Was our hair meant to be this difficult?

[hotshot]

Many of the replies to this thread make me sick at heart. I can't believe what I'm reading.

Let me just make one thing absolutely clear: THERE IS NOTHING INNATELY GOOD ABOUT LONG HAIR. Hair, like every other part of the body, evolved for a function and evolved into its current form because of the function it served - in the environment it served it in. That is all.

To hear some of you speak, one would think you had never seen a beautiful woman with short hair. Halle Berry anyone? Marilyn Munroe?? - with her long hair she was just another pretty girl - she cut it off into a curly little blonde bob and became a bombshell.

Is our hair really that bad? I sure as heck have never thought so. As a matter of fact, many times I look around me (e.g. surrounded by whites, Indians and Pakistanis on the train) and I am bored of seeing lank, limp, greasy, straight, heavy hair. Why should we all have hair like that? It would be dang boring. When I look around me in situations like that, usually I'm thinking, "Wouldn't it be great to see some fluffy heads of gravity defying, upward growing, textured hair in this place?"

Can you imagine it - if many many black women were to wear their hair in big *** afros (maybe with a flower to the side - like the Fijians do), high puffs, low puffs, twists, dreads, cornrows in intricate designs. Don't you think that would be a great spectacle? We would have them staring at us in awe. There is strength in numbers - so when all you see around you is hair that looks one way, you start to wonder what's wrong with yours why it doesn't look like that. The answer is: nothing is wrong with yours - it is what it is and it is beautiful.

I'm not saying that natural is the only way to go (I have relaxed hair myself). I'm just saying that seeing our hair all around us styled attractively in the way it naturally grows would be a positive thing for many many women with unnecessary inferiority complexes. So the next time you're surrounded by people of other races - pls try to imagine the image I painted above.

Again: THERE IS NOTHING INNATELY GOOD ABOUT LONG HAIR. It is not necessary for your health, your happiness, or your beauty. It's just something we have *chosen* to pursue - for whatever reason. So don't take it up like the Cross of Calvary and use it to beat yourself - this should be fun. Or else, don't do it at all, and just let your hair be. A few months ago, I wanted, and had, big natural hair. Now I want long relaxed hair and I'm working at it. But there was a time in my life when I kept my hair no more than a few millimetres long and would take a pair of scissors to it every month - sometimes every other day. It suited my personality, features and figure quite well, and I am very likely to go back to that cut in a decade or so.

I'm a shocked at those who are trying to attach some kind of essential goodness or rightness to long hair by quoting scripture and what not. Every time I read that quote about "A woman's hair should be a coverning and a glory to her" in this context, I don't know if I should laugh or cry. Come on. Which would you really guess is true?:
Option 1: God really is really concerned that women should have long hair.
Option 2: Maybe Israelite chicks at that time were getting their hair cut short and the men didn't like it, so they decided to tell them what "God liked".
Option 3: Those men were just affirming and reinforcing a prevailing cultural or aesthetic preference at that time and place for long hair on women. (and remember that at other times and places, long hair on men has also been the ideal).

Now, given my experience of the world and plain common sense, I would think that options 2 and 3 are most likely. God (if he exists) has better things to think about than to go around prescribing long hair.

And let's be real - the closer you are to pure sub-Saharan African, the harder it usually is to grow your hair extra long. Everyone who talks about "women in my family who grow their hair without effort" knows well and good that they have a little something something mixed up in their family. Yes, most of us Blacks in the West are mixed to some extent, and not all mixed people have long hair yadda yadda - but we all know the truth. My mom has thick hair that she grows past shoulder length quite easily. But I'm not going to pretend that the little bit of Asian blood a few generations back in her family has nothing to do with that. My sis and I have inherited some of that - so shoulder length is not a big deal for us - but our hair is more fragile than hers - we have to care more to get the results she doesn't do anything for.

But SO WHAT?? Hair that doesn't grow long easily isn't "bad hair". Who told us that hair "should" be long anyway? Where did we get that from? Are you cold and need it to cover you? Let's leave aside the scripture quoting - totally irrelevant IMO. What we're doing here growing our hair is purely an aesthetic, vanity project, and we should just leave it at that and smile.

let the church say amen.

 

[hotshot]

Hair, like anything in our lives, people, animals, etc. responds to love, not distaste and contempt. Your hair might not reach to your knees, but it's staying on your head and for that we should at least be grateful!

amen again.

 

[Jaizee]

I told myself I was going to stay out of this thread, but what they hey, what's one more round.

You can't simply imply ANY reason why ever last woman on the face of this planet relaxes. You can't. No matter what you think and whether you agree with it or not, everyone has their own reasoning behind it. That would be as silly as to saying that everyone who goes natural only did it because of damage- I don't know all naturals so I can't say that, plus I can think of one my Girlz off the top of my head who had gorgeous healthy relaxed hair who went natural.

To be quite honest with you, eating foods are now a danger because of the level of pesticides/preservatives, breathing air is because of air pollutants, walking because of the risk of getting hit/shot/raped/stabbed/etc, flying because of terrorist attacks, drive because of collisions, I could go on and on and on and on, but you get the point.

Just in case you don't, My point is EVERY SINGLE THING YOU DO nowadays in life is a risk. Why live your life with caution in every single thing you do because of non-direct links to diseases? Why should I subject myself to hours of endless detangling (if ya don't believe me you try coming over here and detangling my natural hair) for the risk of some disease (we don't have sufficient research about) when I can walk outside tomorrow and get hit by a bus? Life is too short for all the stressing and such, forreal.

It's not as deep as people want to believe for all people. It really ain't.
Some people seem to think by being natural it makes you one step closer to GOD and/or more 'Black' than another, it's really not that deep. HAIR is only one thing out of a millions things to worry about. As someone else said on this forum, life is too hard to be worrying and stressing over hair and what other people choose to do with their hair.

