He Asks Me Out Then Bamboozles Me Into Paying: Updated

[ArrrBeee]

Not to poo poo on your comment, but the bold may not be a good thing. What's in italics is key though

There are some things I should have known, but when you have zero models of good relationships, you do what you know. When you know better, you do better and I'm doing much, much better. It feels good to set an expectation of being treated well and see someone either rise or fall to the occasion.

I'm wise enough to filter out the ridiculousness.

 

[SurferBabe]

There are some things I should have known, but when you have zero models of good relationships, you do what you know. When you know better, you do better and I'm doing much, much better. It feels good to set an expectation of being treated well and see someone either rise or fall to the occasion.

I'm wise enough to filter out the ridiculousness.

I agree with this.

I believe that most women desire to be treated well, but many don't grow up seeing real life examples of men going out of the way to treat a woman like a queen during the courtship stage.

I don't even think this is strictly about upbringing and self-esteem as many suggest. I've observed a major learning curve for women who didn't grow up seeing courtship take place after a certain age. For example, I grew up in a community where people partnered up and married pretty young. They married their middle school and high school sweethearts. Courtship was casual. I had no idea what to expect as a woman trying to navigate the dating world well after college. I didn't see grown women flirt or date. Anyone caught single after college graduation caved in and married their childhood neighbor. The dating pool is now full of men who are nothing like the shy, easily-manipulated guys whose phone calls I ignored back in the day-- and it took me a while to realize that. There are many women who really don't know what adult dating should look like because they weren't exposed to it-- they are still mentally stuck in their college sweetheart pizza and movie date days.

 

[Bunnyhaslonghair]

I do not have good relationship examples in my every day life. Pretty much everything I learned came from LHCF. Slowly but surely I have learned to value myself and be more expectant of good things.

Ladies who are in the know, please continue to share your knowledge.

I've also learned everything about quality dating from here and my paternal grandmother. LHCF isn't perfect but I'm glad I've been around to learn some valuable lessons. My mom has never had a good picker. I wish she would have had someone to teach her too.

 

[BEAUTYU2U]

I agree with this.

I believe that most women desire to be treated well, but many don't grow up seeing real life examples of men going out of the way to treat a woman like a queen during the courtship stage.

I don't even think this is strictly about upbringing and self-esteem as many suggest. I've observed a major learning curve for women who didn't grow up seeing courtship take place after a certain age. For example, I grew up in a community where people partnered up and married pretty young. They married their middle school and high school sweethearts. Courtship was casual. I had no idea what to expect as a woman trying to navigate the dating world well after college. I didn't see grown women flirt or date. Anyone caught single after college graduation caved in and married their childhood neighbor. The dating pool is now full of men who are nothing like the shy, easily-manipulated guys whose phone calls I ignored back in the day-- and it took me a while to realize that. There are many women who really don't know what adult dating should look like because they weren't exposed to it-- they are still mentally stuck in their college sweetheart pizza and movie date days.

ITA. Especially in a sea of millenial "situationships." My dating ideals learned from my childhood look nothing like my adulthood reality.

 

[FelaShrine]

Oh hell no! $100 Uber ride and dude said he was worth it nope nope nope. First off boro dating is real. I live in BK. I'm not dating anyone in the Bx for ex. Why? While there are perfectly nice people who live there I'm not trooping to the Bx, that is a long distance relationship (note I did not visit my own brother who lived there for a year unless I had a car rental). And didn't want to order food. Money and cheap is not dateable.

And jumping into his car before making sure I got into mine NOPE NOPE NOPE. Ubers/Gett/Lyft all wait

And you need some new friends or different ones to get feedback on

You know that aint the only reason not to.

 

[biznesswmn]

@strenght81
Has dude tried to holler again since u canceled?
Just curious

 

[C@ssandr@]

Not to poo poo on your comment, but the bold may not be a good thing. What's in italics is key though

Ahhh. Allow me to backtrack a bit. I'd like to add that the dating advice on here has plenty of value. While I don't always petition for advice, I do very much value different pov's.

