Women, Do we unwittingly emasculate our men?

[MissScarlett]

You know, I agree. I'm just thinking... the men who had it going on and KNEW it never ever ever used the word "emasculate." They never accused a woman of trying to do that to them...

I will say that in general, we as women can be a little more careful with some of our tendencies to be "mothering," but as long as we're not yelling/hollering/screaming/saying 'you ain't no man' then it's hardly emasculation.

I agree with this. It depends on the man, his overall masculinity, his prescence....which is why I say, I always go for the very masculine men. Those I think you just know not to emasculate.

Seriously dh would reach for the dictionary for the definition I have a strong personality but dh's persona manages to command a respect from me as a man/husband/father that overrides all of that. It just doesn't really happen I suspose.

I think this would come an issue with larger issues as a whole in a relationship or with men who had never asserted their masculinity in the first place. I guess your 'pushover' type of men for lack of a better word

 

[MissScarlett]

I agree. I feel that the personality and character traits of a "real man" (however we want to define it) commands a certain level of respect that makes "emascualting" him very hard

ITA, I just said something similar. I don't think you can basically 'punk' a real man. You would know that from the beginning.

 

[MzLady78]

I agree with you. But his delivery was so friggin funny and it came from left field, that we did not even process the level of his ignorance until after we had a few laughs.

LOL. I know how that is.

 

[sunnydaze]

I agree with this. It depends on the man, his overall masculinity, his prescence....which is why I say, I always go for the very masculine men. Those I think you just know not to emasculate.

Seriously dh would reach for the dictionary for the definition I have a strong personality but dh's persona manages to command a respect from me as a man/husband/father that overrides all of that. It just doesn't really happen I suspose.

I think this would come an issue with larger issues as a whole in a relationship or with men who had never asserted their masculinity in the first place. I guess your 'pushover' type of men for lack of a better word

Yup or men who have not experienced their own level of personal success, whatever that may be.

 

[The Girl]

In that instance I dont think you did anything wrong, you were trying to help him out

I personally don't think that you can emasculate a real man but then again thats just me

exactly and if there is nothing to say how can I emasculate him? Men are so confusing, I swear that is the curse for real.

 

[Lady Esquire]

especially when his job is to serve donuts through a small glass window. I'm usually friendly, but I gotta' agree with Luvmylife. I would have reminded Donut boy that it's his job to serve donuts, not share his opinion on anything not involving the words coffee, donut, or bagel. He needs a tall glass of STFU. He is perfectly entitled to travel back from whenst he came.

I agree with your entire post. But thank you for this cause I had a nice hearty laugh off of that right here!

 

[MissScarlett]

Yup or men who have not experienced their own level of personal success, whatever that may be.

Exactly.

If you are the director of everything, if you openly call the shots....TELL your DH/SO that we're going to buy a new car/get a new house/go here/do this/do that....then its something about HIM that makes that OK.

I do think as women we should/could learn to be more feminine and even if you run the show, just don't always show it. This works for me

And the argument against that is.....the men don't step up. Perhaps their mother tried to emasculate them, I think along the way, some men (black) men have faltered in their steps to becoming a man and what the responsiblity of being a man/husband/father really is--- Another thread I know

 

[The Girl]

What I hate is this... folks say, "let the man be the man."

Okay fine.

Well, why is it that when a woman tries to "be a woman," (like what the OP did in noticing that jelly causes stains), then she's criticized or accused of "emasculating" a man.

A good partnership requires compromises on both sides. Women sometimes need to fall back and not stifle the man's decision-making (not in the OP's case, but in general), but men sometimes need to drop the macho thing and let a woman nurture.

That phrase irks me b/c there is never a clear definition of what it means. Basically, let him think he is the "ish"even if you know he's not. Nah, I'm good.....and single too tee hee

 

[The Girl]

Though I don't think this was the case for the OP, I do think it's very possible to emasculate men. I have seen many women do this to their husbands, boyfriends, and grown sons. Constantly harping about every little thing, pointing out his flaws/mistakes in front of a room full of people and embarrassing him, etc.

