Women, Do we unwittingly emasculate our men?

[Lady Esquire]

On Sunday, my kids, DH and I drove up to the Dunkin Donuts window. DH ordered half dozen glaze donuts into the microphone. Then when he drove up to the window to pay, DH wanted to change two of them into jelly donuts. Since we had somewhere to go afterwards, I put my hand on his lap, and reminded him that almost everytime he orders jelly donuts, he gets his shirt dirty. Not thinking twice about it, he turns over to the guy at the window and smiles and says, “The wife makes a good point, keep 'em all glazed.”


The man who is in the store shoots me daggers with his eyes. When he hands DH the box, the man says, “I am not American; I am Pakastani and where I am from, women stay down. Men get what they want in my culture. There are 2 jelly donuts in the box!” Me and DH died laughing and drove off!


DH said I do not have to be an A-hole to prove I am a man, and shrugged it off. Later on, it bothered me. I know that I was NOT trying to force my opinion on DH. But are there subtle ways of emasculating a man...or on the flip side...dominating a woman's opinion?

 

[Lucie]

Yes, I think there are subtle and not-so-subtle ways to emasculate a man. I think it stems from needing to always be in control (in my case at least) and treating him like my son, instead of like a husband. I have a way of pointing out my husband's flaws in front of others He brought that up to me and I was so But I learned from it. I cannot say the same for my husband because he is very easy going and does not try to force anything on me. I am getting better though

 

[winterinatl]

Yes, and what you did was one of them, even though you meant well. I read somewhere that men really don't like for us to come off as mothering (even though they seek out women LIKE their mother ). There are little things we do every day to emasculate them.

But honestly, in some situations, what else can you do? I'm sure my ex felt emasculated by me - he was a scrub. I could blink and he'd feel less than a man. That's not my fault and I'm not going to alter myself to primp his little ego which doesn't deserve to be primped.

I think there is a continuum of emasculation for a man, and if you are doing "big" things to emasculate him often, he won't stick around, even if it's not your fault as the woman (meaning, you aren't just being insensitive).

 

[PaperClip]

Nine times out of 10, it's not WHAT we say, but HOW we say it.... A woman can win a man over by her conversation, her lifestyle, the way she conducts herself.... and say and do things in such a way that gets the job done and makes her man looks like he did it all.... for the woman, that's humility, power under control, quiet strength... and most importantly, SECURITY in oneself....

The Dunkin Donuts incident does not look like emasculation to me. In fact, it is an example of HELP...making your man look good and stay well, esp. as you all were on your way somewhere. How would that look if your man showed up somewhere and he wasn't together and you could have helped him out with that? Not cool....

There's a fine line between helping and manipulation, though....

 

[Mortons]

In that instance I dont think you did anything wrong, you were trying to help him out

I personally don't think that you can emasculate a real man but then again thats just me

 

[sunnydaze]

Yes, and what you did was one of them, even though you meant well. I read somewhere that men really don't like for us to come off as mothering (even though they seek out women LIKE their mother ). There are little things we do every day to emasculate them.

But honestly, in some situations, what else can you do? I'm sure my ex felt emasculated by me - he was a scrub. I could blink and he'd feel less than a man. That's not my fault and I'm not going to alter myself to primp his little ego which doesn't deserve to be primped.

I think there is a continuum of emasculation for a man, and if you are doing "big" things to emasculate him often, he won't stick around, even if it's not your fault as the woman (meaning, you aren't just being insensitive).

Girl.....

Mine did and I did everything in my power to not be that way. I use to talk to some of my married folks and shudder at some of the things they would say to their husband. I believe my ability to handle things was what was emasculating as opposed to any words coming out of my mouth.

 

[PaperClip]

I personally don't think that you can emasculate a real man but then again thats just me

I didn't want to get too lengthy in my post but that's where I was going as well.... I mean, one incident alone isn't enough to emasculate a secure man....

 

[Mortons]

Yes, and what you did was one of them, even though you meant well. I read somewhere that men really don't like for us to come off as mothering (even though they seek out women LIKE their mother ). There are little things we do every day to emasculate them.

But honestly, in some situations, what else can you do? I'm sure my ex felt emasculated by me - he was a scrub. I could blink and he'd feel less than a man. That's not my fault and I'm not going to alter myself to primp his little ego which doesn't deserve to be primped.

I think there is a continuum of emasculation for a man, and if you are doing "big" things to emasculate him often, he won't stick around, even if it's not your fault as the woman (meaning, you aren't just being insensitive).

 

[Bunny77]

In that instance I dont think you did anything wrong, you were trying to help him out

I personally don't think that you can emasculate a real man but then again thats just me

You know, I agree. I'm just thinking... the men who had it going on and KNEW it never ever ever used the word "emasculate." They never accused a woman of trying to do that to them...