I think my post may have been misunderstood. I was only talking about the people who are told that their scalps are scarred from relaxers, but they continue to do it anyway. My own mother has been told that she can lose her hair because of the relaxers, but she said she'd rather be bald than to have natural hair.

Let me make one thing clear: I don't think having natural hair makes anyone "superior." I have cousins that use relaxers, and they have the most healthiest hair that I've ever seen. I don't think anyone is "blacker" because they have natural hair. I never said that, and I don't want those words put in my mouth. I was talking about one specific senario.

At the risk of having my words misconstrued, I'm done.

 

[Jaizee]

It could be. Maybe even if they know that it's dangerous for their scalp, they cannot let go of the ease with which they are accustomed to handling their hair. Maybe they will convince themselves "Oh, I can still relax but maybe this time I just won't get scalp burns and I know my hair won't fall out." Thus, it may be more of a comfort zone; they'd rather risk scalp damage and be able to easily manage their hair than give up the relaxers and feel they cannot manage their natural hair as easily. I mean, think about all the things people do that may not be safe for them but they continue to do because they don't want to let go of the ease and comfort that comes with them. This may seem like a really gross example but I think back to when I was in high school and this girl pulled out her tampon and threw it against the bathroom wall (a white girl) and was like "God, this thing has been inside me for 11 hours." I stood there with my mouth open, trying to understand what had just happened. Now she kept that tampon in longer than the recommended hours just because it was easier for her not to have to worry about putting in the effort (although small in my opinion) to change it, but you know you run more of a risk of toxic shock syndrome by leaving it in longer.

Oh, sorry, didn't see your reply the first time! You've raised some very valid points. I didn't think of it that way. Thank you for your post.

 

[navsegda]

Since YT put in our heads in the beginning, that you're black and ugly with that old crazy hair, why are we, having advanced in this society still struggling with this issue? Why, because in several instances we as black people have BOUGHT INTO THOSE LIES and have decided that hey, something IS wrong with us. WE are the ones keeping this junk up. NO need for YT to do it anymore, since we are doing it to ourselves.

By you bringing up those other issues that we as black people face is more of a justification to CONTINUE to envy other hair textures, since, hey, some black folk don't like their color, noses, lips, hips, butt, so what's the big deal about disliking my texture,too?

I didn't say that black women texturize/straighten their hair for the same reason, (I was one who relaxed because I wanted other styles that I couldn't obtain through my natural hair) ,but once again, let's keep it real- majority do out of dislike of their texture. Can't STAND to see a crinkle in their fresh do.

What I was saying is that I believe some of us can be divorced from this. Just because whites may have frowned upon our hair does not mean that the reason one or more of us dislike our texture now is because of white people's influences. This MAY be true for some but it does not have to be true for everyone. You cannot tell someone that if they feel this way then it MUST be because of this, that, or the other.

On your second part, exactly. What is the big deal? You should not have a problem with how someone else feels, totally unrelated to you, about their hair, lips, face, nose, etc. as long as they are not infringing upon your rights or trying to force their opinions on you. If someone tells you, "Hey, I envy X's texture of hair and you should too," then it's a different story. If someone, whether black or white, tells you what you SHOULD believe about hair and they are forcing their beauty standards upon you then you are doing the exact same thing (forcing your beauty standards on someone else) if you are to tell someone how they should feel about their natural hair or show disdain with them relaxing at the first sight of new growth, for instance. People who dislike their hair texture dislike it for several different reasons and one of those does NOT have to be because they are believing white hype. On the contrary, it very well could be. But if by justification you mean that I am saying "Go ahead. You SHOULD hate your kinky hair because we can hate so much else about ourselves, too" that is not what I am saying. There is a difference between advocacy/trying to push a certain agenda and TOLERANCE. I am being tolerant because no one in here is trying to harm themselves or others based on disdain of hair texture. If someone came in and said "OMG I HATE MY HAIR TEXTURE; I WANT TO KILL MYSELF BECAUSE I'M SO UNHAPPY," then I wouldn't say "Oh, that's fine. I'm just going to sit back and be tolerant."

We also need to accept each other REGARDLESS of their opinions on hair. In my book, if you are natural, good for you. If you are relaxed, good for you. I'm not going to sit back and try to make someone else feel bad about what they believe based on MY own opinions. Even if someone were to come in here right now and say "I buy into the lies of white society and I only relax because I wanna conform to white beauty standards" then that still doesn't give me, you, or anyone else a right to judge or berate them.

 

[Bunny77]

I didn't say that black women texturize/straighten their hair for the same reason, (I was one who relaxed because I wanted other styles that I couldn't obtain through my natural hair) ,but once again, let's keep it real- majority do out of dislike of their texture. Can't STAND to see a crinkle in their fresh do.


With this said, I see that I will keep repeating myself so I remove myself from this discussion.

I feel ya...

Again, I think most people on this thread (if one takes time to read through it all) have said that one cannot assume that all relaxed women think like XYZ and all natural women think like ABC and that's why they do their hair the way they do. We know it's not that simple.

However, if you are a black woman who grew up around black people, you are putting blinders on if you say that there is no issue for MOST black women when it comes to hair texture. I know that there are some black women who simply prefer relaxed hair and that's that. But even if you are one of those people, you can't act like that's how most black women think because they simply don't. We wouldn't be having this conversation, this thread, this board, countless books, papers, etc., if there wasn't this internal hatred of a nappier hair texture.

I asked a question earlier and one person answered from her own perspective (thanks, btw), but I'd like to hear more... doesn't anyone think there's something amiss with the fact that the majority of black women prefer a hair type that they don't have and have never had?

 

[navsegda]

Oh, and Bunny thanks for the compliments on my hair. Sorry I missed it in all the chaos lol.