If I need to call my man on something, I'll do it privately not in front of the entire family at Thanksgiving dinner.

Oh most definitely but some men actually feel that a woman shouldn't even say certain things to them. I don't believe in arguing/fussing/any of that in public or in front of friends/family/children. I am gonna stop before I get hype and remember why I am single.

 

[Lady Esquire]

To the OP, you are a better woman than me, because homeboy would've been wearing those jelly donuts...but as I have stated before I'm an evil ***** That made me a little pissed just reading it.

Back OT, I think it is possible to unwittingly emasculate your guy...I don't think you did anything of the sort in your example though.

For me, this was something I had to learn because I have a bit of a forceful personality and I can come off as bossy. (I also think it's the nature of my career, but later on that...) When DH and I got together, I was so used to doing things for myself, by myself, running the whole show, that I didn't realize how that "bossiness" was being percieved by other people. (...and I also had to learn that men care very much how they are perceived especially by their peers...) So, I had to tone it down and let him take the reins, especially around others. I had to learn to ask him things...not tell him. Make suggestions...not demands. Compromise...not insist on my way.

Basically, I had to learn to treat him with the same respect I wanted...if I wanted him to be around. Sounds harsh, but it's real.

I know folks say, why should a woman have to bow down and cater to a man's ego, but to me it's not about that. If you want the man to be the head of your household, you gotta let him lead IMHO.

I hope I made some sense...I'm still mad about the jelly donut

You make perfect sense. Over the years, I have had to let go of the reins too. I am extremely independent, and compromise takes practice. But at the end, it makes for a much happier marriage.

Also, back in the day, when I was younger I would have reacted on a knee-jerk reaction, and raised hell on the DD Pakastani. But over the years, I have learned to brush the BS off really quickly...I take more satisfaction letting one wallow in his own stupidity. But there are still those days, where if ya catch me on the wrong day....well who knows! For the most part though, ole boy at Dunkin Donuts looked more foolish than anything else.

 

[Luvmylife]

Exactly.

If you are the director of everything, if you openly call the shots....TELL your DH/SO that we're going to buy a new car/get a new house/go here/do this/do that....then its something about HIM that makes that OK.

I agree. The average MAN wouldn't put up with this type of behavior. So that confirms another posters assertion that you can't emasculate a real MAN...he wouldn't stand for it.

I do think as women we should/could learn to be more feminine and even if you run the show, just don't always show it. This works for me

I agree with this as well and this was something I had to learn.

 

[MissScarlett]

You make perfect sense. Over the years, I have had to let go of the reins too. I am extremely independent, and compromise takes practice. But at the end, it makes for a much happier marriage.

Also, back in the day, when I was younger I would have reacted on a knee-jerk reaction, and raised hell on the DD Pakastani. But over the years, I have learned to brush the BS off really quickly...I take more satisfaction letting one wallow in his own stupidity. But there are still those days, where if ya catch me on the wrong day....well who knows! For the most part though, ole boy at Dunkin Donuts looked more foolish than anything else.

 

[Lady Esquire]

I agree with this. It depends on the man, his overall masculinity, his prescence....which is why I say, I always go for the very masculine men. Those I think you just know not to emasculate.

Seriously dh would reach for the dictionary for the definition I have a strong personality but dh's persona manages to command a respect from me as a man/husband/father that overrides all of that. It just doesn't really happen I suspose.

DH does have that certain something where he can command respect from me while simultaneously he appreciating my strength and my femininity. If both individuals are playing their position...then its all good and smooth sailing.

Every now and then, someone may cross a blurry line, but the relationship and the egos must be healthy enough to allow the partners to check one another...without questioning his manhood or her womanhood.

 

[Lady Esquire]

What I hate is this... folks say, "let the man be the man."

Yeah, I used to hate that saying to...esp if it has to do with cheating or verbal abuse, something to that effect.

But for the most part, I love to wear the lingerie and heels and let him wear the after-shave and the loafers.

