Was our hair meant to be this difficult?

[nomoweavesfome]

stupid question, lol
DO mainland Africans come from the Israelites? I know some people think descendants of slaves do but what about modern day Africans? WHy would they have this hair?

not a stupid question Queen,
Birthed from Noah sons were Shem, Ham, and Japeth - Genesis 5:32 According to geography Sham spread out to Asia, Japheth to Europe and Ham throughout Africa

Here's some reading and I'll leave it at that. Want to know more just pm me and I'll pm you.

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]Greetings in the Name of the Most High! The world should focus on love, but because of hate, this place is corrupt & pitiful. Still, we can make a better change now, by learning about Noah's three sons, where all human beings are traced from biblically. Shem, Cham, and Yepheth were united as brothers, & so can the world be! Let us read from the Bible. [/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]Genesis 10:1[/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]Now these are the generations of the sons of No'ah, Shem, Cham, & Yepheth: and unto them were sons born after the flood.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Arial Black, Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif][FONT=Arial Black, Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif][FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]SONS OF SHEM[/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]Unto Shem also, the father of all the children of Eber, the brother of Yepheth the elder, even to him were children born. The children of Shem; Elam, and Asshur, and Arphaxad, and Lud, and Aram. And the children of Aram; Uz, and Hul, and Gether, and Mash. And Arphaxad begat Salah; and Salah begat Eber. And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided; and his brother's name was Joktan. And Joktan begat Almodad, and Sheleph, and Hazar-maveth, and Jerah, And Hadoram, and Uzal, and Diklah, And Obal, and Abimael, and Sheba, And Ophir, and Havilah, and Jobab: all these were the sons of Joktan. And their dwelling was from Mesha, as thou goest unto Sephar a mount of the east. These are the sons of Sem, after their families, after their tongues, in their lands, after their nations. (21-31)[/FONT]

Shem's children also populated Africa, mainly Northeast Africa, & Asia. His seed even migrated to the Caribbean/Pacific Islands.

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]SONS OF HAM [/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]And the sons of Cham; Cush, and Mizraim, and Phut, and Kaanan. And the sons of Cush; Seba, and Havilah, and Sabtah, and Raamah, and Sabtecha: and the sons of Raamah; Sheba, and Dedan. And Cush begat Nimrod: he began to be a mighty one in the earth. He was a mighty hunter before JAH: wherefore it is said, Even as Nimrod the mighty hunter before YAH. And the beginning of his kingdom was Babel, and Erech, and Accad, and Calneh, in the land of Shinar. Out of that land went forth Asshur, and builded Nineveh, and the city Rehoboth, and Calah, And Resen between Nineveh and Calah: the same is a great city. And Mizraim begat Ludim, and Anamim, and Lehabim, and Naphtuhim, And Pathrusim, and Casluhim, (out of whom came Philistim,) and Caphtorim. And Kaanan begat Sidon his firstborn, and Heth, And the Jebusite, and the Amorite, and the Girgasite, And the Hivite, and the Arkite, and the Sinite, And the Arvadite, and the Zemarite, and the Hamathite: and afterward were the families of the Kaanites spread abroad. And the border of the Kaanites was from Sidon, as thou comest to Gerar, unto Gaza; as thou goest, unto Sodom, and Gomorrah, and Admah, and Zeboim, even unto Lasha. These are the sons of Kam, after their families, after their tongues, in their countries, and in their nations. [/FONT][FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif](6-20) [/FONT]Check this pic of Noah & His Three Sons's dark features. Ham
We even read from Genesis, that Kana'an(Canaan) was cursed by No'ah because Cham saw his nudity. [FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]"And No'ah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard: And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent. And Cham, the father of Kana'an, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without. And Shem and Yepheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness. And No'ah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him. And he said, Cursed be Kana'an; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren. And he said, Blessed be Yahwah of Shem; and Kana'an shall be his servant. Yah shall enlarge Yepheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Kana'an shall be his servant. (Genesis 9: 21-27)[/FONT][FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]
[/FONT]
Cham's seed lived in northeast Africa, but later on migrated to the whole African continent.

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]SONS OF JAPHETH[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]The sons of Yepheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Yavan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tirac. And the sons of Gomer; Ashkanaz, and Riphath, and Togarmah. And the sons of Yavan; Elishah, and Tarshish, Kittim, and Dodanim. By these were the isles of Gowy divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.( 2-5)[/FONT]

Yepheth unlike his family was born an albino(yellowish). But after the Flood, he & his albino seed migrated towards the cold inorder to avoid the sun, since they were albinos. He and his seed then became pale through colder climatic conditions. Europeans are classified as being His children, but not all Japhites were white. There were some who remained in the warmer regions being dark skinned. The Isles of Goyim, (the Mediterranean) also consist of these numerous dark skinned Gentiles. Shemites seperated from Yepheth's seed, & saw them as Gentiles(heathens), only because they didn't follow Yisra'el customs. [FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]"When the most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of 'Ahdawm, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Yisra'el.(Dueteronomy 32: 8) [/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]These are the families of the sons of No'ah, after their generations, in their nations: and by these were the nations divided in the earth after the flood. (Gen 10:31)[/FONT]

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]The Creator did divide the nations into three places, Africa, Asia, & Europe. Before the seven continents, these were the only territories that were populated by the people then. New Jerusalem is where Yisrael and the great multitude will be gathered at in the Kingdom. The Bible show us all of YHWH's Children, Ham, Shem, & Japheth. Black, Brown, & White. Who came from Africa, Asia, & Europe when Noah's sons seperated from each other after the Great Flood. These three families should be unifying now. Racism must end, & we must move in One Love & Harmony! Because we all came from One Abba, YHWH! Acts 17:26 shows us this, "And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation. " What does one blood mean to you? Doesn't that sound like racial unity? It sure does and it is a must! [/FONT]

