Was our hair meant to be this difficult?

[kally]

To all the above.

 

[LocksOfLuV]

Man, I was made fun of by black people when I was natural as a child. Now some black people will make fun of me because I'm relaxed. It's like a Catch 22 situation anywhere you go. You can't win for losing. Like I have said, everyone should just accept the hairstyle choices we all choose to make or just kindly STFU. What gives you the freaking right to be holier-than-thou and look down upon someone else for something that does not personally affect you one way or another? If someone likes their hair or doesn't like their hair, how is it causing any of us to lose any sleep at night or harming any of us in any way? There are all sorts of things we like and dislike and yet none of them are criticized or ridiculed in the way hair is.

HELLO!!!!

 

[Bunny77]

No one is trying to imply that black babies are the only ones with texture changes. Not all are (some have much looser textures of hair and retained these textures). However, many had much looser textures of hair when they were babies and even later points that eventually progressed to a more-coiled, "kinkier" texture if you will. Many is indicative of a large number, it is not all encompassing. We've already discussed that some babies of other races (like Isis brought up) have textures of hair similar to many of our own now and we were debating whether or not that texture changed like many of ours did when they grew older, too. I said I had never seen a black baby with kinky hair the same texture it is now but that doesn't mean you or someone else hasn't.

Also, many babies are born bald (several white babies are). However, baldness and the texture growing out of your head are two different subjects. I'm talking about the texture that grows out of your head whenever it first grows at whatever point and how it may or may not change as you progress.

The point I'm making though is this... why is it that folks feel that black babies texture change is bad? I brought up the baldness thing only to say that what you're born with (or without) has no bearing on what you end up with.

So why is it a problem that black babies' hair gets kinkier?

 

[Bunny77]

Oh, and I think the reason some people are getting a little bothered is not because some folks prefer straight hair and some don't, but because the underlying idea being floated around is that there's something inherently WRONG with the way our hair is.

There is not. Now, that doesn't mean that everyone is going to like having kinky hair or won't prefer that it be a different texture... and that's another issue that I won't get into on this thread. But I don't care how one puts it, there is NOTHING INHERENTLY WRONG OR BAD about kinky, coily, highly textured black hair.

I think when we start getting into the "well, why did God give this to us, did he make a mistake" or "is he cursing us with this hair" it shows more of an issue with us as a community rather than God. And yes, I am bothered personally when I see wonderful Christian men and women in my daily life (whether in real life and on this board) who will glorify God from sun-up to sun-down suddenly want to say that he did black folks wrong by not giving us straight or wavy hair.

Come on now, aren't we better than that?

And whether or not we were meant to have this hair or it evolved this way or not, we've got it now. You can either accept what it can and cannot do and embrace it, or you can go through life being angry/hurt/disappointed about it.

I know I'd rather focus on the positive option. The second choice only lowers your self-esteem and gives you high blood pressure.

Edited to add... I also don't think anyone should feel bad about their thoughts, but at the same time, as with anything, if an issue is causing you so much pain and hurt that it's a continual focus or barrier to building greater self-esteem, then yes, one probably should work on their thinking/actions to get away from that negativity. What's the purpose of going through life never working on oneself and always being bitter/upset/disappointed?

 

[Country gal]

Oh, and I think the reason some people are getting a little bothered is not because some folks prefer straight hair and some don't, but because the underlying idea being floated around is that there's something inherently WRONG with the way our hair is.

There is not. Now, that doesn't mean that everyone is going to like having kinky hair or won't prefer that it be a different texture... and that's another issue that I won't get into on this thread. But I don't care how one puts it, there is NOTHING INHERENTLY WRONG OR BAD about kinky, coily, highly textured black hair.

I think when we start getting into the "well, why did God give this to us, did he make a mistake" or "is he cursing us with this hair" it shows more of an issue with us as a community rather than God. And yes, I am bothered personally when I see wonderful Christian men and women in my daily life (whether in real life and on this board) who will glorify God from sun-up to sun-down suddenly want to say that he did black folks wrong by not giving us straight or wavy hair.

Come on now, aren't we better than that?

And whether or not we were meant to have this hair or it evolved this way or not, we've got it now. You can either accept what it can and cannot do and embrace it, or you can go through life being angry/hurt/disappointed about it.

I know I'd rather focus on the positive option. The second choice only lowers your self-esteem and gives you high blood pressure.

Edited to add... I also don't think anyone should feel bad about their thoughts, but at the same time, as with anything, if an issue is causing you so much pain and hurt that it's a continual focus or barrier to building greater self-esteem, then yes, one probably should work on their thinking/actions to get away from that negativity. What's the purpose of going through life never working on oneself and always being bitter/upset/disappointed?

Yep. I have learned to work with the hair God blessed me with and work it in my favor. It seemed once I stopped obsessing on having hair down my back, it just started growing.

 

[navsegda]

The point I'm making though is this... why is it that folks feel that black babies texture change is bad? I brought up the baldness thing only to say that what you're born with (or without) has no bearing on what you end up with.

So why is it a problem that black babies' hair gets kinkier?

Why does the texture change have to be a bad thing? It doesn't. I'm not implying that it's ugly or ridiculous or anything else negative of that sort. I just wanted to know why it happened and could this be bigger clues that some of our ancestors may not have always first had the texture that many of us do now. (Refer to what I said about homeobox genes).