I have a father and he has a mother. And we both have our kids to parent. So with that said, I embrace the hell out of my current role as his LOVER!

 

[PaperClip]

Sounds like everybody is on the same page on what kind of man cannot be emasculated....

This thread reminds me of this week's episode of Girlfriends: remember an early scene when Joan and Aaron went to the concert and Joan said something like "if you want to be the head of the household, then make some head-of-the-household money" and she said it in front of everybody....

Now that was emasculatin'! Aaron couldn't do anything but get up and leave....

 

[Lady Esquire]

Sounds like everybody is on the same page on what kind of man cannot be emasculated....

This thread reminds me of this week's episode of Girlfriends: remember an early scene when Joan and Aaron went to the concert and Joan said something like "if you want to be the head of the household, then make some head-of-the-household money" and she said it in front of everybody....

Now that was emasculatin'! Aaron couldn't do anything but get up and leave....

Yep, I remember this scene, which is one of the reasons why her character is hopelessly single.

And to add to that....a woman making more money than her man....oooooh lawd, now that is a whole other thread!

 

[winterinatl]

That is what I learned from the incident. I definitely do not do any of the more obvious and major things that question his manhood. But I do not want to morph into THAT kinda wife either who babies him without even noticing it.

Although, DH did not seem bothered by the situation. He said he is secure in his manhood.

He seems really secure from his response. I'm hoping you didn't take the earlier post as a criticism, it just is what it is.

The dude had the nerve to comment on y'all's relationship while serving JELLY DONUTS!

 

[Lady Esquire]

I'm hoping you didn't take the earlier post as a criticism, it just is what it is.

The dude had the nerve to comment on y'all's relationship while serving JELLY DONUTS!

Nah, mami none taken. I enjoyed having this discussion with you ladies.

 

[PhonyBaloney500]

OH WOW...

Sounds like that guy had a lot of hatred for you. Or maybe it's because he works at Dunkin' Donuts. If I were you, I would have told him well I'm sorry for you but this is America and you need to take that mess back to Pakistan and asked to speak to the manager or thrown his little stank donuts out the window in front of him.

I don't think that was a good example of emasculating a man. Jeez- who wants to be seen at an event with a dude with jelly all over his shirt???

Who knew that manhood was sooooo fragile???

MAN UP!! - just my two cents

I was ROLLIN at that one! ITA. Dunkin Donuts man needs to mind his ****** business and STFU and make the donuts. The nerve!

Yes, yes, women can treat their men like kids but that is NOT an example.

 

[Je Ne Sais Quoi]

I have no advice to add Just wanted to laugh because "by dammit, he is a man and he WILL have the jelly donuts woman!!!!"

 

[StrawberryQueen]

In that instance I dont think you did anything wrong, you were trying to help him out

I personally don't think that you can emasculate a real man but then again thats just me

I agree.

 

[Seeking8Rights]

On Sunday, my kids, DH and I drove up to the Dunkin Donuts window. DH ordered half dozen glaze donuts into the microphone. Then when he drove up to the window to pay, DH wanted to change two of them into jelly donuts. Since we had somewhere to go afterwards, I put my hand on his lap, and reminded him that almost everytime he orders jelly donuts, he gets his shirt dirty. Not thinking twice about it, he turns over to the guy at the window and smiles and says, “The wife makes a good point, keep 'em all glazed.”


The man who is in the store shoots me daggers with his eyes. When he hands DH the box, the man says, “I am not American; I am Pakastani and where I am from, women stay down. Men get what they want in my culture. There are 2 jelly donuts in the box!” Me and DH died laughing and drove off!


DH said I do not have to be an A-hole to prove I am a man, and shrugged it off. Later on, it bothered me. I know that I was NOT trying to force my opinion on DH. But are there subtle ways of emasculating a man...or on the flip side...dominating a woman's opinion?

I think that was a form of emasculating. He requested to jelly donuts and you brought up the fact that he gets messy with them, which was stated for what purpose? In the end, he changed his mind and asked for all glazed.