 

[Honey Bee]

I agree with this.

I believe that most women desire to be treated well, but many don't grow up seeing real life examples of men going out of the way to treat a woman like a queen during the courtship stage.

I don't even think this is strictly about upbringing and self-esteem as many suggest. I've observed a major learning curve for women who didn't grow up seeing courtship take place after a certain age. For example, I grew up in a community where people partnered up and married pretty young. They married their middle school and high school sweethearts. Courtship was casual. I had no idea what to expect as a woman trying to navigate the dating world well after college. I didn't see grown women flirt or date. Anyone caught single after college graduation caved in and married their childhood neighbor. The dating pool is now full of men who are nothing like the shy, easily-manipulated guys whose phone calls I ignored back in the day-- and it took me a while to realize that. There are many women who really don't know what adult dating should look like because they weren't exposed to it-- they are still mentally stuck in their college sweetheart pizza and movie date days.

But you don't want that hs sweet heart type of man. You want a man that's fine, making six figures, and got a life planned for greatness. That requires work, i.e. 'sorting', 'positioning', etc. They don't just fall in your lap.

 

[mstar]

I don't work either. And I really don't add much of concrete value to the household...I'm not raising kids, cleaning, paying bills, etc. All of my value is wrapped up in being awesome. I add a lot of value in small ways simply by being myself.

That's why I don't like to see women feeling that they have to DO anything to get/keep a man. Especially not in the early stages. A man either loves you or he doesn't, period. But we can increase the chances of him loving us...by falling all the way back and doing NOTHING except living our own lives. Just like in your Starbucks example, let HIM figure things out. That is the most attractive thing a woman can do.

I always tell my single friends to do only 3 things on a date: show up, look pretty, and be yourself. That's it! Do not do a single other thing; you are enough. Stay connected to your feelings and be your authentic self, and that's it. My entire marriage is literally built around that principle.

It took me a long time to figure that out, and to then refine my methods to suit my personality and play to my strengths. But it was worth it.

 

[Honey Bee]

I don't work either. And I really don't add much of concrete value to the household...I'm not raising kids, cleaning, paying bills, etc. All of my value is wrapped up in being awesome. I add a lot of value in small ways simply by being myself.

That's why I don't like to see women feeling that they have to DO anything to get/keep a man. Especially not in the early stages. A man either loves you or he doesn't, period. But we can increase the chances of him loving us...by falling all the way back and doing NOTHING except living our own lives. Just like in your Starbucks example, let HIM figure things out. That is the most attractive thing a woman can do.

I always tell my single friends to do only 3 things on a date: show up, look pretty, and be yourself. That's it! Do not do a single other thing; you are enough. Stay connected to your feelings and be your authentic self, and that's it. My entire marriage is literally built around that principle.

It took me a long time to figure that out, and to then refine my methods to suit my personality and play to my strengths. But it was worth it.

1000% agreed. 1st para = my whole life. But I'm working on the cleaning part cuz I find I kinda enjoy it.

A man that expects you to do too much will always expect you to be doing too much. No thanks.

 

[Daernyris]

A man that expects you to do too much will always expect you to be doing too much. No thanks.

 

[boudoir]

applause
ditto
very well said.
I often try to articulate this mindset to other sistah friend's but it just never translates well.
I chill. DH since day one has always said IM such a lucky man to have you etc etc and he is!
I chill and just enjoy being me and that brings a world of joy to him and is enough.
yes ma'm

I don't work either. And I really don't add much of concrete value to the household...I'm not raising kids, cleaning, paying bills, etc. All of my value is wrapped up in being awesome. I add a lot of value in small ways simply by being myself.