Also, there are some things that you are born with or without that DO have a bearing on what you end up with later in life. I'm not talking about medical diseases or anything, I'm talking about traits that can either be independent or dependent on another trait to completely develop. For instance, if you are born with extra androgens floating around, then you may develop more masculine features in puberty than a girl born with normal amounts. Furthermore, if you have a defunct receptor in your brain at birth, then it could also cause you problems later on if ligands cannot properly bind.

 

[JustKiya]

I think this is disingenuous, frankly. It isn't our perception - it's reality and it's influenced by the majority. When you have schools barring natural hairstyles like braids, is that "our" perception? If you have people like my cousin, who has had beautiful, Cassandra Wilson-like locs for most of her adult life and was written up by her "liberal" law firm for "unkempt appearance" and was later told that it was her locs that made them think that she wasn't the "right sort of minority person" to be in their firm, is it "our" perception that our hair is difficult?

When you are denied a gig or looked at like you stink or asked if you can bathe with "those things" in your hair, is it "our" perception that our hair is difficult?

Let's be real. We have to survive in this world, and a lot of it is about conformity. If you choose NOT to conform and you have no problem getting jobs, feeding your family and thriving in life, congrats. But that's not the reality, when in the 21st century you have universities passing strictures against natural styles and you still have people coming to this board and others with stories about how they were clowned, frowned or put down by their white peers and bosses over how their hair grows naturally out of their scalp.

None of that - NONE OF IT - in my opinion, is "our" perception. It's the way things are. And when THAT changes, I'm sure "our" perception about the beauty of our hair WILL change.

And as long as black woman are asking why God CURSED them with the natural texture of that hair - things are NEVER going to change. Until WE send out the message that WE are proud of OUR hair - just as it grows out of our head, OF COURSE people are going to assume there is something wrong with it. Heck, WE believe there is something 'wrong' with our hair.

All of the above examples sound like out and out ignorance - a chance to educate the OTHER about the truth of our hair - that only WE can speak on, because only WE know our hair. Over on NP, they started a petition with the BPD tried to say that natural hairstyles weren't allowed - and the BALTIMORE POLICE DEPARTMENT backed down because a bunch of loud, proud, black people stood up and said - NO. There is NOTHING wrong with our hair the way it comes out of our head, and YOU will not try to implement rules that make it seem like there is.

But as long as we are complaining about how 'other' races don't have to go through all this with their hair (races that don't FIGHT their natural hair nearly as much as we do), and as long as we are 'ashamed' of what grows out of our head naturally, and as long as we are 'questioning' whether our GENETICS have been 'warped' in some way - of COURSE the rest of the world is going to look down on our hair - hell, WE ain't even learned how to stop looking down on it.

Until WE stop looking down on our natural hair, ain't nobody ELSE gonna stop looking down on our natural hair. And I think that's why this thread has so many 'sad' people in it - because as long as someone can even ASK if GOD CURSED THEM with their natural hair......it makes me want to cry that anyone could think that God would be hateful enough to curse an entire race....instead of thinking that God BLESSED us with something that NO other race has.

 

[Bunny77]

Why does the texture change have to be a bad thing? It doesn't. I'm not implying that it's ugly or ridiculous or anything else negative of that sort. I just wanted to know why it happened and could this be bigger clues that some of our ancestors may not have always first had the texture that many of us do now. (Refer to what I said about homeobox genes).

Also, there are some things that you are born with or without that DO have a bearing on what you end up with later in life. I'm not talking about medical diseases or anything, I'm talking about traits that can either be independent or dependent on another trait to completely develop. For instance, if you are born with extra androgens floating around, then you may develop more masculine features in puberty than a girl born with normal amounts. Furthermore, if you have a defunct receptor in your brain at birth, then it could also cause you problems later on if ligands cannot properly bind.

Okay, I see what you're getting at. If texture did indeed change (I have no idea if it did or didn't and I'm not really a scientist-type so I probably won't be researching it), then sure, it would be interesting to understand why.

I guess at the end of the day though, I'd still want people to embrace what they have. And by that, I don't mean that it has to be natural only or whatever... just that they understand what it can and cannot do and accentuate the positive.

 

[Country gal]

God DIDN'T. It has been OUR choice to manipulate our hair to look like something that doesn't GROW out of our heads. It has been our CHOICE to believe that our hair - as it grows - isn't gorgeous, beautiful and wonderful. It's our PERCEPTION that we HAVE to tame/manage/control our hair that makes it difficult. It's the IDEA that the whole world should have straight, glasshiny, flowing and blowing in the wind hair that makes it DIFFICULT.

That ain't God... that's US.

Some folks were a little bothered when I started a thread don't go natural if.... I was stating that natural hair is just not a style choice, it changes your way of thinking. If you have always been relaxed and transition to natural hair, your mind goes through some changes too. I remember the days when my hair had to be straight or else I would put a hat on it. I remember the days I use to hide my hair under a wig or a weave. During my transition stage, I had to deal with folks looking at me like I was crazy. I perserved and stuck to my decision of going natural. It wasn't easy at first learning how to deal with a different texture.

Once you conquer the mind, the rest will follow. Once you have the self confidence, it doesn't matter if your hair is straight, natural, 4z or 3a.

 

[ShaniKeys]

And as long as black woman are asking why God CURSED them with the natural texture of that hair - things are NEVER going to change. Until WE send out the message that WE are proud of OUR hair - just as it grows out of our head, OF COURSE people are going to assume there is something wrong with it. Heck, WE believe there is something 'wrong' with our hair.