I will say that in general, we as women can be a little more careful with some of our tendencies to be "mothering," but as long as we're not yelling/hollering/screaming/saying 'you ain't no man' then it's hardly emasculation.

 

[Deluxe]

In that instance I dont think you did anything wrong, you were trying to help him out

I personally don't think that you can emasculate a real man but then again thats just me

Exactly!!!

You're his wife, your supposed to help him, geez.

In that man's country women are not viewed as people but objects to be controlled.

 

[Bunny77]

Exactly!!!

You're his wife, your supposed to help him, geez.

What I hate is this... folks say, "let the man be the man."

Okay fine.

Well, why is it that when a woman tries to "be a woman," (like what the OP did in noticing that jelly causes stains), then she's criticized or accused of "emasculating" a man.

A good partnership requires compromises on both sides. Women sometimes need to fall back and not stifle the man's decision-making (not in the OP's case, but in general), but men sometimes need to drop the macho thing and let a woman nurture.

 

[Lady Esquire]

I think there is a continuum of emasculation for a man, and if you are doing "big" things to emasculate him often, he won't stick around, even if it's not your fault as the woman (meaning, you aren't just being insensitive).

That is what I learned from the incident. I definitely do not do any of the more obvious and major things that question his manhood. But I do not want to morph into THAT kinda wife either who babies him without even noticing it.

Although, DH did not seem bothered by the situation. He said he is secure in his manhood.

 

[Deluxe]

What I hate is this... folks say, "let the man be the man."

Okay fine.

Well, why is it that when a woman tries to "be a woman," (like what the OP did in noticing that jelly causes stains), then she's criticized or accused of "emasculating" a man.

A good partnership requires compromises on both sides. Women sometimes need to fall back and not stifle the man's decision-making (not in the OP's case, but in general), but men sometimes need to drop the macho thing and let a woman nurture.[/QUOTE]

That's it right there.

 

[chellero]

On Sunday, my kids, DH and I drove up to the Dunkin Donuts window. DH ordered half dozen glaze donuts into the microphone. Then when he drove up to the window to pay, DH wanted to change two of them into jelly donuts. Since we had somewhere to go afterwards, I put my hand on his lap, and reminded him that almost everytime he orders jelly donuts, he gets his shirt dirty. Not thinking twice about it, he turns over to the guy at the window and smiles and says, “The wife makes a good point, keep 'em all glazed.”


The man who is in the store shoots me daggers with his eyes. When he hands DH the box, the man says, “I am not American; I am Pakastani and where I am from, women stay down. Men get what they want in my culture. There are 2 jelly donuts in the box!” Me and DH died laughing and drove off!


DH said I do not have to be an A-hole to prove I am a man, and shrugged it off. Later on, it bothered me. I know that I was NOT trying to force my opinion on DH. But are there subtle ways of emasculating a man...or on the flip side...dominating a woman's opinion?

OMG Let me think about this and come back.

 

[Lady Esquire]

Nine times out of 10, it's not WHAT we say, but HOW we say it.... A woman can win a man over by her conversation, her lifestyle, the way she conducts herself.... and say and do things in such a way that gets the job done and makes her man looks like he did it all.... for the woman, that's humility, power under control, quiet strength... and most importantly, SECURITY in oneself....


There's a fine line between helping and manipulation, though....

Over the years, I have definitely learned how to approach him. And he knows how to approach me. He is extremely easy-going, but I also know what tones to take, etc. I watched my mother emasculate my biological father, stepdad, and even her current husband, so I am highly vigilant not to fall into that pattern.

 

[Lady Esquire]

I personally don't think that you can emasculate a real man but then again thats just me

So so true!!!!!!!!!

 

[Everything Zen]

On Sunday, my kids, DH and I drove up to the Dunkin Donuts window. DH ordered half dozen glaze donuts into the microphone. Then when he drove up to the window to pay, DH wanted to change two of them into jelly donuts. Since we had somewhere to go afterwards, I put my hand on his lap, and reminded him that almost everytime he orders jelly donuts, he gets his shirt dirty. Not thinking twice about it, he turns over to the guy at the window and smiles and says, “The wife makes a good point, keep 'em all glazed.”


The man who is in the store shoots me daggers with his eyes. When he hands DH the box, the man says, “I am not American; I am Pakastani and where I am from, women stay down. Men get what they want in my culture. There are 2 jelly donuts in the box!” Me and DH died laughing and drove off!