 

[envybeauty]

Great questions. My little cousin cut her sister's hair because she had beady bees. It is obvious her mother expressed beady bees as being negative.

One trip to Africa (pick a country in the South or West) will disabuse anyone of the notion that a little black girl with short hair is due to negativity. Little girls all over the continent have short hair cuts (literally mere millimeters of hair on their heads). It is such a norm. Self-hatred? I think not. Convenient for their mothers? Yup.

Not saying this is about your cousin but someone would read that and think that is the case for all black girls anytime they saw one with short hair.

 

[Enchantmt]

On your second part, exactly. What is the big deal? You should not have a problem with how someone else feels, totally unrelated to you, about their hair, lips, face, nose, etc. as long as they are not infringing upon your rights or trying to force their opinions on you.

We also need to accept each other REGARDLESS of their opinions on hair. In my book, if you are natural, good for you. If you are relaxed, good for you. I'm not going to sit back and try to make someone else feel bad about what they believe based on MY own opinions. Even if someone were to come in here right now and say "I buy into the lies of white society and I only relax because I wanna conform to white beauty standards" then that still doesn't give me, you, or anyone else a right to judge or berate them.

I have to disagree with this to a certain point. While I agree we need to respect each others decisions, I would hope that if there was a sister who was hurting because of self hatred/low self esteem relating to her hair, skin or any other feature, and someone had interaction with her enough to speak into her life so she can see her true beauty, that one would speak. I'm not saying force your idealogy down peoples throats, even a compliment can do wonders. Some folx dont realize there is another acceptable way of doing things until it is shown to them. Some folx feel they need permission to take action in their lives or go against what is the social norm. I have been in this rut myself at different times in my life. A word of encouragement would have worked wonders for me then.

We can learn from each other, even if we dont go on to make the same types of choices. A lot of women on this forum would never have transitioned, if they had not seen it could be done by others showing the way. A lot of relaxed ladies wouldnt have seen the beauty in and realized the potential of their hair to grow to great lengths had it not been for someone showing them the way, and giving them wisdom for taking care of their hair. We have folx now who are struggling to love their hair, relaxed and natural. Those who have been though this type of period and gone on to embrace their hair, whether relaxed or natural, can help the ones struggling to get to that place too.

 

[navsegda]

I have to disagree with this to a certain point. While I agree we need to respect each others decisions, I would hope that if there was a sister who was hurting because of self hatred/low self esteem relating to her hair, skin or any other feature, and someone had interaction with her enough to speak into her life so she can see her true beauty, that one would speak. I'm not saying force your idealogy down peoples throats, even a compliment can do wonders. Some folx dont realize there is another acceptable way of doing things until it is shown to them. Some folx feel they need permission to take action in their lives or go against what is the social norm. I have been in this rut myself at different times in my life. A word of encouragement would have worked wonders for me then.

We can learn from each other, even if we dont go on to make the same types of choices. A lot of women on this forum would never have transitioned, if they had not seen it could be done by others showing the way. A lot of relaxed ladies wouldnt have seen the beauty in and realized the potential of their hair to grow to great lengths had it not been for someone showing them the way, and giving them wisdom for taking care of their hair. We have folx now who are struggling to love their hair, relaxed and natural. Those who have been though this type of period and gone on to embrace their hair, whether relaxed or natural, can help the ones struggling to get to that place too.

There is also a difference in how we may come across. If someone is hurting because of self-hatred or any other matter, if we go off on her about how she needs to do this or that, then it's only going to make matters worse. We could be contributing to her self-hatred even more. But you are right. If you say something encouraging, that doesn't mean that you are trying to force your opinion on her if she said "I hate my natural texture" and you said "It's beautiful" but it would definitely be a problem if you said "Your natural texture is beautiful, how dare you say such a thing, stop conforming to white beauty standards. You should be happy with the freaking hair God gave you." That makes it a whole 'nother ballgame. I don't have a problem with naturals or relaxed heads telling someone of the other persuasion that their own hair is beautiful and that's why they choose to personally be one or the other. It's the sanctimonious attitude that some of us have where we cannot just stop at offering our opinion but we have to be degrading and insulting while we're at it just because someone shares a differing opinion. This is when tolerance needs to kick in.

 

[zailless]

What I was saying is that I believe some of us can be divorced from this. Just because whites may have frowned upon our hair does not mean that the reason one or more of us dislike our texture now is because of white people's influences. This MAY be true for some but it does not have to be true for everyone. You cannot tell someone that if they feel this way then it MUST be because of this, that, or the other.

On your second part, exactly. What is the big deal? You should not have a problem with how someone else feels, totally unrelated to you, about their hair, lips, face, nose, etc. as long as they are not infringing upon your rights or trying to force their opinions on you. If someone tells you, "Hey, I envy X's texture of hair and you should too," then it's a different story. If someone, whether black or white, tells you what you SHOULD believe about hair and they are forcing their beauty standards upon you then you are doing the exact same thing (forcing your beauty standards on someone else) if you are to tell someone how they should feel about their natural hair or show disdain with them relaxing at the first sight of new growth, for instance. People who dislike their hair texture dislike it for several different reasons and one of those does NOT have to be because they are believing white hype. On the contrary, it very well could be. But if by justification you mean that I am saying "Go ahead. You SHOULD hate your kinky hair because we can hate so much else about ourselves, too" that is not what I am saying. There is a difference between advocacy/trying to push a certain agenda and TOLERANCE. I am being tolerant because no one in here is trying to harm themselves or others based on disdain of hair texture. If someone came in and said "OMG I HATE MY HAIR TEXTURE; I WANT TO KILL MYSELF BECAUSE I'M SO UNHAPPY," then I wouldn't say "Oh, that's fine. I'm just going to sit back and be tolerant."

