Women, Do we unwittingly emasculate our men?

[lisana]

I don't think it was emasculating. I think it was being a good wife. He drops food on his shirt when he eats. You were reminding him of that so he won't wind up in public with a big red stain on his shirt. I don't understand how that is emasculating him. Marriage is about helping each other out. It's wrong to think that by giving a man help, you are emasculating him, if you think about it, that's kind of an insult to a woman, because it's like someone is saying "that a man should never be advised by a woman" So what I want to know is, why do some people feel that it is emasculating for a woman to advise a man? Do some feel that a woman should never put a man in a position where SHE is shown to be more wise, more knowledgeable, smarter, than a man? Just wondering about the deeper meanings behind all of this discussion.

 

[Serenity_Peace]

Speak that truth....THANK YOU! I grew up with a mother who has mastered the art of coddling and babying a man. So through observation, I learned what NOT to do. It has never been a concern of mine, at least HE has never brought it up in 11 going on 12 years.

The how part is crucial. I placed my hand on his lap, and said it with concern, not that babyish condescending tone. Ya'll know that tone?! Anyway, I love what you said.

LE, you sould like a good woman and an excellent, loving wife. I think your husband is honored to have you, as you are to have him. I just love black love and seeing black families together and in love. I see that you did nothing wrong. And I also think that black women need to start admitting and accepting that we are not Superwomen. We have needs, wants, vulnerabilities. We can't be strong for everyone all the time. I don't know you but it sounds like your husband appreciates you and accepts you as you are, and that's rare in this day and age. Hold on to that love, girl. You are extremely lucky!

 

[Lady Esquire]

I don't think it was emasculating. I think it was being a good wife. He drops food on his shirt when he eats. You were reminding him of that so he won't wind up in public with a big red stain on his shirt. I don't understand how that is emasculating him. Marriage is about helping each other out. It's wrong to think that by giving a man help, you are emasculating him, if you think about it, that's kind of an insult to a woman, because it's like someone is saying "that a man should never be advised by a woman" So what I want to know is, why do some people feel that it is emasculating for a woman to advise a man? Do some feel that a woman should never put a man in a position where SHE is shown to be more wise, more knowledgeable, smarter, than a man? Just wondering about the deeper meanings behind all of this discussion.

Hmmmmm, you have hit the heart of this issue mami!
The sexiest thing about a man is one who loves your intelligence because it makes BOTH of you grow. I am going to be wise in some instance and vice versa.

If treatment is naturally respectful and nurturing, women and a men compliment each other, however not everyone truly is comfortable with that truth.

 

[Evolving78]

Nine times out of 10, it's not WHAT we say, but HOW we say it.... A woman can win a man over by her conversation, her lifestyle, the way she conducts herself.... and say and do things in such a way that gets the job done and makes her man looks like he did it all.... for the woman, that's humility, power under control, quiet strength... and most importantly, SECURITY in oneself....

The Dunkin Donuts incident does not look like emasculation to me. In fact, it is an example of HELP...making your man look good and stay well, esp. as you all were on your way somewhere. How would that look if your man showed up somewhere and he wasn't together and you could have helped him out with that? Not cool....

There's a fine line between helping and manipulation, though....

I don't know the difference between helping and manipulation and I have yet to learn how to make it look like he is the victor in different situations.

 

[Lady Esquire]

LE, you sould like a good woman and an excellent, loving wife. I think your husband is honored to have you, as you are to have him. I just love black love and seeing black families together and in love. I see that you did nothing wrong. And I also think that black women need to start admitting and accepting that we are not Superwomen. We have needs, wants, vulnerabilities. We can't be strong for everyone all the time. I don't know you but it sounds like your husband appreciates you and accepts you as you are, and that's rare in this day and age. Hold on to that love, girl. You are extremely lucky!

AWWWWWWWWWWW! I really wish I can give you a big ole hug! You got me feeling all froggy in my throat. Seriously, that was sweet. Love got much easier when I learned to let go, and stay out of my own way. He on the other hand says I am far from a wilting flower, which he had got tired of dating, and loves that I am a rose with thorns!

 

[Evolving78]

I think we have a problem with correcting men in front of people or our timing is off or something.