DH said I do not have to be an A-hole to prove I am a man, and shrugged it off. Later on, it bothered me. I know that I was NOT trying to force my opinion on DH. But are there subtle ways of emasculating a man...or on the flip side...dominating a woman's opinion?

OH WOW...

Sounds like that guy had a lot of hatred for you. Or maybe it's because he works at Dunkin' Donuts. If I were you, I would have told him well I'm sorry for you but this is America and you need to take that mess back to Pakistan and asked to speak to the manager or thrown his little stank donuts out the window in front of him.

I don't think that was a good example of emasculating a man. Jeez- who wants to be seen at an event with a dude with jelly all over his shirt???

Who knew that manhood was sooooo fragile???

MAN UP!! - just my two cents

 

[Everything Zen]

What I hate is this... folks say, "let the man be the man."

Okay fine.

Well, why is it that when a woman tries to "be a woman," (like what the OP did in noticing that jelly causes stains), then she's criticized or accused of "emasculating" a man.

A good partnership requires compromises on both sides. Women sometimes need to fall back and not stifle the man's decision-making (not in the OP's case, but in general), but men sometimes need to drop the macho thing and let a woman nurture.

That's not even true masculinity anyway!

"You can't emasculate a real man"- Well said

 

[Lady Esquire]

What I hate is this... folks say, "let the man be the man."

Okay fine.

Well, why is it that when a woman tries to "be a woman," (like what the OP did in noticing that jelly causes stains), then she's criticized or accused of "emasculating" a man.

A good partnership requires compromises on both sides. Women sometimes need to fall back and not stifle the man's decision-making (not in the OP's case, but in general), but men sometimes need to drop the macho thing and let a woman nurture.

You hit the heart of this issue. Like everything in life, it is about balance. I said it in a pleasant tone, I gave him kind eye contact, and my intent was to keep him clean not choose his snack for him. Therefore, DH did not even flinch...in fact, we joked about it when we drove off. While this Pakastani's view was obviously swinging to the more extreme view point....its the subtleties that can confuse women.

 

[Summer_Rain]

In that instance I dont think you did anything wrong, you were trying to help him out

I personally don't think that you can emasculate a real man but then again thats just me

I agree. I feel that the personality and character traits of a "real man" (however we want to define it) commands a certain level of respect that makes "emascualting" him very hard

 

[sunnydaze]

I agree. I feel that the personality and character traits of a "real man" (however we want to define it) commands a certain level of respect that makes "emascualting" him very hard

Wow..that is on point.

He works at Dunkin Donuts, nuff said

As is that!

 

[jrae]

Yes, I think women can emasculate a man, but you didn't. I think you handled it like his partner looking out for him, not his mother nagging him.

 

[facets]

On Sunday, my kids, DH and I drove up to the Dunkin Donuts window. DH ordered half dozen glaze donuts into the microphone. Then when he drove up to the window to pay, DH wanted to change two of them into jelly donuts. Since we had somewhere to go afterwards, I put my hand on his lap, and reminded him that almost everytime he orders jelly donuts, he gets his shirt dirty. Not thinking twice about it, he turns over to the guy at the window and smiles and says, “The wife makes a good point, keep 'em all glazed.”


The man who is in the store shoots me daggers with his eyes. When he hands DH the box, the man says, “I am not American; I am Pakastani and where I am from, women stay down. Men get what they want in my culture. There are 2 jelly donuts in the box!” Me and DH died laughing and drove off!


DH said I do not have to be an A-hole to prove I am a man, and shrugged it off. Later on, it bothered me. I know that I was NOT trying to force my opinion on DH. But are there subtle ways of emasculating a man...or on the flip side...dominating a woman's opinion?

that's hilarious!
*********

I'm working on this myself. My mom was kinda domineering/mother-y often with my dad(who was a good man, i think my mom's real issues were/are with my grandfather who was 'sorry') i think.

IMO, I do feel things go more smoothly when I don't try to control my husband so much. It's easier said than done and if hormones aren't on my side, it can be shrew city.

What's crazy is that my mom will get after me for not henpecking enough. <sigh> I remember how my dad would be irritated and I'm trying not to repeat that and be more easy going. I even read _The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands_ and _Fascinating Womanhood_. If you can get past the titles, there are actually some interesting ideas in these books.

 

[MzLady78]

Okay, he really needed to just do his job and STFU!!! Didn't nobody ask him for his social commentary. How you gonna work at Dunkin Donuts and be talking that mess?

Anywho, I'll be back to answer the question after I get a little work done, LOL.

 

[MizAvalon]

Though I don't think this was the case for the OP, I do think it's very possible to emasculate men. I have seen many women do this to their husbands, boyfriends, and grown sons. Constantly harping about every little thing, pointing out his flaws/mistakes in front of a room full of people and embarrassing him, etc.