We also need to accept each other REGARDLESS of their opinions on hair. In my book, if you are natural, good for you. If you are relaxed, good for you. I'm not going to sit back and try to make someone else feel bad about what they believe based on MY own opinions. Even if someone were to come in here right now and say "I buy into the lies of white society and I only relax because I wanna conform to white beauty standards" then that still doesn't give me, you, or anyone else a right to judge or berate them.

I agree with you totally. people are are so military about race and hair. as if it has to mean some kind of a race issue to hate your hair.
no matter what was written by that poster you were responding to, 98% of women with our hair texture probably wake up every 2 weeks wondering what to do with their hair. its not as easy to just get up and style it even if you are bored sometimes you dont have to option to get up and just go to work because you know it will fall into place. it wont. and its not a big deal, we just go on from one style to the next but its still difficult.

 

[seraphim712]

Wow,

I've been sitting on the sidelines watching you guys go back and forth. It's a very interesting and deep topic. Kinda drawn out but interesting indeed.

However, I thought the main purpose of this forum was to learn how to maintain healthy hair in order for it to acheive long lengths, thus the name of the forum: Long Hair Care.

It seems like some women are getting upset on this post at other women by telling them that they should appreciate the hair they have and others are getting upset about the topic of relaxed hair vs. natural hair etc...

My point is, I think every woman on this board no matter how much they complain about their hair whether long or short, natural or relaxed, etc. are still grateful for the hair they have/ some just want to learn how to longer hair(I personally like longer hair)/ others just want to learn how to maintain healthy hair/ while others are trying to recover from hair loss. Everyone is here for a different purpose, and instead of being critical towards their questions and concerns about hair growth, it should be embraced with a helping hand.

I'm not good at expressing my opinions well, so I hope this makes sense.

 

[Mahalialee4]

Wow,

I've been sitting on the sidelines watching you guys go back and forth. It's a very interesting and deep topic. Kinda drawn out but interesting indeed.

However, I thought the main purpose of this forum was to learn how to maintain healthy hair in order for it to acheive long lengths, thus the name of the forum: Long Hair Care.

It seems like some women are getting upset on this post at other women by telling them that they should appreciate the hair they have and others are getting upset about the topic of relaxed hair vs. natural hair etc...

My point is, I think every woman on this board no matter how much they complain about their hair whether long or short, natural or relaxed, etc. are still grateful for the hair they have/ some just want to learn how to longer hair(I personally like longer hair)/ others just want to learn how to maintain healthy hair/ while others are trying to recover from hair loss. Everyone is here for a different purpose, and instead of being critical towards their questions and concerns about hair growth, it should be embraced with a helping hand.

I'm not good at expressing my opinions well, so I hope this makes sense

Of course you make sense. I agree it is a Long Haired Forum but it seems that some heartfelt topics come up and we try not to brush each other off. If you were to post on something and felt stumped and just kind of...."why why is this happening to me and it make me feel so discouraged......." etc. you would be amazed at how many thoughtful ladies would go out of their way to help you arrive at an answer that would enable you to move on to the target goal of gaining long hair. There can be so many issues along the way for some of us. Sometimes I just hit the "search button" when I feel the need to just focus ONLY ON the "actually gaining long hair with care, techniques, regimes etc." Maybe that is how you are feeling right now and maybe the same thing would make it easier for you not have to plow through what may be irrelevant for you right now. I do a lot of research on many things aside from the Board, SO getting in deeper comes natural to me I guess.

By the way, if you have anything I can learn from about reaching our mutual goal of getting long hair faster....pm me or post it. I am a glutton for info. bonjour

 

[Isis]

And as long as black woman are asking why God CURSED them with the natural texture of that hair - things are NEVER going to change. Until WE send out the message that WE are proud of OUR hair - just as it grows out of our head, OF COURSE people are going to assume there is something wrong with it. Heck, WE believe there is something 'wrong' with our hair.

All of the above examples sound like out and out ignorance - a chance to educate the OTHER about the truth of our hair - that only WE can speak on, because only WE know our hair. Over on NP, they started a petition with the BPD tried to say that natural hairstyles weren't allowed - and the BALTIMORE POLICE DEPARTMENT backed down because a bunch of loud, proud, black people stood up and said - NO. There is NOTHING wrong with our hair the way it comes out of our head, and YOU will not try to implement rules that make it seem like there is.

But as long as we are complaining about how 'other' races don't have to go through all this with their hair (races that don't FIGHT their natural hair nearly as much as we do), and as long as we are 'ashamed' of what grows out of our head naturally, and as long as we are 'questioning' whether our GENETICS have been 'warped' in some way - of COURSE the rest of the world is going to look down on our hair - hell, WE ain't even learned how to stop looking down on it.

Until WE stop looking down on our natural hair, ain't nobody ELSE gonna stop looking down on our natural hair. And I think that's why this thread has so many 'sad' people in it - because as long as someone can even ASK if GOD CURSED THEM with their natural hair......it makes me want to cry that anyone could think that God would be hateful enough to curse an entire race....instead of thinking that God BLESSED us with something that NO other race has.

ITA. Unless we change our beliefs about hair, starting with ourselves individually, those attitudes will remain in the world around us. This applies to everything, including how we feel as black females and females period. It all starts with us. What happens out in the world is a mirror of what we as individuals and as people collectively are believing.
*reads more to catch up on this thread*

 

[Bunny77]

On your second part, exactly. What is the big deal? You should not have a problem with how someone else feels, totally unrelated to you, about their hair, lips, face, nose, etc. as long as they are not infringing upon your rights or trying to force their opinions on you.