That's why I don't like to see women feeling that they have to DO anything to get/keep a man. Especially not in the early stages. A man either loves you or he doesn't, period. But we can increase the chances of him loving us...by falling all the way back and doing NOTHING except living our own lives. Just like in your Starbucks example, let HIM figure things out. That is the most attractive thing a woman can do.

I always tell my single friends to do only 3 things on a date: show up, look pretty, and be yourself. That's it! Do not do a single other thing; you are enough. Stay connected to your feelings and be your authentic self, and that's it. My entire marriage is literally built around that principle.

It took me a long time to figure that out, and to then refine my methods to suit my personality and play to my strengths. But it was worth it.

 

[SurferBabe]

But you don't want that hs sweet heart type of man. You want a man that's fine, making six figures, and got a life planned for greatness. That requires work, i.e. 'sorting', 'positioning', etc. They don't just fall in your lap.

You're absolutely right. That is where the learning curve comes in for some women. How do you go from casual, easy courtship to grown up dating when you've never observed it? I just hate the idea that every adult woman who stumbles a little in modern-day dating does so because she has low self-esteem and wasn't taught about values growing up. Maybe she was taught about values, but none of that translated into anything useful for her as a single woman over 30 on a whole new playing field. When your mother met your shy, likely still a virgin father at 15, and courtship consisted of hitting up the burger and milkshake spot after the football game, what can she really tell you about how to navigate this new dating world? Pops was already in love after some heavy petting at Makeout Point.

And let's be real, many coupled people in our lives who give advice on dating have never been single for longer than a few months. They couldn't possibly know how hard it is to keep firm on standards when it has been years and you're craving companionship and some vitamin D .

I don't think any woman should feel guilty or beat themselves up about slipping. It happens to the best of us. We all need a little help figuring this mess out. That's why I'm glad there are women on this board who get it because they have lived it.

 

[mstar]

And let's be real, many coupled people in our lives who give advice on dating have never been single for longer than a few months. They couldn't possibly know how hard it is to keep firm on standards when it has been years and you're craving companionship and some vitamin D .

But there's a reason for that. Kinda like the old commercial,

"You use Head & Shoulders? But you don't have dandruff!"
"Exactly."

I will never be single for long, never crave for companionship or D-flavored nutrients...for the exact reasons I've outlined. Men are drawn to women like this, partially because our confidence in this area means we don't have to pay them too much attention.

I want you to do Rori Raye, @SurferBabe . She really, really explains everything beautifully. She breaks down why certain things work, and why others don't, and does so in such a loving way...I'm just a huge fan of hers.

 

[rafikichick92]

@mstar Which Rori Raye courses do you recommend?

 

[shortycocoa]

Omg, that cracked me up. Exactly! If you can't 'write your name on the test', you don't deserve to pass. You took yourself out the running. 'Treat him to dinner'?! Please stop, I have a cramp in my side from the ensuing laughter.

Word...this reminds me of an incident that happened years ago. One of my male friends had introduced me to a friend and we went out. I didn't hear from him on a regular basis, despite him claiming to 'really like me.' And I was NOT going to call him. Plus, I was playing the field at that time anyway and kept a few in rotation. He was at the back of the line.

Anyway...my friend called me one day and asked if I had heard from the guy. I said no...then he went and said, "Oh, he (the guy) said you kicked him to the curb." I promptly responded and said "No, he kicked HIMSELF to the curb."

These dudes can be lazy af, man! SMH...

 

[Honey Bee]

But there's a reason for that. Kinda like the old commercial,

"You use Head & Shoulders? But you don't have dandruff!"
"Exactly."

I will never be single for long, never crave for companionship or D-flavored nutrients...for the exact reasons I've outlined. Men are drawn to women like this, partially because our confidence in this area means we don't have to pay them too much attention.

.

@ this whole post.

But who is Rory Raye?

 

[movingforward13]

@ this whole post.

But who is Rory Raye?