[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]ANCIENT ISRAEL[/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]We must realise that Yisra'el, can be seen as Black people today, the Bible show us this. Lamentations 4 & 5, reveals an Edenic similarity. Yirmiyah 14, mentions how dark the Tribe of Yahuwdah is. In Songs of Solomon 1, King Shelomoh(Solomon) is described as being Black & comely. Job 30 also says the same thing. Even Simeon in Acts 13, is called Niger. Niger is an African country populated by Black People. Shaul or Paul was described as a Mitsrayim(Egyptian) in Acts 21. There is no doubt that Israel didn't originate from Edenic people. Obviously, Yisra'el came from Shem but some had Hamitic relationships, not just Shem only, they were dark. We can surely say that some of us are from these Israelites of non European ancestry. B[/FONT][FONT=Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif]eing an Israelite is also through the Hebrew Messianic Faith not just culturally alone. [/FONT]


also:
my next post>>>>>

 

[nomoweavesfome]

II THE COMING OF BLACK MEN

The movements of prehistoric man can be seen as yet but dimly in the uncertain mists of time. This is the story that to-day seems most probable: from some center in southern Asia primitive human beings began to differentiate in two directions. Toward the south appeared the primitive Negro, long-headed and with flattened hair follicle. He spread along southern Asia and passed over into Africa, where be survives to-day as the reddish dwarfs of the center and the Bushmen of South Africa.
Northward and eastward primitive man became broader headed and straight-haired and spread over eastern Asia, forming the Mongolian type. Either through the intermingling of these two types or, as some prefer to think, by the direct prolongation of the original primitive man, a third intermediate type of human being appeared with hair and cranial measurement intermediate between the primitive Negro and Mongolian. All these three types of men intermingled their blood freely and developed variations according to climate and environment.
Other and older theories and legends of the origin and spread of mankind are of interest now only because so many human beings have believed them in the past. The biblical story of Shem, Ham, and Japheth retains the interest of a primitive myth with its measure of allegorical truth, 1 but has, of course, no historic basis.

p. 12
The older "Aryan" theory assumed the migration into Europe of one dominant Asiatic race of civilized conquerors, to whose blood and influence all modern culture was due. To this "white" race Semitic Asia, a large part of black Africa, and all Europe was supposed to belong. This "Aryan" theory has been practically abandoned in the light of recent research, and it seems probable now that from the primitive Negroid stock evolved in Asia the Semites either by local variation or intermingling with other stocks; later there developed the Mediterranean race, with Negroid characteristics, and the modern Negroes. The blue-eyed, light-haired Germanic people may have arisen as a modern variation of the mixed peoples produced by the mingling of Asiatic and African elements. The last word on this development has not yet been said, and there is still much to learn and explain; but it is certainly proved to-day beyond doubt that the so-called Hamites of Africa, the brown and black curly and frizzly-haired inhabitants of North and East Africa, are not "white" men if we draw the line between white and black in any logical way.
The primitive Negroid race of men developed in Asia wandered eastward as well as westward. They entered on the one hand Burmah and the South Sea Islands, and on the other hand they came through Mesopotamia and gave curly hair and a Negroid type to Jew, Syrian, and Assyrian. Ancient statues of Indian divinities show the Negro type with black face and close-curled hair, and early Babylonian culture was Negroid. In Arabia the Negroes may have divided, and one stream perhaps wandered into Europe by way of Syria. Traces of these Negroes are manifest not only in skeletons, but in the brunette type of all South Europe. The other branch proceeded to Egypt and tropical Africa. Another, but perhaps less probable, theory is that ancient Negroes may have entered Africa from Europe, since the most ancient skulls of Algeria are Negroid.
The primitive African was not an extreme type. One may judge from modern pygmy and Bushmen that his color was reddish or yellow, and his skull was sometimes round like the Mongolian. He entered Africa not less than fifty thousand years ago and settled eventually in the broad region between Lake Chad and the Great Lakes and remained there long stretches of years.
After a lapse of perhaps thirty thousand years there entered Africa a further migration of Asiatic people, Negroid in many characteristics, but lighter and straighter haired than the primitive Negroes. From this Mediterranean race was developed the modern inhabitants
p. 13
of the shores of the Mediterranean in Europe, Asia, and Africa and, by mingling with the primitive Negroes, the ancient Egyptians and modern Negroid races of Africa.
As we near historic times the migrations of men became more frequent from Asia and from Europe, and in Africa came movements and minglings which give to the whole of Africa a distinct mulatto character. The primitive Negro stock was "mulatto" in the sense of being not widely differentiated from the dark, original Australoid stock. As the earlier yellow Negro developed in the African tropics to the bigger, blacker type, be was continually mingling his blood with similar types developed in temperate climes to sallower color and straighter hair.
We find therefore, in Africa to-day, every degree of development in Negroid stocks and every degree of intermingling of these developments, both among African peoples and between Africans, Europeans, and Asiatics. The mistake is continually made of considering these types as transitions between absolute Caucasians and absolute Negroes. No such absolute type ever existed on either side. Both were slowly differentiated from a common ancestry and continually remingled their blood while the differentiating was progressing. From prehistoric times down to to-day Africa is, in this sense, primarily the land of the mulatto. So, too, was earlier Europe and Asia; only in these countries the mulatto was early bleached by the climate, while in Africa he was darkened.
It is not easy to summarize the history of these dark African peoples, because so little is known and so much is still in dispute. Yet, by avoiding the real controversies and being unafraid of mere questions of definition, we may trace a great human movement with considerable definiteness.
Three main Negro types early made their appearance: the lighter and smaller primitive stock; the larger forest Negro in the center and on the west coast, and the tall, black Nilotic Negro in the eastern Sudan. In the earliest times we find the Negroes in the valley of the Nile, pressing downward from the interior, Here they mingled with Semitic types, and after a lapse of millenniums there arose from this mingling the culture of Ethiopia and Egypt, probably the first of higher human cultures.
To the west of the Nile the Negroes expanded straight across the continent to the Atlantic. Centers of higher culture appeared very early along the Gulf of Guinea and curling backward met Egyptian,
p. 14
[SIZE=-2][paragraph continues][/SIZE] Ethiopian, and even European and Asiatic influences about Lake Chad. To the southeast, nearer the primitive seats of the earliest African immigrants and open to Egyptian and East Indian influences, the Negro culture which culminated at Zymbabwe arose, and one may trace throughout South Africa its wide ramifications.
All these movements gradually aroused the central tribes to unrest. They beat against the barriers north, northeast, and west, but gradually settled into a great southeastward migration. Calling themselves proudly La Bantu (The People), they grew by agglomeration into a warlike nation, speaking one language. They eventually conquered all Africa south of the Gulf of Guinea and spread their influence to the northward.
While these great movements were slowly transforming Africa, she was also receiving influences from beyond her shores and sending influences out. With mulatto Egypt black Africa was always in closest touch, so much so that to some all evidence of Negro uplift seem Egyptian in origin. The truth is, rather, that Egypt was herself always palpably Negroid, and from her vantage ground as almost the only African gateway received and transmitted Negro ideals.
Phœnician, Greek, and Roman came into touch more or less with black Africa. Carthage, that North African city of a million men, had a large caravan trade with Negroland in ivory, metals, cloth, precious stones, and slaves. Black men served in the Carthaginian armies and marched with Hannibal on Rome. In some of the North African kingdoms the infiltration of Negro blood was very large and kings like Massinissa and Jugurtha were Negroid. By way of the Atlantic the Carthaginians reached the African west coast. Greek and Roman influences came through the desert, and the Byzantine Empire and Persia came into communication with Negroland by way of the valley of the Nile. The influence of these trade routes, added to those of Egypt, Ethiopia, Benin, and Yoruba, stimulated centers of culture in the central and western Sudan, and European and African trade early reached large volume.
Negro soldiers were used largely in the armies that enabled the Mohammedans to conquer North Africa and Spain.