The reason it's a big deal for me is because I have met too many young (and old) black women who have suffered from low self-esteem and all of its accompanying side effects (like depression) because of aesthetic issues like hair and skin color. Now, I'm a person who believes that what really matters is what's inside... how good of a person you are, how intelligent you are, what you've done for the world, whatever, but even the most enlightened of women want to feel beautiful. They want at least one man in their lives to tell them they are beautiful... an absence of that "beautiful" feeling appears to do a mental number on women that goes far beyond just being dissatisfied or frustrated with one aspect of one's appearance.

Reading Kally's posts through this thread (and sorry to call her out again, but she is the OP, so I'll refer to her), she mentioned that she had low self-esteem and this hair issue is one that has caused her great mental pain. She was woman enough to be honest and put it out there like that, but I'm sure she's far from the only one to feel that way... and I know that low self-esteem affects all women, but it's particularly insiduous for black women because many of our features are totally opposite of the white beauty ideal.

And low self-esteem causes people to make poor choices... maybe choosing to be with the wrong man because a woman doesn't think anyone else will want her because she's "ugly." It makes little girls feel that they're less than if their mothers are criticizing their hair from a place of frustration... low self-esteem can lead to depression, etc.... now I'm not saying that there's a direct leap from disliking nappy hair to staying with a man who beats you... I'm saying though that a lack of pride in one's heritage (which includes the physical manifestations of it) can lead to low self-esteem and you can't tell me that society's racism and focus on black inferiority hasn't done a number on the health of our community.

This is not about saying one has to be natural to love one's hair or anything like that, but I think to say "what's the big deal" regarding the black community's indoctrination that 1A hair is best is only keeping many of us in a place of pain, shame, hurt, etc.... We need to REALLY look past the fact that some individuals are enlightened about this topic and truly address what most of the community feels about hair (and our skin tone too, I'd say) to get to a point where maybe we can make more positive change in our community.

I truly believe that it's hard for us to progress as a people if we don't at least accept who we are in our own community. And we aren't doing that, regardless of how we're wearing our hair.

 

[envybeauty]

I've been hearing a lot of these stories about people not being able to show up with a certain type of hair at their workplace and I must say that is a problem that doesn't accur in Belgium (Europe?). I wear my hair natural and I work part time as a cashier and as a receptionist in an office. I was thinking: maybe it's because white Americans know much more about black hair, they know that you can RELAX it instead of wearing braids and stuff, whilest here, people don't know that much about black hair, so whatever type of hair you show up with, they don't care. All they know is: black ppl got nappy hair! What y'all think 'bout this theory?

I disagree with your theory and the basis for it. I lived in Belgium (Leuven) and traveled all throughout the French and Dutch speaking cities. There are black salons in Brussels and Leuven, etc. where women get relaxers, braids, etc. They are not plentiful but they are there. Black women in Brussels and elsewhere walk all over with relaxers, etc. in their hair...dry hair with that hard water and all....but straight. So do the black ERASMUS students who come from the UK, France, and other countries. Black women in Europe wore their hair in as many different styles/looks as American women (braids, relaxed, nappy). It is not as if Black women in Belgium (and many of them are not born and raised there unlike most American Blacks) all are seen with just fros.

That said, white people in Belgium do not know less about what Black people do to their hair than YT here. They know the same amount -- which is nothing. (Just ask anybody on here how many times some American YT asked JUST HOW MANY braids were in their hair as if Black women are to count and know the hundreds put in when getting box braids).

Just because some Blacks there walk around with fros, relaxed hair, braids, etc. does not mean that Blacks there do not get questioned or looked at differently because our hair was different from the rest.

Likewise, certain positions here (as there) do not demand that Black women wear only straight styles. I have not heard a story about someone here being fired in the positions you mentioned (cashier/receptionist) just because they wear a fro. Many cashiers/receptions here wear fros, braids, etc. If the boss over those positions has a problem with fros, then they would not have hired the woman with the fro to begin with (whether in the US or Belgium). There are not many (if only really a handful) of Black women in leadership positions in Belgium. How many of them have fros?

OT: Belgium has racial issues that go above and beyond hair. I was there for Christmas and the whole Zwarte Pete (Black Peter) thing pissed me off! Zwarte Pete is some little Black helper that works for Santa Claus. Apparently, the role/story of Zwarte Pete never made it across the shores when YT brought the legend of Santa Clause over from Europe. Belgiums walk around in Black face during Christmas to look like Zwarte Pete...they find nothing wrong with it and they encourage one another ..even little kids...to walk around in black face to "look" like pete. It is downright insulting.

 

[Bunny77]

What happens out in the world is a mirror of what we as individuals and as people collectively are believing.

And that's why I think it is a big deal. We need to have honest discussions about this because what we're doing now hasn't helped one bit.

 

[Blu217]

I have to disagree with this to an extent. I've read countless times on this forum and other hair forums where someone is told that relaxers are messing up their scalp, but they continue to relax. I honestly don't know if it was you or someone else in this thread who said that they had scalp problems from relaxers, so this most likely doesn't apply to you. IMO, if someone continues to relax their hair after they've been told that it's dangerous for them to do so, is it really just a styling option?

Hi Jaizee -

I have posted about my diagnosis of scarring alopecia, suspected to be from relaxing.

It's extremely difficult to be in a situation where you're forced to choose a hair texture you don't want to wear or work with. I've been relaxed since childhood, and relaxing has always been about getting a comb thru my hair, just a styling option. I really don't know what to do with natural hair; transition long and risk breakage and shedding. Cut it off and... a twa and me would not mix on any level, particularly at my office and on the stages where I play music. I hate heat. I hate relaxers. I hate detangling my natural hair because of its fragility. I just want to comb my hair, get it looking reasonably tidy and go on about my day. I like it very much the way it is and I've got this down to a science.