She is a guru only femininity and getting women married.
If you are an independent woman, alpha type- you may not mesh with her.
She preaches that women should be taken care of, dainty, not work real jobs (only passive income), always have a feminine voice and demeanor, etc., avoid men who don't have both parents or was raised primarily by their (single) moms, etc.

I think she has a lot of gold nuggets. I haven't seen her program work for single mothers (although she mentions there are men out here willing to take on that responsibility if I correctly recall - could be wrong).

I think the best candidates for her programs are women who aren't alpha, can relinquish control, and can be coached.


Edited-sorry I was thinking about
Ro Élori Cutno-

Not sure who Rory Raye is.

 

[mstar]

@ this whole post.

But who is Rory Raye?

A relationship guru I found a few years ago whose work was life changing for me in refining my methods. I already had the right ideas, but she brought it all together in a 360 way that expanded the possibilities of my entire life. @SurferBabe and I were talking about her in the other thread.

@mstar Which Rori Raye courses do you recommend?

All of them. I bought the complete collection as it's the most cost effective. I have not gone through all of the material, though. Commitment Blueprint and Lovescripts were the most helpful for me, but I do intend to go through all of it at some point, because each program offered many surprises that far exceeded what I expected from the description.

 

[mstar]

She is a guru only femininity and getting women married.
If you are an independent woman, alpha type- you may not mesh with her.
She preaches that women should be taken care of, dainty, not work real jobs (only passive income), always have a feminine voice and demeanor, etc., avoid men who don't have both parents or was raised primarily by their (single) moms, etc.

I think she has a lot of gold nuggets. I haven't seen her program work for single mothers (although she mentions there are men out here willing to take on that responsibility if I correctly recall - could be wrong).

I think the best candidates for her programs are women who aren't alpha, can relinquish control, and can be coached.


Edited-sorry I was thinking about
Ro Élori Cutno-

Not sure who Rory Raye is.

Just re-emphasizing that this is NOT Rori Raye. I don't know who this person is you're describing.

 

[Theresamonet]

Just re-emphasizing that this is NOT Rori Raye. I don't know who this person is you're describing.

Lol. She's describing that crazy "wife school" lady.

@mstar What did you learn from Rodri Raye, since you were already married and doing well in that area? How did you implement her teachings, and what were your results?

 

[Brwnbeauti]

She is a guru only femininity and getting women married.
If you are an independent woman, alpha type- you may not mesh with her.
She preaches that women should be taken care of, dainty, not work real jobs (only passive income), always have a feminine voice and demeanor, etc., avoid men who don't have both parents or was raised primarily by their (single) moms, etc.

I think she has a lot of gold nuggets. I haven't seen her program work for single mothers (although she mentions there are men out here willing to take on that responsibility if I correctly recall - could be wrong).

I think the best candidates for her programs are women who aren't alpha, can relinquish control, and can be coached.


Edited-sorry I was thinking about
Ro Élori Cutno-

Not sure who Rory Raye is.

She's quite the opposite. She can teach you how to stop being a try hard, how to not be codependent, and to embrace your femininity and just be and allow men to lead. Not just in romantic relationships.
She has a free newsletter that readers can start off with.

 

[God_Favor]

I can't find the update. Did he call or something?

 

[shortycocoa]

I can't find the update. Did he call or something?

The OP mentioned that she canceled the 2nd date and he just said "ok."

 

[movingforward13]

Just re-emphasizing that this is NOT Rori Raye. I don't know who this person is you're describing.

This was who I was thinking -
http://www.rootsofroyals.com/blog/

She does wife schools

 

[movingforward13]

She's quite the opposite. She can teach you how to stop being a try hard, how to not be codependent, and to embrace your femininity and just be and allow men to lead. Not just in romantic relationships.
She has a free newsletter that readers can start off with.

Ro does the same thing. Her main deal with embrace feminity and having the man lead in ALL areas of life- but she focuses on marriage and family. But she is more forceful with it (IMO). Ro has a school for women to learn how to be wives.

Yeah they are not the same people but very similar ideas.

