Women, Do we unwittingly emasculate our men?

[Farida]

Don't get me wrong, I love the fact that feminism fought for women's right to choose what they want to do (and I'm not talking abortion here).

What I mean, is there is a brand of feminism that has cropped that is pretty much "I don't need a man" and "men are evil and are the causes of all the problems in the world."

LadyEsquire what I mean by emasculating even a REAL man, is that it gets to a point where a woman is so rebellious and acting out about everything that the man realizes that he needs to step back or step out (as in leave) because the woman won't acquiesce, and I've seen this usually in a family with kids where the man steps back to keep the peace and the marriage so that the kids can have a home, but deep down he is unhappy and leaves as soon as the kids are 18.

I think we need to define what we need by "emasculate." I'm not talking that literally turn him into a woman, but just basically taking away one of the aspects of what HE considers a vital part/sense of his masculinity whether it be parenthood, or being the head of the home, or being a provider.

I'm still in college and the number of times I've heard girls complain or advise another girl to dump a guy just because he expressed the idea of wanting to be a provider or protector or head of the household...

I mean, we are all entitled to be in whatever type of relationship we want to, but I'm traditional.

 

[The Girl]

Don't get me wrong, I love the fact that feminism fought for women's right to choose what they want to do (and I'm not talking abortion here).

What I mean, is there is a brand of feminism that has cropped that is pretty much "I don't need a man" and "men are evil and are the causes of all the problems in the world."

LadyEsquire what I mean by emasculating even a REAL man, is that it gets to a point where a woman is so rebellious and acting out about everything that the man realizes that he needs to step back or step out (as in leave) because the woman won't acquiesce, and I've seen this usually in a family with kids where the man steps back to keep the peace and the marriage so that the kids can have a home, but deep down he is unhappy and leaves as soon as the kids are 18.

I think we need to define what we need by "emasculate." I'm not talking that literally turn him into a woman, but just basically taking away one of the aspects of what HE considers a vital part/sense of his masculinity whether it be parenthood, or being the head of the home, or being a provider.

I'm still in college and the number of times I've heard girls complain or advise another girl to dump a guy just because he expressed the idea of wanting to be a provider or protector or head of the household...

I mean, we are all entitled to be in whatever type of relationship we want to, but I'm traditional.

Ohhh I see...my bad. I guess there was a miscommunication. I believe in tradionality (is that a word) as well. I just think it is rare b/c of the high standards it evokes in both men and women.

 

[Lebiya]

Actually, the feminist movement allowed women to finally be able to take care of themselves, if they chose to. That wasn't taking anything away from men except the ILLUSION that women NEEDED to be taken care of. And now there are some people who think a man's self esteem must continue to be tied up in that illusion. That's just sad. As I have alluded to before, marriage is give and take. Yes, there are certain roles that men and women take, but I think it really is a result of choices (forces) that we put on ourselves and not so much a biological need. So, I take issue with someone saying a man NEEDS to do this or feel this. Doesn't every adult, deep down, want to feel that they can take care of themselves and their children? I agree about men wanting to feel needed and valued, but that works both ways. Times are changing and it just doesn't make sense for women to continue playing games where they feel they have to pretend this or that to make a man feel needed. A man will feel needed based on his ACTIONS, what he actually , realistically brings to the table. And of course, in addition to that, there are times when we ALL give a little more to the other person. A little push, a little extra gift, where we allow them to think they did more than they did because we love them and we are "taking one for the team". But making that a habit and allowing female wisdom to be downplayed does not a real marriage make, not my marriage anyway.

I completely and totally agree with this!!!! Very well put. Very refreshing -after reading some of these comments

 

[Farida]

Ohhh I see...my bad. I guess there was a miscommunication. I believe in tradionality (is that a word) as well. I just think it is rare b/c of the high standards it evokes in both men and women.

ya, just miscommunication.

Just like in relationships. Have you ever fought with your SO and you were basically saying the same thing but you didn't get it?

 

[laCriolla]

to the OP
I don't know if someone said this already b/c there are a lot of responses on this one,
but

what you said about the doughnut was okay....but could've been more sly.
I had to learn not to say things in front of other people
but WHO you're saying it in front of makes a BIG difference on how men feel about it. so the doughnut guy-- not so much. the boss...yeah bigger deal.

but it's probably best to practice 'correcting' SO in private.

and since there were 12 doughnuts in the box, that means 10 were left just glazed. why couldn't he order the jelly ones to eat later? I would have figured well i'll let him know maybe he should stick with the glazed. but it didnt have to be suggested as he was ordering. IMHO. Lord knows i've made my share of mistakes.

 

[Farida]

Good point lacriolla. I remember how shocked I was one day when this man at church told his wife to shut up and submit to him, in front of everyone. It was so demoralizing. The donut thing is not nearly as serious but ITA we gotta be careful where we "correct" each other.

 

[MizAvalon]

Good point lacriolla. I remember how shocked I was one day when this man at church told his wife to shut up and submit to him, in front of everyone. It was so demoralizing. The donut thing is not nearly as serious but ITA we gotta be careful where we "correct" each other.