All of the above examples sound like out and out ignorance - a chance to educate the OTHER about the truth of our hair - that only WE can speak on, because only WE know our hair. Over on NP, they started a petition with the BPD tried to say that natural hairstyles weren't allowed - and the BALTIMORE POLICE DEPARTMENT backed down because a bunch of loud, proud, black people stood up and said - NO. There is NOTHING wrong with our hair the way it comes out of our head, and YOU will not try to implement rules that make it seem like there is.

But as long as we are complaining about how 'other' races don't have to go through all this with their hair (races that don't FIGHT their natural hair nearly as much as we do), and as long as we are 'ashamed' of what grows out of our head naturally, and as long as we are 'questioning' whether our GENETICS have been 'warped' in some way - of COURSE the rest of the world is going to look down on our hair - hell, WE ain't even learned how to stop looking down on it.

Until WE stop looking down on our natural hair, ain't nobody ELSE gonna stop looking down on our natural hair. And I think that's why this thread has so many 'sad' people in it - because as long as someone can even ASK if GOD CURSED THEM with their natural hair......it makes me want to cry that anyone could think that God would be hateful enough to curse an entire race....instead of thinking that God BLESSED us with something that NO other race has.

I've been hearing a lot of these stories about people not being able to show up with a certain type of hair at their workplace and I must say that is a problem that doesn't accur in Belgium (Europe?). I wear my hair natural and I work part time as a cashier and as a receptionist in an office. I was thinking: maybe it's because white Americans know much more about black hair, they know that you can RELAX it instead of wearing braids and stuff, whilest here, people don't know that much about black hair, so whatever type of hair you show up with, they don't care. All they know is: black ppl got nappy hair! What y'all think 'bout this theory?

 

[Bunny77]

And as long as black woman are asking why God CURSED them with the natural texture of that hair - things are NEVER going to change. Until WE send out the message that WE are proud of OUR hair - just as it grows out of our head, OF COURSE people are going to assume there is something wrong with it. Heck, WE believe there is something 'wrong' with our hair.

All of the above examples sound like out and out ignorance - a chance to educate the OTHER about the truth of our hair - that only WE can speak on, because only WE know our hair. Over on NP, they started a petition with the BPD tried to say that natural hairstyles weren't allowed - and the BALTIMORE POLICE DEPARTMENT backed down because a bunch of loud, proud, black people stood up and said - NO. There is NOTHING wrong with our hair the way it comes out of our head, and YOU will not try to implement rules that make it seem like there is.

But as long as we are complaining about how 'other' races don't have to go through all this with their hair (races that don't FIGHT their natural hair nearly as much as we do), and as long as we are 'ashamed' of what grows out of our head naturally, and as long as we are 'questioning' whether our GENETICS have been 'warped' in some way - of COURSE the rest of the world is going to look down on our hair - hell, WE ain't even learned how to stop looking down on it.

Until WE stop looking down on our natural hair, ain't nobody ELSE gonna stop looking down on our natural hair. And I think that's why this thread has so many 'sad' people in it - because as long as someone can even ASK if GOD CURSED THEM with their natural hair......it makes me want to cry that anyone could think that God would be hateful enough to curse an entire race....instead of thinking that God BLESSED us with something that NO other race has.

And let's not forget that the university that passed policies restricting our hair was a historically BLACK college (Hampton). Whether you agreed with the policy or not (and I'm also not getting into that debate here), the point is, it was a BLACK school that did it... which means we remain a large part of the problem in regards to acceptance.

And with the Baltimore Police, it was high-ranking BLACK folks that signed off on that policy. So what does that tell ya?

 

[JustKiya]

And let's not forget that the university that passed policies restricting our hair was a historically BLACK college (Hampton). Whether you agreed with the policy or not (and I'm also not getting into that debate here), the point is, it was a BLACK school that did it... which means we remain a large part of the problem in regards to acceptance.

And with the Baltimore Police, it was high-ranking BLACK folks that signed off on that policy. So what does that tell ya?

HELLO???!!?? *shakes head*

White people/Asian People/Indian people know JACK all about our hair. In fact, our NATURAL hair intrigues them - *LOL* I've had some of the FUNNIEST conversations about hair with white folx - who were asking innocent like a child questions about my NATURAL hair - because they didn't even REALIZE there was a big thing about natural hair. My white girlfriends are SHOCKED when I show them a hairstyle and say it would be considered unacceptable to other black folks.

BLACK people have the biggest problems with BLACK peoples hair - not white people, not asian people, not Island people, not people of any other race who has 'wavy/curly/straight' hair.

US.

We are the problem - and until we REALLY look into ourselves, and until we start rebuking our children and our elders and our brothers and our sisters and ourselves about how we talk about our hair, we will always and CONTINUE to be the problem. We NEED to stop dismissing, hating on, putting down, calling less than, or thinking that it's so difficult....

I ain't saying there is anything wrong with liking - or wanting straight hair. I'm just saying that there is something MAJORLY wrong about disliking/cursing the hair that we are given, and then claiming that it's 'other people' who don't approve of our hair.

 

[navsegda]

as long as we are 'questioning' whether our GENETICS have been 'warped' in some way - of COURSE the rest of the world is going to look down on our hair - hell, WE ain't even learned how to stop looking down on it.