 

[Seeking8Rights]

No offense but....... emasculating a man over jelly donuts.... wow. All I can say is wow. So she was controlling because she made a suggestion about jelly donuts?.......wow

It's the principle not the jelly donuts or else the OP wouldn't have even asked the question her self.

 

[Seeking8Rights]

Whoa Kelcee, you dug deep! Which is precisely why I started this thread. DH and I have a very open relationship, with honest and consistent communication. We check each other when the other crosses whatever lines. So for the major and clearly apparent things, I definitely know not to do.

Its these tiny little examples where it may come into question. At the end of the day, DH actually likes "some" wifely attention, such as wiping the sweat off of his nose (he says its cute), but there are going to be those little things which may pose n question in my mind.

And if you do not have your own internal checks and balances, that is where a woman creeps into that gray area, where she can subtly morph into the kind of wife who mothers rather than nurtures.

DH is messy when eating in the car, and he likes it when I check for things like that...especially when we are on our way to an affair...but your points are duly noted. Thanks.

Yes, I agree with internal checks and balances, however, I think such system should be kept to a minimum and cover the basics for the reasons of preservation of self.

My DH is messy too when eating in the car especially with sausage biscuits, but I help him by requesting we get extra napkins so that while he is driving I can tuck them in his waist or whatever, but again, I would never suggest that he get something different than what he ordered. I wouldn't want him to order steak for me instead of pasta because I splash sauce everywhere.

When DH eats messy sometimes, it makes me laugh because that's one of the reasons why I love him---he eats and doesn't give a crap who is looking. My husbands idiosyncrasies is what I love about him the most, and I don't change them I may offer aid when appropriate but not change.

But, this is just my opinion of things.

 

[foxxymami]

AWWWWWWWWWWW! I really wish I can give you a big ole hug! You got me feeling all froggy in my throat. Seriously, that was sweet. Love got much easier when I learned to let go, and stay out of my own way. He on the other hand says I am far from a wilting flower, which he had got tired of dating, and loves that I am a rose with thorns!

This is soo very touching and it almost makes me cry

Sometimes in my rlshp, I feel like I'm our worst enemy
I did something disrespectful to him last night, and this morning he woke up and kissed me, told me he was sorry (for getting upset at me), and told me he loved me and not to worry about it (cause I kept apologizing over and over and over). Then he texted me and asked me to have lunch with him. My SO is a good man, and I just don't want things to go downhill over my lapses in judgement.

 

[Lady Esquire]

Yes, I agree with internal checks and balances, however, I think such system should be kept to a minimum and cover the basics for the reasons of preservation of self.

My DH is messy too when eating in the car especially with sausage biscuits, but I help him by requesting we get extra napkins so that while he is driving I can tuck them in his waist or whatever, but again, I would never suggest that he get something different than what he ordered. I wouldn't want him to order steak for me instead of pasta because I splash sauce everywhere.

When DH eats messy sometimes, it makes me laugh because that's one of the reasons why I love him---he eats and doesn't give a crap who is looking. My husbands idiosyncrasies is what I love about him the most, and I don't change them I may offer aid when appropriate but not change.

But, this is just my opinion of things.

I definitely agree with the bolded, frequent checks and balances would make me a nutbasket! You bring up a good point about the napkins...hmmmm...good point.

 

[Lady Esquire]

This is soo very touching and it almost makes me cry

Sometimes in my rlshp, I feel like I'm our worst enemy
I did something disrespectful to him last night, and this morning he woke up and kissed me, told me he was sorry (for getting upset at me), and told me he loved me and not to worry about it (cause I kept apologizing over and over and over). Then he texted me and asked me to have lunch with him. My SO is a good man, and I just don't want things to go downhill over my lapses in judgement.

What does rlshp mean?

Sounds like that man loves you, girl. Well, it is a good thing that you acknowledge your occasional laspe in judgment. And the fact that he quickly forgave you shows how much grace he shows you.

Relax and release...and receive the rewards that come from that leap of faith.

 

[itismehmmkay]

Donut boy was just trippin.

I think it's a fine line b/w being domineering and emasculating. That scenario would've been different if you told Donut guy directly to change the orders. But here, DH still got to make his own decision.