If I need to call my man on something, I'll do it privately not in front of the entire family at Thanksgiving dinner.

 

[Lady Esquire]

Okay, he really needed to just do his job and STFU!!! Didn't nobody ask him for his social commentary. How you gonna work at Dunkin Donuts and be talking that mess?

Anywho, I'll be back to answer the question after I get a little work done, LOL.

I agree with you. But his delivery was so friggin funny and it came from left field, that we did not even process the level of his ignorance until after we had a few laughs.

 

[Luvmylife]

The man who is in the store shoots me daggers with his eyes. When he hands DH the box, the man says, “I am not American; I am Pakastani and where I am from, women stay down. Men get what they want in my culture. There are 2 jelly donuts in the box!” Me and DH died laughing and drove off!

To the OP, you are a better woman than me, because homeboy would've been wearing those jelly donuts...but as I have stated before I'm an evil ***** That made me a little pissed just reading it.

Back OT, I think it is possible to unwittingly emasculate your guy...I don't think you did anything of the sort in your example though.

For me, this was something I had to learn because I have a bit of a forceful personality and I can come off as bossy. (I also think it's the nature of my career, but later on that...) When DH and I got together, I was so used to doing things for myself, by myself, running the whole show, that I didn't realize how that "bossiness" was being percieved by other people. (...and I also had to learn that men care very much how they are perceived especially by their peers...) So, I had to tone it down and let him take the reins, especially around others. I had to learn to ask him things...not tell him. Make suggestions...not demands. Compromise...not insist on my way.

Basically, I had to learn to treat him with the same respect I wanted...if I wanted him to be around. Sounds harsh, but it's real.

I know folks say, why should a woman have to bow down and cater to a man's ego, but to me it's not about that. If you want the man to be the head of your household, you gotta let him lead IMHO.

I hope I made some sense...I'm still mad about the jelly donut

 

[rabs77]

I agree. I feel that the personality and character traits of a "real man" (however we want to define it) commands a certain level of respect that makes "emascualting" him very hard

Exactly! And a man who is comfortable with his position as a man would see your donut scenario as you looking out for him, and not you trying to emasculate him. If you hadn't said anything, he would have eaten the donut, got his shirt messed up, and probably asked "Baby, why didn't you remind me when we were ordering the donuts?" Or at least that's what my man would have said. So don't doubt yourself, you did the right thing, and like the others said, he works at Dunkin Donuts
...women stay down..... Indeed!

 

[Sly]

In that instance I dont think you did anything wrong, you were trying to help him out

I personally don't think that you can emasculate a real man but then again thats just me

Exactly.

With men, it is all in your delivery. OP, I like that your husband was able to take in what you said (potential jelly filled accident) and decide for himself in fact, 'no, he would not take the jelly donuts' and move on. Now, you COULD have yelled past him from the passenger's seat "um, scratch that, no we will take glaze only" now THAT would have warranted Dunkin Dabir to add his two cents. erplexed

OP, I believe you handled it well.

 

[SleekandBouncy]

The man who is in the store shoots me daggers with his eyes. When he hands DH the box, the man says, “I am not American; I am Pakastani and where I am from, women stay down. Men get what they want in my culture. There are 2 jelly donuts in the box!” Me and DH died laughing and drove off!

I do think in subtle ways many women do emasculate their men, as well as their sons. Some mom's will treat their sons like a homegirl or unconsciously put him in the role of a surrogate husband.
I was raised that you aren't to argue, insult, take jabs at, degrade in any manner, or appear non supportive of your husband in front of others.

However, lots of men devalue their women. The rules of respect should apply equally to both parties. I don't think what you did was bad. You were being wife-ish. Your husband's response (“The wife makes a good point, keep 'em all glazed.” ) shows his decision came from his own free will after considering your reminder. You didn't override him and cancel or change the order yourself.
I also agree with RelaxerRehab. It's how you say it that makes the biggest difference.

As for the DD guy, he was was wrong. He is in a different culture and country. He is not in Pakistan and it is not his place to force or even verbalize his opinions on such matters to customers, especially when his job is to serve donuts through a small glass window. I'm usually friendly, but I gotta' agree with Luvmylife. I would have reminded Donut boy that it's his job to serve donuts, not share his opinion on anything not involving the words coffee, donut, or bagel. He needs a tall glass of STFU. He is perfectly entitled to travel back from whenst he came. When I travel, I never expect or wish to see my cultural preferences recreated elsewhere.
I probably would have had to stop my SO from leaving the donuts. If he has something to say about my behavior he says it to me, privately. Outside help need not intervene, especially not to give his girl (me) the stink eye.