be themselves. Nothing wrong with you or him. You simply aren't compatible.
. I believe she would choose being single over giving up who she was. But she was blessed and managed to have her career, her husband, and her children. You must be brave like her and have more faith. Do not deny who you are at your core. There is nothing wrong with your aspirations. The right guy will love who you are, all of you, and not try to change you. You both must allow each other to be themselves. Nothing wrong with you or him. You simply aren't compatible.
UmSumayyah
Well-Known Member
Hopeful gave you alot of good advice.
Take what I'm about to say and weigh it with whatever you know about him, after all we only have your description.
But ALOT of muslim men who date/marry non-muslim women act like this. (even the ones who claim to be secular/non-religious, esp. if they grew up in a muslim majority country) I'm not going to say "all" or "most", but what you have posted so far sounds like the beginnings of a familiar tale.
Who you are is all cool in the beginning, but once things get serious he puts demands/restrictions on you. Once you get married it gets exponentially worse. "Do this, do that, don't go here, don't go there, wear this, don't wear that, why are you talking to so and so"... and on and on.
It doesn't end well.
Take what I'm about to say and weigh it with whatever you know about him, after all we only have your description.
But ALOT of muslim men who date/marry non-muslim women act like this. (even the ones who claim to be secular/non-religious, esp. if they grew up in a muslim majority country) I'm not going to say "all" or "most", but what you have posted so far sounds like the beginnings of a familiar tale.
Who you are is all cool in the beginning, but once things get serious he puts demands/restrictions on you. Once you get married it gets exponentially worse. "Do this, do that, don't go here, don't go there, wear this, don't wear that, why are you talking to so and so"... and on and on.
It doesn't end well.
Country gal
Well-Known Member
I wished I had more opportunity to travel before having my kids. Now my trips consist of family vacations with an occasional business Trip to some US City. I would not stop traveling until after you have kids if you can't take them with you.
LiftedUp
Well-Known Member
This is what I thought when I first read your situation but didn't reply. I think that the underlying issue is a clash of cultures. It's not necessarily being secure but it is what he expects and wants out of a relationship. What is expected of a wife in his family and culture. He wants to mould you into that ideal. It's up to you to decide whether you are willing to give up what you have to have something else (a marriage with him and children).
I don't think he's wrong (or nec. jealous) nor do I think that you are wrong I think that the communication is blurred because of the cultural differences. At the end of the day, one party will have to seriously compromise.
TrueToHair
Well-Known Member
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Kalia1
Well-Known Member
Please OP know that there are many successful marriages of American women who married Muslim men.
As you cannot put everyman into a box neither can you a Muslim man. I know several close friends who are American married to Muslim men in wonderful relationships. No and all of the women didn't convert to Islam. Some practice Christianity and some nothing. They live in various countries around the world and are happy with their choice.
There are also many successful Muslim women in business. Some who have families and work. Doing both and still accepted and appreciated by their Muslim husbands.
My point is see sincerely how he views things based on faith and not culture.
If culture takes precedence then you must guard yourself. Unfortunately some men mix Islam with culture and this isn't right.
As you cannot put everyman into a box neither can you a Muslim man. I know several close friends who are American married to Muslim men in wonderful relationships. No and all of the women didn't convert to Islam. Some practice Christianity and some nothing. They live in various countries around the world and are happy with their choice.
There are also many successful Muslim women in business. Some who have families and work. Doing both and still accepted and appreciated by their Muslim husbands.
My point is see sincerely how he views things based on faith and not culture.
If culture takes precedence then you must guard yourself. Unfortunately some men mix Islam with culture and this isn't right.
NaijaTroll
New Member
agreed. I dont take supposed non-practising Muslms seriously at all, after all s done, things start to change, that';s when they remember they wanna leave by traditon, of course mine s going based o n Nigerian Muslims but from many know ts really not that different.
I know of one who recently got a diivorce, talking about he hated seeng her fav cross necklace on her chest..t's like wtf why did you chase this woman in the first place.. just dont get it
OP, I'll be frank. I find it very ODD that you didnt know of these things, you're planning to marry a Muslim and it never occured to you to fnd out the rules/customs esp of his land? That's just weird.
You have alot of thinking to do, by yourself without him jeering at you. m sure he's a sweet person BUT your life and from what I see his upbringing arent gonna mesh and I have a feeeling you are gonna be miserable. Please think this over.
ambergirl
Well-Known Member
I think when you peel back the layers most woman, particularly those who are succeeding at the level of a Susan Rice have made their compromises as well. That's life. Bottom line is that you need to be with someone with whom you can reach a compromise that works for both of you.
On another note, one woman I know spent several years working for a huge NGO in Geneva which required a lot of travel - hundred's of thousands of miles a year. Her husband and nannies did a fair amount raising her kids. After her daughter graduated from college she told her mom that she wanted a different life for her kids so she had a baby shortly after grad. school and eventually got married. She was shocked at how critical her daughter was about her upbringing.
I'm not saying she shouldn't have done that job or had kids. I'm saying pulling off the high flying, wildly successful international career and being married and raising kids is a very difficult life to craft and usually does not come for free.
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