I think men like domineering women anyway

 

[itismehmmkay]

Yep, I remember this scene, which is one of the reasons why her character is hopelessly single.

And to add to that....a woman making more money than her man....oooooh lawd, now that is a whole other thread!

right

 

[lisana]

Hmmmmm, you have hit the heart of this issue mami!
The sexiest thing about a man is one who loves your intelligence because it makes BOTH of you grow. I am going to be wise in some instance and vice versa.

If treatment is naturally respectful and nurturing, women and a men compliment each other, however not everyone truly is comfortable with that truth.

Exactly. It's also interesting to me, the whole concept of doing things for a man in a way that makes the man "believe" he is doing it himself or thinking it himself. This once again, facilitates the concept of the woman not being the one who is MORE wise, strong, right, the SAVIOUR, whatever. Which also means the man never has to thank her and acknowledge that she was the one who lead with success. That to me is the crux of this issue. Now some may disagree but that really is personal, isn't it? If you think that this concept is not about that and is instead makes you more of a woman, a wife, then, do you, go 'head, girl But to me, it's deeper and darker and really speaks to issues of equality between men and women. But that's just me...

 

[Ms Red]

Awwww It sounds like you have a very loving, patient and mature SO

This is soo very touching and it almost makes me cry

Sometimes in my rlshp, I feel like I'm our worst enemy
I did something disrespectful to him last night, and this morning he woke up and kissed me, told me he was sorry (for getting upset at me), and told me he loved me and not to worry about it (cause I kept apologizing over and over and over). Then he texted me and asked me to have lunch with him. My SO is a good man, and I just don't want things to go downhill over my lapses in judgement.

 

[PaperClip]

I don't know the difference between helping and manipulation and I have yet to learn how to make it look like he is the victor in different situations.

I think it's what the woman wants to get out of it.... So if a woman is helping her man with selfish motives versus sincere support, I think that's the difference....

 

[Lady Esquire]

I think it's what the woman wants to get out of it.... So if a woman is helping her man with selfish motives versus sincere support, I think that's the difference....

 

[foxxymami]

What does rlshp mean?

Sounds like that man loves you, girl. Well, it is a good thing that you acknowledge your occasional laspe in judgment. And the fact that he quickly forgave you shows how much grace he shows you.

Relax and release...and receive the rewards that come from that leap of faith.

Thank you so much for saying that....we are growing together so beautifully and I just don't want to ruin it. But you are right.....relaxing, releasing, and having faith will lead me right


**rlshp is just my shorthand for relationship**

 

[Lady Esquire]

Thank you so much for saying that....we are growing together so beautifully and I just don't want to ruin it. But you are right.....relaxing, releasing, and having faith will lead me right


**rlshp is just my shorthand for relationship**

Oh, duh! You're welcome, sounds like you two love each other. Enjoy him. Be blessed.

 

[tatje]

Hey Lady Esquire,

I personally don't think you emasculated your husband with that comment. I'm sure you were gentle when you said it and had him in mind. The Pakistan (sp) man may be a little sensitive and that is his culture. No one asked him. He should learn to stay out of people's business.

Anyways, I feel that in general we can and probably do so without knowing, but like someone else said "a real man is bothered by that."

I think that comment made by your husband was a little wrong and hurtful. You were only trying to help him. Just a little reminder.

 

[The Girl]

Its these tiny little examples where it may come into question. At the end of the day, DH actually likes "some" wifely attention, such as wiping the sweat off of his nose (he says its cute), but there are going to be those little things which may pose n question in my mind.

And if you do not have your own internal checks and balances, that is where a woman creeps into that gray area, where she can subtly morph into the kind of wife who mothers rather than nurtures.

DH is messy when eating in the car, and he likes it when I check for things like that...especially when we are on our way to an affair...but your points are duly noted. Thanks.

...see I was gonna ask about this type of stuff. When I was a really smart mouthed and _itchy young girl, I used to tell my boyfriends; "When you act like a man, I will treat you like one". If I have to clean up the mess why shouldn't I comment? If you and my 6 yr old act the same why shoudl I treat you different b/c you have a penis? I do agree it is in the tone which is why i dont say that phrase anymore UNLESS the guy pisses me off. I don't like to argue but when I do I go for the jugular.