 

[ilong]

Oh no, I didn't mean any disrespect! I'm sorry. I don't know you so I can't possibly know personally what vibe you give off. But I do want you to win, so I gave you the advice I'd give a friend. I based my comment on the fact that you said he expected you to take the train, or was otherwise unconcerned with your transportation. You obviously did not raise the issue, probably because, although you realized the distance, you thought, 'I got this, I'm grown.' And that was the mistake.

If you want a man, one actually worth having , you have to sort for one. We have many tests to do so. One of the more commonly known is the 'can you feed me' test. Women used to accept cows, now we want dinner. Another is the 'can you protect me' test. In modern times, that includes transport to and from the date. He's supposed to be concerned about how you get there, whether it's physically taxing or unsafe. If he's not, he failed already. Before you left the house. A week prior. Plenty of time to plan another amusing activity. Oh well @ him.

*I* recognized your 'value' (having your stuff all the way together). He did not. (Btw, I hope you got him all the way told like you did me. ) That's why he tried to play you like that. With all you have going on, a negro should be able to tell from across the street that you not here for no b.s. What I'm saying is, the manner in which you are conveying your value has proven ineffective in this instance and might merit review. As an analogy, if I was looking for a new position and my first offer was unreasonably low, I'd of course look to exogenous factors (racism, the market, etc), but I'd also do a quick review of my LinkedIn to make sure it was all the way on point. (And this analogy goes both ways. He too was interviewing for a position. Imo, he shouldn't have even received a call back, but that's just me.)

Don't be mad at me! I'm very strategic/ bloodless in relationship matters and don't always express the right degree of emotion- I see them like a military campaign - but I mean well. We good?

Fabulous post !!!

 

[BEAUTYU2U]

@Honey Bee - I tried that "how far is that from your starting point" thing on a guy from POF. It worked or didn't work depending on your perspective cause his answer was "I have no idea."

-____-

Needless to say, I read it and never responded back to him. He filtered himself out so quickly.

 

[JerriBlank]

A relationship guru I found a few years ago whose work was life changing for me in refining my methods. I already had the right ideas, but she brought it all together in a 360 way that expanded the possibilities of my entire life. @SurferBabe and I were talking about her in the other thread.


All of them. I bought the complete collection as it's the most cost effective. I have not gone through all of the material, though. Commitment Blueprint and Lovescripts were the most helpful for me, but I do intend to go through all of it at some point, because each program offered many surprises that far exceeded what I expected from the description.

Link, please? I need refinement. I have tons of correct instincts and basic knowledge, but it can only take you so far without education and an experienced teacher.

 

[mstar]

Lol. She's describing that crazy "wife school" lady.

@mstar What did you learn from Rodri Raye, since you were already married and doing well in that area? How did you implement her teachings, and what were your results?

Great question. I'll answer this in the new Rori Raye thread that was just started.

She's quite the opposite. She can teach you how to stop being a try hard, how to not be codependent, and to embrace your femininity and just be and allow men to lead. Not just in romantic relationships.
She has a free newsletter that readers can start off with.

Great summation.

Ro does the same thing. Her main deal with embrace feminity and having the man lead in ALL areas of life- but she focuses on marriage and family. But she is more forceful with it (IMO). Ro has a school for women to learn how to be wives.

Yeah they are not the same people but very similar ideas.

I see where you're coming from, but I disagree...the differences are immense. I think the key difference is in underlying intent and attitude...there is not anything in Rori's material that would make a woman feel uncomfortable, as it's all presented in a loving way. Whereas most people's reaction to that other lady is "she's crazy."

I don't think we should kid ourselves that they're 'both saying the same thing,' since they aren't. We as black women deserve to be treated with love, tenderness, respect, and care, even by our relationship teachers, and Rori does that. I don't want BW to feel that it's ok to be talked down to like the crazy wife school lady does. I think we as a community of women really need to move away from all the drama.