Until WE stop looking down on our natural hair, ain't nobody ELSE gonna stop looking down on our natural hair. And I think that's why this thread has so many 'sad' people in it - because as long as someone can even ASK if GOD CURSED THEM with their natural hair......it makes me want to cry that anyone could think that God would be hateful enough to curse an entire race....instead of thinking that God BLESSED us with something that NO other race has.

About the genetics, even IF there was a mutation that did in fact change our natural texture that does not mean that our genetics are now corrupted (it could be depending on one's definition of "corruptness" but it also could NOT be). I do know that not all mutations are bad. God could have blessed us with this mutation to make us stronger in the process of natural selection and to increase our environmental fitness somehow at that specific point in time. This does not mean of course that we need this trait for survival now several thousands of years later (as many of us have migrated) but as someone else said, just because you don't need something anymore doesn't mean it will always go away. Sometimes traits skip generations, are suppressed, or are heightened by a variety of factors. They can be either dominant or recessive.

Also, it has been brought up that a few members of other races do have similar textures to 4a/4b hair, for instance. "Our" uniqueness only goes so far (not all black women or men have the "kinky" hair although in some areas the majority just may). And if you are black and you don't have the "kinky" type hair, does this make you any less unique than someone with the kinky hair? NO. This is why the question of genetics (I won't get into race mixing) and evolution is interesting.

However, no one in this thread questioning anything is "sad." No one is perfect and thus no one has the right to look down upon someone else or be insulting just because one may not agree with anyone else's viewpoints. We often like to blame the other races (like the whites) for oppressing elements of black culture when a lot of the time we oppress and hold each other back ourselves by attacking one another and trying to tell one another how we should feel or how we should think about another subject. The thing that makes black people beautiful is that we are all DIVERSE. We have a huge problem accepting others' opinions and choices and it's not just shown in this thread. If a white woman says she hates her hair because it's curly or straight and she wishes she had a different texture, she doesn't get attacked by other members of her race with the whole "race traitor" or betrayal type response. Unless I've misplaced my "how to be black and love yourself as a black woman" card, then people are allowed to like and dislike what they please.

 

[navsegda]

BLACK people have the biggest problems with BLACK peoples hair - not white people, not asian people, not Island people, not people of any other race who has 'wavy/curly/straight' hair.

This is a two-edged sword. All my life I have had to deal with black people, not those of other races, looking down on me for my hair--whether it was natural or whether it was relaxed. You're natural: OMG girl your hair is nappy as hell. You're relaxed: OMG girl you don't appreciate what God gave you and you are a traitor to the black race. How dare you alter your natural texture in such a manner?! My whole premise is that we should all accept each other for the choices we make and just let us embrace or wear our hair any way we want to without fearing backlash.

 

[Bunny77]

However, no one in this thread questioning anything is "sad." No one is perfect and thus no one has the right to look down upon someone else or be insulting just because one may not agree with anyone else's viewpoints. We often like to blame the other races (like the whites) for oppressing elements of black culture when a lot of the time we oppress and hold each other back ourselves by attacking one another and trying to tell one another how we should feel or how we should think about another subject. The thing that makes black people beautiful is that we are all DIVERSE. We have a huge problem accepting others' opinions and choices and it's not just shown in this thread. If a white woman says she hates her hair because it's curly or straight and she wishes she had a different texture, she doesn't get attacked by other members of her race with the whole "race traitor" or betrayal type response. Unless I've misplaced my "how to be black and love yourself as a black woman" card, then people are allowed to like and dislike what they please.

I think the difference though is that many black women who say they prefer straight hair or lighter skin are doing so from a place of pain and hurt... they've been teased/clowned/etc. for being "black and nappy," so the preference for straighter hair doesn't only come from seeing some women walking around with straight hair and saying, "Hey, I like that! That's what I want!"

I don't think anyone (well at least I don't) cares if someone prefers straight hair, but we can't front like that preference in the black community doesn't have some ugly roots. And even if you prefer straight hair until the day you die, you should at least get to a point where you make peace with the hair you have on your head (however you choose to wear it) and accept that even if you do straighten it, it won't "behave" like naturally straight women's hair because it has been altered.

And the "sad" part does not relate to the preference, but the use of the word cursed to describe black hair. I think it's sad that anything about being black, from our hair, to skin tone, to lips, to nose, etc., would be considered a curse from God. I have to admit that I don't love my broad nose and have considered altering it... right now I'm in a "keep it" phase, but next month, I might be in a plastic-surgery research phase... but whatever I do and however I feel, I don't think my nose is a curse. It is what it is.

So... I don't think Kally or anyone else is "sad" for thinking the way they do, but I think the idea of black hair being a curse is "sad" because it comes from a place of pain and hurt.

 

[Bunny77]

This is a two-edged sword. All my life I have had to deal with black people, not those of other races, looking down on me for my hair--whether it was natural or whether it was relaxed. You're natural: OMG girl your hair is nappy as hell. You're relaxed: OMG girl you don't appreciate what God gave you and you are a traitor to the black race. How dare you alter your natural texture in such a manner?! My whole premise is that we should all accept each other for the choices we make and just let us embrace or wear our hair any way we want to without fearing backlash.

You're right that it is a two-edged sword... the ONLY thing that I think can help the perception of black hair is for black people to embrace it.

Looking at what ShaniKeys said, in her country, everyone is nappy, so white folks just have to accept it. Her country is waaaay whiter than the USA and has fewer black folks, yet Belgians don't seem to break down hair into nappy/straight/whatever because they haven't been indoctrinated into the situation we have here.