Your DH wouldn't have been an A-hole, if he replied back to you and said "we'll get extra napkins and those jelly donuts".

Furthermore, you wouldn't have been emasculating if you would have let him get the jelly donuts and then ask for extra napkins so help him not get jelly over the place. Win/Win right?

It's like if my child comes to be and says, he is going to wear a white shirt instead of blue. My response is well, you know Timmy you should wear the white shirt because when you eat you get messy. Well, first, my son is going to decide based on the source and if the source has more weight or influence in his life, then he will go with such accordingly.

If you hadn't made that comment, and say some other person in the car did, I'm sure your husband would have went ahead and requested the jelly donuts. BUT because the statement came from you (greater influence) then he made a choice in favor of your statement.

This is where men get the complaints about control from women. My DH explains this to me all the time about how so and so at work was complaining because wifey didn't let them do this that and the other via nagging, controling suggestions, etc.

Men, know what is best for them and we are not their mothers, so we need to stop treating men like they are our children. But, yet we want to complain about men not leading households, making sound decisions, being "men", but yet we handicap them and emasculate them from being one.

 

[lexi08]

I think that was a form of emasculating. He requested to jelly donuts and you brought up the fact that he gets messy with them, which was stated for what purpose? In the end, he changed his mind and asked for all glazed.

Your DH wouldn't have been an A-hole, if he replied back to you and said "we'll get extra napkins and those jelly donuts".

Furthermore, you wouldn't have been emasculating if you would have let him get the jelly donuts and then ask for extra napkins so help him not get jelly over the place. Win/Win right?

It's like if my child comes to be and says, he is going to wear a white shirt instead of blue. My response is well, you know Timmy you should wear the white shirt because when you eat you get messy. Well, first, my son is going to decide based on the source and if the source has more weight or influence in his life, then he will go with such accordingly.

If you hadn't made that comment, and say some other person in the car did, I'm sure your husband would have went ahead and requested the jelly donuts. BUT because the statement came from you (greater influence) then he made a choice in favor of your statement.

This is where men get the complaints about control from women. My DH explains this to me all the time about how so and so at work was complaining because wifey didn't let them do this that and the other via nagging, controling suggestions, etc.

Men, know what is best for them and we are not their mothers, so we need to stop treating men like they are our children. But, yet we want to complain about men not leading households, making sound decisions, being "men", but yet we handicap them and emasculate them from being one.

No offense but....... emasculating a man over jelly donuts.... wow. All I can say is wow. So she was controlling because she made a suggestion about jelly donuts?.......wow

 

[seraphinelle]

No offense but....... emasculating a man over jelly donuts.... wow. All I can say is wow. So she was controlling because she made a suggestion about jelly donuts?.......wow

It's not over JUST the jelly donuts, it's the point she's making.

I think Keclee explained it well.

 

[Serenity_Peace]

In that instance I dont think you did anything wrong, you were trying to help him out

I personally don't think that you can emasculate a real man but then again thats just me

What I'm about to say will create a firestorm, but I'mma just say it:

The problem is NOT women needing to check themselves in terms of how we treat our men. The problem is that historically black women have coddled and babied black men so much that we have become overly-sensitive about emasculation. A "real" man will never be emasculated. There wouldn't even be this concern because a real man would just know when not to be hurt or sensitive about this kind of thing. And we as black women should stop being so concerned with this. We want our men to be men. I don't think you did anything wrong. You were just trying to protect your man. Now, how you said it may have mattered, but I don't see anything wrong with what you did.

 

[Lady Esquire]

I think that was a form of emasculating. He requested to jelly donuts and you brought up the fact that he gets messy with them, which was stated for what purpose? In the end, he changed his mind and asked for all glazed.

Your DH wouldn't have been an A-hole, if he replied back to you and said "we'll get extra napkins and those jelly donuts".

Furthermore, you wouldn't have been emasculating if you would have let him get the jelly donuts and then ask for extra napkins so help him not get jelly over the place. Win/Win right?