Contrast this with the horror of basically going bald. Alopecia is a 8itch, and the choices and decisions those of us facing this have to make I wouldn't wish on anyone. I've done a lot of research about what is best for me to do. At present I do relax, but now about once every 3 months vs the old 6 week routine prior to my diagnosis. How to fit natural hair into my relaxed world... I don't have that worked out yet, but the stretching is part of the learning process for me, and it's also better, at least, for my scalp in the meantime. And seeing the numbers of natural women on the board who after years being that way elect to relax again doesn't encourage me much. The idea of natural always sounds great--until I've got an inch of new growth on my head I'm trying to manage and smooth out. I get exasperated with the pros and cons and dos and don'ts and often think of just shaving it off altogether and REALLY giving things a rest for a while.

There are, for me, no easy answers along this journey.

 

[Jaizee]

Hi Jaizee -

I have posted about my diagnosis of scarring alopecia, suspected to be from relaxing.

It's extremely difficult to be in a situation where you're forced to choose a hair texture you don't want to wear or work with. I've been relaxed since childhood, and relaxing has always been about getting a comb thru my hair, just a styling option. I really don't know what to do with natural hair; transition long and risk breakage and shedding. Cut it off and... a twa and me would not mix on any level, particularly at my office and on the stages where I play music. I hate heat. I hate relaxers. I hate detangling my natural hair because of its fragility. I just want to comb my hair, get it looking reasonably tidy and go on about my day. I like it very much the way it is and I've got this down to a science.

Contrast this with the horror of basically going bald. Alopecia is a 8itch, and the choices and decisions those of us facing this have to make I wouldn't wish on anyone. I've done a lot of research about what is best for me to do. At present I do relax, but now about once every 3 months vs the old 6 week routine prior to my diagnosis. How to fit natural hair into my relaxed world... I don't have that worked out yet, but the stretching is part of the learning process for me, and it's also better, at least, for my scalp in the meantime. And seeing the numbers of natural women on the board who after years being that way elect to relax again doesn't encourage me much. The idea of natural always sounds great--until I've got an inch of new growth on my head I'm trying to manage and smooth out. I get exasperated with the pros and cons and dos and don'ts and often think of just shaving it off altogether and REALLY giving things a rest for a while.

There are, for me, no easy answers along this journey.

I know I said I was done with this thread, but I wanted to respond to this post. Thank you for posting this. I really mean it. My mom had something similar happen to her with relaxers. Thank you again for this post, I really appreciate it. I hope that everything works out for you!

 

[kally]

I would like to say thank you so much to all who support me and understand where I am coming from.

For those who do not. I still thank you for your responses. It is all still helpful info to me. I really do not see it as casting stones at me, but only trying to help me see how you view it.

I did not mean for it to come across as a curse from God but more as to say I do not think God's plan for us orginally was for our hair to be this fragile.

I have learned so much from all of the different responses on here, from climate, culture, scriptures, documents, etc... I has opened my mind to really be able to heal. Thanks you all. I needed it.

One day I will be happy to report that I truly and honestly love my hair.

 

[navsegda]

The reason it's a big deal for me is because I have met too many young (and old) black women who have suffered from low self-esteem and all of its accompanying side effects (like depression) because of aesthetic issues like hair and skin color. Now, I'm a person who believes that what really matters is what's inside... how good of a person you are, how intelligent you are, what you've done for the world, whatever, but even the most enlightened of women want to feel beautiful. They want at least one man in their lives to tell them they are beautiful.

If you feel that someone is truly in danger of hurting themselves (physically or emotionally) or others, then it makes sense for something to be a big deal. However, if a girl just says "I don't like my texture because it's hard to manage" then no one should read that much into it unless she chooses to elaborate. This is when it should not be a big deal. Now if you give her suggestions on how she could use product X,Y, or Z to make her natural texture more manageable, then that doesn't mean you are making a big deal out of things. She may be thankful or she may think you have overstepped your boundaries, who knows? However, if you give her these suggestions and then go on and on about how she should accept and love her natural texture and stop trying to fight it because it's not meant to be forced into submission, then that's when you can become insulting. Sometimes when we do make something a big deal that really isn't (from the person's standpoint in my example), it does more harm than good. Because of what we may wrongly perceive as being a self esteem issue based on our experiences with others, if we voice it as that without further elaboration or invitation on the commenter's part, then we can indirectly cause it TO become a self esteem issue or other psychological problem.

Reading Kally's posts through this thread (and sorry to call her out again, but she is the OP, so I'll refer to her), she mentioned that she had low self-esteem and this hair issue is one that has caused her great mental pain. She was woman enough to be honest and put it out there like that, but I'm sure she's far from the only one to feel that way... and I know that low self-esteem affects all women, but it's particularly insiduous for black women because many of our features are totally opposite of the white beauty ideal.

And look at how some people behaved when she admitted this. Do you really think that berating her was the answer (I know you didn't do this)? You (general) do NOT kick someone when they are down. If negativity is all you have to offer, then it really should not be a big deal to you if the fact that it is a big deal is going to cause you to lash out or hurt someone else instead of helping them. If everyone here had given her helpful suggestions on boosting her self esteem instead of attacking her for her views then it would not have been an issue. I know some tried to be helpful and weren't being attacking but others were doing the opposite.

This is not about saying one has to be natural to love one's hair or anything like that, but I think to say "what's the big deal" regarding the black community's indoctrination that 1A hair is best is only keeping many of us in a place of pain, shame, hurt, etc.... We need to REALLY look past the fact that some individuals are enlightened about this topic and truly address what most of the community feels about hair (and our skin tone too, I'd say) to get to a point where maybe we can make more positive change in our community.