There's more but I couldn't post it all

 

[Bublnbrnsuga]

Texture has not been the only thing that has been a problem for little girls. Sometimes, it's the mere skin color. Yes, there have been people of other races who have made black women feel uncomfortable about their hair texture, however, these same people mostly focused on the blackness. The hair texture was just a by-product When slavemasters and Klan lynched black women the last thing on their minds was the hair on their head; it was first and foremost the color of their skin. When we were discriminated against it was because of the color of our skin, anything that came after that (such as negative comments toward hair, noses, etc.) just came with the territory. However, you can dislike the texture and be removed from the race because even though many of us have the kinky texture, several others in our race do not have this and there are a few others in other races that have kinky hair.

If you argue for hair texture, you could also argue for other features that white people may have hated because they thought they symbolized blackness: big lips and big noses for instance (which we were made fun of for having but we all know we are not the only ones who have this even if others tried to make it seem different). If you dislike kinky hair because you are black, then that's an issue. However, if you dislike kinky hair for a variety of other reasons totally removed from the race, then that's your choice.

Also, the point remains that white girls straighten the mess out of their hair or perm the mess out of it to be curly without the same type of backlash that a black person gets for say straightening her hair for whatever reason. I knew of several little white girls also at a very YOUNG age who got their hair permed growing up because it was what was popular.

First of all the topic that we are discussing is HAIR and if kinky hair is considered a curse. Not broad noses, lips, skin color,etc... we can save those features for other discussions.

Secondly, I could care LESS about what white folk are doing to their hair. Our history is not the same as there's so why even compare if they are receiving backlash for doing xyz? Why do we look at them as our measuring stick for nearly EVERYTHANG?

Let's be real, our hair is one of the CENTRAL FOCUS's OF OUR ESTEEM! We can't do a daggone thing about our skin color, but we can continually straighten every kink as much as possible out of our hair to TRY to feel more beautiful and accepted in society and I say try because every month, you are reminded that your hair is not naturally straightened but naturally curly,kinky, nappy, wavy, whatever.

 

[nomoweavesfome]

***please be advised there was no intention of hijacking this thread at all. ***It is a very interesting thread and many times in my past I wondered the same thing. But my eyes have been opened through scriptures many things in life. Although it actually says in the bible according to Isaiah 3: 16-26 about the Lord smiting a scab on the head and bringing about baldness instead of well set hair, as a curse to those women who were being conceited and haughty, that curse did not apply to everyone.

Also it also mentions in the scriptures about if a woman has long hair it is her glory I Corinthians 11:15

All in all, I believe that God has blessed us all with beautiful hair. I do not see in any way just because our hair is not straight like the other races that we are any less beautiful or our hair is any less pretty. It's just different, and to think that God made a mistake is absurd. We are the ones (man) that bring about our own demise.