It's like if my child comes to be and says, he is going to wear a white shirt instead of blue. My response is well, you know Timmy you should wear the white shirt because when you eat you get messy. Well, first, my son is going to decide based on the source and if the source has more weight or influence in his life, then he will go with such accordingly.

If you hadn't made that comment, and say some other person in the car did, I'm sure your husband would have went ahead and requested the jelly donuts. BUT because the statement came from you (greater influence) then he made a choice in favor of your statement.

This is where men get the complaints about control from women. My DH explains this to me all the time about how so and so at work was complaining because wifey didn't let them do this that and the other via nagging, controling suggestions, etc.

Men, know what is best for them and we are not their mothers, so we need to stop treating men like they are our children. But, yet we want to complain about men not leading households, making sound decisions, being "men", but yet we handicap them and emasculate them from being one.

Whoa Kelcee, you dug deep! Which is precisely why I started this thread. DH and I have a very open relationship, with honest and consistent communication. We check each other when the other crosses whatever lines. So for the major and clearly apparent things, I definitely know not to do.

Its these tiny little examples where it may come into question. At the end of the day, DH actually likes "some" wifely attention, such as wiping the sweat off of his nose (he says its cute), but there are going to be those little things which may pose n question in my mind.

And if you do not have your own internal checks and balances, that is where a woman creeps into that gray area, where she can subtly morph into the kind of wife who mothers rather than nurtures.

DH is messy when eating in the car, and he likes it when I check for things like that...especially when we are on our way to an affair...but your points are duly noted. Thanks.

 

[Serenity_Peace]

No offense but....... emasculating a man over jelly donuts.... wow. All I can say is wow. So she was controlling because she made a suggestion about jelly donuts?.......wow

I don't understand that, either. We baby our black men too much and are far too sensitive about this. If me and my baby where in the car, and he said to me, "sweetie, now you know that you may mess up your make-up if you eat that jelly donut," I would be thankful. First, he cares and understands that I want to look good and maintain that look. Second, he lovingly warned me about what jelly donuts could do to my appearance. He didn't demand that I not have them or scold me for that decision. Again, please explain how this woman emasculated her man?!??

 

[Lady Esquire]

What I'm about to say will create a firestorm, but I'mma just say it:

The problem is NOT women needing to check themselves in terms of how we treat our men. The problem is that historically black women have coddled and babied black men so much that we have become overly-sensitive about emasculation. A "real" man will never be emasculated. There wouldn't even be this concern because a real man would just know when not to be hurt or sensitive about this kind of thing. And we as black women should stop being so concerned with this. We want our men to be men. I don't think you did anything wrong. You were just trying to protect your man. Now, how you said it may have mattered, but I don't see anything wrong with what you did.

Speak that truth....THANK YOU! I grew up with a mother who has mastered the art of coddling and babying a man. So through observation, I learned what NOT to do. It has never been a concern of mine, at least HE has never brought it up in 11 going on 12 years.

The how part is crucial. I placed my hand on his lap, and said it with concern, not that babyish condescending tone. Ya'll know that tone?! Anyway, I love what you said.

 

[lexi08]

I don't understand that, either. We baby our black men too much and are far too sensitive about this. If me and my baby where in the car, and he said to me, "sweetie, now you know that you may mess up your make-up if you eat that jelly donut," I would be thankful. First, he cares and understands that I want to look good and maintain that look. Second, he lovingly warned me about what jelly donuts could do to my appearance. He didn't demand that I not have them or scold me for that decision. Again, please explain how this woman emasculated her man?!??

Agreed

 

[Lady Esquire]

I don't understand that, either. We baby our black men too much and are far too sensitive about this. If me and my baby where in the car, and he said to me, "sweetie, now you know that you may mess up your make-up if you eat that jelly donut," I would be thankful. First, he cares and understands that I want to look good and maintain that look. Second, he lovingly warned me about what jelly donuts could do to my appearance. He didn't demand that I not have them or scold me for that decision. Again, please explain how this woman emasculated her man?!??

Excellent point! And that is exactly how DH feels when I do that.