The reason the Civil Rights Movement worked back in the day was because a majority of black people of all colors stood up and said, "To hell with this segregation BS!" Now, racism will never go away and we still have issues today, but the fact that black people finally said "ENOUGH!" and started dealing with their beliefs of inferiority (to some degree... we still have a long way to go), made white folks have to change their tune as well.

As for "us," I know there are some naturals who talk about relaxed folks and whatever, but I think that one will be clowned much more for being natural or if not clowned, told that we won't be accepted in corporate America for being natural. So that's pressure to stay "straight," which doesn't help any of us as black people in the long run. And with the majority of black women wearing relaxed hair anyway, the few militant nappies who criticized relaxed women don't have the same effect on the black psyche as the folks who look down on nappy hair. (Or even if your hair is relaxed and pressed, but not bone straight, you'll get called out!!!!)

So yeah, long story short... WE need to just let each other be.

 

[JustKiya]

Personally, I don't look down on anyone for preferring straight hair. I'm just saying don't be suprised when your hair is more difficult to deal with (then those who have naturally straight hair) when straight because you are CHANGING IT'S NATURAL STATE.
I don't look down on anyone for preferring wavy hair. I'm just saying don't get upset when your hair doesn't ACT like the hair of NATURALLY wavy folx, and you can't wash and go and still have wavy hair (if that's not what grows out of your head).
I'm not sad that people don't want the hair that God gave them, I'm sad that people think that God cursed them with the hair they have because it's different from the hair of other folx.

 

[navsegda]

Also, I feel that some people think that if you don't like something about yourself that it is a personal affront to your race. So what if you don't like your nose or your eye color or your height or your hair or something else? If you don't like your nose, breasts, or hips and you are black that does NOT mean that you are somehow rejecting blackness, even if the features of the aforementioned may be seen as prevalent "black" characteristics to some people. If you are black and you don't like your hair texture that also does not mean you are rejecting blackness. If you are female and you don't like the pain of childbirth, that does not mean you are rejecting your womanhood in anyway. The list goes on and on. The point is: not all black people have big noses, big breasts, and big hips so to say you don't like any of these is not race specific. Also, not all black people have kinky hair. They just don't. Furthermore, not everyone else of other races has straight hair and even a few have the "kinky" hair that several of us do. Thus, if you say you do not like your hair texture it should not be a personal affront to blackness in any way because it is not 100% unique to all black people in the first place. We need to stop turning this into a race war. If there are in fact people who do not like their natural texture for the sole reason that they are black, then that's different, but I haven't seen anyone in this thread say that.

 

[Enchantmt]

Ladies this has been a very thought provoking thread. Please keep things civil so we can keep the dialogue going.

 

[JustKiya]

I'm missing the race-hatred part - who brought that up? No matter what color you are, if you think that part of who you are NATURALLY is a curse from God...that's seems a bit unhealthy.

I'm just saying that black people have issues with their hair. I'm not saying that they hate themselves because they straighten their hair. I'm not even saying they hate their hair because they don't like what's growing out of their head. I'm just saying that if we expect other people to respect our hair - straight, nappy, wavy, kinky, curly, short, long, dull, shiny and everything else inbetween - WE have to respect our hair first.

 

[Bunny77]

Also, I feel that some people think that if you don't like something about yourself that it is a personal affront to your race. So what if you don't like your nose or your eye color or your height or your hair or something else? If you don't like your nose, breasts, or hips and you are black that does NOT mean that you are somehow rejecting blackness, even if the features of the aforementioned may be seen as prevalent "black" characteristics to some people. If you are black and you don't like your hair texture that also does not mean you are rejecting blackness. If you are female and you don't like the pain of childbirth, that does not mean you are rejecting your womanhood in anyway. The list goes on and on. The point is: not all black people have big noses, big breasts, and big hips so to say you don't like any of these is not race specific. Also, not all black people have kinky hair. They just don't. Furthermore, not everyone else of other races has straight hair and even a few have the "kinky" hair that several of us do. Thus, if you say you do not like your hair texture it should not be a personal affront to blackness in any way because it is not 100% unique to all black people in the first place. We need to stop turning this into a race war. If there are in fact people who do not like their natural texture for the sole reason that they are black, then that's different, but I haven't seen anyone in this thread say that.

Hi again.

Again, I think most of us accept this. But when you say that certain characteristics that are associated with being black are a curse, I think that goes beyond simply disliking something.

Also, would we dislike kinky hair or whatever so much if that was the standard of beauty? Again, I'll call myself out. I REALLY don't like my nose, but I love being black and I like black features. But I wonder if I lived somewhere in which my nose was depicted as the standard of beauty, if I'd still dislike it. I'll never have an answer to that question, of course, but it's interesting to think about.

Another point... I have a somewhat larger booty for my size and I love it. Of course, in the black community, big butts are seen as beautiful, so I'm proud of it. But what if black folks had the "white" asthetic toward big butts and hips and thighs? Would I suddenly dislike my shape?

I think it's too simplistic to ALWAYS say that things are just a preference. It might be only a preference for some people, but I think we'd all be lying to ourselves if we wrote off the preference for straight hair among a majority of black women as just being a mere coincidence.

Again, this is not something that people should be chastized for, but I think we do need to really explore and discuss WHY this is, without dancing around the subject.