Oh my!

 

[tatiana]

Yes, some women emasculate men.

I watched my mother emasculate my father for years. She even emasculated him in front of family members and his co-workers. There were times as a child I wish he stood up to her and told her to "Be quiet" but he never did.

As a teenager, I told my mother that if she don't stop that he was going to leave her. But she insisted that I didn't know what I was talking about because I was a child.

He ended up leaving my motherl.

 

[belleama]

That's not even true masculinity anyway!

"You can't emasculate a real man"- Well said

I think you can emasculate a real man because a real man is doing whatever it takes to keep his wife happy. If that includes not eating jelly donuts then he's not going to eat any jelly donuts. JMO.

 

[Farida]

Oh my!

I know. It was so awkward.

 

[Syrah]

Two answers. Yes and Not Intentionally.

I've seen a lot of women who unintentionally treat their men like children.

- Were you emasculating in the Jelly Donut situation? Nah. C'mon - it's a jelly donut.
- But did you sound a bit like his mother? Maybe just a little bit.
- Did he appreciate your comment? 100%.

It's a known fact - women try to change men. I don't know why we do it - but I've even found myself trying. And when I realized what I was doing, I gave up - and gave up the relationship. Because if I'm trying to change you, you're not what I want in the first place. Plain and simple.

Look at Girlfriends. Who's had a sustainable relationship? Maya - even with her bullsh*t. Because while she may not agree with everything her man does, she lets him be him. Joan has YET to make one work, because she is emasculating. Not intentionally, but it happens.

I'm more interested in WHY we do it...

 

[Syrah]

I think you can emasculate a real man because a real man is doing whatever it takes to keep his wife happy. If that includes not eating jelly donuts then he's not going to eat any jelly donuts. JMO.

I'm with you.

I like how some folks tried to flip it around and act like a man feeling emasculated is because of HIM - like he's got the problem. Nah, you (infinite) trying to tell a grown ass men, what to do, when to do it and HOW to do it IS the problem.

- Recommending that he not eat a jelly doughnut 'cuz he always spills?? Good advice.
- You telling a man HOW to take out the garbage, and when to do it? Emasculating. He said he'd take out the trash - let him DO it.
- You telling a man HOW to spend his money, when he has no obligation to you (in other words, not married/no kids)? Emasculating.

 

[Syrah]

I agree with this. Essentially a REAL man will not allow a woman to emasculate him. A woman may try to speak from the side of her mouth in order to strip his manly strength away. But a REAL man will never actually be DEPRIVED of something that is innately apart of who he is.

My being an intelligent strong woman will never make him uneasy. My being talented and able to provide for myself will never make him uneasy. My having some wisdom and sharing it with him, will never overpower his ability to provide and be the man of the relationship. In fact, he will find my strengths sexy, and he will look for those qualities in a woman. If you have to walk around eggshells around a man, to prevent from emasculating him, then he obviously has issues with his own virality.

If that's the case, why do some women claim to feel less "womanly" when they find out that they can not give birth??

Is masculinity really innate??? Or is determined by society??

Here's where I'm going with this. Men in the US do not carry "bags". You see a brother walking down the street with a Louis Vuitton satchel and unless he's got a laptop in it, immediate though "he's gay". In Europe and many parts of Asia, it's normal. In the US it is not considered masculine.

In the US, a man staying home and cooking/caring for house and home while wifey is out at work. Is for the most part "ok". In middle eastern countries that is NOT considered masculine, but is worthy of societal ridicule. In the middle east - being male and getting your eyebrows arched is ok. In the US - that is not considered masculine. Wearing V-Neck t-shirts in Europe? Masculine and actually sexy. In the US? Gay. Wearing designer jeans?? Until about 3 years ago - you would have NEVER caught a man and woman walking down the street wearing the same brand jeans (i.e. Seven's, Rock & Republic, William Rast) - now it's sexy. Masculinity is determined by society, and what qualifies as masculine changes as society changes.

While BEING MALE is innate and with it comes certain biological traits, MASCULINITY is determined by society.

Real men CAN be emasculated. Should they not be a little offended when they're being told what to order in a restaurant? Should they not be taken aback when constantly being criticized about how they dress? Yea we all hate them - but what if he really likes his white T's???

Is HE the problem - or are WE?!?

Suggesting ways for a man to improve himself is fine. Offering advice WHEN ASKED is fine. Even contributing to a solution for a problem that you potentially see - fine. Being negative, condescending and unproductive is not ok. And while we may not intend to be that way, sometimes it happens - on accident.

 

[Syrah]

Someone mentioned checks and balances - it's actually pretty simple.

You want to know if something is emasculating (or maybe just out of line or rude)? Consider what you just said and HOW you said it. If someone said it to you, would you be a little offended?

If so - then you probably should've kept your mouth shut.

And I didn't learn that on my own. My dad had to tell me after we went out to dinner one night (mom, dad, boyfriend, me). I said something that bothered him. He didn't check me then at the table, but later that night.

And I was like "Damn...I DO sound like my mother".