Someone made a comment if a white woman was to stand in the mirror everyday to make her straight hair like an afro , she would surely be frustrated with damaged hair now wouldn't she?? lol

Anyaways- Great Topic!

 

[CurleeDST]

FYI there are people from several other races who "grease" their scalp and oil just like many of us do. Funny, when I lived in the dorms the ladies would make fun of me b/c I didn't put grease and oil in my hair. They thought my hair would fall out when it was really fluffy, healthy and full of body while theirs were bogged down with grease, dandruff and stiffness.

 

[navsegda]

First of all the topic that we are discussing is HAIR and if kinky hair is considered a curse. Not broad noses, lips, skin color,etc... we can save those features for other discussions.

Secondly, I could care LESS about what white folk are doing to their hair. Our history is not the same as there's so why even compare if they are receiving backlash for doing xyz? Why do we look at them as our measuring stick for nearly EVERYTHANG?

Let's be real, our hair is one of the CENTRAL FOCUS's OF OUR ESTEEM! We can't do a daggone thing about our skin color, but we can continually straighten every kink as much as possible out of our hair to TRY to feel more beautiful and accepted in society and I say try because every month, you are reminded that your hair is not naturally straightened but naturally curly,kinky, nappy, wavy, whatever.

I know the topic we are discussing is hair. However, I am trying to show that this is a double standard, which is WHY I brought up lips, noses, and other things. Kinky hair is NOT the only distinguishing thing about black people and in several cases it may not even be the MOST distinguishing thing about us considering how many do not have the kinky, coiled hair but are still very much black. We truly are NOT our hair. If you're going to harp on kinky hair as being an issue of self esteem then harp on other things that may be an issue of self esteem just as equally for black girls.

We don't have to look at whites as a measuring stick so to speak. I was making it a point because whites ARE linked to how some people in our race may or may not feel about our hair. If race is the issue for some black people not accepting their kinky hair, then why is that? Who were the FIRST people that scrutinized kinky hair? Was it us? NO it was not. It was the white people who mainly set up beauty standards which is why they are so integral to this discussion. If there are black people out there who hate their kinky hair or hate others' kinky hair and it all ties back to societal norms and beauty standards then it is the WHITE people who first put those norms and standards in place and thus the WHITE people would be the underlying cause of black people having any type of self esteem issues with their hair if this (beauty standards and not other reasons for disliking kinky hair) is what you are arguing. However, even though this may be so, you can still divorce not liking the kinky hair from race. The person beside you may not but YOU can.

Also, you cannot assume that we all straighten or relax our kinky hair for the same reason. For some people they may in fact be trying to be more beautiful or accepted in society but for others this very well may NOT be the case. I know for a fact that I do it for me and me alone, and I COULDN'T care less if the standards were switched overnight and everyone thought straight hair was ugly tomorrow.

 

[CaramelMiSS]

***please be advised there was no intention of hijacking this thread at all. ***It is a very interesting thread and many times in my past I wondered the same thing. But my eyes have been opened through scriptures many things in life. Although it actually says in the bible according to Isaiah 3: 16-26 about the Lord smiting a scab on the head and bringing about baldness instead of well set hair, as a curse to those women who were being conceited and haughty, that curse did not apply to everyone.

Also it also mentions in the scriptures about if a woman has long hair it is her glory I Corinthians 11:15

All in all, I believe that God has blessed us all with beautiful hair. I do not see in any way just because our hair is not straight like the other races that we are any less beautiful or our hair is any less pretty. It's just different, and to think that God made a mistake is absurd. We are the ones (man) that bring about our own demise.

Someone made a comment if a white woman was to stand in the mirror everyday to make her straight hair like an afro , she would surely be frustrated with damaged hair now wouldn't she?? lol

Anyaways- Great Topic!

Just to add to nomoweavesfome read deut. chapter 28. It talks about the Israelites and if they do not listen to God that he will have them have iron yokes around their necks and have them taken away by people from the edge of the world and that they would not se their sons or daughters. Anyway just read that chapter it will have you think different about black people and why we are in the mess we are in today.

 

[CaramelMiSS]

CaramelMiss: What are your thoughts now that they (the "Science" people...no...not the "fruit scientists! "lolol....are proving that blacks get skin cancer and are more readily damaged than whites and are encouraging blacks to lather up with the sunscreen?
In the hottest countries, have you noticed that often they wear a lot of clothing....men and women, and keep their heads covered to stay cool? Even in the desert. The Arabs do not have a problem with long hair in the hottest driest areas, why would we? We could braid it up and tie it up just like the Rastas do or the Arabs. You think? Where would the moisture come from? body heat. Just like the bros in the States with their wool head coverings in the hot weather and them bros can grow some hair!!! JMO.
Meant to add: Africa was a rainforest!!!! It was not one big desert wasteland...With some of the most lush vegetation possible! The wastelands that we see now are partially due to land erosion by mining, and raping of the land by European pillagers that has created drought and famine. As far as the water theory, I will get back to you. Thanks for commenting, it really keeps me on my toes! bless ya! bonjour

Dark skin protects against those skin cancers that are caused by mutations in skin cells induced by ultraviolet light. Light-skinned persons have about a tenfold greater risk of dying from skin cancer under equal sun conditions. Furthermore, dark skin prevents UV-A radiation from destroying the essential B vitamin folate. Folate is needed for the synthesis of DNA in dividing cells and too low levels of folate in pregnant women are associated with birth defects.

This is from wikipedia while I know that wikipedia is not that much of a creditable source I know that blacks have melanin for a reason.