So why do most black women in the Western world (and even much of Africa) prefer a hair type that they don't have?

(And I agree with Nappywomyn, no one is saying that anyone here hates their blackness. I don't see that as the issue at all.)

 

[Country gal]

This is a two-edged sword. All my life I have had to deal with black people, not those of other races, looking down on me for my hair--whether it was natural or whether it was relaxed. You're natural: OMG girl your hair is nappy as hell. You're relaxed: OMG girl you don't appreciate what God gave you and you are a traitor to the black race. How dare you alter your natural texture in such a manner?! My whole premise is that we should all accept each other for the choices we make and just let us embrace or wear our hair any way we want to without fearing backlash.

I definitely feel you should do what makes you comfortable. I just think we spend so much time not liking what we do have and underappreciate what we got. If someone wants to be relaxed or natural that is there business. I just hope they are happy with the decision they make.

 

[Enchantmt]

I Love seeing natural hair the thickness and beauty of it and would love to have it. My hair just does not have the thickness and fullness that the Average AA woman has. My have is baby soft and very fine even in its natural state. It is thicker now then when I was a kid, but I have to be extremely carefull about what I do to it, and it seems when I read about others hair care they do as well, this is why I figured it is the hair is hard to maintain.

You've just answered your own question as to why you are having problems growing your hair. IT'S BABY SOFT AND FINE. Even if your hair is kinky, if the strands are fine textured it will tend to break more with out proper handling. If you are using a relaxer, especially if it is too harsh, you could literally disolve your hair or weaken it to the extent that it breaks. When I used to relax I stopped relaxing my nape, simply running the relaxer through after i fininished relaxing the rest of my hair (or sometimes not at all) for this very reason. There are also some ladies here who do not relax their napes as it is finer and prone to breakage or go natural for this reason. When I was relaxing, my hair at the nape would be 2-3 inches in length at the most. Now that I'm natural it is 7-8inches and still growing. High heat will damage your hair faster than ladies with thicker strands as well.

You know what you have, develop a way to work with your hair to help it thrive. Maybe try henna as it coats the hair with a protein that will reinforce your hair. I suggest doing a search or starting a thread asking ladies with fine hair how they care for it to maximize retention.

 

[KeyahGirl]

I don't look down on anyone for preferring wavy hair. I'm just saying don't get upset when your hair doesn't ACT like the hair of NATURALLY wavy folx, and you can't wash and go and still have wavy hair (if that's not what grows out of your head).

I understand this, and to a large extent, I agree with this, but I think you're being too hard on folks. Grass-is-greener syndrome is what it is. Would you tell a person who is upset that a person with rich parents can skate through life without working while this person has to bust her arse day in and day out not to be upset? There's only so much, "Love yourself" that people are going to heed.

I, personally, take responsibility for what I do to my hair. I understand that in chemically straightening it, I am degrading the integrity, causingly possible irreparable damage to my hair and scalp and ensuring that I will be fighting a battle to keep it on my head as long as I continue to relax. I don't blame anyone for its condition or for why it grows out the way it grows out. I prefer another texture and that's on me. I get that. I'm not blaming my mama, God, you, the man in the moon or anyone that I don't have that texture naturally.

But that doesn't mean I can't sympathize with people who are coming from a place of pain about this. We are called minorities for a reason - our voices and perspectives deviate from the majority view. Do you really believe that if every black person in the world wore natural styles that there'd be that big a shift in what is considered beautiful in this society? I personally don't believe so, because our voices are not large enough to affect change. That's just my opinion.

Now, if we voted with our pocketbooks, that's another thing. Black people have enormous buying power. If we turned away from relaxers, weaves, wigs, etc. and embraced our natural kinks, then and only then might you see a perception shift in this country.

I respect your ideas on self-love. But it's a utopian view. As I said in my prior post, we have to live here and accept that there are certain things that are the way they are. Enough self love in the world isn't going to mean diddly squat if Charlie Whiteboy decides he doesn't want a girl with an Afro working at his bank. When perception is such that you're starting to feel it in your pocketbook, then your priorities and your views start to change. One of the most eye-opening TV episodes ever was in "A Different World" when Cree Summer's character straightened her natural hair to go on job interviews and got much more positive response than when her hair was in it's natural state. Again, society is what it is, and until we as a people start backing our self-love up with our dollars, people are still going to suffer from what OTHER people want us to look and act like.

 

[navsegda]

Hi again.

Again, I think most of us accept this. But when you say that certain characteristics that are associated with being black are a curse, I think that goes beyond simply disliking something.

Also, would we dislike kinky hair or whatever so much if that was the standard of beauty? Again, I'll call myself out. I REALLY don't like my nose, but I love being black and I like black features. But I wonder if I lived somewhere in which my nose was depicted as the standard of beauty, if I'd still dislike it. I'll never have an answer to that question, of course, but it's interesting to think about.

I think it's too simplistic to ALWAYS say that things are just a preference. It might be only a preference for some people, but I think we'd all be lying to ourselves if we wrote off the preference for straight hair among a majority of black women as just being a mere coincidence.

Again, this is not something that people should be chastized for, but I think we do need to really explore and discuss WHY this is, without dancing around the subject.

So why do most black women in the Western world (and even much of Africa) prefer a hair type that they don't have?