What I'm about to say will create a firestorm, but I'mma just say it:

The problem is NOT women needing to check themselves in terms of how we treat our men. The problem is that historically black women have coddled and babied black men so much that we have become overly-sensitive about emasculation. A "real" man will never be emasculated. There wouldn't even be this concern because a real man would just know when not to be hurt or sensitive about this kind of thing. And we as black women should stop being so concerned with this. We want our men to be men. I don't think you did anything wrong. You were just trying to protect your man. Now, how you said it may have mattered, but I don't see anything wrong with what you did.

I agree with the coddling part. My ex was like that b/c his dad was liked that. He really thought there were two sets or rules, his and mine. He could cook, eat, and leave the dishes out and I was supposed to clean it up. If I did the same thing, he thought it was "nasty for a woman to leave dishes in the sink". He could leave socks and draws all overthe bathroom but let me leave my shoes out of the box andIwas trifling. He would hole up in the bedroom after work to "relax"..hello I worked today too! This is your son that needs help.."but women liketo be around kids." OMG that is why I never said yes to his proposals. I don't want to be equal in all things (bills and finances)except "womanly" stuff(cleaning, children and cooking). My dad was a very manly man but he also cooked for us sometimes, helped with homework, etc. My mom never had to tell him about certain things. He was a man before he met her not b/c he met her.
I think I went off topic I aplogize to the OP.

 

[Lady Esquire]

I think that comment made by your husband was a little wrong and hurtful. You were only trying to help him. Just a little reminder.

What comment are you referring to? DH laughed his butt off, we cracked a few jokes, and we changed the subject almost immediately.

 

[tatje]

Hi,
I was referring to when you said "DH said I do not have to be an A-hole to prove I am a man."

I may have read it thinking that he was saying it mean. But since you guys laughed and it was no biggie then ..........

I was thinking you weren't trying to be an A-hole. You were just trying to help him.


I need to work on that myself. I tend to skim people's messenges. sorry.

 

[Farida]

I do think a woman can emasculate even a REAL man.

A good man wants to keep his wife happy and keep peace in the home. The way to emasculate a man is make him feel/know that he is unnecessary. By challenging his roles and downplaying his value.

I think it is an unfortunate consequence of feminism. Feminism is a good thing but it had yielded some bad things too.

A man, wants to protect, provide and satisfy his wife and family. You emasculate a man by showing him that you don't need or appreciate him to do those things.

Sometimes men can't win so they just let a woman do it all. But men like to fix things, to be handy, so even though you can do it all yourself, he feels more of a man if you let HIM do it.

 

[Seeking8Rights]

I do think a woman can emasculate even a REAL man.

A good man wants to keep his wife happy and keep peace in the home. The way to emasculate a man is make him feel/know that he is unnecessary. By challenging his roles and downplaying his value.

I think it is an unfortunate consequence of feminism. Feminism is a good thing but it had yielded some bad things too.

A man, wants to protect, provide and satisfy his wife and family. You emasculate a man by showing him that you don't need or appreciate him to do those things.

Sometimes men can't win so they just let a woman do it all. But men like to fix things, to be handy, so even though you can do it all yourself, he feels more of a man if you let HIM do it.

ITA. This should be in every womans vows.

 

[lisana]

Actually, the feminist movement allowed women to finally be able to take care of themselves, if they chose to. That wasn't taking anything away from men except the ILLUSION that women NEEDED to be taken care of. And now there are some people who think a man's self esteem must continue to be tied up in that illusion. That's just sad. As I have alluded to before, marriage is give and take. Yes, there are certain roles that men and women take, but I think it really is a result of choices (forces) that we put on ourselves and not so much a biological need. So, I take issue with someone saying a man NEEDS to do this or feel this. Doesn't every adult, deep down, want to feel that they can take care of themselves and their children? I agree about men wanting to feel needed and valued, but that works both ways. Times are changing and it just doesn't make sense for women to continue playing games where they feel they have to pretend this or that to make a man feel needed. A man will feel needed based on his ACTIONS, what he actually , realistically brings to the table. And of course, in addition to that, there are times when we ALL give a little more to the other person. A little push, a little extra gift, where we allow them to think they did more than they did because we love them and we are "taking one for the team". But making that a habit and allowing female wisdom to be downplayed does not a real marriage make, not my marriage anyway.