 

[patient1]

What will you tell your daughters? Your granddaughters?

How will you describe their hair to them? What words will you use?

What expression will you wear on your face on the subject of their tresses?

Whose vision will you pass on? Through whose eyes will you see what comes out of your womb? Your daughter's womb?

So, what will you tell your daughters....

p1

 

[growthbyforce]

I do not believe that black women relax their hair because they want to be white.....well at least i sure as hell dont. I relax my hair because it is more manageable that way.

 

[Country gal]

What will you tell your daughters? Your granddaughters?

How will you describe their hair to them? What words will you use?

What expression will you wear on your face on the subject of their tresses?

Whose vision will you pass on? Through whose eyes will you see what comes out of your womb? Your daughter's womb?

So, what will you tell your daughters....

p1

Great questions. My little cousin cut her sister's hair because she had beady bees. It is obvious her mother expressed beady bees as being negative.

 

[patient1]

Just to add to nomoweavesfome read deut. chapter 28. It talks about the Israelites and if they do not listen to God that he will have them have iron yokes around their necks and have them taken away by people from the edge of the world and that they would not se their sons or daughters. Anyway just read that chapter it will have you think different about black people and why we are in the mess we are in today.

I'm sure you weren't implying this, but I will add anyway that "slavery" is not peculiar to "black people". What took place in America is it's most well-known incarnation. It had a looooooong history before Africans were enslaved on North American shores.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery

There are better sources than this, but any cursory research will shed light....

p1

 

[Blu217]

I personally have wondered the same thing as the OP. Healthy hair is all good--but I'm fighting a battle to save my hair right now because I've started losing hair at the crown due to alopecia--it was suggested relaxers caused it. And now my regular hair practices, once "fun," are no longer so practical. And it is no fun for me to think about losing my length to transition to natural, which I don't care to be, to try to figure out whether or not to continue to use chemicals in some capacity. I dread dealing with my hair now and wish I didn't have to relax or use heat to enjoy my favorite styles.

My own black hair IS difficult for me to deal with in its natural state. I do envy my friend's (also black) gorgeous, shiny natural curls, because if mine grew like that I could go natural so easily. I think natural hair is absolutely beautiful--on other people who clearly love their native texture and know exactly how to rock it with style. That just ain't me. And I say there's nothing wrong with just wanting to be able to run a comb thru your hair without needing an ORS relaxer or S-Curl and 30 minutes of super-careful detangling to do so.

I suppose within a few eons the constant evolution of man would gradually naturally relax the curl pattern of Black American hair, since we don't need it on this continent--provided everyone's not all intermingled by then anyway.

 

[Nightingale]

My hair journey has been about simplification. At first I did the grease, and daily flat ironing. Now I have found a simpler regimen, I might have some hard to find products (butters), but everything else is cheap. I own a satin pillowcase, but I don't always use it. My hair has grown stronger, thicker, and will gain length soon, with the simple things, the things I like to do. I like rinsing my hair often, I like not having to make sure my hair is bone straight or bumped under before heading out of the door, I like my curly bun and puff. My hair is easier for me to care for, less maintenance, and thriving.

 

[patient1]

Great questions. My little cousin cut her sister's hair because she had beady bees. It is obvious her mother expressed beady bees as being negative.

And thus, the seed is REplanted...

I'll tell you this, my daughters have three different textures of hair and they accept and/or love their hair. I do what I can to foster this.

However, if they come home one day in their adulthood with straight hair, I will not deny them an embrace.

They are my daughters and I will KNOW for fact that it is about change. It would be as if my daughters came home with hair that is blue, shaved on one side, her initials scrawled in, etc.

No matter what we decide to do with our hair, I really, truly believe we have a duty not to pass on these negative ideas about anything that is natural to our children. What on earth is to be gained?

I am so abundantly blessed that I had a mother who did NOT do this to us. These mothers are out there. Mothers who tell us that we are born whole and beautiful. Can they protect us from folks who say we are in need of fixin'? Ugly? Flawed?

No. Mothers can not be with us every moment of the day. But they plant seeds and life is a whole lot easier when you know there's at least one person out there who believes that you are just fine...that the Creator made no mistakes when fashioning you...that those others don't know any better...and that you're just plain old worthy.

I don't have too much to add and haven't read the whole thing. I've been natural a long time and my babies were born into my being firmly grounded in this.

Some of the comments here just make me shake my head because I have to send my daughters out into this world and I can't even count on my own sistren to water the seeds I plant.

p1

 

[Mahalialee4]

I agree that this information was hitherto published: But now they are changing their tune. Before it was assumed that blacks were safer from skin cancer than white people. Now they are saying that is no longer considered to be the case, more melanin or not. I was watching a news program about three weeks ago on this, and they were urging black people to slather on the sun tan lotion and wear sun protective clothinng. Apparently they have been seeing a significan rise in the incidents of the same types of skin cancers occurring in black people. I also agree with you that the melanin is there for a reason. Sounds like we are all breaking down, eh? bonjour

Dark skin protects against those skin cancers that are caused by mutations in skin cells induced by ultraviolet light. Light-skinned persons have about a tenfold greater risk of dying from skin cancer under equal sun conditions. Furthermore, dark skin prevents UV-A radiation from destroying the essential B vitamin folate. Folate is needed for the synthesis of DNA in dividing cells and too low levels of folate in pregnant women are associated with birth defects.

This is from wikipedia while I know that wikipedia is not that much of a creditable source I know that blacks have melanin for a reason.