Heylo. I can't answer for everyone else, but like I said in another thread, if everyone and their mom decided to wear their hair curly now I would still stay straight because it's what I like best on me. I like looking at natural hair on others (like Camellia, Pokahontas, so1913 to name a few, by the way I'm not trying to criticize anyone else by not calling them out) but that doesn't mean I want it for myself.

Also, I've been picked on for a lot of things in life. Just because I've been picked on in the past for being natural or now for being relaxed doesn't mean that I choose one or the other over someone else's opinion. I was also picked on growing up by people because I was smart and liked to read, but that didn't make me want to make my grades slip to try to fit in or stop reading so I could go walk the streets.

Again, I can't speak for everyone else, but I prefer straight hair because I love the feel of it, I love my hair blowing in the wind, I love the ease at which my comb glides through it, I love how it looks on me, I love how it's easier for ME to manage. I also ride horses because I love riding them. I have also been made fun of by several black people for horseback riding because it's thought of as a "white" sport and let's be real, not as many black people do hunter/jumper equitation as whites lol. I'm not going to like something or dislike something based on what other people are doing or aren't doing. Maybe several women in the Western world like straight hair for the same reasons I do, maybe others are influenced by some people's standards of beauty.

 

[Bunny77]

But that doesn't mean I can't sympathize with people who are coming from a place of pain about this. We are called minorities for a reason - our voices and perspectives deviate from the majority view. Do you really believe that if every black person in the world wore natural styles that there'd be that big a shift in what is considered beautiful in this society? I personally don't believe so, because our voices are not large enough to affect change. That's just my opinion.

Actually, I think it would go a long way toward changing the perception that natural hair is ugly. When black people stood up during the Civil Rights Movement to DEMAND that we be accepted as equals, things changed. Now yes, racism is still alive and well, but our voices helped get rid of the whole "Whites Only" form of segregation that kept us out of many jobs, schools and certain neighborhoods. And don't forget, back in the 70s, black folks wore Afros in corporate America all the time (I've seen the pictures.) We said this is how we're gonna be, so you better accept it, and guess what? White folks basically did.

Now we've shifted the paradigm back to "natural hair is bad in the workplace." But there was a whole decade in which it was just fine, and that's when we were JUST getting our feet in the door.

Now, if we voted with our pocketbooks, that's another thing. Black people have enormous buying power. If we turned away from relaxers, weaves, wigs, etc. and embraced our natural kinks, then and only then might you see a perception shift in this country.
Yep, like we did in the '70s.

I respect your ideas on self-love. But it's a utopian view. As I said in my prior post, we have to live here and accept that there are certain things that are the way they are. Enough self love in the world isn't going to mean diddly squat if Charlie Whiteboy decides he doesn't want a girl with an Afro working at his bank. When perception is such that you're starting to feel it in your pocketbook, then your priorities and your views start to change. One of the most eye-opening TV episodes ever was in "A Different World" when Cree Summer's character straightened her natural hair to go on job interviews and got much more positive response than when her hair was in it's natural state. Again, society is what it is, and until we as a people start backing our self-love up with our dollars, people are still going to suffer from what OTHER people want us to look and act like.

You're more likely to see Leroy Blackboy decide this than Charlie Whiteboy... the latest issues that have made the news regarding black hair all involve black companies (Hampton University, Baltimore Police, Black Enterprise Magazine). Six Flags, which is white-owned, drafted its policy with input from BLACK people in regards to black hair. Other natural women I know have said that BLACK co-workers have talked to their white bosses with "concerns" about black hair... so that plants the seed in white folks' minds that there's a problem.

There are enough examples of natural black women thriving in corporate America to make me believe that it's not Charlie Whiteboy that's the problem.

As for a Different World... let's not forget that was a BLACK show featuring a BLACK college, so I'm not surprised they'd have that idea that you need to straighten your hair to get a job. Freddie was portrayed as a flake throughout that show UNTIL she straightened, which I think was an accurate reflection of how BLACK people feel about natural hair, not all of mainstream society.

 

[Aubergold]

ok I'm just gonna say this:

yes our hair is difficult (mostly b/c we can't/don't want to wear it as is, we try to mimic techniques of other groups of people who have a completely different hair type. Whatver that's your choice and no one has to live with it but you so everyone has to do what they want.

BUT: OUR HAIR IS NOT A CURSE. repeat, OUR HAIR IS NOT A CURSE. We are not cursed by God, he loves us. We were not cursed by some white scientists somewhere. We were not cursed by nature. It is what it is, some genotypes are expressed as by-products of evolution (or God) or no reason at all. There are really no use for male nipples in modern ages, yet men still have them. It is what it is.

OUR HAIR IS NOT A CURSE. love ya'll!

 

[Bunny77]

Heylo. I can't answer for everyone else, but like I said in another thread, if everyone and their mom decided to wear their hair curly now I would still stay straight because it's what I like best on me. I like looking at natural hair on others (like Camellia, Pokahontas, so1913 to name a few, by the way I'm not trying to criticize anyone else by not calling them out) but that doesn't mean I want it for myself.

Also, I've been picked on for a lot of things in life. Just because I've been picked on in the past for being natural or now for being relaxed doesn't mean that I choose one or the other over someone else's opinion. I was also picked on growing up by people because I was smart and liked to read, but that didn't make me want to make my grades slip to try to fit in or stop reading so I could go walk the streets.