 

[cocoberry10]

Two answers. Yes and Not Intentionally.

I've seen a lot of women who unintentionally treat their men like children.

- Were you emasculating in the Jelly Donut situation? Nah. C'mon - it's a jelly donut.
- But did you sound a bit like his mother? Maybe just a little bit.
- Did he appreciate your comment? 100%.

It's a known fact - women try to change men. I don't know why we do it - but I've even found myself trying. And when I realized what I was doing, I gave up - and gave up the relationship. Because if I'm trying to change you, you're not what I want in the first place. Plain and simple.

Look at Girlfriends. Who's had a sustainable relationship? Maya - even with her bullsh*t. Because while she may not agree with everything her man does, she lets him be him. Joan has YET to make one work, because she is emasculating. Not intentionally, but it happens.

I'm more interested in WHY we do it...

I agree with this. And to answer your question below (why we do it). I think that stems from the post-feminist culture we are living in. Clearly there was a need for women to have rights and opportunities. However, the aftermath of the feminist movement has gone far beyond women getting equal rights (which they actually still don’t really have, IMO) to male-bashing and in some cases emasculating a man. I have witnessed too many women disrespecting and defaming their husbands/boyfriends in public, and these were good men (cuz if you aren’t a good man, that’s a whole other ball game). Just as men make general statements about all women, I hear far too many of us doing the same with men. Also, specific to the Black community, I personally believe we are raising daughters with a detrimental “I can do bad by myself” mentality. There’s nothing wrong with becoming a successful woman, however, teaching your daughter that “you don’t need no man,” “you can do it alone,” and “don’t count on a man for nothing” mentalities are completely destructive and unrealistic, IMO. And I believe this contributes greatly to the issues within our communities. I’m not saying to become Mrs. Beaver Cleaver (certainly I’m not), but I think we need to reprogram our daughters to have a healthy dependence on men and a healthy interaction/relationship with men.

 

[Syrah]

I agree with this. And to answer your question below (why we do it). I think that stems from the post-feminist culture we are living in. Clearly there was a need for women to have rights and opportunities. However, the aftermath of the feminist movement has gone far beyond women getting equal rights (which they actually still don’t really have, IMO) to male-bashing and in some cases emasculating a man. I have witnessed too many women disrespecting and defaming their husbands/boyfriends in public, and these were good men (cuz if you aren’t a good man, that’s a whole other ball game). Just as men make general statements about all women, I hear far too many of us doing the same with men. Also, specific to the Black community, I personally believe we are raising daughters with a detrimental “I can do bad by myself” mentality. There’s nothing wrong with becoming a successful woman, however, teaching your daughter that “you don’t need no man,” “you can do it alone,” and “don’t count on a man for nothing” mentalities are completely destructive and unrealistic, IMO. And I believe this contributes greatly to the issues within our communities. I’m not saying to become Mrs. Beaver Cleaver (certainly I’m not), but I think we need to reprogram our daughters to have a healthy dependence on men and a healthy interaction/relationship with men.

I think you and I discussed this before...and I'm with you.

Black women have got "independence" all mixed up. Being a loving, nurturing partner does not make one dependent. Being a supportive soundboard and a cheerleader is not dependent. We're working so hard to be EQUAL that we're starting to act like men and are starting to treat our men like women.

I'm not trying to be a man's equal - cuz last I checked, that simple isn't possible. He's got "equipment" that I don't have and vice versa. And I'm working my butt off to get rid of facial hair, not grow some.

I want to be a man's COMPLIMENT. It's like geometry - two supplementary angles equal 360 degrees. I'm trying to fill in those gaps, and hopefully he's trying to fill in mine...and together we are one heck of a circle...

...and good lookin' too.

 

[Crystalicequeen123]

I agree with this. And to answer your question below (why we do it). I think that stems from the post-feminist culture we are living in. Clearly there was a need for women to have rights and opportunities. However, the aftermath of the feminist movement has gone far beyond women getting equal rights (which they actually still don’t really have, IMO) to male-bashing and in some cases emasculating a man. I have witnessed too many women disrespecting and defaming their husbands/boyfriends in public, and these were good men (cuz if you aren’t a good man, that’s a whole other ball game). Just as men make general statements about all women, I hear far too many of us doing the same with men. Also, specific to the Black community, I personally believe we are raising daughters with a detrimental “I can do bad by myself” mentality. There’s nothing wrong with becoming a successful woman, however, teaching your daughter that “you don’t need no man,” “you can do it alone,” and “don’t count on a man for nothing” mentalities are completely destructive and unrealistic, IMO. And I believe this contributes greatly to the issues within our communities. I’m not saying to become Mrs. Beaver Cleaver (certainly I’m not), but I think we need to reprogram our daughters to have a healthy dependence on men and a healthy interaction/relationship with men.

I completely agree 100%.

If anyone has time, pick up that book by Dr. John Gray, "Men are from Mars, Women are From Venus", or "Mars and Venus On a Date". Those books were total EYE-openers to how men think vs. how women think. Mad me really evaluate my OWN actions and how I treat men in general. Especially the "needing" and "independence" part.