 

[CaramelMiSS]

I'm sure you weren't implying this, but I will add anyway that "slavery" is not peculiar to "black people". What took place in America is it's most well-known incarnation. It had a looooooong history before Africans were enslaved on North American shores.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery

There are better sources than this, but any cursory research will shed light....

p1

I am aware of this

 

[patient1]

I am aware of this

Thus my intro into what I posted, frankly, for everyone...not just you. There are other people here on this board...young ones etc. So often when one says "slave" a Black face will be brought to mind. And I know for fact that youth get tired of that being propped up as the bulk of their history and culture.

I'd hate for someone to associate the punishment exclusively with Blacks and our "mess". This is especially important for some of the younger more impressionable ones.

So, since you are aware but didn't make mention of it, I did. Nothing personal.

p1

 

[january noir]

I've been reading through this thread and it has been eye-opening and the opinions expressed have been thought provoking.

My response echoes others in that "our" hair was NOT meant to be difficult. It becomes difficult when "we" can't love what we are given and care for it with love. When you try to "whip" your hair into submission without "love" it will always be difficult. Hair, like anything in our lives, people, animals, etc. responds to love, not distaste and contempt. Your hair might not reach to your knees, but it's staying on your head and for that we should at least be grateful!

I would love to have "naturally" thick flowing locks, but that's not what God gave me. He gave me thin, fine hair. I had to learn to love my "own" and treat it with loving care. I get just as many compliments about my hair when it is clean and shiny as those with lots of hair. I had "coveted" other types of hair in my younger days, but now that I am in my forties I know that my hair makes me, ME and my hair is not difficult.

 

[Blu217]

Some of the comments here just make me shake my head because I have to send my daughters out into this world and I can't even count on my own sistren to water the seeds I plant.

p1

Hey P1 -

I get where you're coming from and your post got me thinking. I think that for many of us, natural hair is not a virtue so much as a preference--like high heels vs flats. For some it's a religious or cultural statement, but it seems hair is fashion for a lot of us, really. I'm in the boat with those who feel relaxed hair is about manageability.

It's all what we each get used to, I think--but to me at least both relaxers and natural hair are part and parcel of the black female hair and beauty experience; we've all considered which path is right for us and the average white person will never understand what these issues are about. Neither relaxed hair nor natural hair seems to me in any way more or less an embrace of blackness. So when I think back to my own childhood and what my hair influences were, the experience was still expressly a distinctly black female one. I never felt I was conforming to a white ideal.

 

[Mahalialee4]

ok I'm just gonna say this:

yes our hair is difficult (mostly b/c we can't/don't want to wear it as is, we try to mimic techniques of other groups of people who have a completely different hair type. Whatver that's your choice and no one has to live with it but you so everyone has to do what they want.

BUT: OUR HAIR IS NOT A CURSE. repeat, OUR HAIR IS NOT A CURSE. We are not cursed by God, he loves us. (We were not cursed by some white scientists somewhere.) We were not cursed by nature. It is what it is, some genotypes are expressed as by-products of evolution (or God) or no reason at all. There are really no use for male nipples in modern ages, yet men still have them. It is what it is.

OUR HAIR IS NOT A CURSE. love ya'll!

When the white scientists persuaded and by means of WORDS AND RESULTANT MEASUREMENTS AND LAWS empowered and rationally deceived, seduced and enabled nations (leaders and citizens) of white people who obviously had their own selfish ambition to enslave, murder and torture and psychologically perform genocide on black people and use not only the "skin color" but the hair "texture" of black people (the pencil test) as a measuring rod to decide who could be sold down any river, I would not call this a blessing. It was a curse!!!...what is the meaning of curse?....to use the words of one's mouth to speak life or death into someone's life.....to call down evil and misfortune....every curse comes from the mouth in any language. In many ways "evil has been called down on OUR HEADS, our crowns, our God given birth right as a human! And as a result of these "scientific findings" specific genetic breeding was carried out and certain "breeding" practices were FORBIDDEN BY WRITTEN LAW. (WORDS) TODAY THIS PRACTICE IS CONSIDERED A VIOLATION OF HUMAN AND CIVIL RIGHTS AND CALLED A HATE CRIME PUNISHABLE BY LAW!

I agree that our hair in itself is not a natural curse, but so called science did play a large part in how our hair was viewed, and the fear other nationalities had of getting our kind of hair, and black people for many generations were deceived , saw our hair as a natural curse because of accepting the scientific lies AND PERPETUATED THIS CURSE UPON THEIR OWN HEADS BY repeating these same lies to themselves and to their children! We do need to stop this behaviour...the scriptures do tell us "you will have what you SAY!
But as I have said repeatedly when we understand the wicked motives behind the scientists actions we can break free from the lies that ANY in the world would try to hold over our heads about our hair.
My basis for stating this is contained here although I realize not everyone respects or accepts what the Bible says but for those who do, this is where I was coming from regarding man made curses:

Galations 5: 20, speaks as "witchcraft" as one of the work of the flesh, in other words, something carried out by man....that is another reason why I said the scientists because of "selfish ambition" and the nations because of "selfish ambition" executed a curse against black people. It was not the wisdom from above but was "earthly, unspiritual and of the Devil...and the reason for fomenting this "evil practice" (James 3:13-17) How was it done, "BY THE POINTING OF THE FINGER AND THE UTTERANCE OF SPECIFIC MALEDICTIONS to refer to a few..."nappyheaded dirty .......!" ugly dread savages with unkempt hair".. beasts, animals....not at all like humans....look at their hair!!!!!...not the hair of humans!" and CERTAIN OF the religious leaders of their people interjected with "the Curse of Cain....meant to be a slave nonsense!" but were curses levelled ONLY AT the black man. hope this helps someone bonjour

 

[Jaizee]

Hey P1 -

I get where you're coming from and your post got me thinking. I think that for many of us, natural hair is not a virtue so much as a preference--like high heels vs flats. For some it's a religious or cultural statement, but it seems hair is fashion for a lot of us, really. I'm in the boat with those who feel relaxed hair is about manageability.