Again, I can't speak for everyone else, but I prefer straight hair because I love the feel of it, I love my hair blowing in the wind, I love the ease at which my comb glides through it, I love how it looks on me, I love how it's easier for ME to manage. I also ride horses because I love riding them. I have also been made fun of by several black people for horseback riding because it's thought of as a "white" sport and let's be real, not as many black people do hunter/jumper equitation as whites lol. I'm not going to like something or dislike something based on what other people are doing or aren't doing. Maybe several women in the Western world like straight hair for the same reasons I do, maybe others are influenced by some people's standards of beauty.

That's cool... and yeah, I was picked on for the same things, like being smart, getting good grades, reading a lot, doing "white" things like eating sushi (and that's Japanese food... what the heck? ).

Your hair looks good as well. For some people, it is just hair and you sound like someone secure in herself and her choices, which is all good.

I think it's hard for most women to get that way and I do think there's a stigma many black women have about their hair. I think it's a thing where we all need to be truly honest with ourselves about our choices (whatever they are) and not just spout off cliches without why we do whatever we do!

(don't know if that made sense!)

 

[Enchantmt]

I think this is disingenuous, frankly. It isn't our perception - it's reality and it's influenced by the majority. When you have schools barring natural hairstyles like braids, is that "our" perception? If you have people like my cousin, who has had beautiful, Cassandra Wilson-like locs for most of her adult life and was written up by her "liberal" law firm for "unkempt appearance" and was later told that it was her locs that made them think that she wasn't the "right sort of minority person" to be in their firm, is it "our" perception that our hair is difficult?

When you are denied a gig or looked at like you stink or asked if you can bathe with "those things" in your hair, is it "our" perception that our hair is difficult?

Let's be real. We have to survive in this world, and a lot of it is about conformity. If you choose NOT to conform and you have no problem getting jobs, feeding your family and thriving in life, congrats. But that's not the reality, when in the 21st century you have universities passing strictures against natural styles and you still have people coming to this board and others with stories about how they were clowned, frowned or put down by their white peers and bosses over how their hair grows naturally out of their scalp.

None of that - NONE OF IT - in my opinion, is "our" perception. It's the way things are. And when THAT changes, I'm sure "our" perception about the beauty of our hair WILL change.

I bascially agree with what you are saying, but our perception was changed due to the influence by the majority. It's not the reality of our hair, its beauty or lack of is still someones personal perception. (eye of the beholder and whatnot).

When we were brought forcibly here, we didnt have the tools necessary to care for our hair. There was breakage, damage, fungus, scalp sores and everything to contend with from the inablity to properly care for our hair. Trying to survive I'm sure took priority over a hairstyle. There were laws stating we had to cover our hair. That it couldnt be seen in public. Use of relaxers and pressing combs made us "socially acceptable". We need to know that is part of our history and part of why folx react so strongly to relaxed vs natural and our hair in general. Even if these thoughts are not verbally expressed, the social stigma is still there. We've had over 300 years of social conditioning with no memory of our natural beauty before coming to this country. The beauty standard is learned. I've mentioned it before, but get the sisterlocks book. It has a lot of info about how our past is influencing our present.

Some of us are taking steps to reeducate ourselves. We see women here everyday, who even if they arent or will never take the step to becoming natural, have learned to not hate their hair texture by learning to stretch their relaxers. They have discovered that we have been told lies, that our texture is not "bad". They dont run and hide at the first sign of their "ugly newgrowth" and even if they feel its not right for them, can at least admire the beauty of natural hair on another woman. It's ok to like straight hair. I love straight hair. One day I may go back to it. Wanting to be rid of the chemicals has been what has been keeping me on the natural track.

Not everyone is at the same place. We still have social images that tell us to be nappy is to be ugly. Rules that try to crop up, such as restrictions on natural styles that relate that something "isnt right" with our hair in its natural state. So even with our own personal revelations we still have some mental work to do. If you are open to it, the change will come, even if it doesnt come all at once.

 

[JustKiya]

*smiles & sighs*

I guess that I was blessed in that I grew up deviant, so being different as an adult is normal to me. I don't 'fit' in to popular culture in many ways, and I thank my upbringing on a daily basis for the blessing that allows me to be happy with who I am and what I have - rather than chasing after something else because some random stranger who wants to shape my worldview says it's so.

Perhaps the reasons that I don't see that my views on selflove are utopian because it's how I love myself. I started dreadlocs - while working for a huge multimillion dollar corporation and traveling overseas to be the face of that corporation. I started wearing natural hair at an all black college where I was the poor girl working a job and on a scholarship while all the 'rich' girls skated through on daddy's money. I cut all my hair off and dyed it bright red at another multimillion dollar corporation.
I don't accept that 'things are the way they are' and I have no voice, no option, no choice to change things into how they SHOULD be. If Charlie Whiteboy doesn't want be working at his bank and has the nerve to say that my hair is why, Charlie Whiteboy will be meeting Mr. Lawyer, as well as a vocal campaign letting every black person who walks through that door knowing just how Charlie feels about black people.

I REFUSE to accept that because things ARE they way that they are - I shouldn't fight, scream, beg, convince, protest and boycott until they are right. And each time WE lay down and say 'Oh, maybe Mr. Whiteboy right, and my hair ISN'T acceptable' instead of standing up and saying 'Mr. Whiteboy you are WRONG because my hair is just fine - and me and all 200 of your other black customers agree' then yes, society will be as it is.

The problem is - it's usually Mr Tyrone Blackman telling me (or telling Mr Charlie) that there is something wrong with my hair.....