How do we know what most of the black community thinks about their hair texture or skin color? Assumptions can lead us in very dark places...We can for instance make a statement based on what we see (texture demographics, etc.) but we jump the gun when we say that most people feel a certain way, too. We may personally know several black women who have voiced that they have self-esteem or other issues because of hair texture but that doesn't mean these are the majority. In fact, I have seen no evidence that the majority of black women feel that 1A hair (or the like) is best. I'm using relaxed as an example because this is how many of us achieve a "straighter" texture of the hair already on our head and this is something that can actually be seen and quanitifed. Even if most of us are relaxed, you cannot always link what we see (the relaxed texture) to how we feel (unappreciative of our race or ourselves). Truth be known, we just do not know that the majority who relax or may be otherwise uncomfortable with their texture (there are some naturals who are currently uncomfortable for whatever reason) do so because of some underlying emotional pain, self-hatred, or lack of pride in one's heritage. If someone does a study though with say, 20,000 black women (such as by a mass questionnaire) and then the majority of them express self esteem issues over their natural hair texture, then we're getting somewhere.

I am glad we can have a civil conversation about this.

 

[Mahalialee4]

I empathize with you Kally. and Bunny77 you were right. My point that I was making....the psychological damage that has been done to black people in general and to black women regarding what is their crowning glory and that hatred and self hatred has messed with our heads to actually feel like it is a crown of thorns!!!! or instead of something that uplifts and reaffirms you being seen as a burden, a cross to bear....that's what "racism" started. Had it not been for racism, none of this would be an issue......See, what you "believe" is what causes people to get depressed.....to even turn on themselves to where they believe that their lying tormenters are right! but in truth...THERE IS NOTHING WRONG.... with black women, their features or THEIR HAIR....NOTHING....it is what you believe and why you believe it that is WRONG!

Here is an example: A young girl with doubts about herself, finds herself feeling, unloved, unwanted, and having no value. She meets a "man" who says He is going to be her protector and that he knows what she needs and what is best for her. He pretends to be this benevolent person. He uses manipulation and mindcontrol by lying and twisting the truth. Next thing, she falls under his power, and puts her on the street, constantly proving to this monster thatshe is "worthy of his love and attention and approval." She gets it by turning tricks, in the process being taken from one self degradation to another. Now "smooth talker" starts telling her she is dirt! nothing! psychologically breaking her down, keeping her in a mental state, a psychological prison, and eventually she believes it because not only does he say so but her behaviours reinforce that she is bad! dirty! and that no man could ever love someone like her!!! She hated herself! and that she cannot even go home again! How was this accomplished??? because something in her life experience had primed her for this and when she was most vulnerable someone came along to finish her off! That's what was done to us!

Everything about us got PIMPED through racism, RIGHT DOWN TO THE HAIR ON OUR HEADS. But what you believe now that you know the truth is going to empower you and when they see that we do not need their approval or their standards TO JUDGE OURSELVES BY, their power WILL CEASE!
Now apply that to your hair!!!




Kally I totally applaud your honesty and your openess and I know you were speaking from your heart and it ain't nothing wrong with being honest about how you really feel. (lots of hugs sis)



bonjour....

 

[jenteel]

I empathize with you Kally. and Bunny77 you were right. My point that I was making....the psychological damage that has been done to black people in general and to black women regarding what is their crowning glory and that hatred and self hatred has messed with our heads to actually feel like it is a crown of thorns!!!! or instead of something that uplifts and reaffirms you being seen as a burden, a cross to bear....that's what "racism" started. Had it not been for racism, none of this would be an issue......See, what you "believe" is what causes people to get depressed.....to even turn on themselves to where they believe that their lying tormenters are right! but in truth...THERE IS NOTHING WRONG.... with black women, their features or THEIR HAIR....NOTHING....it is what you believe and why you believe it that is WRONG!

i totally agree!
i am not militant - do what u want w/ ur hair!
however i do believe these issues are tied into racism point blank
and it saddens me that we feel these ways about ourselves.....

 

[zailless]

If you feel that someone is truly in danger of hurting themselves (physically or emotionally) or others, then it makes sense for something to be a big deal. However, if a girl just says "I don't like my texture because it's hard to manage" then no one should read that much into it unless she chooses to elaborate. This is when it should not be a big deal. Now if you give her suggestions on how she could use product X,Y, or Z to make her natural texture more manageable, then that doesn't mean you are making a big deal out of things. She may be thankful or she may think you have overstepped your boundaries, who knows? However, if you give her these suggestions and then go on and on about how she should accept and love her natural texture and stop trying to fight it because it's not meant to be forced into submission, then that's when you can become insulting. Sometimes when we do make something a big deal that really isn't (from the person's standpoint in my example), it does more harm than good. Because of what we may wrongly perceive as being a self esteem issue based on our experiences with others, if we voice it as that without further elaboration or invitation on the commenter's part, then we can indirectly cause it TO become a self esteem issue or other psychological problem.


And look at how some people behaved when she admitted this. Do you really think that berating her was the answer (I know you didn't do this)? You (general) do NOT kick someone when they are down. If negativity is all you have to offer, then it really should not be a big deal to you if the fact that it is a big deal is going to cause you to lash out or hurt someone else instead of helping them. If everyone here had given her helpful suggestions on boosting her self esteem instead of attacking her for her views then it would not have been an issue. I know some tried to be helpful and weren't being attacking but others were doing the opposite.




How do we know what most of the black community thinks about their hair texture or skin color? Assumptions can lead us in very dark places...We can for instance make a statement based on what we see (texture demographics, etc.) but we jump the gun when we say that most people feel a certain way, too. We may personally know several black women who have voiced that they have self-esteem or other issues because of hair texture but that doesn't mean these are the majority. In fact, I have seen no evidence that the majority of black women feel that 1A hair (or the like) is best. I'm using relaxed as an example because this is how many of us achieve a "straighter" texture of the hair already on our head and this is something that can actually be seen and quanitifed. Even if most of us are relaxed, you cannot always link what we see (the relaxed texture) to how we feel (unappreciative of our race or ourselves). Truth be known, we just do not know that the majority who relax or may be otherwise uncomfortable with their texture (there are some naturals who are currently uncomfortable for whatever reason) do so because of some underlying emotional pain, self-hatred, or lack of pride in one's heritage. If someone does a study though with say, 20,000 black women (such as by a mass questionnaire) and then the majority of them express self esteem issues over their natural hair texture, then we're getting somewhere.