It's all what we each get used to, I think--but to me at least both relaxers and natural hair are part and parcel of the black female hair and beauty experience; we've all considered which path is right for us and the average white person will never understand what these issues are about. Neither relaxed hair nor natural hair seems to me in any way more or less an embrace of blackness. So when I think back to my own childhood and what my hair influences were, the experience was still expressly a distinctly black female one. I never felt I was conforming to a white ideal.

I have to disagree with this to an extent. I've read countless times on this forum and other hair forums where someone is told that relaxers are messing up their scalp, but they continue to relax. I honestly don't know if it was you or someone else in this thread who said that they had scalp problems from relaxers, so this most likely doesn't apply to you. IMO, if someone continues to relax their hair after they've been told that it's dangerous for them to do so, is it really just a styling option?

 

[honeycomb719]

Imagine how difficult it would be for a white woman to achieve a perfect 4b afro every morning She would have difficult hair for sure! And destroyed by chemicals and heat appliances!!!

Im LOVIN this analogy Makes all the sense in the world.

 

[Jaizee]

What will you tell your daughters? Your granddaughters?

How will you describe their hair to them? What words will you use?

What expression will you wear on your face on the subject of their tresses?

Whose vision will you pass on? Through whose eyes will you see what comes out of your womb? Your daughter's womb?

So, what will you tell your daughters....

p1

I REALLY love these questions. I know that when/if I have daughters, I'll make sure that they know that their natural hair is beautiful. I'll lead by example.

 

[asha]

Just to add to nomoweavesfome read deut. chapter 28. It talks about the Israelites and if they do not listen to God that he will have them have iron yokes around their necks and have them taken away by people from the edge of the world and that they would not se their sons or daughters. Anyway just read that chapter it will have you think different about black people and why we are in the mess we are in today.

Wow, I read this chapter and it made me actually cry. I really hope you are not saying that the passage is directed at black people. If it is then I guess everything about us is cursed and we might as well sit back and wait to be destroyed because that is our fate anyways.

If those passages are true...(the one supposedly about black women posted earlier and the one above) then how can any black person find solace in the words of scripture?

 

[navsegda]

IMO, if someone continues to relax their hair after they've been told that it's dangerous for them to do so, is it really just a styling option?

It could be. Maybe even if they know that it's dangerous for their scalp, they cannot let go of the ease with which they are accustomed to handling their hair. Maybe they will convince themselves "Oh, I can still relax but maybe this time I just won't get scalp burns and I know my hair won't fall out." Thus, it may be more of a comfort zone; they'd rather risk scalp damage and be able to easily manage their hair than give up the relaxers and feel they cannot manage their natural hair as easily. I mean, think about all the things people do that may not be safe for them but they continue to do because they don't want to let go of the ease and comfort that comes with them. This may seem like a really gross example but I think back to when I was in high school and this girl pulled out her tampon and threw it against the bathroom wall (a white girl) and was like "God, this thing has been inside me for 11 hours." I stood there with my mouth open, trying to understand what had just happened. Now she kept that tampon in longer than the recommended hours just because it was easier for her not to have to worry about putting in the effort (although small in my opinion) to change it, but you know you run more of a risk of toxic shock syndrome by leaving it in longer.

 

[patient1]

Hey P1 -

I get where you're coming from and your post got me thinking. I think that for many of us, natural hair is not a virtue so much as a preference--like high heels vs flats. For some it's a religious or cultural statement, but it seems hair is fashion for a lot of us, really. I'm in the boat with those who feel relaxed hair is about manageability.

It's all what we each get used to, I think--but to me at least both relaxers and natural hair are part and parcel of the black female hair and beauty experience; we've all considered which path is right for us and the average white person will never understand what these issues are about. Neither relaxed hair nor natural hair seems to me in any way more or less an embrace of blackness. So when I think back to my own childhood and what my hair influences were, the experience was still expressly a distinctly black female one. I never felt I was conforming to a white ideal.

That's actually not what I'm saying at all. I don't buy into a lot of the mass explanations of why we do whatever we do to our hair and what we do etc. I've learned not to make assumptions based on how someone stands before me. This encompasses race, gender, hair styles, etc. Trust me,there are lots of folks who wear natural hair and hate it, hate themselves, whatever you want to project onto them.

We're individuals. Our reasons behind our choices are as varied as we are. Furthermore, if you live a bit your hair goes through constant reincarnations. I've had relaxers, a shaved head, braids, fros, twists, even went through a locing phase. If I were to relax my hair tomorrow, after almost 16 years of natural hair, am I suddenly transformed overnight. Is the converse true? Of course not. So assumptions about the deeper layers of self based on hair are just over and done for me. However...

When I come face to face with someone else's child, I don't project any of my hair issues and politics onto them. I see children as a new beginning. So if the mother is already straightening the child's hair I DON'T disparage that. And if the child's hair is in a natural style and they are stand alones, I'd be sure to affirm their beauty.

I don't care about all this science and history and what not behind how our hair got to be how it is and where it's gonna go and what texture it's going to be generations from now.