 

[Lady Esquire]

Hi,
I was referring to when you said "DH said I do not have to be an A-hole to prove I am a man."

I may have read it thinking that he was saying it mean. But since you guys laughed and it was no biggie then ..........

I was thinking you weren't trying to be an A-hole. You were just trying to help him.


I need to work on that myself. I tend to skim people's messenges. sorry.

Hey hun, DH meant that the DD Pakastani was asserting his own manhood by being an A-Hole. DH did not even think twice about it. No need to apologize.

 

[Lady Esquire]

A man, wants to protect, provide and satisfy his wife and family. You emasculate a man by showing him that you don't need or appreciate him to do those things.

I agree with this statement wholeheartedly. I celebrate this primal instinct that a REAL man has. Therefore, if a woman goes out of her way to stomp on or devalue it and her man actually starts to get robbed of that instinct as a result... then yes, then that is emasculation. But a REAL man will not put up with it and will usually check her immediately or at least when he's at his breaking point. Really most marriages won't survive if this becomes common practice by the wife. And if they do survive, their marriage becomes highly dysfunctional.

 

[Lady Esquire]

Actually, the feminist movement allowed women to finally be able to take care of themselves, if they chose to. That wasn't taking anything away from men except the ILLUSION that women NEEDED to be taken care of. And now there are some people who think a man's self esteem must continue to be tied up in that illusion. That's just sad. As I have alluded to before, marriage is give and take. Yes, there are certain roles that men and women take, but I think it really is a result of choices (forces) that we put on ourselves and not so much a biological need. So, I take issue with someone saying a man NEEDS to do this or feel this. Doesn't every adult, deep down, want to feel that they can take care of themselves and their children? I agree about men wanting to feel needed and valued, but that works both ways. Times are changing and it just doesn't make sense for women to continue playing games where they feel they have to pretend this or that to make a man feel needed. A man will feel needed based on his ACTIONS, what he actually , realistically brings to the table. And of course, in addition to that, there are times when we ALL give a little more to the other person. A little push, a little extra gift, where we allow them to think they did more than they did because we love them and we are "taking one for the team". But making that a habit and allowing female wisdom to be downplayed does not a real marriage make, not my marriage anyway.

I agree with this. Essentially a REAL man will not allow a woman to emasculate him. A woman may try to speak from the side of her mouth in order to strip his manly strength away. But a REAL man will never actually be DEPRIVED of something that is innately apart of who he is.

My being an intelligent strong woman will never make him uneasy. My being talented and able to provide for myself will never make him uneasy. My having some wisdom and sharing it with him, will never overpower his ability to provide and be the man of the relationship. In fact, he will find my strengths sexy, and he will look for those qualities in a woman. If you have to walk around eggshells around a man, to prevent from emasculating him, then he obviously has issues with his own virality.

 

[The Girl]

I do think a woman can emasculate even a REAL man.

A good man wants to keep his wife happy and keep peace in the home. The way to emasculate a man is make him feel/know that he is unnecessary. By challenging his roles and downplaying his value.

I think it is an unfortunate consequence of feminism. Feminism is a good thing but it had yielded some bad things too.

A man, wants to protect, provide and satisfy his wife and family. You emasculate a man by showing him that you don't need or appreciate him to do those things.

Sometimes men can't win so they just let a woman do it all. But men like to fix things, to be handy, so even though you can do it all yourself, he feels more of a man if you let HIM do it.

...ok forgive me if I come off combative. Wouldn't a real manmake himself needed though? If our house gets broken into or I am a victim of a petty thief, isn't he going to be emasculated b/c he didn't protect me? If the lights get turned off, or (pardon the candor) I fake "it", isn't he still emasculated? Those areall things that I have NO control over but I am subject to the consequence? I only ask b/cI really do want to understand if marriage is not meant for me. If I overlook his shortcomings, what makes him my ideal mate? Wouldn't he be able to fulfill my needs albeit security, financial, etc. If not, is he the wrong one? With that said, are some women "unmarriable"? They have providedfor themselves and all a man can do is enhance? He will never be needed but wanted? Is that contrary to the male psyche?