I am glad we can have a civil conversation about this.

I have never met one black person who had self esteem issues related to hair. I think people make up things to support their point.

why is it some peopole think other races look down on black hair so if we dont like it they wont. this is simply bs. other races accept blacks for who they are. its blacks who blow the differences out of the water and continually segregate based on superficial issues. for this to come up in a hair discussion is proof that whites owe us something too for our hair issues . this is only what i understand from this 'we must love our hair cause other races look down' idea.

 

[LynnieB]

i'm quoting zailless here but also want to respond to anyone else who doesn't seem to think there is a problem with black hair.

I have never met one black person who had self esteem issues related to hair. I think people make up things to support their point.

i sincerely hope you were kidding when you wrote this because there is a website that is totally dedicated to to black folks dealing with just this type of self esteem issue and it IS directly related (for the most part) to hair.
____

this is a real, serious problem and just because it may not effect you negatively, it does effect at least 56,319 other registered men and women on NP erplexed

for those who have never dealt with "the hair/skin issue" i'm truly happy for you - we need to have empathy for those that do and help lift them up and beyond the stigma associated with our blackness.

 

[WomanlyCharm]

I have never met one black person who had self esteem issues related to hair. I think people make up things to support their point.

Oh please. You cannot be serious. I mean really. You've never met one black woman who was upset because her hair was short, broken off, not growing, and felt ugly and unhappy because of it?

What website are you on? ONE ABOUT BLACK/WOMEN OF COLOR GROWING HEALTHY AND POTENTIALLY LONG HAIR. And there are many other websites devoted to this very subject! For many ladies, hair IS a self-esteem issue, and for you to simply dismiss it as "someone trying to support a point" is ludacris and short-sighted.

 

[Soleado]

i totally agree!
i am not militant - do what u want w/ ur hair!
however i do believe these issues are tied into racism point blank
and it saddens me that we feel these ways about ourselves.....

I agree!! It is also very sad to me that we continue to live in a state of self-delusion where we really believe that for the majority it is all about a choice. I don't know. Maybe all the enlightened folks are on this board, but in IRL I do not see this played out by what people say and what they do AT ALL. I have heard too many negative comments made from people about their own hair and I have seen too many grown woman slobbering and salivating over particular hairtypes to ever believe that it is all truly just a matter of preference.

Unfortuntately, I have just come to realize that this will always be a issue in the black community because we will not HONESTLY address the issues at hand and will continue to put up the smoke and mirrors.

Oh well, C'est la vie!

 

[navsegda]

this is a real, serious problem and just because it may not effect you negatively, it does effect at least 56,319 other registered men and women on NP erplexed

I have a question. Are all the 56,319 people registered at nappturality.com there because they have self esteem issues with their hair or are some of these people there because they want to bond with others like them who appreciate their hair, for instance? Dealing with a social stigma and having personal self esteem issues related to that stigma do not have to be the same thing. They can be mutually exclusive of one another. How do we know the purpose for ALL the people on a website as large as that? Have all of them posted and said as much? Or are we just assuming because of the nature of the site or the welcome message outlined that everyone is struggling with some type of hair self esteem issue? You can be uplifting and empowering to someone else without having the same type of problem yourself. If someone tells me "I hate being white," I've never been white nor have I ever hated being black, but I can still offer some type of encouragement if I so wished.

This is not to say that there aren't several people there who in fact may have self esteem issues related to their hair. It's to say that a broad generalization cannot be made based on the amount of registered users. If I have misinterpreted what you are saying, feel free to correct me.

 

[LynnieB]

I have a question. Are all the 56,319 people registered at nappturality.com there because they have self esteem issues with their hair or are some of these people there because they want to bond with others like them who appreciate their hair, for instance? Dealing with a social stigma and having personal self esteem issues related to that stigma do not have to be the same thing. They can be mutually exclusive of one another. How do we know the purpose for ALL the people on a website as large as that? Have all of them posted and said as much? Or are we just assuming because of the nature of the site or the welcome message outlined that everyone is struggling with some type of hair self esteem issue? You can be uplifting and empowering to someone else without having the same type of problem yourself. If someone tells me "I hate being white," I've never been white nor have I ever hated being black, but I can still offer some type of encouragement if I so wished.

This is not to say that there aren't several people there who in fact may have self esteem issues related to their hair. It's to say that a broad generalization cannot be made based on the amount of registered users. If I have misinterpreted what you are saying, feel free to correct me.

navsegda, why don't you ask them? not being funny or anything, it's just a great question that i'm sure alot of the members would not mind answering at all.

here's the greeting page (mission statement).......personally, i would say hair acceptance issues bring folks in initially.........

the mission statement of NP http://www.nappturality.com/index.php

 

[navsegda]

navsegda, why don't you ask them? not being funny or anything, it's just a great question that i'm sure alot of the members would not mind answering at all.

here's the greeting page (mission statement).......personally, i would say hair acceptance issues bring folks in initially.........

the mission statement of NP http://www.nappturality.com/index.php

I'm not a member, YET, HAHAHAHA.

I totally agree that it may be hair acceptance that brings them in. However, hair acceptance and having problems with self esteem personally do not have to be related issues. Self esteem implies a personal problem; acceptance encompasses a much greater landscape (you could be accepting of yourself and others and help them with their own issues but it doesn't mean you are going through the same thing).