I like to deal with the here and now.

And the fact of the matter is, I'm going to have to send my children out into the world with folks, black folks, Black women who DON'T think their natural texture is good enough, a reflection of God's perfection and wisdom....and some who don't care enough about changing things to even pretend.

There's not a sister here who can say I've ever come down on another's hair choice. Not here, not in real-life, not on nappturality (where I'm moonchild). I don't do it.

But let's give our daughters coming up a chance for it to actually be a damn CHOICE. It doesn't matter how it got to be this way, it is what it is. Let's just deal with it. And whether your hair is relaxed or natural....4b or 1c whatever...I think we can all intuit and agree that we could take a load off of them if we'd start affirming the beauty of what they sprout naturally.

All I can do is what I do. Others have to do what's authentic to them. I can't change anyone and I'm gonna keep on being at least one face of acceptance. I'm just praying that some of folks can learn to look a little closer, smile maybe, and see beauty in it all.

p1

 

[LocksOfLuV]

I have to disagree with this to an extent. I've read countless times on this forum and other hair forums where someone is told that relaxers are messing up their scalp, but they continue to relax. I honestly don't know if it was you or someone else in this thread who said that they had scalp problems from relaxers, so this most likely doesn't apply to you. IMO, if someone continues to relax their hair after they've been told that it's dangerous for them to do so, is it really just a styling option?

I told myself I was going to stay out of this thread, but what they hey, what's one more round.

You can't simply imply ANY reason why ever last woman on the face of this planet relaxes. You can't. No matter what you think and whether you agree with it or not, everyone has their own reasoning behind it. That would be as silly as to saying that everyone who goes natural only did it because of damage- I don't know all naturals so I can't say that, plus I can think of one my Girlz off the top of my head who had gorgeous healthy relaxed hair who went natural.

To be quite honest with you, eating foods are now a danger because of the level of pesticides/preservatives, breathing air is because of air pollutants, walking because of the risk of getting hit/shot/raped/stabbed/etc, flying because of terrorist attacks, drive because of collisions, I could go on and on and on and on, but you get the point.

Just in case you don't, My point is EVERY SINGLE THING YOU DO nowadays in life is a risk. Why live your life with caution in every single thing you do because of non-direct links to diseases? Why should I subject myself to hours of endless detangling (if ya don't believe me you try coming over here and detangling my natural hair) for the risk of some disease (we don't have sufficient research about) when I can walk outside tomorrow and get hit by a bus? Life is too short for all the stressing and such, forreal.

It's not as deep as people want to believe for all people. It really ain't.
Some people seem to think by being natural it makes you one step closer to GOD and/or more 'Black' than another, it's really not that deep. HAIR is only one thing out of a millions things to worry about. As someone else said on this forum, life is too hard to be worrying and stressing over hair and what other people choose to do with their hair.

 

[Bublnbrnsuga]

I know the topic we are discussing is hair. However, I am trying to show that this is a double standard, which is WHY I brought up lips, noses, and other things. Kinky hair is NOT the only distinguishing thing about black people and in several cases it may not even be the MOST distinguishing thing about us considering how many do not have the kinky, coiled hair but are still very much black. We truly are NOT our hair. If you're going to harp on kinky hair as being an issue of self esteem then harp on other things that may be an issue of self esteem just as equally for black girls.

We don't have to look at whites as a measuring stick so to speak. I was making it a point because whites ARE linked to how some people in our race may or may not feel about our hair. If race is the issue for some black people not accepting their kinky hair, then why is that? Who were the FIRST people that scrutinized kinky hair? Was it us? NO it was not. It was the white people who mainly set up beauty standards which is why they are so integral to this discussion. If there are black people out there who hate their kinky hair or hate others' kinky hair and it all ties back to societal norms and beauty standards then it is the WHITE people who first put those norms and standards in place and thus the WHITE people would be the underlying cause of black people having any type of self esteem issues with their hair if this (beauty standards and not other reasons for disliking kinky hair) is what you are arguing. However, even though this may be so, you can still divorce not liking the kinky hair from race. The person beside you may not but YOU can.

Also, you cannot assume that we all straighten or relax our kinky hair for the same reason. For some people they may in fact be trying to be more beautiful or accepted in society but for others this very well may NOT be the case. I know for a fact that I do it for me and me alone, and I COULDN'T care less if the standards were switched overnight and everyone thought straight hair was ugly tomorrow.

Since YT put in our heads in the beginning, that you're black and ugly with that old crazy hair, why are we, having advanced in this society still struggling with this issue? Why, because in several instances we as black people have BOUGHT INTO THOSE LIES and have decided that hey, something IS wrong with us. WE are the ones keeping this junk up. NO need for YT to do it anymore, since we are doing it to ourselves.

By you bringing up those other issues that we as black people face is more of a justification to CONTINUE to envy other hair textures, since, hey, some black folk don't like their color, noses, lips, hips, butt, so what's the big deal about disliking my texture,too?

I didn't say that black women texturize/straighten their hair for the same reason, (I was one who relaxed because I wanted other styles that I couldn't obtain through my natural hair) ,but once again, let's keep it real- majority do out of dislike of their texture. Can't STAND to see a crinkle in their fresh do.


With this said, I see that I will keep repeating myself so I remove myself from this discussion.

 

[Mahalialee4]

Asha: Do not be destroyed. That was not the final word. It also talked about restoration if you keep reading. I am not saying that this refers to black people, I am just saying that even if it did, READ THE WHOLE STORY AND THEN YOU CAN BE ENCOURAGED bonjour